PDA

View Full Version : Apple retail workers file class action suit claiming lost wages over bag searches




aGameOfThrones
07-29-2013, 04:57 PM
Monday, July 29, 2013, 01:15 pm PT (04:15 pm ET)
Apple retail workers file class action suit claiming lost wages over bag searches

By Kevin Bostic
Former retail employees from Apple Stores in New York and Los Angeles have formed a class action suit against the iPhone maker, claiming that the company's anti-theft policies amounted to unpaid work to the tune of $1,500 per employee per year.


The filing for the suit alleges that "Apple has engaged and continues to engage in illegal and improper wage practices that have deprived Apple Hourly Employees throughout the United States of millions of dollars in wages and overtime compensation." At the center of the plaintiffs' case is the anti-theft procedure Apple requires its employees to go through.

At the end of a shift, as well as when clocking out to leave for a meal break, Apple's hourly retail employees must submit to "personal package and bag searches," during which the employees are off-the-clock. The complaint notes that these checks are "significant, integral, indispensable... and done solely for Apple's benefit to prevent employee pilferage."

As the employees were hourly and the checks only occurred when they were off the clock, they were not compensated for Apple's security procedures. The complaint claims the employees waited typically between 10 and 15 minutes and the end of every shift, as well as another five without compensation prior to going off for "uncompensated meal breaks."

"During any given week," the complaint reads, "[one plaintiff] worked approximately 50 minutes to 1.5 hours of uncompensated overtime. By conservative calculations, this equated over the course of one year to an aggregate amount of approximately $1,400 in uncompensated hours."

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/07/29/apple-retail-workers-file-class-action-suit-claiming-lost-wages-over-bag-searches


Apple should claim it's for safety from a terrorist attack.

Dr.3D
07-29-2013, 04:59 PM
Well, those workers could always find a different job.

tod evans
07-29-2013, 05:03 PM
Want people you don't have to search then hire a different class of people...

Or just have the legal team keep on keepin on....

amy31416
07-29-2013, 05:16 PM
Ecch. I was supposed to do that to other employees when I worked retail, I never actually did. If a manager was around, we just pretended to do it. If there was ever any actual evidence that someone was stealing, I probably would have--but without any proof, I ain't sticking my nose into anybody's business.

Honestly, I think it's a crappy policy because employees can figure out a way to steal something if they really want to even with the searches, it's just a way to humiliate people.

Anti Federalist
07-29-2013, 05:27 PM
Ecch. I was supposed to do that to other employees when I worked retail, I never actually did. If a manager was around, we just pretended to do it. If there was ever any actual evidence that someone was stealing, I probably would have--but without any proof, I ain't sticking my nose into anybody's business.

Honestly, I think it's a crappy policy because employees can figure out a way to steal something if they really want to even with the searches, it's just a way to humiliate people.

+rep

fr33
07-29-2013, 05:29 PM
I think it's proper if Apple kept them on the clock while searching them.

RCA
07-29-2013, 05:31 PM
Well, those workers could always find a different job.

This was my response in another thread recently:

This is the classic libertarian "if you don't like it then leave" fallacy that is used to support corrupt corporations and governments. This type of statement only holds water in a purely free market/ancap environment. When the system is corrupt, these utopian arguments are worthless and make the movement look petty. Another similar argument is "rich people are virtuous and are good for the economy and therefore I support rich people". The same fallacy mistakes are made here. When a large portion of rich people have made their wealth from bribes or legalized theft (Jim Taggart), then the argument falls apart immediately. Virtue comes from within, it is not an external quality. Just because you "have money" doesn't make you virtuous. Just because you "offer jobs" doesn't mean you are virtuous. So, by supporting the argument that a corporation is abusing its power by forcing its employees to accept a slanted payment option, is far more virtuous than defending a corporate juggernaut who operates and thrives in an almost completely un-free market.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?421665-Petition-McDonald-s-Stop-paying-employees-with-debit-cards-loaded-with-fees&p=5132547#post5132547

Dr.3D
07-29-2013, 05:35 PM
This was my response in another thread recently:

This is the classic libertarian "if you don't like it then leave" fallacy that is used to support corrupt corporations and governments. This type of statement only holds water in a purely free market/ancap environment. When the system is corrupt, these utopian arguments are worthless and make the movement look petty. Another similar argument is "rich people are virtuous and are good for the economy and therefore I support rich people". The same fallacy mistakes are made here. When a large portion of rich people have made their wealth from bribes or legalized theft (Jim Taggart), then the argument falls apart immediately. Virtue comes from within, it is not an external quality. Just because you "have money" doesn't make you virtuous. Just because you "offer jobs" doesn't mean you are virtuous. So, by supporting the argument that a corporation is abusing its power by forcing its employees to accept a slanted payment option, is far more virtuous than defending a corporate juggernaut who operates and thrives in an almost completely un-free market.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?421665-Petition-McDonald-s-Stop-paying-employees-with-debit-cards-loaded-with-fees&p=5132547#post5132547
I kind of figured this response was coming......

If they don't like it let them find another job, nobody is forcing them to work there.

RCA
07-29-2013, 05:43 PM
I kind of figured this response was coming......

If they don't like it let them find another job, nobody is forcing them to work there.

The response "came" because it was the correct response. The problem with these types of arguments are eventually you run out of real estate. Let's say you don't like something your government is doing, so you move to another country. Then let's say that country starts doing the same thing, so you move to another country. Then you noticed all the countries are doing the same thing so you try to get the next flight to Mars? There's only one earth. The "move" arguments ONLY WORK WHEN THE DECK IS NOT RIGGED. That's not to say that it can never work. For instance if I choose to buy a pair of shoes from Wal-Mart vs Target that is probably a 90% free market choice. However, most decisions we make every day don't involve such a simple black and white argument. For instance, can you say, well if you don't like your cable company then leave? Well, you probably can say it, and it can remotely make some sense if you want to switch to Fiber Optic Internet, but for the most part, since cable companes are a legal monopoly imposed by the State, the argument is a bit silly isn't it?

Dr.3D
07-29-2013, 05:45 PM
The response "came" because it was the correct response. The problem with these types of arguments are eventually you run out of real estate. Let's say you don't like something your government is doing, so you move to another country. Then let's say that country starts doing the same thing, so you move to another country. Then you noticed all the countries are doing the same thing so you try to get the next flight to Mars? There's only one earth. The "move" arguments ONLY WORK WHEN THE DECK IS NOT RIGGED. That's not to say that it can never work. For instance if I choose to buy a pair of shoes from Wal-Mart vs Target that is probably a 90% free market choice. However, most decisions we make every day don't involve such a simple black and white argument. For instance, can you say, well if you don't like your cable company then leave? Well, you probably can say it, and it can remotely make some sense if you want to switch to Fiber Optic Internet, but for the most part, since cable companes are a legal monopoly imposed by the State, the argument is a bit silly isn't it?

Yeah, stop the world, I want to get off.

amy31416
07-29-2013, 05:46 PM
I kind of figured this response was coming......

If they don't like it let them find another job, nobody is forcing them to work there.

Have you ever had a job where you supervised/managed people? I have, and I treated them with dignity and respect unless they'd done something to make it obvious they they weren't worthy of that.

Of the maintenance/media guys that worked for me at my last job? Two of 'em cried when I finally quit, the three others misted up. They worked their asses off for me and I returned the favor.

My boss was a "fuck it, everyone's replaceable guy" and he was an idiot--I lost my best lyophilyzer mechanic because of him, and we lost tens of thousands in down time and back orders.

torchbearer
07-29-2013, 05:50 PM
I think it's proper if Apple kept them on the clock while searching them.

apple should pay them for the time for the searches.
same reason you get paid to attend meetings.

Dr.3D
07-29-2013, 05:54 PM
apple should pay them for the time for the searches.
same reason you get paid to attend meetings.

I never got paid to attend meetings. One time I had been working all night and they decided to have a two hour meeting on the start of first shift. I only said I was tired and they told me I could look for another job.

RCA
07-29-2013, 05:55 PM
Also, keep in mind that this sort of public ostracism IS part of the free market (overlooking the fact that the State court system is being used for the suit). In fact, ostracism is one of the most powerful if not the most powerful free market phenomenon that affects change. I remember once repeating a joke I'd heard about Starbucks and that was by calling them 4-bucks. My brother (liberal) then said, "I thought you were free market? Either you are or you aren't". I then said "my joking IS the free market". So, when I see stories like this that are remotely justified, I think, right on, let the sun shine on this issue. Now, if people are making stuff up or accusing companies of idiotic stuff, then that is the time to say get a new job Bub.

RCA
07-29-2013, 05:56 PM
I never got paid to attend meetings. One time I had been working all night and they decided to have a two hour meeting on the start of first shift. I only said I was tired and they told me I could look for another job.

Then get a new damn job! /sarc

Dr.3D
07-29-2013, 05:57 PM
Then get a new damn job! /sarc
I did and it was with the same company. The new job didn't require me to go to any silly meetings.

torchbearer
07-29-2013, 06:00 PM
I never got paid to attend meetings. One time I had been working all night and they decided to have a two hour meeting on the start of first shift. I only said I was tired and they told me I could look for another job.


there is a reason for it.
in corporate environments, there are rules and procedures to what may end your employment
let's say you schedule me to work, but you add in- that you will not be paying me for those hours.
If I don't show up for those non-paying hours, you couldn't fire me, because without the exchange of money for labor- i was never technically working for you.
you trade time for money with the company.when the company is using your body for its ends- it pays. all that time is to be paid at prearranged rate.
I don't work, cause you don't pay me. i would not agree to a contract where i have to show up, but you don't have to pay.

angelatc
07-29-2013, 07:57 PM
I kind of figured this response was coming......

If they don't like it let them find another job, nobody is forcing them to work there.

You're absolutely right. The whining about rich people in these forums nauseates me.

angelatc
07-29-2013, 08:00 PM
The response "came" because it was the correct response. The problem with these types of arguments are eventually you run out of real estate. Let's say you don't like something your government is doing, so you move to another country. Then let's say that country starts doing the same thing, so you move to another country. Then you noticed all the countries are doing the same thing so you try to get the next flight to Mars? There's only one earth. The "move" arguments ONLY WORK WHEN THE DECK IS NOT RIGGED. That's not to say that it can never work. For instance if I choose to buy a pair of shoes from Wal-Mart vs Target that is probably a 90% free market choice. However, most decisions we make every day don't involve such a simple black and white argument. For instance, can you say, well if you don't like your cable company then leave? Well, you probably can say it, and it can remotely make some sense if you want to switch to Fiber Optic Internet, but for the most part, since cable companes are a legal monopoly imposed by the State, the argument is a bit silly isn't it?

No it wasn't the correct response. Well, it would be in Democrat Underground, but not here.

angelatc
07-29-2013, 08:01 PM
I think it's proper if Apple kept them on the clock while searching them.


Sure it is, but I don't have any sympathy for people who put up with being treated like that.

quezkittel
07-29-2013, 08:12 PM
Agree completely with you, Amy. So many retail employers understandably pull out the red carpet (would they ever make all the customers undergo a bag search unless they had direct evidence of a theft?) for customers, yet don't seem to understand that if you give employees a little bit of respect, it benefits your business and makes managers' jobs far easier. I'll never understand that attitude.

If I was forced to do the bag checks described above, I would be irritated every time it happened and would probably start dreaming up ways to steal stuff without getting caught. Of course, I would never steal anything, but probably others would be more tempted.

Dr.3D
07-29-2013, 08:16 PM
Sure it is, but I don't have any sympathy for people who put up with being treated like that.
Seems people fail to understand, if the company couldn't get people to work for them when they do these things, they would stop doing those things.

RCA
07-30-2013, 02:12 PM
Seems people fail to understand, if the company couldn't get people to work for them when they do these things, they would stop doing those things.

So do you pay taxes? If so, why? Does that mean you support taxes?

RCA
07-30-2013, 02:16 PM
You're absolutely right. The whining about rich people in these forums nauseates me.

Sigh...another Jim Taggart fanatic here. You do realize that all of Congress is rich correct? So, the whining about Congress nauseates you? You people need to fallacy proof your simple knee jerk positions if this movement is to ever be taken seriously and so far it isn't. Let me guess, you're also a minarchist?

Also, you do realize that this stuff is only allowed to happen because there IS NO FREE MARKET right? In a completely free market, employers wouldn't even think of doing this underhanded bullshit. Even if they tried, the business would get immediate punishment by workers "walking out". These workers would be able to just "walk out" as you all seem to want them to BECAUSE they would have plenty of savings due to no taxation or inflation AND have dozens if not hundreds of other jobs waiting for them. However, since we DON'T have anything close to a free market and workers have no savings or other jobs to choose from, then most workers have less incentive to abandon their jobs. Their only recourse is to speak out like they've done and rightfully so.

Dr.3D
07-30-2013, 02:28 PM
So do you pay taxes? If so, why? Does that mean you support taxes?

Somebody have a gun to your head saying you have to work for that company? No... I didn't think so.
I don't have a choice about taxes... they have a gun to my head.

VBRonPaulFan
07-30-2013, 02:31 PM
Those hourly folks on average are making ~$12/hr. I'm going to go ahead and give Apple the benefit of the doubt here and say these folks are being pretty reasonably compensated for those 5-15 min 'unpaid' breaks while checking out.

VBRonPaulFan
07-30-2013, 02:32 PM
So do you pay taxes? If so, why? Does that mean you support taxes?

If I stop showing up for work at Apple, cops aren't going to bust down my door to arrest me and shoot me if I fail to comply with their every command.

RCA
07-30-2013, 02:42 PM
Somebody have a gun to your head saying you have to work for that company? No... I didn't think so.
I don't have a choice about taxes... they have a gun to my head.

Of course you have a choice to pay taxes, but you do. Why?

RCA
07-30-2013, 02:44 PM
If I stop showing up for work at Apple, cops aren't going to bust down my door to arrest me and shoot me if I fail to comply with their every command.

It's all a matter of degrees. We have a choice in all that we do. When the system is rigged, and it is, then people have to make less than desirable choices.

The liberty movement will benefit the most from focusing on VIRTUOUS ACTION at any level, including the State level, corporate level and family level. Where the virtue comes from is really irrelevant. Minarchists always fall flat when they try to opine because they can never get over the virtue hurdle of the gun in the room.

Dr.3D
07-30-2013, 02:45 PM
Of course you have a choice to pay taxes, but you do. Why?

Seems you can't read. Nobody has a gun to their head with it comes to working for Apple. They don't have to work there.
When it comes to taxes, they have a gun to our head.

I won't say this again as I feel you might not understand it anyway.

RCA
07-30-2013, 02:51 PM
Seems you can't read. Nobody has a gun to their head with it comes to working for Apple. They don't have to work there.
When it comes to taxes, they have a gun to our head.

I won't say this again as I feel you might not understand it anyway.

Gun in the room, or taxation and fiat currency. Both cause a person to make less than desirable choices. The only difference is the degree. Also, when did public ostracism against a company become UN libertarian? Christ you people need to delve deeper into your simple flash card positions.

bolil
07-30-2013, 02:59 PM
I've worked many hours off the clock, happy to have a job I guess. Still do cut back on my hours, helps me make sure I stay employed. I guess I feel there is a sacred thing happening when someone is willing to employ you and, in a sense, help you to eat. Of course, I've only worked for small businesses and never take undue disrespect, except when I work for my dad.

RCA, none of those things have anything to do with Apples policy. One I assume you would take no issue with if a free market were realized. People were stealing from apple, apple decided to take measures. Anyone that doesn't like those measures can leave. Unless, you are going to coordinate a boycott of apple to affect their behavior while still respecting the NAP.

jbauer
07-30-2013, 04:22 PM
apple should pay them for the time for the searches.
same reason you get paid to attend meetings.

Absolutely, Apple owes them for this time. If its a mandatory thing then its on the clock. Now I probably would have told them where to shove it but you can't have an employee stay for searches that only benefit the company off the clock. Heck why not require all employees to work an extra 10 uncompensated hours a week?

jbauer
07-30-2013, 04:24 PM
I've worked many hours off the clock, happy to have a job I guess. Still do cut back on my hours, helps me make sure I stay employed. I guess I feel there is a sacred thing happening when someone is willing to employ you and, in a sense, help you to eat. Of course, I've only worked for small businesses and never take undue disrespect, except when I work for my dad.

RCA, none of those things have anything to do with Apples policy. One I assume you would take no issue with if a free market were realized. People were stealing from apple, apple decided to take measures. Anyone that doesn't like those measures can leave. Unless, you are going to coordinate a boycott of apple to affect their behavior while still respecting the NAP.

I EMPLOY PEOPLE, this is bullshit. I give you a job because you're going to make more money for me if you don't you're gone. Its not a favor, its not a god given right its a job. I want my employees to be happy but asking them to stay for my benefit uncompensated is a great way to get them to hate you and then really steal you stuff.

jbauer
07-30-2013, 04:26 PM
I never got paid to attend meetings. One time I had been working all night and they decided to have a two hour meeting on the start of first shift. I only said I was tired and they told me I could look for another job.

They can't force you to stay for something that is uncompensated. That is what (at least what historians say) started the civil war. You could have sued them, you would have won. These folks will win their lawsuit with ease and deservingly so.

torchbearer
07-30-2013, 04:40 PM
Absolutely, Apple owes them for this time. If its a mandatory thing then its on the clock. Now I probably would have told them where to shove it but you can't have an employee stay for searches that only benefit the company off the clock. Heck why not require all employees to work an extra 10 uncompensated hours a week?

yup

Philhelm
07-30-2013, 06:25 PM
Well, those workers could always find a different job.

Or they can negotiate with the employer.

helmuth_hubener
07-30-2013, 06:36 PM
So, when I see stories like this that are remotely justified, I think, right on, let the sun shine on this issue. Now, if people are making stuff up or accusing companies of idiotic stuff, then that is the time to say get a new job Bub.

They're not just publicizing things to bring ostracism. They are filing a federal lawsuit. That is, to translate it into real terms and strip off the veneer of lies: they are trying to get other people to use their guns and tanks to force Apple to pay them money which they are not owed. They want to steal money at the point of a gun, plain and simple.

Apple has not violated their contracts with these employees. Not one of them has a legitimate grievance that would justify taking out guns and shooting people in order to take their money. The suing employees are in the wrong. Using aggressive violence to get what you want but do not have (and are not owed) is wrong.

RCA
07-30-2013, 06:46 PM
They're not just publicizing things to bring ostracism. They are filing a federal lawsuit. That is, to translate it into real terms and strip off the veneer of lies: they are trying to get other people to use their guns and tanks to force Apple to pay them money which they are not owed. They want to steal money at the point of a gun, plain and simple.

Apple has not violated their contracts with these employees. Not one of them has a legitimate grievance that would justify taking out guns and shooting people in order to take their money. The suing employees are in the wrong. Using aggressive violence to get what you want but do not have (and are not owed) is wrong.

For starters, filing a lawsuit IS a form of public ostracism. In fact, it's a very common form of ostracism. You also tried to use the "if you don't like it leave" argument wrapped in the gun in the room argument. However the gun argument (on Apple's side through State lobbying, law passing, influence etc.) is exactly WHY the game is rigged and the tables are tilted. Apple is a corporatist behemoth with very little respect for the elusive free market. The fact that Apple is using the State to get its way lessens the criticism against employees by doing the same back to them albeit in a lesser manner than Apple is doing behind the scenes. Again, strip down arguments to their core and that's what you should be arguing. The don't like or leave argument has the most validity when all sides are playing fair. We are no where near that point as a society right now.

LibForestPaul
07-30-2013, 08:43 PM
The response "came" because it was the correct response. The problem with these types of arguments are eventually you run out of real estate. Let's say you don't like something your government is doing, so you move to another country.?
Don't compare a group of people with guns who say you are their subject with an entity that you voluntarily wanted to join for a mutually beneifical quid-pro-quo.

RCA
07-30-2013, 09:09 PM
Don't compare a group of people with guns who say you are their subject with an entity that you voluntarily wanted to join for a mutually beneifical quid-pro-quo.

What have you not understood about the fact that we DON'T LIVE IN A FREE MARKET SOCIETY? I've been clear as day as why the weak "if you don't like it move on" argument doesn't work when we don't have many free choices to begin with. Apple works with the people with guns to get what they want-SO WHAT'S THE FUCKING DIFFERENCE IF THEY HAVE GUNS THEMSELVES? Why don't you shallow Jim Taggart worshippers go find you some Jim Taggart trading cards to collect since you love simplistic first grade libertarian stances so much-PRO MARKET! HURRAH! PRO-WEALTH HURRAH! Talk about not seeing the forest through the trees.

mad cow
07-30-2013, 09:23 PM
Sigh...another Jim Taggart fanatic here. You do realize that all of Congress is rich correct? So, the whining about Congress nauseates you? You people need to fallacy proof your simple knee jerk positions if this movement is to ever be taken seriously and so far it isn't. Let me guess, you're also a minarchist?

Also, you do realize that this stuff is only allowed to happen because there IS NO FREE MARKET right? In a completely free market, employers wouldn't even think of doing this underhanded bullshit. Even if they tried, the business would get immediate punishment by workers "walking out". These workers would be able to just "walk out" as you all seem to want them to BECAUSE they would have plenty of savings due to no taxation or inflation AND have dozens if not hundreds of other jobs waiting for them. However, since we DON'T have anything close to a free market and workers have no savings or other jobs to choose from, then most workers have less incentive to abandon their jobs. Their only recourse is to speak out like they've done and rightfully so.

Yeah!And in a completely free market,why would these people even be working for Apple in the first place when they could be working at dozens or hundreds of jobs at McDonald's and such at $95-$115/hour?

And if McDonald's didn't like it,they would just go down the street!

invisible
07-30-2013, 11:58 PM
I had something similar happen to me about 15 years ago. I had a job where I was required to drive back to the office, drop the company van off at 4:30, punch out, and THEN make a verbal report to the boss about my day's work (usually waiting with several other employees doing the same thing at the same time). I was being ripped off for anywhere from 10-25 minutes each day. I talked to someone in the company about it, and was told I would get nowhere by complaining, and could not come back into the office to give my report and THEN punch out at 4:30. So, I started punching out AFTER giving my report, when I actually walked out the door. Sure enough, the overtime failed to show up on my next paycheck. Within a week, I was working for a competitor for $2 an hour more, and not getting ripped off on my time. No reason why the Apple people can't do the same. If you want to retain good employees, treat them better and don't rip them off.

RickyJ
07-31-2013, 12:21 AM
Sure it is, but I don't have any sympathy for people who put up with being treated like that.

Did you read the article? They aren't putting up with it, they are suing Apple.

helmuth_hubener
08-02-2013, 01:44 PM
You also tried to use the "if you don't like it leave" argument wrapped in the gun in the room argument. However the gun argument (on Apple's side through State lobbying, law passing, influence etc.) is exactly WHY the game is rigged and the tables are tilted. I have simply described behavior. I did not use the phrase you claimed, nor any such similar argument ("if you don't like it leave"). I described the behavior the employees are engaging in. I believe my description to be accurate. If you found any part of my description inaccurate or for any reason not to your full satisfaction, please quote the offending sentence and explain and refute its inaccuracy. Your utmost satisfaction is our undying quest.

If for any reason whatsoever we are unable to meet your expectations, please return the post in question for a full refund.


Apple is a corporatist behemoth with very little respect for the elusive free market. The fact that Apple is using the State to get its way lessens the criticism against employees by doing the same back to them albeit in a lesser manner than Apple is doing behind the scenes. All of us have control only over our own actions. I would never, obviously, defend any anti-free market behavior by Apple. Rather, I would describe the behavior, explain why it was wrong, and condemn it as contrary to libertarianism.

Just as I did with these rapacious and covetous employees. (In fact, let's call them what they are: thieves. They are seeking to steal funds from a company which was treating them like potential thieves. Oh, the irony.)

No favorites. Just facts.

helmuth_hubener
08-02-2013, 02:04 PM
I had something similar happen to me about 15 years ago. I had a job where I was required to drive back to the office, drop the company van off at 4:30, punch out, and THEN make a verbal report to the boss about my day's work (usually waiting with several other employees doing the same thing at the same time). I was being ripped off for anywhere from 10-25 minutes each day. I talked to someone in the company about it, and was told I would get nowhere by complaining, and could not come back into the office to give my report and THEN punch out at 4:30. So, I started punching out AFTER giving my report, when I actually walked out the door. Sure enough, the overtime failed to show up on my next paycheck. Within a week, I was working for a competitor for $2 an hour more, and not getting ripped off on my time. No reason why the Apple people can't do the same. If you want to retain good employees, treat them better and don't rip them off. While one could certainly look at this as getting "ripped off" in one subjective sense, the sense of "man, what a rip off you're charging me $5 for a hot dog!", it is not getting ripped off in the sense of being actually cheated or defrauded. That's just an additional job duty, which they are voluntarily placing upon you and you are voluntarily accepting. It is just reducing your effective hourly rate down by whatever percentage that 10-25 minutes is of your work day. It's the same thing as if you agree to work for X per hour, but then get paid for two 10 minute breaks during the day as if you were working during them. In fact you are not working during those breaks. Yet you are charging your employer for them. Are you cheating or defrauding your employer? No, as long as he knows that taking such breaks will be your practice and agrees that is acceptable to him, all is on the up and up.

The employee and employer have the right to agree to pay the employee even when he is not working.
The employee and employer have the right to agree to have the employee do work even when he is not paid.

angelatc
08-02-2013, 02:19 PM
Did you read the article? They aren't putting up with it, they are suing Apple.


Which means they put up with it for quite a while. Me, I would have refused to clock out until after I was searched, and I'd be pretty open about my intentions to call the state labor board about the practice if it didn't change.

It's not like most people don't have these moments with their employers. Like HH says, you can rationalize it by knowing that your hourly wage isn't really quite as high. Or you can say no. But I have no use for these people who wouldn't stand up for themselves, and in fact, wouldn't stand up at all until the lawyers got a big group of them together. Mob mentality.

People are absolutely pathetic dumb sheep these days.

bolil
08-02-2013, 03:19 PM
I EMPLOY PEOPLE, this is bullshit. I give you a job because you're going to make more money for me if you don't you're gone. Its not a favor, its not a god given right its a job. I want my employees to be happy but asking them to stay for my benefit uncompensated is a great way to get them to hate you and then really steal you stuff.
You strike me as one of those 'I own you' employers. Perhaps, if you we're a better boss employees would do things off the clock of their own volition. Bullshit? I've never b even fired so that must some potent cow feces.

That being said, if they begin to have merchandise disappear from a store, it wouldn't be to hard to figure out who the theif(ieves)
Is. That they are not being paid? Looks like that is about to be worked out