Illinois may become next medical marijuana state in two weeks

[Jim Casey]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/07/03/decision-looming-on-marijuana-legalization-in-illinois/

2.5 ounces will be the limit, which is enough to stuff two small sandwich bags.
It would be great if the permitted shops allowed online mail order as well, I don't like having to drive somewhere to pick up. It would also make it easier to prevent sales tax noncompliance.

[mrsat_98]

Sales tax is analogous to everything is illegal unless you buy a license and pay a tax. Treason is all around you.

[Seraphim]

Someone who get's it....



Sales tax is analogous to everything is illegal unless you buy a license and pay a tax. Treason is all around you.

[Jim Casey]

Sales tax is analogous to everything is illegal unless you buy a license and pay a tax. Treason is all around you.
Licensing insures quality standards. Plus it creates more jobs by hiring those to enforce those standards. I do not want to buy when from an unlicensed dealer, far too many risks involved, not the least is possibly tainted product. If that's treason, then it's good treason.

[tod evans]

I'd rather buy my vegetables from a box-store than the farmer?

[Jim Casey]

I'd rather buy my vegetables from a box-store than the farmer?
Indeed I would. I do not want to be anywhere near the farmers, those kinds of crops are a magnet for theft and gang violence. I just want the product, not the drama so closely associated with it.

[tod evans]

Indeed I would. I do not want to be anywhere near the farmers, those kinds of crops are a magnet for theft and gang violence. I just want the product, not the drama so closely associated with it.

I'm so sorry!

[Jim Casey]

I'm so sorry!
Apology accepted.

[mrsat_98]

Licensing insures quality standards. Plus it creates more jobs by hiring those to enforce those standards. I do not want to buy when from an unlicensed dealer, far too many risks involved, not the least is possibly tainted product. If that's treason, then it's good treason.

What is a license ? (http://freedom-school.com/travel/what-is-a-license.html)

What is a drug ?

(g)
(1) The term “drug” means
(A) articles recognized in the official United States Pharmacopoeia, official Homoeopathic Pharmacopoeia of the United States, or official National Formulary, or any supplement to any of them; and
(B) articles intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease in man or other animals; and
(C) articles (other than food) intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of man or other animals; and
(D) articles intended for use as a component of any article specified in clause (A), (B), or (C). A food or dietary supplement for which a claim, subject to sections 343 (r)(1)(B) and 343 (r)(3) of this title or sections 343 (r)(1)(B) and 343 (r)(5)(D) of this title, is made in accordance with the requirements of section 343 (r) of this title is not a drug solely because the label or the labeling contains such a claim. A food, dietary ingredient, or dietary supplement for which a truthful and not misleading statement is made in accordance with section 343 (r)(6) of this title is not a drug under clause (C) solely because the label or the labeling contains such a statement.

what is "man or other animals" ?

[Jim Casey]

what is "man or other animals" ?
Other animals are the ones that the government is free to abuse for the sake of obtaining scientific evidence supporting their claims.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRrQWIX2QcA

[Kotin]

Licensing insures quality standards. Plus it creates more jobs by hiring those to enforce those standards. I do not want to buy when from an unlicensed dealer, far too many risks involved, not the least is possibly tainted product. If that's treason, then it's good treason.


Bullshit. Who decides quality?? And who decides someone is not good quality and undeserving of a "license"??

This is a violation of free consenting adults and contract rights. I should be able to provide a service to anyone as long as we both agree and make a contract. your tyrannical license system is just that... Tyrannical.

Your type of mentality is why the FDA is what it is today..

"Please protect me from bad quality because I cannot protect myself!!!" (That's you)

[Jim Casey]

Bullshit. Who decides quality?? And who decides someone is not good quality and undeserving of a "license"??

This is a violation of free consenting adults and contract rights. I should be able to provide a service to anyone as long as we both agree and make a contract. your tyrannical license system is just that... Tyrannical.

Your type of mentality is why the FDA is what it is today..

"Please protect me from bad quality because I cannot protect myself!!!" (That's you)
I can protect myself in certain regards. However, my protection is extended with government assistance, and I welcome it. Government's job is ensure a free market, and they cannot do that very well if they allow anyone to go around peddling medicine.

The protection pretty much pays for itself in the form of sales tax. Not to mention the prices quoted in the article are $35-40 an eighth whereas what I can get from black market cartels tends to be $60 for the same amount. Indeed, the government intervention in this market creates a bargain for the buyer. It's high time those pot consumers in Illinois stop being exploited by seller collusion.

[Kotin]

I can protect myself in certain regards. However, my protection is extended with government assistance, and I welcome it. Government's job is ensure a free market, and they cannot do that very well if they allow anyone to go around peddling medicine.

The protection pretty much pays for itself in the form of sales tax. Not to mention the prices quoted in the article are $35-40 an eighth whereas what I can get from black market cartels tends to be $60 for the same amount. Indeed, the government intervention in this market creates a bargain for the buyer. It's high time those pot consumers in Illinois stop being exploited by seller collusion.

You clearly and so disappointingly do not understand what a free market is.. You have a version of it that you have no problem forcing on others but I must point out.. That is NOT a even close to the principles of a free society.

You are a dangerous person seeing as how you will not educate yourself and therefore are fine using the threat of violence and imprisonment to enforce your own standards.

[mrsat_98]

I can protect myself in certain regards. However, my protection is extended with government assistance, and I welcome it. Government's job is ensure a free market, and they cannot do that very well if they allow anyone to go around peddling medicine.

The protection pretty much pays for itself in the form of sales tax. Not to mention the prices quoted in the article are $35-40 an eighth whereas what I can get from black market cartels tends to be $60 for the same amount. Indeed, the government intervention in this market creates a bargain for the buyer. It's high time those pot consumers in Illinois stop being exploited by seller collusion.

So the ends justfies the means. See Rochin vs California

[Jim Casey]

You clearly and so disappointingly do not understand what a free market is.. You have a version of it that you have no problem forcing on others but I must point out.. That is NOT a even close to the principles of a free society.

You are a dangerous person seeing as how you will not educate yourself and therefore are fine using the threat of violence and imprisonment to enforce your own standards.
I do understand very well many of the risks associated with the free market. That is why I want the government involved with licensing dealers so that I'm not subject to price gauging from cartelization and collusion among distributors. There will be less violence and imprisonment for those undeserving with such a policy.

If this makes me uneducated, then I am better off without such education.

[Kotin]

I do understand very well many of the risks associated with the free market. That is why I want the government involved with licensing dealers so that I'm not subject to price gauging from cartelization and collusion among distributors. There will be less violence and imprisonment for those undeserving with such a policy.

If this makes me uneducated, then I am better off without such education.


Lol you are really saying: " I don't want a free market because it scares me"

You don't want a free market at all so stop saying you do.

[Jim Casey]

Lol you are really saying: " I don't want a free market because it scares me"

You don't want a free market at all so stop saying you do.
Laugh all you want, I understand that there are severe risks associated with the free market and nobody takes them lightly. I do want the government to do it's job, which is provide for a free market. However, there are many free market advocates who would prefer cartelization and collusion to run rampant in their vision of a free market, so they oppose licensing. We must not allow distorted free market philosophies to victimize us.

It's high time Illinois got on board with allowing weed to be sold to citizens through licensed distributors. In two weeks we will see if obfuscations and agitations from misguided free market advocates prevent this from happening or not.

[Kotin]

I get it.. Its satire..

You know that there are real people like this though?? Ha. me fooled for a sec.

[noneedtoaggress]

Laugh all you want, I understand that there are severe risks associated with the free market and nobody takes them lightly. I do want the government to do it's job, which is provide for a free market. However, there are many free market advocates who would prefer cartelization and collusion to run rampant in their vision of a free market, so they oppose licensing. We must not allow distorted free market philosophies to victimize us.

It's high time Illinois got on board with allowing weed to be sold to citizens through licensed distributors. In two weeks we will see if obfuscations and agitations from misguided free market advocates prevent this from happening or not.

Cartels can only exist when they're propped up by the state. There's both internal and external market pressures that make them unstable unless they are propped up by force (ie, prohibition like drug cartels or regulation like banking).

Cartels and monopolies are products of the most fundamental monopoly there is, the monopoly on violence. (In fact that's where the word monopoly originated, as a description of state-sanctioned privilege.) The reason that the pharmaceutical industry is organized as it is today is because the FDA has it's hands all over it.

Licensing itself creates barriers to entry and props up an established industry which is organized by government writs of privilege. It's ironic that you're complaining about cartels on a free market while at the same time advocating fostering an environment which is restrictive to entrepreneurs and controlled by a central apparatus that is prone to be abused by those whose success is propped up by it.

[Jim Casey]

I get it.. Its satire..

You know that there are real people like this though?? Ha. me fooled for a sec.
It's only important for me to know when I'm acting.

Cartels can only exist when they're propped up by the state. There's both internal and external market pressures that make them unstable unless they are propped up by force (ie, prohibition like drug cartels or regulation like banking).

Cartels and monopolies are products of the most fundamental monopoly there is, the monopoly on violence. The reason that the pharmaceutical industry is organized as it does today is because the FDA has it's hands all over it.

Licensing itself creates barriers to entry and props up an established industry which is organized by government writs of privilege. It's ironic that you're complaining about cartels on a free market while at the same time advocating fostering an environment which is restrictive to entrepreneurs and controlled by a central apparatus that is prone to be abused by those whose success is propped up by it.
I would prefer the government be the central apparatus that is abused by the dealers, rather than the consumers themselves. I'll be glad that the entrepreneurs have to cut through the government red tape before they can make their product available to me, it will be easier to hold them accountable for poor business practices that way.

[noneedtoaggress]

It's only important for me to know when I'm acting.

I would prefer the government be the central apparatus that is abused by the dealers, rather than the consumers themselves. I'll be glad that the entrepreneurs have to cut through the government red tape before they can make their product available to me, it will be easier to hold them accountable for poor business practices that way.

The consumer is precisely who the abuse of the power of government is at the expense of, and government red tape does not make them accountable for poor business practices. See the banking industry. If they're in bed enough government will even take wealth directly from consumers in order to bail them out.

[noneedtoaggress]

Free-market voluntary certification is a great way to give consumers what you're asking for. Take Underwriters Labs for instance.

Authoritarian licensing rackets are a perfect way to get exactly what you're trying to get away from.

[tod evans]

Free-market voluntary certification is a great way to give consumers what you're asking for. Take Underwriters Labs for instance.

Authoritarian licensing rackets are a perfect way to get exactly what you're trying to get away from.

^^^^^^^^Read this carefully Jim Casey ^^^^^^^^^^^

[Jim Casey]

The consumer is precisely who the abuse of the power of government is at the expense of, and government red tape does not make them accountable for poor business practices. See the banking industry. If they're in bed enough government will even take wealth directly from consumers in order to bail them out.
If it takes government force to offer me an alternative to buying weed from the usual suspects, I welcome it. Take that wealth directly from me, what the sellers take is even worse. Ever try making small talk with a dealer or getting hold of one you can trust? Easier said than done, and my time is as valuable as my wealth. I've been rather impressed with banking industry reforms the past few years anyway, especially among e-currencies.

Free-market voluntary certification is a great way to give consumers what you're asking for. Take Underwriters Labs for instance.

Authoritarian licensing rackets are a perfect way to get exactly what you're trying to get away from.
Well the day a group like UL can make sure weed dealers are legit, then I won't be so interested in having the government do the job nobody else is stepping up to do.

[Keith and stuff]

Excellent. NH is passing it right now, but the NH law isn't as good. If this keeps up, in a couple years, half the states will have passed this! Sick people getting the meds they need is always good!

[noneedtoaggress]

If it takes government force to offer me an alternative to buying weed from the usual suspects, I welcome it.

It doesn't take that. The only reason things are organized the way they are is because weed is illegal and it's a black market. Again it's government force preventing you from having alternatives and more professional services.


Take that wealth directly from me, what the sellers take is even worse.

Even when it comes to prices, that's the reason the prices are what they are. You're paying for the risk involved. Licensing would only reduce prices in the sense that the market would be "free-er" than a black market, but it would still be higher than what an open market would have because now you're paying prices that are propped up under a racket. The more free it is the better a range of pricing and quality will be provided, and prices and quality will both be driven to the best deal for the consumer by competition.


Ever try making small talk with a dealer or getting hold of one you can trust? Easier said than done, and my time is as valuable as my wealth.

There's a wide gamut of people who sell marijuana and you can find it pretty much anywhere. Some people talk little, some people talk a lot. The people you're going to get in contact with are going to come down to who you know... again, because it's a black market and underground. What you're complaining about is caused by state prohibition and ending prohibition would fix it. Licensing is completely unnecessary.


I've been rather impressed with banking industry reforms the past few years anyway, especially among e-currencies.

If you're happy with the government's relationship to the banking industry I don't really know what to tell you, because it pretty much embodies what you're asking to prevent.


Well the day a group like UL can make sure weed dealers are legit, then I won't be so interested in having the government do the job nobody else is stepping up to do.

They aren't "stepping up" because the government is preventing it from legitimacy. It's a black market, not something that can be done out in the open. And even then you can already see how the market will trend toward this type of stuff, even where it can in the black market, with sites like the Silk Road implementing eBay style user feedback for dealers that use that service.

Advocating for a government licensing racket will only help prevent these voluntary regulatory agencies from propagating and give people false confidence in the licensing racket that the government provides.

[The Free Hornet]

Ever try making small talk with a dealer or getting hold of one you can trust? Easier said than done, and my time is as valuable as my wealth.

Are you high off your ass?

Do you have a milk dealer? A sock dealer? A toothpaste dealer? No, no, and no. You buy that shit at a place that sells any of the thousands of items you might need. What has twisted your brain to make you think you need to keep "dealers" in business? That whole class of person only exists because of the government you worship.

[Jim Casey]

Are you high off your ass?

Do you have a milk dealer? A sock dealer? A toothpaste dealer? No, no, and no. You buy that shit at a place that sells any of the thousands of items you might need. What has twisted your brain to make you think you need to keep "dealers" in business? That whole class of person only exists because of the government you worship.
I don't drink milk or use toothpaste, and I order my socks from amazon from whichever dealer has the best bulk offer for free super saver shipping. There's a lot of justifications out there for cannabis prohibition that I disagree with and the government is simply a tool used to enforce that restriction. It's also a tool that has done a lot to increase demand for the product, since the higher profits do encourage dealers to push it on the black market.

Even an online retail giant like amazon can't get state restrictive purchases right the way primewholesale does, so limiting licensed dealers to about 60 in Illinois with a 2.5 ounce maximum sale volume per purchase and strictly enforcing sales tax compliance for online state restricted sales could very well lead to both cultivation and distribution of cannabis becoming a respectable union job in this state.

[tod evans]

Taxes and unions are good......




Got it.:rolleyes:

[Jim Casey]

Taxes and unions are good......




Got it.:rolleyes:
That they are. I would never volunteer for a charity that distributes free weed to those who can't afford it. Such a charity would be nothing more than a tax dodge. Anyone looking to make money on weed growing and selling better pay taxes and union dues. Anyone else involved in weed trade can do it as charity work going through our union and tax channels, but avoiding the taxes themselves by writing them off as charity work to the IRS.

[tod evans]

Yup Illinois unions are the epitome of above board ethical business/labor practices!

Why not subsidize them with federal tax-dollars too?

[Jim Casey]

Yup Illinois unions are the epitome of above board ethical business/labor practices!

Why not subsidize them with federal tax-dollars too?
We're already subsidizing federal penitentiary prisons for some felonious distributors. Some union folks want better jobs than prison guards though, and we might get them in a couple weeks if this vote works out well.

[tod evans]

We're already subsidizing federal penitentiary prisons for some felonious distributors. Some union folks want better jobs than prison guards though, and we might get them in a couple weeks if this vote works out well.

I've got another idea...How about walling off Cook and Lake counties and pumping lake water into them until every living mammal is dead?

I can assure you the rest of the state would be grateful.

[amy31416]

I did not expect this thread to be so amusing.

[kcchiefs6465]

I can protect myself in certain regards. However, my protection is extended with government assistance, and I welcome it. Government's job is ensure a free market, and they cannot do that very well if they allow anyone to go around peddling medicine.

The protection pretty much pays for itself in the form of sales tax. Not to mention the prices quoted in the article are $35-40 an eighth whereas what I can get from black market cartels tends to be $60 for the same amount. Indeed, the government intervention in this market creates a bargain for the buyer. It's high time those pot consumers in Illinois stop being exploited by seller collusion.
This is the reason prices are so damn high.

Then there is a sales tax? Fuck that. While it is an improvement it is still leaps and bounds from where we ought to be.

Will you be allowed to grow your own? Or would you not trust your quality without a laboratory result?

And if you did trust your quality, what would make it wrong for you to sell said product to another who had similar trust in your skill and product?

What you are proposing, there will still be a black market. Thus there will still be gang violence and the problems that come with it. People could undercut that 35-40 dollars an eighth. Have a whole property (3-4 bedroom house) devoted to your craft and they could easily sell eighths for 20 dollars a piece while still maintaining an enormous profit. Have someone with the capital set up a factory and hire workers (real job creation, not for that bureaucratic bullshit they call "jobs") and they could undercut that price still. What you are referring to is price rigging to ensure profits by way of state monopolized control. Kind of hard to do with such a versatile plant. A weed that will grow damn near anywhere.

[belian78]

We can't even have our firearms with us in IL even though it's expressly laid out in the Constitution, you think they'll allow medical mj? lmmfao Oh sure, they may write a law saying we have that ok'd, but there will be so many provisions and exceptions/fees and regulations/red tape BS that 99% of people won't be able to take advantage of it.

[kcchiefs6465]

Well the day a group like UL can make sure weed dealers are legit, then I won't be so interested in having the government do the job nobody else is stepping up to do.
Many people have stepped up. You just don't know them and they don't wish to know you. They only associate with a select group of friends and don't much care to get rich (lol) selling weed.

It might be hard finding a respectable dealer because of a booming guaranteed private prison population. I'd imagine they are in "school" somewhere learning how to acquire SSNs from the Office of Vital Statistics and deadening their empathy and unwillingness to commit violence.

If the crop was legal, without government interference you wouldn't have had these problems to begin with. Their/your solution (to the problems they created) is flawed.

[kcchiefs6465]

We can't even have our firearms with us in IL even though it's expressly laid out in the Constitution, you think they'll allow medical mj? lmmfao Oh sure, they may write a law saying we have that ok'd, but there will be so many provisions and exceptions/fees and regulations/red tape BS that 99% of people won't be able to take advantage of it.
Indeed.

A lottery to see who will be able to open up shops. Not more than two per county or some such bullshit. Then people will complain why their medicine costs so damn much.

It isn't a competing free market at work, it is government collusion to try and ensure higher revenue.

Then you couple in the DUI laws that will spring up because of this and your state looks worse off. Not to mention the DEA raiding anyone who gets large enough to threaten their piece of the pie.

They didn't give a shit about Meneses and countless others who operated with impunity but let a mom and pop store sell a little cannabis to the community and everything will be seized. No exaggeration. Free country my ass.

[kcchiefs6465]

That they are. I would never volunteer for a charity that distributes free weed to those who can't afford it. Such a charity would be nothing more than a tax dodge. Anyone looking to make money on weed growing and selling better pay taxes and union dues. Anyone else involved in weed trade can do it as charity work going through our union and tax channels, but avoiding the taxes themselves by writing them off as charity work to the IRS.
I'd salute the man who takes on a mission of repopulating Illinois with that particular native plant.

Nothing fancy. Just them throwing bag seed around like they're Johnny Weedseed.

I'm a little amazed at this comment actually. I really don't know what to say.

At four thousand dollars a pound, which would be considered absurd with anything less than a state controlled monopoly, (whether legitimized or not... [black market or no]) that is 30 dollars an eighth. With an actual free market prices could be half that. You'd still have the option of buying THC and CBD labeled cannabis. People who are connoisseurs may pull out a loop and look at trichome maturity, smell the fragrance, perhaps even sample it before developing a bond with that particular supplier. Word would be bond. Someone gets ripped off, or sold something low in quality, people would hear about it. There could be online ratings for different professional growers or even people who contract at setting up sustainable gardens in one's house. They could troubleshoot problems if someone is just beginning to grow and they could charge accordingly. One hundred dollars an ounce would not be unreasonable to consider in an actual free market. Sales deal etc, as well.

You are talking about giving away cannabis as if it is a crime. The fuck?

[belian78]

Roadsides in rual IL used to flourish with wild cannabis plants. I remember when I was younger, it was a game picking out the cannabis plants from the rest along the roadsides. It was all useless for recreational use, it was all pollinated and you'd have to smoke almost a half ounce just to get a buzz, more often than not you'd just end up with a headache.

Bout the time I got into highschool it was a major thing to have the county works out there every spring cutting it all down and burning it. You don't see the wild plants anymore. I think they want it that way, one less way to provide for yourself.

[Czolgosz]

Hilarious, for sure.

[kcchiefs6465]

Bump.