Big Brother can now name your children

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

http://news.yahoo.com/tenn-judge-changes-infants-name-messiah-215423538.html


NEWPORT, Tenn. (AP) — A judge in Tennessee changed a 7-month-old boy's name to Martin from Messiah, saying the religious name was earned by one person and "that one person is Jesus Christ."

Child Support Magistrate Lu Ann Ballew ordered the name change last week, according to WBIR-TV (http://on.wbir.com/1cDOeTY). The boy's parents were in court because they could not agree on the child's last name, but when the judge heard the boy's first name, she ordered it changed, too.

"It could put him at odds with a lot of people and at this point he has had no choice in what his name is," Ballew said.

It was the first time she ordered a first name change, the judge said.

Messiah was No. 4 among the fastest-rising baby names in 2012, according to the Social Security Administration's annual list of popular baby names.

The judge in eastern Tennessee said the baby was to be named Martin DeShawn McCullough, which includes both parents' last name.

The boy's mother, Jaleesa Martin, of Newport, said she will appeal. She says Messiah is unique and she liked how it sounded alongside the boy's two siblings — Micah and Mason.

"Everybody believes what they want so I think I should be able to name my child what I want to name him, not someone else," Martin said.

Ballew said the name Messiah could cause problems if the child grows up in Cocke County, which has a large Christian population.

"The word Messiah is a title and it's a title that has only been earned by one person and that one person is Jesus Christ," the judge said.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

bump

[Ender]

So, where in the Constitution does it give this judge the right to change a baby's name?

[eduardo89]

So, where in the Constitution does it give this judge the right to change a baby's name?

10th Amendment.

[heavenlyboy34]

10th Amendment.
Yup. Another failure of teh Constitution.

[Ender]

10th Amendment.

Uh...no.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

Tennessee has no law in place that says it can dictate personal names.

[fr33]

We need a separation of church and state obviously.

[eduardo89]

Uh...no.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

Tennessee has no law in place that says it can dictate personal names.

You never asked which state law gives the judge this power, you asked what part of the Constitution allows this.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

We need a separation of church and state obviously.

I think we need a separation of state and us.

[FrankRep]

Yup. Another failure of teh Constitution.
The Federal Government should have complete and total control? Sound good to you?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

From the article: "Ballew said the name Messiah could cause problems if the child grows up in Cocke County, which has a large Christian population."

I guess as opposed to the problem of some knucklehead who tells you what to name your kids.

************************************************** ***********

Okay, now let's hear some Cocke County jokes. :eek::p:D

[FrankRep]

More information...


Tenn. judge changes infant's name from 'Messiah'
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/11/baby-name-messiah-tennessee/2641313/


A Tennessee mother is appealing a court's decision after a judge ordered her son's name be changed from "Messiah."

Jaleesa Martin and the father of Messiah could not agree on a last name, which is how they ended up at a child support hearing in Cocke County Chancery Court on Thursday.

That is when the first name came into question.
...

However, Martin is appealing the judge's decision. It will go before the Cocke County Chancellor on Sept. 17.

[Ender]

You never asked which state law gives the judge this power, you asked what part of the Constitution allows this.

Again:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

The 10th does not allow this- and Tennessee has not taken upon itself this "power".

[eduardo89]

Again:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

The 10th does not allow this- and Tennessee has not taken upon itself this "power".

Under the 10th Amendment Tennessee can pass a law saying that judges have the power to name children.

All you asked was "So, where in the Constitution does it give this judge the right to change a baby's name?" The answer is the 10th Amendment. The federal government has not been delegated this power, so it rests with the states.

[FrankRep]

Again:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

The 10th does not allow this- and Tennessee has not taken upon itself this "power".


The Judge gave a bad ruling and there's a repeal hearing soon.


Martin is appealing the judge's decision. It will go before the Cocke County Chancellor on Sept. 17.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/11/baby-name-messiah-tennessee/2641313/

[FrankRep]

Under the 10th Amendment Tennessee can pass a law saying that judges have the power to name children.

All you asked was "So, where in the Constitution does it give this judge the right to change a baby's name?" The answer is the 10th Amendment. The federal government has not been delegated this power, so it rests with the states.

The Judge gave a bad ruling and there's a repeal hearing soon.


Martin is appealing the judge's decision. It will go before the Cocke County Chancellor on Sept. 17.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/11/baby-name-messiah-tennessee/2641313/

[eduardo89]

The Judge gave a bad ruling and there's a repeal hearing soon.

I agree. But what the Judge did in no way violated the federal constitution.

[FrankRep]

I agree. But what the Judge did in no way violated the federal constitution.

Tennessee's checks and balances will now kick in. I doubt the ruling will stand. The Constitution chains the Federal Government, not the states, true.

[eduardo89]

The State's checks and balances will now kick in. I doubt the ruling will stand. The Constitution chains the Federal Government, not the states.

Again, I agree. I was responding to Ender's claim that this is unconstitutional.

[FrankRep]

Again, I agree. I was responding to Ender's claim that this is unconstitutional.

Ender and you should stop fighting, Martin is appealing the judge's decision (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/11/baby-name-messiah-tennessee/2641313/).

Any more fighting is just silly.

[eduardo89]

Ender and you should stop fighting, Martin is appealing the judge's decision (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/11/baby-name-messiah-tennessee/2641313/).

Any more fighting is just silly.

Fighting?

[pcosmar]

The Federal Government should have complete and total control? Sound good to you?

NO. Idiot

THE PEOPLE have the power.
In this case the parents. It is in No way a judges purview to do so.

[pcosmar]

Again, I agree. I was responding to Ender's claim that this is unconstitutional.

It is. There is nothing that allows a judge to override a parents choice in name for a child.

10 amendment does not allow that.. Nothing in the constitution does.

[FrankRep]

NO. Idiot

THE PEOPLE have the power.
In this case the parents. It is in No way a judges purview to do so.

The Constitution was blamed for the Judge's stupid ruling. I have a problem with that.



10th Amendment.

Yup. Another failure of teh Constitution.

[heavenlyboy34]

edit: dupe

[mad cow]

The Hispanic population of Tennessee is ~300,000.The odds one of them is not named Jesus are pretty much nil.

Don't tell the Judge.

[heavenlyboy34]

The Constitution was blamed for the Judge's stupid ruling. I have a problem with that.
No, the Constitution (federal and state) was "blamed" for not restraining the judge, and rightly so.

[fr33]

Nobody has made the obvious observation and I haven't taken the time to find the racial stats of this judge's jurisdiction but hello? Are there any Mexicans living there? I know more Jesuses than I know Johns.

[pcosmar]

The Constitution was blamed for the Judge's stupid ruling. I have a problem with that.

No it wasn't,,
A question was asked,, and a wrong answer was given.

So, where in the Constitution does it give this judge the right to change a baby's name?

The correct answer is NO WHERE.
And the judge should be removed (by the people) for ever ruling in such a stupid manner.

The tenth amendment does not give this power. Nor does it give the power to violate any other rights. in the Bill of Rights.
It gives the state the power to set ordinances as long as the rights of the people are not infringed.
And states that the final power resides with the PEOPLE.

[Matthew5]

Should just change it to "Massa" if it's going to be like that then.

[mad cow]

Nobody has made the obvious observation and I haven't taken the time to find the racial stats of this judge's jurisdiction but hello? Are there any Mexicans living there? I know more Jesuses than I know Johns.

4.6% of 6,456,XXX according to Wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Tennessee#Demographics

[fr33]

4.6% of 6,456,XXX according to Wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Tennessee#Demographics

Wow. Tennessee is like a different country to me. :D

[eduardo89]

Nobody has made the obvious observation and I haven't taken the time to find the racial stats of this judge's jurisdiction but hello? Are there any Mexicans living there? I know more Jesuses than I know Johns.

I don't know but TN is on the shortlist of states this Mexican is open to moving to in the very near future.

[Ender]

Ender and you should stop fighting, Martin is appealing the judge's decision (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/11/baby-name-messiah-tennessee/2641313/).

Any more fighting is just silly.

We're not fighting- just disagreeing- I like eduardo89. :)

[TheTexan]

Yup. Another failure of teh Constitution.

indeed

[eduardo89]

indeed

So you and HB believe that the federal constitution should have a clause saying state judges can't rename children?

[fr33]

So you and HB believe that the federal constitution should have a clause saying state judges can't rename children?

You think any government has the right to name or rename you?

[heavenlyboy34]

So you and HB believe that the federal constitution should have a clause saying state judges can't rename children?
Damn, you're really into mental gymnastics tonight. Where the hell did this absolutely stupid bullshit come from?

[oyarde]

From the article: "Ballew said the name Messiah could cause problems if the child grows up in Cocke County, which has a large Christian population."

I guess as opposed to the problem of some knucklehead who tells you what to name your kids.

************************************************** ***********

Okay, now let's hear some Cocke County jokes. :eek::p:D

Is this Judge a Cock County native ? Is he really a Cock , or just impersonating a Cock ?

[heavenlyboy34]

I don't know but TN is on the shortlist of states this Mexican is open to moving to in the very near future.
They're letting you in? :eek: Mothers in TN, hide your daughters!

[fr33]

Reliving the past.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGTYBbcEvHg

[oyarde]

I don't know but TN is on the shortlist of states this Mexican is open to moving to in the very near future.

Well my Son in Law is just North and he could always use some help with tobbaco harvest...

[TheTexan]

So you and HB believe that the federal constitution should have a clause saying state judges can't rename children?

It would be better if the 10th amendment reserved all other rights to the people. And not the states.

And yes, that would make having "states" kind of pointless. Which is why it would also be better, if there was no Federal Government, and merely an agreement among states, but shrug.

[eduardo89]

It would be better if the 10th amendment reserved all other rights to the people. And not the states.

And yes, that would make having "states" kind of pointless. Which is why it would also be better, if there was no Federal Government, and merely an agreement among states, but shrug.

I mostly agree with the latter point. Federalism has been a failure. A confederacy would have been much better.

[eduardo89]

Damn, you're really into mental gymnastics tonight. Where the hell did this absolutely stupid bullshit come from?

Woah! HB! Watch the language or your mom is going to go down into that basement and wash your mouth out with soap.

[mad cow]

If naming your own gosh darn children isn't covered by the Ninth Amendment,I don't know what,if anything,is.

[heavenlyboy34]

Woah! HB! Watch the language or your mom is going to go down into that basement and wash your mouth out with soap.
I learned a lot of that sort of language from my mother many moons ago. :P While we're on the subject, you, JFK3, amypi, and I should have a sleepover in your mother's basement sometime. :D You just need to move your bed and toys a little so's I can lay out my sleeping bag. :cool:
ETA: I've been notified that Angelatc wants to come to the slumber party too, so she shall get an invite.

[pcosmar]

So you and HB believe that the federal constitution should have a clause saying state judges can't rename children?

The Constitution was set up originally to limit government. ALL Government.
There is nothing there,,and I don't think stupidity like this was even foreseen.

If I could change the Constitution I would make parts of it even more clearly defined (though it seems clear and simple enough) and add penalties,,severe penalties on any government employees or elected official that violates or proposes to violate either letter or spirit of it.

[jkob]

Can't imagine this will hold up

[UWDude]

Jesus, what about all the people named Jesus?

[TheTexan]

Jesus, what about all the people named Jesus?

Is that how it's spelled? I always thought it was Heyzeus

[heavenlyboy34]

Is that how it's spelled? I always thought it was Heyzeus
Yup. A pretty common name, too. Jesus Lobos-Cobos is a very famous contemporary guitarist. :cool:

[TheTexan]

Yup. A pretty common name, too. Jesus Lobos-Cobos is a very famous contemporary guitarist. :cool:

Yep. Jesus mows my lawn. Nice guy

[eduardo89]

Is that how it's spelled? I always thought it was Heyzeus

It's not pronounced like that. It's pronounced Heh-soos (with a throaty h)

[Mani]

I met a guy named Mohammed once...and a guy named Jesus, man he could play the guitar......



Holy Cow, if those names are entitled to only one person...There's like a couple billion people that need name changes... Tell the Cocke Judge to get busy with a baby name encyclopedia.

[DamianTV]

So, where in the Constitution does it give this judge the right to change a baby's name?

Not a Name, but a Number. SSN. Drivers License (well, same exact number there just mixed up a bit). Customer Number. Pick what ever you want. They ALL uniquely identify the individual.

[Weston White]

I would tend to disagree:

The court violated its own procedural rules in addressing a matter not before the court, i.e., whose last name it was going to take.

It mingled religion as the underlying basis of the courts determination, i.e., you are naming your little black baby the Messiah—Jesus Christ over my dead body!

The court violated those parent’s civil rights in several respects, i.e., exemplifying that the family unit is nothing but a bonded serf unto the state.

[Weston White]

Jesus, what about all the people named Jesus?

Hey there now... Nobody messes wit da Jesus!


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_6kMIcbYRLJE/TUcg2auy8OI/AAAAAAAAAKM/dcHlwgZ7ydw/s320/john-turturro-as-jesus-quintana1.jpg

[Sola_Fide]

We need a separation of church and state obviously.

This has nothing to do with that.

[Cap]

This judges edict in fact looks to be at odds with the 1st amendment. Therefore unconstitutional.

[specsaregood]

Can't imagine this will hold up

Well, that is little comfort for a family that now must spend its time dealing with it and hope for a reversal in the court system. The judge should be removed or have to pay them for their time in having to fight something that never should have been done in the first place.

[fr33]

This has nothing to do with that.

I wouldn't say it has nothing to do with it. Obviously the judge is a theocratic nut regardless of wether he interprets the bible like you do.

[TruckinMike]

For those of you that don't consider naming a child messiah a bit odd or ridiculous -- Then you most certainly would like the name "Your Highness", King, Princess, Prince, Chief, Head Cook, waitress, plumber, President, Your Majesty, or GOD.

There is a difference between Jesus and 'Messiah'. Jesus is a name, messiah is a title. -->Just like the Judge said. The only problem that I have with the judge is that she is not a KING or Queen or God but somehow thinks and acts as if she is. She needs to be tarred, feathered, and thrown from the bench.

Really, I'm not kidding. If we continue to allow these legal perverts to remain at the judicial helm; hell will soon follow.

[otherone]

For those of you that don't consider naming a child messiah a bit odd or ridiculous -- Then you most certainly would like the name "Your Highness", King, Princess, Prince, Chief, Head Cook, waitress, plumber, President, Your Majesty, or GOD.


off hand:
King
Queen
Duke
Prince
Earl
Marshall
lol..."plumber"...how about "Hunter"? Had a neighbor name her kids "Madison" and "Monroe"...she didn't realize they were presidents...

[Ender]

This judges edict in fact looks to be at odds with the 1st amendment. Therefore unconstitutional.

Absolutely!

Congress shall make no law regarding religion.

This judge has no legal right to change a child's name and especially in regards to the judge's particular religious opinion.

[TonySutton]

The government can call him whatever they want I guess, but then so can the parents ;) how many people out there go by a nickname even though their birth certificate says something different, quite a bit different in some cases.

[kcchiefs6465]

The government can call him whatever they want I guess, but then so can the parents ;) how many people out there go by a nickname even though their birth certificate says something different, quite a bit different in some cases.
That is besides the point.

Slaves were called whatever their masters wanted as well.

[TonySutton]

That is besides the point.

Slaves were called whatever their masters wanted as well.

Which is why you have a SSN ;)

[angelatc]

This has nothing to do with that.

Yes, it actually did. The state's judge said that there could only be one Messiah, and this kid wasn't Him.

[heavenlyboy34]

This judges edict in fact looks to be at odds with the 1st amendment. Therefore unconstitutional.
That's never stopped them before. :( (criminals don't obey laws)

[presence]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByhFz5e5Tno

[catfeathers]

off hand:
King
Queen
Duke
Prince
Earl
Marshall
lol..."plumber"...how about "Hunter"? Had a neighbor name her kids "Madison" and "Monroe"...she didn't realize they were presidents...

I knew of a woman named "King" and several "Earls". I went to school with a "Duke" and a "Colonel". I've heard of a "Baron", I think it might have been spelled with two Rs, though. And my husband is friends with "Jesus".

[Dr.3D]

I can think of a couple of appropriate names for that judge.

[Legend1104]

Agree that the name is a real bonehead move. Agree that Messiah is a title and not really a name. As a Christian I agree that really only one person deserves that title (Jesus). Agree that the child will have a tough time in life and may consider changing it in the future. Disagree that the judge has the power to change it. I would just tell the judge no.

[heavenlyboy34]

Agree that the name is a real bonehead move. Agree that Messiah is a title and not really a name. As a Christian I agree that really only one person deserves that title (Jesus). Agree that the child will have a tough time in life and may consider changing it in the future. Disagree that the judge has the power to change it. I would just tell the judge no.
Messiah is an English rendering of the Hebrew "mashiach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashiach)". So, the judge's opinion is not really well-founded. /ramble

[Christian Liberty]

No, the Constitution (federal and state) was "blamed" for not restraining the judge, and rightly so.

If its a state judge, its not FedGov's business in any capacity.

All that said, I honestly found this story somewhat amusing. Obviously ridiculous, but nonetheless amusing.

[Christian Liberty]

So you and HB believe that the federal constitution should have a clause saying state judges can't rename children?


Damn, you're really into mental gymnastics tonight. Where the hell did this absolutely stupid bullshit come from?



OK....

I don't believe any government has the right to tell that parent what to name their kid.

I don't believe the Federal government has a right to tell Tennessee that they don't have a right to tell that parent what to name their kid.

Does that make sense?

Much like I tell people sometimes: I don't believe any government has a right to legalize the murder of the unborn, but I don't support the Federal Government telling the states they can't do so.

Or: I don't think any government has a right to murder Jews, but I still don't think we should have gone to war in Nazi Germany.

[heavenlyboy34]

If its a state judge, its not FedGov's business in any capacity.

All that said, I honestly found this story somewhat amusing. Obviously ridiculous, but nonetheless amusing.
On paper, that's correct. However, as long as the various states accept federal money in any form, they will be beholden to the Feds or the funds will be cut off (politically very dangerous to turn down FedMoney and almost guaranteed that it's not going to happen).

[Neil Desmond]

It's actually a case of the state respecting an establishment of religion and perhaps prohibiting the free exercise thereof. This judge is trying to use the power of the state to impose religious beliefs on someone else by saying that the parents can't name their child with a name that to the judge is religiously sacred. What if this couple are members of a religion that mandates that they name their child Messiah? It doesn't matter if they actually are or aren't. The point is that it would be prohibiting the free exercise thereof if they did happen to be a member of such a religion.

According to Wikipedia, in the Tennessee Declaration of Rights, "Establishment of a state religion is banned and personal freedom of religion is inviolate (Section 3)."

[Christian Liberty]

On paper, that's correct. However, as long as the various states accept federal money in any form, they will be beholden to the Feds or the funds will be cut off (politically very dangerous to turn down FedMoney and almost guaranteed that it's not going to happen).

Yeah, this is just legalized bribery to me as well. Stop taxing me and then you can tell me about cutting funds, otherwise you're just robbing me.

I don't think the 10th amendment is a flaw in this case. Stupidity is, but not the 10th.

[Paulbot99]

Seriously?

I'm religious and I can handle someone being named Messiah. I don't know anyone who would want names changed for religious reasons through government force.

[Dr.3D]

I wonder if the judge would have a problem with someone being named, "President."
Edit: I can think of a lot of fun first names.

Captain
Chief
Doc
Professor
Senator
Governor
Major
Key (if your last name happens to be West)
Pot (if your last name happens to be Holder)
ect.

[MichaelDavis]

The First Amendment's Establishment Clause states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." This judge definitely overstepped her boundaries and should be fired. She has no right to change the baby's name because of her religious views.

[JCDenton0451]

It wasn't some "Big Brother". The woman was a fundamentalist Christian.


We need a separation of church and state obviously.

This.

[tommyrp12]

Child Support Magistrate Lu Ann Ballew ordered the name change last week, according to WBIR-TV (http://on.wbir.com/1cDOeTY). The boy's parents were in court because they could not agree on the child's last name, but when the judge heard the boy's first name, she ordered it changed, too.


they went there to decide the kids name and got what they asked for. don't ask "judges" for anything .I do have sympathy for them and the child though, its not right.

[heavenlyboy34]

I wonder if the judge would have a problem with someone being named, "President."
Edit: I can think of a lot of fun first names.

Captain
Chief
Doc
Professor
Senator
Governor
Major
Key (if your last name happens to be West)
Pot (if your last name happens to be Holder)

My college band director went by Doc (wasn't his real name tho). :) Fun guy and good trumpeter.:toady:

[Ender]

It wasn't some "Big Brother". The woman was a fundamentalist Christian.



This.

Separation of Church & State is not in the Constitution. The First Amendment is: Congress shall make no law concerning religion.

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

[Snew]

I had to revisit this thread because of a Fark headline of the year candidate (http://www.fark.com/comments/8058754)

lol! that's gold!

[moostraks]

Judge cited with violations in baby Messiah case
http://www.wbir.com/story/news/local/hamblen-jefferson-cocke-greene/2013/10/25/baby-messiah-judge-cited/3185849/


Another judge later overruled Ballew's decision and said she had acted unconstitutionally. By then, the baby's parents had filed a complaint against Ballew with the Board of Judicial Conduct.

The state board's charges allege Ballew did not promote confidence in the judiciary or uphold the law without bias or partiality through her actions.

Ballew now has 30 days to answer the board's charges, according to the documents filed in the case. Once she responds, the board will hold a hearing on the case within 60 days.

Good. Better is Judge is removed from the bench.

[HOLLYWOOD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT1nGjGM2p8#t=50

[PierzStyx]

We need a separation of church and state obviously.

Its got nothing to do with religion. Courts took the children away from a white supremacist family because they named their kids Adolf Hitler and Aryan Nation. (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4394460,00.html)

[tommyrp12]

The parents asked the judge to rename their kid. So he did . They just don't like the result, I would suggest that they stop asking human traffickers/filth, to resolve all of life's problems, hindsight is 20/20 but seriously call your kid whatever you want, their name belongs to them am i correct ? then why ask for permission to use it ? I think these are important questions to ask.

[DamianTV]

I think we need a separation of state and us.

One things for sure. What we have is a Separation of Court and Law.