Are the radio pundits pushing a Cruz/Lee thing?

[Carlybee]

I keep hearing Ted Cruz/Mike Lee bandied about and get the feeling some of them are not so subtly testing the waters for more palatable "liberty" candidates.

[Sola_Fide]

I keep hearing Ted Cruz/Mike Lee bandied about and get the feeling some of them are not so subtly testing the waters for more palatable "liberty" candidates.

Ive heard it too. Ted Cruz is the kind of George Bush style Republican that they want.

[Christian Liberty]

What's your take on Mike Lee, Sola_Fide?

I'm not totally sure what to make on him. I know I don't like Ted Cruz, but Lee actually seems rock solid some of the time.

[eduardo89]

What's your take on Mike Lee, Sola_Fide?

I'm not totally sure what to make on him. I know I don't like Ted Cruz, but Lee actually seems rock solid some of the time.

Cruz and Lee are virtually identical. They're also 99% identical to Rand on every issue.

[Matt Collins]

Cruz and Lee are virtually identical. They're also 99% identical to Rand on every issue.I don't think Cruz is identical to Rand on foreign policy.

[AuH20]

Cruz and Lee are virtually identical. They're also 99% identical to Rand on every issue.

True, but Rand is easily the most confrontational in terms of pointing out Republican hypocrisy. This is also the main reason why he has the biggest bulls eye affixed to his back.

[eduardo89]

I don't think Cruz is identical to Rand on foreign policy.

No, they're not identical, but they vote the same 96% of the time.

[Brian4Liberty]

I keep hearing Ted Cruz/Mike Lee bandied about and get the feeling some of them are not so subtly testing the waters for more palatable "liberty" candidates.

Lee (and Cruz) are taking the lead on the attempt to defund Obamacare. They are talking about it a lot. Cruz seems to join either Mike or Rand when one of them is "leading" on an issue. Cruz took the lead on the recent "abolish the IRS" meme.

[TaftFan]

Lee hardly ever gets attention or credit for what he does.

[Carlybee]

I think Cruz is very ambitious. (not that most politicians aren't) I'll just leave it at that.

[AuH20]

Lee hardly ever gets attention or credit for what he does.

He's like the 5th beatle. Very true.

[Christian Liberty]

I've never seen Mike Lee advocate invading Syria, and he voted no on giving data to the Feds.

I'm still not settled on him, considering his comments, but Mike Lee at least seems to be a mixture of conservative and libertarian views. Ted Cruz is basically just a regular conservative.

[eduardo89]

Lee hardly ever gets attention or credit for what he does.

I've noticed this as well. It's a bit sad, but Lee isn't as charismatic as Cruz nor does he have the established base Rand does.

I wish Lee would do his own filibuster to raise his name. It would be amazing if the most talked about senators were Rand, Cruz, AND Lee. How awesome would it be for the face of the GOP to be three liberty crusaders?

[eduardo89]

I've never seen Mike Lee advocate invading Syria, and he voted no on giving data to the Feds.

I'm still not settled on him, considering his comments, but Mike Lee at least seems to be a mixture of conservative and libertarian views. Ted Cruz is basically just a regular conservative.

Lee votes with Cruz even more often than Rand, even if only just 1% more.

The three are almost identical. All three are awesome and any one would make an amazing president.

[Carlybee]

I've noticed this as well. It's a bit sad, but Lee isn't as charismatic as Cruz nor does he have the established base Rand does.

I wish Lee would do his own filibuster to raise his name. It would be amazing if the most talked about senators were Rand, Cruz, AND Lee. How awesome would it be for the face of the GOP to be three liberty crusaders?

I'm not willing to call Cruz a liberty crusader...maybe a part time one. The jury is still out for me because I get the feeling he will turn on a dime.

[Brett85]

I don't think Cruz is identical to Rand on foreign policy.

Matt, would you say that Mike Lee is better than Cruz on the issues overall?

[Antischism]

Mike Lee and Ted Cruz are both bad on foreign policy, so that might be one reason.

[Christian Liberty]

Mike Lee and Ted Cruz are both bad on foreign policy, so that might be one reason.

Well, they're all bad on foreign policy, but has Mike Lee made any bad foreign policy votes that Rand Paul got right?

Anything short of Ron Paul is some degree or another of bad foreign policy, but I don't recall to Lee advocating intervention anywhere like Cruz has.

[eduardo89]

Anything short of Ron Paul is some degree or another of bad foreign policy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

[AuH20]

Mike Lee and Ted Cruz are both bad on foreign policy, so that might be one reason.

Bad? Lindsay Graham is bad on foreign policy. John McCain is horrendous on foreign policy. Those two are mediocre.

[eduardo89]

Bad? Lindsay Graham is bad on foreign policy. John McCain is horrendous on foreign policy. Those two are mediocre.

They're way better than mediocre. They're not perfect, but even Ron Paul was far from perfect (counter to what many here seem to believe).

[Sola_Fide]

They're way better than mediocre. They're not perfect, but even Ron Paul was far from perfect (counter to what many here seem to believe).

Where was Ron Paul wrong on foriegn policy?

[Antischism]

Keep moving those goal posts. I don't think anyone who makes statements such as these:


Israel is our closest ally in the Middle East, providing the United States with a stable and dependable partner in a hostile region of the world. Israel faces many of the same threats confronting the United States and we share a common interest in eradicating threats to peace worldwide. For these and other reasons, the United States has an undeniably strong interest in defending Israel’s national sovereignty and security.


I will also support U.S. efforts to protect Israel, given the close connection between Israel’s national security and our own. I strongly support the maintenance of Israel's qualitative military edge and recognize the important role the United States plays in assuring that this military superiority is maintained. In the Senate, I would support security assistance for Israel to enable Israel to maintain this critical edge. Such security assistance to Israel plays an important role in helping to maintain our own national security.


The government currently ruling in Iran presents a threat to the security of both the United States and Israel. I will therefore support efforts to place pressure on the government of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, with an eye toward persuading Iran to abandon its nuclear weapons ambitions. Should those efforts prove unsuccessful, military action would be justified.

is good on foreign policy.

[eduardo89]

Where was Ron Paul wrong on foriegn policy?

His vote for AUMF and his believe that sanctions are war, for starters.

[Sola_Fide]

His vote for AUMF and his believe that sanctions are war, for starters.

I agree with AUMF, but where was he wrong in a philosophical sense? The AUMF was a deviation from his philosophy imo.

Ted Cruz is philosophically wrong when he thinks it is acceptable to invade Syria. Ted Cruz is philosophically wrong when he thinks Americans should be forced to die for Israel. Ted Cruz does not have the same philosophical foundation that Ron has...not even close.

[anaconda]

I keep hearing Ted Cruz/Mike Lee bandied about and get the feeling some of them are not so subtly testing the waters for more palatable "liberty" candidates.

Rand is leading in the latest PPP national poll so his "palatability" is somewhat established. Yet, I wish Mike Lee would get more props as a national figure. The guy is sincere, brilliant, and actually speaks better than Ted Cruz.

[LibertyEagle]

Lee votes with Cruz even more often than Rand, even if only just 1% more.

The three are almost identical. All three are awesome and any one would make an amazing president.

Uh, I don't know about that. I don't remember the votes, but I do remember over the last couple of years, being disappointed that Lee didn't support one piece of legislation or another.

I do not consider them identical at all. I trust Rand. I don't trust Cruz farther than I can throw him. Lee, I just don't know. Yes, Lee and Cruz are light years better than most of the Senate, but there is not way I would refer to them as being identical to Rand.

[compromise]

Lee is not very well known. Hopefully the push to defund Obamacare will raise his name recognition. Lee is probably aiming for Senate leadership, hence why he's not as provocative as Rand or Cruz.

Rand or Cruz would both be the best thing since Coolidge if either became President.

Freedom Fanatic, I believe Rand was the only no vote on one of the Iran resolutions last year. Rand is on par with Amash and very close to Ron on foreign policy.

[Christian Liberty]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

I was talking about the policies he supports, not literally only him.


Bad? Lindsay Graham is bad on foreign policy. John McCain is horrendous on foreign policy. Those two are mediocre.

Is John McCain actually worse than Graham on foreign policy issues? I always assumed Graham was the worst.

Ted Cruz is bad on foreign policy, just not as bad as them. I'm not totally sure what Lee's foreign policy is. McCain and Graham are both terrible.


They're way better than mediocre. They're not perfect, but even Ron Paul was far from perfect (counter to what many here seem to believe).

You support MORE intervention than him, so shut up.


Where was Ron Paul wrong on foriegn policy?

AUMF 2001. Although I'm not sure he could have known that for sure at the time. Although, somehow, Barbara Lee did. It was a forgivable mistake, but at the end of the day, it was still a mistake.

[Christian Liberty]

I agree with AUMF, but where was he wrong in a philosophical sense? The AUMF was a deviation from his philosophy imo.

Ted Cruz is philosophically wrong when he thinks it is acceptable to invade Syria. Ted Cruz is philosophically wrong when he thinks Americans should be forced to die for Israel. Ted Cruz does not have the same philosophical foundation that Ron has...not even close.

I missed this, but yeah, I agree with you.

Ron's reasons for voting for the AUMF... to get the people responsible for 9/11, were not wrong. I just think he was naive to actually believe (Or vote as if he believed... it wouldn't surprise me if he knew better, but voted as if his opponents had good faith) that they would actually do that with the AUMF.


Lee is not very well known. Hopefully the push to defund Obamacare will raise his name recognition. Lee is probably aiming for Senate leadership, hence why he's not as provocative as Rand or Cruz.

Rand or Cruz would both be the best thing since Coolidge if either became President.

Freedom Fanatic, I believe Rand was the only no vote on one of the Iran resolutions last year. Rand is on par with Amash and very close to Ron on foreign policy.

Amash has actually voted against some sanctions, and I don't remember him ever saying an attack on Israel is an attack on the US. So I think Amash is probably better than Rand, even if not by a whole lot.

I haven't been following Amash's rhetoric though. Rand's rhetoric about "Keeping the military funded" is a little disturbing. He pretends that its for defense, but his dad is Ron Paul. He knows better. I just don't know for sure to what extent he's willing to use that knowledge.

I'm voting for Rand in 2016, and if he gets in, I'm expecting the foreign policy to change. If not, I'll go third party in 2020.

[Matt Collins]

Matt, would you say that Mike Lee is better than Cruz on the issues overall?I would say yes, but Cruz is more vocal than Mike is.

[Christian Liberty]

Keep moving those goal posts. I don't think anyone who makes statements such as these:


is good on foreign policy.

I think I'd honestly almost prefer Dennis Kucinich over him...

(Not an endorsement of Kucinich.)

[eduardo89]

I think I'd honestly almost prefer Dennis Kucinich over him...


Abortions should always be legal. (Jan 2004)
Supreme Court nominees must agree to uphold Roe v. Wade. (Apr 2003)
Women can’t be free unless they have the right to choose. (Apr 2003)
Voted NO on banning partial-birth abortion except to save mother’s life. (Oct 2003)
As Cleveland mayor, first city to default since Depression. (Nov 2007)
Voted YES on $192B additional anti-recession stimulus spending. (Jul 2009)
Voted YES on additional $825 billion for economic recovery package. (Jan 2009)
Voted YES on monitoring TARP funds to ensure more mortgage relief. (Jan 2009)
Voted YES on $15B bailout for GM and Chrysler. (Dec 2008)
Voted YES on $60B stimulus package for jobs, infrastructure, & energy. (Sep 2008)
Gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender right to marry. (Jul 2007)
Supports reparations for slavery, to “repair the breach”. (Jul 2007)
Affirmative action is necessary & right & must be preserved. (Aug 2003)
Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment. (Mar 2007)
Reinforce anti-discrimination and equal-pay requirements. (Jan 2008)
Democracy fails without corporate regulation. (Sep 2003)
Voted YES on enforcing against anti-gay hate crimes. (Apr 2009)
Supports national ban on smoking in public places. (Sep 2007)
Free education from pre-kindergarten to college. (Sep 2007)
Sent kids to public school; apply that to all kids. (Jul 2007)
Constitutional amendment guaranteeing equal opportunity. (Jun 2007)
Voted YES on $40B for green public schools. (May 2009)
Voted YES on $84 million in grants for Black and Hispanic colleges. (Mar 2006)
$50B solar venture fund for developing nations. (Aug 2002)
Voted YES on $2 billion more for Cash for Clunkers program. (Jul 2009)
Voted YES on $9.7B for Amtrak improvements and operation thru 2013. (Jun 2008)
Voted YES on increasing AMTRAK funding by adding $214M to $900M. (Jun 2006)
Dept. of Peace would address violence at home. (Jun 2002)
Voted YES on $15.2 billion for foreign operations. (Nov 1999)
Voted YES on Congressional pay raise. (Jun 2009)
We have babies dying in the streets; ban handguns. (Jul 2007)
Ban sale or transfer of semi-automatic guns. (Nov 2006)
Require background checks, licensing, and fingerprinting. (Jan 2004)
Voted YES on regulating tobacco as a drug. (Apr 2009)
Voted YES on expanding the Children's Health Insurance Program. (Jan 2009)
Voted YES on adding 2 to 4 million children to SCHIP eligibility. (Oct 2007)
Voted NO on establishing tax-exempt Medical Savings Accounts. (Oct 1999)
Voted YES on extending unemployment benefits from 39 weeks to 59 weeks. (Oct 2008)
Voted YES on increasing minimum wage to $7.25. (Jan 2007)
Voted NO on Tax cut package of $958 B over 10 years. (May 2001)
Voted NO on eliminating the Estate Tax ("death tax"). (Apr 2001)
Voted NO on eliminating the "marriage penalty". (Jul 2000)
Voted NO on $46 billion in tax cuts for small business. (Mar 2000)
Voted YES on $23B instead of $4.9B for waterway infrastructure. (Nov 2007)
Voted YES on instituting National Service as a new social invention. (Mar 2009)
Voted YES on providing $70 million for Section 8 Housing vouchers. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on promoting work and marriage among TANF recipients. (Feb 2003)


Kucinich is absolutely horrible. He's a POS socialist.

[cajuncocoa]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

No, eduardo. Why mimic the talking points of those who opposed the Ron Paul R3volution? Ron is the standard by which all who follow will be judged; deal with it! :p

[anaconda]

I would say yes, but Cruz is more vocal than Mike is.

Lee is an uncommonly fine speaker. Don't see why he couldn't be more vocal if he wanted to.