Snowden is being Stupid

[BSU kid]

Apparently Snowden failed Geography 101 in college, because his amnesty requests make absolutely zip-zero-nada sense. So, the United States is hunting you down and you need to find a country where your amnesty at least has a shot of being accepted. What do you do? You freaking apply for Amnesty in a bunch of Pro-U.S. countries like Austria, Finland, Ireland, Norway, Poland, Spain and Switzerland. Because NATO, EU members and U.S. allies are definitely going to risk their bums by giving you amnesty.:rolleyes: It's absolutely bizarre and stupid, and it's diminishing his case for amnesty elsewhere.

So where in Europe should he apply? Hmm Lets see.

-Russia. Who cares if Putin has conditions for you to stay at least you would be safe.
-Belarus. They hate the U.S. even more then Russia, they are located close to Moscow and most people couldn't even find this European country on a map.
-Moldova. Another European country that is in the same ball park, they are separate from the EU and dependent on Russia.

Nowhere else in Europe makes any sense, the sooner he figures this out the better imo. If you are on the run from a serial killer, would you ask to stay at his mothers house? That is essentially what Snowden is doing.

[Warlord]

It's not him doing it... more like wikileaks. He's in their stupid hands.

He should go to Venezuela obviously. Even Drudge thinks so.

[phill4paul]

Perhaps it is a way of exposing the collusion between the various states and that there is no where to run. I dunno.

[pcosmar]

Perhaps it is a way of exposing the collusion between the various states and that there is no where to run. I dunno.

That is becoming obvious,, intended or not.

And it is not just "US Gov".. It is the World Government.. The US is just the policeman.

[TonySutton]

He sounds pretty smart to me. A magician fools you by getting you to concentrate on certain things while he is actually doing something else, often right before your very eyes ;)

[RickyJ]

Wherever he goes the CIA will get him unless he always remains in a secure facility. He is safe no where from these criminals and I think he knows it.

[JK/SEA]

the BORG will get him. resistance is futile, and it will be up to you and me to turn the worm on this one.

We shall see soon enough how this all plays out. Meanwhile.....l

[liveandletlive]

It's about time he should just accept his fate and reveal the rest of the secrets. He reminds me of Winston Smith so much, its scary.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Wherever he goes the CIA will get him unless he always remains in a secure facility. He is safe no where from these criminals and I think he knows it.

Philip Agee died of natural causes. He did, however have passport and citizenship issues that makes Snowden's problems look mild:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Agee#Expulsion

Agee became something of a minor celebrity in the United Kingdom after the publication of Inside the Company. Agee revealed the identities of dozens of CIA agents in their London station.[10] After numerous requests from the American government as well as an MI6 report that blamed Agee’s work for the execution of two MI6 agents in Poland, a request was put in to deport Agee from the UK.[citation needed] Although Agee fought this and was supported by dozens of left wing MPs, journalists, and private citizens, he eventually departed from the UK on June 3, 1977, and traveled to the Netherlands.[19] Agee was also eventually expelled from the Netherlands, France, West Germany and Italy.

...

Agee's US passport was revoked in 1979. The State Department offered him an administrative hearing to challenge the passport revocation, but Agee instead sued in federal court. The case reached the Supreme Court, which ruled against Agee in 1981.[23]

In 1980, Maurice Bishop's government conferred citizenship of Grenada on Agee, and he took up residence in that island. The collapse of the Grenada Revolution removed that safe haven, and Agee then was given a passport by the Sandinista government in Nicaragua. After a change of government there, this passport was revoked in 1990, and he was given a German passport, the nationality of his wife, ballet dancer Giselle Roberge. They later lived in Germany and Cuba. Agee was later readmitted to both the U.S. and United Kingdom.[24] Agee's own description of his odyssey was published in his autobiography, On the Run, in 1987.

-t

[RickyJ]

Philip Agee died of natural causes. He did, however have passport and citizenship issues that makes Snowden's problems look mild:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Agee#Expulsion

Agee became something of a minor celebrity in the United Kingdom after the publication of Inside the Company. Agee revealed the identities of dozens of CIA agents in their London station.[10] After numerous requests from the American government as well as an MI6 report that blamed Agee’s work for the execution of two MI6 agents in Poland, a request was put in to deport Agee from the UK.[citation needed] Although Agee fought this and was supported by dozens of left wing MPs, journalists, and private citizens, he eventually departed from the UK on June 3, 1977, and traveled to the Netherlands.[19] Agee was also eventually expelled from the Netherlands, France, West Germany and Italy.

...

Agee's US passport was revoked in 1979. The State Department offered him an administrative hearing to challenge the passport revocation, but Agee instead sued in federal court. The case reached the Supreme Court, which ruled against Agee in 1981.[23]

In 1980, Maurice Bishop's government conferred citizenship of Grenada on Agee, and he took up residence in that island. The collapse of the Grenada Revolution removed that safe haven, and Agee then was given a passport by the Sandinista government in Nicaragua. After a change of government there, this passport was revoked in 1990, and he was given a German passport, the nationality of his wife, ballet dancer Giselle Roberge. They later lived in Germany and Cuba. Agee was later readmitted to both the U.S. and United Kingdom.[24] Agee's own description of his odyssey was published in his autobiography, On the Run, in 1987.

-t

If he got people killed he would have been killed too. The information he released got no one killed, they just blamed it on him. Anyways, what he revealed was limited in scope and didn't affect too many people, what Snowden is revealing is huge and affects just about everybody on planet Earth. They are more scared of what he hasn't revealed yet than what he has revealed. They have a very big problem with Snowden and must make an example of him to deter others from revealing their illegal activities as well. I pray God will protect him and his family, because without his divine help, Snowden is in for a world of hurt.

[jkr]

He should come back here

and when he gets off the plane he should do this:

http://www.sportsgrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/powerbird.jpg

then this:

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4518388303399386&pid=1.7

and they will do this:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3SaLxAloLTk/T6MoeAp4qhI/AAAAAAAACiQ/pB1WoHlncpc/s760/408880_police-brutality.jpg

and this:
http://derricksblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/oswald2.jpg

and this:
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4969565966501505&pid=1.7

and then, hopefully, HE will do this:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QYXz9wqEkLc/TKWK7BK8kRI/AAAAAAAABFQ/lOaD-Io8DWw/s1600/Jesus+Come+at+me+Bro.jpg


Stack his bones on the pile with the rest of the martyrs...

[Fredom101]

Apparently Snowden failed Geography 101 in college, because his amnesty requests make absolutely zip-zero-nada sense. So, the United States is hunting you down and you need to find a country where your amnesty at least has a shot of being accepted. What do you do? You freaking apply for Amnesty in a bunch of Pro-U.S. countries like Austria, Finland, Ireland, Norway, Poland, Spain and Switzerland. Because NATO, EU members and U.S. allies are definitely going to risk their bums by giving you amnesty.:rolleyes: It's absolutely bizarre and stupid, and it's diminishing his case for amnesty elsewhere.

So where in Europe should he apply? Hmm Lets see.

-Russia. Who cares if Putin has conditions for you to stay at least you would be safe.
-Belarus. They hate the U.S. even more then Russia, they are located close to Moscow and most people couldn't even find this European country on a map.
-Moldova. Another European country that is in the same ball park, they are separate from the EU and dependent on Russia.

Nowhere else in Europe makes any sense, the sooner he figures this out the better imo. If you are on the run from a serial killer, would you ask to stay at his mothers house? That is essentially what Snowden is doing.

How do you know he's being stupid? This could be genius.

BTW, Russia already rejected his application. Putin's ego is too big to have a high-profile guy like Snowden changing the world in his country.

Why not Iceland? I would think that's his best bet.

[tangent4ronpaul]

A big part of the problem is that the US Gvmt doesn't know what data he has.

-t

[JK/SEA]

[QUOTE=tangent4ronpaul;5105339]A big part of the problem is that the US Gvmt doesn't know what data he has.

-t[/QUOTE

yes they do.

[tangent4ronpaul]

[QUOTE=tangent4ronpaul;5105339]A big part of the problem is that the US Gvmt doesn't know what data he has.

-t[/QUOTE

yes they do.

White House Unsure What Files Edward Snowden Has
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/white-house-unsure-files-edward-snowden/story?id=19514086#.UdGspzvtWSo

A top aide to President Obama conceded that the administration doesn't know yet all of what Snowden allegedly swiped while he was a National Security Agency contractor before he slipped to Hong Kong earlier this month and then to Moscow.

"Look, I don't know with certainty what Mr. Snowden has," Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes told reporters in Dakar, Senegal. "That's something that we're actively seeking to determine."

Snowden has already compromised "very classified programs" by leaking them to three newspapers and by taking files overseas, Rhodes said, acknowledging that the government still believes he's carrying the files on his person.

"So we have very strict protocols for how to handle classified information. It doesn't involve getting on a plane and going to Hong Kong and then getting on a plane and going to Russia," Rhodes said.

The intelligence community is conducting both a damage assessment related to the leaks so far and a forensic audit of computers and systems that Snowden had access to, sources told ABC News. But the sources fear Snowden may have hidden his tracks well enough at NSA to make it impossible to determine everything he copied.

-t

[Barrex]

kid post and kid logic....please dont take offense.

[damiengwa]

Couple of points. All that WE know of the Snowden situation comes from some kind of media report. He is unable to directly speak to us via a youtube channel or anything like that. So we really have no idea what kind of give and take is happening behind the scenes. We have no idea what overtures people are making, what threats, etc. We also don't know what, if anything else, Snowden is sitting on with his encrypted data files he jacked from NSA networks.

In short, we REALLY dont know all the details. I read an article that applying everywhere for asylum is actually another stroke of activism of Snowden. All these countries now HAVE to go on record as to why they might deny him, that will build up public discussion and attention. Will lead to more people looking into just what he leaked and expose the long arm of the US and how it dominates all these allied countries.

Its not as stupid as it appears, and we don't know what alternate game plan Snowden is running. It forces the US state dept to have to lean on everyone now. There are so many reasons applying everywhere is not as dumb as it seems.

He just supposedly refused putin, b/c even putin put terms that he can't keep revealing things. Makes putin look like the US's bitch too. C'mon man, give this guy some credit.

He's locked in a high stakes game of poker with the US State Department and the major players in the international nation-state relations game. The ante is literally his own ass. Go easy on the boy, he's doing his best. Don't be so quick to monday morning quarter back. You are not the one with ball with no defensive line and the nastiest backs in the league looking to sack the shit out of you!

[damiengwa]

He should come back here

and when he gets off the plane he should do this:


IF he comes back, he should tip off a media crew and appear at congressman pete kings office adn confront him on why he is the fugitive whilst King and the US governments policies are actually illegal. The vid would be surreal. The look on his face if snowden were to walk into his office. Then he should walk over to McCain's office next, and every law maker till they tackle and arrest him. What a way to surrender! getting right in the face of these vapid, pencil neck chicken hawks.

[pcosmar]

White House Unsure What Files Edward Snowden Has

The White House lies.

I thought that would be obvious by now.

[BSU kid]

kid post and kid logic....please dont take offense.

Offense Taken

Why is my post "kid logic", sometimes Ron Paul people have a way of demeaning their own it would seem.

[Fredom101]

I get a little tired of people making blanket statements around here with 0 proof or even a link to back it up.
Examples are:

"Anonymous are the NSA."
"Wikileaks is controlled opposition."
"Snowden is a CIA asset."

All kinds of bullshit flying around, I don't mind people saying these things if they have some reasonable arguments or links to back them up.

[surf]

Offense Taken

Why is my post "kid logic", sometimes Ron Paul people have a way of demeaning their own it would seem.true. but keep in mind that some, myself included, see Snowden as one of our own...

[nbruno322]

Apparently Snowden failed Geography 101 in college, because his amnesty requests make absolutely zip-zero-nada sense. So, the United States is hunting you down and you need to find a country where your amnesty at least has a shot of being accepted. What do you do? You freaking apply for Amnesty in a bunch of Pro-U.S. countries like Austria, Finland, Ireland, Norway, Poland, Spain and Switzerland. Because NATO, EU members and U.S. allies are definitely going to risk their bums by giving you amnesty.:rolleyes: It's absolutely bizarre and stupid, and it's diminishing his case for amnesty elsewhere.

So where in Europe should he apply? Hmm Lets see.

-Russia. Who cares if Putin has conditions for you to stay at least you would be safe.
-Belarus. They hate the U.S. even more then Russia, they are located close to Moscow and most people couldn't even find this European country on a map.
-Moldova. Another European country that is in the same ball park, they are separate from the EU and dependent on Russia.

Nowhere else in Europe makes any sense, the sooner he figures this out the better imo. If you are on the run from a serial killer, would you ask to stay at his mothers house? That is essentially what Snowden is doing.

Ukraine?

[69360]

In hindsight he was stupid to leak the info before he was in the country he planned to ask for asylum. I think at this point, assuming the FSB doesn't have him, his only chance to get away is leaving with the Venezuelans.

[GregSarnowski]

It looks like Snowden's father is coming out in support of his son and is being represented by Bruce Fein. I assume the same Bruce Fein who was the Ron Paul campaigns' chief legal counsel.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/ap-snowdens-father-praises-son-open-letter-19556109

[BSU kid]

Ukraine?

Yes and no, it would be wiser then applying to a place like France or Poland but at the same time the Ukraine has been trying for years to grow closer to the West and cut its ties to the East. Their president is actually more pro-East, which is one thing that would work in Snowdens favor but at the same time he likely would not like to burn the rest of Europe.

On the other hand, the president of Belarus is almost a complete dictator with no Euro aspirations. It would not look good on Snowden to go there, but at least he is already near by and it would give him somewhere permanent to stay. Belarus is the last ex-soviet country to still have the "KGB", just to give you an idea of how backwards it is. It's almost like Venezuela in Europe, and sadly only socialist countries like Venezuela or Belarus are likely to accept Snowden.

[Keith and stuff]

That is becoming obvious,, intended or not.

And it is not just "US Gov".. It is the World Government.. The US is just the policeman.

Yup. So much for all of the patriot, liberty, conspiracy theorists plans of leaving the US and being left alone. You think you are safe from the US in Mexico? Wrong. You think you are safe from the US in Costa Rica? Wrong. You think you are safe from the US in Chile? Wrong. You think you are safe from the US in Switzerland? Wrong. Hopefully, Snowden is helping some of these 'I give up on the US , I'll leave the nation and be free from oppression folks' realize that their theories are invalid. Maybe you can escape the US in a country run by a dictator like North Korea or Russia, or a anti-American socialist country like Venezuela, but you aren't gonna find freedom in an ally nation such as Mexico or Switzerland.

[Barrex]

Offense Taken

Why is my post "kid logic", sometimes Ron Paul people have a way of demeaning their own it would seem.
Ok. Lets examine it a little bit.


Apparently Snowden failed Geography 101 in college, because his amnesty requests make absolutely zip-zero-nada sense. So, the United States is hunting you down and you need to find a country where your amnesty at least has a shot of being accepted. What do you do? You freaking apply for Amnesty in a bunch of Pro-U.S. countries like Austria, Finland, Ireland, Norway, Poland, Spain and Switzerland. Because NATO, EU members and U.S. allies are definitely going to risk their bums by giving you amnesty.:rolleyes: It's absolutely bizarre and stupid, and it's diminishing his case for amnesty elsewhere.

So where in Europe should he apply? Hmm Lets see.

-Russia. Who cares if Putin has conditions for you to stay at least you would be safe.
-Belarus. They hate the U.S. even more then Russia, they are located close to Moscow and most people couldn't even find this European country on a map.
-Moldova. Another European country that is in the same ball park, they are separate from the EU and dependent on Russia.

Nowhere else in Europe makes any sense, the sooner he figures this out the better imo. If you are on the run from a serial killer, would you ask to stay at his mothers house? That is essentially what Snowden is doing.
You got no facts. No evidence. You dont know what is his strategy or what is his train of thoughts. Everything you post is just speculation and empty talk. I am sure as hell that you are not in his shoes. I am sure as hell that your life is not threatened and that you will not spend your entire life wondering what will happen next. I am sure that you are not spending your time thinking will you be tortured tomorrow or will you spend rest of your life in jail cell without windows and no visitors allowed because you are a "traitor" and "security risk". Calling Snowden stupid ("being stupid"...semantic) and questioning his decisions like that tell a lot about your intelligence (shit this sounds like insult but it is not my intention). I am pretty sure he took a lot of time to think what will he do next since rest of his possibly short life depends on it. I am pretty sure he and his lawyer thought this thing through. How much time did you spend thinking about his options before insulting him?

I never saw list of countries he applied for asylum. "Pro US countries" are entire western world. You put Austria, Finland, Ireland, Norway, Poland, Spain and Switzerland in same basket. They are different in so many ways that I cant begin to describe it to you. For example Poland burned Monsantos GMO fields against wishes of US government. Your presumption of predetermined outcome is stupid (since you used that word)

In this video you can see what we do to what is equivalent to White House:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6yds89-_y0

To say that only Venezuela is viable option is ignorant.

P.s.
For some reason your post just rubbed me the wrong way. Some reasons I stated but there are many more. I got nothing personal against you.

[Grubb556]

Switzerland isn't pro USA, Bush had to cancel a trip to Switzerland out of fear of being arrested.

[GregSarnowski]

Yup. So much for all of the patriot, liberty, conspiracy theorists plans of leaving the US and being left alone. You think you are safe from the US in Mexico? Wrong. You think you are safe from the US in Costa Rica? Wrong. You think you are safe from the US in Chile? Wrong. You think you are safe from the US in Switzerland? Wrong. Hopefully, Snowden is helping some of these I give up on the US, I'll leave the nation and be free from oppression folks realize that their theories are invalid. Maybe you can escape the US is a country run by a dictator like North Korea or Russia, or a anti-American socialist country like Venezuela, but you aren't gonna find freedom in an ally nation such as Mexico or Switzerland.

Yes but what is your point? Obviously the Free State Project being located in New Hampshire is directly subject to the Federal government goons. So why pick up and move there when nearly everything of import that can be accomplished will be overridden by "progessives" in NYC and LA via their influence in D.C.?

Or is the idea to hopefully pack the NH legislature with people who will tell the federal government, when they come around with their carrots and sticks, to shove it?

I actually did attend porcfest for the first time this year and had a blast. It was like a hippie music festival except for anarchists lol.

[Keith and stuff]

Switzerland isn't pro USA, Bush had to cancel a trip to Switzerland out of fear of being arrested.
I thought Switzerland agreed to the bank and tax demands the US gave it?

[Occam's Banana]

I fail to understand why or how Snowden is "being stupid" by filing so many requests for asylum. Just off the top of my head, I can think of at least two reasons why it is very smart: (1) it maximizes his chances of actually being granted asylum somewhere, and (2) it throws up a smokescreen that helps to conceal his intended or hoped-for destination(s). I am sure that other good reasons could be derived or discovered, if one wished to try.


sometimes Ron Paul people have a way of demeaning their own it would seem.

Oh, like when one of us declares that Snowden (who is something of a Ron Paul person, going by his campaign contributions) is "being stupid."

Like that, you mean?

[daviddee]

...

[Contumacious]

I thought Switzerland agreed to the bank and tax demands the US gave it?

Swiss lawmakers reject deal to end US tax spat (http://news.yahoo.com/swiss-lawmakers-reject-deal-end-us-tax-spat-100515908.html)

.

[daviddee]

...

[Anti Federalist]

He should have been wherever he was going to go, before releasing anything.

Let that be a Lesson Learned.

[AmericasLastHope]

From Twitter...

Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 8m

BREAKING - EDWARD #SNOWDEN ARRIVED IN VIENNA, ORF TV SAYS (via @peter_temel)
Retweeted by Stacy Herbert

[dannno]

ICELAND ICELAND ICELAND ICELAND

[daviddee]

...

[phill4paul]

Which of these independent, yet united, states will offer asylum?


















Bwahahahahahahahahaha!

[gwax23]

I get a little tired of people making blanket statements around here with 0 proof or even a link to back it up.
Examples are:

"Anonymous are the NSA."
"Wikileaks is controlled opposition."
"Snowden is a CIA asset."

All kinds of bullshit flying around, I don't mind people saying these things if they have some reasonable arguments or links to back them up.

Welcome to the Ron Paul forums.

[AmericasLastHope]

From Twitter...

Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 8m

BREAKING - EDWARD #SNOWDEN ARRIVED IN VIENNA, ORF TV SAYS (via @peter_temel)
Retweeted by Stacy Herbert

Apparently false rumors...

Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 29m

Bolivian presidential aircraft after departing Moscow makes emergency landing in Vienna as Spain, France and Italy deny entry into airspace
Retweeted by Stacy Herbert

CNN Breaking News ‏@cnnbrk 9m

Bolivia: Presidential plane forced to land after false rumors of #Snowden onboard. http://on.cnn.com/12Dz2jz
Retweeted by Stacy Herbert

[daviddee]

...

[Barrex]

In reality, France and Portugal were notified by someone that Snowden was on the flight. I suspect he probably is. Will Austria violate a president of another nation for the USA? If the Gringos screw around with Morales this could get interesting very fast - South America will erupt. Just another example as to why countries want nuclear weapons. If Bolivia was a nuclear state this would not be happening.

I really dont see that happening.

P.s.
It also sounds kinky.

[Peace Piper]

And if anyone is interested, my recommendations would have been:
1. Serbia - They hate the USA and they hate USA's lapdog Albania. Serbia has a long history, since the war of NATO aggression, of thumbing their nose at the USA.

Serbia: The First PNAC War
http://newamericancentury.org/balkans.htm

Backing up Globalization with Military Might
http://www.globalissues.org/article/448/backing-up-globalization-with-military-might


The U.S. and NATO Prevented a Peace Agreement

The key reason used to justify the NATO attack was that Milosevic refused to sign the Rambouillet "peace agreement." Actually, the chance to arrive at a peaceful settlement of the crisis during the talks in Rambouillet and Paris, last February and March, was thwarted. Even the short time initially allotted to "negotiate" this complex question showed a lack of seriousness. It becomes clear by perusing the text of the Rambouillet "agreement" (20) that the Contact Group, especially the U.S., did not want a peace agreement because no nation would have signed away its sovereignty as required in that document. It was accompanied by an ultimatum to sign or be bombed. This was deja vu for the Yugoslavs. In 1941, Hitler had ordered them to capitulate to his pact or be bombed. Then as now, they refused and were bombed. The Austro-Hungarian Empire, in its thrust toward World War I, inflicted a similar edict on Serbia, in 1914...

... "For globalism to work, America can't be afraid to act like the almighty superpower that it is....The hidden hand of the market will never work without a hidden fist-McDonald's cannot flourish without McDonnell Douglas"- Thomas Friedman, NYT