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susano
08-18-2013, 06:18 PM
The following is from a poster called "AliceTheKurious", an Egyptian woman. I used to post at this forum but left because most of them are internationalist progressives and the site owner is a gatekeeper. Alice was always someone I admired and is an incredible writer (as far I know, she does not write professionally, but she should). Her perspectives on the middle east were like nothing I'd been able to read elsewhere. When TSHTF in fan in Egypt, I went back there to see if Alice had checked in (she's sort of a sporadic poster) and she has. What she has to say is something anyone interested in the conflict needs to read. I'll give a snip of her first post but please click the link to see photos, video, and her subsequent posts:



"Don't believe what you see on the news. The BBC, CNN, France24, CBC, and newspapers like The Guardian, the Independent, USA Today and the Washington Post are marching in lockstep as they propagate the exact same lies, which have nothing to do with the reality we are living. The Egyptian people are determined as never before: Christian and Muslim, young and old, military, police, judges, rich and poor, to defend their nation against the gang of terrorists and their brainwashed automatons who have been doing everything possible to destroy it. With the collusion of the Western media and Western governments and Western public relations firms, the Muslim Brothers have been exporting a totally false narrative of victimization that has nothing whatsoever to do with the reality. I give you my word that they will lose, because Egypt is united and strong, with, for the first time in more than 40 years, a leadership that is worthy of our great people."




I want to apologize in advance; I should have read what others have posted here in order to respond, but I can't. I think I will go mad if I have to look at any more lies right now. I did note that some articles posted here earlier were written by members of the so-called "Revolutionary Socialists"; I figured them for agents provocateurs linked to the Brotherhood more than a year and a half ago. They, like the Brotherhood itself, have played a very destructive role in the very revolution they claim to speak for. Their "activism" consists primarily in acting as agents of disinformation directed at Western Leftist circles and especially in the early months of 2011, "bait" for young and naive Egyptian Leftists, thousands of whom they incited into stupid and pointless vandalism against public property, although now they have been largely discredited locally. Now, their job seems to be mainly to give Leftist "street creds" in English publications to the Islamists' false narrative of victimization, which also happens to be the official US line.

What the Western media is describing as "protests" and "sit-ins" were armed terrorist camps set up in the middle of two heavily-populated residential neighborhoods. I have relatives who live in Nasr City, quite close to the largest of these camps. They lived as virtual prisoners inside their apartment for weeks, unable to sleep from the constant noise of loudspeakers blaring all night the Brotherhood's incitement against Christians and against the more than 30 million Egyptian people who revolted against the fascist rule of the Brotherhood, whom the speakers described as "infidels" who deserve to be slaughtered. hundreds of black al-Qaeda flags were waved by these lovely advocates of democracy; one Islamist preacher approved, and described the Egyptian national flag as the flag of the "infidels".

On July 29, jubilant applause greeted the announcement that experienced "fighters" from al-Qaeda and Jamaa' Islamiya (the group that assassinated Anwar Sadat) had joined the camp, and would participate in logistics for its defense. The camp was surrounded by barricades made of sand-bags and rocks, for which the "protesters" broke up the sidewalks.

The stench from the makeshift toilets set up to serve the 50,000 or so residents of the camps was overwhelming, especially in the Egyptian summer heat. That's not counting the piles of rotting garbage and the dozens of decomposing corpses that were unearthed after the camp was broken up. My friend and her husband and children were unable to go out even to buy food or go to work, because of the Brothers' harassment of the residents, including full body searches. Grocery stores refused to deliver, for the same reason, and because their delivery-men were frequently robbed and/or beaten. They were afraid to leave their apartment, fearing that it would be broken into and taken over by the "demonstrators", as so many others were.

As the number of people tortured by the Brotherhood inside their camps, some with their fingers cut off, continued to rise, and as eye-witness reports and photos and videos continued to show large quantities of weapons being smuggled into the camps, Western human rights groups and the Western media and Western government officials continued to describe these camps as peaceful sit-ins, and those who ran them as 'protesters'. Many of the victims were desperately poor people who were attracted to the camps by promises of free food and at least LE 200 per day (just under $30) or up to LE 1000 per day, in exchange for staying there and participating in the chants, but who were savagely beaten and sometimes mutilated when they tried to leave. Others were Egyptian journalists, who tried to document what was going on inside, or were suspected of being journalists; the Brotherhood allowed only the unfailingly sympathetic Western journalists, who were taken around on carefully guided tours and allowed to speak with only designated spokespersons, and the Brotherhood-staffed Al-Jazeera Direct Egypt, the only network whose cameras and microphones were permitted to move freely around the camp.

Every single day, our soldiers and police were being murdered in Sinai by the battle-hardened terrorists whom Morsy and the Brotherhood had brought into the country from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan and elsewhere. In most cases, they ambushed off-duty troops heading home on leave, or used road-side explosives. Mohamed Beltagy, a very prominent member of the Brotherhood, explicitly said that these attacks would cease only when Morsy was returned to power:

(video @ link)

Meanwhile, the Brothers were busy setting the stage for a "massacre" -- posting photos of dead and mutilated bodies from Syria and Iraq, labeling them as though the victims were killed by Egyptian police, and even staging fake instances of police brutality (complete with fake blood) for photographs:

(video @ link)

Egyptians were especially outraged by the parades staged by the Brotherhood, of children (some as young as 4 years old) taken from Brotherhood-run orphanages, wrapped in funeral shrouds and bearing signs that said, "I will be a martyr for Islam":

(pics @ link)

Egyptians were especially outraged by the parades staged by the Brotherhood, of children (some as young as 4 years old) taken from Brotherhood-run orphanages, wrapped in funeral shrouds and bearing signs that said, "I will be a martyr for Islam":

(pics @ link)

One of my acquaintances runs a center for street children; one day, a Muslim Brother visited her and offered to take as many children as possible to what he described as a "summer camp", where they would be fed and clothed and taught karate, etc. She insisted on knowing exactly where this "camp" is, and he finally told her that it was the Brotherhood so-called "sit-in" in Nasr City. Needless to say, she refused, then contacted other centers for street children and orphanages, as well as the media, to warn others.

It took more than a month of atrocities for Amnesty International to issue this shamefully understated report, which did not begin to describe the reality of what was happening inside those terrorist camps:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/pre ... 2013-08-02

Meanwhile, people continued to disappear; some survivors, bearing signs of severe torture, were later found alive. They described horrific abuse of others, including women, that they had witnessed. Nearly 30 corpses, some with fingers cut off or other signs of torture, were only discovered after police dispersed the camp, wrapped in shrouds and hidden under the main stage in the camp in Nasr City:

(video @ link)

or in the nearby mosque that the Brotherhood had occupied and burned to the ground as they retreated, in order to destroy evidence of their crimes.

The Brotherhood periodically sent out groups of marchers, armed with clubs, knives, shot-guns and even swords; as they went, they smashed cars, windows, and beat anybody who didn't express full support for them.

Sometimes, they would put their kidnapped victims in sacks, and dumped them alive, at night on major roads. This was filmed around three weeks ago on 6th of October Bridge, one of the major bridges inside Cairo:

(video @ link)

Much, much more here:

Re: Live: Al Jazeera coverage of Egypt’s growing revolution
Postby AlicetheKurious » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:46 am

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31041&start=1755

FrankRep
08-18-2013, 06:27 PM
Meanwhile, the Brothers were busy setting the stage for a "massacre" -- posting photos of dead and mutilated bodies from Syria and Iraq, labeling them as though the victims were killed by Egyptian police, and even staging fake instances of police brutality (complete with fake blood) for photographs:


This paragraph reminded me of this video:


Video Shows Fake Muslim Brotherhood "Protesters" Staging Deaths & Injuries (http://www.infowars.com/video-shows-fake-muslim-brotherhood-protesters-staging-deaths-injuries/)


Infowars.com
August 17, 2013



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpmFIWm1dWw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpmFIWm1dWw


A video shows Muslim Brotherhood protesters posing for a staged photo-op in which deaths and injuries are hoaxed.

This is not to ignore the fact that many people have been killed by the Egyptian military junta.

susano
08-18-2013, 06:36 PM
I don't believe that Alice would describe the current government a "junta". If you read her posts you will understand why. It's very much a life or death (for Egypt and Egyptians) situation. They are well on their way to becoming another Syria if the NWO has it's way. Horrifying.

CPUd
08-18-2013, 06:37 PM
McCain: U.S. has ‘no credibility’ in Egypt

(CNN) – It’s high time for the United States to cut off its $1.3 billion in aid to Egypt as the military regime cracks down violently on protesters, Sen. John McCain argued Sunday.

The Arizona Republican added the U.S. has lost its credibility in the region after failing to follow its own law that requires suspending aid to states overtaken by a military coup–though the U.S. has not officially described the recent regime change in Egypt as a coup.

...


As for why McCain and others supported the aid in the Senate vote last month, McCain said he wanted to give the military regime in Egypt an opportunity to enact a democratic government. He and other senators also argued that a cutoff of aid to Egypt would ultimately hurt Israel.

Asked Sunday if he still believes a suspension would indirectly damage the Jewish state, McCain said there would be a “risk.”

“But I also would point out that the Mubarak regime and this regime is stoking anti-Americanism to a large degree, and anti-Israel rhetoric is very high,” he said. “I believe that Israel can defend itself, although it may be of some cost to them, but look at the cost of American credibility."

McCain said the Obama administration’s handling of Egypt is just one sign of what he described as the president’s lack of foreign policy in the Middle East.

"There is no policy, and there is no strategy. And therefore, we react and we react poorly,” he said.


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/18/mccain-u-s-has-no-credibility-in-egypt

Petar
08-18-2013, 06:58 PM
I've been rooting for the military against the Muslim Brotherhood, but of course it would be nice if the US government would just completely butt out.

green73
08-18-2013, 07:03 PM
I've been rooting for the military against the Muslim Brotherhood

You and King Abdullah.

susano
08-18-2013, 07:03 PM
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/18/mccain-u-s-has-no-credibility-in-egypt

Of course, McCain and Graham were just sent over there, by Obama, and they also just went to to Turkey where they met with terrorists waging war on Syria. McCain & Graham are all up with the Muslim Brotherhood. As Alice points out, further ahead in the link I gave, there were three strong Arab armies: Iraq, Syria and Egypt. Iraq was destroyed and Syria and Egypt are under attack. It is to the benefit of the NWO and Israel to see those secular nations and their militaries collapse. That would leave Israel and NATO (who may as well be one) the only military powers of substance in the region, not counting Iran who is the next target. I would also point out that the Muslim Brotherhood is aligned with Hamas and Israel created Hamas. So much intrigue and many false perceptions.

There's also a rumor that the Obama admin has funneled billions to the MB in Egypt, which I don't doubt. I haven't researched it yet but ran across this interesting article about McCain's and & Graham's trip:

NEW YORK – The son of a jailed Muslim Brotherhood leader in Egypt is claiming his father has evidence that will land President Obama in prison.

The claim came as the Obama administration, with the assistance of Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., and the open involvement of the No. 2 man at the U.S. State Department, made a concerted effort to see Muslim Brotherhood leaders in Egypt released.

In an interview with the News Agency Anatolia in Turkey, Saad Al-Shater, the son of imprisoned Muslim Brotherhood leader Khairat Al-Shater, said his father “had in his hand” evidence that will put Obama in prison.

In a thinly veiled threat, Saad Al-Shater said a U.S. delegation was sent to Cairo by Obama to press for the release of the imprisoned Muslim Brotherhood leaders, including his father to prevent the release of explosive information.

Cont., http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/muslim-brotherhood-claim-weve-got-goods-on-obama/#eqyx393m8HRzCTBe.99

susano
08-18-2013, 07:07 PM
You and King Abdullah.

Of Jordan?

Things are not what they seem. The Saudis just made some statement in support of the Egyptian govt. IMO, that's for public consumption. The Gulf state monarchies back the MB and the MB and associated terrorists have used Jordan as one of their staging grounds.

Petar
08-18-2013, 07:07 PM
You and King Abdullah.

If the Egyptian military forms a responsible secular state, then that will probably threaten King Abdullah more than anything.

susano
08-18-2013, 07:10 PM
Again, I urge everyone to open the link in my OP and read Alice's posts. For whatever reason, I know that most readers don't open the links. Anyway, here's something else she wrote that is very interesting (on more than one level as I feel it applies to progressives in this country, as the Brotherhood in her own):


The Muslim Brotherhood is a fascinating organization, with many faces. It's an extremely wealthy, extremely secretive (at the higher levels) transnational criminal organization, with financial headquarters in Geneva, Switzerland and its organizational headquarters almost certainly in London, Great Britain, but with businesses and tentacles all over Europe and the Middle East. Its membership is divided into very distinct degrees, very similar to Masonism. It is fed from the bottom up, via a vast network of "charitable" organizations, including religious schools, medical clinics and village mosques. At the very bottom of the pyramid is the category of "moheb", or supporter of the Brotherhood; for the most part, these are the wretched of the earth, those who suffer from both extreme poverty and extreme ignorance. With rare exceptions, they are recruited from impoverished rural areas where the central state's authority is almost non-existent and where the cultural wealth of the urban centers might as well be in another universe. The Muslim Brotherhood provides them with free clinics and small but regular family allowances in exchange for access to the children, whom they indoctrinate via religious lessons into the Muslim Brotherhood cult (which has nothing to do with Islam, other than on the most superficial level, and indeed is deeply hostile to Islam, along with all other religions, including Christianity and Judaism).

From the age of 14 or so, these children undergo a filtering process; they are carefully observed and tested via exercises and experiments, to nurture certain character traits and suppress others. This is done in the schools themselves (over the past 40 years, the Brotherhood has also been relentless in its infiltration of government schools via Brotherhood teachers), and also in the summer camps and field trips organized for children by the Brotherhood. The purpose is to produce an army of foot soldiers and pawns who have been made literally incapable of thinking for themselves, whose mental surrender to the Brotherhood is complete and inviolable. They will believe whatever their leadership tells them to believe, no matter how much evidence contradicts this belief; they will obey without question whatever orders they are given. In the Brotherhood, this is called the principle of "sam' we ta'a" (hear and obey), one of the most important criteria for membership in the Brotherhood. Any deviation results in immediate punishment, including ostracism, which is a lot worse than it sounds. These people have been made emotionally, financially, socially and intellectually dependent on the Brotherhood. Once they are recruited as children, they are told what to think, what to say, who their friends can be, even what they are allowed to tell their parents and what must be kept secret. In exchange, they are taken care of, on every level. They are taught by the Brotherhood, and kept busy and entertained in Brotherhood activities. Their friends are from the Brotherhood, they can only watch television shows and channels approved by the Brotherhood, they shop only in Brotherhood-owned stores and pray only in Brotherhood-controlled mosques; when they grow up, they are employed by Brotherhood-owned or controlled businesses and institutions, and a wife or husband is found for them by the Brotherhood. Such people are not necessarily actual members of the Brotherhood, but they are its minions, the major pool from which low-level members are recruited, and their loyalty to the Brotherhood is absolute.

bolil
08-18-2013, 07:12 PM
/\ sounds like any other government.

DrHendricks
08-18-2013, 07:28 PM
This is an amazing account of what's actually going on in Egypt. We should spread this post far and wide! Forums, reddits, facebook!

twomp
08-18-2013, 07:57 PM
That would explain why Lindsey Graham and John McCain have been calling on the release of Morsy. Sigh lets get our money out of there and let the Egyptian people sort it out. I don't know who is the good guy in all this. On one side we have the Muslim Brotherhood and the alternative is a country where the military just took over.

bolil
08-18-2013, 07:58 PM
That would explain why Lindsey Graham and John McCain have been calling on the release of Morsy. Sigh lets get our money out of there and let the Egyptian people sort it out. I don't know who is the good guy in all this. On one side we have the Muslim Brotherhood and the alternative is a country where the military just took over.

Yeah, you guys should take your tanks back too.

angelatc
08-18-2013, 07:58 PM
Oh wow. The pictures....

susano
08-18-2013, 07:59 PM
This is an amazing account of what's actually going on in Egypt. We should spread this post far and wide! Forums, reddits, facebook!


Exactly.

PSYOP
08-19-2013, 04:55 AM
This is interesting -- but this guy is acting like NO ONE is dying... :rolleyes:

BlackTerrel
08-19-2013, 07:29 PM
This is one woman's opinion. It also matches what most of my Egyptian (mainly Coptic) friends here say: they HATE the Muslim brotherhood.

But this is still one woman's opinion. It would be like if you took the post of an American on a forum here and said "listen to this guy he is from America he really knows what's going on". Except you will find 300 different Americans and 300 different views.

This woman obviously hates the Muslim brotherhood. So do I. There are also tens of millions of Egyptians who love the Muslim brotherhood.

This is Ron Paul on the subject:


http://www.infowars.com/us-egypt-policies-dont-pass-the-laugh-test/

A military coup in Egypt yesterday resulted in the removal and imprisonment of the elected president, Mohamed Morsi, a closure of media outlets sympathetic to him, the house arrest of his advisors, and the suspension of the constitution. The military that overthrew Morsi is the main recipient of the $1.3 billion yearly US aid package to Egypt. You could say that the US “owns” the Egyptian military that just overthrew its democratically-elected leader.

Well, Egypt had a democratically-elected government, but it was overthrown by the US-funded Egyptian military!

susano
08-20-2013, 12:42 AM
If you read Alice's posts you will find a litany of Morsi's crimes against the Egyptian people. He stacked every office with Brotherhood goons, they wrote an Islamist constitution, he suspended their supreme court from it's lawful role, and he flooded Sinai with Brotherhood terrorists.

Ron Paul isn't God. Sometimes he's wrong and he's wrong about this. Morsi violated his office, the Egyptian people, and his promises, and the Egyptian people threw his ass out.

If Egypt doesn't handle this problem then Egypt will be the next Syria. The Brotherhood has vowed to burn Egypt down and they've sure set about exactly that. Around 50 Coptic churches, so far, and scores of other buildings. Kidnapping, murder, torture and rape. This is not a political constituency. If Ron Paul looked more deeply into the situation, as I have, I would hope that he would change his mind.

susano
08-20-2013, 12:47 AM
Another casualty in all of this, cultural heritage:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/17/article-2396100-1B56FAA7000005DC-875_634x422.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/17/article-2396100-1B56FB7F000005DC-880_634x422.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396100/Egypt-Looters-ransack-Egyptian-antiques-museum-snatch-priceless-artefacts.html

Natural Citizen
08-20-2013, 01:03 AM
I wonder if the "looter...ers " were wearing khakis and polo shirts? :rolleyes: This is unfortunate and bugs me more than anything about all of the bad energy throughout the planet. It's happened all along the timeline of this war on terror...some place or another. Never fails.

susano
08-20-2013, 01:20 AM
Alice also mentioned that investigations in Egypt have revealed that the Obama admin gave 50 million to Morsi's political campaign. I haven't checked out that claim and I'm not a member at Rigorous Intuition so I can't ask her. Obviously that wouldn't be reported here, if accurate. Also, hated US ambassador, Ann Patterson, called a meeting with the Coptic pope and told him to tell Christians to stay out of anti Morsi demonstrations. He refused, of course.

angelatc
08-20-2013, 01:20 AM
Alice also mentioned that investigations in Egypt have revealed that the Obama admin gave 50 million to Morsi's political campaign. I haven't checked out that claim and I'm not a member at Rigorous Intuition so I can't ask her. Obviously that wouldn't be reported here, if accurate. Also, hated US ambassador, Ann Patterson, called a meeting with the Coptic pope and told him to tell Christians to stay out of anti Morsi demonstrations. He refused, of course.

She's been recalled over that, I heard.

susano
08-20-2013, 01:25 AM
She's been recalled over that, I heard.

Recalled because she's so hated. The Egyptian people demanded it. The new guy they're floating is no better. He was an official in Iraq and ambassador to Syria. Do the math.

angelatc
08-20-2013, 01:28 AM
Recalled because she's so hated. The Egyptian people demanded it. The new guy they're floating is no better. He was an official in Iraq and ambassador to Syria. Do the math.

They're all self-important elite asses, IMHO.

enhanced_deficit
08-20-2013, 01:30 AM
This paragraph reminded me of this video:


Video Shows Fake Muslim Brotherhood "Protesters" Staging Deaths & Injuries (http://www.infowars.com/video-shows-fake-muslim-brotherhood-protesters-staging-deaths-injuries/)


Infowars.com
August 17, 2013



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpmFIWm1dWw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpmFIWm1dWw

.

Wow, so someone help which of following news are real, which are fake?


http://www.globalpost.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/gp3_single_col/photos/2013-August/162996282.jpg
http://lonelyconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Obama-Kerry.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=john+kerry+obama&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=xo349DaHNpQ_aM&tbnid=pXfx9mzq0l3rNM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Flonelyconservative.com%2F2012%2F1 2%2Fobama-nominating-john-kerry-to-be-secretary-of-state%2F&ei=0OMPUqjHDKugyAHy3IEo&bvm=bv.50768961,d.b2I&psig=AFQjCNF-QTmZ4uQLmPzruf9qiatTWCbIIg&ust=1376859454447569)

Obama administation approves $1.3 billion in military aid for Egypt (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/03/1220994/-Obama-administation-approves-1-3-billion-in-military-aid-for-Egypt)
Jul 3, 2013 - I find it very disappointing that the Obama administration has supported the Egyptian military with billions of dollars in aid. Less than two months ...


Egypt Military Aid to Be Paid by U.S. for Strategic Goals - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-23/egypt-military-aid-to-be-paid-by-u-s-for-strategic-goals.html)
www.bloomberg.com/.../egypt-military-aid-to-be-paid-by-u-s-for-strateg...‎ (http://www.bloomberg.com/.../egypt-military-aid-to-be-paid-by-u-s-for-strateg...%E2%80%8E)

August 14, 2013
Massacre Of Islamists By Egyptian Military Likely Strategic (http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/haroonmoghul/7252/massacre_of_islamists_by_egyptian_military_likely_ strategic/)

Israel relying on Egyptian army to counter Islamists
Published July 05, 2013
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/07/05/israel-relying-on-egyptian-army-to-counter-islamists/


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?424522-Near-700-killed-in-massacre-of-protesters-by-US-funded-Egyptian-Military-dictatorship&



Moment unarmed protester confronting Egyptian tank is 'hit by gunfire' as 91 die on day of rage and vigilantes clash with police



YouTube clip was apparently shot Friday in Ismailia, northeastern Egypt
Cell phone video shot from different angle also captured confrontation between unarmed protesters and army forces

Over 90 people dead across Egypt after Friday's protests
Morsi supporters and vigilante residents exchanged fire in Cairo
Thousands of Brotherhood supporters converged on Ramses Square
Egyptian army soldiers pictured around capital on armored vehicles
Official death toll from Wednesday's massacre in Cairo come to 638



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/17/article-0-1B556080000005DC-827_306x423.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/17/article-0-1B55609C000005DC-665_634x498.jpg Aftermath: The alleged shooting victim is seen rolling over on the ground next to another man







Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396035/Moment-unarmed-protester-confronting-Egyptian-tank-hit-gunfire-91-die-day-rage-vigilantes-clash-police.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396035/Moment-unarmed-protester-confronting-Egyptian-tank-hit-gunfire-91-die-day-rage-vigilantes-clash-police.html#ixzz2cIBB5TjV)

susano
08-20-2013, 01:35 AM
http://www.ironicsurrealism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/obama-and-patterson-support-terrorism-in-egypt.jpg
http://www.ironicsurrealism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/2013-635081988412615119-261.jpg
http://www.ironicsurrealism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/egypt-june-30-2013-kick-bitch-ann-patterson-obama-ambassador-out-of-egypt.jpg

Endorsing Sharia: Obama’s Egyptian Ambassador Ann Patterson To Coptic Christians: ‘Do Not Protest Against Morsi’
http://www.ironicsurrealism.com/2013/07/01/obamas-egyptian-ambassador-to-coptic-christians-do-not-protest-against-morsi-backlash-go-to-hell-liars-shut-up-mind-your-own-business/

susano
08-20-2013, 01:37 AM
They're all self-important elite asses, IMHO.

Agreed but in his case, where he went, secular states fell under attack from Islamic terrorists. No way the Egyptians will allow him there.

BlackTerrel
08-21-2013, 01:25 PM
If you read Alice's posts you will find a litany of Morsi's crimes against the Egyptian people. He stacked every office with Brotherhood goons, they wrote an Islamist constitution, he suspended their supreme court from it's lawful role, and he flooded Sinai with Brotherhood terrorists.

Ron Paul isn't God. Sometimes he's wrong and he's wrong about this. Morsi violated his office, the Egyptian people, and his promises, and the Egyptian people threw his ass out.

If Egypt doesn't handle this problem then Egypt will be the next Syria. The Brotherhood has vowed to burn Egypt down and they've sure set about exactly that. Around 50 Coptic churches, so far, and scores of other buildings. Kidnapping, murder, torture and rape. This is not a political constituency. If Ron Paul looked more deeply into the situation, as I have, I would hope that he would change his mind.

Morsi is a scumbag villian who wants to institute Sharia, murder those who oppose him, and consolidate power.

Doesn't mean he didn't win a democratic election and about half of Egyptians still support him. That is Ron Paul's point. You can't ignore that tens of millions of Egyptians still have his back. Which is why I don't see how this ends well and why we need to get the fuck out of there. We lose either way.

BlackTerrel
08-21-2013, 01:29 PM
Alice also mentioned that investigations in Egypt have revealed that the Obama admin gave 50 million to Morsi's political campaign. I haven't checked out that claim and I'm not a member at Rigorous Intuition so I can't ask her. Obviously that wouldn't be reported here, if accurate. Also, hated US ambassador, Ann Patterson, called a meeting with the Coptic pope and told him to tell Christians to stay out of anti Morsi demonstrations. He refused, of course.

That Obama piece sounds like propoganda to be honest. The one thing all Egyptians agree on is they hate the US so an attack on the other side is to say "hey the US loves you".

Regarding Ann Patterson and the Coptic Pope I will add that Christians are in a very delicate spot over there. I have Christian Coptic friends here and they all support the military and they all oppose the Muslim Brotherhood. That said conspiracy theories in Egypt about Christians are very strong and a big conspiracy among the Muslim Brotherhood supporters is that taking down the Brotherhood is a Christian conspiracy.

I can't fully explain it but from what I hear it sounds like a lot of the Jewish conspiracy theories you can find here in this country. The difference is here people just post about it on the internet and there they attack and kill people and burn down Churches.

Given the prevalence of this theory telling Christians to take a back seat so they can't be blamed is understandable in some ways.

Either way this turns out I feel Christians will be made a scape goat. We've seen this throughout history - any time there is strife uniting the majority against a minority is beneficial for the people in charge.

BenIsForRon
08-21-2013, 03:05 PM
The military delegitamized itself the moment it started mowing down non-violent protestors. Simply unacceptable.

BlackTerrel
08-22-2013, 09:09 PM
The military delegitamized itself the moment it started mowing down non-violent protestors. Simply unacceptable.

There's no one really to support over there.

The choices are secular dictatorship or sharia law.

The smart move for the US is to stay the fuck out of it. Of course we're too arrogant and stupid to do that.

susano
08-22-2013, 09:59 PM
The military delegitamized itself the moment it started mowing down non-violent protestors. Simply unacceptable.

You should read the link. "Non violent protestors", "unarmed protestors", is the MSM interventionist version. In the two 'camps', people were given a deadline to clear out and most did. That left behind the terrorists who were heavily armed and had stacks of dead and tortured bodies of the people they kidnapped and forced to take part in the 'protests'. Not saying what's going on behalf of the Egyptian army isn't violent and harsh - it is - but there is MUCH more to this, including Brotherhood terrorists beating, stabbing, shooting and raping Egyptian citizens, causing the greater population to circulate forms giving al Sisi power of attorney to act on their behalf and go after the terrorists.

BlackTerrel
08-24-2013, 05:33 PM
You should read the link. "Non violent protestors", "unarmed protestors", is the MSM interventionist version. In the two 'camps', people were given a deadline to clear out and most did. That left behind the terrorists who were heavily armed and had stacks of dead and tortured bodies of the people they kidnapped and forced to take part in the 'protests'. Not saying what's going on behalf of the Egyptian army isn't violent and harsh - it is - but there is MUCH more to this, including Brotherhood terrorists beating, stabbing, shooting and raping Egyptian citizens, causing the greater population to circulate forms giving al Sisi power of attorney to act on their behalf and go after the terrorists.

I think the point is there isn't a clear "good guy" and "bad guy". As it true in most conflicts.

Why is why the smartest thing for the US to do is let it be and mind our own business.

susano
08-24-2013, 11:14 PM
I think the point is there isn't a clear "good guy" and "bad guy". As it true in most conflicts.

Why is why the smartest thing for the US to do is let it be and mind our own business.

Who's advocating US involvement besides the MSM carrying on about "unarmed protestors"?

It's a war and it's nasty but the Egyptian government has no choice if they don't want to end up like Syria.

BlackTerrel
08-25-2013, 01:24 PM
Who's advocating US involvement besides the MSM carrying on about "unarmed protestors"?

It's a war and it's nasty but the Egyptian government has no choice if they don't want to end up like Syria.

What if the majority of Egyptians support the Muslim Brotherhood? What do they do then?

I don't have an answer to be honest. I think this is a lose lose situation and I know from Egyptians who live here in California how oppressive the Muslim Brotherhood is.

But I also agree with Ron Paul that the MB won a free election with over 50% of the vote. And I doubt public opinion has changed that much in just a few months.

What do you do if the majority of the populace votes for the oppressive regime?