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ZENemy
08-15-2013, 03:22 PM
Afternoon RPF

I love this forum and its members, whether I agree with someone on this forum or not its been nothing but a learning experience for me. I mention this because I want to try something different. I am going to post a link to what ICELAND did when faced with a similar banking situation. Now many of you are familiar with what ICELAND did so that is nothing new but I will try to be informative anyway.

Now what I want to do is try something new, I want to post the ICELAND story and instead of 22 people telling me how it wont work or how it wont happen I want to sit and discuss ways that we COULD make this happen, even if only in theory. I really feel that if we spent way less time arguing and debating on what could be, what should be that we could be on our way to a solution. So please, PLEASE just in this one thread instead of cutting people off and saying NO WAY, lets be open and say YES WAY. The internet has this unlimited ability to bring us all together and it works, I see it all the time. Maybe this thread can spark ideas? Maybe a mixture of what Iceland did and some other entity 1000 years ago will be merged to create a solution. I certainly don't know everything but I am here to learn and share what I do know.


Here are a few stories and quotes of what Iceland did. Again, these are just ideas that have proven to work , of COURSE we have a bigger country with a dumbed down public but I'm telling you, it aint nearly as bad as alternative media has us thinking, many are asleep but MANY are awake, and its more and more each day. We the people, the tax payers, we are the highest authority on this land, sitting around gives consent to all that is going on.


Iceland Shows the Way

Nobel prize winning economist Joe Stiglitz notes:

What Iceland did was right. It would have been wrong to burden future generations with the mistakes of the financial system.

Nobel prize winning economist Paul Krugman writes:

What [Iceland's recovery] demonstrated was the … case for letting creditors of private banks gone wild eat the losses.

Krugman also says:

A funny thing happened on the way to economic Armageddon: Iceland’s very desperation made conventional behavior impossible, freeing the nation to break the rules. Where everyone else bailed out the bankers and made the public pay the price, Iceland let the banks go bust and actually expanded its social safety net. Where everyone else was fixated on trying to placate international investors, Iceland imposed temporary controls on the movement of capital to give itself room to maneuver.

Krugman is right. Letting the banks go bust – instead of perpetually bailing them out – is the right way to go.



Bloomberg reports:

Iceland holds some key lessons for nations trying to survive bailouts after the island’s approach to its rescue led to a “surprisingly” strong recovery, the International Monetary Fund’s mission chief to the country said.

Iceland’s commitment to its program, a decision to push losses on to bondholders instead of taxpayers and the safeguarding of a welfare system that shielded the unemployed from penury helped propel the nation from collapse toward recovery, according to the Washington-based fund.

***

Iceland refused to protect creditors in its banks, which failed in 2008 after their debts bloated to 10 times the size of the economy.



The main things they did were...
1. Fire and jail the bankers.
2. Nationalized the banks.
3. Rewrote the constitution by letting the general population decide what does and doesn't go in it.



http://mashable.com/2011/07/29/iceland-crowdsourced-constitution/

Icelanders on Friday delivered what may set the template for other governments: a crowdsourced constitution.

A group of 25 citizens presented a draft of the constitution to Iceland's parliament. The group, which is made up of ordinary residents, compiled the document online with the help of hundreds of others. The constitution council posted the first draft in April on its website and then let citizens comment via a Facebook Page. The council members are also active on Twitter, post videos of themselves on YouTube and put pictures on Flickr.

Iceland's original constitution was created in 1944 when the country gained independence from Denmark. The country's economic collapse in 2008 prompted calls for a rewrite with checks and balances to prevent a repeat of the financial crisis. The draft was due before the end of July. It may be put to a referendum without the input of parliament.

Iceland may be ahead of the curve on using social media to inform its new government, but it is not alone: Earlier this month, volunteers at a series of hackathons at Stanford University created a site where Egyptians could discuss their proposed constitution.

heavenlyboy34
08-15-2013, 03:29 PM
I agree with letting the bankers eat the loss from foolish malinvestment (often fueled by the FED). But nationalization is a horrible idea. It's never worked in the US. Decentralization of banking and currency has a far superior track record.

ZENemy
08-15-2013, 03:30 PM
I agree with letting the bankers eat the loss from foolish malinvestment (often fueled by the FED). But nationalization is a horrible idea. It's never worked in the US. Decentralization of banking and currency has a far superior track record.

Awesome thanks for the input, but to steer this thread in the direction I want to see it, instead of telling us what wont work, do you have something you can share that WILL WORK? Even just an idea. Stuff that people can research.

cjm
08-15-2013, 04:27 PM
No need to fire/jail bankers, nationalize anything, or create any sort of new "system." Allow currency competition. The market will purge anything unhealthy.

The Free Hornet
08-15-2013, 04:39 PM
I can support firings and ending the fed, but will not call for jailing since

a) you'll almost always miss the big fish and hit the scape goats
b) calls for 'jailing' are contagious - better to stop the thieving and not add to our incarceration costs.

What can be done? For starters... We must oppose the bailout of Detroit! If the people who buy bonds don't suffer financial losses, they will continue to be used to finance oppressive governments at all levels, in most countries.

danda
08-15-2013, 05:22 PM
I think the number one thing that we can do as individuals is to stop supporting the banks. Take our business elsewhere.

1) Credit Unions.
2) Decentralized cryptocurrencies. ( Bitcoin et al )

Support the internet credit union. iafcu.org

Here is a great talk by one of the ICU founders that combines both of the above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD6fVNGEnlI

ZENemy
08-15-2013, 06:05 PM
I think the number one thing that we can do as individuals is to stop supporting the banks. Take our business elsewhere.

1) Credit Unions.
2) Decentralized cryptocurrencies. ( Bitcoin et al )

Support the internet credit union. iafcu.org

Here is a great talk by one of the ICU founders that combines both of the above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD6fVNGEnlI

Great information, thanks!

ZENemy
08-15-2013, 06:06 PM
I can support firings and ending the fed, but will not call for jailing since

a) you'll almost always miss the big fish and hit the scape goats
b) calls for 'jailing' are contagious - better to stop the thieving and not add to our incarceration costs.

What can be done? For starters... We must oppose the bailout of Detroit! If the people who buy bonds don't suffer financial losses, they will continue to be used to finance oppressive governments at all levels, in most countries.

Totally agree, do you think a bailout is likely ? I feel we will see fascism's true nightmare in Detroit. (robocop)

The Free Hornet
08-15-2013, 06:49 PM
Totally agree, do you think a bailout is likely ? I feel we will see fascism's true nightmare in Detroit. (robocop)

I don't know the bailout odds but agree about Robocop - I liked the first two movies and they foreshadowed alot.

https://oaf12.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/you-have-20-seconds-to-comply1.jpg

shane77m
08-16-2013, 06:21 AM
Do everything you legally can to not pay taxes. Or if you prefer, do everything you can that is not legal to not pay taxes.
Even though I keep hearing that the income tax is voluntary....

If you can handle having more government in your life then do everything you can to get government benefits. Help bleed the system.

Start organizing secession movements. This might be easier if the next president continues the course we are on currently.

ZENemy
08-16-2013, 09:18 AM
Do everything you legally can to not pay taxes. Or if you prefer, do everything you can that is not legal to not pay taxes.
Even though I keep hearing that the income tax is voluntary....

If you can handle having more government in your life then do everything you can to get government benefits. Help bleed the system.

Start organizing secession movements. This might be easier if the next president continues the course we are on currently.


Check this out

http://citizeninitiatives.org/sovereignty_states_rights_amend.htm

klamath
08-16-2013, 09:37 AM
I agree with letting the investors take the hit and not the tax payers but now with nationalization if the banks do fail the tax payer SHOULD pay for the losses.

RonPaulMall
08-16-2013, 10:36 AM
I agree with not bailing out the banks. Don't see how anything else they did is particularly relevant or instructive though. A crowd sourced Constitution is fine I guess, so long am not subject to it against my will.

MRK
08-16-2013, 10:53 PM
We need a movement to repeal Amendment 14, Section 4 of the Constituion which states:

"Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. "

Once repealed, we can then default on the 17 trillion in debt.

MRK
08-16-2013, 10:55 PM
Do everything you legally can to not pay taxes. Or if you prefer, do everything you can that is not legal to not pay taxes.
Even though I keep hearing that the income tax is voluntary....

If you can handle having more government in your life then do everything you can to get government benefits. Help bleed the system.

Start organizing secession movements. This might be easier if the next president continues the course we are on currently.

Many countries have tax treaties with the United States where you only have to pay one of their taxes. You can pay the tax to another country and still remain a citizen of the US without giving any income tax to the fedcoats.

Furthermore, if you earn income outside of the US while living outside of the US your income is exempt up to $92,000 or so, or so I am told.

Of course, this requires living outside of the United States for more than half the year.

XNavyNuke
02-10-2014, 08:58 PM
Iceland actually CUTTING government workers.

http://icelandreview.com/news/2014/01/29/extensive-layoffs-icelands-government-offices

XNN