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liberty2897
07-25-2013, 07:44 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/25/democratic-establishment-nsa

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/1/4/1325698548239/bachmann_quitting.jpg
One of the most vocal supporters of the Obama White House's position on yesterday's NSA debate: GOP Congresswoman Michele Bachmann of Minnesota. Photograph: Scott Olson/Getty Images


One of the worst myths Democratic partisans love to tell themselves - and everyone else - is that the GOP refuses to support President Obama no matter what he does. Like its close cousin - the massively deceitful inside-DC grievance that the two parties refuse to cooperate on anything - it's hard to overstate how false this Democratic myth is. When it comes to foreign policy, war, assassinations, drones, surveillance, secrecy, and civil liberties, President Obama's most stalwart, enthusiastic defenders are often found among the most radical precincts of the Republican Party.

The rabidly pro-war and anti-Muslim GOP former Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, Peter King, has repeatedly lavished Obama with all sorts of praise and support for his policies in those areas. The Obama White House frequently needs, and receives, large amounts of GOP Congressional support to have its measures enacted or bills its dislikes defeated. The Obama DOJ often prevails before the US Supreme Court solely because the Roberts/Scalia/Thomas faction adopts its view while the Ginsburg/Sotomayor/Breyer faction rejects it (as happened in February when the Court, by a 5-4 ruling, dismissed a lawsuit brought by Amnesty and the ACLU which argued that the NSA's domestic warrantless eavesdropping activities violate the Fourth Amendment; the Roberts/Scalia wing accepted the Obama DOJ's argument that the plaintiffs lack standing to sue because the NSA successfully conceals the identity of which Americans are subjected to the surveillance). As Wired put it at the time about that NSA ruling:

The 5-4 decision by Justice Samuel Alito was a clear victory for the President Barack Obama administration, which like its predecessor, argued that government wiretapping laws cannot be challenged in court."

The extraordinary events that took place in the House of Representatives yesterday are perhaps the most vivid illustration yet of this dynamic, and it independently reveals several other important trends. The House voted on an amendment sponsored by Justin Amash, the young Michigan lawyer elected in 2010 as a Tea Party candidate, and co-sponsored by John Conyers, the 24-term senior Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. The amendment was simple. It would de-fund one single NSA program: the agency's bulk collection of the telephone records of all Americans that we first revealed in this space, back on June 6. It accomplished this "by requiring the FISA court under Sec. 215 [of the Patriot Act] to order the production of records that pertain only to a person under investigation".

The amendment yesterday was defeated. But it lost by only 12 votes: 205-217. Given that the amendment sought to de-fund a major domestic surveillance program of the NSA, the very close vote was nothing short of shocking. In fact, in the post-9/11 world, amendments like this, which directly challenge the Surveillance and National Security States, almost never get votes at all. That the GOP House Leadership was forced to allow it to reach the floor was a sign of how much things have changed over the last seven weeks.

More significant than the closeness of the vote was its breakdown. A majority of House Democrats supported the Amash/Conyers amendment, while a majority of Republicans voted against it:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/7/25/1374738406126/rollcall.png


The full roll call vote is here. House Speaker John Boehner saved the Obama White House by voting against it and ensuring that his top leadership whipped against it. As the New York Times put it in its account of yesterday's vote:


Conservative Republicans leery of what they see as Obama administration abuses of power teamed up with liberal Democrats long opposed to intrusive intelligence programs. The Obama administration made common cause with the House Republican leadership to try to block it.

In reality, the fate of the amendment was sealed when the Obama White House on Monday night announced its vehement opposition to it, and then sent NSA officials to the House to scare members that barring the NSA from collecting all phone records of all Americans would Help The Terrorists™.

Using Orwellian language so extreme as to be darkly hilarious, this was the first line of the White House's statement opposing the amendment: "In light of the recent unauthorized disclosures, the President has said that he welcomes a debate about how best to simultaneously safeguard both our national security and the privacy of our citizens" (i.e.: we welcome the debate that has been exclusively enabled by that vile traitor, the same debate we've spent years trying to prevent with rampant abuse of our secrecy powers that has kept even the most basic facts about our spying activities concealed from the American people).

The White House then condemned Amash/Conyers this way: "This blunt approach is not the product of an informed, open, or deliberative process." What a multi-level masterpiece of Orwellian political deceit that sentence is. The highly surgical Amash/Conyers amendment - which would eliminate a single, specific NSA program of indiscriminate domestic spying - is a "blunt approach", but the Obama NSA's bulk, indiscriminate collection of all Americans' telephone records is not a "blunt approach". Even worse: Amash/Conyers - a House bill debated in public and then voted on in public - is not an "open or deliberative process", as opposed to the Obama administration's secret spying activities and the secret court that blesses its secret interpretations of law, which is "open and deliberative". That anyone can write a statement like the one that came from the Obama White House without dying of shame, or giggles, is impressive.

Even more notable than the Obama White House's defense of the NSA's bulk domestic spying was the behavior of the House Democratic leadership. Not only did they all vote against de-funding the NSA bulk domestic spying program - that includes liberal icon House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi, who voted to protect the NSA's program - but Pelosi's deputy, Steny Hoyer, whipped against the bill by channeling the warped language and mentality of Dick Cheney. This is the language the Democratic leadership circulated when telling their members to reject Amash/Conyers:

"2) Amash/Conyers/Mulvaney/Polis/Massie Amendment – Bars the NSA and other agencies from using Section 215 of the Patriot Act (as codified by Section 501 of FISA) to collect records, including telephone call records, that pertain to persons who may be in communication with terrorist groups but are not already subject to an investigation under Section 215."

Remember when Democrats used to object so earnestly when Dick Cheney would scream "The Terrorists!" every time someone tried to rein in the National Security State just a bit and so modestly protect basic civil liberties? How well they have learned: now, a bill to ban the government from collecting the telephone records of all Americans, while expressly allowing it to collect the records of anyone for whom there is evidence of wrongdoing, is - in the language of the House Democratic Leadership - a bill to Protect The Terrorists.

None of this should be surprising. Remember: this is the same Nancy Pelosi who spent years during the Bush administration pretending to be a vehement opponent of the illegal Bush NSA warrantless eavesdropping program after it was revealed by the New York Times, even though (just as was true of the Bush torture program) she was secretly briefed on it many years earlier when it was first implemented. At the end of June, we published the top secret draft report by the Inspector General's office of the NSA that was required to provide a comprehensive history of the NSA warrantless eavesdropping program secretly ordered by Bush in late 2001. That report included this passage:

"Within the first 30 days of the Program, over 190 people were cleared into the Program. This number included Senators Robert Graham and Richard Shelby, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, President George W. Bush, Vice President Richard Cheney, Counsel to the Vice President David Addington, and Presidential Assistant I. Lewis 'Scooter' Libby."


So the history of Democratic leaders such as Nancy Pelosi isn't one of opposition to mass NSA spying when Bush was in office, only to change positions now that Obama is. The history is of pretend opposition - of deceiving their supporters by feigning opposition - while actually supporting it.

But the most notable aspect of yesterday's events was the debate on the House floor. The most vocal defenders of the Obama White House's position were Rep. Mike Rogers, the very hawkish GOP Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, and GOP Congresswoman Michele Bachmann. Echoing the Democratic House leadership, Bachmann repeatedly warned that NSA bulk spying was necessary to stop "Islamic jihadists", and she attacked Republicans who supported de-funding for rendering the nation vulnerable to The Terrorists.

Meanwhile, Amash led the debate against the NSA program and repeatedly assigned time to many of the House's most iconic liberals to condemn in the harshest terms the NSA program defended by the Obama White House. Conyers repeatedly stood to denounce the NSA program as illegal, unconstitutional and extremist. Manhattan's Jerry Nadler said that "no administration should be permitted to operate beyond the law, as they've been doing". Newly elected Democrat Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii, an Iraq War combat veteran considered a rising star in her party, said that she could not in good conscience take a single dollar from taxpayers to fund programs that infringe on exactly those constitutional rights our troops (such as herself) have risked their lives for; she told me after the vote, by Twitter direct message, that the "battle [was] lost today but war not over. We will continue to press on this issue."

In between these denunciations of the Obama NSA from House liberals, some of the most conservative members of the House stood to read from the Fourth Amendment. Perhaps the most amazing moment came when GOP Rep. James Sensenbrenner - the prime author of the Patriot Act back in 2001 and a long-time defender of War on Terror policies under both Bush and Obama - stood up to say that the NSA's domestic bulk spying far exceeds the bounds of the law he wrote as well as his belief in the proper limits of domestic surveillance, and announced his support for Amash/Conyers. Sensenbrenner was then joined in voting to de-fund the NSA program by House liberals such as Barbara Lee, Rush Holt, James Clyburn, Nydia Velázquez, Alan Grayson, and Keith Ellison.

Meanwhile, in the Senate, Democrat Ron Wyden continues to invoke unusually harsh language to condemn what the NSA is doing under Obama. Here is some of what he said in a speech this week at the Center for American Progress, as reported by the Hill:

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) on Tuesday urged the United States to revamp its surveillance laws and practices, warning that the country will 'live to regret it' if it fails to do so.

"'If we do not seize this unique moment in our constitutional history to reform our surveillance laws and practices, we will all live to regret it . . . The combination of increasingly advanced technology with a breakdown in the checks and balances that limit government action could lead us to a surveillance state that cannot be reversed,' he added. . . .

"The government has essentially kept people in the dark about their broad interpretations of the law, he said. Wyden tells constituents there are two Patriot Acts: One they read online at home and 'the secret interpretation of the law that the government is actually relying upon.'

"'If Americans are not able to learn how their government is interpreting and executing the law then we have effectively eliminated the most important bulwark of our democracy," he said. . . .

"'This means that the government's authority to collect information on law-abiding American citizens is essentially limitless', he said."

Wyden's full speech - in which he makes clear that it is solely the disclosures of the last seven weeks that have enabled this debate and brought about a massive shift in public opinion - is remarkable and can be read here. That's a senior Democrat and a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee sounding exactly like Edward Snowden - and the ACLU - in denouncing the abuses of the American Surveillance State. Meanwhile, as soon as the House vote was over, Rep. Rush Holt, a long-time Democratic member of the House Intelligence Committee, introduced "The Surveillance State Repeal Act" that would repeal the legislative foundation for this massive spying, including the once-and-now-again-controversial Patriot Act, which the Obama administration in 2011 successfully had renewed without a single reform (after Democrat Harry Reid accused opponents of its reform-free renewal of endangering the Nation to The Terrorists).

To say that there is a major sea change underway - not just in terms of surveillance policy but broader issues of secrecy, trust in national security institutions, and civil liberties - is to state the obvious. But perhaps the most significant and enduring change will be the erosion of the trite, tired prism of partisan simplicity through which American politics has been understood over the last decade. What one sees in this debate is not Democrat v. Republican or left v. right. One sees authoritarianism v. individualism, fealty to The National Security State v. a belief in the need to constrain and check it, insider Washington loyalty v. outsider independence.

That's why the only defenders of the NSA at this point are the decaying establishment leadership of both political parties whose allegiance is to the sprawling permanent power faction in Washington and the private industry that owns and controls it. They're aligned against long-time liberals, the new breed of small government conservatives, the ACLU and other civil liberties groups, many of their own members, and increasingly the American people, who have grown tired of, and immune to, the relentless fear-mongering.

The sooner the myth of "intractable partisan warfare" is dispelled, the better. The establishment leadership of the two parties collaborate on far more than they fight. That is a basic truth that needs to be understood. As John Boehner joined with Nancy Peolsi, as Eric Cantor whipped support for the Obama White House, as Michele Bachmann and Peter King stood with Steny Hoyer to attack NSA critics as Terrorist-Lovers, yesterday was a significant step toward accomplishing that.

liberty2897
07-25-2013, 07:50 AM
http://defundthensa.com/

Cap
07-25-2013, 08:17 AM
For the record, Frothy is on board with Bachman and other anti-constitution/police state voices.

http://www.ydr.com/newsfull/ci_3818806


May 13, 2006 — People do not have a right to know the government is collecting information on their phone calls, U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum said during a Friday visit to Shippensburg.
Santorum said the ability of the National Security Agency to track phone calls is just another tool in the government's war against terrorism and not something that should have been made public.
"Obviously there are things the general public doesn't know . .. and shouldn't know," he told a (Chambersburg) Public Opinion reporter during a question-and-answer session following a visit to JLG Industries, manufacturer of the All Terrain Lifting Army System, in Cumberland County.
"I don't think it is an invasion of privacy."
He said the government's need to seek out terrorists has to be balanced against the public's right to privacy.
"We are at war with people who want to harm us," he said.

"This is a tool, just like NSA's surveillance program."
In an attempt to explain his point of view, Santorum said the database would help the intelligence community in its efforts to track down terrorists and the people they communicate with in this country.
"Say, for instance, we have Osama bin Laden's phone number. We would be able to find out who he is calling or who is calling him," he said. "No one is listening in on anyone's phone calls."The Associated Press reports the Bush administration is facing new questions about civil liberties after the disclosure that the NSA collected information on millions of Americans' everyday telephone calls.

Friday, CIA director nominee Michael Hayden defended as lawful the secret surveillance programs he oversaw as National Security Agency director, but he declined to comment on the phone-calls database or specific operations.
Santorum, meanwhile, blasted what he called a leak that brought the issue to the front pages of newspapers across the country.
He said the program to put together a database of the country's phone records has been "signed off" by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and is legal.
Asked if he thought the public had no right to know its phone calls were being tracked by the government, Santorum responded with an emphatic "yes.""Once the general public knows, the bad guys know," he said

liberty2897
07-25-2013, 08:21 AM
"Say, for instance, we have Osama bin Laden's phone number. We would be able to find out who he is calling or who is calling him," he said

Back from the dead again? Seems like ole frosty puts Bin Laden up there alongside his lord and savior.

ZENemy
07-25-2013, 08:37 AM
WE, WE the people need to shut these oath breakers DOWN!!!

They will not go away on their own.

Contumacious
07-25-2013, 08:39 AM
One of the most vocal supporters of the Obama White House's position on yesterday's NSA debate: GOP Congresswoman Michele Bachmann of Minnesota.

"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuehrer"

.

Carlybee
07-25-2013, 08:40 AM
Omg..cant wait for the first time people start saying Bachmann or Santorum would be a good VP choice for Rand...I am going to lmao.

Cap
07-25-2013, 08:41 AM
The reason I posted it is that in all probability, he will run again in 2016.

kcchiefs6465
07-25-2013, 08:42 AM
The reason I posted it is that in all probability, he will run again in 2016.
And Glenn Beck will endorse him.

Cap
07-25-2013, 08:48 AM
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuehrer"

.FIFY: Eine Leute, eine Partei, ein Führer

ZENemy
07-25-2013, 08:56 AM
And Glenn Beck will endorse him.

Really? I heard he is really getting it now!












:D :rolleyes:

angelatc
07-25-2013, 09:17 AM
The Democrats don't care about anything but money, either. The difference is that they pass it out to voters instead of corporations.

klamath
07-25-2013, 09:25 AM
The Democrats don't care about anything but money, either. The difference is that they pass it out to voters instead of corporations.
Actually not true. Democrats in a majority voted for Tarp.

angelatc
07-25-2013, 09:32 AM
Actually not true. Democrats in a majority voted for Tarp.

Sure, but the bankers gave more money to the Dems than the GOP that year.

The farm bill is a better example. The GOP broke it apart so they could fund corporate farms without handing out food stamps. The Democrats wanted both.

Lucille
07-25-2013, 09:34 AM
The Democrats don't care about anything but money, either. The difference is that they pass it out to voters instead of corporations.

That is true. All they really care about is redistribution of wealth, but the fascists in the blue jerseys spread it all around. They also shower cash and favors onto the Medical, Food, Prison, Insurance, and Military Industrial Complexes. And of course, the Bankstas:

http://www2.nationalreview.com/dest/2008/09/28/28bailout4.600.jpg

Looks like hella fun robbing the American people blind!

Contumacious
07-25-2013, 09:49 AM
FIFY: Eine Leute, eine Partei, ein Führer

Emphasis on Ein Partei

.

Cap
07-25-2013, 10:13 AM
Emphasis on Ein Partei

.Exactly

KEEF
07-25-2013, 10:16 AM
For the record, Frothy is on board with Bachman and other anti-constitution/police state voices.

http://www.ydr.com/newsfull/ci_3818806

Had a WTF? moment and then stopped reading it after the first line.
People do not have a right to know the government is collecting information on their phone calls, U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum said during a Friday visit to Shippensburg.

Bastiat's The Law
07-25-2013, 10:19 AM
Actually not true. Democrats in a majority voted for Tarp.

Here's a helpful reminder.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl_L6c3LYA8

KEEF
07-25-2013, 10:20 AM
http://www2.nationalreview.com/dest/2008/09/28/28bailout4.600.jpg



That picture of Pelosi looks like she just climaxed and got frothy in the legs.

Contumacious
07-25-2013, 10:32 AM
That picture of Pelosi looks like she just climaxed and got frothy in the legs.

The fascists are sexually aroused when screwing WE THE PEOPLE over.

.

CPUd
07-25-2013, 12:09 PM
LOL at Osama having a phone and making calls.

limequat
07-25-2013, 02:49 PM
LOL at Osama having a phone and making calls.

Now imagine him using Facebook to conduct terroristic activities.

limequat
07-25-2013, 02:50 PM
Every day is another day to love Glenn Greenwald.

Antischism
07-25-2013, 02:53 PM
Greenwald dropping truth bombs.

Brian4Liberty
07-25-2013, 03:34 PM
Related Tweets:


Democratic establishment unmasked: prime defenders of NSA bulk spying. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/25/democratic-establishment-nsa … #PrimaryThe83 #4thAmendment #CivilLiberties

https://twitter.com/USAB4L/status/360471118601134081


83 #Democrats voted against #CivilRights yesterday. Who will Primary them? See "No" votes: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml … #4thAmend #BillofRights

https://twitter.com/USAB4L/status/360468769803472897


Primary the Democrat 83 http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-statement-on-amash/conyers-amendment-to-end-dragnet-collection-of-americans-records … How did your Rep vote? http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml … #PrimaryDem83 #PrimaryGOP134 #NSA #AmashConyers

https://twitter.com/USAB4L/status/360497018487054336

Anti Federalist
07-25-2013, 04:30 PM
Greenwald dropping truth bombs.

This man is a literary pit bull.

Anti Federalist
07-25-2013, 04:32 PM
And Boobus gives them a 9% approval rating.

Yet re-elects them a + 90% rate

Which only indicates, yet again, why Boobus is called Boobus.

enhanced_deficit
07-25-2013, 07:23 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/25/democratic-establishment-nsa




http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/7/25/1374738406126/rollcall.png

This is very telling.

Great thread.