KS Liberty Candidate Official Announcement!!

[Roxi]

As previously mentioned I have a friend who decided to run for Governor of Kansas. She is a member of the Libertarian Party, and is running as such. After the SOS filing became finalized she got a bit excited and we put a rush on things. Bear with us as we finish developing the site and social media pages. I am SO proud to be a part of her campaign staff and web development team. (Though with all my other jobs, projects, and kids I think I need a vacation soon.)

Please visit and share the site and pages. Keep in mind there is still some tweaking to do on these things but she wanted an early launch so we made it happen.


http://www.vote4kansas.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Vote4Kansas


The forums will be membership only with a $10 contribution required for participation. (anyone can read)

[Roxi]

Bump...

[Keith and stuff]

Cool. Running ideas campaigns can be fun. Enjoy all of the media coverage. Make sure to have a bunch of short pro-liberty quotes ready to give to the media. That might be the most important part of the campaign.

[Roxi]

Cool. Running ideas campaigns can be fun. Enjoy all of the media coverage. Make sure to have a bunch of short pro-liberty quotes ready to give to the media. That might be the most important part of the campaign.


Thanks Keith, that's exactly the type of feedback I was hoping for. :)

[lib3rtarian]

LP? Another wasted campaign. Maybe the LP should try winning Dog Catcher first before trying the governorship.

[Keith and stuff]

Thanks Keith, that's exactly the type of feedback I was hoping for. :)

Excellent. My favorite book for pro-liberty 1 liners is Harry Browne's Liberty A-Z. It's $10 in book format but you might be able to find it online for free. It is a little outdated and focuses slightly on national politics but should work pretty well for a gubernatorial campaign. http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/0975432605

[Roxi]

LP? Another wasted campaign. Maybe the LP should try winning Dog Catcher first before trying the governorship.


That's a wonderful attitude you have, perhaps you shouldn't waste it here, and go spread your positivity on the streets. Or run for something yourself.

[Roxi]

Excellent. My favorite book for pro-liberty 1 liners is Harry Browne's Liberty A-Z. It's $10 in book format but you might be able to find it online for free. It is a little outdated and focuses slightly on national politics but should work pretty well for a gubernatorial campaign. http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/0975432605

Thanks!

[fr33]

My suggestions are that she should have her own website dedicated to her causes and campaign, even though vote4kansas is a good domain name. And she should have an active twitter account. I can't judge her facebook presence because I don't use it.

Good luck.

[lib3rtarian]

That's a wonderful attitude you have, perhaps you shouldn't waste it here, and go spread your positivity on the streets. Or run for something yourself.

Run as a GOP candidate to push the party more libertarian, instead of wasting time with a LOSER, good for nothing, underachieving party like the LP.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Roxi, I realize this is your friend, but you posted this on a public forum, so expect others to be critical of your friend as a candidate.

I believe, your friend is illustrative of why the LP is a joke as a political party and movement. For one, they let anyone run for office. Let's look at the candidate:

She has an Associates Degree, and has been in the workforce for around 10 years in retail sales and management, as a waitress, cook, restaurant manager, nanny, and substitute teacher. Not really a stunning resume. Kansas has an annual budget of over $25 billion and employs over 80,000 persons. There is nothing in her experience that even remotely suggests she is qualified for the job. Sure she has an interest in politics and has served as a county chair for the LP. But that is akin to someone going to NASA and wanting to be an astronaut because they like watching Star Trek.

Now Grant Nelson, the guy running for Lt Gov isn't spectacular either. According to his bio he "currently works for a Hutchinson-based software company, providing technical support and training for small medical clinics in Kansas and surrounding states". It is easy to find which company that is and looking at the "Leadership" link on their website, Grant is no where to be found. I'm sure he has a nice job, and is probably very good at it, but again what in his background qualifies him for this position? Yes, he's been involved in third party politics for years, but again we are back to the astronaut analogy I used earlier.

The last time an LP candidate won election to a state legislature seat was 1984. Since then the handful of state seats they have "won" were fusion candidates (i.e. the candidate appeared on both the LP ballot and the GOP ballot). And to make matter worse, the majority of the LP folks who have won local offices (school board, township offices, mayors, etc) won in non-partisan races. As a political party, the LP is a colossal failure, and in large part the reason is because they waste time, money and resources on letting "anyone who wants to run" on the ballot in a major state wide contest. What is sad, is that there are people who will part with their hard earned money to fund this campaign.

If you friend was truly desirous of bringing her ideas to the state, she should follow the path that is successful and has worked for countless libertarian minded folks across the country. Get involved at the local level in the GOP, run for a local office and then translate that into a state legislature seat.

[fr33]

Some of us live in areas where the Republican Party is the nazi party. Joining them accomplishes nothing.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Some of us live in areas where the Republican Party is the nazi party. Joining them accomplishes nothing.

It accomplishes far more than running on the LP ticket. If a libertarian wants to win elected office at the state or federal level, there is one path and it is through the GOP. The GOP is a vehicle and little more, and this is proven over and over again as libertarian minded folks have won state and federal seats as Republicans. On the contrary, no LP candidate has won a seat at the state level since 1984 and never at the federal level.

[FrankRep]

1% of the vote

[Keith and stuff]

The last time an LP candidate won election to a state legislature seat was 1984. Since then the handful of state seats they have "won" were fusion candidates (i.e. the candidate appeared on both the LP ballot and the GOP ballot). And to make matter worse, the majority of the LP folks who have won local offices (school board, township offices, mayors, etc) won in non-partisan races. As a political party, the LP is a colossal failure, and in large part the reason is because they waste time, money and resources on letting "anyone who wants to run" on the ballot in a major state wide contest. What is sad, is that there are people who will part with their hard earned money to fund this campaign.

If you friend was truly desirous of bringing her ideas to the state, she should follow the path that is successful and has worked for countless libertarian minded folks across the country. Get involved at the local level in the GOP, run for a local office and then translate that into a state legislature seat.
Didn't Representative Steve Vaillancourt win election in the New Hampshire House of Representatives as a Libertarian in 2000?

[Keith and stuff]

It accomplishes far more than running on the LP ticket. If a libertarian wants to win elected office at the state or federal level, there is one path and it is through the GOP. The GOP is a vehicle and little more, and this is proven over and over again as libertarian minded folks have won state and federal seats as Republicans. On the contrary, no LP candidate has won a seat at the state level since 1984 and never at the federal level.

The other option is the Democratic Party. Libertarians have a strong tradition of being elected as Democrats in New Hampshire. In 2012, for example, 3 libertarians were elected as state reps in NH by running as Democrats.

[Roxi]

Constructive criticism is expected and encouraged. Negative blanket poo pooing isn't necessary. Just sayin.

Personally, I think that it's important to continue to fight to bring the LP into the light as a legitimate party. I also think that plenty of people are more likely to vote for someone who has never held an official office rather than an established party hack.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Didn't Representative Steve Vaillancourt win election in the New Hampshire House of Representatives as a Libertarian in 2000?

Might be the exception, but I think he was a fusion candidate. If I remember him correctly didn't he hold his office and lose a primary for a higher seat, then have to re run for his existing office, then he changed to Republican. If that is the case, then the LP was just a place holder for him - not like they fielded their own candidate from scratch. He is a Republican now.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Constructive criticism is expected and encouraged. Negative blanket poo pooing isn't necessary. Just sayin.

Personally, I think that it's important to continue to fight to bring the LP into the light as a legitimate party. I also think that plenty of people are more likely to vote for someone who has never held an official office rather than an established party hack.

I think it is very constructive. You have two people running for office that are way under qualified, in a party that no one pays any attention to. It's a lesson to those that read this forum what not to do, and what not to donate time and money to. Very educational in that regard.

Honestly, the LP has had 40 years to establish themselves as a legitimate party. That ship sailed a long time ago, and year after year they keep running the same failed playbook. What's that line by Einstein, "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". That pretty much sums up the LP.

[Keith and stuff]

Might be the exception, but I think he was a fusion candidate. If I remember him correctly didn't he hold his office and lose a primary for a higher seat, then have to re run for his existing office, then he changed to Republican. If that is the case, then the LP was just a place holder for him - not like they fielded their own candidate from scratch. He is a Republican now.
I've never seen any evidence to suggest that. However, if you have some, I'd love to see it! Please share. Folks here talked about this in 2012. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?381759-Discussion-of-Working-inside-the-GOP&p=4525979&viewfull=1#post4525979

[CaptLouAlbano]

I've never seen any evidence to suggest that. However, if you have some, I'd love to see it! Please share. Folks here talked about this in 2012. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?381759-Discussion-of-Working-inside-the-GOP&p=4525979&viewfull=1#post4525979

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Steve_Vaillancourt

http://sos.nh.gov/2000RepGen.aspx?id=3187


Won House in 98 as a Dem, lost the 00 primary for State Senate as a Dem, switched to LP to run for his House seat, won and then changed to GOP. Won every election since. My guess is that in 00 when he lost the primary, party rules or state rules forbade him from running as a Dem. Either way, he won on his own merit, not the LP and switched right after.

[Keith and stuff]

So you agree with everyone else here that has talked about it and he did win as LP in 2000 so the 1984 info is not correct :toady: you could change you position to not previously elected or something. I encouraged the OP to get involved with politics as an LP, if desired. IMO, unless a decent candidate has a shot at winning, which isn't the case in this KS race, or the election is in NH, it likely isn't that important how a liberty person gets involved, so long as the person learns valuable skills.

[Roxi]

I think it is very constructive. You have two people running for office that are way under qualified, in a party that no one pays any attention to. It's a lesson to those that read this forum what not to do, and what not to donate time and money to. Very educational in that regard.

Honestly, the LP has had 40 years to establish themselves as a legitimate party. That ship sailed a long time ago, and year after year they keep running the same failed playbook. What's that line by Einstein, "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". That pretty much sums up the LP.


Yours was constructive... I was referring to the other comment. I appreciate the comments too. I disagree in principal, even though I completely get your point, and to a degree, I agree with it. Except, I think it's important to keep fighting to come to a point where the LP is a major party. I spent a long time working within the GOP, and while I'll continue to support candidates that do, and local people taking over their GOP, I will no longer have anything to do with it, local or otherwise. They wouldn't have me anyway after walking out of the convention with my middle finger in the air, but that's a whole other story.

[Roxi]

No, it's not a lot, and the offices aren't that high up but there are lots of Libs in holding official elected titles: http://www.lp.org/candidates/elected-officials

[lib3rtarian]

Constructive criticism is expected and encouraged. Negative blanket poo pooing isn't necessary. Just sayin.

Personally, I think that it's important to continue to fight to bring the LP into the light as a legitimate party. I also think that plenty of people are more likely to vote for someone who has never held an official office rather than an established party hack.

I have "liked" the LP FB page, and so I get their news feeds. The way they make their announcements about candidates, you would think they are 1% away from winning the majority vote, but in reality, they get <1% of the vote, IF they are lucky. It's really pathetic and sad to watch, for the rest of us. And they are not even content to have candidates run at the very local level and build a base, but go directly for governorships and the presidency. Talk about wishful thinking.

Another reason why I have no sympathy for the LP is their elitist mentality. They constantly bash Ron and Rand on FB for being neocons (!!) and sell-outs. Who made libertarianism a household name? Certainly not the losers in LP.

Screw the LP and screw anyone wasting their time with them.

[CaptLouAlbano]

So you agree with everyone else here that has talked about it and he did win as LP in 2000 so the 1984 info is not correct :toady: you could change you position to not previously elected or something. I encouraged the OP to get involved with politics as an LP, if desired. IMO, unless a decent candidate has a shot at winning, which isn't the case in this KS race, or the election is in NH, it likely isn't that important how a liberty person gets involved, so long as the person learns valuable skills.

I'll concede that on a technicality. He won on the LP line, but solely because he was previously elected. The LP has not generated their own victorious candidate since Marrou in 84. And even still, if we concede on Vaillancourt its been 13 years and how many 1000's of state legislature races since they have won again? And if the LP was such a good vehicle for Vaillancourt, why then did he switch to the GOP and not stay in the LP?

[Keith and stuff]

I'll concede that on a technicality. He won on the LP line, but solely because he was previously elected. The LP has not generated their own victorious candidate since Marrou in 84. And even still, if we concede on Vaillancourt its been 13 years and how many 1000's of state legislature races since they have won again? And if the LP was such a good vehicle for Vaillancourt, why then did he switch to the GOP and not stay in the LP?

I am just saying that your 1984 number is too pessimistic. 13 years is bad but it is more accurate :) I don't know why he switched but it likely had something to do with him wanting to win. The NH House used to have a LP Caucus and a NH House Minority Leader. Those days are gone.

[CaptLouAlbano]

No, it's not a lot, and the offices aren't that high up but there are lots of Libs in holding official elected titles: http://www.lp.org/candidates/elected-officials

Click on the names, and you will find that the large majority are non-partisan offices. And I would venture a guess that many of the partisan seats were fusion candidates like Dan Halloran (NY). So in 40 years, hundreds of thousands of elections and countless millions of dollars and man hours, this the best the LP can do?

And there are not "lots of Libs holding elected title", there's about 150 or so. Considering how many elected seats there are in the country, upwards of 200,000 I would guess, the percentage is really small.

[CaptLouAlbano]

I am just saying that your 1984 number is too pessimistic. 13 years is bad but it is more accurate :) I don't know why he switched but it likely had something to do with him wanting to win. The NH House used to have a LP Caucus and a NH House Minority Leader. Those days are gone.

All in all it is pitiful considering that every year tens of thousands of people run for elected office on the LP ticket and lose. Again, back to the Einstein quote.

[Keith and stuff]

All in all it is pitiful considering that every year tens of thousands of people run for elected office on the LP ticket and lose. Again, back to the Einstein quote.

I highly doubt anywhere near that many people run on the LP ticket every year.

[CaptLouAlbano]

I highly doubt anywhere near that many people run on the LP ticket every year.

Ok, then thousands - either way it is still a very poor result.

The point is, it is such a colossal waste of time and money. Especially, when there is a proven way for libertarians to win elected office, just look at Rand, Massie, Davis, Amash, etc for the answer.

[lib3rtarian]

The point is, it is such a colossal waste of time and money. Especially, when there is a proven way for libertarians to win elected office, just look at Rand, Massie, Davis, Amash, etc for the answer.
The LP thinks Rand, Massie and Amash are sellouts. If you think I am joking, just observe their FB page for a week and see their attitude for yourself. These losers think they are elitists who think they are too cool to associate with statists like us who support Rand, Massie and Amash and the candidates themselves.

[fr33]

The LP thinks Rand, Massie and Amash are sellouts. If you think I am joking, just observe their FB page for a week and see their attitude for yourself. These losers think they are elitists who think they are too cool to associate with statists like us who support Rand, Massie and Amash and the candidates themselves.

Your generalization is just like saying Rand Paul wants to bomb Iran and assassinate Americans since he's a member of the GOP.

[CaptLouAlbano]

The LP thinks Rand, Massie and Amash are sellouts. If you think I am joking, just observe their FB page for a week and see their attitude for yourself. These losers think they are elitists who think they are too cool to associate with statists like us who support Rand, Massie and Amash and the candidates themselves.

Oh I know, I have seen some of their writings. A lot of the LP folks are much happier being part of a very small minority that no one pays attention to. It feeds their need to feel like they are on the outside looking in and better than everyone else.

[muzzled dogg]

LP = waste

[Bastiat's The Law]

LP = waste

I agree. Anyone running in a third party hasn't gotten "it" yet. This is after 5 years of Ron instructing us to reform the GOP and in typical Ron Paul fashion, he's right! We are beginning to see a sea-change occurring.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAhQyCtYe5A

[CaptLouAlbano]

I agree. Anyone running in a third party hasn't gotten "it" yet. This is after 5 years of Ron instructing us to reform the GOP and in typical Ron Paul fashion, he's right! We are beginning to see a sea-change occurring.

I have always believed there were four types of people who were activists in third parties:

The Naive - new folks who just don't have the political experience or knowledge to know they are wasting their time and money

The Delusional - those who see the past results of third parties, yet despite all the evidence they ignore logic, thinking that this time they can win.

The Opportunists - those who use the third party for their own future financial gain

The Outcasts - those who know third parties don't have a chance, they know they have little impact, but they participate solely because they like being part of a fringe movement because it satisfies their need to be "counter-culture"

[Brian4Liberty]

The Outcasts - those who know third parties don't have a chance, they know they have little impact, but they participate solely because they like being part of a fringe movement because it satisfies their need to be "counter-culture"

Small pond makes the fish look bigger.

[Krzysztof Lesiak]

LP is a waste of time. I'm a liberterian and it represents my beliefs, but 2-3% is a complete waste of time and money. The only way to be viable in an election is to run in the GOP. Third parties in America are a sad joke.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Small pond makes the fish look bigger.

Agreed. I guess some people think that saying "I am the state chairman of the American Freedom Party" is a good way to pick up chicks.

[Bastiat's The Law]

LP is a waste of time. I'm a liberterian and it represents my beliefs, but 2-3% is a complete waste of time and money. The only way to be viable in an election is to run in the GOP. Third parties in America are a sad joke.

The faster people realize this the faster we can get in place to have impact. I'm so grateful Ron Paul helped enlighten so many people as to what works and what doesn't.

[Krzysztof Lesiak]

Agreed. I guess some people think that saying "I am the state chairman of the American Freedom Party" is a good way to pick up chicks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Freedom_Party


American Freedom Party
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia4 reader comments
Page semi-protected
American Freedom Party
American3PositionParty.png
Chairman William D. Johnson
Senate leader None
House leader None
Headquarters Westminster, California
Ideology Paleoconservatism,
White supremacism,
Third Position
Political position Fiscal: Third Position
Social: Far-right
International affiliation None
Seats in the Senate None
Seats in the House None
Website
http://american3rdposition.com/
Politics of the United States
Political parties
Elections
Part of a series on
Politics and elections
Third Position
Varieties
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National-Anarchism
National Bolshevism
National syndicalism
Nazism
Strasserism
Parties and movements
American Freedom Party
Black Front
Crusade of Romanianism
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Fascism portal
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v t e
The American Freedom Party (formerly the American Third Position Party or A3P) is a third positionist American political party which promotes white supremacy.[1][2][3][4] It was officially launched in January 2010[5] (although in November 2009 it filed papers to get on a ballot in California) partially to channel the right-wing populist resentment engendered by the financial crisis of 2007–2010 and the policies of the Obama administration.[6]
Contents [hide]
1 Leadership
2 Political activities
3 2012 hacked website incident
4 2012 presidential election
5 Electoral participation
6 Name change
7 References
8 External links
Leadership[edit source | editbeta]

The party chairman is Los Angeles attorney William Daniel Johnson. Long Beach State University professor of psychology Kevin B. MacDonald has been named one of the eight party Directors, and is also a principal contributor to The Occidental Quarterly[7][8] where he has contributed articles claiming that a suite of traits that he attributes to Jews, including higher-than-average verbal intelligence and ethnocentricism, have eugenically and culturally evolved to enhance the ability of Jews to out-compete non-Jews for resources. MacDonald believes this advantage has been used by a number of Jews to advance Jewish group interests and end potential antisemitism by either deliberately or inadvertently undermining the power and self-confidence of the European-derived majorities in the Western world.[9][10][11] A 2006 article in The Nation magazine reports that MacDonald's 2004 Understanding Jewish Influence: A Study in Ethnic Activism "has turned MacDonald into a celebrity within white nationalist and neo-Nazi circles."[12] Writing in the Journal of Church and State, Professor George Michael noted that MacDonald's work "has been well received by those in the racialist right, as it amounts to a theoretically sophisticated justification for anti-Semitism," and that on the far right MacDonald "has attained a near reverential status and is generally considered beyond reproach".[13]
Political activities[edit source | editbeta]



William Johnson, Chairman of A3P, speaking at a Tea Party rally.
New Hampshire state party chairman Ryan Murdough ran in the Republican Party of New Hampshire primary for a seat representing the Eighth District of the Grafton County delegation to the New Hampshire House of Representatives,[14] but he was refused support by the Republican party, which called him a "despicable racist".[15] He placed fifth out of five candidates in the Republican primary, garnering 296 votes (11%).[16] Murdough was the National Political Director for the National Socialist American Labor Party, a party which espouses Nazi beliefs.[17]
In November 2009 the American Third Position Party filed papers with the office of the California Secretary of State, hoping to become a fully ballot-accessible party by the time of the June 2010 California primary election.[18] However, the party failed to qualify and did not get on the 2010 ballot in California[19] or any other state.[20] The party received enough signatures to get Harry Bertram on the ballot for the 2011 West Virginia gubernatorial special election.[21] Bertram's campaign ran a television ad emphasizing his desire to advance the interests of white Americans. Bertram was soundly defeated in the election, coming in last place out of 5 candidates on the ballot and netting only 1,111 votes; less than 0.4 percent of the total.[22]
2012 hacked website incident[edit source | editbeta]

In early February 2012 members of the hacker group Anonymous released statements claiming to have hacked the website of the party as well as various forums and email accounts connected with the group, including that of Jamie Kelso, the websites operator.[23][24] The front page of the party's website was defaced with #OpBlitzkrieg (the designated name used in January 2012 for a series of Anonymous cyber-attacks on German Neo-Nazi websites) and private information about the organization's members was released.[25]

Think you might have been thinking of the wrong guys ;)

Hot chicks dig politics? Hmm

[Roxi]

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/08/07/4395273/libertarian-files-for-kan-governors.html

[Bastiat's The Law]

Small pond makes the fish look bigger.

"It is all vanity."

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_h9Q2_DTj5iI/S2IekeP28WI/AAAAAAAAAN0/5sOPCybt22k/s400/Cicero+HBO+Rome+Bamber.jpg

[fr33]

Well this lady has every reason to hate RPF. The thread has a one star rating and most responders have told her she's wasting her time.

The fact is, she wouldn't be elected anyways. Only assholes feel the need to point it out. I guess Ron Paul was wasting his time in '88. No he wasn't. He spoke the truth even though neither party wanted to hear it.

Those that feel the need to say LP candidates are a waste are just assholes that claim our time, money, and allegiance to the GOP (who is complicit and largely responsible for the assault on liberty). You don't own my time. My time spent on the LP is not wasted because it's time I certainly would not have spent on the GOP. The GOP is the party of the patriot act and the NDAA. Resistance to them is to be respected.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Well this lady has every reason to hate RPF. The thread has a one star rating and most responders have told her she's wasting her time.

The fact is, she wouldn't be elected anyways. Only assholes feel the need to point it out. I guess Ron Paul was wasting his time in '88. No he wasn't. He spoke the truth even though neither party wanted to hear it.

Those that feel the need to say LP candidates are a waste are just assholes that claim our time, money, and allegiance to the GOP (who is complicit and largely responsible for the assault on liberty). You don't own my time. My time spent on the LP is not wasted because it's time I certainly would not have spent on the GOP. The GOP is the party of the patriot act and the NDAA. Resistance to them is to be respected.

I don't think anyone suggested allegiance to the GOP, but that working within the GOP is the proven path of success for libertarians, where working within the LP is a proven path of failure. If one spends time and money on an LP candidate, which has be shown time and time again to be a failure, they are wasting their time and money. Now, people are free to do whatever they choose with their money, even spend it on a foolish endeavor, but ones right to do something does not make it logical or fruitful.

You are correct when you say no one owns your time, and that you wouldn't have spent in the GOP anyway. You are free to spend your time and money however you choose, but I would suggest that spending your time and money on a hobby or business would be far more fruitful than spending that time and money on LP endeavors. If you have $5000 and your choice is between donating to the LP and buying a boat, I would suggest buying the boat - you'll get far more value from your purchase. Of course you are free to do whatever you wish, but don't put yourself on a public forum and become indignant when people tell you that you are foolish for throwing money into the black hole that is the LP.

Yes, the lady running for governor of KS will not be elected. However, on a public forum such as this, when the topic is introduced it is profitable for people to point out the foolishness of a third party run. There are many people who may be reading this forum who are naive or delusional - hopefully posts from myself and others on the topic will bring some clarity to the issue. If you are looking for cheerleaders, then perhaps there are other forums out there that will be free of any critical thought and applaud any Tom, Dick or Harry who chooses to run for a high level office.

As far as Paul in 88, few if any people knew he was running or even cared. In 88 Ron was an opportunist. He knew he wouldn't win, he knew he wouldn't get in the debates, he knew that scant few people would even know he was running. As I see it, Ron ran in 88 for the purpose of speaking to young folks about politics. From an interview back in those days Paul said, "We're just as interested in the future generation as this election. These kids will vote eventually, and maybe, just maybe, they'll go home and talk to their parents." He used the LP as a vehicle for his own personal endeavors, and along the way he picked up a lot of new subscribers to his newsletters which was a bonus. When he decided to return to elected office, Ron did not run as on the LP ticket, but instead chose the vehicle that was a proven success, the GOP. And in recent years he has preached many times that the GOP needs to be reformed, and recent electoral history shows that the process is beginning.

[lib3rtarian]

Well this lady has every reason to hate RPF. The thread has a one star rating and most responders have told her she's wasting her time.

The fact is, she wouldn't be elected anyways. Only assholes feel the need to point it out. I guess Ron Paul was wasting his time in '88. No he wasn't. He spoke the truth even though neither party wanted to hear it.

Those that feel the need to say LP candidates are a waste are just assholes that claim our time, money, and allegiance to the GOP (who is complicit and largely responsible for the assault on liberty). You don't own my time. My time spent on the LP is not wasted because it's time I certainly would not have spent on the GOP. The GOP is the party of the patriot act and the NDAA. Resistance to them is to be respected.

At least Ron Paul realized in 1988 that LP was a waste of time and move onto the GOP. The elitists in the LP have their collective heads buried in the sand in 2013 still. Go ahead and donate all your money to the LP candidate. A saying comes to mind - "A fool and his money are soon parted."

[muzzled dogg]

You can say lp is a waste without having allegiance to either major party

In fact it's a logical conclusion if you actually care about winning. If wanting to win makes you an asshole then so be it

[Roxi]

This is my reply to someone in PM but since it applies here I'm posting it too.

While I agree that for the short term, the path through liberty is within the republican party, I also know that there are a LOT of liberty minded people, who lean more toward democrat than republican, but are still a step in the right direction no matter which route they take. I'm also of the opinion that for the long term, it's important to build the Libertarian Party, and possibly other third parties. The majority of Americans now call themselves "Independent" even though at the polls they vote for an R or D ticket. I also know, that a great number of these folks are actually Libertarians without even knowing it.

Tresa is a long standing member of the LP and is dedicated to building the LP to major party status. My opinion on what ticket she should run on isn't even a factor, so it's pointless for me to even have an opinion in regard to her candidacy.

In any case, no matter what our opinions are on which party a liberty minded candidate should run on, I still find it important to help any person willing to run for office, that holds similar principals or ideals as I do WIN that office.

I've said this no less than 100 times in regard to Rand, but it applies here too. The key to change in this country isn't a "my way or the highway attitude" It's not going to get "fixed" BUT, we can take baby steps in getting some things accomplished in placing people in any office who is even halfway there on the liberty end. These candidates aren't perfect, but they're damn sure better than what is in place now.

[Roxi]

Well this lady has every reason to hate RPF. The thread has a one star rating and most responders have told her she's wasting her time.

The fact is, she wouldn't be elected anyways. Only assholes feel the need to point it out. I guess Ron Paul was wasting his time in '88. No he wasn't. He spoke the truth even though neither party wanted to hear it.

Those that feel the need to say LP candidates are a waste are just assholes that claim our time, money, and allegiance to the GOP (who is complicit and largely responsible for the assault on liberty). You don't own my time. My time spent on the LP is not wasted because it's time I certainly would not have spent on the GOP. The GOP is the party of the patriot act and the NDAA. Resistance to them is to be respected.



"You must spread some reputation around before giving to fr33 again."

[CaptLouAlbano]

In any case, no matter what our opinions are on which party a liberty minded candidate should run on, I still find it important to help any person willing to run for office, that holds similar principals or ideals as I do WIN that office.

I disagree with you here.

Every election there are multiple races where liberty candidates are seeking office. Each one of us has limited time and limited financial resources to contribute to those campaigns. We all need to wise in the stewardship of that time and money. If we are to squander time and money on a candidate that has no chance of winning office, then we are diverting time and money from a candidate that has a realistic shot at winning the office.

Each person is free to do whatever they choose with their money. However, my recommendation is contrary to yours. I find it important to help any person who has a realistic shot at winning an election, that holds similar principles or ideals as I do, win that office. LP candidates do not have a realistic shot at winning an election for a state house seat or higher. Until they are able to change that through their own hard work and diligence, I will not spend a dime on an LP candidate, and I will do everything in my power to convince others to do likewise.

[muzzled dogg]

The majority of Americans now call themselves "Independent" even though at the polls they vote for an R or D ticket. I also know, that a great number of these folks are actually Libertarians without even knowing it.

they are libertarians, not Libertarians


no matter what our opinions are on which party a liberty minded candidate should run on, I still find it important to help any person willing to run for office, that holds similar principals or ideals as I do WIN that office.

in an ideal world where we have unlimited resources i would agree with this statement


The key to change in this country isn't a "my way or the highway attitude" It's not going to get "fixed" BUT, we can take baby steps in getting some things accomplished in placing people in any office who is even halfway there on the liberty end.

but you're not going to change things as a candidate who is unelectable


These candidates aren't perfect, but they're damn sure better than what is in place now.

nope, but as third party candidates they are unelectable

[CaptLouAlbano]

nope, but as third party candidates they are unelectable

It may be helpful to point out why they are unelectable. The reason is that politics is a career - like it or not, it is the nature of the game. Sure, anyone can run for and win an office, but in reality only those who have built for themselves a network of donors, volunteers and voters will succeed. To illustrate look at Mark Sanford, Tom Davis and Nikki Haley:

Davis is currently serving in the State Senate, and some have speculated he may run for governor. Before entering politics he was involved in local politics as a volunteer, etc. He then was elected to county government and served there for a good number of years. Because of this, he then served as chief of staff to Sanford. Because of this he was then able to run for and win a State Senate seat.

Sanford owned a real estate company, prior to entering politics, so he was well known in his district and built some connections. He ran for US House and won. His House seat propelled him to the Governor's seat, and we all know his downfall. But this past year he went back to the House based upon his record, connections and history.

Nikki Haley was involved in business prior to politics. She was on the board of the Lexington Chamber of Commerce and did a ton of stuff with that and related organizations, which build the recognition and connections. She ran for and won a state house seat and then eventually went on to become governor.

We could go on and on finding examples. But the point is this: these folks and countless others like them did not go from obscurity to political success. They were leaders in their communities, they were business owners, they were involved in local politics, then, and only then did they pursue elected office. That is what makes someone electable, and virtually every LP candidate that will throw their hat into the ring this year and next fails the electability test. They simply do not have the experience, connections and ability to run a serious campaign for office.

I am frankly amazed that some people have the balls to run for office and ask people to part with their hard earned money to support them, when they have no experience, no network of connection and are by every definition - unelectable.