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Spanish Guy
07-05-2013, 02:56 AM
Taxes in Europe are really high right now, much higher than in any corner of the USA. For example in my country, we have a 21% VAT, a third of your salary is destinated to fund the Social Security (a 7% paid by the worker, and a 28 by the bussiness), for paying pensioners, and furthermore we have to pay income taxes, and lots of "special taxes" in lots of products as alcohol, tobacco, gas, etc. And there are countries with higher taxes. Obviously, when an American forumer complains about the taxes in California or Illinois, I can only see you with some healthy envy.

Some countries in Europe, like Greece, Italy or Spain, are widely known for having a huge informal economy, and, as a consequence an important tax evassion. Politcians in Spain try to show the tax evassion issue as a rich people thing, and our equivalent to the IRS, in the last months, have acted versus some very famous people in Spain as the chief Sergi Arola or footballer Lionel Messi, who has been forced to pay € 15,000,000 in order to avoid a trial.

However, it's not only a rich people thing. For example, recent stats show 12% of tobacco consumed in Spain come from counter-feiting, with that rate rising to 35% in some provinces like Cádiz, one of the poorest on my country, which has border with Morocco and Gibraltar. In those circunstances, the recent government decission of rising tobacco taxes (now a 20-cigarrete Marlboro's pack costs 4.70€, about six dollars), doesnt' seem to be very smart. Furthermore, in Spain is relatively common in some economic sectors, paying a service without creating any bill in order to avoid the VAT payment.

Theorically, one of the main objectives of almost every elected government in the EU is reducing the fiscal deficit. In Spain, with a conservative government, although there have been some measures in order to reduce public spending, like reducing the subsidies to the public universities or for buying medicaments, the government has tried to reduce the gap rising taxes. Since the current Administration took the power a year and a half ago, we've experienced five rises on income taxes, four on corporate taxes, two on VAT, one on taxation on Patrimony, four on the Special taxes on products like gas, tobacco or alcohol, and, on the energy sector, 7 different taxes have been created, including a tax on a material used for making Air-Acconditioning machines and fridges. And that situation is not very different in other European countries.

However, the tax rises are not increasing revenues, as they're deepening the recession, and, as long as the taxes keeps rising, tax evassion is rising too. European governments in general, and the Spanish one on special, always say that more tax rises would not be necessary if tax evassion will be lower. Personally I don't accept tax evassion, as I consider the rule of law and the juridic security one of the pillars of our civilization, but really, I can't understand how elected politicians across Europe, suppossedly with a great intelectual formation, are not able to understand tax evassion is a consequence of our infernal taxation or basic Economics concepts like Laffer curve.

Warlord
07-05-2013, 03:13 AM
Hello Spanish Guy, you should post more here... :)

Your English is very good sir.

Generalissimo
07-05-2013, 03:17 AM
His English is very good. Almost as good as Eduardo's.

Warlord
07-05-2013, 03:17 AM
His English is very good. Almost as good as Eduardo's.

Very true!

Petar
07-05-2013, 03:28 AM
"Jebuardo"

Generalissimo
07-05-2013, 03:35 AM
"Jebuardo"

Spanish Guy actually isn't one of my accounts.

Spanish Guy
07-05-2013, 03:37 AM
Who's Eduardo?

Generalissimo
07-05-2013, 03:38 AM
Who's Eduardo?

Yo!

Spanish Guy
07-05-2013, 03:45 AM
Encantado.

I suppose comments about my English are a complete sarcasm :D, but don't take it in count, the only place I use English regularly is on the net.

Generalissimo
07-05-2013, 03:48 AM
Encantado.

I suppose comments about my English are a complete sarcasm :D, but don't take it in count, the only place I use English regularly is on the net.

No, your English is very good. The joke was that people probably are going to think you're me.

Nobexliberty
07-05-2013, 03:53 AM
We suck in Europe.

Petar
07-05-2013, 04:33 AM
Spanish Guy actually isn't one of my accounts.

Heh, I just wanted to say the word "Jebuardo", any excuse will do.

otherone
07-05-2013, 04:57 AM
ahem.
The higher a countries taxes, the greater the underground economy....it's economics 101. Your comment about upholding the law as a pillar of civilization is unfounded. The "law" only carries a moral imperative if it is Just. Taxation is thievery. The wealthy don't attach any morality to money...that's why they're wealthy.

Spanish Guy
07-08-2013, 11:27 AM
ahem.
The higher a countries taxes, the greater the underground economy....it's economics 101. Your comment about upholding the law as a pillar of civilization is unfounded. The "law" only carries a moral imperative if it is Just. Taxation is thievery. The wealthy don't attach any morality to money...that's why they're wealthy.

I must reckon since I entered on the University I've always been a iuspositivist (sorry, it said in that way in English? I'm talking about Kelsenian school, etc..), although with the time I'm being more symphatetic to Natural Law seeing the overregulations made by Euro governments. My distrust towards Natural Law comes from the fact people are keen to consider their personal moral as the Universal Moral and Natural Law. So, what's Natural Law?

jbauer
07-08-2013, 12:06 PM
This thread is fantastic. I love getting input from others in different nations.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you. Unfortunately the decisions your country makes is a blueprint for how we'll make them here in years to come.

Czolgosz
07-08-2013, 12:10 PM
This thread is fantastic. I love getting input from others in different nations.




Same, here. The beauty of the 'net.

Nobexliberty
07-08-2013, 12:52 PM
Luckly for me and my conutrymen Sweden is a monarchy and no corrupt parlament can try to abolish it without a civil war. The monarchy is our for a free society. It might lead to tyranny but I prefer a powerful monarch to the status quo because a powerful monarch can be good while the status quo is everything but good.