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View Full Version : Manning : ACQUITTED (of aiding the enemy, found guilty of lesser charges)




Contumacious
07-30-2013, 11:26 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2013/07/29/National-Enterprise/Images/Manning_Wikileaks-06aa0.jpg
Bradley Manning found not guilty of aiding the enemy (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/judge-to-announce-verdict-in-bradley-manning-case-today/2013/07/29/e894a75c-f897-11e2-afc1-c850c6ee5af8_story.html?wpisrc=al_national)

.

PaleoPaul
07-30-2013, 11:30 AM
He's still found guilty on espionage and a couple other charges, though. So your headline is misleading and makes it sound like he's totally free. He's not.

CPUd
07-30-2013, 11:30 AM
They will reconvene for sentencing on the other charges in the morning. He could get anywhere from time served to 136 years.

Here is a list of the prosecution witnesses for sentencing:
http://www.alexaobrien.com/secondsight/wikileaks/bradley_manning/us_v_pfc_manning_names_and_information_for_the_exp ected_closed_session_of_classified_stipulation_dur ing_sentencing.html


My Speculation: he will get the max on all counts, but the ones he pled guilty to looked like they were all 2's; for sentencing purposes, the judge will decide to treat those as 1 charge, and give him time served on them. She could do the same on the 10's, and apply the 3 years served to make it 7. I think there might be a 12 in there as well, if she treats it similarly, he would have 9 years left, but could be up for release after 85% served, approximately 2020.

angelatc
07-30-2013, 11:34 AM
Yeah that headline gave me false hope.

Origanalist
07-30-2013, 11:36 AM
Yeah that headline gave me false hope.

I was in the same boat. :(

CaseyJones
07-30-2013, 11:38 AM
fixed title

CPUd
07-30-2013, 11:51 AM
I was in the same boat. :(

It's still a win that the MSM is using it for their headlines, rather than MANNING GUILTY ON 19 COUNTS.

Sentencing guidelines should be posted later tonight.

Anti Federalist
07-30-2013, 11:52 AM
I'm surprised actually, I figured they would have thrown the book at him.

CPUd
07-30-2013, 11:53 AM
I'm surprised actually, I figured they would have thrown the book at him.

Well, he did get convicted for computer fraud for using wget.

Cowlesy
07-30-2013, 11:55 AM
He looks like hell. I guess being locked in a 6x8 cell with no natural light 23 hours a day for 36 months or so will do that to a guy.

donnay
07-30-2013, 11:59 AM
He looks like hell. I guess being locked in a 6x8 cell with no natural light 23 hours a day for 36 months or so will do that to a guy.

Hopefully Snowden has watched this carefully. Coming back here would be death for him.

These men are both heroes to me. They had the courage to call out the evil empire!

Anti Federalist
07-30-2013, 12:01 PM
Hopefully Snowden has watched this carefully. Coming back here would be death for him.

These men are both heroes to me. They had the courage to call out the evil empire!

Agreed.

Snowden coming back would be a death sentence for him.

He's already gaunt.

Barrex
07-30-2013, 12:03 PM
fixed title

"lesser" being relative term.


I see internet swarming with "not guilty of aiding the enemy" and "judge reduces Bradley sentence" (he reduced it because he was treated badly in prison). This is not a victory. This is a defeat. He spent 3+ years in jail already and soon we will find out how much more will he be locked up.

Tod
07-30-2013, 12:06 PM
Remember, Bradley Manning is accused by the State of crimes against the State. The judge is paid by and works for, the State. Conflict of interest, anyone? Fair trial?

Will Bradley Manning end up serving his sentence in its entirety, or will at some point someone come to his cell, unlock it, and say, "You are a free man now, Mr. Manning. The government has collapsed and the empire-building fascists have either been hanged, shot, or are now going to be taking your place in this cell."?

Contumacious
07-30-2013, 12:17 PM
He's still found guilty on espionage and a couple other charges, though. So your headline is misleading and makes it sound like he's totally free. He's not.

PaleoPaul you are correct. And the headline has been corrected.

Yep, this case reminds me of the surviving Davidians, who although acquitted of murdering federal thugs , were sentenced to 100 years in prison.

And so it goes in our welfare/warfare republic.

.

Lucille
07-30-2013, 01:03 PM
"lesser" being relative term.

I see internet swarming with "not guilty of aiding the enemy" and "judge reduces Bradley sentence" (he reduced it because he was treated badly in prison). This is not a victory. This is a defeat. He spent 3+ years in jail already and soon we will find out how much more will he be locked up.

I read somewhere today that they threw in the aiding the enemy charge to make the others look reasonable by comparison. I think that's right.


Remember, Bradley Manning is accused by the State of crimes against the State. The judge is paid by and works for, the State. Conflict of interest, anyone? Fair trial?

Will Bradley Manning end up serving his sentence in its entirety, or will at some point someone come to his cell, unlock it, and say, "You are a free man now, Mr. Manning. The government has collapsed and the empire-building fascists have either been hanged, shot, or are now going to be taking your place in this cell."?

I wish Ron was president right now.

kcchiefs6465
07-30-2013, 01:06 PM
I'm surprised actually, I figured they would have thrown the book at him.
He's facing 136 years.

He was found guilty of five counts of espionage.

Sentencing may take a little while. The defense and prosecution are going to call witnesses to discuss the impact his leaks had. Don't be surprised if the judge gives him 100 years.

brushfire
07-30-2013, 01:07 PM
What's with the polo-shirt wearing escorts? Is that proper dress now days? "Casual grays"?

This verdict is partial good news for the rest of us, but now what about Manning? I'm betting they use him as an example and he'll see no less than 20 years.

amy31416
07-30-2013, 01:10 PM
Let's just not let him or Snowden drop from our minds, along with the Gitmo prisoners and drone victims.

Origanalist
07-30-2013, 01:12 PM
:( People are slaughtered, and he goes to prison.

DamianTV
07-30-2013, 01:14 PM
Hopefully Snowden has watched this carefully. Coming back here would be death for him.

These men are both heroes to me. They had the courage to call out the evil empire!

Its more than that. They had the courage to call out the Evil Empire at great personal risk to themselves, and did so not for fame or money or power, but because it was the right thing to do.

eduardo89
07-30-2013, 01:15 PM
This is going to be an unpopular opinion around here, but I don't have much sympathy for him. He knew what he was getting into and he knew the consequences of leaking all that information.

amy31416
07-30-2013, 01:25 PM
This is going to be an unpopular opinion around here, but I don't have much sympathy for him. He knew what he was getting into and he knew the consequences of leaking all that information.

That's the way it is, but it isn't the way it should be.

Our gov't is fond of "double taps" in warfare--and that's a war crime. The US public should know when their gov't is doing these sorts of things in their name, and Manning blew the whistle on this practice. He'll get no criticism from me.

brushfire
07-30-2013, 01:39 PM
This is going to be an unpopular opinion around here, but I don't have much sympathy for him. He knew what he was getting into and he knew the consequences of leaking all that information.

That's true, but it only gives me more reason to admire the guy. How many people do you know who are willing to do the right thing, no matter what the personal sacrifice may be in doing so? The guy's actions have done a lot for liberty (relatively speaking), and he will no doubt pay a high price for it. The outcome of this case will dictate how many more "Mannings" we have in the near future.

randpaul2016
07-30-2013, 03:44 PM
via Dirty Wars Facebook

"It's a devastating commentary that Bradley Manning may go to prison for many years while you have legitimate war criminals who walk around free... If you believe that those within government structures have an obligation, a duty, to speak out when they see criminal activity, then you have to view Bradley Manning as a whistleblower." - Jeremy Scahill on today's special Democracy Now! coverage of the Bradley Manning verdict.

See the full video here: http://bit.ly/17S1IpY

pcosmar
07-30-2013, 03:51 PM
I'm surprised actually, I figured they would have thrown the book at him.

They did. some pages didn't stick.

Contumacious
07-30-2013, 04:00 PM
This is going to be an unpopular opinion around here, but I don't have much sympathy for him. He knew what he was getting into and he knew the consequences of leaking all that information.

Eduardo, we are not surprised. We know that you are the typical - run-of-the-mill - fascist.

.

eduardo89
07-30-2013, 04:05 PM
Eduardo, we are not surprised. We know that you are the typical - run-of-the-mill - fascist.

Unlike Snowden, Manning didn't leak the information for noble reasons. He was pissed at the Army. He's a homosexual and didn't like the DADT policy.

I honestly don't have much sympathy for him. He knew what he was doing, he was stupid about it and got caught.

Call me a fascist all you like, that term is meaningless as an insult.

angelatc
07-30-2013, 04:08 PM
This is going to be an unpopular opinion around here, but I don't have much sympathy for him. He knew what he was getting into and he knew the consequences of leaking all that information.

Things have changed since Ellsburg, I guess. He walked around free while he was awaiting trial, and then the court threw out the government's case. I agree that he knew what could happen, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. He did the right thing.

69360
07-30-2013, 04:09 PM
At least msm can not call him a traitor

Ranger29860
07-30-2013, 04:09 PM
What's with the polo-shirt wearing escorts? Is that proper dress now days? "Casual grays"?

This verdict is partial good news for the rest of us, but now what about Manning? I'm betting they use him as an example and he'll see no less than 20 years.

They are probably CID ( Criminal Investigation Division), They are kinda like U.S. Marshall's for the military. They usually wear civilian clothes so no on can figure out their rank and name so that they can go undercover later somewhere else.

Anti Federalist
07-30-2013, 04:10 PM
He's facing 136 years.

He was found guilty of five counts of espionage.

Sentencing may take a little while. The defense and prosecution are going to call witnesses to discuss the impact his leaks had. Don't be surprised if the judge gives him 100 years.

I retract my comment.

That's a big fucking book.

Fuck these fascists.

Anti Federalist
07-30-2013, 04:12 PM
This is going to be an unpopular opinion around here, but I don't have much sympathy for him. He knew what he was getting into and he knew the consequences of leaking all that information.

Yes, very unpopular.

The Romans who crucified Christ probably said the same damn thing.

Anti Federalist
07-30-2013, 04:14 PM
Its more than that. They had the courage to call out the Evil Empire at great personal risk to themselves, and did so not for fame or money or power, but because it was the right thing to do.

And so therefore, will be destroyed.

Truth truly is treason in this Empire of Lies.

paulbot24
07-30-2013, 04:40 PM
This is going to be an unpopular opinion around here, but I don't have much sympathy for him. He knew what he was getting into and he knew the consequences of leaking all that information.

I agree with you 100%, but only about your opinion on this being completely unpopular. I couldn't finish the rest.

liveandletlive
07-30-2013, 04:41 PM
hes still pretty much fucked. poor guy.

Murray N Rothbard
07-30-2013, 04:42 PM
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3019/3038408041_6217700be8.jpg

Contumacious
07-30-2013, 05:11 PM
Unlike Snowden, Manning didn't leak the information for noble reasons. He was pissed at the Army. He's a homosexual and didn't like the DADT policy.

Bradley Manning Is a Hero (http://www.lewrockwell.com/2011/02/tom-engelhardt/bradley-manning-is-a-hero/)

U.S. Army Private First Class Bradley Manning has done his duty. He has witnessed serious violations of the American military’s Uniform Code of Military Justice, violations of the rules in U.S. Army Field Manual 27-10, and violations of international law. He has brought these wrongdoings to light out of a profound sense of duty to his country, as a citizen and a soldier, and his patriotism has cost him dearly.



Call me a fascist all you like, that term is meaningless as an insult.

Like I said, you a PROUD fascist.

eduardo89
07-30-2013, 05:22 PM
U.S. Army Private First Class Bradley Manning has done his duty. He has witnessed serious violations of the American military’s Uniform Code of Military Justice, violations of the rules in U.S. Army Field Manual 27-10, and violations of international law. He has brought these wrongdoings to light out of a profound sense of duty to his country, as a citizen and a soldier, and his patriotism has cost him dearly.

I have no problem with him bringing these violations to light, but I don't think sending hundreds of thousands of documents to WikiLeaks was the right way to do it.


Like I said, you a PROUD fascist.

Whatever you say. Although I don't think you know what the word fascist means.

AuH20
07-30-2013, 05:27 PM
Unlike Snowden, Manning didn't leak the information for noble reasons. He was pissed at the Army. He's a homosexual and didn't like the DADT policy.

I honestly don't have much sympathy for him. He knew what he was doing, he was stupid about it and got caught.

Call me a fascist all you like, that term is meaningless as an insult.

So his motivations weren't as pure as Snowden's? Where did you read that this was his main line of reasoning? This piqued my interest. This was some type of rebellious act in defiance of DADT? That would cheapen his image if so.

James Madison
07-30-2013, 05:44 PM
So, Manning could get up to 136 years for leaking 'classified' information.

When do we convict the guys who faked 'classified' information about WMDs? Anyone...?

kcchiefs6465
07-30-2013, 06:46 PM
http://i.imgur.com/f4s73vS.png?1

eduardo89
07-30-2013, 07:07 PM
So his motivations weren't as pure as Snowden's? Where did you read that this was his main line of reasoning? This piqued my interest. This was some type of rebellious act in defiance of DADT? That would cheapen his image if so.

I thought it was well known.


After four weeks at the Joint Readiness Training Center (JRTC) in Fort Polk, Louisiana, he was deployed to Forward Operating Base Hammer, near Baghdad, arriving in October 2009. From his workstation there, he had access to SIPRNet (the Secure Internet Protocol Router Network) and JWICS (the Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communications System). Two of his superiors had discussed not taking him to Iraq – it was felt he was "a risk to himself and possibly others," according to a statement later issued by the army – but again the shortage of intelligence analysts held sway.

A month later, in November 2009, he was promoted from Private First Class to Specialist. That same month, according to his chats with Lamo, he made his first contact with WikiLeaks, shortly after it posted 570,000 pager messages from the 9/11 attacks, which it released on November 25. Also in November, Manning wrote to a gender counselor in the United States, said he felt female, and discussed having sex reassignment surgery. The counselor told Steve Fishman of New York Magazine that it was clear Manning was in crisis, partly because of his gender concerns, but also because he was opposed to the kind of war in which he found himself involved.

He was by all accounts unhappy and isolated. Because of the army's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy (known as DADT, which was repealed in September 2011), he was not allowed to be openly gay, though he apparently made no secret of it; his friends said he kept a fairy wand on his desk. When he told his roommate he was gay, the roommate responded by suggesting they not speak to each other. His working conditions – 14–15 hour night shifts in a dimly lit secure room – did not help his emotional well being.[26] On December 20, 2009, after being told he would lose his one day off a week for being persistently late, he overturned a table in a conference room and damaging a computer that was sitting on it before his arms were pinned behind his back. Several witnesses to the incident believed his access to sensitive material ought to have been withdrawn at that point. The following month, he began posting on Facebook that he felt alone and hopeless.

....


In April, just as WikiLeaks published the video, Manning sent an e-mail to his master sergeant, Paul Adkins, saying he was suffering from gender dysphoria and attaching a photograph of himself dressed as a woman. Captain Steven Lim, Manning's commander, said he first saw the e-mail after Manning's arrest – when information about hormone replacement therapy was found in his room in Baghdad – and learned that Manning had been calling himself Breanna. Manning told Lamo that his commander had found out about the gender issue before his arrest, after looking at his medical files at the beginning of May. He said he had set up Twitter and YouTube accounts in Breanna's name to give her a digital presence, writing in the Lamo chat: "i wouldn't mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn't for the possibility of having pictures of me ... plastered all over the world press ... as [a] boy ... the CPU is not made for this motherboard ..."

On April 30, he posted on Facebook that he was utterly lost, and over the next few days that "Bradley Manning is not a piece of equipment," that he was "beyond frustrated," and "livid" after being "lectured by ex-boyfriend despite months of relationship ambiguity ..." On May 7, he seemed to spiral out of control. According to army witnesses, he was found curled into a fetal position in a storage cupboard, with a knife at his feet, and had cut the words "I want" into a vinyl chair. A few hours later he had an altercation with a female intelligence analyst, Specialist Jihrleah Showman, during which he punched her in the face. The brigade psychiatrist recommended a discharge, referring to an "occupational problem and adjustment disorder." His master sergeant removed the bolt from his weapon, and he was sent to work in the supply office, though at this point his security clearance remained in place. He was demoted from Specialist to Private First Class just three days before his arrest on May 27.

Ellen Nakashima writes that, on May 9, Manning contacted Jonathan Odell, a gay American novelist in Minneapolis, via Facebook, leaving a message that he wanted to speak to him in confidence; he said he had been involved in some "very high-profile events, albeit as a nameless individual thus far." On May 19, according to army investigators, he e-mailed Eric Schmiedl, a mathematician he had met in Boston, and told him he had been the source of the "Collateral Murder" video. Two days later, he began the series of chats with Adrian Lamo that led to his arrest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_manning

paulbot24
07-30-2013, 07:08 PM
I have no problem with him bringing these violations to light, but I don't think sending hundreds of thousands of documents to WikiLeaks was the right way to do it.

No kidding. What an amateur. If he would have whistleblown responsibly, ethically, and discreetly like Snowden did, he wouldn't be getting hounded by our government and stuck in prison or in some weird embassy. He'd be chilling sipping Mai Tais with Snowden right now with nothing to worry about...:eek:

eduardo89
07-30-2013, 07:10 PM
No kidding. What an amateur. If he would have whistleblown responsibly, ethically, and discreetly like Snowden did, he wouldn't be getting hounded by our government and stuck in an embassy. He'd be chilling sipping Mai Tais with Snowden right now with nothing to worry about...:eek:

Snowden did it properly, through proper journalists who actually know what to do with the data.

nobody's_hero
07-30-2013, 07:17 PM
I have no problem with him bringing these violations to light, but I don't think sending hundreds of thousands of documents to WikiLeaks was the right way to do it.

You're right, he should have reported it to his superiors. Then no one would know who he was, and his mother would be commenting that he hasn't been home for the holidays in a while. It would be a KGB style erasure.

eduardo89
07-30-2013, 07:18 PM
You're right, he should have reported it to his superiors. Then no one would know who he was, and his mother would be commenting that he hasn't been home for the holidays in a while. It would be a KGB style erasure.

That's not what I said.

paulbot24
07-30-2013, 07:25 PM
Snowden did it properly, through proper journalists who actually know what to do with the data.

You talk as if tyranny actually keeps track of these details when deciding how to meter out "justice" later on down the road. The only thing tyranny cares about is itself. It doesn't even care about which dark hole you're in, just as long as you're still in it.

eduardo89
07-30-2013, 07:27 PM
You talk as if tyranny actually keeps track of these details when deciding how to meter out "justice" later on down the road. The only thing tyranny cares about is itself. It doesn't even care about which dark hole you're in, just as long as you're still in it.

He'd certainly get exactly the same punishment he is getting now, regardless of how he leaked the information. I'm not questioning that.

What I do question are 1) his motive for leaking, and 2) the way in which he leaked the information

FindLiberty
07-30-2013, 07:49 PM
Not Guilty of the BIG charge! ...other background info here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPJbdXvuEMY

amy31416
07-30-2013, 07:55 PM
but also because he was opposed to the kind of war in which he found himself involved.

There's the part you chose not to bold, Eduardo.

Perhaps his motives/methods weren't as "pure" as Snowden's, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do.

James Madison
07-30-2013, 07:57 PM
Snowden did it properly, through proper journalists who actually know what to do with the data.

Manning's only mistake was thinking he still lived in America.

eduardo89
07-30-2013, 07:58 PM
There's the part you chose not to bold, Eduardo.

Perhaps his motives/methods weren't as "pure" as Snowden's, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do.

I didn't say it wasn't the right thing to do. I do think it was right, but I don't agree with the way he did it and I do question his motives.

eduardo89
07-30-2013, 07:59 PM
Manning's only mistake was thinking he still lived in America.

You're saying he expected a pat on the back and a presidential commendation?

amy31416
07-30-2013, 08:02 PM
I didn't say it wasn't the right thing to do. I do think it was right, but I don't agree with the way he did it and I do question his motives.

Yet you agree with his treatment thus far in prison and possibly massive sentence? Because you question his motives?

Of course, the gov't/media will try to make him look as bad as possible, I hope you at least know that.

James Madison
07-30-2013, 08:06 PM
You're saying he expected a pat on the back and a presidential commendation?

No, he expected his peers to honor their oath to the Constitution.

eduardo89
07-30-2013, 08:06 PM
Yet you agree with his treatment thus far in prison and possibly massive sentence? Because you question his motives?

Did I ever say I agree with his treatment? I haven't even discussed that. No, I don't think solitary confinement for months on end is appropriate for anyone facing trial. I think that amounts to a cruel and unusual punishment before the person has even been found guilty of a crime.


Of course, the gov't/media will try to make him look as bad as possible, I hope you at least know that.

I know, and I don't think he's some monster hell bent on destroying the US by helping al-Qaeda as I'm sure people like Graham and King would say he is. I don't, however, think he's an selfless angel who was doing this for the sake of transparency and altruism. Snowden more fits that description, Manning doesn't. From everything I've read on Manning, he has serious psychological issues stemming from his mental illness (thinking he's a woman) and he felt mistreated by the military.

amy31416
07-30-2013, 08:19 PM
Did I ever say I agree with his treatment? I haven't even discussed that. No, I don't think solitary confinement for months on end is appropriate for anyone facing trial. I think that amounts to a cruel and unusual punishment before the person has even been found guilty of a crime.

Don't get testy, you're the one who's saying that you have very little sympathy for him when he's barely out of his teen years and didn't perform to your standards. And you said you had very little sympathy knowing that his treatment has been borderline torture for what, two+ years?


I know, and I don't think he's some monster hell bent on destroying the US by helping al-Qaeda as I'm sure people like Graham and King would say he is. I don't, however, think he's an selfless angel who was doing this for the sake of transparency and altruism. Snowden more fits that description, Manning doesn't. From everything I've read on Manning, he has serious psychological issues stemming from his mental illness (thinking he's a woman) and he felt mistreated by the military.

Now who's saying he's a selfless angel? And why is it so important that the messenger fit your desired image? Perhaps you want to identify with a young, dashing, successful Snowden who's on the lamb (let's get Leonardo DiCaprio to play him!) more than you do with a cross-dressing, whistle-blowing spawn of Richard Simmons.

And is it possible that you're more critical of him because he's gay? That's one thing I'm pretty darned sure about.

eduardo89
07-30-2013, 08:27 PM
Don't get testy, you're the one who's saying that you have very little sympathy for him when he's barely out of his teen years and didn't perform to your standards. And you said you had very little sympathy knowing that his treatment has been borderline torture for what, two+ years?

I wasn't getting testy. I have little sympathy for him being found guilty. I have sympathy for the way he was treated during the trial. I don't think anyone should have to go through that.


Now who's saying he's a selfless angel? And why is it so important that the messenger fit your desired image? Perhaps you want to identify with a young, dashing, successful Snowden who's on the lamb (let's get Leonardo DiCaprio to play him!) more than you do with a cross-dressing, whistle-blowing spawn of Richard Simmons.

And is it possible that you're more critical of him because he's gay? That's one thing I'm pretty darned sure about.

Leo DiCaprio is too old to play Snowden.

I don't think it's important for the messenger to fit a certain image, but I do think Manning did it wrong by leaking it to WikiLeaks instead of someone like Greenwald. I also don't think his motives were pure, I honestly think it was more an attempt at revenge for his treatment in the military.

Him being gay doesn't interest me, but I don't think he's gay. I think he's mentally ill since he thinks he's a woman. I think the poor guy needs medical treatment for that.

Contumacious
07-30-2013, 08:30 PM
http://i.imgur.com/f4s73vS.png?1

Before you leak any information you must:

1- Obtain at least 2 passports
2- Be in a friendly foreign country
3- Remember federal courts today are nothing more than a cabinet level executive department

I sincerely appreciate your patriotism

LibForestPaul
07-30-2013, 08:34 PM
This is going to be an unpopular opinion around here, but I don't have much sympathy for him. He knew what he was getting into and he knew the consequences of leaking all that information.

Why do you believe he knew?Simply because you do? There are far far too many with blinders still on.

clint4liberty
07-30-2013, 09:15 PM
Eric Snowden will never return to the United States while the current President holds power. After the Bradley Manning verdict, Eric Snowden may try to stay in Russia for several years to come.

Peace&Freedom
07-30-2013, 09:25 PM
I didn't say it wasn't the right thing to do. I do think it was right, but I don't agree with the way he did it and I do question his motives.

What I question, is majoring in the minors, or mole hills. The purity of Manning's motives is not the lead story. The major issue, or the mountain, is the evil of current US foreign policy, and the civilians abroad who have been slaughtered by it. Uncovering the atrocities committed under this evil should have led to throwing out the charges against Manning, given the mitigating circumstances. Even further, the whole Espionage Act should be thrown out as bad law, designed to selectively criminalize some leakers but not others.

Contumacious
07-30-2013, 09:27 PM
What I question, is majoring in the minors, or mole hills. The purity of Manning's motives is not the lead story. The major issue, or the mountain, is the evil of current US foreign policy, and the civilians abroad who have been slaughtered by it. Uncovering this evil should have led to throwing out the charges against Manning, given the mitigating circumstances. Even further, the whole Espionage Act should be thrown out as bad law, designed to selectively criminalize some leakers but not others.

Unfortunately we no longer have Article III Courts.

The "judges" are merely federal agents and SCOTUS is an executive level cabinet level agency.

.

Barrex
07-30-2013, 10:53 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BQcJc7FCIAEmv0x.jpg:large

Sick.

eduardo89
07-30-2013, 10:56 PM
He plead guilty to collateral murder? wtf does the even mean?

Edit: nevermind, that's the name of one of the videos he leaked.

Ranger29860
07-31-2013, 03:37 AM
After four weeks at the Joint Readiness Training Center (JRTC) in Fort Polk, Louisiana, he was deployed to Forward Operating Base Hammer, near Baghdad, arriving in October 2009. From his workstation there, he had access to SIPRNet (the Secure Internet Protocol Router Network) and JWICS (the Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communications System). Two of his superiors had discussed not taking him to Iraq – it was felt he was "a risk to himself and possibly others," according to a statement later issued by the army – but again the shortage of intelligence analysts held sway.

A month later, in November 2009, he was promoted from Private First Class to Specialist. That same month, according to his chats with Lamo, he made his first contact with WikiLeaks, shortly after it posted 570,000 pager messages from the 9/11 attacks, which it released on November 25. Also in November, Manning wrote to a gender counselor in the United States, said he felt female, and discussed having sex reassignment surgery. The counselor told Steve Fishman of New York Magazine that it was clear Manning was in crisis, partly because of his gender concerns, but also because he was opposed to the kind of war in which he found himself involved.

He was by all accounts unhappy and isolated. Because of the army's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy (known as DADT, which was repealed in September 2011), he was not allowed to be openly gay, though he apparently made no secret of it; his friends said he kept a fairy wand on his desk. When he told his roommate he was gay, the roommate responded by suggesting they not speak to each other. His working conditions – 14–15 hour night shifts in a dimly lit secure room – did not help his emotional well being.[26] On December 20, 2009, after being told he would lose his one day off a week for being persistently late, he overturned a table in a conference room and damaging a computer that was sitting on it before his arms were pinned behind his back. Several witnesses to the incident believed his access to sensitive material ought to have been withdrawn at that point. The following month, he began posting on Facebook that he felt alone and hopeless.

In April, just as WikiLeaks published the video, Manning sent an e-mail to his master sergeant, Paul Adkins, saying he was suffering from gender dysphoria and attaching a photograph of himself dressed as a woman. Captain Steven Lim, Manning's commander, said he first saw the e-mail after Manning's arrest – when information about hormone replacement therapy was found in his room in Baghdad – and learned that Manning had been calling himself Breanna. Manning told Lamo that his commander had found out about the gender issue before his arrest, after looking at his medical files at the beginning of May. He said he had set up Twitter and YouTube accounts in Breanna's name to give her a digital presence, writing in the Lamo chat: "i wouldn't mind going to prison for the rest of my life, or being executed so much, if it wasn't for the possibility of having pictures of me ... plastered all over the world press ... as [a] boy ... the CPU is not made for this motherboard ..."

On April 30, he posted on Facebook that he was utterly lost, and over the next few days that "Bradley Manning is not a piece of equipment," that he was "beyond frustrated," and "livid" after being "lectured by ex-boyfriend despite months of relationship ambiguity ..." On May 7, he seemed to spiral out of control. According to army witnesses, he was found curled into a fetal position in a storage cupboard, with a knife at his feet, and had cut the words "I want" into a vinyl chair. A few hours later he had an altercation with a female intelligence analyst, Specialist Jihrleah Showman, during which he punched her in the face. The brigade psychiatrist recommended a discharge, referring to an "occupational problem and adjustment disorder." His master sergeant removed the bolt from his weapon, and he was sent to work in the supply office, though at this point his security clearance remained in place. He was demoted from Specialist to Private First Class just three days before his arrest on May 27.

Ellen Nakashima writes that, on May 9, Manning contacted Jonathan Odell, a gay American novelist in Minneapolis, via Facebook, leaving a message that he wanted to speak to him in confidence; he said he had been involved in some "very high-profile events, albeit as a nameless individual thus far." On May 19, according to army investigators, he e-mailed Eric Schmiedl, a mathematician he had met in Boston, and told him he had been the source of the "Collateral Murder" video. Two days later, he began the series of chats with Adrian Lamo that led to his arrest.


Obliviously depressed, sadly like most people going through that situation the Army just ignores it and puts him in situations he should not have been in. You would be shocked to see how much this happens. The military has no one to blame but themselves for letting him have access to the SIPR net at that point. Gay, transgender or not has little to do with this. This was a highly depressed soldier that was overworked harassed and isolated from everyone around him. I have no problem with the leaks, being someone who had access to those same files while I was in and seeing the absurdity of classifying half of it. This was a failure of command plain and simple and his chain of command needs to be heavily punished.

Shame on you eduardo for highlighting only the parts that fit your agenda but that is what I have come to expect from you.

Contumacious
07-31-2013, 08:10 AM
He plead guilty to collateral murder? wtf does the even mean?

Edit: nevermind, that's the name of one of the videos he leaked.

http://www.counter-currents.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/09hitler.jpg

.

eduardo89
07-31-2013, 11:53 AM
What does a picture of Adolf Hitler have to do with this thread?

Barrex
07-31-2013, 11:57 AM
I am sorry but everytime I see word "ACQUITTED" in title it bothers me. He wasnt acquitted ffs. It is a lie. Why are so many people trying to portrait this as something positive? Internet is swarmed with "acquitted retardation fuwesghhjgr".

Does it matter if someone stabs you 199 times or 200? Would you say luckily I was stabbed 199 and not 200 times?
You dont have AIDS (in some other universe).
Your wife didnt cheat on you (every day).
You are not stupid (you just have -60 IQ).
It is just stupid. I really want to start cursing and spitting and...retarded.

Lucille
08-06-2013, 12:21 PM
I know there's no political solution (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?417115-Would-you-support-Obama-impeachment&p=5158226#post5158226) this police state dystopia, but I will work and vote for whatever POTUS candidate promises to free Manning, and drop all charges against Assange and Snowden.

Manning's Max Possible Sentence Cut to 90 Years
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/mannings-max-sentence-cut-90-years-19881802


A military judge has reduced Army Pfc. Bradley Manning's maximum possible sentence in the WikiLeaks case to 90 years in prison.
Manning WikiLeaks Mythology.JPEG

Manning had faced up to 136 years in prison after he was convicted of charges related to his disclosure of classified information to the anti-secrecy website. But the judge, Army Col. Denise Lind, found during his sentencing hearing Tuesday that a number of the charges refer to the same actions and therefore were duplicative for sentencing purposes.

Manning was convicted at his court-martial of 20 counts. His defense attorneys had argued that some of the counts amounted to multiple convictions for a single act.

kcchiefs6465
08-06-2013, 02:23 PM
..... but I will work and vote for whatever POTUS candidate promises to free Manning, and drop all charges against Assange and Snowden.

No one will publicly say that. Aside from Ron Paul.

Then first term they will be worried about reelection so nothing too "radical" can happen those four years. At the very best it will be a good 10 years from now. I suspect anyone who makes such a campaign promise will re-neg on their promises. And that's being painfully optimistic that someone will come out and promise to pardon them in the first place. Sigh.

Any word on when a sentence is supposed to come down?