Who is responsible for Trayvon Martin's Death?

[Todd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbyPWl45uog

[69360]

Both of them. When two dumbasses meet, bad things happen. They were both out looking for trouble. Zimmerman was not criminally liable though.

[jllundqu]

Both of them. When two dumbasses meet, bad things happen. They were both out looking for trouble. Zimmerman was not criminally liable though.

This

/thread and +rep Summed up the whole damn trial for us! Now can we PLEASE stop talking about freaking Trayvon/Zimmerman.... we are literally on the verge of WW3/Economic Collapse.... bigger fish?

[presence]

In any result there is no cause, only causes.

[FrankRep]

Both of them. When two dumbasses meet, bad things happen. They were both out looking for trouble. Zimmerman was not criminally liable though.

Zimmerman was doing Community Watch, it was his job to look for trouble.

[luctor-et-emergo]

Morally ? I wasn't there.
Legally ? According to the court case, Trayvon himself.
Physically ? Zimmerman.

[AuH20]

Why did the dumbass go back? That's the incriminating question. Why? His ego was bruised by a tiny Peruvian guy?

[Todd]

Both of them. When two dumbasses meet, bad things happen. They were both out looking for trouble. Zimmerman was not criminally liable though.

That's actually closer to my view as well.

When you carry a gun you have an incredible responsibility. If you want to be aggressive, running your mouth and intimidate people you should just leave it at home and not carry it out at all. You had better damn well have a personality that is as gentle in spirit as a Trappist Monk so that when you are in the situation you actually have to use it you are completely justified that you did everything in your ability to seek the non-violent solution first.

[thoughtomator]

Ultimately the blame can be placed at whoever taught that young man to initiate violence.

[paulbot24]

Why did the dumbass go back? That's the incriminating question. Why?

Why did the glove not fit OJ's hand? Why? Why? (I'm not making fun of you, I just don't understand the point of discourse on this anymore.)

[Nobexliberty]

Ultimately the blame can be placed at whoever taught that young man to initiate violence. Or the lack of people to teach the boy simple morals.

[RickyJ]

Trayvon Martin is responsible for his death. Why do people always want to blame everyone but the attacker?

[RickyJ]

Ultimately the blame can be placed at whoever taught that young man to initiate violence.

They certainly didn't help and deserve some blame, but still a 17 year old that does something like attacking a stranger is responsible for doing it themselves and deserves the most blame.

[Ender]

They certainly didn't help and deserve some blame, but still a 17 year old that does something like attacking a stranger is responsible for doing it themselves and deserves the most blame.

Never any proof of that- just Zimmerman's word, which is questionable at best

[Keith and stuff]

If it weren't for roads, none of this would have ever happened. Now, who is responsible for the roads?

[Dr.3D]

If it weren't for roads, none of this would have ever happened. Now, who is responsible for the roads?

Yeah, but if it weren't for houses, none of this would have happened. Who is responsible for those houses being built?

[thoughtomator]

Trayvon Martin is responsible for his death. Why do people always want to blame everyone but the attacker?

Unfortunately there are a vast number of people who may as well be entirely autonomic given the amount of independent and critical thinking they do. In cases like this you look for the puppetmaster and the programmer. Sort of like a dog that's gone vicious, it's never just the dog itself which made it that way.

[georgiaboy]

c'mon, y'all, guns are responsible.


http://www.wdsu.com/image/view/-/18289490/medRes/1/-/maxh/480/maxw/640/-/b76s38/-/Minions.jpg

[AuH20]

Unfortunately there are a vast number of people who may as well be entirely autonomic given the amount of independent and critical thinking they do. In cases like this you look for the puppetmaster and the programmer. Sort of like a dog that's gone vicious, it's never just the dog itself which made it that way.

Self-ownership is a powerful concept. Once again, this dumbass possessed the critical thinking skills to go home and double back on Zimmerman, thinking he would just pound on the diminutive, flabby Peruvian guy who was asking prying questions earlier. However, during the altercation, the dumbass got a big surprise.

[kathy88]

Zimmerman was doing Community Watch, it was his job to look for trouble.

Your swastika is showing again.

[EBounding]

What if Zimmerman had a badge?

[Dr.3D]

So who is supposed to be out there looking for problems in the neighborhood? Would we prefer the gestapo out there doing it or would it be preferable to have those who live there do it instead?

[juleswin]

Yeah, but if it weren't for houses, none of this would have happened. Who is responsible for those houses being built?

And to do go back a little further, if Zimmerman hadn't been born, Travvon will still be alive or if Travvon hadn't be born, then he wouldn't had the opportunity to died that faithful day. I blame both moms for this.

[AuH20]

So who is supposed to be out there looking for problems in the neighborhood? Would we prefer the gestapo out there doing it or would it be preferable to have those who live there do it instead?

Nobody. We're supposed to cower in our homes like sheep. If an intruder or group of intruders break in, my advice is to hide in the broom closet. That's the RIGHT thing to do.

[Ender]

So who is supposed to be out there looking for problems in the neighborhood? Would we prefer the gestapo out there doing it or would it be preferable to have those who live there do it instead?

I prefer innocent until proven guilty.

Is it smart to be aware? Absolutely.

Is it "freedom" to assume others are guilty before the fact? Nada.

[jkr]

What if Zimmerman had a badge?
IT WOULD HAVE ALL BEEN OK AND "TREVON" WOULD HAVE BEEN CHARGED AS WELL.


makes you feel great doenst it?

[Ender]

Nobody. We're supposed to cower in our homes like sheep. If an intruder or group of intruders break in, my advice is to hide in the broom closet. That's the RIGHT thing to do.

If they break into your home, do what needs to be done- if someone is walking in your neighborhood, they have the right to do that- 2 different scenarios.

[Dr.3D]

I prefer innocent until proven guilty.

Is it smart to be aware? Absolutely.

Is it "freedom" to assume others are guilty before the fact? Nada.
Who assumed anything?

[Ender]

Who assumed anything?

Zimmerman, obviously.

[Ender]

Who assumed anything?

Zimmerman, obviously.

[Dr.3D]

Zimmerman, obviously.
Why? Because he was keeping an eye on the neighborhood?

Seems more like Mr. Martin assumed he could double back and kick the ass of that cracka.

[Kotin]

I am so tired of this.

so blown out of proportion when there are literally hundreds of cases every year that are so much worse.

this one just happened to be chosen by the media to distract everyone from something important such as Bradley Manning's trial...

this case means nothing in the scope of all the similar and worse crimes. I really do not care.

[JK/SEA]

good to see everyone getting sucked into a media controlled distraction.

Anyone remember the IRS bullshit?
or the Benghazi fiasco?

the wars?

anyone?


burp

edit:..just read Kotin's post....and so it goes.

[torchbearer]

Zimmerman, obviously.

every act of self-defense has the assumption the other person is going to hurt or kill you.
so you snark actually means nothing.

[shane77m]

Obviously white folks and guns are to blame. That is what the media tells me.

[Ender]

Why? Because he was keeping an eye on the neighborhood?

Seems more like Mr. Martin assumed he could double back and kick the ass of that cracka.

Proof?

And WHY is it so terrible for Trayvon to say "cracker"? There are a lot of worse things that could have been said. And why is this a fun thing to believe out of the girl's mouth, when no one believes anything else she said?

How better is "asshole"? "Fuckin" coon" is still on the table, BTW, even though everyone still likes to deny it?

[JK/SEA]

its Cracka....

[Ender]

every act of self-defense has the assumption the other person is going to hurt or kill you.
so you snark actually means nothing.

Snark? Not at all.

Zimmerman profiled Trayvon and THEN claimed self defense. If he was a flabby fat guy like some here like to claim, then he should have been more careful going into a situation that might have entailed him having to take care of himself.

[Ender]

its Cracka....

Didn't know you were black. ;)

[torchbearer]

Snark? Not at all.

Zimmerman profiled Trayvon and THEN claimed self defense. If he was a flabby fat guy like some here like to claim, then he should have been more careful going into a situation that might have entailed him having to take care of himself.

If i'm on neighborhood watch, and burglars have been hitting homes. I will trail anyone who is walking about at night.
otherwise, i wouldn't be doing my job.

[Brian4Liberty]

Ultimately the blame can be placed at whoever taught that young man to initiate violence.

Which brings up an angle that has not been discussed by anyone (that I have heard).

Fistfights amongst teens and pre-teens used to be pretty standard. There were times when boxing was taught in schools. We still have wrestling. It was a right of passage, with no death or weapons involved. It was usually done in public, with an "audience". Most kids grew out of this early in High School. That is one kind of "violence" (well, until political correctness and the nanny-state started drugging little boys in kindergarten).

What someone failed to tell Trayvon Martin, and all of the other idiots that post video of their violent exploits online, is that when you attack a strange adult on the street, you have entered an entirely different arena. That is not schoolyard bravado or kids blowing off steam. When a strange adult is attacked, the attacker has inserted themselves into a life or death situation, equivalent to war. It is not fun and games.

No one seems to have mentioned it, but it has become a popular trend in some areas and groups to attack strange adults on the street, often recording it. This is how morality and norms are being set. That needs to be addressed, and no one seems to care. Don't expect the establishment media to make a big deal about it. They go out of their way to not report on it, or report on it sporadically.

Don't attack strange adults on the street, it is entirely different than the schoolyard. This should be the lesson of the Trayvon Martin case. Not this three-ring media circus of inciting racial strife.

(Edit: not to say that school yard fights are good or should be encouraged or should not be punished, but it needs to be clear that it's an entirely different situation).

[CaptUSA]

good to see everyone getting sucked into a media controlled distraction.
Agreed.

I guess we have to understand that this forum is a medium, too. The PTB direct us what to talk about just like they do to the networks.
We have to face the facts that many of us in here (myself included) are news-junkies, and whatever the news is talking about, we want to state our opinion. Instead of us being separate from the media, we are part of it. I think the best we can hope for is that there are still a lot of us in here that are able to rise above it. I'll admit I still struggle.

[Ender]

If i'm on neighborhood watch, and burglars have been hitting homes. I will trail anyone who is walking about at night.
otherwise, i wouldn't be doing my job.

Even if your neighborhood watch instructions have asked specifically NOT to do that?

I have no problem protecting myself and my neighborhood. I DO have a problem with wannabe cops that beg for a NW, when the head of the HOA didn't want one, and then go against the rules that he begged for. I also have a problem with the immediate conclusions that Trayvon was a bad guy- if anyone is being led by the MSM, it is with this assumption.

Was he a punk? Probably- but Trayvon had no record- just 3 suspensions- one for a flathead screwdriver, one for graffiti and one for possible marijuana traces in his bag. AND- if he really had those traces, why weren't the cops called?

Zimmerman does have a record and a history of some violence. He has also lied in court twice. One about his income and one where he sued CNN about "editing" his 911 call but had edited the version he turned in.

Maybe Zimmerman was attacked but maybe he wasn't. No one really knows except him.

My main problem with this whole affair is the immediate reactions of liberty minded people against Travyon because he was black and punkish. That is NOT a crime.

[torchbearer]

Even if your neighborhood watch instructions have asked specifically NOT to do that?

I have no problem protecting myself and my neighborhood. I DO have a problem with wannabe cops that beg for a NW, when the head of the HOA didn't want one, and then go against the rules that he begged for. I also have a problem with the immediate conclusions that Trayvon was a bad guy- if anyone is being led by the MSM, it is with this assumption.

Was he a punk? Probably- but Trayvon had no record- just 3 suspensions- one for a flathead screwdriver, one for graffiti and one for possible marijuana traces in his bag. AND- if he really had those traces, why weren't the cops called?

Zimmerman does have a record and a history of some violence. He has also lied in court twice. One about his income and one where he sued CNN about "editing" his 911 call but had edited the version he turned in.

Maybe Zimmerman was attacked but maybe he wasn't. No one really knows except him.

My main problem with this whole affair is the immediate reactions of liberty minded people against Travyon because he was black and punkish. That is NOT a crime.

yes, i would keep track and follow someone walking around my neighborhood at night if was on watch.
if the other person was just out walking and was freaked out by me trailing them- you'd think they'd call the cops to report someone following them.
Or would you walk up to the guy trailing you, cuss him out, punch him the nose, wail on him on the ground?
are you then going to act like a victim when the person puts shot through your chest?

[Todd]

I am so tired of this.

so blown out of proportion when there are literally hundreds of cases every year that are so much worse.

this one just happened to be chosen by the media to distract everyone from something important such as Bradley Manning's trial...

this case means nothing in the scope of all the similar and worse crimes. I really do not care.

I almost agree with this but then I thought about firearms rights.

Isn't it the fact that this case is front and center that makes it so important? How does this case serve as a precedent for defensive use of firearms?

What if it had gone the other way?

[Dr.3D]

I almost agree with this but then I thought about firearms rights.

Isn't it the fact that this case is front and center that makes it so important? How does this case serve as a precedent for defensive use of firearms?

What if it had gone the other way?
It would say we have no right to self defense.

[The Free Hornet]

c'mon, y'all, guns are responsible.


http://www.wdsu.com/image/view/-/18289490/medRes/1/-/maxh/480/maxw/640/-/b76s38/-/Minions.jpg

Those Despicabe Me (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1323594/) minons look like ReBoot (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108903/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1) Binomes.

Note the badge:

http://th03.deviantart.net/fs6/150/i/2005/070/1/c/ReBoot_Icon_by_stivthermal.jpg

The zeros/ones with two/one eyes:

http://www.fluffy.com/gallery/images/reboot.jpg

[Philhelm]

Ultimately the blame can be placed at whoever taught that young man to initiate violence.

Government?

[squarepusher]

Both of them. When two dumbasses meet, bad things happen. They were both out looking for trouble. Zimmerman was not criminally liable though.

One dumbass had a loaded concealed carry gun though, the other skittles. If we want free gun laws, we need to have people intelligent to use those laws, like in Switzerland. Not Rambo's who use law loopholes to technicalities to not be responsible. If the typical mindset of an American is of Zimmerman, then we shoud have more restrictive gun laws.

[Philhelm]

If the typical mindset of an American is of Zimmerman, then we shoud have more restrictive gun laws.

This is the scene where the record zips to silence and everyone stares.

[FrankRep]

One dumbass had a loaded concealed carry gun though, the other skittles. If we want free gun laws, we need to have people intelligent to use those laws, like in Switzerland. Not Rambo's who use law loopholes to technicalities to not be responsible. If the typical mindset of an American is of Zimmerman, then we shoud have more restrictive gun laws.
Zimmerman used a gun in self-defense. You support gun control laws because someone might use a gun in self-defense?

[Dr.3D]

Zimmerman used a gun in self-defense. You support gun control laws because someone might use a gun in self-defense?
Yeah, we can't have people defending themselves can we?

[Pericles]

This is the scene where the record zips to silence and everyone stares.

Maybe Reginald Denny is his hero?

[dannno]

If they break into your home, do what needs to be done- if someone is walking in your neighborhood, they have the right to do that- 2 different scenarios.

Ok, but Zimmerman did NOT have the right to walk through HIS own neighborhood (as opposed to a neighborhood he was VISITING)? Got it.

[enhanced_deficit]

Wont it be better to wait till all the facts come out?


Rachel Jeantel Tells Piers She And Trayvon Feared Zimmerman Might Be Gay Rapist

by Andrew Kirell (http://www.mediaite.com/author/andrew-kirell/) | 12:32 pm, July 16th, 2013
http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/jeantel1.jpg

During her lengthy interview with Piers Morgan last night, star witness Rachel Jeantel described how she and Trayvon Martin feared that George Zimmerman was a “rapist” following the 17-year-old teenager.
Asked whether there was any doubt in her mind as to whether Martin “absolutely believed” Zimmerman was “pursuing him” that evening in 2012, Jeantel replied in the affirmative. He was “freaked out” about it, she said, especially after she had suggested to the late teenager that Zimmerman “might be a rapist.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rachel-jeantel-tells-piers-she-and-trayvon-feared-zimmerman-might-be-gay-rapist/

[Philhelm]

My main problem with this whole affair is the immediate reactions of liberty minded people against Travyon because he was black and punkish. That is NOT a crime.

I think this statement is disingenuous. I would imagine that the draw was the fact that a man used a firearm against an unarmed man in (alleged) self-defense, and the fact that this was under attack. According to comments I have read outside of this forum, some people believe that an armed man should take a beating and not use lethal force in self-defense.

I would rather shoot a man in the head than get my nose broken or lose a tooth. I'm selfish and that is the price to pay for attacking me.

[puppetmaster]

Ultimately the blame can be placed at whoever taught that young man to initiate violence.


OK BS. This is one of the problems with society. Always someone else's fault
personal responsibility and accountability is a much needed trait.

[puppetmaster]

One dumbass had a loaded concealed carry gun though, the other skittles. If we want free gun laws, we need to have people intelligent to use those laws, like in Switzerland. Not Rambo's who use law loopholes to technicalities to not be responsible. If the typical mindset of an American is of Zimmerman, then we shoud have more restrictive gun laws.
Switzerland has only intelligent people? Loophole? Yeah right you need the definition of loophole. Stand your ground is not a loophole. The vast majority of gun owners are responsible and I will take my chances with the irresponsible ones over government regs any day

[RonPaulMall]

One dumbass had a loaded concealed carry gun though, the other skittles. If we want free gun laws, we need to have people intelligent to use those laws, like in Switzerland.

The reason there is less violence in Switzerland is because that country doesn't have violent, thuggish, low IQ teens lurking around bushes with the ingredients for a ghetto street drug waiting to attack anybody who approaches them. The Swiss do have superior laws, but it is their immigration laws, which keep people like Trayvon and Jenteal from being in their country in the first place, not their gun laws, that are keeping them safe.

[FrankRep]

Wont it be better to wait till all the facts come out?


Rachel Jeantel Tells Piers She And Trayvon Feared Zimmerman Might Be Gay Rapist

by Andrew Kirell (http://www.mediaite.com/author/andrew-kirell/) | 12:32 pm, July 16th, 2013
http://static01.mediaite.com/med/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/jeantel1.jpg

During her lengthy interview with Piers Morgan last night, star witness Rachel Jeantel described how she and Trayvon Martin feared that George Zimmerman was a “rapist” following the 17-year-old teenager.
Asked whether there was any doubt in her mind as to whether Martin “absolutely believed” Zimmerman was “pursuing him” that evening in 2012, Jeantel replied in the affirmative. He was “freaked out” about it, she said, especially after she had suggested to the late teenager that Zimmerman “might be a rapist.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rachel-jeantel-tells-piers-she-and-trayvon-feared-zimmerman-might-be-gay-rapist/

Oh noes.

Trayvon hates gay people, thinks they're rapists.


Hate Crime!! Trayvon attacked him.

[enhanced_deficit]

Oh noes.

Trayvon hates gay people, thinks they're rapists.


Hate Crime!! Trayvon attacked him.

First of all, this is speculation at this point that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman because he suspected Zimmerman was gay rapist.

But are you implying a young man suspecting a neighborhood watchman following him to be a gay rapist will be "hate crime"?


Another things that makes it controvercial is that if Zimmerman was assaulted by Trayvon because Trayvon thought Zimmerman was gay, Obama would not have said that Trayvon would be like his son if he had one. Earlier Obama had said his daughters convinced him to support gay marraige, or something to that effect.

Holding off opinion on this till more facts come out.

[FrankRep]

But are you implying a young man suspecting a neighborhood watchman following him to be a gay rapist will be "hate crime"?
Maybe Trayvon started bashing Zimmerman's head into the concrete because he hated gay people. Sounds like a hate crime to me.

[enhanced_deficit]

Maybe Trayvon started bashing Zimmerman's head into the concrete because he hated gay people. Sounds like a hate crime to me.

As far as I know, defense or prosecution or anyone else before today had not stated that Trayvon hated gay people and that is why he attacked Zimmerman. If that is established, then you have a point.

[WM_in_MO]

Gas thread ban OP.

this is stupid.

[JK/SEA]

note to self.

must go beat a dead horse.

end note.

[pcosmar]

note to self.

must go beat a dead horse.

end note.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/540/685/b1d.png

[Zippyjuan]

It was two mistakes which compounded. On Zimmerman's side, if he had not gotten out of his truck and started following Martin and waited until the cops came, there would have not been any confrontition which led to death. On Martin's side, if he had not come after a man who was following him while he was on his way home, he would be fine today as well.

[bunklocoempire]

It was two mistakes which compounded. On Zimmerman's side, if he had not gotten out of his truck and started following Martin and waited until the cops came, there would have not been any confrontition which led to death. On Martin's side, if he had not come after a man who was following him while he was on his way home, he would be fine today as well.

Not too sure about that first one. I would've guessed that cops shoot more teens than neighborhood watchmen do.

[BlackTerrel]

The guy who pulled the trigger is to blame.

[FrankRep]

The guy who pulled the trigger is to blame.
Not the guy smashing another guy's head into the concrete?

[Scrapmo]

Both of them. When two dumbasses meet, bad things happen. They were both out looking for trouble. Zimmerman was not criminally liable though.

Thread could have ended here.

[satchelmcqueen]

martin is to blame. he should have NOT attacked zimmerman. he also came back to zimmerman and a physical act occurred that had witnesses. martin is to blame. self defense isnt wrong nor is a neighborhood watchman.

[seraphson]

Zimmerman was doing Community Watch, it was his job to look for trouble.

To be the Devil's Advocate:

The Cops are on Watch, it's their job to look for trouble.

As for what I think. I agree with the two dumbasses theory.

[Dianne]

Trayvon is responsible for his own death... Anyone with the least bit of common sense... will not go into a high crime area ... solo ... wearing a hoody ... dressed in all black .... Trayvon was an idiot ... either looking for trouble or trouble found him.


I guarantee you, right now ... I can go to Uptown Charlotte, North Carolina as a white woman ... dressed in solid black with a hoodie... and I won't be coming back home !!!!

And Eric Holder ..... puss chops ... crying that he wishes justice against Zimmerman... after he armed the entire Mexican drug cartel with weapons of mass destruction in Fast and Furious... crying that his Dad gave him a speech about being a black man surviving in the U.S.A. ... He's right ... being a black man in the U.S.A. meanings running drugs... becoming U.S. Attorney General ... and having to cover up for a black ignoranmous.............. Obama... who no one knows where the hell that black guy came from..

Holder crying tonight for the deprivation of his "black" race ... He only made it to Attorney General and Obama only made it to President ... so I'm crying for them ... Did they want to be King and Queen, but caught short due to their race?

[Zippyjuan]

Trayvon is responsible for his own death... Anyone with the least bit of common sense... will not go into a high crime area ... solo ... wearing a hoody ... dressed in all black .... Trayvon was an idiot ... either looking for trouble or trouble found him.


I guarantee you, right now ... I can go to Uptown Charlotte, North Carolina as a white woman ... dressed in solid black with a hoodie... and I won't be coming back home !!!!

And Eric Holder ..... puss chops ... crying that he wishes justice against Zimmerman... after he armed the entire Mexican drug cartel with weapons of mass destruction in Fast and Furious... crying that his Dad gave him a speech about being a black man surviving in the U.S.A. ... He's right ... being a black man in the U.S.A. meanings running drugs... becoming U.S. Attorney General ... and having to cover up for a black ignoranmous.............. Obama... who no one knows where the hell that black guy came from..

Holder crying tonight for the deprivation of his "black" race ... He only made it to Attorney General and Obama only made it to President ... so I'm crying for them ... Did they want to be King and Queen, but caught short due to their race?

Treyvon was walking home. He was living there just as Zimmerman was. He had every right to be there. Walking home means somebody has a right to kill you? Because of your clothes? Wearing a hood in the rain is a crime?

[Origanalist]

Treyvon was walking home. He was living there just as Zimmerman was. He had every right to be there. Walking home means somebody has a right to kill you? Because of your clothes? Wearing a hood in the rain is a crime?

Zippy! It's his fault! If it weren't for hoody apologists like him Trayvon wouldn't have been dressed like that.