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Origanalist
07-10-2013, 08:10 AM
The copy and paste screwed up for some reason on this, go to the link for a clear read of it.


Denver Mayor Michael Hancock wants to impose a tax on recreational marijuana to cover the costs of the coming industry that would be roughly akin to the tax burden on a pack of tobacco cigarettes.
But marijuana advocates fear excessive taxes could destroy the whole idea around voter-approved Amendment 64 and keep recreational pot users in the black market.


"If it is too much tax too quickly, it will kill the transition to the legal market," said Michael Elliott, director of the Medical Marijuana Industry Group.
No tax decisions have been decided yet.
In November, Colorado voters will be asked to approve a 15 percent excise tax plus a 10 percent statewide sales tax on all retail pot purchases.
The Denver City Council has been discussing adding its own tax and also would have to submit the question to voters. The council must approve the question by the end of August to make it onto November's ballot.


Hancock is recommending a 5 percent tax in the first year but said the city should have the flexibility to increase the tax to up to 10 percent.
"We believe a 5 percent tax on recreational marijuana will fulfill the city's needs to effectively regulate and enforce this new law while protecting our children and families, supporting public health and ensuring the integrity of our neighborhoods," Hancock said in a statement.
The city's finance department analyzed what would be needed to pay for expenses of a new retail pot culture that is expected to achieve $128 million in sales in the first year in Denver alone.
The city expects it will have to spend about $9.4 million on regulation, enforcement and health and education — including adding 26 police officers, buying a so-called Denver Cares van to transport high people to a detox facility and paying for an advertisement campaign to encourage young people to stay away from pot.
The analysis asked each city department for their expected costs with the new industry. Officials want to hire more park rangers to patrol parks, an additional city attorney to deal with increased caseloads, more fire inspectors and additional staff for Denver Health to handle medical and mental health problems.
"We used our best judgment to identify cost areas that if we are going to do this right, this is where the city should put its resources," said Denver chief financial officer Cary Kennedy, who presented the recommendations to the council on Monday.
A 5 percent tax coupled with state revenue and other fees would generate about $9.2 million a year, Kennedy said
"By starting at 5 percent, it will help us through unforeseen problems, to make sure we are doing this right, protecting children and families, supporting public health and ensuring the integrity of our neighborhoods," Hancock said in a statement.

Read more: Denver considering 5% tax on pot sales, comparable to cigarette tax - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_23622157/denver-considering-5-tax-pot-sales-comparable-cigarette#ixzz2YeSoNUvy
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse
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Denver Chief Financial Officer Cary Kennedy. (Craig F. Walker, Denver Post file)
neighborhoods and kids," she said at a meeting Monday with the City Council.
The 5 percent tax along with state and other local taxes would amount to a 25 percent tax for the consumer on each purchase, she said. That is roughly the equivalent of the excise and sales taxes on packages of cigarettes.
The retail tax on cigarettes includes 2.9 percent state sales tax plus 84 cents per pack excise tax. For a low-cost pack of cigarettes of roughly $4, that tax equals about a 23 percent tax rate, said Kennedy, a former state treasurer.
Some on the council want a higher ceiling than 10 percent.
Councilwoman Jeanne Faatz is calling for 15 percent, saying the tax should cover more than just the costs of the impacts from the marijuana businesses.
"They said legalize it, but tax the hell out of it," Faatz said. "Why limit it to just 10 percent? Why is it not OK to have money left over to cover other services?"


Councilwoman Robin Kniech said she worries the city may be reaching too far.
"Is our goal to cover new costs related to legalization, or is it to cover all marijuana use that has been going on for a long time," she said. "Every dollar of new revenue is not a new user. How much are we taxing the legal market to cover the black market?"
The council will vote July 29 whether to go ahead with a tax and for how much. Councilman Charlie Brown, who chairs the Amendment 64 committee, said he believes the council will go ahead with a tax.
"Why go through all of this if we don't get anything out of it?" he asked.
Elliott of the marijuana industry group says the industry is already unfairly burdened because businesses that sell pot legally under state law cannot deduct or use any tax credit on their federal taxes.
His group is supporting the statewide vote on taxes and will campaign for its passage. But he doesn't want to see local governments piling on.
"The higher legal marijuana costs, the more people are going to stick with the black market," he said.


Read more: Denver considering 5% tax on pot sales, comparable to cigarette tax - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_23622157/denver-considering-5-tax-pot-sales-comparable-cigarette#ixzz2YeSOc5Rm
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse
Follow us: @Denverpost on Twitter | Denverpost on Facebook

ONUV
07-10-2013, 05:53 PM
35%?

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/07/10/taxes-on-recreational-pot-sales-could-top-35-percent/

Warrior_of_Freedom
07-10-2013, 05:54 PM
why would growing your own still be illegal if it becomes legal? It's a fucking plant. What's next, banning people from growing tomatoes in their backyard? GUILTY!

kcchiefs6465
07-10-2013, 05:59 PM
If it is too much tax too quickly,......
Fuck you.

Warrior_of_Freedom
07-10-2013, 06:12 PM
don't cities save millions on not convicting people on pot?

kcchiefs6465
07-10-2013, 07:12 PM
don't cities save millions on not convicting people on pot?
Guaranteed occupancy.

Passing these laws doesn't mean there will be less people in jail. They'll just arrest people for other shit.

Shane Harris
07-10-2013, 07:39 PM
well most people will probably still operate in the "black market" then. or just grow your own. I thought amendment 64 allowed for the ownership of up to 8 plants? Is that correct?

Christian Liberty
07-10-2013, 07:45 PM
We obviously have too much taxes and so I oppose every new type as well as most old types.

That said, there are worse things than this. Pot is still illegal entirely in 48 states. This is a step forward, and I still want to give credit.

I'm against tax increases, but nonetheless there are people on whom I would use the tax revenue argument (Primarily the left, or some elements on the lukewarm right.) I'd rather legalize and not tax, but I'd much, MUCH rather legalize and tax than fine and imprison...

kcchiefs6465
07-10-2013, 07:48 PM
well most people will probably still operate in the "black market" then. or just grow your own. I thought amendment 64 allowed for the ownership of up to 8 plants? Is that correct?
They want the price artificially high and the market limited to ensure their profits.

Some people will choose to stay on the black market. DEA raids won't be uncommon.

I'm not sure about Amendment 64 but that is ridiculous. Eight plants.. depending the seeds you buy half will probably be male and have to be cut down. Down to four plants. Not to mention you'd want a constant garden. A separation of plants. They enjoy different a light spectrum from when they are seedlings compared to when they are mature. Ridiculous. Marijuana is legal in Colorado? That's a good one. People wouldn't know legal if it came up and smacked them in the face.

brandon
07-10-2013, 07:51 PM
why would growing your own still be illegal if it becomes legal? It's a fucking plant. What's next, banning people from growing tomatoes in their backyard? GUILTY!

It's not. Growing up to 6 plants at a time is currently legal in CO. If grown properly, that's probably about 2 or 3 times more than a heavy smoker would need. So I think he's saying if the taxes are too high people will just buy it from their friends instead of going to the store.

KEEF
07-10-2013, 07:52 PM
Didn't read into it, but how does the government intend on taxing it? Is it going to be commercially packaged?... and if so, will the stupid FDA going to have to voice an opinion on it in regards to levels of THC?

...OH GOD, WTF would we do if Monsanto starts to get involved?

brandon
07-10-2013, 07:55 PM
Didn't read into it, but how does the government intend on taxing it? Is it going to be commercially packaged?... and if so, will the stupid FDA going to have to voice an opinion on it in regards to levels of THC?

...OH GOD, WTF would we do if Monsanto starts to get involved?

Yea, plans are to start permitting legal sales for recreational purposes in 2014. There's already plenty of medical dispensaries in the state.

Fredom101
07-10-2013, 08:03 PM
It was already taxed 30% in CO so in Denver it's 35%?

Wow.

It's all back to the black market. What a joke government is. :rolleyes:

kcchiefs6465
07-10-2013, 08:09 PM
It's not. Growing up to 6 plants at a time is currently legal in CO. If grown properly, that's probably about 2 or 3 times more than a heavy smoker would need. So I think he's saying if the taxes are too high people will just buy it from their friends instead of going to the store.
How many grams are you estimating per plant?

I don't know about all that. Especially if you are in a house of smokers.

In all actuality if you didn't want to go without, you'd want a separate area for vegetative and flowering stages. You'd have three little plants, and three mature plants. That would be pretty much year round. We're talking 90 days for clones. Three plants, what do you figure? A pound.. depending strain? Smoking a pound in 90 days isn't that unreasonable and you very well may have less. Five grams a day is a lot but when I smoked I could do it. Friends and family coming over and I'd probably run out. Not to mention you just don't want all of one strain. Need a variety. A strong indica for when you want to sleep and a strong sativa for when you want get thing accomplished. (less miserably, let's say) Six plants just seems low. If it's legal it should be legal. Whole houses full of crop if they wanted to. You guys still have the best laws in country regarding it. I just think they could be a little better.

Plus the market should be flooded with medicinal quality cannabis. Forty dollars an eighth should be considered absurd instead of a good deal.

What do they have big state run factory farms of marijuana out there? How do the stores get their product if you are limited to only a few plants?

Christian Liberty
07-10-2013, 08:12 PM
This definitely isn't cool, but its still a better situation than criminalization. While we should still fight this increase, we should also be happy that we're actually for the most part winning on this issue.

brandon
07-10-2013, 08:37 PM
I haven't smoked weed in years. I have no clue what the current yields are, but for my estimate I assumed 6 plants would take 3 months to grow and each produce 1 ounce (28 grams), which would give you about 1/2 ounce per week.

If you are in a house of smokers than I assume you can grow 6 plants per person living there, so I'm talking about 1/2ounce per person, per week.

Origanalist
07-10-2013, 08:44 PM
why would growing your own still be illegal if it becomes legal? It's a fucking plant. What's next, banning people from growing tomatoes in their backyard? GUILTY!

Don't let them catch you distilling alcohol. Or producing more than the legal limits of beer and wine.

Peace Piper
07-10-2013, 08:55 PM
I'm not sure about Amendment 64 but that is ridiculous. Eight plants.. depending the seeds you buy half will probably be male and have to be cut down. Down to four plants. Not to mention you'd want a constant garden. A separation of plants. They enjoy different a light spectrum from when they are seedlings compared to when they are mature. Ridiculous. Marijuana is legal in Colorado? That's a good one. People wouldn't know legal if it came up and smacked them in the face.

Many people think Washington "legalized pot". At least in CO a few plants are allowed. In WA a single plant remains a felony. Anything not bought from state licensed stores will be illegal. Anything over 28 grams is illegal. Driving is illegal now for most medical patients- all it takes is a checkpoint and an eager LEO.

It was a royal scam. A lie. But lots of people will tell you that WA "legalized pot".

California "legalized" medical pot. Look at what is going on there:
http://www.canorml.org/costs/federal_medical_marijuana_prisoners_and_cases


Meanwhile, federal authorities moved to shut down marijuana dispensaries in Echo Park, Westlake, south L.A., the harbor area, Long Beach, Lancaster and Pearblossom. The action so far involves mainly warning letters to most of the 103 storefronts targeted, according to a statement from the U.S. Attorney's Office in Los Angeles. The targeted 71 dispensaries in the city of L.A. involved all remaining known shops in the LAPD's Rampart, Newton and Harbor divisions, feds said

Elias Graves
07-10-2013, 09:21 PM
Did we really expect any less from government?

Just wait til big tobacco begins farming comercially with fertilizers and pesticides and pushing for all kinds of "safety regulations."

Keith and stuff
07-10-2013, 10:02 PM
Don't let them catch you distilling alcohol. Or producing more than the legal limits of beer and wine.

I've never heard of anyone coming after anyone for making beer, wine or moonshine where I live.

There's Moonshine In These Here New Hampshire Woods
By Todd Bookman
https://www.facebook.com/FreeStateProject.org/posts/577102582332992

And just think, both MS and AL recently charged their laws. Now people are allowed to make wine in all 50 states! Well, not quite yet, but the MS law will go into effect soon.

Home brewing legal in Alabama
By Phillip Rawls
http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20130510/NEWS/130509760

Origanalist
07-10-2013, 10:03 PM
Did we really expect any less from government?

Just wait til big tobacco begins farming comercially with fertilizers and pesticides and pushing for all kinds of "safety regulations."

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR8HBbwaZCe54IxfGN92QGZ6M949kNUo jCXE7aZ3XtF6DCsphNKNXMxsqq5dA