Anonymous’ Secret Presence In The U.S. Army

[presence]

Anonymous’ Secret Presence In The U.S. Army

“There are people who I only know as screen names but I have put my career in their hands.”
One member tells all.


posted on August 9, 2013 at 1:28pm EDT
http://s3-ak.buzzfeed.com/static/user_images/webdr02/2012/11/28/14/justinesharrock-11340-1354130369-0_large.jpg
(http://www.buzzfeed.com/justinesharrock) Justine Sharrock (http://www.buzzfeed.com/justinesharrock) BuzzFeed Staff






http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/8/8/14/enhanced-buzz-21666-1375986652-1.jpg
A Guy Fawkes mask on the dashboard is just one way this Army captain tips off other soldiers that he’s a fellow member of Anonymous.

An active-duty Army captain and member of Anonymous describes how the organization operates, his own involvement in the Arab Spring, how the crackdown on Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden has affected soldiers, and how more leaks are on the way. He has agreed to speak with BuzzFeed on the condition of anonymity.

Are there a lot of members of Anonymous in the Army?
There are more than you would think, more heavily in the techie world [of the military] — especially at Fort Huachuca, where all the intel people are. A lot of them wanted to get the job [there] because they want to learn secret stuff and have a better personal understanding of how the world actually works.

How do you know who is in Anonymous?
Initially we have the handshaking phase. The lingo is still relatively unknown. In conversation, you drop in jokes. If you are with someone on a mission, you’re like, “Man, there are over 9,000 reasons that this is a bad idea.” That initially establishes friendship. Once you feel comfortable with the person and they aren’t just posing as part of the culture, then you talk about what they’ve done and how much a part of it they are. It gets to the point where you are discussing individual operations.

What are the most popular operations amongst soldiers?
Anonymous is so distributed and leaderless that everyone has operations they love and hate. Operation Cartel (http://idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/anonymous-operation-cartel-is-back-on.php), especially at Fort Bliss. Operation Dark Net (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/operation-darknet) was universally loved. And Operation Payback (http://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/08/operation-payback-mastercard-website-wikileaks) was pretty well received.

What about you?
I was involved in the Arab Spring opening up internet communications. I was a facilitator for a lot of people who have more skills than me in the cyber world. I knew people who I met through 4chan, 9Chan, and 7Chan and then a lot of AnonOps IRCs and who they needed to talk to — the organizations that would help them, and people in government would give them resources and access — and was able to convince them to talk to people in Anonymous. I got people in the right rooms at the right time.

Would the military consider you a white or black hat?
The military sees me as black hat.

Is that a fair assessment?
All hats are gray. Every white hacker I know has a night job that is very much a black-hat job.

What were the results of what you did for the Arab Spring?
From what I heard they were able to establish ways to assist the activists to have a method where they could get information out of Egypt and have certain Twitter accounts tweet that information on their behalf. But I don’t know for sure. As soon as I was like, “Hey, this is this person,” and vice versa, they did tweet confirmation to make sure that certain Twitter accounts were controlled by certain people, and then I headed out of the room so there would be no “taint” of having a fed there.

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr06/2013/8/8/18/enhanced-buzz-27677-1376000246-28.jpg
DON EMMERT / Getty Images

Why do Anonymous members outside the military trust you?
My credibility is incredibly suspect in the group. I admit I work for the feds, and I provide information on myself so that they are comfortable. There are people who I only know as screen names but I have put my career in their hands.

What specific actions have other soldiers taken?
There are several [soldiers] I know that probably did things, but I don’t [I]know know that they did. I can legally say, probably under a [lie] detector, I have no proof that they did it. We keep our activities totally separate because at any point in time I can be put in the chair that I can’t lie in. You have to keep the /b/ [4chan’s “Random” board] brotherhood strong.

Does the military know about the Anonymous presence?
Pre-Manning, there were several academic papers put out trying to analyze it and school the leadership. Because the Army is a very top-down organization, they assume that [Anonymous] is too. Leadership wasn’t concerned with it until Manning happened. Then they read everything under the [lens] of what Manning did and it just scared them — scared them blind. They know we are in there and they assume that we are all going to do a Manning or a Snowden.

How have they addressed it?
Every six months you are mandated to get a Threat Awareness and Reporting Procedures Brief. It used to be very much like how to … spot the Iraqi contractor who is pacing off your base. Now it is, “Look at the person at your left and right. Are they espousing social beliefs that don’t line up with Army values? What websites do they go to at work?” With the caveat that it is OK to have political beliefs that are different. You get a heavy-handed feeling.
I have had more than a few officers come up to me and as we are trying to talk about [Anonymous] they are worried, like, “Are you CID [working undercover for the Central Investigative Division]?” Because you always worry about that.

Are the retaliations against Manning and Snowden discouraging Anonymous activity and the desire to leak information?
A lot [of Anonymous members] have been in long enough and are jaded. They are watching as the government comes down harder and harder. There is a growing sense of disdain and hatred because we are complicit in it. There are some secrets that need to be secrets but the stuff [the military] keeps secret just to protect the bottom line — you just feel like you are selling your soul every day. That is a lot of the motivation. Especially for people of the generation that believe that information should be free.

Are we going to see more leaks?
Yes. A lot [of Anonymous members] are mid- to high-rank NCOs. They are well-respected, have connections, and overly large security clearances. A lot of people who are part of the [Anonymous] culture are just dying at this point for something to come across their table that isn’t already out there. It is so easy to leak information that if you want to, you can do it.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/justinesharrock/anonymous-secret-presence-in-the-us-army

see also:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/we-are-legion-anonymous-presence-in-the-u-s-military.html

[Athan]

OPSEC!? We don't need no stinking OPSEC!! lol
BTW I loved the article, thanks!

[FrankRep]

I wish people would stop viewing Guy Fawkes as a hero.

[fr33]

I wish people would stop viewing Guy Fawkes as a hero.

It's the Guy Fawkes from the movie. Not the real Guy.

[Athan]

"V for Vendetta" is what is based on.

[FrankRep]

It's the Guy Fawkes from the movie. Not the real Guy.

The movie references the real Guy Fawkes.

[pcosmar]

The movie references the real Guy Fawkes.

References perhaps,, but is a different story altogether.

[FrankRep]

References perhaps,, but is a different story altogether.

I've seen the movie, but it would be a political mistake to align yourself with a character associated with Guy Fawkes.

[Tod]

If the movie guy is different, why use the same name? Not creative enough to come up with another name? Or is there a motive for using that name? Were they ignorant about that name, or did they actually admire him?

[pcosmar]

I've seen the movie, but it would be a political mistake to align yourself with a character associated with Guy Fawkes.

I know,, Guy Fawkes was betrayed by those he trusted.

(Trusted the WRONG people)

[pcosmar]

If the movie guy is different, why use the same name? Not creative enough to come up with another name?

I always see it as a Vendetta mask.
I had never looked into Guy Fawkes till after I saw the movie and folks were referencing Fawkes.

An interesting story in itself. But a very different story.

[fr33]

If the movie guy is different, why use the same name? Not creative enough to come up with another name? Or is there a motive for using that name? Were they ignorant about that name, or did they actually admire him?

I don't know. The movie is based on a comic book series from the 1980s.

[jbauer]

I've seen the movie, but it would be a political mistake to align yourself with a character associated with Guy Fawkes.

Since when is Anonymous a political organization? Second, why would they care what anyone thinks? That's why they're "anonymous".

[willwash]

The guy in the ask is named simply V. Not guy Fawkes.

[torchbearer]

I wish people would stop viewing Guy Fawkes as a hero.

if you oppress someone because of their religion, expect them to try and blow you up.
i consider the guy an almost hero- the almost part because he didn't finish off the statist thugs, but instead failed.

[torchbearer]

I always see it as a Vendetta mask.
I had never looked into Guy Fawkes till after I saw the movie and folks were referencing Fawkes.

An interesting story in itself. But a very different story.


seems like a different story if you only read the statist version of a "terrorist" plot.
once you realize it was out-of-control statist government leading to the decision to fight back, then the movie makes perfect sense with the guy reference.

before long, we will all wear the label terrorist(if you haven't earned your title yet)

[torchbearer]

The guy in the ask is named simply V. Not guy Fawkes.

the mask V is wearing is called a guy fawkes mask.

[pcosmar]

if you oppress someone because of their religion, expect them to try and blow you up.
i consider the guy an almost hero- the almost part because he didn't finish off the statist thugs, but instead failed.

I have to wonder how history might be different had they succeeded.

[torchbearer]

I have to wonder how history might be different had they succeeded.

future legislatures may had thought twice before persecuting a religion again.

[FrankRep]

if you oppress someone because of their religion, expect them to try and blow you up.
i consider the guy an almost hero- the almost part because he didn't finish off the statist thugs, but instead failed.

Committing acts of terrorism, especially when innocent people are murdered, doesn't make you a hero.

[torchbearer]

Committing acts of terrorism, especially when innocent people are murdered, doesn't make you a hero.


true- random violence is immoral.
but-
legislators who are the ones initiating the violence of law against you are not innocent people.
he wasn't trying to blowup a parade, his target was specific to the origin of the violence.
HERO

[fr33]

Committing acts of terrorism, especially when innocent people are murdered, doesn't make you a hero.

Yep. You have to wear a uniform while doing it. :rolleyes:

[libertyjam]

seems like a different story if you only read the statist version of a "terrorist" plot.
once you realize it was out-of-control statist government leading to the decision to fight back, then the movie makes perfect sense with the guy reference.

before long, we will all wear the label terrorist(if you haven't earned your title yet)

It's not like the rebelling faction was any better, just wanting their own statist version subservient to Rome on the throne. Recall why the first daughter to sit on the throne before Elizabeth after Henry VIII, Queen Mary (Catholic), rightly earned the nickname "Bloody Mary".

[pcosmar]

It's not like the rebelling faction was any better, just wanting their own statist version subservient to Rome on the throne. Recall why the first daughter to sit on the throne before Elizabeth after Henry VIII, Queen Mary (Catholic), rightly earned the nickname "Bloody Mary".

Not saying they were.. In fact I wonder if it (the plot) wasn't instigated by church infiltrators in the first place and then exposed for political gain.
Guy Fawkes was the fall guy,, but there were many others involved.

Still,, it is one of those points,, those forks in the road,, that makes you wonder what if it had gone the other way.
Better? Worse? or would it have made any real difference?

[libertyjam]

I have to wonder how history might be different had they succeeded.

The English throne allied with Spain,
the Scots so pissed off there may have been an independent Scotland again,
maybe no systematic or as great a persecution of the Irish and to some extent the Welsh people, leading to either a greater unity of the Irish and English countries or an entire Irish independence, toss up. No Irish Famine.
All sorts of other ripples extending into colonialism effects that can be speculated on..
Or it could be that the Saxons could be relied upon to be such historic shits that not much would have changed just the names would be different.

[FrankRep]

Wintour introduced Fawkes to Robert Catesby, who planned to assassinate King James I and restore a Catholic monarch to the throne. The plotters secured the lease to an undercroft beneath the House of Lords, and Fawkes was placed in charge of the gunpowder they stockpiled there. Prompted by the receipt of an anonymous letter, the authorities searched Westminster Palace during the early hours of 5 November, and found Fawkes guarding the explosives. Over the next few days, he was questioned and tortured, and eventually he broke.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes

Hero, eh?

[better-dead-than-fed]

Committing acts of terrorism, especially when innocent people are murdered, doesn't make you a hero.

Are people born innocent by default, or are they born guilty?

If people are paying taxes to fund murder and other evil, what is innocent about them?

[pcosmar]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes

Hero, eh?
History is written by the victors.

Over the next few days, he was questioned and tortured, and eventually he broke.
Are you in favor of torture?

[FrankRep]

Are people born innocent by default, or are they born guilty?

If people are paying taxes to fund murder and other evil, what is innocent about them?

Are you being serious or just trolling?

[better-dead-than-fed]

he was questioned and tortured, and eventually, in an attempt to stop the torture by any means necessary, he broke claimed he was guilty...

[better-dead-than-fed]

Are you being serious or just trolling?

I am serious. Are you seriously asking whether I am trolling, or are you just bullying?

[FrankRep]

History is written by the victors.

Are you in favor of torture?

I've never promoted torture.

[FrankRep]

he was questioned and tortured, and eventually, in an attempt to stop the torture by any means necessary, he broke claimed he was guilty.


Guy Fawkes truther? That's a new one.

[better-dead-than-fed]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/justinesharrock/anonymous-secret-presence-in-the-us-army


How do you know who is in Anonymous?
Initially we have the handshaking phase. The lingo is still relatively unknown.

"Relatively unknown" as in the FBI does not know it, or as in the FBI does know it?


In conversation, you drop in jokes. If you are with someone on a mission, you’re like, “Man, there are over 9,000 reasons that this is a bad idea.” That initially establishes friendship. Once you feel comfortable with the person and they aren’t just posing as part of the culture, then you talk about what they’ve done and how much a part of it they are. It gets to the point where you are discussing individual operations.

And if the person you are working with is an FBI informant, this is the point at which you are discussing individual operations with an FBI informant.

[pcosmar]

Guy Fawkes truther? That's a new one.

I'm not sure the truth has been known..

Guy Fawkes is the Fall guy.. the legend and the face on a failed plot.
Not the instigator,, Certainly not the planer nor sole perpetrator.

That would be a Jesuit and a group of Co-conspirators. And now one is Pope.

"Vendetta" is a different story.

[Athan]

Well THIS THREAD HAS BEEN DERAILED.

[better-dead-than-fed]

Guy Fawkes truther? That's a new one.

If a "truther" is one who believes that claims elicited by torture are unreliable, then I am a "truther". Due process is not a troll, but it can be annoying to those who would sooner bypass it.

[Matthew5]

Seems like the NSA could ferret these Army Anonymous members out rather quickly. Given that their private communications are tracked so much.

[Christian Liberty]

How in the world does paying taxes that are extorted at gunpoint make you "Guilty"?

LOL!

Also:

Good luck, Annonymous...

[better-dead-than-fed]

How in the world does paying taxes that are extorted at gunpoint make you "Guilty"?

If an aggressor held you at gunpoint and ordered you to kill innocents, would you comply? Why wouldn't you resist?

Supposing there is an afterlife, what if God sent an aggressor to earth as a test? The aggressor held people at gunpoint and demanded they pay taxes to fund the murder of innocents. Those who resisted the aggressor might suffer consequences on earth, but they would be judged moral by God. Those who funded murder would be judged immoral by God and treated accordingly.

[twomp]

Those of you here complaining about a mask would probably be complaining if they wore a different mask. I see the mask as a representation of V who wore the mask in the movie V for Vendetta in which he stands up to the tyrants and blows up a building on GUY FAWKES day Novemeber 5th.

Of course there are some here who are regurgitating the MSM meme, "OMG look at their masks, they must be terrorists!" It's really no different than the MSM saying Edward Snowden, saying he's a traitor because he's in Russia and completely ignoring the NSA's crimes.

[torchbearer]

It's not like the rebelling faction was any better, just wanting their own statist version subservient to Rome on the throne. Recall why the first daughter to sit on the throne before Elizabeth after Henry VIII, Queen Mary (Catholic), rightly earned the nickname "Bloody Mary".

didn't say they were better,
making the point he wasn't blowing up innocent people.
his target was very specific, and it involved the people who were offending.

repeating history written by the statist who mocked him- doesn't impress me.

[Christian Liberty]

If an aggressor held you at gunpoint and ordered you to kill innocents, would you comply? Why wouldn't you resist?

Supposing there is an afterlife, what if God sent an aggressor to earth as a test? The aggressor held people at gunpoint and demanded they pay taxes to fund the murder of innocents. Those who resisted the aggressor might suffer consequences on earth, but they would be judged moral by God. Those who funded murder would be judged immoral by God and treated accordingly.

I'd say there'd be mitigated guilt in the former case, but some guilt nonetheless.

On the other hand, a robbery victim is just that, a VICTIM. Its the robber that is guilty for stealing that money and whatever he does with that.

[better-dead-than-fed]

If an aggressor held you at gunpoint and ordered you to kill innocents, would you comply?

I'd say there'd be mitigated guilt in the former case, but some guilt nonetheless.

Why wouldn't you resist?


... a robbery victim is just that, a VICTIM. Its the robber that is guilty for stealing that money and whatever he does with that.

Does being a victim relieve you of responsibility for your own choices? How could it be justified to choose to support murder, when you had the option of resisting? Supposing there is an afterlife, and God wants to know why you made the choice to support murder, how will you account to Him for your choice?

[Christian Liberty]

Why wouldn't you resist?


I would. I never said I wouldn't.



Does being a victim relieve you of responsibility for your own choices? How could it be justified to choose to support murder, when you had the option of resisting? Supposing there is an afterlife, and God wants to know why you made the choice to support murder, how will you account to Him for your choice?

I can only speak regarding what the Bible says. And while it does not necessarily teach (At least IMO, but a LOT of people disagree with me) that not paying taxes is per say wrong, Jesus also did pay a tax that he clearly didn't owe for pragmatic reasons.

Its not always as simple as you think it is.

Ultimately, the robbers are responsible for their crimes, blaming the victims for submitting is evil. Hypothetical scenarios don't change that.

[Carson]

Snip...


In conversation, you drop in jokes. If you are with someone on a mission, you’re like, “Man, there are over 9,000 reasons that this is a bad idea.” That initially establishes friendship. Once you feel comfortable with the person and they aren’t just posing as part of the culture, then you talk about what they’ve done and how much a part of it they are. It gets to the point where you are discussing individual operations.


And if the person you are working with is an FBI informant, this is the point at which you are discussing individual operations with an FBI informant.


You make an interesting point.

Let me take it a step further at the risk of making a false accusation. ( I saw this at lunch so let me try and remember how I wanted to word this.)

Perhaps the statement..;


In conversation, you drop in jokes. If you are with someone on a mission, you’re like, “Man, there are over 9,000 reasons that this is a bad idea.” That initially establishes friendship. Once you feel comfortable with the person and they aren’t just posing as part of the culture, then you talk about what they’ve done and how much a part of it they are. It gets to the point where you are discussing individual operations.

is what an informant, or operative, might say to suck people into a honeypot. They might also post some links to get you to click on that take you to websites that collect your IP Address (Like the links in the original quoted article!)

[better-dead-than-fed]

Its not always as simple as you think it is.

What do you know about what I think?


I can only speak regarding what the Bible says. And while it does not necessarily teach (At least IMO, but a LOT of people disagree with me) that not paying taxes is per say wrong, Jesus also did pay a tax that he clearly didn't owe for pragmatic reasons.

Is it evil to inquire into the role of pragmatism in morality? Seeing as how pragmatism could be used to justify murder? Did Jesus (according to the Bible) have reason to believe his tax payments would be used to support murder? What practical considerations justified his decision to pay the tax?



If an aggressor held you at gunpoint and ordered you to kill innocents, would you comply? Why wouldn't you resist?

I would [resist].

Why would you forego the pragmatic option in this case?

[better-dead-than-fed]

Jesus also did pay a tax that he clearly didn't owe for pragmatic reasons.

Are you referring to Jesus's payment of a temple tax? How does that justify a choice to support murder?

[pcosmar]

Are you referring to Jesus's payment of a temple tax? How does that justify a choice to support murder?
Not a temple tax. It was the Roman tax.
Matthew 22:17-22

7 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.

The temple tax, Matthew 17:22-27

24 When they had come to Capernaum,[b] those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, “Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?”

25 He said, “Yes.”

And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?”

26 Peter said to Him, “From strangers.”

Jesus said to him, “Then the sons are free. 27 Nevertheless, lest we offend them, go to the sea, cast in a hook, and take the fish that comes up first. And when you have opened its mouth, you will find a piece of money;[c] take that and give it to them for Me and you.”

[Aratus]

there was a LAST or two of gunpowder missing from the Royal armory
and Guy Fawkes had a lit 15 inch match on his person when standing next
to the 35 or 36 barrels of gunpowder very much akin to today's black powder.
he could have touched off the ton or so of gunpowder but instead he let
himself be wrestled down. had it all have gone off, a big hole results!!!

[Aratus]

i believe James I&VI personally put Guy Fawkes to the rack in the tower
and each tightening of the same was a 'hands on" fact finding expedition
that the sitting monarch micro-managed in a STAR CHAMBER manner!!!

[Aratus]

James I had to deal with a very real plot and reacted on a very personal level.
the U.K has had Guy Fawkes Day bonfires since the early 1600s. the "V" mask
is very deliberately a Guy Fawkes Day mask and thusly implies WHEN the hero
could go anywhere in the city in broad daylight sorta near sundown. the mask
and the anti~establishment message thusly has a link to the religious wars of
1500s & 1600s. The Tower and the Star Chamber apparatus is why we ban any
"cruel & unusual punishment" and the infamous religious wars of Europe are why
POTUS Jefferson liked the idea of a "wall of separation" between Church and State!

[Aratus]

the Gunpowder Plot in its day was very real and MAY HAVE included a few of the old hereditary nobles of the era into its ranks
but about 70 years later TITUS OATES turned informer and INVENTED a totally fictional plot focused on CHARLES THE SECOND
that actually got several of the king's favorite courtiers HANGED after riots broke out in the 1670s. Titus Oates LIED LIED LIED!

[Aratus]

Guy Fawkes died a horrible death and was only seconds away from committing an act of terrorism.
he let himself be wrestled down and dragged to the Tower of London!!!! Duckies, that mask is not
a minor prop, Goofy or Donald Duck or Mickey Mouse could have sufficed but anything Walt Disney
was avoided! or even a POTUS mask or the like, indeedy yes! for more than 400 years there have
been masks worn that are a loose caricature of Guy Fawkes's features, an' there have been bonfires!

[Aratus]

one theory about GUY FAWKES is that he like CHRISTOPHER MARLOWE may have been recruited to totally spy on the realm's dissidents
but unlike the playwright who sadly dies in a very covert and suspicious manner after traveling across the channel, Mr. Fawkes may have
turned on the gov't and died protecting a group of "home grown" dissidents who somehow got more than a ton of gunpowder together.
the Royal archives for the Crown have a missing page or two. Either the gunpowder came from the Tower or it didn't. it begs a big Q!!!
there was indeedy a cover-up and although some scholars opine on connections to foreign gov'ts + monarchs, King James may have had
a rather large plot right underneath him, because someone could have set Guy Fawkes up in a big way expecting a mass hysteria to follow!

[puppetmaster]

Well THIS THREAD HAS BEEN DERAILED.
Not really....the main picture is that of the vendetta mask. So discussion is prudent. Carry on

[pcosmar]

Not really....the main picture is that of the vendetta mask. So discussion is prudent. Carry on

The mask is just a symbol of anonymity.

As opposed to a mask of some present political figure (Bush,Obama, Nixon) or a ski mask,, (a criminal thug) or some comical mask (Micky Mouse).
It became popular after the Movie "V for Vendetta", not because of Guy Fawkes,, but for the character V. (seen as hero)

It is/has become the symbol of anonymity.

[jllundqu]

Committing acts of terrorism, especially when innocent people are murdered, doesn't make you a hero.

Bingo! Plus Fawkes wanted to install a theocracy once he finished off the parliament. NO THANKS!!

[Aratus]

i had assumed he only would have dropped the long lit 15 inch match onto all the gunpowder had the kynge been over his head!!!
i feel he knew he could have destroyed half the parliament building that day very easily with the high quality gunpowder on hand!

[Aratus]

i feel anything & everything can be read into all his actions.
he knew that many people ended up on the infamous rack.
he did not kill himself, instead he dies a most painful death.

[torchbearer]

thanks for the history Aratus.
wish more people would read it.

[better-dead-than-fed]

Not a temple tax. It was the Roman tax.
Matthew 22:17-22

7 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?

18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.


It is still making the choice to support murder, even when Jesus does it.

[jmdrake]

Well THIS THREAD HAS BEEN DERAILED.

Okay. Back to the thread. So Anonymous helped the Arab spring? Is that really a good thing? Th Arab Spring seems tho have helped the globalists.

[fr33]

Okay. Back to the thread. So Anonymous helped the Arab spring? Is that really a good thing? Th Arab Spring seems tho have helped the globalists.

I can see why someone might say that. At this point it's all speculation. One could make the argument that the Arab Spring is proving that all that foreign aid and intervention does not equate to influence like we've been told. Most of it's been wasted.