MSNBC Goes Full Retard

[RonPaul4Prez2012]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7HpgwzCW5Q

[dillo]

The militia movement sure is racist, I mean thats why it was so active in the 80s

[RonPaul4Prez2012]

The militia movement sure is racist, I mean thats why it was so active in the 80s

yur stupid

[Philhelm]

Odin's balls... Stupid bastards.

[fr33]

It sure is strange as a hippyish libertarian to be labeled as a racist. I have no idea what they base it on. It would make more sense if they went after neocons for their racist tendencies.

[dillo]

Libertarian: Black people should not get special treatment, everyone should be treated equally

Liberal/Democrat: Black people need help to get jobs and into school, so we need quotas

how people ever interpret the libertarian as racist is beyond me

[AngryCanadian]

MSNBC is just pathetic they remind me of FOX news.

[compromise]

There are black, Jewish and Latino militia members. I wouldn't say all militias are racist, some are, but not a majority.

[Antischism]

Libertarian: Black people should not get special treatment, everyone should be treated equally

Liberal/Democrat: Black people need help to get jobs and into school, so we need quotas

how people ever interpret the libertarian as racist is beyond me

Are black people/minorities currently treated equally, though? Or are you one of those people who think whites are being oppressed and minorities have some sort of upper hand? Because if you think white people (the majority therefore the default race of this country and people who run the country in government) and black people (recent history of being enslaved, demonized, heavily incarcerated victims of unjust drug laws, stop-and-frisks, discrimination in the work place, unfavorable media portrayal, below the white standard of beauty pushed by the media, mostly at or below poverty levels, passed over on employment options for having a black sounding name, etc) / minorities like Mexicans or other people from Spanish-speaking countries (supposedly ruining the country by stealing jobs, stigmatized as dirty illegals, also victims of many things facing African Americans like racial profiling) are on equal footing, you're either ignorant or purposely being obtuse.

The system is broken and heavily skewed to favor white people based on America's racist history and current laws. While certain programs which purport to help blacks and minorities may be causing more harm than good, it's a mistake to claim all races would suddenly be equal if we got rid of these programs. There's much worse racism entrenched in the system to attack and worry about than affirmative action.

Maybe once we end the War on Drugs, stop intervening in the affairs of other nations and fighting unconstitutional wars, become a prosperous nation, create more jobs and do away with corporatism, we'll see much more equality.

This doesn't mean anyone has to be guilty for having a particular skin color; that's preposterous. It does mean however, that in order to create a more equal society, we must eliminate government and its unjust laws. I don't think racism will ever end nor do I think it's odd that a country that's majority white will cater more to the majority, but as things are now, getting close to equality is a joke.

[kcchiefs6465]

The system is broken and heavily skewed to favor white people based on America's racist history and current laws.
As a young white male I can assure you it isn't what you've hyped it up to be. My privilege has been being stopped and harassed and extorted seemingly bi-weekly and many times more often for things I did not do and for reasons that were not stated or ever made clear/no charges levied. That is all to have money stolen or property destroyed and to be molested by [wannabe] agents who knew me by nothing more than a face.

Threatened execution or an attempted murder I do know blacks who received the same treatment, though differently. (not the same circumstances, of course) My point being it isn't a white versus black thing. I've had my rights violated by all shades of swine as has some I know.

You can be intentionally dense on whether or not white people are profiled but that doesn't change the facts of life as it has been apparent to me. More than I'll get involved with in discussing I can assure you I never received preferential treatment.

Are blacks treated equally? By me, yes. Their rights being violated are supposed to void the facts my rights are also being violated? (or are some rights worth more) I doubt many are advocating preferential treatment for either race so what exactly do you mean?

[Antischism]

As a young white male I can assure you it isn't what you've hyped it up to be. My privilege has been being stopped and harassed and extorted seemingly bi-weekly and many times more often for things I did not do and for reasons that were not stated or ever made clear/no charges levied. That is all to have money stolen or property destroyed and to be molested by [wannabe] agents who knew me by nothing more than a face.

Threatened execution or an attempted murder I do know blacks who received the same treatment, though differently. (not the same circumstances, of course) My point being it isn't a white versus black thing. I've had my rights violated by all shades of swine as has some I know.

You can be intentionally dense on whether or not white people are profiled but that doesn't change the facts of life as it has been apparent to me. More than I'll get involved with in discussing I can assure you I never received preferential treatment.

Are blacks treated equally? By me, yes. Their rights being violated are supposed to void the facts my rights are also being violated? (or are some rights worth more) I doubt many are advocating preferential treatment for either race so what exactly do you mean?

The problem with your statement is that it's anecdotal evidence and I'm not stating at all that white people can't also face such hardships. It happens, but the issue is that it very much skews against blacks/minorities. On average and simply going by statistics, a person of color is more likely to get stopped by the police or get a much harsher charge for similar crimes in comparison to a white person. Why is this? Is it because dark skin is associated with criminal behavior, therefore a person of color is more likely to be a repeat offender? On average, an employer is more likely to choose a resume with a white sounding name over the black sounding name, all other things being equal.

Blacks have a history of being subjugated and enslaved in this country. If you think that's easily forgotten by blacks, I'd beg to differ in their defense. Stereotypes dating way back to minstrel shows still exist and black people have been portrayed as big, scary thugs in the media for decades. White is the standard; the default. Of course, your mileage may vary and socioeconomic factors play a role, but you simply can't deny that the War on Drugs has been destroying black/minority families and further exacerbating the issue when it cuts off half of the family's income and children grow up in single-parent homes.

This point of view is often lambasted on the 'right' because people on the 'left' don't exactly offer the right solutions, so in turn, it seems that the anger turns into a mentality where conservatives see it in a black/white (figuratively speaking) political nature. Some just shut off their brains and resort to posting articles about how black people must be worse therefore a bane to this country because statistics say they commit more crimes in comparison, despite that being a symptom of deeper issues entrenched in the system. Eventually the debate goes nowhere while one side continuously becomes bitter and harbors more hatred for people of color and the other ignorantly calls everyone a racist because they've become hypersensitive to the talking points of many on the 'right'. Then there's another group of people who just don't want to talk about race at all despite it still being an issue today.

On a personal level, there's more tolerance nowadays, definitely. On a federal level, we have a long way to go.

[kcchiefs6465]

The problem with your statement is that it's anecdotal evidence and I'm not stating at all that white people can't also face such hardships. It happens, but the issue is that it very much skews against blacks/minorities. On average and simply going by statistics, a person of color is more likely to get stopped by the police or get a much harsher charge for similar crimes in comparison to a white person. Why is this? Is it because dark skin is associated with criminal behavior, therefore a person of color is more likely to be a repeat offender? On average, an employer is more likely to choose a resume with a white sounding name over the black sounding name, all other things being equal.
And an employer is just as easily able to look up the trumped up dismissed charges I've been harassed with and say, "This man has a problem with authority." No doubt they'd go for the person down the line who doesn't have the potential baggage they view I may have. That is their right, to be clear, but it also is unreasonable for charges to be dismissed yet remain on record. This is intentional.

Not that I would agree with dismissing some based solely on their name as I am sure many employers don't either.



Blacks have a history of being subjugated and enslaved in this country. If you think that's easily forgotten by blacks, I'd beg to differ in their defense. Stereotypes dating way back to minstrel shows still exist and black people have been portrayed as big, scary thugs in the media for decades. White is the standard; the default. Of course, your mileage may vary and socioeconomic factors play a role, but you simply can't deny that the War on Drugs has been destroying black/minority families and further exacerbating the issue when it cuts off half of the family's income and children grow up in single-parent homes.

True. Drug laws, especially the Marihuana Tax Act, were rooted in racism. "Black men raping white women and Mexicans smoking grass and going insane." Piss on Anslinger. The war on drugs is destroying families. Black and white included. You could mention how the DEA and CIA have gone the approach of using the proverbial "big fish" to catch the "little fish" while letting the supplier off leniently for giving information on the people he sold to. You'd have me in agreement. As you mentioned it is more socioeconomically determined and the "hood" isn't simply filled with blacks. Many lives are destroyed through these detrimental policies. Don't attempt to minimalize that fact.



This point of view is often lambasted on the 'right' because people on the 'left' don't exactly offer the right solutions, so in turn, it seems that the anger turns into a mentality where conservatives see it in a black/white (figuratively speaking) political nature. Some just shut off their brains and resort to posting articles about how black people must be worse therefore a bane to this country because statistics say they commit more crimes in comparison, despite that being a symptom of deeper issues entrenched in the system. Eventually the debate goes nowhere while one side continuously becomes bitter and harbors more hatred for people of color and the other ignorantly calls everyone a racist because they've become hypersensitive to the talking points of many on the 'right'. Then there's another group of people who just don't want to talk about race at all despite it still being an issue today.

Some here are trolls who post Glenn Beck/Hannity shit all night long. I have no doubt a few stormfronters as well. I suppose I'd fall in the third group. It being an issue is a very clear result of some people pushing it as an issue. (not speaking about you, to be clear) There are racists on both sides using their proverbial podium to spew their bullshit. It still being an issue, and I'll clarify the inner city is where it is the issue, is between the young and old. Those of my age, in the city, could not care less. Of course some won't change.

Now people point out those who've gotten attacked and senseless violence is a problem; people look for excuses. It doesn't matter if you're white, black, or blue. It's not hard to understand. Watch surroundings. People out of place are out of place and be aware.

The police is the only gang to ever rob me. They were culturally diverse though.



On a personal level, there's more tolerance nowadays, definitely. On a federal level, we have a long way to go.
On a federal level we have a long way to go on many things. The war on drugs and disproportionate sentences given to blacks. Mandatory minimum sentences as well, which affect everyone. Asset forfeiture and the militarization of the police force which undoubtedly affects everyone.

The cutting would be more elimination towards many of the pork eating, swine farm, swine farm raiding (ironically) federal pigs.

[fisharmor]

Well, I hope everyone has learned an important lesson about Michael Steele here.
I'm pretty glad... I thought a lot of people here were way too willing to start cozying up to him a couple years ago.

[ThePenguinLibertarian]

Libertarian: Black people should not get special treatment, everyone should be treated equally

Liberal/Democrat: Black people need help to get jobs and into school, so we need quotas

how people ever interpret the libertarian as racist is beyond me
Psychology perhaps? People really want faith in government?

[pcosmar]

Ongoing agenda is ongoing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is_CRRyTei4

Yeah,, the militia is racist.

Remember this,,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvBQDHqdCck

MSNBC..

[enoch150]

an employer is more likely to choose a resume with a white sounding name over the black sounding name, all other things being equal.

Depends on who's doing the hiring, I think. There are more whites in charge of hiring, so there probably is more rejection of black sounding names. But I would not be surprised at all if the rate of rejection based on stereotypical names was the same for both whites and blacks when the opposite is hiring.

I have two relatives who were rejected for jobs because they were white. One was told she was the best qualified, but they needed more minority representation (a government job, in education.) The other was told that he wouldn't fit in with the culture at a facility which was 90% black.

[Contumacious]

It sure is strange as a hippyish libertarian to be labeled as a racist. I have no idea what they base it on. It would make more sense if they went after neocons for their racist tendencies.

It's called character assassination

From the "if you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit" department.

.

[KingNothing]

As a young white male I can assure you it isn't what you've hyped it up to be. My privilege has been being stopped and harassed and extorted seemingly bi-weekly and many times more often for things I did not do and for reasons that were not stated or ever made clear/no charges levied. That is all to have money stolen or property destroyed and to be molested by [wannabe] agents who knew me by nothing more than a face.

Threatened execution or an attempted murder I do know blacks who received the same treatment, though differently. (not the same circumstances, of course) My point being it isn't a white versus black thing. I've had my rights violated by all shades of swine as has some I know.

You can be intentionally dense on whether or not white people are profiled but that doesn't change the facts of life as it has been apparent to me. More than I'll get involved with in discussing I can assure you I never received preferential treatment.

Are blacks treated equally? By me, yes. Their rights being violated are supposed to void the facts my rights are also being violated? (or are some rights worth more) I doubt many are advocating preferential treatment for either race so what exactly do you mean?

You're being completely ridiculous. There is categorical, undeniable, proof of institutionalized racism both in the judicial system and in corporate America.

Being white makes life exponentially easier than being not white. This isn't a reason for guilt, or shame, or self-loathing. It is, however, cause to investigate why this paradigm currently exists -- as an objective, white, on-looker, I think it's pretty obvious: the war on drugs and democrat economic policy.

That you're completely unwilling to admit that life as a white person, imperfect as it is, is easier than life as literally anyone else, shows an ignorance - not racism, not hate, not fear. None of that. I'd suggest that you look into research on the subject because it sounds like you've no idea how much worse things could be for you.

[donnay]

Well, I hope everyone has learned an important lesson about Michael Steele here.
I'm pretty glad... I thought a lot of people here were way too willing to start cozying up to him a couple years ago.


I never liked Steele. I could never put my finger on why I didn't like him but I sensed he was a slimeball.

[Pericles]

Summary - anybody can be white if the media dislikes you.

[KEEF]

Summary - anybody can be white if the media dislikes you.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/10356

[Acala]

On average, an employer is more likely to choose a resume with a white sounding name over the black sounding name, all other things being equal.

Probably so. And there is a perfectly rational reason for doing so that has nothing to do with the employer being racist. A black employee represents a greater risk of legal liability to the employer than an otherwise identical white employee due to equal employment opportunity laws. So a perfectly rational, non-racist businessman would choose the white employee to get the same performance at reduced risk. That is government helping the black man.

[SonofThunder]

The SPLC is a hate group

[dillo]

Are black people/minorities currently treated equally, though? Or are you one of those people who think whites are being oppressed and minorities have some sort of upper hand? Because if you think white people (the majority therefore the default race of this country and people who run the country in government) and black people (recent history of being enslaved, demonized, heavily incarcerated victims of unjust drug laws, stop-and-frisks, discrimination in the work place, unfavorable media portrayal, below the white standard of beauty pushed by the media, mostly at or below poverty levels, passed over on employment options for having a black sounding name, etc) / minorities like Mexicans or other people from Spanish-speaking countries (supposedly ruining the country by stealing jobs, stigmatized as dirty illegals, also victims of many things facing African Americans like racial profiling) are on equal footing, you're either ignorant or purposely being obtuse.

The system is broken and heavily skewed to favor white people based on America's racist history and current laws. While certain programs which purport to help blacks and minorities may be causing more harm than good, it's a mistake to claim all races would suddenly be equal if we got rid of these programs. There's much worse racism entrenched in the system to attack and worry about than affirmative action.

Maybe once we end the War on Drugs, stop intervening in the affairs of other nations and fighting unconstitutional wars, become a prosperous nation, create more jobs and do away with corporatism, we'll see much more equality.

This doesn't mean anyone has to be guilty for having a particular skin color; that's preposterous. It does mean however, that in order to create a more equal society, we must eliminate government and its unjust laws. I don't think racism will ever end nor do I think it's odd that a country that's majority white will cater more to the majority, but as things are now, getting close to equality is a joke.

I think your grossly misrepresenting what I said.

I want everyone to be treated equally, I never said people were currently being treated equally. I am against affirmative action and quotas mainly because they divide people. You are never going to solve the issues of discrimination and racism by putting labels on people and victimizing them because of their skin color. While your intentions are might be good, all it does is divide people. If you are against treating people equally than I dont think you are ever going to solve the problems that plague this country.

[Original_Intent]

MSNBC going full retard is a pretty short trip from where they live. And Fox is next door neighbors on the other side.

[bunklocoempire]

Simply brilliant.

I don't hate what you do because of what you do, I hate what you do because of who you are.

So please, could you put on some white (other) face when you stick that gun in my ribs?

Thanks, that's you're much better. :confused::rolleyes:

Piss off ya fear mongering-hate spreading-issue clouders.:mad:

[kcchiefs6465]

Reading your post I didn't really know where to begin. I guess I'll break down each of your points.


There is categorical, undeniable, proof of institutionalized racism both in the judicial system and in corporate America.
True about institutionalized racism being found in the judicial system. Not really sure what exactly your "categorical, undeniable, proof of institutionalized racism" in corporate America is referring to. I do know affirmative action is not needed. Whoever is fit for the job is fit for the job. A company that hired inferior people based simply because they were white or black would suffer in the long run because of it. Not to mention business practices could be known and people could judge them accordingly on whether or not they agree with the business's ideals.



Being white makes life exponentially easier than being not white. This isn't a reason for guilt, or shame, or self-loathing. It is, however, cause to investigate why this paradigm currently exists -- as an objective, white, on-looker, I think it's pretty obvious: the war on drugs and democrat economic policy.

Exponentially, huh? Not seeing it. Perhaps you have had things handed to you based on your skin tone but me, no. Difference of experiences I'd assume. The war on drugs is a tragedy. See, a type of people may say the war on drugs is a tragedy for blacks, and that is true. I say the war on drugs is a tragedy for everyone. Hispanics, blacks, whites everyone. That is the difference in looking at things collectively and arguing a reverse racist point or looking at things individually and judging them for what they are.



That you're completely unwilling to admit that life as a white person, imperfect as it is, is easier than life as literally anyone else, shows an ignorance - not racism, not hate, not fear. None of that. I'd suggest that you look into research on the subject because it sounds like you've no idea how much worse things could be for you.
My life is not easier because of skin tone. Perhaps yours was, and that's great, but I've worked hard for everything I have and never had a damn thing given to me. I've been profiled and harassed more times than I care to get into. I've had charges trumped up more times than I care to get into. And I've seen racism from both sides living where I have. You perpetuating some victim mentality isn't helping anyone. Every generation "race relations" get better.

What do you want me to acknowledge that I haven't? (simple, concise points, please) Yes, blacks are disproportionately arrested and sentenced to jail time. Crack cocaine laws are unjust. (any drug law, actually) I fail to see me in denial of anything. What I see is me not wavering on the issue simply because of one's skin tone. Blacks being imprisoned for petty victimless crimes is as much of a tragedy as whites being imprisoned for petty victimless crimes. Pointing out one's race when mentioning their injustice is downplaying the injustices of the other. It is a distraction and further divides.

As to researching the subject I think I'll have to take a rain check. I've got much bigger fish to fry and my book list grows exponentially daily. I know of atrocities that you'd be hard pressed to find in your sociology books and read about more instances than is probably healthy, daily.

[jbauer]

We all knew at some point they were going to tie the Boston bombing to "far right" fringe groups. This is just the very beginning of the full on assault of Rand Paul. He jumped the gun and started campaigning in 2013. They have to start counter campaigning in 2013. The Hillary "stealing" through her charity is whats got these panty sniffers up in arms. How dare someone question their chosen successor to the thrown.

I say f 'em all, for all we know 2016 might never come. You see what they're doing to political rivals in Egypt. What makes you think that wont start happening here?

[jbauer]

Oh and as far as this whole black vs white, poor vs rich, food stamps vs bailouts. We all have it tough. You can bring up reasons about why such and such group has it worse then another but just about anyone can find statistics to claim their group is being treated unfairly.

Why don't we argue for liberty and freedom for EVERYONE, that way everyone can make a life for themselves and live or die based upon their success or lack there of alone.

[paulbot24]

Oh and as far as this whole black vs white, poor vs rich, food stamps vs bailouts. We all have it tough. You can bring up reasons about why such and such group has it worse then another but just about anyone can find statistics to claim their group is being treated unfairly.

Why don't we argue for liberty and freedom for EVERYONE, that way everyone can make a life for themselves and live or die based upon their success or lack there of alone.

+rep. Damn you just channeled Ron Paul with that one.

[Origanalist]

+rep. Damn you just channeled Ron Paul with that one.

You mean racist Ron Paul?

[nobody's_hero]

The left uses the race card to the point of wearing it out. It's the equivalent of the right going all 'boogey boogey terrorism' all the time to the point where no one listens to them anymore.

[jbauer]

You mean racist Ron Paul?

If Ron's a racist I'll gladly hang from the tree right next to him when they come for us.

[jbauer]

The left uses the race card to the point of wearing it out. It's the equivalent of the right going all 'boogey boogey terrorism' all the time to the point where no one listens to them anymore.

Then why do BOTH SIDES keep listening?

[angelatc]

Are black people/minorities currently treated equally, though? Or are you one of those people who think whites are being oppressed and minorities have some sort of upper hand? Because if you think white people (the majority therefore the default race of this country and people who run the country in government) and black people (recent history of being enslaved, demonized, heavily incarcerated victims of unjust drug laws, stop-and-frisks, discrimination in the work place, unfavorable media portrayal, below the white standard of beauty pushed by the media, mostly at or below poverty levels, passed over on employment options for having a black sounding name, etc) / minorities like Mexicans or other people from Spanish-speaking countries (supposedly ruining the country by stealing jobs, stigmatized as dirty illegals, also victims of many things facing African Americans like racial profiling) are on equal footing, you're either ignorant or purposely being obtuse.

The system is broken and heavily skewed to favor white people based on America's racist history and current laws. While certain programs which purport to help blacks and minorities may be causing more harm than good, it's a mistake to claim all races would suddenly be equal if we got rid of these programs. There's much worse racism entrenched in the system to attack and worry about than affirmative action.

Maybe once we end the War on Drugs, stop intervening in the affairs of other nations and fighting unconstitutional wars, become a prosperous nation, create more jobs and do away with corporatism, we'll see much more equality.

This doesn't mean anyone has to be guilty for having a particular skin color; that's preposterous. It does mean however, that in order to create a more equal society, we must eliminate government and its unjust laws. I don't think racism will ever end nor do I think it's odd that a country that's majority white will cater more to the majority, but as things are now, getting close to equality is a joke.


I hate everybody equally.

[Legend1104]

Sometimes the dumb is so high that your left dumbfounded and speechless.

[torchbearer]

I never liked Steele. I could never put my finger on why I didn't like him but I sensed he was a slimeball.

you don't recall what he said about Ron after the Guiliani debate?

[MelissaWV]

Yeah, there are some instances where perceived race is going to (sadly) play a part in how you are treated.

Guess what else?

Married vs. not
Old vs. young
Tall vs. short
Fat vs. thin
Male vs. female
Pretty vs. ugly

Your name is a way of making a first impression. The "black-sounding name" experiment was interesting. What they seem to have left out, though, were equally stereotypical "white-sounding names." I don't think Jim-Bob is going to get hired to a senior finance position, do you?

Saying "oh noes the minorities have it unfairer!" is pointless. Help individuals if you'd like, and tell yourself that doing so with the sole motivation of helping a poor minority out isn't racist, but life isn't fair and we're each a minority of one.

[donnay]

you don't recall what he said about Ron after the Guiliani debate?

Hmm...not right off the top of my head. I am sure it was something smarmy.

[tod evans]

I hate everybody equally.

Why yeah! :D

[torchbearer]

Hmm...not right off the top of my head. I am sure it was something smarmy.

(concerning Ron) 'for me, he's done.'
the clip i believe is in movie, For Liberty.

[JustinTime]

White people are to the "blue team" what Muslims are to the "red team": always the group to blame.

[Occam's Banana]

I hate everybody equally.

Dirty angelatc ... (nah - doesn't quite have the same ring to it) ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnRkCemeV7k


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnRkCemeV7k

[KingNothing]

True about institutionalized racism being found in the judicial system. Not really sure what exactly your "categorical, undeniable, proof of institutionalized racism" in corporate America is referring to.


Are you kidding? From having a more difficult time getting in to colleges, and then, after graduating, have a more difficult time finding work. And this is in spite of affirmative action.

For employment, people tend to hire employees within their own race, which has the effect of benefiting whichever race is predominant in an area: http://moya.bus.miami.edu/~lgiuliano/Hires.pdf



I do know affirmative action is not needed.


It shouldn't be needed, and it shouldn't exist. But it IS needed, and it does exist, because humans are not perfect. That isn't to say I endorse Affirmative Action. I don't. But that is an easy position for me to hold, as a white male. I take the stance that ANY government force is bad, even that which is well-intended.



Whoever is fit for the job is fit for the job. A company that hired inferior people based simply because they were white or black would suffer in the long run because of it.


And yet, companies have been making racially motivated hires for literally hundreds of years.



Not to mention business practices could be known and people could judge them accordingly on whether or not they agree with the business's ideals.


Right, but it is so systemic and so pervasive, that no one even notices it unless they read actual studies, and almost no one does that. People prefer to remain ignorant.



Exponentially, huh? Not seeing it. Perhaps you have had things handed to you based on your skin tone but me, no. Difference of experiences I'd assume.


I haven't had shit handed to me, so stop with that. Your complete inability to imagine how things could be worse for you is just astonishing.



The war on drugs is a tragedy. See, a type of people may say the war on drugs is a tragedy for blacks, and that is true. I say the war on drugs is a tragedy for everyone. Hispanics, blacks, whites everyone. That is the difference in looking at things collectively and arguing a reverse racist point or looking at things individually and judging them for what they are.


This is blithering stupidity. The war on drugs hurts everyone, sure. But it hurts african americans in a disproportionate manner. Why won't you admit that?



My life is not easier because of skin tone.


Every piece of research -ALL OF THEM- says otherwise. You're basing your opinion on anecdotal evidence and confirmation bias. That is a TERRIBLE foundation for a belief system.



Perhaps yours was, and that's great, but I've worked hard for everything I have and never had a damn thing given to me. I've been profiled and harassed more times than I care to get into. I've had charges trumped up more times than I care to get into. And I've seen racism from both sides living where I have. You perpetuating some victim mentality isn't helping anyone.


Read this again and tell me which one of us is playing a victim mentality.



What do you want me to acknowledge that I haven't? (simple, concise points, please) Yes, blacks are disproportionately arrested and sentenced to jail time. Crack cocaine laws are unjust. (any drug law, actually) I fail to see me in denial of anything. What I see is me not wavering on the issue simply because of one's skin tone. Blacks being imprisoned for petty victimless crimes is as much of a tragedy as whites being imprisoned for petty victimless crimes. Pointing out one's race when mentioning their injustice is downplaying the injustices of the other. It is a distraction and further divides.


OK, so you're pointing out examples where it is beneficial to be white. And then you say "but we have to ignore those things." Do you understand how retarded you sound?



As to researching the subject I think I'll have to take a rain check.

Of course. Exploring these facts wouldn't confirm your previously held beliefs so of course you won't venture down that path.

[Pericles]

Probably so. And there is a perfectly rational reason for doing so that has nothing to do with the employer being racist. A black employee represents a greater risk of legal liability to the employer than an otherwise identical white employee due to equal employment opportunity laws. So a perfectly rational, non-racist businessman would choose the white employee to get the same performance at reduced risk. That is government helping the black man.
My company never has any job openings - so we don't have those kinds of employment issues.

[TheTexan]

Blacks have a history of being subjugated and enslaved in this country.

So do whites

[kcchiefs6465]

Are you kidding? From having a more difficult time getting in to colleges, and then, after graduating, have a more difficult time finding work.

For employment, people tend to hire employees within their own race, which has the effect of benefiting whichever race is predominant in an area:

This is the plight of all Americans. (a lack of jobs for the degrees given) You seem to want to dwell on that which affects everyone and make it an issue that is simply affecting blacks. There is a problem within the school system as well. Blacks aren't rejected from colleges. If you can pay, you can play. Colleges are lucrative businesses. Pell grants and student loans have made college accessible to everyone. (a big clusterfuck it will become) The jobs aren't going to be there for most all degrees. Especially say, psychologists or when you major in liberal arts. Certain areas of study are going to be affected differently. Like I said, it is an issue that affects everyone.

To be clear though, colleges are private institutions. You have Mormon colleges and the like. They have no obligation to cater to you based on race or religion. If they do or don't is their choice. Say if a black person is rejected from a certain college based on them being black. That's a shame, and they obviously have the right to speak out against the racist policy of the school or start a boycott to protest them. There are other colleges. Why would a black person want a school to be forced to accept them when they have biases and would treat them unfairly? Wouldn't it be more logical to find a school which holds your same general beliefs? I wouldn't go to BYU, for example, and wouldn't want a Federal law to force them to accept me if I did.

The market would provide for this. If private institutions wanted to be white only, or black only, or Mormon only, or gays only, that is their prerogative. Laws from the top down do nothing to further race relations and in fact cause animosity. I will spell this out real clearly. A race should neither be penalized or rewarded from government policies. The sooner people start seeing their fellow countrymen as individuals the better off we'll be.



It shouldn't be needed, and it shouldn't exist. But it IS needed, and it does exist, because humans are not perfect. That isn't to say I endorse Affirmative Action. I don't. But that is an easy position for me to hold, as a white male. I take the stance that ANY government force is bad, even that which is well-intended.

It is not needed. You think if Walmart only hired whites there wouldn't be mass outrage and protests? Boycotts? The same would be for any major corporation. They have an interest in representing the demographics of the community they are in. Forcing private businesses to hire people who weren't fit for the job or promoting people who weren't fit to manage does nothing good. For one, it certainly doesn't improve race relations. Especially for the business owner who is forced to compensate someone who wasn't the best candidate. And for two, it is an encroachment on liberty. Same with the CRA and forcing businesses to allow blacks or gays or whoever into your private establishment. Could you imagine in today's day and age if a business posted a sign on their door that said, "No Coloreds"? The business would lose customers and be ostracized... probably ran out of town. The government isn't needed to protect people from perceived wrongs. Their intentions may be noble but it is a task no amount of bureaucracy could solve. The road to hell is always paved with good intentions.



And yet, companies have been making racially motivated hires for literally hundreds of years.

People had slaves for hundreds of years as well. Would you imagine that practice to go unchallenged in America today? What about women? They were also discriminated against for most of our country's history. When you slip down the slope you are advocating you end up seeing these absurd lawsuits of obese men suing their employers for being fired. Or any of the other examples I could find. Unnecessarily PC world is unnecessarily PC.



Right, but it is so systemic and so pervasive, that no one even notices it unless they read actual studies, and almost no one does that. People prefer to remain ignorant.

I don't need to read your studies. I don't need to take a course in sociology or sensitivity training. I grew up in a community that was over 50% black. The racism was on both sides. I wasn't whining to MSNBC and Al Sharpton about it though, when I was discriminated against or challenged for being white.



I haven't had shit handed to me, so stop with that. Your complete inability to imagine how things could be worse for you is just astonishing.

Things could be worse if I was picking diamonds from a goddamned creek in Liberia. The hell is your point?



This is blithering stupidity. The war on drugs hurts everyone, sure. But it hurts african americans in a disproportionate manner. Why won't you admit that?

I did. Crusade on ending the War on Drugs. You'll have my support. But I am kind of curious, not that you would know and if you don't no worries, what is Al Sharpton's view on completely ending the War on Drugs? Or the militarization of the police force? Or the daily violations of the Fourth Amendment? Does he care about it on philosophical grounds or is it simply because blacks are being affected? I'd like to hear him speak out about the problems philosophically and simply because they are wrong. I'd actually have a shred of respect for him if he did. Not to mention he could drop truth bombs on his show about where the drugs are coming from and the government organizations benefiting. You know, he could even talk about the owner's of the record labels having stocks in private prisons. Speak out against the five year olds rapping about be "coke boys" and whipping crack. Instead he signs a book deal with them.



Every piece of research -ALL OF THEM- says otherwise. You're basing your opinion on anecdotal evidence and confirmation bias. That is a TERRIBLE foundation for a belief system.

A belief system? That terminology kind of irks me. This issue doesn't keep me up at night. Philosophically I think a certain way, that is the foundation of my beliefs. That is coupled with the experiences I've had... of course. The studies you quoted also mentioned black owners and managers hiring blacks disproportionally. Boo fucking hoo.



Read this again and tell me which one of us is playing a victim mentality.

Perpetuating a victim mentality is not the same as playing a victim mentality. I'm sure the twisting of my words was an unintentional mistake. No worries.



OK, so you're pointing out examples where it is beneficial to be white. And then you say "but we have to ignore those things." Do you understand how retarded you sound?

Damn. You proved me wrong. Here I thought the twisting of my words was unintentional but now you are making up quotations to demonstrate your point. Tsk tsk.

See, I see "Stop and Frisk" as being unconstitutional and a disgrace to the ideals America was founded on. Your types dwell on the fact more blacks were stopped than whites. I can admit that more blacks blacks are stopped than whites. I can admit that that too is a disgrace. Here's the thing though, a black being stopped and molested by a pig is just as outrageous as a white being stopped and molested by the pigs, and vice versa. You, and Al Sharpton, though I understand the majority of your views aren't even closely the same, act as if it is more flagrant that one skin tone is harassed over the other. To be clear, it is more outrageous that they think they can stop any and everyone walking down the road and sexually assault them than that officers in the NYPD are prejudicial.



Of course. Exploring these facts wouldn't confirm your previously held beliefs so of course you won't venture down that path.
Truth be told, I could school you on an atrocity or two that were committed against blacks.

Venture down a few more paths and we could have a meaningful discussion sometime. I don't need "Cash Money Content" to explain race in America to me.

[KingNothing]

So, kcchiefs6465 is saying that life is difficult for everyone, then cites things that make it more difficult for some people, then says those things don't matter because life is difficult for everyone.

Do I have it right?

I'm not even arguing for government intervention. On the contrary, government intervention is why a lot of these problems even exist. Further, there is no amount of forced-hypocrisy that will coerce individuals into being better people. But I'm acknowledging the obvious which, for some reason, kcchiefs6465 will NEVER do -- that life is less-hard being white than it is being black. He, himself, has cited reasons justifying the belief that society prosecutes and persecutes black people more aggressively than white people, but won't go so far as to state that white privilege exists. He cites white privilege. Then says it isn't real.

This place is just depressing. We're supposed to be intelligent. We're supposed to seek the truth. We're supposed to overcome our biases. Start thinking! Be what we have to be in order to succeed!

[acptulsa]

What we need is an Affirmative Action Agency to specifically serve militia groups. It could be under Health and Human Services, and inspectors could set quotas and help the militiamen seek out disadvantaged weekend warriors and get them in shape for initiation. What a wonderful idea! Nothing like committing the federal government to help us make our little social groups as colorful as any beautiful rainbow! The Army did it in World War II, and it's high time the government helped the several militias do it too.

Of course, if the militias wind up looking, acting and smelling like the Crips and the Bloods, it could have a deleterious affect on the continued membership by other demographics. So, even though this was designed as a temporary agency to do a specific task, don't hold your breath waiting for it to be disbanded...

I'm confused that msnbc is the one bringing this to my attention. Why, the first armed, black Tea Partier I ever saw I saw on msnbc. Of course, they were busy claiming he was a well-tanned white guy who hated people of African descent, but in spite of that he was indeed of African descent himself and it was msnbc which pointed him out to me. You'd think that if they were really trying to convince me that such people didn't exist at all, they'd be more careful where they point their cameras.

[JK/SEA]

This place is just depressing. We're supposed to be intelligent. We're supposed to seek the truth. We're supposed to overcome our biases. Start thinking! Be what we have to be in order to succeed!

lol

[kcchiefs6465]

So, kcchiefs6465 is saying that life is difficult for everyone, then cites things that make it more difficult for some people, then says those things don't matter because life is difficult for everyone.

Why do you talk about me as if I'm not here? White privilege should have privileged your ass some manners and common decency. You wish to know what I'm saying, read what I'm saying. You are unable to respond in any substantial way so instead you resort to twisting words and demagoguery. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything less. By all means carry on.


Start thinking! Be what we have to be in order to succeed!
Am I even supposed to take this seriously?

"Be what we have to be in order to succeed"?

The sort of vague advice which doesn't actually advise that I'd expect from a fortune cookie. It wouldn't have annoyed me so much if you would have taught me how to say "apple" in Chinese and reaffirmed "7" as my lucky number.

The patronization is a little insulting. Be what we have to be in order to succeed? What exactly does that even entail? Assimilating to the propagandized media espoused group think opinion? Or simply withholding opinion? Perhaps taking sensitivity training so I don't offend someone when relating my opinion?

"Be like a butterfly and fly high."

:rolleyes:

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I don't even support libel litigation and laws, but damn would I enjoy the spectacle of Jones suing MSNBC for slander and defamation.

[MelissaWV]

So, kcchiefs6465 is saying that life is difficult for everyone, then cites things that make it more difficult for some people, then says those things don't matter because life is difficult for everyone.

Do I have it right?

I'm not even arguing for government intervention. On the contrary, government intervention is why a lot of these problems even exist. Further, there is no amount of forced-hypocrisy that will coerce individuals into being better people. But I'm acknowledging the obvious which, for some reason, kcchiefs6465 will NEVER do -- that life is less-hard being white than it is being black. He, himself, has cited reasons justifying the belief that society prosecutes and persecutes black people more aggressively than white people, but won't go so far as to state that white privilege exists. He cites white privilege. Then says it isn't real.

This place is just depressing. We're supposed to be intelligent. We're supposed to seek the truth. We're supposed to overcome our biases. Start thinking! Be what we have to be in order to succeed!

Which is why I support hiring quotas for short people.

[tod evans]

Which is why I support hiring quotas for short people.

Hey now!

What about bald headed folks?

Or bearded ones?

One eye?

9 fingers?

Pink clothing?

Metal in their face?

More laws! USA,USA.....