AP: Snowden has asked for asylum in Russia

[angelatc]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/us-defends-intelligence-sweep-same-allies


MOSCOW (AP) — The Interfax news agency says a Russian consular official has confirmed that National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden asked for political asylum in Russia.

[enhanced_deficit]

Why did team Obama cancel his passport while he was passing through Russia that apparently got him stranded there and not while he was in HK? They think they have better chance with Putin?

[angelatc]

I think it is probably just because nobody thought to do it. They're really not efficient.

The narrative will now be that he's always been a communist spy.

[Brian4Liberty]

Three reasons Obama should pardon Snowden

Reason 1:


1. Snowden can return to the US, and the US will no longer have to worry about Snowden becoming entangled with foreign powers. Making him a fugitive drives him into the arms of foreign powers, which is exactly the opposite of the interests of the United States.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?419583-Three-reasons-Obama-should-pardon-Snowden

[Constitutional Paulicy]

The narrative will now be that he's always been a communist spy.

This is what they want and this is what they will get. People will buy into all the media hype and paranoia the government and media can dish out. I've more or less given up on my countrymen. They disappoint me to no end.

[enhanced_deficit]

I think it is probably just because nobody thought to do it. They're really not efficient.



This is pretty efficient:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?419951-Gay-couple-in-Florida-win-green-card-to-stay-in-the-US&

Could be matter of choice when they want to be efficient.

[fisharmor]

Why did team Obama cancel his passport while he was passing through Russia that apparently got him stranded there and not while he was in HK? They think they have better chance with Putin?

I thought I heard they did cancel it before he left HK, and that he made it to Russia with an Ecuadorean refugee passport.
Yeah, he had been working with Assange who knew the system, and then Ecuador decided to pull Snowden's paperwork because they don't like Assange...
...wasn't that it?

[Brian4Liberty]

They think they have better chance with Putin?

The neo-conservatives (Trotskyites) will jump at any chance to increase tensions with Putin. They are still butt-hurt all these years later about Stalin driving them out of Russia. Putin represents a new Stalin to them, in other words, a leader that stands in the way of global schemes.

[AngryCanadian]

(Russia: to Snowden its best you give us every Intel you have on the Spying program then we can grant you Asylum)

[69360]

It wasn't just Russia. He's applied in 15 countries in total according to other news stories.

[Elias Graves]

Why did team Obama cancel his passport while he was passing through Russia that apparently got him stranded there and not while he was in HK? They think they have better chance with Putin?

I'm guessing because it gives the administration a good propaganda narrative. "Look! He's a traitor to the Red Menace!"

[enhanced_deficit]

Putin represents a new Stalin to them, in other words, a leader that stands in the way of global schemes.

Not to mention neecons Syria, Iran wars planning also is hindered by Putin's support for these two countries.
Not sure if this is what they preferred but looks convenient to discredit whistleblower at same time.

[Constitutional Paulicy]

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/LF_ZL9nuSELqLij_TyPLeA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTMzODtweW9mZj0wO3E9OD U7dz00NTA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2013-07-01T154829Z_1_CBRE96017WV00_RTROPTP_2_USA-SECURITY-SNOWDEN-PUTIN.JPG

Putin says Snowden should stop harming 'our American partners'
Reuters 1 hour ago Vladimir Putin



MOSCOW (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin made starkly clear on Monday that Edward Snowden was not welcome in Russia, and voiced solidarity with the United States over the fugitive former U.S. spy agency contactor.

However, speaking eight days after Snowden arrived at a Moscow airport where he is believed to remain, Putin repeated that Russia had no intention of handing the American over to the United States, which wants him on espionage charges.

For the second time in a week, he said Russian intelligence agencies were not working with Snowden and urged him to leave as soon as possible. "If he wants to go away somewhere and someone will accept him there, by all means," Putin said.

"If he wants to stay here, there is one condition: He must stop his work aimed at harming our American partners, as strange as that sounds coming from my lips," Putin told reporters after a gas exporters' conference in Moscow.

more here.... http://news.yahoo.com/putin-says-snowden-stop-harming-american-partners-151307032.html

[Brian4Liberty]

Putin says Snowden should stop harming 'our American partners'


Ex-KGB Putin finding common cause with Big Brother? Shocking!

[RickyJ]

"If he wants to stay here, there is one condition: He must stop his work aimed at harming our American partners, as strange as that sounds coming from my lips," Putin told reporters after a gas exporters' conference in Moscow.

Partners in what may I ask? I think I liked it better when the US and Russia pretended to be enemies, this is too much.

[RickyJ]

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/LF_ZL9nuSELqLij_TyPLeA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTMzODtweW9mZj0wO3E9OD U7dz00NTA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2013-07-01T154829Z_1_CBRE96017WV00_RTROPTP_2_USA-SECURITY-SNOWDEN-PUTIN.JPG

Putin says Snowden should stop harming 'our American partners'
Reuters 1 hour ago Vladimir Putin




more here.... http://news.yahoo.com/putin-says-snowden-stop-harming-american-partners-151307032.html

I get it now, Putin is speaking sarcastically.

[KEEF]

Why the change in heart? Did I miss the memo at the last Bohemian Grove Convention?

[RonPaulMall]

So the article starts with:

"MOSCOW (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin made starkly clear on Monday that Edward Snowden was not welcome in Russia, and voiced solidarity with the United States over the fugitive former U.S. spy agency contactor."

but then the last sentence quotes Putin as saying, ""If he wants to stay here, there is one condition: He must stop his work aimed at harming our American partners, as strange as that sounds coming from my lips."

In other words, Putin did NOT make starkly clear that Snowden was not welcome in Russia. To the contrary, he seemed to indicate Snowden was welcome to stay in Russia but with the condition that he couldn't use Russia as a base to disclose more leaks.

[LibertyEagle]

Once KGB, ALWAYS KGB.

[tod evans]

Good God!

I halfway expect Mr. Snowden to become so frustrated with these politicians that he turns the whole shebang lose on the world.

And I couldn't blame him.

[economics102]

Let's hope some other brave country offers him *unconditional* asylum. This is not sounding good so far.

[RonPaulMall]

Let's hope some other brave country offers him *unconditional* asylum. This is not sounding good so far.

Assuming he's already given most of the information he had to the Guardian, I don't see it as that horrible of an outcome. Russia is probably on the whole a better place to live than Ecuador, especially for somebody looking for work in IT. And if Rand wins in 2016 he can come home.

[jbauer]

I think it is probably just because nobody thought to do it. They're really not efficient.

The narrative will now be that he's always been a communist spy.

Right because "we've" not done him any wrong. Heck at this point I'd trade the information to the Russians in exchange for freedom.

[Peace Piper]

Once KGB, ALWAYS KGB.

Once CIA ALWAYS CIA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBSJvtkPICM


GHWB: Director of Central Intelligence

In 1976, Ford brought Bush back to Washington to become Director of Central Intelligence, replacing William Colby. He served in this role for 357 days, from January 30, 1976 to January 20, 1977. The CIA had been rocked by a series of revelations, including those based on investigations by the Church Committee regarding illegal and unauthorized activities by the CIA, and Bush was credited with helping to restore the agency's morale.[29] In his capacity as DCI, Bush gave national security briefings to Jimmy Carter both as a Presidential candidate and as President-elect, and discussed the possibility of remaining in that position in a Carter administration,[30] but did not do so. He was succeeded by Deputy Director of Central Intelligence E. Henry Knoche, who served as acting Director of Central Intelligence until Stansfield Turner was confirmed

[Anti Federalist]

Nowhere to run.

Nowhere to hide.

Prison Planet.

So, fight or surrender...

[Occam's Banana]

In other words, Putin did NOT make starkly clear that Snowden was not welcome in Russia. To the contrary, he seemed to indicate Snowden was welcome to stay in Russia but with the condition that he couldn't use Russia as a base to disclose more leaks.


Assuming he's already given most of the information he had to the Guardian, I don't see it as that horrible of an outcome. Russia is probably on the whole a better place to live than Ecuador, especially for somebody looking for work in IT. And if Rand wins in 2016 he can come home.

According to Glenn Greenwald, the Guardian et al. already have everything Snowden intended to blow the whistle on.

From twitter:
Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald (https://twitter.com/ggreenwald) NOTE: Snowden's leak is basically done. It's newspapers - not Snowden - deciding what gets disclosed and in what sequence.

[Anti Federalist]

Partners in what may I ask? I think I liked it better when the US and Russia pretended to be enemies, this is too much.

I believe there aren't any Russians...

And there ain't no Yanks...

Just corporate criminals...

Playing with tanks.

[Thor]

It wasn't just Russia. He's applied in 15 countries in total according to other news stories.

Do you have that list of the 15 countries, or links to the other news stories? Curious as to which ones, and if Iceland is on that list.

[pcosmar]

I believe there aren't any Russians...

And there ain't no Yanks...

Just corporate criminals...

Playing with tanks.

Folks I've met from there are nice folks,, They talk funny, but they are pretty much just like us.
Folks is folks.

[surf]

And if Rand wins in 2016 he can come home.
that thought made me smile, and if Rand were to take this stance at some point publicly i'd probably be motivated to put forth a "Paulian" effort to win that election for him.

[angelatc]

Folks I've met from there are nice folks,, They talk funny, but they are pretty much just like us.
Folks is folks.

sure, but putin is putin. lets not forget that his spies and whistleblowers tend to end up poisoned to death

[tod evans]

sure, but putin is putin. lets not forget that his spies and whistleblowers tend to end up poisoned to death

Wonder what happens to ours?

[pcosmar]

sure, but putin is putin. lets not forget that his spies and whistleblowers tend to end up poisoned to death

And your point?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Silkwood

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson

Wiki is just for quick reference,,

[tod evans]

I was 'spectin' pictures of the Mercedes tree incident Pete...

[pcosmar]

I was 'spectin' pictures of the Mercedes tree incident Pete...

Shall we go on,,,?
I am sure there are several suspicious deaths in our lifetimes.
And the history of these "agencies" leaves much to question.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Ex-KGB Putin finding common cause with Big Brother? Shocking!YES INDEED... You know Snowden has a ton of acquired info. What he has revealed so far, is a spec on the amount of data storage he's holding, so something's amiss.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb0QLxcvowk

[69360]

Do you have that list of the 15 countries, or links to the other news stories? Curious as to which ones, and if Iceland is on that list.

It didn't say.

[anaconda]

Is he currently in Ecuador?

[torchbearer]

Nowhere to run.

Nowhere to hide.

Prison Planet.

So, fight or surrender...

how difficult would it be to bust him out of that place and get him to Ecuador embassy?
or, how about- i fly into the airport, give the guy my passport, and then claim later that it was lost- then get it replaced?

[torchbearer]

Is he currently in Ecuador?

where have you been?

[Thor]

Statement from Edward Snowden in Moscow
Monday July 1, 21:40 UTC


One week ago I left Hong Kong after it became clear that my freedom and safety were under threat for revealing the truth. My continued liberty has been owed to the efforts of friends new and old, family, and others who I have never met and probably never will. I trusted them with my life and they returned that trust with a faith in me for which I will always be thankful.

On Thursday, President Obama declared before the world that he would not permit any diplomatic "wheeling and dealing" over my case. Yet now it is being reported that after promising not to do so, the President ordered his Vice President to pressure the leaders of nations from which I have requested protection to deny my asylum petitions.

This kind of deception from a world leader is not justice, and neither is the extralegal penalty of exile. These are the old, bad tools of political aggression. Their purpose is to frighten, not me, but those who would come after me.

For decades the United States of America has been one of the strongest defenders of the human right to seek asylum. Sadly, this right, laid out and voted for by the U.S. in Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, is now being rejected by the current government of my country. The Obama administration has now adopted the strategy of using citizenship as a weapon. Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person. Without any judicial order, the administration now seeks to stop me exercising a basic right. A right that belongs to everybody. The right to seek asylum.

In the end the Obama administration is not afraid of whistleblowers like me, Bradley Manning or Thomas Drake. We are stateless, imprisoned, or powerless. No, the Obama administration is afraid of you. It is afraid of an informed, angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised — and it should be.

I am unbowed in my convictions and impressed at the efforts taken by so many.

Edward Joseph Snowden

Monday 1st July 2013

http://wikileaks.org/Statement-from-Edward-Snowden-in.html?snow

[Thor]

how difficult would it be to bust him out of that place and get him to Ecuador embassy?
or, how about- i fly into the airport, give the guy my passport, and then claim later that it was lost- then get it replaced?

Do you look anything like him, or could he look anything like you with a little disguise? :-)

[torchbearer]

Do you look anything like him, or could he look anything like you with a little disguise? :-)

i'll bring a picture of him, and a stick of glue. when i get there, i'll make it him.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Everything that has transpired over the past few weeks, there's one major exposure that has been confirmed... US Corporate Media is embedded with the Federal Government. It's the unity of one huge Propaganda Program inflicted onto the people of this once free country.

You name it, media has done it to Snowden, right to this very minute. Welcome Orwellian News 24/7

[torchbearer]

Everything that has transpired over the past few weeks, there's one major exposure that has been confirmed... US Corporate Media is embedded with the Federal Government. It's the unity of one huge Propaganda Program inflicted onto the people of this once free country.

You name it, media has done it to Snowden, right to this very minute. Welcome Orwellian News 24/7

pledge to ben swann?

[Thor]

Everything that has transpired over the past few weeks, there's one major exposure that has been confirmed... US Corporate Media is embedded with the Federal Government. It's the unity of one huge Propaganda Program inflicted onto the people of this once free country.

You name it, media has done it to Snowden, right to this very minute. Welcome Orwellian News 24/7

Well, Prism and NSA spying to the degree it is, and some of the other clandestine code names for the spying programs have been confirmed. They have been largely speculated and in some cases disclosed with minimal fanfare, but now it is wide open.... But ya, the media sluts have been exposed in a bright shiny light too....

[angelatc]

Wonder what happens to ours?

several of them have recently done interviews with the media, saying that snowden is doing the right thing.

[surf]

Everything that has transpired over the past few weeks, there's one major exposure that has been confirmed... US Corporate Media is embedded with the Federal Government. It's the unity of one huge Propaganda Program inflicted onto the people of this once free country.

You name it, media has done it to Snowden, right to this very minute. Welcome Orwellian News 24/7
an NSA document or slide that names propaganda leakers and propaganda leaked-to would be nice.

example:
Leaker - Propaganda Spreader
Clapper - David Gregory
Mueller - Barbara Star
Holder - Lindsey Graham, Peter King, John McCain
Kerry - McCain, MSNBC staff
etc,

[Anti Federalist]

In the end the Obama administration is not afraid of whistleblowers like me, Bradley Manning or Thomas Drake. We are stateless, imprisoned, or powerless. No, the Obama administration is afraid of you. It is afraid of an informed, angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised — and it should be.

I am speechless.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/760/085/applause-gif-tumblr-47_original.gif?1363040789

[trey4sports]

Honestly, at some point you just have to get somewhere safe. The more free-market the better but at the end of the day i'd go wherever they arent going to throw me in the gulag.

[surf]

In the end the Obama administration is not afraid of whistleblowers like me, Bradley Manning or Thomas Drake. We are stateless, imprisoned, or powerless. No, the Obama administration is afraid of you. It is afraid of an informed, angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised — and it should be.

I am speechless.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/760/085/applause-gif-tumblr-47_original.gif?1363040789
he's a hero.

[Anti Federalist]

he's a hero.

Yes, yes he is, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Wish there was something I could do for him.

[ClydeCoulter]

I didn't say Snowden couldn't leak more documents if he wanted to. Obviously, he can do so if he's inclined. That's obvious.
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rl4jto

[surf]

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rl4jto


Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 11h
NOTE: Snowden's leak is basically done. It's newspapers - not Snowden - deciding what gets disclosed and in what sequence.
obviously he's not contradicting himself.... big Greenwald fan too

[anaconda]

where have you been?

I thought he was in Ecuador as of a few days ago, with the Ecuadorian official offering to give the U.S. foreign aid for humanitarian rights education in the U.S. Then I saw that there was some retreat from this hard line that had something to do with Julian Assange. That's all I know.

[BenIsForRon]

There is hardly any mainstream coverage of this statement, except for bullshit like this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/07/01/some-see-julian-assanges-hand-in-new-snowden-statement/

This is fucking unbelievable.

[DGambler]

Yes, yes he is, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Wish there was something I could do for him.

So, I ventured out from the RPF's to some of my old stomping grounds on the ole net, specifically a sports forum.

What did I find? I found people calling him a traitor, calling the CIA wusses for not putting a "cap in his head" and that anyone calling him a hero was a paranoid 1984 cult follower.

Stating he broke the law and needed to be brought to justice. Anyone stating he needed a fair trial was called naive, a pussy or just generally shouted down.

:(

[Anti Federalist]

There is hardly any mainstream coverage of this statement, except for bullshit like this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/07/01/some-see-julian-assanges-hand-in-new-snowden-statement/

This is fucking unbelievable.

Government propaganda is propagandizing.

[Anti Federalist]

Freedom.

That's your fellow Americunts.

They will turn you in.

They will follow orders.

They will do it happily, with no questions asked.


So, I ventured out from the RPF's to some of my old stomping grounds on the ole net, specifically a sports forum.

What did I find? I found people calling him a traitor, calling the CIA wusses for not putting a "cap in his head" and that anyone calling him a hero was a paranoid 1984 cult follower.

Stating he broke the law and needed to be brought to justice. Anyone stating he needed a fair trial was called naive, a pussy or just generally shouted down.

:(

[DGambler]

Freedom.

That's your fellow Americunts.

They will turn you in.

They will follow orders.

They will do it happily, with no questions asked.

I quite literally do not understand people anymore.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I really want to see the president declare every other country including the people he's meant to represent the "enemy" when accusing him of episonage

[GregSarnowski]

So, I ventured out from the RPF's to some of my old stomping grounds on the ole net, specifically a sports forum.

What did I find? I found people calling him a traitor, calling the CIA wusses for not putting a "cap in his head" and that anyone calling him a hero was a paranoid 1984 cult follower.

Stating he broke the law and needed to be brought to justice. Anyone stating he needed a fair trial was called naive, a pussy or just generally shouted down.

:(

Yes it is sad and pathetic, most of the younger people seem to be with us though, maybe because they understand how technology works and know that "terrorists", to the limited extent that they actually exist, are not sending unencrypted messages through Yahoo mail detailing their supposed nefarious plans.

They reflectively believe James Clapper, who has already admitted he is a bald-faced LIAR on this topic, when he claims PRISM has stopped "dozens" of attacks. And we're the naive ones?

[AngryCanadian]

So, I ventured out from the RPF's to some of my old stomping grounds on the ole net, specifically a sports forum.

What did I find? I found people calling him a traitor, calling the CIA wusses for not putting a "cap in his head" and that anyone calling him a hero was a paranoid 1984 cult follower.

Stating he broke the law and needed to be brought to justice. Anyone stating he needed a fair trial was called naive, a pussy or just generally shouted down.

:(

What forum was that? i guess those users also believe that the rebels in Syria are cute little bunny to. :rolleyes:


What did I find? I found people calling him a traitor, calling the CIA wusses for not putting a "cap in his head" and that anyone calling him a hero was a paranoid 1984 cult follower.
Really an bunch paranoid 1984 cult followers? and just what are they?

[anaconda]

So, I ventured out from the RPF's to some of my old stomping grounds on the ole net, specifically a sports forum.

What did I find? I found people calling him a traitor, calling the CIA wusses for not putting a "cap in his head" and that anyone calling him a hero was a paranoid 1984 cult follower.

Stating he broke the law and needed to be brought to justice. Anyone stating he needed a fair trial was called naive, a pussy or just generally shouted down.

:(

On one level I am impressed with the accomplishments of the globalists. It's pretty impressive that they've got everyone cheering for their own enslavement. Alex Jones was not far from the truth when he said, recently, that parents would be cheering "U.S.A.! U.S.A.!" while the authorities were inserting their children into wood chippers.

[anaconda]

I believe that much of this knee jerk low information "patriotism" is a form of cognitive dissonance and a defense mechanism. They clamor for the acceptance of the other sheep with loud and aggressive platitudes. I believe most have at least subconsciously realized that the world is far more complicated and devious, but are not prepared to face it. But with the right phrasing I believe we can turn these people to our talking points. They just need to take ownership of some different bumper sticker slogans. Millions and millions of low information voters participate in each federal election. We need their votes. They count just as much as any other.

[Anti Federalist]

On one level I am impressed with the accomplishments of the globalists. It's pretty impressive that they've got everyone cheering for their own enslavement. Alex Jones was not far from the truth when he said, recently, that parents would be cheering "U.S.A.! U.S.A.!" while the authorities were inserting their children into wood chippers.

He is telling the absolute truth.

You people that have the means, young and unecumbered perhaps.

It's time now.

GTFO.

It really doesn't matter where at this point.

[Anti Federalist]

I quite literally do not understand people anymore.

I do...all too well I'm afraid.

[Philhelm]

GTFO.

Get The Fascist Orwellians?

[DGambler]

I believe that much of this knee jerk low information "patriotism" is a form of cognitive dissonance and a defense mechanism. They clamor for the acceptance of the other sheep with loud and aggressive platitudes. I believe most have at least subconsciously realized that the world is far more complicated and devious, but are not prepared to face it. But with the right phrasing I believe we can turn these people to our talking points. They just need to take ownership of some different bumper sticker slogans. Millions and millions of low information voters participate in each federal election. We need their votes. They count just as much as any other.

The bold part above, they were using THAT argument for the fact that Snowden was a traitor and that his motives were self-aggrandizing. How could he possibly do something like this without a handler? That those of us calling him a hero were naive in our thinking and didn't understand how complicated the world actually was. And then called for hi to be killed, again.


I do...all too well I'm afraid.


Do tell... What is it in the human psyche that allows people to think this way and not see the truth? I've always been one with a rebellious mind and insatiable curiosity, is it upbringing? If it is, how do you turn the tide of thinking that is ingrained for 20+ years?

I do we'll when I'm one on one with people and have converted individuals when given the chance to engage in meaningful dialogue, but that type of savagery still baffles me.

[opal]

I believe there aren't any Russians...

And there ain't no Yanks...

Just corporate criminals...

Playing with tanks.

poet and didn't know it.. very good

I hope Ed finds a safe place to land soon.. with no strings attached, a new identity, and a good plastics guy or gal to get him a fresh start. He should be rewarded... not hunted.

I think this 4th of July.. I am going to spend home.. with the husband.. cleaning the various barrels and firing mechanisms we have around.

[Anti Federalist]

Do tell... What is it in the human psyche that allows people to think this way and not see the truth? I've always been one with a rebellious mind and insatiable curiosity, is it upbringing? If it is, how do you turn the tide of thinking that is ingrained for 20+ years?

Put very simply, the essence of what mankind desires is:

To be fed.

To be entertained.

To exercise petty power and control over their fellow man.

Satisfy those desires and you can subjugate a people for centuries, you can erect an Empire that will last a millenia.


I do we'll when I'm one on one with people and have converted individuals when given the chance to engage in meaningful dialogue, but that type of savagery still baffles me.

A person is smart.

People are stupid.

Groupthink and a hive mentality reduces all human experience to the lowest common denominator, fear.

Fear of losing one or all of the items listed above.

[Anti Federalist]

poet and didn't know it.. very good

I hope Ed finds a safe place to land soon.. with no strings attached, a new identity, and a good plastics guy or gal to get him a fresh start. He should be rewarded... not hunted.

I think this 4th of July.. I am going to spend home.. with the husband.. cleaning the various barrels and firing mechanisms we have around.

I wish I could take credit.

But that lyric is thirty years old, this month.

"It's the Song of Assassins...

Ringing in our ears...

We got terrorist thinking...

Playing on fears."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kX8lqXAONg

[limequat]

Put very simply, the essence of what mankind desires is:

To be fed.

To be entertained.

To exercise petty power and control over their fellow man.

Satisfy those desires and you can subjugate a people for centuries, you can erect an Empire that will last a millenia.



A person is smart.

People are stupid.

Groupthink and a hive mentality reduces all human experience to the lowest common denominator, fear.

Fear of losing one or all of the items listed above.


I'm developing a hypothesis in my head about this...

Humans are social animals. Alone, we are quite powerless. Not very fast, not very strong. No natural armor, no fangs, no claws. Our power comes from two sometimes opposing factions: intellect and numbers. A human can't kill a bear, but a group of humans can design and build a gun that will.

So it makes sense that speaking in terms of evolution, that the humans that perform best in a group will be more likely to fight off predators, competitors and hunt for food. Groupthink, perhaps, is an evolutionary trait that is earned from the fittest tribe.

I can imagine a tribal arms race, maybe in the time of the Neanderthals. Maybe one tribe fights with rocks. Then another puts rocks on sticks to make clubs. Maybe another fashions spears. The largest, most powerful tribe earns the right to reproduce and eat the best food. And those genes are passed on to the next generation.

Fast forward a few hundred thousand years and we have this need to follow the heard deeply engrained. It's not that boobus is dumb. It's a survival mechanism to root for the home team.

[torchbearer]

Fast forward a few hundred thousand years and we have this need to follow the heard deeply engrained. It's not that boobus is dumb. It's a survival mechanism to root for the home team.
add xenophobia to the left over natural survival instincts we have.. and then you understand what immigration fear is about.

[Thor]

I wish I could take credit.

But that lyric is thirty years old, this month.

"It's the Song of Assassins...

Ringing in our ears...

We got terrorist thinking...

Playing on fears."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kX8lqXAONg

Good song... 30 years. Wow.

[DGambler]

Put very simply, the essence of what mankind desires is:

To be fed.

To be entertained.

To exercise petty power and control over their fellow man.

Satisfy those desires and you can subjugate a people for centuries, you can erect an Empire that will last a millenia.



A person is smart.

People are stupid.

Groupthink and a hive mentality reduces all human experience to the lowest common denominator, fear.

Fear of losing one or all of the items listed above.

So, how do we use those traits to further the cause of liberty?

What can liberty do to feed people?

What can liberty do to entertain people?

What can liberty do that replaces the desire to exercise petty power over our fellow man?

How do we use Groupthink in our favor?

I'm not good at groups, I hate them and am much better one-on-one, so I have a problem in trying to strategize on this topic.

[Thor]

So, how do we use those traits to further the cause of liberty?

What can liberty do to feed people?

What can liberty do to entertain people?

What can liberty do that replaces the desire to exercise petty power over our fellow man?

How do we use Groupthink in our favor?

I'm not good at groups, I hate them and am much better one-on-one, so I have a problem in trying to strategize on this topic.

Radio waves.... of course it will be an illegal broadcast...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2q1gxgXSang#t=201s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2q1gxgXSang#t=201s -- Start @ 3:20

[Philhelm]

So, how do we use those traits to further the cause of liberty?

What can liberty do to feed people?

What can liberty do to entertain people?

What can liberty do that replaces the desire to exercise petty power over our fellow man?

How do we use Groupthink in our favor?

I'm not good at groups, I hate them and am much better one-on-one, so I have a problem in trying to strategize on this topic.

We need assault sticks with a 30-rock capacity magazine so that we earn the right to the statists' food and women.

[surf]

I wish I could take credit.

But that lyric is thirty years old, this month.

"It's the Song of Assassins...

Ringing in our ears...

We got terrorist thinking...

Playing on fears."


wow. I forgot about that song. i'm certain it's on a cassette somewhere in the attic:cool:

and i'm certain it's on a mixed tape.... i'm getting old.

[Anti Federalist]

I can see this.

And I can also see how one individual would be thrown out of the group and hunted down for discovering or inventing a new and radical concept.

Like fire.


I'm developing a hypothesis in my head about this...

Humans are social animals. Alone, we are quite powerless. Not very fast, not very strong. No natural armor, no fangs, no claws. Our power comes from two sometimes opposing factions: intellect and numbers. A human can't kill a bear, but a group of humans can design and build a gun that will.

So it makes sense that speaking in terms of evolution, that the humans that perform best in a group will be more likely to fight off predators, competitors and hunt for food. Groupthink, perhaps, is an evolutionary trait that is earned from the fittest tribe.

I can imagine a tribal arms race, maybe in the time of the Neanderthals. Maybe one tribe fights with rocks. Then another puts rocks on sticks to make clubs. Maybe another fashions spears. The largest, most powerful tribe earns the right to reproduce and eat the best food. And those genes are passed on to the next generation.

Fast forward a few hundred thousand years and we have this need to follow the heard deeply engrained. It's not that boobus is dumb. It's a survival mechanism to root for the home team.