Please rank the top 10 states in which to live.

[Deborah K]

And please list your reasons. If there is already a thread on this, please post it or let me know. Thanks.

[compromise]

From a libertarian perspective?

In no particular order...
New Hampshire
Wyoming
Idaho
Montana
Texas
Maine
Michigan
Iowa
Minnesota
Alaska

[Bastiat's The Law]

New Hampshire for sure with their libertarian streak, but the influx of Massholes somewhat cancels that out. Still, definitely a top 10 state though.

[TaftFan]

Check out the Free State Project threads from 10 years ago when they were trying to pick a state:
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=d8a2kpd14sfk7tbo82pua7k1o5&board=5.0

[cjm]

And please list your reasons. If there is already a thread on this, please post it or let me know. Thanks.

What are you looking for? Virginia is the best place in the world for me, but it's not universally the best place for everyone.

[Deborah K]

From a libertarian perspective?

In no particular order...
New Hampshire
Wyoming
Idaho
Montana
Texas
Maine
Michigan
Iowa
Minnesota
Alaska

Idaho? hmmm.....why?

[Deborah K]

What are you looking for? Virginia is the best place in the world for me, but it's not universally the best place for everyone.

Least restrictive laws on issues like gun control, permitting structures, licensing to hunt, raise and grow food, surveillance. Job availability, government not in massive debt.

[pcosmar]

Depends on your priorities.
Michigan sucks in many ways,, but the UP,,,well I can survive here. I can walk into the woods and live.
The intense cold makes it forbidding to the weak. Once the state crashes,,most law enforcement will disappear,, then the good folks here will prosper..

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8112/8577369437_ec42c9f2f1_c.jpg

My driveway. ;)

[dannno]

1. California (Pros - legal, available medicinal herb, great climate, variety of places and cultures to choose to live in, lots of coastline. Cons - expensive, high taxes, regulations, gun laws)

2. Oregon

3. Washington

4. Colorado

5. New Hampshire

6. Maine

7. Montana

8. Wyoming

8. Idaho

9. Utah

10. New Mexico

[Deborah K]

New Hampshire for sure with their libertarian streak, but the influx of Massholes somewhat cancels that out. Still, definitely a top 10 state though.


Check out the Free State Project threads from 10 years ago when they were trying to pick a state:
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=d8a2kpd14sfk7tbo82pua7k1o5&board=5.0

I'm aware of the Free State Project in N.H.. Just wondering about other states, kind of thinking about leaving Cali.

[DamianTV]

What? Kaliphornia isnt on the list? /shocked!

[Deborah K]

What? Kaliphornia isnt on the list? /shocked!

It's on Danno's list. NOT mine! I hate the laws in this state. However, I love where I live right now, but the laws are getting outta control here.

[TaftFan]

I'm aware of the Free State Project in N.H.. Just wondering about other states, kind of thinking about leaving Cali.

The link I included has discussions on other states as well, such as Idaho and Wyoming.

I personally would not move to NH, as someone put it the Massholes are invading.

[eduardo89]

From a libertarian perspective?

In no particular order...
New Hampshire
Wyoming
Idaho
Montana
Texas
Maine
Michigan
Iowa
Minnesota
Alaska

Minnesota and Michigan??

[mad cow]

I like Kentucky,Rand and Massie,beautiful country with mild weather and plenty of water,reasonable acreage prices with low property taxes.
If I ever hit the lottery...

[dannno]

It's on Danno's list. NOT mine! I hate the laws in this state. However, I love where I live right now, but the laws are getting outta control here.

San Diego is a police state if I've ever seen one.. I try to stay north of LA by at least an hour.

[KEEF]

Depends on your priorities.
Michigan sucks in many ways,, but the UP,,,well I can survive here. I can walk into the woods and live.
The intense cold makes it forbidding to the weak. Once the state crashes,,most law enforcement will disappear,, then the good folks here will prosper..

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8112/8577369437_ec42c9f2f1_c.jpg

My driveway. ;)

I do love my Michigan, the nature is beautiful. I love just going outside to do fieldwork and enjoy every moment of just looking at the nature.

[mtr1979]

Guns: http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/03/14/ga-ranks-the-best-states-for-gun-owners-in-2013/
1 Arizona
2 Vermont
3 Alaska
4 Utah
5 Kentucky
6 Wyoming
7 Alabama
8 Kansas
9 Missouri
10 New Hampshire

Employment: http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm
1 NORTH DAKOTA 3.1
2 SOUTH DAKOTA 3.9
3 NEBRASKA 4.0
4 VERMONT 4.4
5 HAWAII 4.6
5 IOWA 4.6
5 WYOMING 4.6
8 UTAH 4.7
9 MINNESOTA 5.2
9 NEW HAMPSHIRE 5.2
9 OKLAHOMA 5.2

Best run states: http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2012/11/27/best-and-worst-run-states-in-union/
1 North Dakota
2 Wyoming
3 Nebraska
4 Utah
5 Iowa

[Deborah K]

Guns: http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/03/14/ga-ranks-the-best-states-for-gun-owners-in-2013/
1 Arizona
2 Vermont
3 Alaska
4 Utah
5 Kentucky
6 Wyoming
7 Alabama
8 Kansas
9 Missouri
10 New Hampshire

Employment: http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm
1 NORTH DAKOTA 3.1
2 SOUTH DAKOTA 3.9
3 NEBRASKA 4.0
4 VERMONT 4.4
5 HAWAII 4.6
5 IOWA 4.6
5 WYOMING 4.6
8 UTAH 4.7
9 MINNESOTA 5.2
9 NEW HAMPSHIRE 5.2
9 OKLAHOMA 5.2

Best run states: http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2012/11/27/best-and-worst-run-states-in-union/
1 North Dakota
2 Wyoming
3 Nebraska
4 Utah
5 Iowa

Thank you! This is great. +rep

[TaftFan]

Check out Mercatus's Freedom in the 50 States, a libertarian analysis: http://freedominthe50states.org/

I'll post some charts I did in a thread a while back that would help me decide the best and worst states to live in.

Map Gallery of Religion in the United States (http://www.valpo.edu/geomet/geo/courses/geo200/religion.html)

Population Density:
http://www.classesandcareers.com/education/wp-content/uploads/employment%20population%20density.jpg

Minority Percentage: (Not trying to be racist, but this country is being hyped up for a race war)
http://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2011/07/img/diversity_census.jpg

Forest Land:

http://0.tqn.com/d/forestry/1/0/K/t/fores_land_area.JPG

Elevation:

http://www.learnnc.org/lp/media/maps/usa_toporelief_1968_l.jpg

Precipitation map:

http://mapsof.net/uploads/static-maps/us_average_precipitation_map.png

[69360]

Maine
New Hampshire
Alaska
Idaho
North Dakota
South Dakota
Montana
Texas
Nevada
Wyoming

Everyone is going to tell you NH and it's good, but they have a serious masshole problem there.

[cjm]

Least restrictive laws on issues like gun control, permitting structures, licensing to hunt, raise and grow food, surveillance. Job availability, government not in massive debt.

opencarry.org has Virginia listed as one of its "gold star" states: http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=310


Virginia is one of our “Gold Star” open carry states. There is complete state preemption of all firearms laws, open carry is increasingly common and law enforcement is well educated as to its legality.

There was a list published a while back from another source that put Virginia 15th for gun rights, but that was behind states like Texas that have no open carry at all for sidearms. By my understanding of gun laws nationwide, I put Virginia just below the constitutional carry states with regard to respecting gun rights. So just behind AZ, VT, AK, and WY.

There is a lot of variance in the freedom culture statewide, but it's pretty strong in the western part of the state. You should put Virginia's 6th district on your research list. Notable residents include Joel Salatin and Karen Kwiatkowski. Eric Peters lives in the 9th just to the south.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/VA_6th_Congressional_District.png

Plenty of places to get non-ethanol gas too: http://pure-gas.org/extensions/map.html

[TaftFan]

More maps.

WEB SOIL SURVEY (Find out what the soil is good for where you live) (http://websoilsurvey.sc.egov.usda.gov/app/HomePage.htm)

Federally Owned Land:

http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/fed_land_large.png

Agricultural regions:
http://sisgeographywiki.wikispaces.com/file/view/agricultural_regions.gif/308200802/653x472/agricultural_regions.gif

[I<3Liberty]

Pennsylvania isn't on any of these lists!? UGH! I'm so done with this forum!

JK :D

It's all opinion unless you select a standard objective/set of objectives like crime or employment rate.

[TaftFan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLzV-QXpSNU

Joel Skousen talks strategic relocation. I don't have the book but if I planned on moving I would shell out and buy it.

http://www.amazon.com/Strategic-Relocation-Joel-Skousen/dp/156861053X

http://www.joelskousen.com/strategic.html

[TaftFan]

Concealed carry laws:

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/content/2012/concealed-weapon-laws-by-state/11951323-1-eng-US/Concealed-weapon-laws-by-state_full_600.jpg

Murder rate:
http://geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/US-Murder-Rtae-map.jpg

[tangent4ronpaul]

Was talking to a guy from TN the other day and he said most of the state had no building codes!

As to VA, I remember the state was cracking down on ppl making cheese and raw milk. Also, they have one horrid firearms law out there that has mandatory min sentences. I think it mostly had to do with having firearms near a school.

-t

[James Madison]

Pennsylvania isn't on any of these lists!? UGH! I'm so done with this forum!

JK :D

It's all opinion unless you select a standard objective/set of objectives like crime or employment rate.

Don't worry. Your homestate isn't a reflection on you. :)

[pcosmar]

In all those charts they show Michigan as one state,,which is misleading.

Detroit and Lansing (high population areas) skew the result(and screw the state). The UP is not the Lower Peninsula.

[Keith and stuff]

The link I included has discussions on other states as well, such as Idaho and Wyoming.

I personally would not move to NH, as someone put it the Massholes are invading.


Maine
Everyone is going to tell you NH and it's good, but they have a serious masshole problem there.

They aren't invading at all. The massholes aren't a problem other than watch out for people driving with MA plates. Since millions of people live in MA, and MA has much higher sales taxes, excise taxes and fees than NH, a ton of MA folks (same with ME, VT, CT and NY) shop/vacation/participate in outdoor activities in NH. That's part of the reason the quality of life is higher in NH than in the rest of the US. It's also partly why the taxes are so low, the government is so small, the pay is so high and the unemployment rate is the 2nd lowest in the East.

Sure, only 40% of the people living in NH were born in NH. That's not a problem to me. I encourage non-natives to move to NH, including all of you wonderful people ;) Sure, almost 25% of the population in NH is from MA. Again, that's not a problem. MA if by far the most likely place to find FSP movers. I'd love to move 1,000s of more liberty folks from MA. I know many great people, and even many legislators in NH that were born in MA. The MA folks that want socialism and to live in the woods often move to ME or VT. The MA folks that want major city life, often move to NYC. The MA folks that want a warmer climate often move to FL or even NC. The MA that want freedom often move to NH, along with the MA that want a cheap place to live since NH is the least expensive place to live in New England, largely because it has near the lowest taxes in the US and no general sales tax.

Keep in mind that in NH, unlike every other state, even the plurality of Democrats (including college kids that actually live in another state but sometimes vote in NH since they attend a NH college) are against against the creation of a personal income tax or a general sales tax. Heck, almost every other state already has both (there are 2 states besides NH that prohibit a statewide or local general sales tax, OR and DE).

You don't seem to understand the situation. What you meant to say is that lots of people from NJ/NY/CT used to move to NH before the great recession. That is true. You meant that a large percentage of those people, while socially pro-liberty on many issues, are in favor of a larger government than currently exists in NH. They moved here because NH had such an amazing economy, especially when it came to high tech and health care. Of course, that was before the Free State Project became well known in the area. Now, a lot of those types of people are scared of moving to NH. That's part of the reason population growth slowed so dramatically in NH. The better liberty does in NH and the better the world about the FSP gets out, the less likely socially partly pro-liberty statists are going to want to move to NH and the more likely pro-liberty folks are going to want to move to NH.

[tod evans]

If you're thinking of moving I'd look for climate and population density first, that's going to narrow your choices depending on what you want...

My understanding of upstate NY is that folks are a lot like the Ozarks except for the funny accent..

To me, neighbors are far more important than state lines.

[69360]

They aren't invading at all. Sure, only 40% of the people living in NH were born in NH. That's not a problem. Sure, 25% of the population in NH is from MA. Again, that's not a problem. I know many great people, and even many legislators in NH that were born in MA. The MA folks that want socialism and to live in the woods often move to ME or VT. The MA folks that want a warmer climate often move to FL or even NC. The MA that want freedom often move to NH, along with the MA that want a cheap place to live since NH is the least expensive place to live in New England, largely because it has near the lowest taxes in the US and no general sales tax.

You don't seem to understand the situation. What you meant to say is that lots of people from NJ/NY/CT used to move to NH before the great recession. That is true. You meant that a large percentage of those people, while socially pro-liberty on many issues, are in favor of a larger government than currently exists in NH. They moved here because NH had such an amazing economy, especially when it came to high tech and health care. Of course, that was before the Free State Project became well known in the area. Now, a lot of those types of people are scared of moving to NH. That's part of the reason population growth slowed so dramatically in NH.

You are sugarcoating it.

I'm in NH usually twice a month. You have a masshole problem, it's horrid in the summer, the summer massholes will drive you bonkers. We have the same problem here in Maine, it just took me 3 hours to drive 20 miles to the home depot and walmart to shop and back. In the winter it takes an hour.

The FSP is not well known. The population of NH is 1.3 million. The FSP is 1000. So it's maybe .1% of the population.

[Keith and stuff]

You are sugarcoating it.

I'm in NH usually twice a month. You have a masshole problem, it's horrid in the summer, the summer massholes will drive you bonkers. We have the same problem here in Maine, it just took me 3 hours to drive 20 miles to the home depot and walmart to shop and back. In the winter it takes an hour.

The FSP is not well known. The population of NH is 1.3 million. The FSP is 1000. So it's maybe .1% of the population.

I mentioned the folks from MA enjoying "shop/vacation/participate in outdoor activities in NH." I'm not sugarcoating it at all. The MA folks don't bother me at all. They may visit and as spend as much of their money in the NH economy as they want. I encourage them to visit early and often. I've never had a problem with people at a beach, lake or ski area. I don't go to them when they are crowded so the problem never exists for me.

http://freestateproject.org/

Participants:
14,480 of 20,000
Participants in NH:
1,176
In-state Friends:
1,412


Millions of people in the Northeast have heard of the FSP at least once. Some many times. That doesn't mean everyone remembers it, though. When people look up relocating to NH, it certainly pops up from time to time on the internet. When people talk to their friends about moving to NH, it also likely pops up from time to time. The more it pops up, the less likely the somewhat statist people are to move to NH.

I explained the situation as it is. You may disagree. IMO, though, if you disagree, it doesn't mean I'm going to change my opinion. My opinion is that you and TaftFan were putting out incorrect information, maybe because you didn't completely understand the situation and jumped to conclusions.

[catfeathers]

I like Kentucky,Rand and Massie,beautiful country with mild weather and plenty of water,reasonable acreage prices with low property taxes.
If I ever hit the lottery...

I'm not sure about the mild weather. I guess compared to some places it's mild but it can be very humid at least here in the mountains. Depending on where you buy the acreage might be more vertical than horizontal. We were lucky and found an old fixer-upper with about an acre that's fairly flat and doesn't flood.
It's not too bad for homeschooling though. And the guys can go out and shoot their guns in the yard.

[Dianne]

1. California (Pros - legal, available medicinal herb, great climate, variety of places and cultures to choose to live in, lots of coastline. Cons - expensive, high taxes, regulations, gun laws)

2. Oregon

3. Washington

4. Colorado

5. New Hampshire

6. Maine

7. Montana

8. Wyoming

8. Idaho

9. Utah

10. New Mexico

Wow I'm shocked anyone would say CA ... now they are coming up with digital license plates so they know where you are every second of the day? CA .... besides NY are the most intrusive states in the country ....

[DamianTV]

I'll try another perspective. Jobs.

Bottom of my list: Nevada. There are NO jobs here. Im sure places like Detroit have us beat by miles and miles. But who is at the TOP of the list for Jobs?

[Dianne]

Don't know what the best state is, but do know the worst or one of the worst.... besides N.Y. and CA ... and that is North Carolina ... North Carolina is the bankster state .... Personal income tax sky high to fund Bank of America and Wells Fargo's free tax ride.

Disgusting, corrupt state.. Amazing Obama picked this hell hole for the democratic convention... but then again ... the banksters have plenty of money laundered money to throw back his way.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO to North Carolina ... Run as fast as you can.

[Dianne]

How about North Dakota ... several areas close to the Canadian border... nothing happens in North Dakota .. No intrusive coked up Senators ... that I know of.

[Deborah K]

How about North Dakota ... several areas close to the Canadian border... nothing happens in North Dakota .. No intrusive coked up Senators ... that I know of.

Funny you should mention ND. A friend of Mark's just told us recently that there are jobs galore there - well paying jobs. I've lived in the SW my whole life though. I don't know if I can handle the frigid cold.

[malkusm]

From George Mason: http://freedominthe50states.org/

Go to "Personalize" (top right) and you can select which variables should be included in your rankings - probably the best way to choose what matters to you and get the answer that is best for you. (Note on all the menu items you can click the (+) sign and drill down into more specific criteria.)

Here are my rankings: http://freedominthe50states.org/custom/malkusm-rankings/calcdist/cbeert/cbluelaw/chappy/ckeg/dautouuc/dbelt/dcell/docont/dsobchk/ehscurr/ehslaw/ehsnoti/ehsrkr/ehsst/ehstq/emaps/emlpst/emrps/epscurr/lforf/dgamfel/dgrpi/dintgam/dsocgam/bguns/dfirewks/drawmilk/drecord/drfra/dtrans/sbldtest/ssame/swait/cmjindex/csalvia/iindex/rarrests/rdrenrat/rincarcr/rvcarrst/adebtpi/ainctot3/aslgpi/hbfip/hirr/hmindex/hmspec/hsgrr/hsrp/gminwag/grtw/frent/frtp/fspeech/fwrluri/mindex/nhoirr/niiprc/npairr/nrcp/kexam/kfees/oliabrk/jclsifc/jtdereg

1. North Dakota
2. South Dakota
3. Tennessee
4. Oklahoma
5. New Hampshire
6. Idaho
7. Utah
8. Virginia
9. Alaska
10. Missouri

ETA: Ironically, I live in the state that my rankings put dead last (New York - #50) - and you live in the state that they put next to last!

[Keith and stuff]

And please list your reasons. If there is already a thread on this, please post it or let me know. Thanks.
10 states is a lot to ask. I'll do some.

1. New Hampshire. It has by far the largest liberty community per capita in the world so if you like being around liberty people, it's substantially better than anywhere else. It has most of the unique things that people look for in a state: historic past, access to major cities, access to major transportation, access to major entertainment events, mountains (including the most hiked mountains in the Western World), rivers, large lakes, the ocean, near-by states with different cultures, a foreign border, an excellent job market, very low crime, very low poverty... NH is also the freest or near about state and the 1 state where a plan that might work to actually increase freedom exists.
2/4/5. States that are near NH but more appealing to you. For example, if you cannot imagine yourself living anywhere other than a $2,000 a month luxury apartment near a subway line, you can live in Boston but enjoy much of what NH has to offer, whenever you want. If you believe medical care is a human right, you can live in VT on the border with NH. If you are certain that the world will end soon, you can have a lake cabin in NH but your main house a couple hours away in ME.
6/7. A winter home/trailer/RV/studio in AL/FL on or near the Gulf Coast. The Gulf Coast has white sand, pretty water that is pleasant to swim in, access to major entertainment and something for most people's budget. It is also more protected from ocean storms than the Atlantic Coast in FL/GA/SC. It isn't a nice place to be in the summer unless you spend almost all of your time indoors or in the water, though.

[mad cow]

I'm not sure about the mild weather. I guess compared to some places it's mild but it can be very humid at least here in the mountains. Depending on where you buy the acreage might be more vertical than horizontal. We were lucky and found an old fixer-upper with about an acre that's fairly flat and doesn't flood.
It's not too bad for homeschooling though. And the guys can go out and shoot their guns in the yard.

Yeah,mild is relative.Not as hot and humid as points south,not as gosh darn cold as States to the north,but still with four seasons which I would like,especially with all the hardwoods.No earthquakes or hurricanes,very few tornados and fewer blizzards.

It is hurricane season here in southeast Virginia and I sweat through every one.I have 2 acres of swampland that sits about 5 feet above mean low water and I can hit standing saltwater with a rock at low tide from my back porch.
Underhanded.

[James Madison]

Anyways, here are my thoughts.

-----Best States-----

1. Idaho
Pros: Boise is One of the Country's Best Cities (Clean, Low Crime, Increasing High-Tech Presence, Strong Economy), Decent Tax and Gun Laws, Gorgeous Forests in
the Panhandle, Excellent Retreat Sites, Coeur D'Alene, Surprisingly Warm Climate Due to Maritime Influence
Cons: Average Soil, Winters are Bad Near Yellowstone and the Canadian Boarder

2. Wyoming
Pros: No Major Population Centers, Frontier Spirit in Much of State, Good Tax and Firearms Laws
Cons: No Major Population Centers, Harsh Climate, Food Would Be Hard to Come By in a Collapse Scenario, Gave Us Dick Cheney

3. Utah
Pros: Nice People, Beautiful Landscape, Excellent Retreat Sites, Decent Population Centers
Cons: Most Land is Federally Owned, Isolated, Climate Can Be Harsh, Poor Soil, Majority LDS Population (if that isn't your thing)

4. Montana
Pros: Good Tax Laws, Strong Gun Rights, Retreat Sites in Western Part of the State, Libertarian Bent in Local Politics
Cons: Harsh Climate, Increasing West Coast Presence in Goverment, Massive Nuclear Weapon Field near Great Falls, Majority of Land is Federally Owned, Little to No
Available Farmland

5. Tennessee
Pros: Favorable Tax Laws, Warm Climate, Good People, Strong Economy With Many Job Opportunities, Eastern Tennessee is a Great Retreat Site
Cons: Surrounded By Large Population Centers (Memphis, Nashville, Atlanta), Humid, Ice Storms in the Winter

6. Arizona
Pros: Solid Gun Rights, Excellent Retreat Sites in the North, Climate is Warm Year-Round
Cons: Poor Soil, Water Must Be Brought In From Other States, Proximity to U.S.-Mexican Boarder

7. New Hampshire
Pros: Tax Laws are Decent, Libertarian Representation at Local and State Level, Scenic Forests
Cons: Proximity to East Coast Population Centers, High Latitiude Climate, Massholes

8. Colorado
Pros: Beautiful Scenery, Great Retreat Sites, Were it Not For Denver, Colorado Would Be My Top Pick
Cons: Most Residents Are Either West Coast Liberals or Evangelical Christian Conservatives, Worsening Gun Rights, Increasing Tax Rates, Denver is Basically the
Washington D.C. of the West

9. Kentucky
Pros: Great Farmland, Friendly People, Eastern Kentucky is a Great Retreat Site
Cons: Environmental Regulations Have Really Hurt the State's Economy, Inferior in Almost Every Way to Its Neighbor Tennessee

10. Alaska
Pros: No Income Tax, Plenty of Open Space, Gun Laws, Strong Libertarian Bent
Cons: Punishing Climate, Wild Animals Can Be Extremely Dangerous, Isolated, Dependent On Imports For Much of the Year, At Risk of Being Occupied By Asian Powers


-----Worst States-----

10. California
Pros: Excellent Climate Along the Coastline, Near Unlimited Agricultural Potential
Cons: Terrible Gun Laws, High Taxes, Heavy Risk of Natural Disasters, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland

9. New York
Pros: Adirondacks Are Beautiful, Western New York State is Alright, Fun Place to Visit
Cons: New York City, Tax Laws, Non-Existent Gun Rights, Epicenter of the Police State, Massive Risk of Social Unrest

8. Massachusetts
Pros: Northwestern Part of the State is Nice
Cons: Everything Else

7.Delaware
Pros: None
Cons: Horrific Tax Laws, Gun Rights are Non-Existent, Proximity to Urban Centers

6. Maryland
Pros: Western Part of the State Isn't Bad...
Cons: ...Everywhere Else Is, Horrible Tax Laws, No Gun Rights, Densely Populated, Massive Urban Centers, Baltimore, Huge Potential For Social Unrest

5. Florida
Pros: Warm Climate Can Be Nice in Times of Peace
Cons: 'Do Not Inhabit' Region in a Collapse Scenario, Hot, Humid, High Risk of Hurriances, Insects Can Be Overwhelming Without Pesticide, East, West, South Escape
Routes Cut-Off By Ocean, Poor Climate for Growing Most Crops

4. Connecticut
Pros: None
Cons: Highest Cost of Living, Abysmal Gun Laws, High Taxes, Densely Populated and Close to Massive Urban Centers

3. New Jersey
Pros: None
Cons: High Cost of Living, Very High Population Density, Massive Population Centers on All Sides, Terrible Laws, East and South Escape Routes Impeded by Seawater

2. Hawaii
Pros: Tropical Climate
Cons: Completely Isolated From Mainland, Impossible to Evacuate, Terrible Gun Laws, High Risk of Natural Disasters (Earthquakes, Volcanoes, Hurricanes), Likely to be
Occupied in the Future

1. Rhode Island
Pros: None
Cons: Horrible Tax Laws, Gun Rights Are Abysmal, Highest Population Density of Any State, Surrounded On All Sides By Massive Population Centers

[MelissaWV]

Some of your lists are startlingly full of incorrect information.

[TaftFan]

Funny you should mention ND. A friend of Mark's just told us recently that there are jobs galore there - well paying jobs. I've lived in the SW my whole life though. I don't know if I can handle the frigid cold.

It's largely oil field related, though some also attribute it to the state bank.

[ronpaulfollower999]

I'd say the best state is the state of happiness.

Worst states are state of confusion, state of shock, state of fear, state of denial, and state of panic.

[WM_in_MO]

Considering that St Charles county welt to Ron Paul last year... I'll stay here in SCC MO!

[eduardo89]

I'd say the best state is the state of happiness.

Worst states are state of confusion, state of shock, state of fear, state of denial, and state of panic.

The best state is engorged.

[ronpaulfollower999]

The best state is engorged.

Is that pope approved behavior?

[Halo]

Also consider north-east Oregon. I recently bought a 20 acre farm (5 acres useable, the rest too rugged) in Wallowa Co. 120 large fruit and nut trees with plenty of great deer-fenced soil for other crops. It's lower (1700 ft.) than nearly all the land around it so it affords a much longer growing season.
7,000 people in the county and zero stop lights. Open carry is common. My place is even isolated for this area, next to a river full of fish and surrounded by great hunting.
The downside in comparison to Idaho is that it's attached politically to the Californicated cities west of the Cascades.

I've lived in SoCal my whole life but this is not the place to be in a fast collapse. 20 million people with ocean on one side and desert on the other? No thanks.

[klamath]

Central panhandle of Idaho. Places in Idaho CO- Orofino, Kamiah. Voted for RP. No building code. Masses of wild cherry, plum raspberry black berry, fairly good to excellent soil, especially on the Palouse plateau, good fish and game populations, timber and grassland. Winters not too bad along the Clearwater river.
Drawback, my FNL will kill me when more GD libertarians move there now.

[James Madison]

Central panhandle of Idaho. Places in Idaho CO- Orofino, Kamiah. Voted for RP. No building code. Masses of wild cherry, plum raspberry black berry, fairly good to excellent soil, especially on the Palouse plateau, good fish and game populations, timber and grassland. Winters not too bad along the Clearwater river.
Drawback, my FNL will kill me when more GD libertarians move there now.

This would be my choice as well. And more libertarians can only be a good thing. ;)

Here's a listing of available property. It will give you an idea of what to expect.

http://www.landwatch.com/Idaho_land_for_sale/Idaho

[fisharmor]

What are you looking for? Virginia is the best place in the world for me, but it's not universally the best place for everyone.

It's the best for me, too.
Mountains. Rivers. Ocean. A huge bay. Forests.
Fishing. Hunting. Trapping.
HISTORY.

Seasons. Today it was the hottest day of the year - and the hottest day I remember in a long time - 97. In a lot of other states, that would simply be called "Thursday".
It might drop below freezing for 15-20 days of the year. Enough to get occasional snow, but not walls of the stuff.

Multiculturalism without socialism. I don't know of another state where you get that. I can get Pho or Tapas or Brazilian Barbecue and I can do it strapped.

VCDL. No state-based gun rights organization compares.

Plus, Daniel Harmon-Wright is in prison here.

[James Madison]

Also consider north-east Oregon. I recently bought a 20 acre farm (5 acres useable, the rest too rugged) in Wallowa Co. 120 large fruit and nut trees with plenty of great deer-fenced soil for other crops. It's lower (1700 ft.) than nearly all the land around it so it affords a much longer growing season.
7,000 people in the county and zero stop lights. Open carry is common. My place is even isolated for this area, next to a river full of fish and surrounded by great hunting.
The downside in comparison to Idaho is that it's attached politically to the Californicated cities west of the Cascades.

I've lived in SoCal my whole life but this is not the place to be in a fast collapse. 20 million people with ocean on one side and desert on the other? No thanks.

Oregon would be Top 5 easily were it not for Portland. Pretty much the Illinois of the West Coast, in that regard.

[Ender]

Like the high mountains of Utah.

People are nice and considerate of their neighbors. Communities are very prepared and organized to help each other. Snow season isn't bad and is also not desert hot in the summer. Lots of cattle ranches and farms, but still close to cultural cities. Gun laws are the least restrictive. Also, running streams and rivers.

[cjm]

It's the best for me, too.
Mountains. Rivers. Ocean. A huge bay. Forests.
Fishing. Hunting. Trapping.
HISTORY.

Seasons. Today it was the hottest day of the year - and the hottest day I remember in a long time - 97. In a lot of other states, that would simply be called "Thursday".
It might drop below freezing for 15-20 days of the year. Enough to get occasional snow, but not walls of the stuff.

Multiculturalism without socialism. I don't know of another state where you get that. I can get Pho or Tapas or Brazilian Barbecue and I can do it strapped.

VCDL. No state-based gun rights organization compares.

Plus, Daniel Harmon-Wright is in prison here.

Great summary. I like the phrase "multiculturalism without socialism." I'm more of a Gyro fan myself, but there's something for everyone here. There are even hippies in Floyd County (9th CD). Here's a writeup from Garden and Gun magazine (basically the Sunset magazine for the South):


Floyd, Virginia
Music is only one of this town’s high notes
Population: 432

Why You Should Move Here To oversimplify Floyd, Virginia’s charms, think of a modern-day Mayberry—with a good Mexican cantina. But, really, Floyd is more interesting than that. Tucked just beneath the Blue Ridge Parkway, atop a mountain plateau at roughly 2,500 feet, Floyd has redbrick storefronts and an easygoing, eco-minded style. While a sign hanging outside the Floyd Country store reads Loitering Allowed, and just down the street sits the Mayberry-esque Floyd Barber Shop (no kidding), the town and its outlying farmland are as likely populated by people who abandoned urban careers when their woodworking or weaving hobbies took off as they are by farmers whose families have been here for centuries.

more at: http://gardenandgun.com/article/southern-dream-towns-0/page/0/1

As for the VCDL, is there a national gun rights organization that compares???

See you on lobby day, brother!

[oyarde]

Some of the worst commie states have been listed here . At the same time , much is geographical within a state, taxes , anti liberty laws etc for the most are not .That eliminates the west coast . There are many choices,but you may not like the climates, you have the UP in Michigan, too cold for me in my old age, Northern Idaho, the Dakotas, Southern Indiana, Kentucky, pretty much down hill fom there....

[BuddyRey]

Does anyone know how the various U.S. Outlying Islands and Territories rank alongside the states? For example, I'm really interested in the Virgin Islands since they went for Ron Paul last year.

More importantly, do you need a passport to travel to these locations?

[James Madison]

Does anyone know how the various U.S. Outlying Islands and Territories rank alongside the states? For example, I'm really interested in the Virgin Islands since they went for Ron Paul last year.

More importantly, do you need a passport to travel to these locations?

I would not recommend an Island. They are often dependent on imports, prone to occupation, and are at high risk of natural disasters. Most importantly, a boat or plane is your only method of transportation should you have to flee.

[James Madison]

Does anyone know how the various U.S. Outlying Islands and Territories rank alongside the states? For example, I'm really interested in the Virgin Islands since they went for Ron Paul last year.

More importantly, do you need a passport to travel to these locations?

I would not recommend an Island. They are often dependent on imports, prone to occupation, and are at high risk of natural disasters. Most importantly, a boat or plane is your only method of transportation should you have to flee.

[daviddee]

...

[HOLLYWOOD]

Tax Foundation's listing on all sorts of costs... per State, Counties, Cities...

http://taxfoundation.org/tax-topics/state-tax-and-spending-policy

(http://taxfoundation.org/tax-topics/state-tax-and-spending-policy)The Tax Foundation (http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/26016.html), a tax research group in Washington, DC, provides these numbers for the 20 Lowest State Property tax Rates on Owner-occupied Housing in the USA in 2008:


.14% Louisiana
.32% Alabama
.43% Delaware
.43% Washington DC
.47% Mississpippi
.48% West Virgina
.49% South Carolina
.51% Arkansas
.51% New Mexico
.54% Wyoming
.56% Utah
.57% Arizona
.58% Colorado
.61% California
.63% Nevada
.66% Idaho
.67% Tennessee
.69% Virgina
.70% Kentucky
.72% Oklahoma


(http://taxfoundation.org/tax-topics/state-tax-and-spending-policy)

[daviddee]

...

[cjm]

In all those charts they show Michigan as one state,,which is misleading.

Detroit and Lansing (high population areas) skew the result(and screw the state). The UP is not the Lower Peninsula.


Yeah,mild is relative.Not as hot and humid as points south,not as gosh darn cold as States to the north,but still with four seasons which I would like,especially with all the hardwoods.No earthquakes or hurricanes,very few tornados and fewer blizzards.

It is hurricane season here in southeast Virginia and I sweat through every one.I have 2 acres of swampland that sits about 5 feet above mean low water and I can hit standing saltwater with a rock at low tide from my back porch.
Underhanded.

I agree with both posts. Locally, western Virginia has more in common with West Virginia and eastern Kentucky than it has with coastal Virginia. It's probably good to look at geographic regions in addition to political boundaries. The densely populated NoVA and tidewater regions skew the results for western Virginia as well.

[PierzStyx]

1. California (Pros - legal, available medicinal herb, great climate, variety of places and cultures to choose to live in, lots of coastline. Cons - expensive, high taxes, regulations, gun laws)

2. Oregon

3. Washington

4. Colorado

5. New Hampshire

6. Maine

7. Montana

8. Wyoming

8. Idaho

9. Utah

10. New Mexico


California is the worst state to live in. . It is the most anti-freedom state in the nation. You are more of a slave in CA than in anywhere else in the Union. Well it ties with New York

[PierzStyx]

This is easily do-able. I give you the Freedom in The 50 States project http://freedominthe50states.org/ which ranks all the states according to their personal and economic freedoms.

[eduardo89]

California is the worst state to live in. . It is the most anti-freedom state in the nation. You are more of a slave in CA than in anywhere else in the Union. Well it ties with New York

I'd say New York, New Jersey, California, and Cook County are the worst places you can live.

[invisible]

Ok, having lived in several states, I can't resist this one. I'll start with the bottom of the barrel: PA, MD, and IA. MD has vehicle inspections and lots of regulation at every level of government. Property taxes are somewhat low if you buy in a (previously, this has probably changed over the last 10 years with the housing bubble) undervalued neighborhood. PA is worse than MD, has even more regulation and property taxes are double. The hoops to jump through to register a car in PA are awful, and inspection requirements are even worse than MD. DE is similar, roughly about the same as MD, but with PA level property taxes to offset the lack of a sales tax. Utilities are astronomical. The cities are crawling with all sort of inspectors, out to write violations for anything possible to make up for their budget shortfalls. But at least in these states, cops in most areas have better things to do than to mess with average people. In IA, property taxes vary depending on location. No vehicle inspections here either, making it cheap to buy a car and get it on the road. However, IA is quite socially intolerant except for the more populated areas and college towns. The worst thing about IA is that they have probably more cops per capita than any other state. Tons and tons of bored cops everywhere, with very little real crime, and nothing to do but mess with people. I've been hassled more by cops in IA than anywhere else.

Now to the fun part. After wanting to get the hell out of MD and PA, I moved to NH and lived there for a while. I hate to say it, but I was unimpressed. Actually, to be honest, I thought it sucked. Yes, you absolutely DO have a small handful of freedoms there that you do not have anywhere else, but this is cancelled out by being an overall lousy place for the average person to live. Cost of living is extremely high, even higher than the mid-atlantic states have become. Move to NH, and just from what it costs for housing, your standard of living WILL be lowered unless you come from NYC, CA, or HI. So what if you don't pay sales or income tax? You end up paying MORE overall in what it costs to live there! The fact that apartments and rooms are rented by the WEEK to make the price seem lower is saying a lot, I've never seen that anywhere else except for the most low end of low end rentals. Unless you're all set to buy a house, even finding a place to live at any price is a huge hassle unless you know someone who is willing / able to give you an inside track. You call a number seen on a "for rent" sign or on craigslist, and it's virtually impossible to get a landlord to call you back. You have to practically beg someone to rent you even the most shoddy and overpriced room or apartment (I've never run into this problem anywhere else I've ever lived). As difficult as it already is, it becomes virtually impossible if you happen to have a dog. Sure, NH has "low unemployment". But good luck actually finding work that pays significantly more than the minimum wage, unless you're a software or aerospace engineer. For the average working-class person, the job market in NH sucks, and in this respect, you're better off in the mid-atlantic states that have the same or slightly lower cost of living. Self-employment was FAR more difficult (more like impossible) in NH than any other place I've ever lived. Like MD and PA, vehicle inspections make it very expensive to buy a car and get it on the road. Property taxes are absolutely awful. Best things about NH: Not having to wear a seatbelt (I absolutely HATE seatbelt laws), open carry is allowed everywhere as a matter of course, socially tolerant environment, and even though there is very little real crime, cops seem to hassle people less here than anywhere else I've ever been. After living in NH for over a year, having my standard of living reduced to rock bottom (try cramming the contents of a 2600 square foot house into the only single room you can afford and are able to rent), and being all but unable to make a living, it was past due to get the hell out of there. Sorry, but I don't call freedom not being able to actually keep any of the little money you're able to make, and having to pay it all out just to attempt to cram everything you own into the tiniest space that you had to beg someone to rent to you. That simply isn't worth not having to wear a seatbelt, being able to walk around on the street with a gun, and being able to say that you pay "low" taxes.

So, I decided to start over yet again in another state, but this time, I started from a different perspective. Through additional research, I discovered a "housing affordability index" map (unfortunately, I can't seem to find it again quickly to post here for reference). This nifty little map measured states by the hours needed to work at minimum wage, to be able to afford to rent an "average" (taken as a statewide average over what was advertised on craigslist for whatever period of time they measured) 2 bedroom apartment. Needless to say, NH scored very close to the bottom, and the mid-atlantic states weren't very far behind. However, the eye-popping revelation here was that there seemed to be a handful of states in the south that were virtually unaffected by the housing bubble, and that it appeared that there really were places still existing where one could start over in life (after having your friendly local government steal your paid-for house through eminent domain - yes, this actually happened to me, I literally lost the result of my entire life's work), and actually be able to retain a halfway decent standard of living. Next was the issue of where to find freedom in these places, and could it be done on a scale comparable to NH? After undertaking further research and comparing the laws in this handful of southern states, the answer was a resounding YES!

So, where did I end up? My vote for the top state: OKLAHOMA! By a WIDE margin! Cost of living is FAR lower than MT, ID, and WY, going by advertised rents and home prices on craigslist and the MLS. NO vehicle inspections, meaning that you can buy and car and get it on the road for dirt cheap. For LESS than what I paid for a ROOM in NH, I now have a 2 bedroom HOUSE with a garage and a large yard. Utilities here are dirt cheap, a fraction of what they cost in the northeast. My landlord actually went out of my way to get my business and retain it, he actually asked me to rent his place instead of the other way around. Finding work here is easy, plenty of it to go around, and "help wanted" signs everywhere for all sorts of positions. Two months after I moved here, work started coming to me, and I now have more work than I can keep up with. Plenty of vacant houses here available for cheap, so I hope to get back into real estate soon and buy another house for cash or on contract (I don't do business with banks). Plenty of property available cheaply (almost a tenth of the cost of the cheapest land available anywhere in NH), and if you buy outside of town limits, there are NO zoning laws, building inspections, or permits needed (this situation only exists in very few places in NH, very rural and out of the way places). I'll eventually build my own off-grid house, and if anyone else wants one, I'll be glad to build them one and will eventually post on this in the marketplace part of the forums, now that I've spilled the beans here. OK has about the most lax homeschooling laws in the country, and is strong on guns rights. No helmet laws, and fireworks are legal, just as in NH. Property taxes are dirt cheap, and more than offset having a sales and income tax (those taxes are largely avoidable anyways, whereas a property tax is impossible to avoid!) for an average person's income level. Just as in NH, both obombacare and real id are nullified. Unlike NH, a music and art scene actually exists without having to drive to another state (it helps that a bar can just be a bar without having to derive at least 50% of their income from restaurant sales, as in NH). The only hassle cops seem to give anyone is speeding tickets on the highways. There is a vibrant and active group of dedicated activists here that are quite welcoming to newcomers. Remember the parking lot rump convention? Overall, OK is everything that I had hoped NH would be, and then some! Anyone care to join me? I'd be glad to help anyone else who would like to move to a place that is at least the equal of NH as far as freedom goes, if not better. Perhaps NH would be better for you. It wasn't for me, and I have no doubt whatsoever that OK is THE place, life is good here, as good if not better than I've ever had it before.

No doubt I'll get my share of detractors who will flame me for daring to say anything negative about NH, and to suggest that someplace else is actually better for the average type of person. To them, I'll simply smile and nod. I've lived in both places, I like it far better here, and I'm entitled to have that opinion, just as they may have theirs.

Edit: Although this report is newer and measures the "housing affordability index" slightly differently than what I had seen before, the map contained here shows the same thing:
http://nlihc.org/oor/2012
Compare the states where housing is the most affordable. OK is one of the absolute lowest, NH is one of the highest. Of all the states where the cost of housing is highest, NH has the most freedom by far. Of all the states where the cost of housing is the lowest, OK has the most amount of freedom by far. And all things considered, OK is at least equal with regards to freedom as NH, if not better.

Edit #2: Being used to the states mentioned above, OK was a bit of culture shock for me. People actually do walk around here in 10 gallon hats, string ties, and cowboy boots, you are very much so in the south here. You meet someone, and one of the first questions they ask is what church you go to (my answer: I avoid it religiously). You walk into a business, and instead of "smoking prohibited by law", the sign on the door says "no firearms".

[enoch150]

Anyways, here are my thoughts.

-----Best States-----

1. Idaho
Pros: Boise is One of the Country's Best Cities (Clean, Low Crime, Increasing High-Tech Presence, Strong Economy), Decent Tax and Gun Laws, Gorgeous Forests in
the Panhandle, Excellent Retreat Sites, Coeur D'Alene, Surprisingly Warm Climate Due to Maritime Influence
Cons: Average Soil, Winters are Bad Near Yellowstone and the Canadian Boarder

2. Wyoming
Pros: No Major Population Centers, Frontier Spirit in Much of State, Good Tax and Firearms Laws
Cons: No Major Population Centers, Harsh Climate, Food Would Be Hard to Come By in a Collapse Scenario, Gave Us Dick Cheney

3. Utah
Pros: Nice People, Beautiful Landscape, Excellent Retreat Sites, Decent Population Centers
Cons: Most Land is Federally Owned, Isolated, Climate Can Be Harsh, Poor Soil, Majority LDS Population (if that isn't your thing)

4. Montana
Pros: Good Tax Laws, Strong Gun Rights, Retreat Sites in Western Part of the State, Libertarian Bent in Local Politics
Cons: Harsh Climate, Increasing West Coast Presence in Goverment, Massive Nuclear Weapon Field near Great Falls, Majority of Land is Federally Owned, Little to No
Available Farmland

5. Tennessee
Pros: Favorable Tax Laws, Warm Climate, Good People, Strong Economy With Many Job Opportunities, Eastern Tennessee is a Great Retreat Site
Cons: Surrounded By Large Population Centers (Memphis, Nashville, Atlanta), Humid, Ice Storms in the Winter

6. Arizona
Pros: Solid Gun Rights, Excellent Retreat Sites in the North, Climate is Warm Year-Round
Cons: Poor Soil, Water Must Be Brought In From Other States, Proximity to U.S.-Mexican Boarder

7. New Hampshire
Pros: Tax Laws are Decent, Libertarian Representation at Local and State Level, Scenic Forests
Cons: Proximity to East Coast Population Centers, High Latitiude Climate, Massholes

8. Colorado
Pros: Beautiful Scenery, Great Retreat Sites, Were it Not For Denver, Colorado Would Be My Top Pick
Cons: Most Residents Are Either West Coast Liberals or Evangelical Christian Conservatives, Worsening Gun Rights, Increasing Tax Rates, Denver is Basically the
Washington D.C. of the West

9. Kentucky
Pros: Great Farmland, Friendly People, Eastern Kentucky is a Great Retreat Site
Cons: Environmental Regulations Have Really Hurt the State's Economy, Inferior in Almost Every Way to Its Neighbor Tennessee

10. Alaska
Pros: No Income Tax, Plenty of Open Space, Gun Laws, Strong Libertarian Bent
Cons: Punishing Climate, Wild Animals Can Be Extremely Dangerous, Isolated, Dependent On Imports For Much of the Year, At Risk of Being Occupied By Asian Powers


-----Worst States-----

10. California
Pros: Excellent Climate Along the Coastline, Near Unlimited Agricultural Potential
Cons: Terrible Gun Laws, High Taxes, Heavy Risk of Natural Disasters, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland

9. New York
Pros: Adirondacks Are Beautiful, Western New York State is Alright, Fun Place to Visit
Cons: New York City, Tax Laws, Non-Existent Gun Rights, Epicenter of the Police State, Massive Risk of Social Unrest

8. Massachusetts
Pros: Northwestern Part of the State is Nice
Cons: Everything Else

7.Delaware
Pros: None
Cons: Horrific Tax Laws, Gun Rights are Non-Existent, Proximity to Urban Centers

6. Maryland
Pros: Western Part of the State Isn't Bad...
Cons: ...Everywhere Else Is, Horrible Tax Laws, No Gun Rights, Densely Populated, Massive Urban Centers, Baltimore, Huge Potential For Social Unrest

5. Florida
Pros: Warm Climate Can Be Nice in Times of Peace
Cons: 'Do Not Inhabit' Region in a Collapse Scenario, Hot, Humid, High Risk of Hurriances, Insects Can Be Overwhelming Without Pesticide, East, West, South Escape
Routes Cut-Off By Ocean, Poor Climate for Growing Most Crops

4. Connecticut
Pros: None
Cons: Highest Cost of Living, Abysmal Gun Laws, High Taxes, Densely Populated and Close to Massive Urban Centers

3. New Jersey
Pros: None
Cons: High Cost of Living, Very High Population Density, Massive Population Centers on All Sides, Terrible Laws, East and South Escape Routes Impeded by Seawater

2. Hawaii
Pros: Tropical Climate
Cons: Completely Isolated From Mainland, Impossible to Evacuate, Terrible Gun Laws, High Risk of Natural Disasters (Earthquakes, Volcanoes, Hurricanes), Likely to be
Occupied in the Future

1. Rhode Island
Pros: None
Cons: Horrible Tax Laws, Gun Rights Are Abysmal, Highest Population Density of Any State, Surrounded On All Sides By Massive Population Centers

Connecticut has much more bad than good, but Every state has SOMETHING good about it. In recent years Connecticut has certainly gotten worse on taxes, guns, and eminent domain, but it has improved in other areas, like gay marriage, marijuana, and immigrant protections. Do you know there are some states that don't even allow strippers to actually strip? Shocking, I know, but Connecticut isn't one of them. The Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island area have by far the fewest deaths per capita from natural disasters out of anywhere in the country. They have very few tornadoes, earthquakes, or wildfires, hurricanes are mild, and snowstorms are mild near the shore. Saying that an entire state is densely populated can be misleading. In Connecticut, 70% of the population lives in just 3 counties (out of 8). Most of the towns outside of those counties don't even have a local police force, and still have very low crime.

It just depends on what you're looking for.

From what I've seen and read, the Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia area might be the best option.

[Keith and stuff]

Tax Foundation's listing on all sorts of costs... per State, Counties, Cities...

http://taxfoundation.org/tax-topics/state-tax-and-spending-policy

(http://taxfoundation.org/tax-topics/state-tax-and-spending-policy)The Tax Foundation (http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/26016.html), a tax research group in Washington, DC, provides these numbers for the 20 Lowest State Property tax Rates on Owner-occupied Housing in the USA in 2008:


.14% Louisiana
.32% Alabama
.43% Delaware
.43% Washington DC
.47% Mississpippi
.48% West Virgina
.49% South Carolina
.51% Arkansas
.51% New Mexico
.54% Wyoming
.56% Utah
.57% Arizona
.58% Colorado
.61% California
.63% Nevada
.66% Idaho
.67% Tennessee
.69% Virgina
.70% Kentucky
.72% Oklahoma


(http://taxfoundation.org/tax-topics/state-tax-and-spending-policy)
Those numbers are almost useless. Average property taxes paid is a far more useful number per home. Those numbers are from 2008. Property taxes is just 1 part of 4 sets of taxes that makes up state and local personal taxes. Then there is the taxes folks pay to other states to consider. Then you might want to compare this as a percentage of state per capita income.

States like CA, NJ, NY, CT and MN usually come out near the worst. States like AK, SD, TN and NH usually come out near the best. Though, since the cost of living is so incredibly high, even with very low taxes in the rural parts of AK, the overall cost of living is higher when taxes are aded in and the quality of live tends to be a lot lower than a place like MN or NH.

[invisible]

Those numbers are almost useless. Average property taxes paid is a far more useful number per home. Those numbers are from 2008. Property taxes is just 1 part of 4 sets of taxes that makes up state and local personal taxes. Then there is the taxes folks pay to other states to consider. Then you might want to compare this as a percentage of state per capita income.

States like CA, NJ, NY, CT and MN usually come out near the worst. States like AK, SD, TN and NH usually come out near the best. Though, since the cost of living is so incredibly high, even with very low taxes in the rural parts of AK, the overall cost of living is higher when taxes are aded in and the quality of live tends to be a lot lower than a place like MN or NH.


Bingo! This is absolutely correct. You can't just look at only one set of numbers when considering taxes. And you have to remember that some "taxes" are hidden as part of the "cost of living".
Property tax (largely regressive and completely unavoidable)
Income tax (avoidable legally to at least some degree for states having one)
Sales tax (avoidable legally to at least some degree for states having one)
Utility "tax" (most places require you to have utilities by law, really only avoidable by living off-grid)
Housing cost "tax" (an "inflation tax", via the housing bubble, for both renting and purchasing)
Regional variation "tax" in cost of food and gas
ALL of these have to be considered together to get an accurate picture of the whole, and all of them vary in different locations.

The trick is how these all balance out together, such that you are able to keep as much as possible of your earnings (which of course is one way to measure degrees of freedom). This will vary according to both your income and location, due to the nature of these different costs. But that is still not all, because quality of life / standard of living also factor in, and affect your freedom. Average income levels on a local and statewide basis DO also play a role in how all of the above balances out. It's all tied together in one way or another, and it all has to be considered in addition to the differences in actual laws between the states.

[fisharmor]

So, where did I end up? My vote for the top state: OKLAHOMA!

I'm glad you found somewhere you liked, and I realize that everyone's going to trade off some things to find it. Lord knows I'm trading a couple things.

But Oklahoma features way, way too often in certain stories here.
I don't give a flying crap through a rolling donut how great it is in Oklahoma or Ohio or Idaho, as long as they keep showing up in police abuse threads.

Like I said, here in Virginia, Daniel Harmon-Wright is in prison.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Too many tornados in Oklahoma.

[klamath]

Oregon would be Top 5 easily were it not for Portland. Pretty much the Illinois of the West Coast, in that regard. Yeaw Oregon has that same problem as IL and CA. Population centers holding them down. Central and northeast Oregon has some great places.

[BuddyRey]

I would not recommend an Island. They are often dependent on imports, prone to occupation, and are at high risk of natural disasters. Most importantly, a boat or plane is your only method of transportation should you have to flee.

Still, you've got to admit that there probably wouldn't be much Federal law enforcement presence there in the event of a collapse, at least, relative to what there would be on the mainland. Plus, the dependence on exports could be circumvented by growing your own food.

I guess I was more curious about how they stack up legislatively, especially alongside libertarian strongholds in the mountain west, like Wyoming or Montana. Do we have any Virgin Islanders on RPF's?

[PaulConventionWV]

Idaho? hmmm.....why?

Because it's a cold, deserted wasteland like every other state on that list except for Texas and maybe Iowa?

But hey, liiibertyyyyy.... right?

[klamath]

Because it's a cold, deserted wasteland like every other state on that list except for Texas and maybe Iowa?

But hey, liiibertyyyyy.... right?Shows how little you know.

[jtap]

Concealed carry laws:

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/content/2012/concealed-weapon-laws-by-state/11951323-1-eng-US/Concealed-weapon-laws-by-state_full_600.jpg




Alabama is a shall issue state now (as of May 2013) and recognizes all other state CCW permits.

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/state-legislation/2013/5/alabama-governor-signs-omnibus-firearms-reform-bill-into-law.aspx

[James Madison]

Connecticut has much more bad than good, but Every state has SOMETHING good about it. In recent years Connecticut has certainly gotten worse on taxes, guns, and eminent domain, but it has improved in other areas, like gay marriage, marijuana, and immigrant protections. Do you know there are some states that don't even allow strippers to actually strip? Shocking, I know, but Connecticut isn't one of them. The Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island area have by far the fewest deaths per capita from natural disasters out of anywhere in the country. They have very few tornadoes, earthquakes, or wildfires, hurricanes are mild, and snowstorms are mild near the shore. Saying that an entire state is densely populated can be misleading. In Connecticut, 70% of the population lives in just 3 counties (out of 8). Most of the towns outside of those counties don't even have a local police force, and still have very low crime.

It just depends on what you're looking for.

From what I've seen and read, the Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia area might be the best option.

My list is based on what states offer the best long-term survival options. Connecticut may be an ok place now, but in a collapse scenario its proximity to large population centers, lack of safe retreat sites, and restrictive gun laws make it difficult to recommend under any scenario.

[HOLLYWOOD]

That's an example... use the fucking link I provided to research the measurements, dates, costs, taxes, fees, etc. Sheesh, people are getting lazy round here.


Those numbers are almost useless. Average property taxes paid is a far more useful number per home. Those numbers are from 2008. Property taxes is just 1 part of 4 sets of taxes that makes up state and local personal taxes. Then there is the taxes folks pay to other states to consider. Then you might want to compare this as a percentage of state per capita income.

States like CA, NJ, NY, CT and MN usually come out near the worst. States like AK, SD, TN and NH usually come out near the best. Though, since the cost of living is so incredibly high, even with very low taxes in the rural parts of AK, the overall cost of living is higher when taxes are aded in and the quality of live tends to be a lot lower than a place like MN or NH.

[Fredom101]

1. California (Pros - legal, available medicinal herb, great climate, variety of places and cultures to choose to live in, lots of coastline. Cons - expensive, high taxes, regulations, gun laws)

2. Oregon

3. Washington

4. Colorado

5. New Hampshire

6. Maine

7. Montana

8. Wyoming

8. Idaho

9. Utah

10. New Mexico

I can be down with CA as #1 for the reasons you give + the strong entrepreneurial spirit.

Not sure I'd put NM on there. Seems like a beautiful place that's also a cesspool, no?

[Keith and stuff]

That's an example... use the... link I provided to research the measurements, dates, costs, taxes, fees, etc. Sheesh, people are getting lazy round here.

Fair enough. Some of the info there was useful. I've already seen all of that data before, as you might imagine. I'll +Rep you.

[Deborah K]

This is the problem with weed. Pot heads will tolerate most any conditions as long as they can have their weed.

Politicians realize this.

I suspect we will eventually hear, "Well yeah, the taxes suck, the random strip searches suck, the bi-annual sodomy sucks, but the weed is legal... it all balances out".

ROFL! +rep for laughs.

[Deborah K]

The property taxes are going to be the key issue for all citizens of all countries going forward.

Governments don't want to cut and businesses are drying up. The solution? Raise property taxes higher.

There is a cascading effect with this though. As property taxes rise, the odds of selling your home decrease.

Homestead exemptions, Massachusetts style "Proposition 2.5", and similar legal "protections" restrict how much your assessed value can go up in a given year but it does not affect how much the millage rate can be raised.

So, in Florida, those that thought the homestead exemption would protect them from out of control counties are waking up to the fact that it provided no protection against millage rate increases. I know of one county in Florida that will be raising the millage rate by 33% this year and possibly more.

If you are in a "no income tax", "no sales tax", or other accounting gimmick state that balances their budgets on the back of homeowners... you need to watch out.

Like......Texas? I'm not seeing Texas on any lists.

[Contumacious]

And please list your reasons. If there is already a thread on this, please post it or let me know. Thanks.

1. Puerto Rico, my birth place,

2. Oregon

3. Washington

4. Colorado

5. Texas

6. Florida

7. Montana

8. Wyoming

8. Idaho

9. Utah

10. New Mexico

.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Those least populated states look very attractive.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/USA_states_population_map_2011_color.png

[Pericles]

Like......Texas? I'm not seeing Texas on any lists.

Probably the primary reason along with no open carry of handguns - you can open carry everything else, including Patriot anti - aircraft missiles, just not handguns and knives with blades over 6 inches long.

[Keith and stuff]

Originally Posted by daviddee
The property taxes are going to be the key issue for all citizens of all countries going forward.

Governments don't want to cut and businesses are drying up. The solution? Raise property taxes higher.

There is a cascading effect with this though. As property taxes rise, the odds of selling your home decrease.

So, in Florida, those that thought the homestead exemption would protect them from out of control counties are waking up to the fact that it provided no protection against millage rate increases. I know of one county in Florida that will be raising the millage rate by 33% this year and possibly more.

If you are in a "no income tax", "no sales tax", or other accounting gimmick state that balances their budgets on the back of homeowners... you need to watch out.

In almost all of the communities, the voters themselves are the executive branch of the town. They set the town and school budgets. If they want property taxes to go up, the taxes go up. If they want property taxes to go down, property taxes go down. Some parts of NH don't even have property taxes. In some parts, the voters decide they wanted very high property taxes.

It various from community to community. For someone looking to pay very little taxes and live in the lower 48, NH is the place to be as long as you choose to move to a low or no property tax community. If by chanc, you decide to live in an average property tax community, you can work with your neighbors to encourage the people of the town to support a town spending cap, a town tax cap, a school spending cap or all of them. You can even pay very little property taxes in a high tax community if you live in an inlaw apartment, basement, RV or trailer on someone else's property.

What you said might be true in places like FL, but it doesn't fit NH. There is no general sales tax here, there is no personal income tax here. The main reason why the tax foundation doesn't consider NH the second lowest state for state and local taxes is because it also consider state residents pay in another state. Something like 25% of NH workers work in another state, so the taxes those workers pay to other states is averaged in. I don't work out of state. My property taxes are just about nothing.

How people live is up to them but NH offers more oppurtunities for tax avoidance than any other state.

[LukeP]

I do not recommend New Hampshire. I do recommend Washington, no comment on any other states.

[eduardo89]

Not sure I'd put NM on there. Seems like a beautiful place that's also a cesspool, no?

NM is a federal welfare state. It receives $2.50 in federal money for every $1 it sends to DC. It's extremely reliant on the MIC. There are three massive USAF bases (Holloman, Cannon, Kirtland), as well as a missile testing range, and army proving grounds, and Los Alamos nuclear lab. Something like 15% of the state is employed directly or indirectly by the military.

[cjm]

Those least populated states look very attractive.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/USA_states_population_map_2011_color.png

Here's population density by county. It gives you a better idea of where the people are. TX is yellow (most populated) on the map above, but you can see that most Texans live in the east and there's a whole lot of nothing in west Texas. You can fit several other States into that sparsely populated area. And as pcosmar noted, there aren't many people in UP Michigan either.

http://www.census.gov/popest/data/maps/2011/PopDensity_11.jpg

[Southron]

Does it really matter where you live as long as you have free and open migration? Even a paradise would be destroyed in a matter of time if anyone was allowed in.

[Ender]

Guns: http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/03/14/ga-ranks-the-best-states-for-gun-owners-in-2013/
1 Arizona
2 Vermont
3 Alaska
4 Utah
5 Kentucky
6 Wyoming
7 Alabama
8 Kansas
9 Missouri
10 New Hampshire

Employment: http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm
1 NORTH DAKOTA 3.1
2 SOUTH DAKOTA 3.9
3 NEBRASKA 4.0
4 VERMONT 4.4
5 HAWAII 4.6
5 IOWA 4.6
5 WYOMING 4.6
8 UTAH 4.7
9 MINNESOTA 5.2
9 NEW HAMPSHIRE 5.2
9 OKLAHOMA 5.2

Best run states: http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2012/11/27/best-and-worst-run-states-in-union/
1 North Dakota
2 Wyoming
3 Nebraska
4 Utah
5 Iowa


Of these lists only Utah & Wyoming are on all three.

[FunkBuddha]

Check out the forums at walkingtofreedom.com

Oh, and I recommend checking out the Hiwassee river watershed in the lower eastern part of the legal construct known as Tennessee. ;)

[LukeP]

Don't forget that you also have to live in close proximity to the people in the state that you choose to move to.

[MelissaWV]

Don't forget that you also have to live in close proximity to the people in the state that you choose to move to.

Not really. If you look at the population density map, you could be miles and miles and miles away from the people in the state that you choose to move to :)

[tod evans]

Not really. If you look at the population density map, you could be miles and miles and miles away from the people in the state that you choose to move to :)

^^^^^^^^^^^ This! ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Why would a semi-rational person intentionally move to a city?

[daviddee]

...

[daviddee]

...

[Keith and stuff]

Before I left the USA, I had a guy looking at my house who was from Texas.

Exact quote, "Yeah, the property taxes are too high in Texas. I currently pay $35K a year and if I buy your house I cut my property taxes by 2/3s".

I thought $12K a year was bad. $35K I would go crazy.

NH was worse though. When I left NH I was paying a small fortune every year.
I pay pretty much no property tax. I pay no general sales tax, don't rent cars, don't stay in motels and almost never eat at restaurants, gas taxes are low and I frequently ride a bike or walk, liquor is tax free, I don't pay income tax. I get it that if you had a lot of dividends money coming in and didn't structure your finances in such a way as to avoid the dividends tax, that you might have high taxes on that. I sorry about that and your experience in NH.

People have the greatest ability to practice tax avoidance in NH of any state. However, that doesn't necessarily mean people will practice it. Some people even like paying high taxes. I'm OK with that. The great part about that is, they can pay high taxes in NH if they want to and I may pay low taxes if I want.

NH certainly isn't perfect. No state is even semi close to perfect politically. However, NH is about the freest now and the only place where there is a plan that might actually increase freedom anytime soon.

It also has the highest quality of life, near the lowest crime, the best educated, the lowest poverty, and so on and so forth. If people like entertainment, care about their children and enjoy the outdoors, NH is the best state to live.



We need a rule that if you live in a state you can't beat its drum. Bias blocks reality in many cases... .
There is likely some truth to that. Though I have been to all 50 states. Most of them multiple times. And it is not I was born in NH or have lived here all of my life. I have also done more research comparing and contrasting regions, states and cities than anyone else on this forum. Well, that may not be true but I've done well over 500 hours or search on the subject.

[Zippyjuan]

State of Bliss
State of Confusion
State of Denial
State of Zen
State of Oblivion
All better than Lying In State (dead).

[daviddee]

...

[Keith and stuff]

No need to apologize for the state. I just grow tired of seeing people with an agenda pushing the state of NH without fully disclosing the numerous issues that people who move there might experience.

I didn't apologize for the state :) NH has problem, but less so than other places. What's more, there is a large group of people that have gone substantially further to not only identify the NH problems, but to come up with partial solutions. We have a substantially larger (per capita), better connected and more helpful community of liberty activists than in other states. Not on
Y are there far more resources dealing with liberty activists moving to NH and are those resources more useful than in other states, but there are half a dozen annual events in NH designed to encourage people to visit NH, talk to people, see things, learn stuff and get a feel for the place. You likely know of at least 2 of them, Porcfest and Liberty Forum.



If you choose not to own anything, not buy anything, not have any revenue, not work in Massachusetts, etc. Then NH is great... even CA would be great in that situation. A minimalist can live most anywhere with little or no expenses. Sadly, most people do like buying stuff, do like driving cars, will have to work in Massachusetts, etc.

I own a lot of things. I buy a lot of things. I make a living. Thankfully, NH does not have a general sales tax, it might even tax less services than any other state, there is also no liquor tax nor a tax on average or above average cigars. The gas tax is also 1 of the lowest in the nation. Edit, according to you source, in 2011, 13% of the NH workforce worked in MA. http://www.concordmonitor.com/news/4554367-95/statebudget-incometax-newhampshireadvantage Some of those people pay no state income taxes, some of those people pay a little state income taxes, some pay average. For example, if you are a delivery driver and you live in NH but your route is in another state, chances are you aren't paying state income taxes. If you live in NH but work from home 30 hours a week and in CT 10 hours a week, you only pay CT income taxes on the 10 hours a week you work in CT. If you live in NH and do all of your work outside of the state but work in security, you pay no state income tax. If you take a wifi bus to Boston 4 days a week, the work you do on the bus is not taxed but the work you do at the Boston office is taxed, that is, if you work for a decent company.

Every states has many, many problems and it makes no sense that you keep downing on the state with the least issues, by far the best community and the best future prospects for liberty, not to mention the highest quality of living in the nation.

[daviddee]

...

[Pericles]

25% of NH residents don't work in NH. This should be a big blinking light for those considering moving to NH. NH's economy relies heavily upon MA.

Source: http://www.concordmonitor.com/news/4554367-95/statebudget-incometax-newhampshireadvantage

Quote from article:


$257 Million dollars paid in income taxes by NH residents. NH will eventually have an income tax, the business owners will fight it (as it will raise their costs), but the Mass-holes will push it through. All of this, given the circumstances, is somewhat reasonable as 25% are already paying it and they are getting raped on their property taxes to compensate for the state's spending. NH is very anti-ownership and anti-business. They tax property at massive rates, the state very much favors monopolies, etc etc.

NH the asterisk state* - where every statement needs an asterisk

NO INCOME TAX* - 25% of our residents work in states with income tax - sorry
NO LIQUOR TAX* - The State of NH owns all liquor stores (seriously) - http://www.concordmonitor.com/home/4653649-95/liquor-percent-sales-state
NO SALES TAX* - The State of NH has some of the highest property taxes to compensate for it
NO INCOME TAX* - Yeah, but we will pork you on corporate taxes, property taxes, and dividend taxes
LOW GAS TAXES* - Yeah, but your savings are vaporized by having to drive to another state for a job

End of rant on NH. I do these once a year so people at least hear an opposing view on NH.

That is why I'm not there and won't be.

[LukeP]

Not to mention NH seems to have an older population IMO. I lived in Portsmouth which is like the coolest city in NH and it was not very exciting.

[enoch150]

My list is based on what states offer the best long-term survival options. Connecticut may be an ok place now, but in a collapse scenario its proximity to large population centers, lack of safe retreat sites, and restrictive gun laws make it difficult to recommend under any scenario.

In a collapse scenario where long term survival is necessary taxes, current economy, and even gun laws are meaningless. On the other hand things like extreme cold (Alaska?), limited water (Arizona?), and even proximity to nuclear power plants should be of greater concern.

http://crasstalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/USNuclearPowerPlants.jpg

[klamath]

In a collapse scenario where long term survival is necessary taxes, current economy, and even gun laws are meaningless. On the other hand things like extreme cold (Alaska?), limited water (Arizona?), and even proximity to nuclear power plants should be of greater concern.

http://crasstalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/USNuclearPowerPlants.jpgOld old map. At least two of those nuclear plants in CA have been closed 20-30 years.

[Keith and stuff]

Source: http://www.concordmonitor.com/news/4554367-95/statebudget-incometax-newhampshireadvantage
Quote from article:
Then there are the 87,000 New Hampshire residents, about 13 percent of New Hampshire's workforce, who work in Massachusetts. This brings an interesting twist to the 'New Hampshire Advantage': These 87,000 New Hampshire residents pay about $235 million in income tax to Massachusetts each year!

In addition, 11,000 New Hampshire residents work in Maine, paying $16 million in income taxes to Maine. And 8,500 New Hampshire residents work in Vermont and pay about $6 million in income taxes to that state. And New Hampshire gets none of this $257 million per year from 19 percent of its own workforce! The reason: New Hampshire has no income tax and therefore no right of reciprocity.

Thanks for the correction. Yeah, it's about 13% of the NH workforce works in MA. I was thinking of 2008 info that said almost 25% of NH residents were from MA. Since movers from MA dramatically slowed down after the great recession started, maybe that's as low as 21% or so now. I don't know for sure.

It is true that NH is smaller than the average state and that southern NH has the best interstates in the US. Because of that (and there are decent highways in VT/MA/ME connecting to NH) that lots of people tend to live in 1 New England state, shop for many things in another, work in another, send their kids to college in another, vacation in another and so on. So yeah, NH folks are dependent on Boston for having near the highest paying jobs in the US and being a major source of entertainment (musicals, pro-sports, concerts) and MA folks are dependent on NH have no taxes on most alcohol, no taxes on cigars, low gas taxes, no bottle deposits, to buy fireworks, to buy swords, the ski, for the lakes, to hike and so on. It is a great relationship and allows NH to have the lowest taxes in the lower 48 and people in NH to have the highest quality of life in the US. It's part of the reason NH is ranked the best place to raise kids.


NH will eventually have an income tax, the business owners will fight it (as it will raise their costs), but the Mass-holes will push it through. All of this, given the circumstances, is somewhat reasonable as 25% are already paying it and they are getting raped on their property taxes to compensate for the state's spending.
Actually, as far as I know, NH is the only state where even Democrats are opposed to an income tax. In fact, the Democrats that win the Democratic primary for governor usually win because they are opposed to a state income tax and a general sales tax. Opposing those 2 taxes are the 2 most important issues in the Democratic primary. So, obviously, NH isn't going to get an income tax with Democrats, Undeclareds and Republicans opposing it, especially when a bunch of free staters are moving to NH. You know this, yet you misinform, which is disappointing.



They tax property at massive rates, the state very much favors monopolies, etc etc.
NH is very anti-ownership and anti-business.
The majority of people in some of the towns of NH do like some government services, and without the ability to create a statewide or local income or sales tax, they are left with supporting increasing property taxes to pay for the services they want. And so, that's what the voters do in some towns in NH. NH isn't anti-ownership, though. In fact, the law is designed via the current use policy to encourage people to own larger amounts of land. If you own over 10 acres and put 10 of your acres in current use, there is almost no property tax on it. You can continue to use it to farm, to hunt, to swim in, for fruit trees, for logging or whatever you are using it for but the property taxes go down to almost nothing. And that's in the communities with property taxes. Some places don't even have property taxes to begin with.

As for monopolies, New Hampshire's Constitution specifically says that 1 of the points of the government and legislature is to prevent private sector monopolies.

For small businesses with 1-3 employees, NH is 1 of the small most business friendly states in the nation. No personal income taxes, no general sales tax, and almost no state business taxes, especially if you know how to run a business. You get to carry your loses forward for years, and even the gains count against them. You can give yourself a salary of $75,000 tax free, no questions asked. Put the rest back in the business and there you go.

New Hampshire is #3 for small business friendly states
http://nhfreedom.wordpress.com/2013/04/02/new-hampshire-is-3-for-small-business-friendly-states/

According to the 2013 Thumbtrack.com Small Business Survey, New Hampshire is #3 for small business friendly states. New Hampshire is #2 for ease of starting a business and licensing regulations. New Hampshire is #4 for regulatory friendliness. New Hampshire also receives an A+ in ease of hiring, health and safety and tax code.

However, while NH has about the lowest taxes in the US, it does have a government. The government is funded somehow. And yes, business taxes are high for larger companies in NH. Yet, often, large companies would rather be located in NH than in near-by states, even if this 1 group is singled out by the NH tax code to actually pay high taxes. Again, NH isn't perfect, just the best there is and the place most likely to get better sooner.


NO INCOME TAX* - 25% of our residents work in states with income tax - sorry Sorry, again, that was my mistake. Thanks for the correction. That's not a problem. MA if by far the most likely place to find FSP movers. I'd love to move 1,000s of more liberty folks from MA. I know many great people, and even many legislators in NH that were born in MA. The MA folks that want socialism and to live in the woods often move to ME or VT. The MA folks that want major city life, often move to NYC. The MA folks that want a warmer climate often move to FL or even NC. The MA that want freedom often move to NH, along with the MA that want a cheap place to live since NH is the least expensive place to live in New England, largely because it has near the lowest taxes in the US and no general sales tax.


NO LIQUOR TAX* - The State of NH owns all liquor stores (seriously)
This isn't true. NH is 1 of 18 alcoholic beverage control states. That means that most liquor and wine have to pass through the government at some point, in order to be legally sold. Most liquor stores in NH are run by the government but 3 are run by small businesses. NH's liquor system could use a lot of work, and free staters have helped pass several reform bills, but it is still arguably the best system in the US. NH has the lowest liquor prices in the county, and some of the best available hours in the country. There are also massive liquor stores located directly on the interstates. The NH government making a small profit on the sale of most liquor and wine in NH helps keep NH with the about the lowest taxes in the US.


NO SALES TAX* - The State of NH has some of the highest property taxes to compensate for it
NH has the largest variation in property taxes in the nation, from nothing to very high, depending on what people in that community decide they want. In NH towns, the people themselves decide the budget. You point it good to know but not useful in convincing a single person 1 way or another. Since this and similar threads are about where is the best place to live/move to, someone moving to NH could decide to live in a community without property taxes, with low property taxes, in a way without property taxes or low property taxes.


NO INCOME TAX* - Yeah, but we will pork you on corporate taxes, property taxes, and dividend taxes
Hardly. Again, NH has just about the lowest overall taxes of anywhere in the US. The corporate taxes are high for large companies only. The property taxes are only high for people that want to have a small amount of land in a high property tax area. The dividend taxes are low in NH and for most people, easy to avoid completely.


LOW GAS TAXES* - Yeah, but your savings are vaporized by having to drive to another state for a job
That is just you trolling me. Which is fine. I've responded to enough of your trolling though ;)

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

That is just you trolling me. Which is fine. I've responded to enough of your trolling though ;)


*snicker*

That's one hell of a giant post you just made, only to conclude with that. lol

[Keith and stuff]

Not to mention NH seems to have an older population IMO. I lived in Portsmouth which is like the coolest city in NH and it was not very exciting.

Portsmouth is actually the young and exciting place to be in NH. Right next to it is a university with 14,000 students. Portsmouth and depending on the event, Dover is considered the place to be for those students. Portsmouth is expensive, though, so not a great deal of families with young kids live in Portsmouth, if that is what you are about. Though, Portsmouth and near-by Hampton Beach are near the top spots to visit for families with young kids to visit in the summer.

1 of the great things about NH is that it has all of the benefits of 1 a major city without the problems like crime, high welfare use, ghettos and high taxes. Boston is a 35 minute drive from Salem, NH. Depending on where you live in NH, it's often an hour or so train or bus ride to Boston. You can get monthly passes and their is usually wifi included with your ticket.

As for the aging population, though, that is completely accurate. In fact, ME, VT and NH are all among the states with the oldest population. That's great, IMO. It means I'm at less risk of them committing a crime against me or a company, they are less likely to be driving at night, they are less likely to go crazy and shot people... It also means that there are plenty of jobs in health care in NH ;)
http://voices.yahoo.com/top-five-oldest-states-america-9102315.html

[oyarde]

Before I left the USA, I had a guy looking at my house who was from Texas.

Exact quote, "Yeah, the property taxes are too high in Texas. I currently pay $35K a year and if I buy your house I cut my property taxes by 2/3s".

I thought $12K a year was bad. At $35K I would go crazy.

NH was worse though. When I left NH I was paying a small fortune every year as the property prices were very high and the taxes (annual raping) were intense.

Property tax rates (for those interested):

NH averages about 2.5% to 3% (There are some lower and some as high as 3.8%) per year
FL averages about 1.5% to 2% (homestead locks the assessed value increases) per year
TX averages about 2.5% to 3% in any area near an urban area sprawl per year.

I have 1 % on primary residence and about twice that on the other stuff.

[Keith and stuff]

Another way to rank the 10 ten states to live in.

Percentage of total state population voting for Ron Paul in 2012 compared

Percentage of total state population voting for Ron Paul in the Republican Primary or Republican Caucus, ranked highest to lowest (and the 2008 percentage):
1. New Hampshire 4.3% (1.4%)
2. Vermont 2.4% (0.4%)
3. Montana 2% (1.7%)
4. South Carolina 1.7% (0.4%)
5. Wisconsin 1.5% (0.3%)
6. Indiana 1.5% (0.5%)
7. Virginia 1.3% (0.3%)
8. Michigan 1.2% (0.6%)
9. North Carolina 1.1% (0.4%)
10. Ohio 1% (0.5%)

Or maybe you want to average the 2012 and 2008 results together? If that's the case, MT moves up to #2 and OR, which was in 12th place, moves into the top 10. See more here. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?360037-Percentage-of-total-state-population-voting-for-Ron-Paul-compared

[enoch150]

Another way to rank the 10 ten states to live in.

Percentage of total state population voting for Ron Paul in 2012 compared

Percentage of total state population voting for Ron Paul in the Republican Primary or Republican Caucus, ranked highest to lowest (and the 2008 percentage):
1. New Hampshire 4.3% (1.4%)
2. Vermont 2.4% (0.4%)
3. Montana 2% (1.7%)
4. South Carolina 1.7% (0.4%)
5. Wisconsin 1.5% (0.3%)
6. Indiana 1.5% (0.5%)
7. Virginia 1.3% (0.3%)
8. Michigan 1.2% (0.6%)
9. North Carolina 1.1% (0.4%)
10. Ohio 1% (0.5%)

Or maybe you want to average the 2012 and 2008 results together? If that's the case, MT moves up to #2 and OR, which was in 12th place, moves into the top 10. See more here. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?360037-Percentage-of-total-state-population-voting-for-Ron-Paul-compared

What if some states have a disproportionate number of people ineligible to vote? Maybe they're to young or felons or something. I don't know if that's the case. Maybe every state is about the same. Also, not every state had the same number of candidates. Virginia, as I recall, only had Romney as an opponent and a lot of Santorum and Gingrich supporters voted for Paul just to keep Romney from winning. There were a number of states in which Santorum was not on the ballot and similar things could have happened in those.

[Keith and stuff]

What if some states have a disproportionate number of people ineligible to vote? Maybe they're to young or felons or something. I don't know if that's the case. Maybe every state is about the same. Also, not every state had the same number of candidates. Virginia, as I recall, only had Romney as an opponent and a lot of Santorum and Gingrich supporters voted for Paul just to keep Romney from winning. There were a number of states in which Santorum was not on the ballot and similar things could have happened in those.

There are a ton of factors. You are correct. You bring up great points! In some states like ME and VT, a felon in prison may vote. In some states like NH, a felon out of prison may vote. Also, NH had the most people on the ballot so there was the most competition. There were also states that aren't important in national politics. The vote happened late in those states and people just didn't bother to vote. In VA, there were only 2 people so Ron Paul did much better than he would have, IMO. But then again, there are the caucus states where most people refuse to vote because they don't like the caucus system. That's another factor to consider.

[osan]

And please list your reasons. If there is already a thread on this, please post it or let me know. Thanks.

Here are the 10 worst, in no particular order... almost.




New York -collectivist authoritarian dump, everything is illegal, taxed to death
New Jersey -collectivist authoritarian dump, everything is illegal, insanely twitchy cops, taxes
Massachusetts -collectivist authoritarian dump, everything is illegal, taxes
California -collectivist authoritarian dump, everything is illegal, environMENTALism gone amok, taxes
Maryland -collectivist authoritarian dump, everything is illegal, taxes
Rhode Island -collectivist authoritarian dump, everything is illegal
Connecticut -collectivist authoritarian dump, everything is illegal
Illinois- -collectivist authoritarian dump, everything is illegal, insanely corrupt cops
Florida - more stupidity per square angstrom than the rest of the world put together
Ohio -collectivist authoritarian dump, everything is illegal, insanely twitchy cops

[osan]

1. California (Pros - legal, available medicinal herb, great climate, variety of places and cultures to choose to live in, lots of coastline. Cons - expensive, high taxes, regulations, gun laws)

BWAAAAAAAA HAAA HAAA HAAA HAAA HAAA HA HA HA HA...

Oh, you were serious. In that case, you are cracked. I lived there for years - LA, San Mateo, Davis.

Shit. Hole. Beautiful, mind you, but politically one of the biggest crapholes on the planet.


2. Oregon

Lived there, too. Great state in some ways, but politically it sucks ass.


3. Washington


See Oregon. WA is VERY conservative except Seattle and because they have the population and it is mostly retarded progressives (redundant, I know) the rest of the state is forced to kowtow to the socialist agenda. Living in Vancouver was like being on an entirely different planet from Seattle. I lived in both places.

[osan]

I like Kentucky,Rand and Massie,beautiful country with mild weather and plenty of water,reasonable acreage prices with low property taxes.
If I ever hit the lottery...

West Virginia is one of the better states primarily because you can be left alone. If I decide to build a barn, I build it and do not worry about some cock-weasel getting up my six about permits. I carry a gun everywhere I go, concealed or openly and have no hassles. Cops are generally polite and very much the opposite of the twitchy **** in places like NJ and OH, who pose the greatest public danger imaginable. Very few people here are uncomfortable around firearms and the few that are remain polite about it. We just normalized all gun laws here so that cities like Dunbar can no longer prohibit you from carrying openly.

[Tod]

Another way to rank the 10 ten states to live in.

Percentage of total state population voting for Ron Paul in 2012 compared

Percentage of total state population voting for Ron Paul in the Republican Primary or Republican Caucus, ranked highest to lowest (and the 2008 percentage):
1. New Hampshire 4.3% (1.4%)
2. Vermont 2.4% (0.4%)
3. Montana 2% (1.7%)
4. South Carolina 1.7% (0.4%)
5. Wisconsin 1.5% (0.3%)
6. Indiana 1.5% (0.5%)
7. Virginia 1.3% (0.3%)
8. Michigan 1.2% (0.6%)
9. North Carolina 1.1% (0.4%)
10. Ohio 1% (0.5%)

Or maybe you want to average the 2012 and 2008 results together? If that's the case, MT moves up to #2 and OR, which was in 12th place, moves into the top 10. See more here. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?360037-Percentage-of-total-state-population-voting-for-Ron-Paul-compared


Wow, Ohio finally got a mention.

[daviddee]

...

[PierzStyx]

Bump

[PierzStyx]

Anyways, here are my thoughts.

-----Best States-----

3. Utah
Pros: Nice People, Beautiful Landscape, Excellent Retreat Sites, Decent Population Centers
Cons: Most Land is Federally Owned, Isolated, Climate Can Be Harsh, Poor Soil, Majority LDS Population (if that isn't your thing)



Hey, you do realize that the "nice people" you list as a "Pro" are the LDS people you listed as a "Con" right? Also, Idaho has a huge LDS population, as does Wyoming.

[Tod]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HewwI7cX1yg

[Deborah K]

http://i44.tinypic.com/2mrdw2h.jpg

[MelissaWV]

Take all the lists, put them together, and look for states (or countries) that aren't mentioned.

[Smitty]

If you dig into certain specifics, Kentucky doesn't appear exceptionally free. But in the day to day sense, it's a fairly free place to live. Nobody goes out of their way to oppress people here.

Maybe North Dakota and New Hampshire rate more free than Kentucky,..but harsh winters limits my freedom more than the government.

I've been all over the country more than once.

I haven't found a better place to call home than the Bluegrass region of Kentucky.

[Deborah K]

Take all the lists, put them together, and look for states (or countries) that aren't mentioned.

Oklahoma was written about, but not listed. I just looked up tornado alley, and found an area east of it with this:

http://www.landwatch.com/Pushmataha-County-Oklahoma-Land-for-sale/pid/204973683

and there's a bordering property here:

http://www.landwatch.com/default.aspx?ct=D&pid=204973689

That's nearly 75 acres. Don't know much about it yet. Like flood zones, digging wells, farming it, etc. But we could conceivably buy it now while we're waiting for our house to sell.

[jj-]

***

[HOLLYWOOD]

This is a very good publication. US .gov have their similar pubs. High marks for; Idaho, Montana, and Utah. Just stay clear/upwind from the military installations ie; Malstrom, Mountain Home, Hill, Fairchild AFBs.

link: http://militarybases.com/



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HewwI7cX1yg