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tod evans
07-16-2013, 06:34 AM
The taxes I pay don't fund my parents SSI, they don't cover the welfare mom and the bureaucracy that supports her.

Neither do they cover my brothers salary who is currently on active duty, heck, they don't cover the cost of one drone strike!

I don't pay enough in taxes to cover the salary of the lowest paid dog-murderer dressed in a costume with a tin shield.

In fact I doubt that I paid enough last year to even outfit one of the militarized thugs who carry MP-5's and wear body armor...

Ex-senators health-care......Nope, didn't cover that either...


Did you?

:o

CaptUSA
07-16-2013, 06:38 AM
Interesting... Are you just talking about your personal income taxes? Or do you include inflation taxes and business taxes as well?

In the first case, you're proabably right. In the second, I would say the wealth from my labor is most definitely contributing to the monster.

tod evans
07-16-2013, 06:48 AM
I have no idea what an "inflation tax" is?

But I pay both business and personal...

The supposed cost of one missile is in excess of $65k, I'm betting (just a guess) officer friendly all decked out is wearing/carrying in excess of $20k..Put him in a car and add even more.

Government either needs to stop spending or tax those of us who actually produce even more........I don't have it!

CaptUSA
07-16-2013, 06:58 AM
Inflation tax is when they devalue your dollar by effectively printing more. (Your $50K in your savings now only buys $45K worth of stuff)
Business taxes include not only what you pay through your business, but also what every business you pruchase from has to pay and they pass that cost onto you.

What would your labor be worth in terms of FRN's if it wasn't surreptitiously being pilfered? The value you create is being squandered for the State - the taxes you pay directly are only one small measurement of that.

tod evans
07-16-2013, 07:08 AM
Way too confusing for a simple man..

Government is spending more than they take in so instead of trying to increase input by raising taxes they print money to back unsecured debt. Right?

Illegal for you or I yet somehow okay for government because they 'neeeeeed' it.


But, do you cover even your parents SSI/Medicaid?

Origanalist
07-16-2013, 07:13 AM
I was paying 0 income taxes for quite a while but hit a brick wall and had to go legit. :(

Quark
07-16-2013, 07:16 AM
I was paying 0 income taxes for quite a while but hit a brick wall and had to go legit. :(

Lucky you got away with it for so long, and weren't prosecuted by the biggest initiator of force in the world (I assume.) They consider tax evasion worse than murder or any other form of aggression.

tod evans
07-16-2013, 07:20 AM
Lucky you got away with it for so long, and weren't prosecuted by the biggest initiator of force in the world (I assume.) They consider tax evasion worse than murder or any other form of aggression.

So, do your taxes cover your family members who are drawing SSI?

How about a lowly street cop?

belian78
07-16-2013, 07:24 AM
Taxes aren't about us paying for things, it's about control. Start thinking of everything the government does in terms of how efficient to control a mass population, and things suddenly start to make a lot more sense.

tod evans
07-16-2013, 07:28 AM
Taxes aren't about us paying for things, it's about control. Start thinking of everything the government does in terms of how efficient to control a mass population, and things suddenly start to make a lot more sense.

Does that mean you're not covering your folks SSI either?

A Son of Liberty
07-16-2013, 07:35 AM
Way too confusing for a simple man..


No it's not:

I have one apple. You are hungry. You have 10 dollars. How much are you willing to spend for my 1 apple?

Now I have 10 apples, and 10 other people have 10 apples, all for sale. You are still hungry, and still have 10 dollars. Now how much are you willing to spend for an apple?

belian78
07-16-2013, 07:39 AM
Does that mean you're not covering your folks SSI either?
I guess I'm not seeing your point? They take from you, they take from me, they take from everyone. They take all they can to leave us 'just enough' so that we can buy ourselves a TV once in a while or take a 3 day vacation over the weekend, that way we don't get completely pissed off. They are bleeding the American people to death through a thousand cuts. Sure, you yourself aren't paying for SSI of your loved ones, neither am I. I wish I could be left alone so that I could afford to to that myself, but again, this is the control mechanism of the state. What is your point?

A Son of Liberty
07-16-2013, 07:41 AM
I think his point is that they don't tax us enough to spend what they spend. Not sure.

Doesn't matter, because you're exactly right - the point of taxation isn't to fund spending... it's to control.

tod evans
07-16-2013, 07:46 AM
Simply wondering if any of us on this board are putting more into government than our immediate family is taking out.

pcosmar
07-16-2013, 07:50 AM
I have not paid any income taxes for 7 years. (No Income)

It is the only upside to being unemployed. ;)

angelatc
07-16-2013, 07:54 AM
Simply wondering if any of us on this board are putting more into government than our immediate family is taking out.

Soc Sec is capped at $113,700 this year so the max anybody pays into that is $6822. The most a retiree can bring home is $2533 a month.

tod evans
07-16-2013, 07:56 AM
Soc Sec is capped at $113,700 this year so the max anybody pays into that is $6822. The most a retiree can bring home is $2533 a month.

Now add in Medicaid:eek:

CaptUSA
07-16-2013, 07:56 AM
Simply wondering if any of us on this board are putting more into government than our immediate family is taking out.
Sorry, tod, I'm not trying to be obtuse. But government is not just funded by income taxes.

If it were, I would say it's a wash. My immediate family probably takes as much in as my brothers and I pay.

But they have lots of other ways of taking my money. Inflation and corporate taxes are the biggies. Businesses pass the cost of their taxes onto me, so I have to pay more for everything I buy. And since my dollars are worth less than when I earned them, I have also lost value there. In both cases, that value lost goes to the State and their privileged friends. If I add in those costs to what I'm paying, I more than cover anything my immediate family would ever take. Is that any less confusing?

georgiaboy
07-16-2013, 08:04 AM
what's that statistic? 80% of the taxes are paid by 5, 10% of the country?

angelatc
07-16-2013, 08:06 AM
Now add in Medicaid:eek: There isn't a cap on Medicare earnings.

dinosaur
07-16-2013, 08:10 AM
Simply wondering if any of us on this board are putting more into government than our immediate family is taking out.

Yes, everyone in my family puts in more than they take out, even the old ones. I hope that is the norm among libertarians.

tod evans
07-16-2013, 08:13 AM
I fully understand government isn't funded by income tax, I run a small business, pay a lawyer and accountant to mitigate the damage and still between my 5 siblings and I we haven't covered the costs of our parents SSI and medical bills let alone any other government programs.

One of the retirees who visits my shop had over $650k worth of surgery and chemo last year alone, he has no kids.

That doesn't take into account either his, or his wifes, government pensions or her medical bills or their cumulative SSI..

The math just doesn't work........

HOLLYWOOD
07-16-2013, 08:22 AM
The FEDERAL RESERVE's "target" of 2% inflation per annul is theft... so in one decade THE FED wants to steal 20+% (compounded) a minimum of your savings/wealth per decade. Of course the inflation rates are higher than what the FRAUDULENT RESERVE states, so they're stealing even more.

Sounds like an auction house taking "THEIR CUT" and always needing to inflate... sounds like a scheme.

NJ Devils Star hockey player's brother said it best...
What kind of $100 million dollars is it? In the America crisis, there is no such money. And what they have to pay wages interest(taxes)? It boggles the mind. So my brother had no choice.

jbauer
07-16-2013, 08:22 AM
Simply wondering if any of us on this board are putting more into government than our immediate family is taking out.

There probably is a limited few but you're right the "stealing from our children" line is complete BS. We're printing not quite 1/2 of what we spend each year and that number is going to get worse not better in years to come.

Tod, you're probably not counting all the other taxes you pay like sales tax, property tax, gas tax, etc etc. You're probably paying somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% of your income by the time you add it all up.

Philhelm
07-16-2013, 08:37 AM
No it's not:

I have one apple. You are hungry. You have 10 dollars. How much are you willing to spend for my 1 apple?

Now I have 10 apples, and 10 other people have 10 apples, all for sale. You are still hungry, and still have 10 dollars. Now how much are you willing to spend for an apple?

Now imagine one of the ten people has a printing press, creates $1,000, and wants all of the apples...

tod evans
07-16-2013, 08:39 AM
Now imagine one of the ten people has a printing press, creates $1,000, and wants all of the apples...

No imagine the hungry man turns his back on all the shysters, walks down to the creek and catches a trout...

Fuck a bunch of apples..;)

A Son of Liberty
07-16-2013, 09:35 AM
No imagine the hungry man turns his back on all the shysters, walks down to the creek and catches a trout...

Fuck a bunch of apples..;)

:thumbs:

My plan, in a sentence. ;)

KEEF
07-16-2013, 10:09 AM
I was paying 0 income taxes for quite a while but hit a brick wall and had to go legit. :(

Oh snap, you just set off a huge red flag on PRISM's server. A couple of IRS agents should be knocking on your door in 5...4...3...2...1...NOW!

seraphson
07-16-2013, 11:01 AM
The taxes I pay don't fund my parents SSI, they don't cover the welfare mom and the bureaucracy that supports her.

Neither do they cover my brothers salary who is currently on active duty, heck, they don't cover the cost of one drone strike!

I don't pay enough in taxes to cover the salary of the lowest paid dog-murderer dressed in a costume with a tin shield.

In fact I doubt that I paid enough last year to even outfit one of the militarized thugs who carry MP-5's and wear body armor...

Ex-senators health-care......Nope, didn't cover that either...


Did you?

:o

I like the super obvious yet super subtle point you make. In fact it's the very reason many great nations have failed.

I believe the vast majority of Americans are under the impression our taxes cover our expenses but this hasn't been true for I believe over a half century now (Eisenhower?)

Even worse, assuming I'm wrong and the vast majority of American's do understand that our taxes don't cover our expenses I can almost guarantee they don't know of the dreary process that is keeping us afloat. I feel as though everyone has forgotten we failed to meet our debt obligations and closed the gold window in 71' without even the slightest blink of an eye of the consequences to follow.

Here's the scary part. You know (speaking to public) what helps pay for that SSI, MP-5, body armor, dog-murderer, active duty salaries, drone strikes, etc?

Debt. A lot of debt.

I do know another single damn well FACT too.
If we as American's had to actually pay for every penny of every dollar in taxes to fund these "benevolent" wars, welfare, and various other subsidies you'd bet you'd see a nearly unfathomable, unrecognizable change in the way people think.

Of course changing the way societies think in that manner would be disastrous to The State. And so we have the fuzzy and warm yet toxic anesthetic of easy money being constantly injected into the market (in one form or another) slowly siphoning away the life of market with every business cycle.

ghengis86
07-16-2013, 11:08 AM
You do realize we're trillions in debt, and that most of us here realize that too, no?

Are you using this example to wake up sheeple? Because if you think they care about debt, I've got news for you...

oyarde
07-16-2013, 11:08 AM
Well the Social Security thing is decieving . My Mother draws , but my Father passed away before doing so. They keep that. My previous wife , deceased before drawing any , kids are out of school , they keep that.Myself , I will never live long enough to get back what they took from me in just the first 30 yr.'s I worked......

kcchiefs6465
07-16-2013, 01:20 PM
When looking at medical costs you must also consider that those are not free market prices.

I can't even get the medication I need because the trip to the doctors is so outrageous. Not to mention I can't medicate myself as I see fit without a doctor's permission slip. It is no wonder when the Medical Industrial Complex spends 3 times more on lobbying efforts a year than the Military Industrial Complex. Tax payer dollars go to fund the research and development of these cancer drugs such as Taxol, for example. (a fitting name for a taxpayer funded drug, when you think about it) These drugs are patented and charged at rates 1100% more than production costs. Why? Because people need them and the government pays. They don't receive the thousand dollar bill per dose, the patient probably doesn't even understand the cost of their treatment. More corporate welfare. That is just one small example. To really start to look into the problem/s of the medical system would take pages upon pages. It is broken, to sum it all up.

I pay. I surely won't live to receive SSI. And if I did, which I won't, the system will be long crashed by then. Probably a new form of global currency removing me further from the elite and the power they hold.

I suppose what I am trying to say is this, the show must go on. Understand the problem. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you opting out would save the system. Even if they would let you, which they won't, the value of your currency would still be stolen from between your fingertips. You could always hedge your bets, but truthfully, they can manipulate the world with the power they have.

DamianTV
07-16-2013, 02:16 PM
A Partial List of Taxes Americans are Forced to Pay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-eqG7tvrzk

pcosmar
07-16-2013, 03:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB-JzPBJalA

YOU THINK THAT IS MONEY YOU ARE PAID? or are paying.

You think the astronomical numbers thrown around represent real money?


Dude,,, there is no spoon.

oyarde
07-17-2013, 12:30 AM
The only taxes I have ever paid that I can think of , that I actually used any of ,would be roads and post office , so , I have over paid...... I bought stamps and pd three gas taxes, I will accept the rest back . I will also accept all those back pd by my Father and deceased wife ....

Warrior_of_Freedom
07-17-2013, 12:33 AM
I pay no tax because I directly work for shelter/food
I can't consciously get a mainstream job and do my part in funding the killing of innocent people foreign and sadly nowadays, domestic through government.

eduardo89
07-17-2013, 12:37 AM
I've never paid a single cent to the IRS.

oyarde
07-17-2013, 12:41 AM
I've never paid a single cent to the IRS.

I hope you do not have to pay much :)