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KEEF
07-03-2013, 06:16 AM
https://twitter.com/G_fasciatus/status/352400189593624576

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_NSA_SURVEILLANCE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT



BOLIVIA VS. EUROPE OVER SNOWDEN-LINKED PLANE DELAY
BY ANGELA CHARLTON
ASSOCIATED PRESS







http://hosted.ap.org/photos/7/7152c91e-b636-49b1-ab50-6dc2daa2c43a-small.jpg (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/photos/7/7152c91e-b636-49b1-ab50-6dc2daa2c43a.html?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
AP Photo/Juan Karita





http://analytics.apnewsregistry.com/analytics/v2/image.svc/AP/RWS/hosted.ap.org/MAI/V8067-2013-07-03T0743Z/E/prod/AT/APARIS (AP) -- Bolivia's president left Europe for home on Wednesday in a flurry of diplomatic drama after his flight was rerouted and delayed in Austria, allegedly because of suspicion he was trying to spirit NSA leaker Edward Snowden to Latin America.
Bolivia accused the United States of ordering European countries to block President Evo Morales' flight from their airspace, and accused European governments of "aggression" by thwarting the flight.
However it's still unclear whether European countries did block the plane and, if so, why. French, Spanish and Portuguese officials all said Wednesday the plane was allowed to cross their territory.
Morales sparked speculation during a visit to Russia after he said that his country would be willing to consider granting asylum to Snowden. Snowden is believed to be stuck in a Moscow airport transit area, seeking asylum from one of more than a dozen countries.
The plane carrying Morales home from a Moscow gas summit was rerouted to Austria on Tuesday night, adding a new twist to the international uproar Snowden's revelations of widespread U.S. surveillance. The plane took off again from Vienna shortly before noon Wednesday.
Austrian officials said Morales' plane was searched early Wednesday by Austrian border police after Morales gave permission. Bolivian and Austrian officials both say Snowden was not on board.
Despite the statements from France, Spain and Portugal, Bolivia's ambassador to the United Nations, speaking in Geneva on Wednesday, continued to insist that several European countries had refused permission for the plane to fly in their airspace.
Bolivian officials had said that France, Portugal and Italy blocked the plane from flying over their territories based on unfounded rumors that Snowden was on board. Bolivia said Spain agreed to allow the plane to refuel in the Canary Islands - but only if Bolivian authorities agreed to allow it to be inspected.
Sacha Llorenti said it was an "act of aggression" and that the four countries violated international law.
Llorenti said "the orders came from the United States" but other nations violated the immunity of the president and his plane, putting his life at risk.
There was no immediate U.S. response to Llorenti's accusation.
In Washington, the State Department would not comment directly Tuesday night. Earlier Tuesday, department spokesman Patrick Ventrell would not discuss how the Obama administration might respond if Snowden left the Moscow airport. "We're not there yet," he said.
French government spokeswoman Najat Vallaud-Belkacem said "France ended up authorizing the flight over its airspace by Mr. Morales' plane."
She said the plane "was authorized to fly over French territory" but wouldn't explain whether there had been an initial refusal Tuesday night amid the rumors about Snowden's presence on the plane.
Spain's foreign ministry said in a statement Wednesday that the country on Tuesday authorized Morales' plane to fly within its airspace and to make a refueling stop in the Canary Islands, and gave the authorization again on Wednesday morning after Bolivian authorities repeated the request.
A foreign ministry official declined comment when asked if Spain demanded the right to inspect the plane. The Spanish spoke on condition of anonymity because of ministry rules.
The Portuguese Foreign Ministry said in a written statement Wednesday that Portugal had granted permission for the plane to fly through Portuguese air space but declined Bolivia's request for a refueling stop in Lisbon due to unspecified technical reasons.
Italian officials were not available to speak on the subject Wednesday morning.
In Vienna, an official said that Morales' aircraft asked controllers at Vienna airport to land because there was "no clear indication" that the plane had enough fuel to continue on its journey. The official, who demanded anonymity because he was not authorized to go public with the information, said Austrian authorities could not comment on whether the plane was denied overflights by other countries.
"We don't know who invented this lie" that Snowden was traveling with Morales, Bolivian Foreign Minister David Choquehuanca said in La Paz. "We want to denounce to the international community this injustice with the plane of President Evo Morales."
In a midnight press conference in La Paz, Bolivian Vice President Alvaro Garcia described Morales as being "kidnapped by imperialism" in Europe.
Leaks by Snowden, a former NSA systems analyst, have revealed the NSA's sweeping data collection of U.S. phone records and some Internet traffic, though U.S. intelligence officials have said the programs target foreigners and terrorist suspects mostly overseas.
Snowden has applied for asylum in Venezuela, Bolivia and 18 other countries, according to WikiLeaks, a secret spilling website that has been advising him. Many European countries on the list - including Austria, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain and Switzerland - said he would have to make his request on their soil.
EU Transport spokeswoman Helen Kearns said it is up to national governments to allow or refuse planes entry into their airspace. She said it's unclear what happened with the Bolivian plane and whether or not it was refused access and why.
---
Sylvie Corbet in Paris, Ciaran Giles and Alan Clendenning in Madrid, George Jahn in Vienna, John Heilprin in Geneva, Raf Casert in Brussels and Barry Hatton in Portugal contributed to this report.
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Neil Desmond
07-03-2013, 07:34 PM
Wow, this wild goose chase is so aggressive and out of control that it's causing strain in international relations between nations beyond the US. I hope Bolivia (as well as the rest of the world) won't soon forget how disrespectfully their President - and along with that, how their nation - was treated. I think that any reasonable person would see it as an insult and despicable thing to do to a nation's President and its people. Perhaps Bolivia ought to ban flights by airlines from European Union (EU) member nations from transitting its airspace, and maybe even search all incoming & outgoing EU flights to see what kind of crap they're trying to sneak into or out of their country (at least I would, because this behavior would arouse my suspicion), until the leaders of the EU and member nations all make a public apology and vow to never let such an offensive thing happen again.

Generalissimo
07-03-2013, 07:35 PM
As wrong as it was for them to ground his plane, what's Bolivia realistically going to do about it? Nothing, a third world country run by a lunatic has absolutely no power in international affairs.

Mani
07-03-2013, 07:41 PM
How would people react if air force 1 was denied airspace and forced to reroute and land somewhere else?

Mani
07-03-2013, 07:43 PM
If the president of Bolivia and Ecuador gains the sympathy of south american countries and they come together to condemn the US and push back, now that woukd be interesting.

Generalissimo
07-03-2013, 07:45 PM
If the president of Bolivia and Ecuador gains the sympathy of south american countries and they come together to condemn the US and push back, now that woukd be interesting.

The big South American economies don't want anything to do with them. Chile, Colombia, and even leftist-Brazil won't back them when push comes to shove.

Mani
07-03-2013, 08:33 PM
Look at this:

Yahoo reporting via Atlantic Wire, trying to claim Bolivian president is just making stuff up....

http://news.yahoo.com/tale-routed-bolivian-presidents-plane-falling-apart-185343901.html?bcmt=1372893323298-969170ba-4f91-4cab-9df2-7f79f036f685_00002b000000000000000000000000-408fb3cb-bb4a-4be1-a278-dfe0665691ee


Today, France and Spain disputed Choquehuanca's claims

Two officials with the French Foreign Ministry said Wednesday that Morales' plane had authorization to fly over France. They would not comment on why Bolivian officials said otherwise.



But yet read WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20130703-708369.html

PARIS--French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius Wednesday evening apologized to Bolivia for closing its airspace to Bolivian President Evo Morales Tuesday evening when many suspected the Bolivian presidential jet might have been carrying National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden.

In an official statement, Mr. Fabius said he gave his Bolivian counterpart David Choquehuanca all the "necessary clarifications," though he didn't elaborate on the reasons why the French authorities denied Mr. Morales's presidential jet the right to cross France.

"There was, naturally, never any intention to block the access to our air space to the plane of President Morales, who is still welcome in our country," the Foreign Ministry said in an official statement sent by email.





How much mis-information is there? How much backstepping, misquoting, conflicting reports can there be?

Talk about Snowden's butterfly effect. Now you have Bolivian citizens throwing crap at the French embassy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23174874


And it seems other countries in Latin America are rallying behind Bolivia:


Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner referred to "not only the humiliation of a sister country, but of the South American continent".

Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro said on Twitter: "I reaffirm all our solidarity with Evo [Morales] and from Venezuela, with dignity, we will respond to this dangerous, disproportionate, and unacceptable aggression"

Ecuador's President Rafael Correa tweeted: "We express our solidarity with Evo [Morales] and the brave Bolivian people."

A statement by Brazil's President Dilma Rousseff said: "The embarrassment to President Morales hits not only Bolivia, but all of Latin America."

Grubb556
07-03-2013, 08:35 PM
If that plane was China's I doubt it would happen.

ClydeCoulter
07-03-2013, 08:50 PM
It only takes a small spark to light a fire that can grow and rage for days and destroy vast amounts of forest. Not that I think this will happen here. I've seen many a spark not create a fire, but I've seen a couple that did. You just need to keep sparking.

Dr.3D
07-03-2013, 08:56 PM
It would be pretty funny if Snowden was already in some other country and the United States was in the dark about it. What would be funny is that all of the threats would be in vain and sound so stupid when everybody finally found out the guy had been safe in another country all the time.

Generalissimo
07-03-2013, 09:00 PM
It would be pretty funny if Snowden was already in some other country and the United States was in the dark about it. What would be funny is that all of the threats would be in vain and sound so stupid when everybody finally found out the guy had been safe in another country all the time.

Since virtually every commercial jet has a pressurized cargo hold, it probably wouldn't be hard to smuggle him out of Russia if the Russians complied (or he paid someone at the airport off).

Carson
07-03-2013, 09:23 PM
I think that maybe with the sentiments of today he should of stayed on as an undocumented President for a while.

At least long enough to rearrange some of the furniture.

HOLLYWOOD
07-03-2013, 09:31 PM
How would people react if air force 1 was denied airspace and forced to reroute and land somewhere else?Well, in 1986, France denied US Air Force F-111s fighter-bombers to flyover French airspace, in route to Libya from Lakenheath Air Base, England. Some of those bombs targeted for Qaddafi 'accidentally' hit the French Embassy in Tripoli. Accident? of Course... NOT

Dr.3D
07-03-2013, 09:33 PM
Well, in 1986m France denied US Air Force F-111s fighter-bombers from Lakenheath Air Base, England which went on to bomb Libya. Some of those bombs 'accidentally' hit the French Embassy in Tripoli. Accident? of Course... NOT

I remember that. I thought that was pretty funny.

J_White
07-03-2013, 09:35 PM
how about this - maybe this was a preemptive sympathy gaining tactic by Bolivians -
first cry about how they were denied flying rights and forced to land.
if this creates enough international condemnation,
then NEXT time they fly, take Snowden with them !
LOL.