I had my first angry citizen get on me for my council votes...

[Michael Landon]

Before I get into the story of what he was upset about, I'll need to recap the situation he referred to.

A couple of months ago, we had two votes that dealt with the liquor store that the city owns.

The first vote was to hire a new full time employee, the vote went 4-1 with my vote being the opposing vote. At the time, I stated my view that I didn't believe the city should own a liquor store and that the taxpayers shouldn't have their money taken out of their pockets and invested in a business that belongs in the private sector. I said that I found it to be a conflict of interest when the city determines who can or can't have liquor licenses all the while owning their own liquor store. One of the other councilors tried to explain to me that the city needed to own the store so we could control the amount of liquor being sold and I laughed and said that there are literally dozens of liquor stores in the neighboring bigger cities within minutes from our town and it is absurd to think that we are somehow controlling the amount of liquor people consume. I went on to say that I my vote against this hiring wasn't personal against the person being hired but rather my disagreement with the city owning a liquor store.

The second vote was a few meetings later, and was to spending close to $150,000 to build onto the existing store so we could expand our selection of liquors and increase our sales. I know, this goes against everything I just said in the prior paragraph, if the city needs to own a liquor store to control the amount of liquor sold, why would we increase it's size? Anyway, once again I went into detail explaining that I didn't think we should be spending the taxpayer's money on a business the city has no reason to be in. The vote went 4-1 to approve the spending, with me being the lone vote against it.

Fast forward to today...

I was taking my work break at a local gas station, buying some lemonade and almonds, when a gentleman ahead of me in line turns and says "why did you vote against hiring me?" I wasn't sure who he was at first and said, "what?" He repeated his question and then I realized that he was the guy the council hired for the liquor store, at this point I said that it wasn't anything personal and before I could get into explaining why I voted against hiring him, he turned his back on me. So I tried talking to his back to explain my opposition to the city owning a liquor store, he said that it was personal, to which I replied that it wasn't anything personal against him. I again tried to explain my position on the liquor store and he turned his back towards me. So I figured we were done and he turned toward me and asked if the liquor store makes a profit? As I was about to answer he turned away again. At this point I was getting irritable with him disrespecting me. I said that the liquor store makes a little profit. He then turns toward me again and says, "you vote against everything in this town!" I said, to his back, "not everything." He replied, "yes, you do, look at your record! You vote against everything!" I told him to look at my record and he'll see that I don't vote against everything. He quit talking and I walked to the back of the line.

I find it funny that someone who has never attended a single city council meeting that I've been a part of, can say as a matter of fact, how I vote.

Every time, I vote against something I go into great detail explaining why I'm voting the way I am. I do this so everyone can understand why I oppose it.

Apparently, city councilors are supposed to vote in favor of every item on the agenda, regardless of whether or not it's right. If that's the kind of councilor this gentleman wants, then I suggest he vote for someone else next time. I vote based on my principles and if I stand alone, so be it.

- ML

[Brian4Liberty]

Big government begins at home, doesn't it?

So many people want money and favors from the government, and so many in government love to give away other people's money.

Good work on those votes and explanations!

[Carson]

About time. :D

[mosquitobite]

At least you are in good company Michael.

Most of them hate Ron Paul. They hated Jesus as well.

Truth and logic is painful.

[pcosmar]

The first vote was to hire a new full time employee, the vote went 4-1 with my vote being the opposing vote.

- ML
Well the vote passed to hire the guy.. what is his gripe?

[Kotin]

Thanks for posting this!

[otherone]

Keep up the good work, ML.

[CPUd]

Has anyone in the local paper griped about you yet?

[Matt Collins]

Which city is this?

[easycougar]

Great job standing your ground and doing your best to explain to the guy. That jerk didn't deserve your vote anyway...you should have told him to get a real job that doesn't steal from the local taxpayers.

+rep

[Michael Landon]

Has anyone in the local paper griped about you yet?

Only once, but that was before I became a councilor. Since then, I've had many people come up to me and thank me for questioning the rest of the council and challenging them on things.

- ML

[torchbearer]

Is it ever moral to take money from your neighbor by force?

[Michael Landon]

Which city is this?

Proctor, Minnesota.

- ML

[Michael Landon]

Is it ever moral to take money from your neighbor by force?

No.

- ML

[otherone]

Only once, but that was before I became a councilor. Since then, I've had many people come up to me and thank me for questioning the rest of the council and challenging them on things.

- ML

Screw that loser. These idiotic councils rubber stamp anything that gets put in front of them by the good 'ol boys club. I'm happy someone speaks for seniors and others who are trying to hold onto their homes despite the machinations of a group of petty tyrants who think it's their job to spend someone else's hard-earned money.

[torchbearer]

No.

- ML

maybe i misunderstand the situation.
is the city corporation expropriating funds from the people in its jurisdiction to run an alcohol store?

[Cleaner44]

+rep

Being Dr. No can be a lonely job. Keep up the good work!

[Michael Landon]

maybe i misunderstand the situation.
is the city corporation expropriating funds from the people in its jurisdiction to run an alcohol store?

Yes.

- ML

[torchbearer]

Yes.

- ML

Do you think the people who are being expropriating understand this situation in these terms and are ok with it?

[kathy88]

Your title is wrong. He is not an angry citizen. He is angry government tit sucker. Big difference.

[brushfire]

You should have Mark rough him up, and then throw him into the trunk of his Ford LTD. Then take him for a ride on the "highway to heaven".

Really, that's the thing about public office. You're always pi$$ing off someone. I cant imagine the kind of stuff Dr Paul had to endure... Anyhow, it probably bothers you, but you cant let it. You're a good man for not losing your cool and simply explaining - at least you gave the guy a response. Some of my politicians just feed me a line of crap, or avoid me all together.

[fr33]

You are on the front lines for liberty in that situation. Thank you for your service.

[Occam's Banana]

[...] I know, this goes against everything I just said in the prior paragraph, [...]

Having to deal with people who "think" like that as a routine part of my job is why I could never possibly "make it" in politics.

ML, you are made of much sterner stuff than I am. (Or maybe you're just a masochist ... ;))

[jbauer]

Well the vote passed to hire the guy.. what is his gripe?

only 4 gold stars on his report card not 5. plus he's probably buddies with someone on the board and that's how he got the "no vote" information and the offer of the job in the first place.

[Icymudpuppy]

Similar situation in my town.

We have two liberty council members of 7 total. Recently there was a vote to build and hire for a public swimming pool. There is already a private swimming pool in town.

Guess who everybody gets mad at? The two nay voters.

I was one of very few who supported our dissenting voters on fiscal grounds.

Keep in mind that this city is one that also votes 70% republican. Statism is a disease, and it is rampant.

[presence]

Do you keep a blog that lists how and why you voted?

[lib3rtarian]

Stay strong and encourage other liberty folks to join the council so that you don't look like the lone crazy person.

[CT4Liberty]

logged in just to +rep ... keep it up, we only need a few million more like you across the country and maybe we can salvage this great nation...

[69360]

You should have stopped talking at "it's nothing personal" when he turned his back on you. You escalated the situation.

Just let things go.

[limequat]

You should have stopped talking at "it's nothing personal" when he turned his back on you. You escalated the situation.

Just let things go.

Yeah, but the guy was asking him questions. It would have been rude to ignore him.

[pcosmar]

only 4 gold stars on his report card not 5. plus he's probably buddies with someone on the board and that's how he got the "no vote" information and the offer of the job in the first place.
That thought had crossed my mind. along with the convoluted reasoning for the town owning the store in the first place.
and then expanding it in contradiction.

This might be something to look a little deeper into (quietly). Who is connected to who? and what is going on behind the rhetoric?
It does sound fishy.

[georgiaboy]

great votes, great responses in a spur of the moment conversation.

Deepest respect.

[juleswin]

Good for you. I bet he expected you to run and hide when he confronted you but when you decided to explain to him your very sensible vote, he took off running :)

[TonySutton]

When he said you always vote no you should have said that is not correct, I voted to double the property tax :P

[Neil Desmond]

Seems like this guy was all over the place. Did he want to discuss being the candidate who was hired for the position? Did he want to discuss your opposition to the creation of the employee position? Or, did he want to discuss your voting record & political positions?

Well, whatever the case, here's the lesson learned: since he's apparently approaching you as a city employee who wants to discuss his employment, perhaps you should have not responded to his inquiry at that point in time, and instead told him that if he wants to discuss his job, that he needs to schedule a meeting with you in your office, where that kind of thing would be more appropriate. A city resident discussing political issues or city business with you is one thing, but this sounds potentially more like it could be a personnel issue.

I'm not saying be stern with someone like him when asking him to discuss it in your office or anything like that, I simply mean that you could politely say something like "I'd be happy to discuss this issue with you to find out what your concerns are and see what I can do to address them, but in my office," give him your card, and maybe even ask him, "When may I expect you?" (so he won't think you're just trying to brush him off).

That way people like him can't just do things like turn their backs on you or get into arguments when you're probably not prepared to deal with them; and in your office you'd be in a better position and better prepared to talk to someone like him. People would also probably also be a little more calmed down by then, more receptive and open to discussing their problems or concerns with you, and perhaps a little more satisfied that you're willing to listen and talk to them. Or, if it was feasible for you in that situation, rather than telling him to schedule an appointment, maybe you could've told him that he could stop by your office after you were done with your break.

[Tod]

Next thing you know, they'll be wanting to get into the titty bar business.

[osan]

I hope you carry a gun everywhere you go.

If not, you'd damned better start, and I am not joking.

[bunklocoempire]

Big government begins at home, doesn't it?

So many people want money and favors from the government, and so many in government love to give away other people's money.

Good work on those votes and explanations!

That part is what I try to relate to folks.

"You want stuff from government? Okay, me too. I'm going to get together with a bunch of people and we're going to figure out a way to legally take your things -we'll take all of your things if you don't resist."

Mob theft seems to be perfectly acceptable if I'm part of the mob. When the mob is coming after me however...

Way to do L'Étoile du Nord proud M.L.!:)

[Koz]

ML, I wish you were my township trustee

[Anti Federalist]

I hope you carry a gun everywhere you go.

If not, you'd damned better start, and I am not joking.

/comment winner.

+rep to you and ML.

I can honestly say ML: Thank you for your service.

[osan]

I can honestly say ML: Thank you for your service.

Yeah, I forgot that part.

Same here, FWIW.

[nobody's_hero]

Reminds me of an old quote:

When government fears the people, that is liberty. Except when the people who scare the government don't actually want liberty, but just want government jobs. I mean, that's just f*cked up. --- Thomas Jefferson

[Michael Landon]

Do you think the people who are being expropriating understand this situation in these terms and are ok with it?

The citizens seem pretty oblivious to the inner workings of the city council, so I doubt most even realize that the liquor store is owned and operated by the city. If they do know, they must be okay with it because I haven't heard of anyone petitioning the council to sell it.

- ML

[pcosmar]

The citizens seem pretty oblivious to the inner workings of the city council, so I doubt most even realize that the liquor store is owned and operated by the city. If they do know, they must be okay with it because I haven't heard of anyone petitioning the council to sell it.

- ML
Who petitioned them to open it?

[Michael Landon]

Do you keep a blog that lists how and why you voted?

No, I don't. I probably should.

- ML

[Michael Landon]

You should have stopped talking at "it's nothing personal" when he turned his back on you. You escalated the situation.

Just let things go.

He kept asking me questions, it would have been rude of me to ignore him.

- ML

[GunnyFreedom]

Good job! :D

I actually had a leftwingnut standing outside my County Convention with a sign protesting how dangerous my agenda was, and got death threats over my opposition to the marriage amendment.

[Michael Landon]

I hope you carry a gun everywhere you go.

If not, you'd damned better start, and I am not joking.

I plead the 5th. :)

- ML

[torchbearer]

I plead the 5th. :)

- ML

plead the 5th and keep the 2nd close.

[torchbearer]

The citizens seem pretty oblivious to the inner workings of the city council, so I doubt most even realize that the liquor store is owned and operated by the city. If they do know, they must be okay with it because I haven't heard of anyone petitioning the council to sell it.

- ML


hmmmmmmmm

[Demigod]

Local government owns liquor stores in the USA :toady: .

[GunnyFreedom]

Local government owns liquor stores in the USA :toady: .

In NC that's required by law. ONLY the government can own and operate liquor stores here. Privatizing them was one of my efforts. The Christian Family Policy lobbies want to go back to prohibition. They go completely apoplectic when you talk about privatizing liquor sales.

[Demigod]

In NC that's required by law. ONLY the government can own and operate liquor stores here. Privatizing them was one of my efforts. The Christian Family Policy lobbies want to go back to prohibition. They go completely apoplectic when you talk about privatizing liquor sales.

I thought only the Scandinavians were stupid enough to have such things as a controlled market for liquor.Also I really can not understand USA religion because from what I see it is about everything except faith.

[GunnyFreedom]

I thought only the Scandinavians were stupid enough to have such things as a controlled market for liquor.

Well, most everyone wants to privatize. The Governor, the Legislature, the citizens. The only people who want to maintain the ABC boards are the local school boards (whom the ABC stores fund) the County commissioners (who don't have to pay as much for the schools) and the Christian lobbyists, who want to control people's behavior at gunpoint, and have enough influence to blatantly tell half the GOP Primary voters whom to vote for.

Last check I think it was upwards of 72-75% of the citizens want to see private liquor stores instead of State run, and probably 60% of legislators. The move is being held back by powerful lobbies and special interests.

[LibForestPaul]

Big government begins at home, doesn't it?

So many people want money and favors from the government, and so many in government love to give away other people's money.

Good work on those votes and explanations!

This is what your response needs to be. No logic will help. Sophist arguments win against the mundanes.

[Michael Landon]

Well, most everyone wants to privatize. The Governor, the Legislature, the citizens. The only people who want to maintain the ABC boards are the local school boards (whom the ABC stores fund) the County commissioners (who don't have to pay as much for the schools) and the Christian lobbyists, who want to control people's behavior at gunpoint, and have enough influence to blatantly tell half the GOP Primary voters whom to vote for.

Last check I think it was upwards of 72-75% of the citizens want to see private liquor stores instead of State run, and probably 60% of legislators. The move is being held back by powerful lobbies and special interests.

I didn't realize that entire states had laws requiring that only they may own liquor stores, that's absurd.

- ML

[GunnyFreedom]

I didn't realize that entire states had laws requiring that only they may own liquor stores, that's absurd.

- ML

Absurd is right!

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I didn't realize that entire states had laws requiring that only they may own liquor stores, that's absurd.

- ML

And in some states (Arkansas being one of the worst) the sell of alcohol is prohibited (Dry counties). Yes, absurd doesn't even begin to touch it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_counties

[Michael Landon]

And in some states (Arkansas being one of the worst) the sell of alcohol is prohibited (Dry counties). Yes, absurd doesn't even begin to touch it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_counties

Yeah, that's even more absurd.

- ML

[presence]

No, I don't. I probably should.

- ML


I would jump on that. It gives you an opportunity to put your cards on the proverbial table. People are much more understanding when you can clearly express why. Offering a business card with a link to your voting journal would go a long way towards building coalitions around your philosophy and keeping your enemies lip bitten rather than out spoken. If its not too late go backwards retroactively.

[Kotin]

bump

[paulbot24]

Reminds me of an old quote:

When government fears the people, that is liberty. Except when the people who scare the government don't actually want liberty, but just want government jobs. I mean, that's just f*cked up. --- Thomas Jefferson

Wow. Are you sure that wasn't Thomas Paine? ;)

[Weston White]

Mr. Landon:

You should have kindly informed him that in fact yes, when it comes to despotism, you will forever vote against supporting oligarchs in all degrees. And that on the other hand it is not really that you are voting “against everything” so much, as you are voting to substantiate liberty and R-E-S-P-E-C-T in humanity.

[presence]

http://amash.house.gov/press-release/amash-posts-1000th-straight-vote-explanation


Amash Posts 1000th Straight Vote Explanation Continues Record as Only Congressman to Explain Every Vote on Facebook
Feb 16, 2012
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
February 16, 2012

CONTACT
Will Adams
202.225.3849
will.adams@mail.house.gov



Amash Posts 1000th Straight Vote Explanation
Continues Record as Only Congressman to Explain Every Vote on Facebook Washington, D.C. – Rep. Justin Amash (R-MI) posted his thousandth straight vote explanation to Facebook last night, continuing his streak as the only congressman to post an explanation of every vote he takes.
The thousandth vote explanation concerned H.R. 2079, a bill to name a U.S. Post Office in East Rockaway, New York. Amash voted “yes,” and the bill passed 418-2.

[Michael Landon]

http://amash.house.gov/press-release/amash-posts-1000th-straight-vote-explanation

Amash is the man....

I am seriously thinking about creating a page explaining my votes.

-ML

[presence]

Amash is the man....


had to give props to where they're due

[nobody's_hero]

Amash is the man....

I am seriously thinking about creating a page explaining my votes.

-ML
you should, I think. It might help you with people who are more curious than critical. You'll probably never win over the guy at the gas station. But you could cancel him out 10-fold with support you'd gain from others.

[QuickZ06]

Amash is the man....

I am seriously thinking about creating a page explaining my votes.

-ML

You and him both are the man! Great work out there, I would love to have more like you where I live.