Where would you go if you were Snowden? [Archive] - Ron Paul Forums / Liberty Forest

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tangent4ronpaul

07-02-2013, 12:18 AM

The poll above lists the 19 newly announced countries Snowden has appealed to for asylum. Which ones would you consider? Pick as many as you want.

Iceland and Ecuador are not on the list.

-t

Carlybee

07-02-2013, 12:20 AM

I would figure out a way to sneak into Tibet and become a monk

dillo

07-02-2013, 12:24 AM

ID take the trial

oyarde

07-02-2013, 01:24 AM

kcchiefs6465

07-02-2013, 01:42 AM

That list ? Easy , Bolivia or Nic.
Nicaragua would be a no go for me. No doubt the CIA still has living contacts in the region that Snowden would be wise not to want to meet. Such a small country too, you'd be transported over State lines and brought back in no time. If you weren't extradited to begin with that is.

Bolivia, I don't know. Could go be a mountain man. Truth be told I really wouldn't want to be in South America. We've been involved in basically every one of the countries to the point that I'd fear certain rendition. Hard choice, no where is really safe.

Occam's Banana

07-02-2013, 02:43 AM

I cannot vote in this poll because Bhutan is not an available option. Eric Snowden should go to Bhutan.

From there, he can be recruited into the League of Shadows, which will shelter and train him.

Then, once he has fully mastered the arts of deception and theatricality ...

AlexAmore

07-02-2013, 03:01 AM

I suspect you could go to Russia, sell off the secrets, and live very comfortably ever after.
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4pxozBmUF9p92GUjDJOSM-e2qsqIx2dFr-8EN46R3JgIJVh7zNg

goRPaul

07-02-2013, 03:13 AM

I would go to France. The food and the women... yes.

mrsat_98

07-02-2013, 03:16 AM

Brazil has the best beeches

Generalissimo

07-02-2013, 03:19 AM

Washington DC. They'd never suspect me to be there.

tangent4ronpaul

07-02-2013, 03:26 AM

The latest:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23139980

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov later said Mr Snowden withdrew the application to Russia because Moscow had said he should give up "anti-American activity".

"After learning of Russian's position yesterday, voiced by President Putin ... he abandoned his intention [of staying] and his request to be able to stay in Russia," he said.
...
Polish Foreign Minister Radoslav Sikorski said on Twitter his country had received an application but that he would not be recommending granting the request.

Norway's foreign ministry later said its embassy in Moscow had received an application by fax which was "probably from him".

But Norway, Poland, Germany, Austria, Finland and Switzerland said asylum requests could only be made on their soil.

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, who is on a visit to Moscow, said Caracas had not yet received an asylum application from Mr Snowden but that he had "done something very important for humanity" and "deserved the world's protection".

Mr Snowden had previously submitted an application to Ecuador, whose embassy in London is sheltering Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, and to Iceland.

Ecuador's President Rafael Correa told the Agence France-Presse news agency on Monday that his country would process Mr Snowden's asylum request if he managed to enter an Ecuadorean embassy.

However, if he can complete his asylum request on Russian territory , then "the situation can be processed and resolved there," President Correa added.

Details have also emerged of a letter from Mr Snowden to President Correa, thanking Ecuador for guaranteeing "my rights would be protected upon departing Hong Kong - I could never have risked travel without that".

-t

tangent4ronpaul

07-02-2013, 06:00 AM

Venezuela Defends Snowden but Hedges on Offering Sanctuary
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/03/world/europe/snowden.html?google_editors_picks=true&_r=0

MOSCOW — President Nicolás Maduro of Venezuela said Tuesday that he had not yet received an application for political asylum from Edward J. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who is on the run from the American authorities, and that he would not use his plane to ferry Mr. Snowden to Caracas.

Still, Mr. Maduro, who is visiting Moscow, seemed to hold out the possibility that Venezuela might ultimately agree to shelter Mr. Snowden. Speaking to legislators and reporters at the Russian Parliament, Mr. Maduro said that Mr. Snowden deserved protection under international law.

“He did not kill anyone and he did not plant a bomb,” Mr. Maduro said, according to Russian news services. “He only said a big truth to prevent wars.”

As an international oil and gas forum convened here on Monday, there had been speculation that President Vladimir V. Putin and Mr. Maduro would use the opportunity to negotiate terms for Mr. Snowden to leave the transit area at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo Airport, where he arrived from Hong Kong nine days ago.

He had apparently intended to board a connecting flight headed for Latin America. In the interim, the United States announced that his American passport had been revoked, leaving him in a geopolitical limbo, stripped of any valid travel document and unable to leave the transit zone.

Russia enjoys warm ties with Venezuela, a major arms customer and energy partner, which sees the alliance as a way of countering the United States’ influence in Latin America.

The newspaper Izvestia speculated Monday that Mr. Maduro could spirit Mr. Snowden away on his presidential plane when he leaves Russia on Tuesday, arranging to take off from Sheremetyevo instead of a government facility at Vnukovo Airport. But at a news conference on Monday, Mr. Putin responded blankly to that theory.

“As to the possible departure of Mr. Snowden with some official delegation,” he said, “I know nothing.”

Even as Mr. Maduro seemed to hedge about Venezuela’s intentions, a spokesman for Mr. Putin confirmed that Mr. Snowden on Monday had submitted asylum requests to 15 countries. The spokesman, Dmitri S. Peskov, however, said that Mr. Snowden had rescinded his request for asylum in Russia.

“He has abandoned his intention and his request for the opportunity to remain in Russia,” Mr. Peskov said on a conference call with a small group of reporters in Moscow. At the same time, however, Mr. Peskov reiterated that Russia had no intention of extraditing Mr. Snowden to the United States, where the death penalty is a possibility for him if he is convicted.

On Monday, Kim N. Shevchenko, the Russian consul at Sheremetyevo Airport, said that Mr. Snowden’s traveling companion had hand-delivered an asylum request to the consular office in Terminal F of the airport, and that it had been passed on to the Foreign Ministry.

The request had threatened to deeply complicate Russia’s position in Mr. Snowden’s case, potentially making it impossible to maintain the mostly neutral position that Mr. Putin has sought to stake out since Mr. Snowden landed in Moscow.

The Russian Constitution gives the president direct authority over asylum requests.

At his news conference on Monday, Mr. Putin tried to thread the needle, saying Mr. Snowden was welcome to stay in Russia as long as he stopped publishing classified documents that hurt the United States’ interests. He went on to acknowledge that this was unlikely to happen.

“If he wants to go somewhere and they accept him, please, be my guest,” Mr. Putin said. “If he wants to stay here, there is one condition: He must cease his work aimed at inflicting damage to our American partners, as strange as it may sound from my lips.”

He added, “Because he sees himself as a human-rights activist and a freedom fighter for people’s rights, apparently he is not intending to cease this work. So he must choose for himself a country to go to, and where to move. When that will happen, I unfortunately don’t know.”

Mr. Putin’s comments reflected an increasingly sober view of the outcome if Mr. Snowden remains in Russia. For the second time, he took pains to say that Mr. Snowden had not been recruited by Russian intelligence — an impression that could corrode Mr. Snowden’s image as a truth-teller and drive away some supporters.

“He sees himself not as a former agent of a special service but as a fighter for human rights, a sort of a new dissident, someone similar to Sakharov, on a different scale, though,” Mr. Putin said. “But nevertheless, at his core he is a fighter for human rights, for democracy.” The reference was to the Soviet dissident Andrei Sakharov.

While Mr. Snowden remains at Sheremetyevo, the United States has engaged an array of countries that have considered granting him asylum, making clear that doing so would carry big costs.

Ecuador, the country that is sheltering the WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, has distanced itself, with top officials saying that it could take as long as two months to process Mr. Snowden’s asylum request and that Russia bore most responsibility for his fate.

Mr. Putin’s spokesman said as recently as Sunday that Mr. Snowden’s case “was not one on the Kremlin’s agenda,” noting that Sheremetyevo’s transit zone is legally not the part of territory of the Russian Federation.

“Snowden himself is in a pretty difficult situation,” said Dmitri V. Trenin, director of the Carnegie Moscow Center. “I think he was following Assange’s advice trying to get to Ecuador, but then Ecuador, and, indirectly, Cuba, have failed him. I think Venezuela is talking to the U.S. as well. The U.S. can offer things to Venezuela.”

Mr. Snowden’s application for asylum could make it difficult for the Kremlin to remain neutral, especially since the case has become a primary topic for public discussion in Russia over the last several days.

A parade of public figures — including human rights activists, pro-Kremlin figures, Communists, nationalists and parliamentarians — have made statements in favor of granting him asylum. As anchors read reports on Mr. Snowden’s case on a popular news program Monday night, a vivid blue-and-red backdrop read “Betray Snowden — Betray Freedom” and showed President Obama wearing headphones, a visual reference to the surveillance programs Mr. Snowden has revealed.

“To be honest, I can’t see any problem there,” Ivan Melnikov, one of the leaders of Russia’s Communist Party, told Interfax. “If the problem is hysterics from the United States, they ought to remember that, historically speaking, granting political asylum to figures like Snowden is normal historical practice, and there’s no reason for Russia to be embarrassed and drop out.”

At a round table on Monday, a prominent leader of United Russia, the main pro-Kremlin party, said Mr. Snowden “has done no less to win the Nobel Prize than Barack Obama.” Kirill Kabanov, a member of the presidential human rights council, described Mr. Snowden as a man who “tried to save the world.”

Sergei A. Markov, a pro-Kremlin analyst, said that if Mr. Snowden received asylum, he could acquire a Russian transit document and leave the country, or else remain in the country as a public figure, which he said would be “very good for public relations, he will be like Gérard Depardieu.” Mr. Depardieu, the French actor, sought Russian citizenship to avoid taxes in his home country.

Mr. Markov said Russian leaders had spent several days weighing their options and taking a measure of domestic public opinion. The result, he said, was “more or less consensus over this issue.”

-t

libertarianMoney

07-02-2013, 07:18 AM

The odds of Snowden getting out of this safe are getting more bleak by the day. It's depressing to watch. None of the smaller countries have the structure in place to really protect him. Some of the little guys are also probably talking about how they can use him to make a profit. None of the bigger countries want the United States to be an enemy.

If I were Snowden... I might talk to some officials in Russia and feel them out before getting every leak out there. Then saying... "All done. I won't hurt America anymore." Depending on Russia's intentions here, he could get away with it. Maybe he could even lie and say he didn't leak everything. I think Russia might be the safest place for him. Every time he tries to travel there is going to be a target on his back.

KEEF

07-02-2013, 07:35 AM

Warlord

07-02-2013, 07:41 AM

Venezuela

Maduro sounds keen and it makes sense. They can't apply the screws on them since they have oil and gas and Maduro will be president forever.

DGambler

07-02-2013, 07:50 AM

The Vactican

tangent4ronpaul

07-02-2013, 10:45 AM

Asylum Options Narrow Further for Snowden
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/03/world/europe/snowden.html?pagewanted=all

Asylum options appeared to narrow further on Tuesday for Edward J. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor on the run from American authorities, as at least eight countries reacted unfavorably to his requests for sanctuary and the Kremlin said he had withdrawn his application to Russia.

Only Venezuela and Bolivia appeared to offer him a hint of hope for a way out of his limbo inside the international airport transit lounge at Sheremetyevo airport in Moscow, where he has been ensconced out of public view for nine days.

President Nicolás Maduro of Venezuela, visiting Russia, said that while he had not yet received an application from Mr. Snowden and would not use his plane to ferry Mr. Snowden home with him, he held out the possibility that Venezuela might ultimately agree to shelter Mr. Snowden.

Speaking to legislators and reporters at the Russian Parliament, Mr. Maduro said that Mr. Snowden deserved protection under international law.

“He did not kill anyone and he did not plant a bomb,” Mr. Maduro said, according to Russian news services. “He only said a big truth to prevent wars.”

The president of Bolivia, Evo Morales, signaled that Mr. Snowden would be welcome there as well.

But Austria, Finland, Ireland, Norway and Spain all said that requests for asylum must be made in person on their territories and therefore Mr. Snowden had not properly submitted an application, though only Austria acknowledged receiving a request from him. India and Brazil said they had rejected Mr. Snowden’s request outright. Poland said that it had received an application that was not properly submitted, but that it would have been rejected in any event.

Officials in Germany were noncommittal.

(more at link - but nothing new)

-t

RickyJ

07-02-2013, 10:51 AM

It is sad that he can't come to the USA! Our criminal government is out of control and most Americans act as if they don't even care!

pcosmar

07-02-2013, 11:01 AM

Not sure,, He is a Target wherever he goes.

I would NOT be flying anywhere. I would look for passage on an obscure cargo or private ship.
Preferably with someone that is familiar with smuggling. (Avoiding Imperial entanglements)

And nowhere is safe.. But Iran may give some protection,, for a time.

RickyJ

07-02-2013, 11:06 AM

If he is going to be stuck in that airport then we should at least try to make sure he is as comfortable as possible considering what he has done for us and the world.

ravedown

07-02-2013, 11:08 AM

Andorra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andorra

RickyJ

07-02-2013, 11:11 AM

North Korea and possibly Iran would accept him in a heart beat, but I don't think he really wants to live the rest of his life in those nations. Hong Kong wouldn't have been too bad either, but I don't know if they would have given him asylum. Syria would probably accept him too, but considering the war going on there now, that doesn't seem to be a good place to go.

Lucille

07-02-2013, 11:20 AM

I can't stop thinking how if Ron were president, Snowden would be free, and so would Manning and Assange (and so many others).

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-02/snowden-withdraws-russia-asylum-request-nine-countries-deny-application

Things are turning from bad to worse for the real-life version of The Terminal's Edward Snowden, who a day after applying to 21 countries for political asylum has been flooded with rejection letters near and far, even as he was forced to cancel his application to his current host nation, Russia, after being told he would have to stop leaking secrets as a condition to stay. More from the FT: "The 30-year-old fugitive’s options narrowed further on Tuesday when China reacted coolly to the idea of him moving there, Poland rejected an application and other European nations said asylum requests had to be made in the country."

One wonders is Snowden's fate to return to the US, and face a lifetime in prison, if and when all of his purported future homelands give up on him?
[...]
* * *

Guardian has released an updated list of where the asylum applicant countries stand currently:

Austria

No. The interior minister, Johanna Mikl-Leitner, said Snowden would have to submit his request for asylum while on Austrian soil. But she added that he would not be deported if he arrived in Austria because "there is no international arrest warrant".

Bolivia

No response.

Brazil

No. A foreign ministry spokesman said Brazil would not grant asylum, adding that it would leave the request unanswered.

China

No response.

Cuba

No response.

Ecuador

No. The president, Rafael Correa, said he was not considering Snowden's asylum request. In an interview with the Guardian, Correa said Snowden would have to reach Ecuadorean territory before the country would consider any asylum request. The US has cancelled Snowden's passport, and Correa said his government would not give Snowden an authorised travel document to extract himself from Moscow airport. "The right of asylum request is one thing, but helping someone travel from one country to another – Ecuador has never done this."

Finland

No. The Finnish foreign ministry spokeswoman Tytti Pylkkö said Finnish law required Snowden to be in the country for him to apply.

France

No response. The president, François Hollande, has called for a common EU stance on the NSA snooping.

Germany

No response.

Iceland

No response.

India

No. Syed Akbaruddin, a spokesman for India's foreign ministry, said on Twitter: "Following careful examination we have concluded that we see no reason to accede to the Snowden request"

Italy

No response.

Ireland

No. A spokesman for the department of justice said that under Irish law an asylum application could only be accepted from a person who had landed in or was within the state.

The Netherlands

No response.

Nicaragua

No response.

Norway

No. The Norwegian deputy justice secretary, Paal Loenseth, told the state broadcaster NRK: "Applying for asylum should be done on Norwegian soil. According to normal procedures … his demand will be denied."

Poland

No. The foreign minister, Rados?aw Sikorski, wrote on his Twitter account: "I will not give a positive recommendation."

Russia

No. Snowden withdrew his request after Vladimir Putin's statement making clear that he would be welcome only if he stopped "his work aimed at bringing harm" to the United States.

Spain

No. The foreign minister, José García-Margallo, told reporters in the Spanish parliament: "For it [the application] to be legally admissible, it has to be made by a person who is in Spain."

Switzerland

No response.

Venezuela

Possible. On a visit to Moscow, the president, Nicolás Maduro, said he would consider an asylum request and said the whistleblower "deserves the world's protection".

"We think this young person has done something very important for humanity, has done a favour to humanity, has spoken great truths to deconstruct a world … that is controlled by an imperialist American elite," he said.

But asked whether he would take Snowden back to Venezuela with him, Maduro answered wryly: "What we're taking with us are multiple agreements that we're signing with Russia, including oil and gas."

Thor

07-02-2013, 11:25 AM

PaulConventionWV

07-02-2013, 11:27 AM

If I were Snowden, I would try to think of where I would go if I were Snowden, and then go someplace completely different.

Anti Federalist

07-02-2013, 11:29 AM

It is sad that he can't come to the USA! Our criminal government is out of control and most Americans act as if they don't even care!

They care.

Most Americunts hate him and want, as was relayed in another thread, the CIA to kill him.

This is what we are up against.

This is why all the talk is pointless.

It's now becoming life or death.

Snowden is just one of the first martyrs.

RickyJ

07-02-2013, 11:59 AM

They care.

Most Americunts hate him and want, as was relayed in another thread, the CIA to kill him.

This is what we are up against.

This is why all the talk is pointless.

It's now becoming life or death.

Snowden is just one of the first martyrs.

I don't believe most Americans hate him. I think most Americans don't know much about him at all, but I don't think they hate him.

Christian Liberty

07-02-2013, 12:19 PM

I don't think there are any drones that can hit Mars. That takes the cake...:p

DGambler

07-02-2013, 12:37 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOL0tfBCEAE2f7Q.jpg:large

Dr.3D

07-02-2013, 12:44 PM

Washington DC. They'd never suspect me to be there.

Yep, might just be able to work at the White House. As stupid as intelligence is, they wouldn't ever guess he was there.

Anti Federalist

07-02-2013, 01:25 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOL0tfBCEAE2f7Q.jpg:large

http://www.gothereguide.com/Images/USA/Washington/The_white_house.jpg

Fredom101

07-02-2013, 01:29 PM

You need to add Iceland, which is my pick.

amonasro

07-02-2013, 01:40 PM

*double post*

amonasro

07-02-2013, 01:40 PM

I would gain access to a professional hair and makeup facility, disguise myself as an English nanny, and get a job working for my ex-wife to be close to my kids and prove that I can make it as an actor.

georgiaboy

07-02-2013, 01:44 PM

[worst joke of my life]
Sorry, but if it were me, I wouldn't be going anywhere if I were snowed in.
[/worst joke of my life]

Thor

07-02-2013, 01:48 PM

You need to add Iceland, which is my pick.

Mine too. But supposedly Snowden did not apply there, so it is not on the list. Unless that is the decoy.

69360

07-02-2013, 01:52 PM

Mine too. But supposedly Snowden did not apply there, so it is not on the list. Unless that is the decoy.

The current president of Iceland is friendly to the US, he would cave and extradite him.

DGambler

07-02-2013, 01:55 PM

I stated it early, but no one responded... why not the Vatican? They have a big beef with Obama over Obamacare and it seems like this is something the Church *should* be supporting (e.g. stopping tyranny).

Now granted, they provided asylum for Nixon Moreno, so I'm not sure what their standards are.

Occam's Banana

07-02-2013, 02:11 PM

I don't believe most Americans hate him. I think most Americans don't know much about him at all, but I don't think they hate him.

Most Oceanians didn't know much about (or really hate) Emmanuel Goldstein, either.
They just thought what they were told to think about him. It came to the same thing ...

ladyjade3

07-02-2013, 02:25 PM

Itly! Itly!

Lucille

07-02-2013, 03:55 PM

They're all scared of the NWO beast (aka the American Empire). Even though it committed an act of war against all of them (http://voxday.blogspot.com/2013/07/national-stasi-of-america.html). Quivering weasels.

An enraged US has warned countries against accepting Snowden (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/02/edward-snowden-asylum-rejections), who they are seeking on charges that he violated the espionage act when gathering and leaking classified documents outlining the National Security Agency's surveillance programmes.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/p480x480/1010761_10151440337991316_1007678417_n.jpg

randpaul2016

07-02-2013, 05:55 PM

Italy because that is where I was born :)

Smart3

07-02-2013, 06:09 PM

I would figure out a way to sneak into Tibet and become a monk

You really think China would let you into Tibet?

Lucille

07-02-2013, 06:09 PM

Re Italy and Snowden's possible whereabouts:

WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks 19s Italy has also been confirmed as a state that refused airspace to President Morales of Boliva's jet, suspected of carrying Edward Snowden.

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 12m I'll be on with @chrislhayes in a few minutes talking about diversion of Morales' plane, NSA, Snowden, etc.

randpaul2016

07-02-2013, 06:11 PM

Re Italy: WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks 19s Italy has also been confirmed as a state that refused airspace to President Morales of Boliva's jet, suspected of carrying Edward Snowden.

huh

Natural Citizen

07-02-2013, 06:13 PM

Wherever he goes I hope he's remembered his umbrella and slickers. Is all I have to say about that. :rolleyes:

Lucille

07-02-2013, 06:17 PM

WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks 7m States now named: France, Portugal, Italy, Spain. Was the alert NATO wide? If so which NATO state gave airspace from Moscow? Germany?

daviddee

07-02-2013, 06:19 PM

...

Occam's Banana

07-02-2013, 06:33 PM

You really think China would let you into Tibet?

The phrase used was "sneak into Tibet" ...

GregSarnowski

07-02-2013, 06:36 PM

Can't he just assume a new identity and go disappear into Europe somewhere? Dye his hair, get rid of the glasses (contacts or lasics), maybe burn off his fingerprints. Get a new SS# and passport, how hard could it be, heck they sell that stuff on the SR for bitcoin. No doubt many people take on new identities every day for a variety of reasons.

Then again, that doesn't seem to be the route he wants to take. I'm still not quite sure why he even came out publicly. It seemed Greenwald, et.al were more than willing to keep his existence confidential. Maybe he thought the NSA would figure it out eventually. Most likely it is as it appears -- he is principled and not ashamed of standing up for the fourth amendment. But I hope he is not regretting his decision to step out of the shadows now.

As repulsive as the media feeding frenzy around Snowden is, at least it keeps the issue in the news. If he had remained anonymous the corporatist news organs probably would've stopped mentioning the surveillance state completely by now.

FrancisMarion

07-02-2013, 07:14 PM

The Vactican

exactly where I was thinking. Vatican City. Is it not time for papal power?

daviddee

07-02-2013, 07:22 PM

...

osan

07-02-2013, 08:37 PM

The poll above lists the 19 newly announced countries Snowden has appealed to for asylum. Which ones would you consider? Pick as many as you want.

Iceland and Ecuador are not on the list.

-t

There is a fair to middling chance that Snowden's life will not be worth a plugged kopek once things "settle down". I can easily see him having an unfortunate accident and the message to the world will be clear as a bell regarding the fate for all whistle blowers.

I do hope, however, that he gets away with this and keeps his life. But what a price to pay to do the right thing. One must respect what this man has done. Most of us probably would not have the nerve. I'm not even sure I would, and I tend to be a fairly cool customer. Crossing these mobsters is nothing to take lightly, that is for certain.

Anti Federalist

07-02-2013, 08:54 PM

I'd go back even further really.

We lost our country in the whirlwind right after WWII.

That's when the bloodless coup happened.

It became a bloody coup in 1963.

And it's been all downhill since.

The first martyrs of this battle were:
Sammy Weaver
Vicki Weaver
Timothy McVeigh
The Branch Davidians

18 years later... This round in the battle will be fought with information and intelligence... Exposing the US Govt for what we know it is.

kcchiefs6465

07-02-2013, 09:08 PM

I'd go back even further really.

We lost our country in the whirlwind right after WWII.

That's when the bloodless coup happened.

It became a bloody coup in 1963.

And it's been all downhill since.
I'd go back even further.

We lost our country in 1910 with the planning of our central bank, specifically 1913 with the passing of the Federal Reserve Act. The rest is just an afterthought.

The thought had been propagated and instigated for many, many years. They were finally successful.

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country.
A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit.
Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation,
therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men.
We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely
controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world.
No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by
conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by
the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

Source:
Attributed. In reference to signing the Federal Reserve Act in 1913. Most likely a compilation of 2 quotes from his book The New Freedom, 1916. No source found for "I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country."

I've always liked this quote even with its questionability. Made him seem human, one who understood his mistakes.

Dick Cheney and his ilk undoubtedly won't have much to say about the world they've created.

The money trust is full and running, dollar hegemony guaranteed through blood and propagandized sweat. Indeed, we've been on a downward spiral for at least 100 years. I could argue longer but 1910 truly seems to be a turning point in US history.

Occam's Banana

07-02-2013, 09:42 PM

I'd go back even further really.

We lost our country in the whirlwind right after WWII.

I'd go back even further.

We lost our country in 1910 with the planning of our central bank, specifically 1913 with the passing of the Federal Reserve Act. The rest is just an afterthought.

I'd go back even further.

We lost our country in 1861-1865 when the rights of separation & secession were repudiated and federal absolutism was enthroned.

Okay. Now it's someone else's turn to say that he or she would go back even further than that - and that we lost our country when the Articles of Confederation were usurpred & overthrown in the coup that produced the Constitution ...

:p;):D Damn. I mean, we've lost our country so many times it ain't even funny. :eek::(:mad:

kcchiefs6465

07-02-2013, 09:46 PM

I'd go back even further.

We lost our country in 1861-1865 when the rights of separation & secession were repudiated and federal absolutism was enthroned.

Okay. Now it's someone else's turn to say that he or she would go back even further than that - and that we lost our country when the Articles of Confederation were usurpred & overthrown in the coup that produced the Constitution ...

:p;):D Damn. I mean, we've lost our country so many times it ain't even funny. :eek::(:mad:
Marbury v. Madison?

kcchiefs6465

07-02-2013, 09:52 PM

I think the thing to take away about this discussion is incrementalism.

No more please.

They're persistent. Unlimited resource and I'd be too.

I doubt many of our Congressmen and Senators would even read a thirty page bill. You get one up in the five hundred to one thousand pages and they don't know what the hell it reads. And even if they did, which to be clear, 99% don't, they wouldn't have had the chance to decipher the language. It isn't written in a way where one notices off hand their intention. It's cryptic, takes a long time to understand, and even then it's interpreted AND misinterpreted certain ways to fit an elite narrative later down the line.

TaftFan

07-02-2013, 10:01 PM

Does the Vatican accept these sorts of people?

Switzerland would be my top pick.

GregSarnowski

07-02-2013, 10:02 PM

pcosmar

07-02-2013, 10:59 PM

Carlybee

07-03-2013, 12:39 AM

You really think China would let you into Tibet?

Yeah you're probably right...forgot that China has made it a virtual prison these days.

oyarde

07-03-2013, 01:12 AM

Nicaragua would be a no go for me. No doubt the CIA still has living contacts in the region that Snowden would be wise not to want to meet. Such a small country too, you'd be transported over State lines and brought back in no time. If you weren't extradited to begin with that is.

Bolivia, I don't know. Could go be a mountain man. Truth be told I really wouldn't want to be in South America. We've been involved in basically every one of the countries to the point that I'd fear certain rendition. Hard choice, no where is really safe.

From there, I can fade away to Never Land , easy.

Barrex

07-03-2013, 02:39 AM

The Vactican

GOOOOOOOOAAAALLLL..
Cant believe it is not on the list or mentioned before... any church can provide "sanctuary".

tangent4ronpaul

07-03-2013, 03:09 AM

Why isn't Sweden on the list of countries to try for asylum?

It makes a lot of sense.

-t

Warlord

07-03-2013, 05:04 AM

More votes for Venezuela please... i've been calling it for days and want to win 3 packs of cigarettes from AF. After all cigarettes are the only currency in prison.

6 days ago:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?419650-Things-not-looking-good-for-Snowden-Asylum&p=5098973&viewfull=1#post5098973

4 days ago:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?419850-Julian-Assange-Edward-Snowden-is-%91marooned-in-Russia%92&p=5102056&viewfull=1#post5102056

Smart3

07-03-2013, 08:09 AM

Yeah you're probably right...forgot that China has made it a virtual prison these days.

Shhh or you'll be sent to a Socialist village.

whippoorwill

07-03-2013, 08:19 AM

Egypt?

surf

07-08-2013, 06:04 PM

bump, and I just want it noted that I voted for Brazil -
Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 2h
Brazilian Senators call on their govt to give asylum to Snowden, cancel state dinner in USA, in protest of NSA spying http://oglobo.globo.com/mundo/senadores-defendem-que-brasil-conceda-asilo-edward-snowden-8962251 …

a hero deserves to live in a happy place and Brasil can be this

torchbearer

07-08-2013, 06:06 PM

He should stay away from King's Crossing.

Barrex

07-08-2013, 06:43 PM

He should stay away from King's Crossing.

WTF MERLIN!

Do you have any idea how much planing it took to set that thing up? Pih... There is always one. Isnt it?

torchbearer

07-08-2013, 07:05 PM

WTF MERLIN!

Do you have any idea how much planing it took to set that thing up? Pih... There is always one. Isnt it?

freemen live north of the wall. he should go north...