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View Full Version : Is it time we organized an independent Zogby poll commission?




EvilEngineer
11-27-2007, 07:12 AM
First off, let me say. F U Frank. I hate polls, pollsters, and the premise that these are in any way a realistic view of the world. What I cannot on the other hand get around is the fact that the MSM parrots the results of these polls for days and days, and that they DO actually have an influence on the weak willed who always want to be on the "winning" team.

So, as such, after reviewing the latest polls from zogby, and the blatant omission of Dr. Paul from the "front-runner" category and run offs, I think it is time that we come together and commission a poll put together by Zogby. If anything I saw a continuation of a trend with their polling, that bodes well for us. What is it you say? The ever increasing amount of people who refuse to vote for the people they choose in the head-to-head choices. The percentages voting for the candidates over the last year have gone from about 90% down to the mid to low 80%, which means 10% more are choosing other, or refusing to vote.

How devastating would it be to the MSM, for our commissioned poll to show the reality of the voting split. Instead of the near dead heats, a huge gap in the order 20% from a head-to-head matchup between Ron Paul and Hillary. We would have to use the similar methodology as the prior poll, but actually have Zogby include Ron Paul in it.

Just a thought, anyone agree?

Real_CaGeD
11-27-2007, 07:16 AM
"When in Rome"......


I say we play the game, commision two polls.

First poll should be very balanced. Second poll should favor our candidate. This would give us some insight into the profesional polling racket.

Eric21ND
11-27-2007, 07:35 AM
Is this going to also include people that don't have landlines?

Do you even trust Zogby?

Hope
11-27-2007, 07:40 AM
I don't think it's a good idea. They aren't going to let us play the same game -- if we pay for it, the media will be quick to point that out and people will think it's not as valid.

Besides, fuck you, Frank. I don't want to give those guys ANY money that could be going instead to the Ron Paul campaign. And to be honest, we can't have it both ways. Either the polls are fluffnstuff that really aren't indicative of election results...or not. We can't pat each other on the back and pretend that they're correct when our guy does well and incorrect when he doesn't.

Naraku
11-27-2007, 10:03 AM
I think a poll commissioned by asking people if they know all the candidates would be a good one.

A lot of these polls show hardly anyone knows Ron Paul. I think if you take a poll only of those who know about all the candidates it will turn out better for Paul than others. That's the easiest way to show how much support he has and it's realistic. If you know all the candidates than chances are you're going to actually be voting for one of them.

As in, do you know the candidates Giuliani, Romney, McCain, Thompson, Huckabee, Paul, Tancredo, and Hunter and their positions?

hillertexas
11-27-2007, 10:06 AM
I think this is NECESSARY. I think the Zogby poll Alex Jones commissioned was only $4000....we could commission many polls and it would be a win-win because:
If the MSM accepts it, great!
If the MSM questions the validity, it will call into question Zogby/national polls in general

EvilEngineer
11-27-2007, 12:56 PM
I think this is NECESSARY. I think the Zogby poll Alex Jones commissioned was only $4000....we could commission many polls and it would be a win-win because:
If the MSM accepts it, great!
If the MSM questions the validity, it will call into question Zogby/national polls in general

Agreed. I don't really like the idea of giving the pollsters money, but they are like any business. They give their client what they want.

If we had a poll that did a chain of questions based on positions, most will probably end up with Dr. Paul.

1. Do you want to reduce the size of government?
2. Do you believe that your personal liberties should not be infringed on by the government?
3. Do you believe in protecting your self?
4. Do you prefer a candidate that follows their oath of office?
5. Do you believe the constitution should be followed, even today?
6. Do you prefer peace to war?
7. Do you believe in a sound monetary system, and balanced federal budget?
8. Do you believe a candidates record is a good indication to how they will act in the future?

Or we can do the same matchup of Paul Vs _____, like they did with the other 5 republicans (I'm sick to death that they upped the top tier from 3 to 4 to 5, and still excluded Ron Paul)

Either way, we would need to start a chipin for this and get a contact with someone at Zogby.

jgmaynard
11-27-2007, 01:03 PM
Paying for polls has a couple of MAJOR advantages:

A) It allows us to run a highly scientific, fair poll (random dialing to get cell phones, Ron included in a random-ordered list) and see where we stand.

B) It's ADVERTISING. :) Every call is mentioning his name, building name recognition.

JM

Brian Bailey
11-27-2007, 01:16 PM
Is someone going to take this ball and run with it?

RTsquared
11-27-2007, 02:17 PM
I'm certainly willing to write an "unbiased" set of poll questions for a pollster to use. I've already got a few ideas kicking around in my head.

EvilEngineer
11-27-2007, 02:21 PM
Is someone going to take this ball and run with it?

I'm thinking I might have to. It might be a week before I get everything worked out, i'm in finals week right now so my schedule is kind of busy, but after that... I'm all Ron Paul.

hillertexas
11-27-2007, 02:24 PM
ZOGBY INTERNATIONAL
901 Broad Street, Utica, New York 13501 USA
1600 K Street, Suite 600, Washington, DC 20006 USA
NY phone 315.624.0200
Toll Free in the U.S. & Canada 1-877-GO-2-POLL | fax 315.624.0210

RTsquared
11-27-2007, 05:04 PM
Here's my first go at polling questions. Please let me know what you think.

1) Are you registered to vote?
--Continue on YES only
2) Are you planning on participating in your state's Presidential primary or caucus this cycle?
--Continue on YES only
3) Which political party are you a member of, if any?

4) Which of the following terms best describes your political ideology or outlook?
*Conservative
*Very Conservative
*Liberal
*Very Liberal
*Moderate
*Libertarian

5) Next, I am going to give you the names of some politicians. Please tell me whether or not these politicians are currently running for President in 2008.
[randomize order of names]
*Barack Obama, U.S. Senator from Illinois
*Mike Gravel, former U.S. Senator from Alaska
*Al Gore, former U.S. Vice-President from Tennessee
*Ron Paul, U.S. Congressman from Texas
*Rudy Giuliani, former Mayor of New York City
*Mike Huckabee, former Governor of Arkansas
*Rick Perry, Governor of Texas
*Bill Richardson, Governor of New Mexico
*John Kyl, U.S. Senator from Arizona
*Howard Dean, former Governor of Vermont
--Breakdown by correct answers - 8+ as attentive voter, else inattentive voter

6) Which of these issues facing Americans today is the most pressing?
[randomize order of issues]
*The war in the Middle East -- A
*Health care -- B
*The economy -- C
*Dependence on foreign oil -- D
*The decline of the American family -- E
*The erosion of civil liberties -- F

A)
1. On a scale of 1 to 5, with 1 being strongly disapprove, and 5 being strongly approve, what is your opinion of the Bush Administration's handling of the war in the Middle East?
2. In your opinion, is it the moral obligation of the United States to ensure democracy thrives in foreign nations?
3. At last count, the United States has military bases in approximately 130 foreign nations. On the 1-5 scale, with 1 being strongly disapprove, and 5 being strongly approve, what would your opinion be of a foreign nation having a military base on American soil?

B)
1. In the past 5 years, the average health insurance premium has increased 70%. Has the quality of your health care kept pace with the cost increases?
2. Is it in America's best interest for federal and state governments to make vaccinations mandatory for children despite religious objections from their parents?
3. In general, who would be more qualified to solve America's health care crisis: a lawyer or a doctor?

C)
1. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, prices have increased by 3.5% over the last year. From your expenditures in the past year, do you feel that this number is too high, too low, or about right?
2. Do you feel you get your money's worth from the income tax you pay every year?
3. Looking ahead, do you believe the economy will improve, regress, or stay about the same between now and the Presidential elections in November 2008?

D)
1. Should the Federal government authorize oil wells in wildlife preserves in order to lower fuel prices and lessen our dependence on foreign oil?
2. Would you support the expansion of nuclear power in order to lessen our oil demands?
3. On a scale of 1 to 5, with 1 being no impact, and 5 being a tremendous impact, to what degree does the weakness of the American dollar against foreign currencies impact the cost of oil for American consumers?

E)
1. Which of the following has had the greatest impact on the decline of the American family?
*Attacks on the sanctity of life (i.e. abortion, euthanasia)
*Increases in the divorce rate
*The need for second incomes driving women into the workplace
*Increased demand for instant gratification
*Hollywood glamorizing alternatives to the family structure
2. On a scale of 1 to 5, with 1 being not at all, and 5 being completely, how objective do you believe American media in general is?
3. Can someone who supports jeopardizing our soldiers through invasions of other nations be considered truly pro-life, regardless of his or her stand on abortion?

F)
1. Per legislation currently before Congress, `homegrown terrorism' means the use, planned use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual born, raised, or based and operating primarily within the United States or any possession of the United States to intimidate or coerce the United States government, the civilian population of the United States, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives. In your opinion, does this legislation violate the rights of freedom of speech and freedom of association as guaranteed in the 1st Amendment?
2. On a scale of 1 to 5, with 1 being not at all, and 5 being absolutely, how necessary is the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) in American society today?
3. In your opinion, is a strong defense of the 2nd Amendment (the right to keep and bear arms) necessary to maintain the 1st Amendment?

7) One final question: In your opinion, on a scale of 1 to 5, with 1 being not at all, and 5 being absolutely, how close is the American government today to the government George Washington and Thomas Jefferson envisioned when they helped draft the Constitution?

Smiley Gladhands
11-27-2007, 05:21 PM
I think a poll allowing the polled person to choose between Paul, Hillary, Obama, Rudy and Mitt would be an interesting poll.

Also, one question in there about 'How likely are you to vote in the primary? [1-10]' might be more meaningful than their usual, did you vote in the 2004 primaries question. Then if we can see the %age of people who are between 5-10 on that scale and see how many of them would vote for RP it might be bery telling.

Anyway, just a couple thoughts.

Naraku
11-27-2007, 05:57 PM
I think the best poll would have to consider how many people actually know all the major candidates. By that I mean do they know Paul and everyone above him in the polls? Maybe Tancredo or Hunter, since they're in the debates.

DjLoTi
11-27-2007, 06:00 PM
What Republican would you support for president?

For Ron Paul, press 1

then blah blah blah... make Ron Paul the first choice on all the positive options and see where he falls.

literatim
11-27-2007, 06:00 PM
I think a bio poll would be good. Not a blind one like Alex Jones, but one that says who they are and their background.

jake
11-27-2007, 06:01 PM
I think this is NECESSARY. I think the Zogby poll Alex Jones commissioned was only $4000....we could commission many polls and it would be a win-win because:
If the MSM accepts it, great!
If the MSM questions the validity, it will call into question Zogby/national polls in general


after much thought, i've got to agree with this viewpoint..

literatim
11-27-2007, 06:04 PM
Do we have a PAC that can back this?

We should do one specifically focused on who would you elect against Hillary Clinton.

Question 1
In a general election, who would you vote for: Press 1 Republican Ron Paul <enter bio> or Press 2 Democrat Hillary Clinton <enter bio>

Question 2
In a general election, who would you vote for: Press 1 Republican Fred Thompson <enter bio> or Press 2 Democrat Hillary Clinton <enter bio>

etc...

noztnac
11-27-2007, 06:09 PM
Alex Jones did that and screwed up. Don't let Zogby do anything but ask one question. Who are you going to vote for and list the candidates. Otherwise they'll spin it.

Alex Jone's poll gave a description of the candidates without their names...a blind poll. All that proved was that people support Ron Paul's positions and that they are idiots for not realizing he's running. We already knew that. Be sure to say all of the candidates names. Don't describe positions, give any explanations, or ask any additional questions. Zogby won't like it but if you are paying for it that's just tough.

RTsquared
11-28-2007, 06:32 AM
Sheesh! No feedback at all on the poll questions I wrote???

I wrote them, so of course I like them, but here is my justification:

1) It gives a somewhat accurate number of how much name recognition Dr. Paul has as compared to the candidates he polls nearest (Mike Huckabee, Bill Richardson).

2) Instead of asking someone how much attention they are paying to the campaign at this point, it actually measures it through the use of the names of different candidates.

3) Each set of questions regarding the various topics has a possible A-HA! moment if the pollee stops to think about it.

4) It takes the temperature of attentive voters vs. inattentive ones as far as what the most important issues are.