If You Like The Surveillance State, You’ll Love E-Verify

[donnay]

If You Like The Surveillance State, You’ll Love E-Verify

By Ron Paul

From massive NSA spying, to IRS targeting of the administration’s political opponents, to collection and sharing of our health care information as part of Obamacare, it seems every day we learn of another assault on our privacy. Sadly, this week the Senate took another significant, if little-noticed, step toward creating an authoritarian surveillance state. Buried in the immigration bill is a national identification system called mandatory E-Verify.

The Senate did not spend much time discussing E-Verify, and what little discussion took place was mostly bipartisan praise for its effectiveness as a tool for preventing illegal immigrants from obtaining employment. It is a tragedy that mandatory E-Verify is not receiving more attention, as it will impact nearly every American’s privacy and liberty.

The mandatory E-Verify system requires Americans to carry a “tamper-proof” social security card. Before they can legally begin a job, American citizens will have to show the card to their prospective employer, who will then have to verify their identity and eligibility to hold a job in the US by running the information through the newly-created federal E-Verify database. The database will contain photographs taken from passport files and state driver’s licenses. The law gives federal bureaucrats broad discretion in adding other “biometric” identifiers to the database. It also gives the bureaucracy broad authority to determine what features the “tamper proof” card should contain.

Regardless of one’s views on immigration, the idea that we should have to ask permission from the federal government before taking a job ought to be offensive to all Americans. Under this system, many Americans will be denied the opportunity for work. The E-Verify database will falsely identify thousands as “ineligible,” forcing many to lose job opportunities while challenging government computer inaccuracies. E-Verify will also impose additional compliance costs on American businesses, at a time when they are struggling with Obamacare implementation and other regulations.

According to David Bier of Competitive Enterprise Institute, there is nothing stopping the use of E-Verify for purposes unrelated to work verification, and these expanded uses could be authorized by agency rule-making or executive order. So it is not inconceivable that, should this bill pass, the day may come when you are not be able to board an airplane or exercise your second amendment rights without being run through the E-Verify database. It is not outside the realm of possibility that the personal health care information that will soon be collected by the IRS and shared with other federal agencies as part of Obamacare will also be linked to the E-Verify system.

Those who dismiss these concerns as paranoid should consider that the same charges were leveled at those who warned that the PATRIOT Act could lead to the government collecting our phone records and spying on our Internet usage. Just as the PATRIOT Act was only supposed to be used against terrorists but is now used to bypass constitutional protections in matters having nothing to do with terrorism or national security, the national ID/mandatory E-Verify database will not only be used to prevent illegal immigrants from gaining employment. Instead, it will eventually be used as another tool to monitor and control the American people.

The recent revelations of the extent of National Security Agency (NSA) spying on Americans, plus recent stories of IRS targeting Tea Party and similar groups for special scrutiny, demonstrates the dangers of trusting government with this type of power. Creation of a federal database with photos and possibly other “biometric” information about American citizens is a great leap forward for the surveillance state. All Americans who still care about limited government and individual liberty should strongly oppose E-Verify.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

all the bureaucracy surrounding employment makes me not want to be employed. It's already bad enough having blood on your hands by a portion of your income going directly to terrorizing and killing people DOMESTIC and ABROAD.

[heavenlyboy34]

I assure you, not a fuck will be given by Boobus. He's been clamoring for e-verify laws since being agitated and propagandized WRT illegal aliens the past decade or so.

[KCIndy]

I assure you, not a fuck will be given by Boobus. He's been clamoring for e-verify laws since being agitated and propagandized WRT illegal aliens the past decade or so.


Sadly, you are 100%, dead-on correct. :(

[GovBotDotNet]

When a system is in place that requires the consent of the people, that consent must be measured. Traditionally this involves popular voting for measures, or popular voting for representatives who will then vote on measures. Such a system places incentive on fraud. Protecting the system from that fraud may well be valid, if the system itself is valid.

What makes a system valid?

[DamianTV]

So you dont like your current job, and apply for a new one. This new employer takes your info and submits it to see if you are allowed to work or not. Problem is, guess who else has access to that info? Everyone, including your current employer. So applying for a better job can cost you your current job. Sounds like a scheme McDonalds cooked up to keep employees from going over to In and Out.

If you have nothing to hide, that what do you care if they monitor you?

Another perfect case. Applying for another job is NOT illegal. It is NOT unlawful. It isnt even immoral. The difference beween RIGHT and WRONG is SUBJECTIVE. And when you apply for that new job, guess what, your current employer is going to view that as being very very fucking WRONG.

Want to know what I have to hide? THAT is exactly what I have to hide. And if you belive anything in your life to have value, so should you.

[donnay]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DpFM8pEBqw

[kahless]

US citizen here, lived here all my life. I fail E-verify when I or an employer uses it. My last employer told me I failed but I told them to try it again, they reluctantly did and I passed.

The questions asked are too damn personnel for the employer to answer. My past living arrangements are not anyone's business. It is infuriating.

[DamianTV]

I ran into my first Drivers License Scanner for Alcohol yesterday. Rest assured, I wont be shopping there ever again.

[kahless]

I ran into my first Drivers License Scanner for Alcohol yesterday. Rest assured, I wont be shopping there ever again.

I had that happen for the first time when entering a bar recently. I normally would just turn around and leave but was with friends. The staff and patrons acted shocked that I asked questions about it when I got inside (like why would anyone care). I was told they were using to keep track of capacity which is bs.

I am assuming they have my address and expect to be spammed.

[kcchiefs6465]

I ran into my first Drivers License Scanner for Alcohol yesterday. Rest assured, I wont be shopping there ever again.
Indeed. And it is already Federal. My ID sometimes works flawlessly and sometimes it beeps as invalid. (when they slide it) It has happened to me the same way in other states with an out of state ID. (sometimes it works flawlessly and sometimes it beeps as invalid) I always found that weird but putting two and two together there is no doubt that they have a national ID code implemented into the barcode with states sharing information. Otherwise a card issued in one state, wouldn't be verifiable by sliding in another state. I have no doubt they also have a national database.

A response to my concern... "You don't have to get an ID." (it isn't mandatory) GTFOH.

[kcchiefs6465]

I had that happen for the first time when entering a bar recently. I normally would just turn around and leave but was with friends. The staff and patrons acted shocked that I asked questions about it when I got inside (like why would anyone care). I was told they were using to keep track of capacity which is bs.

I am assuming they have my address and expect to be spammed.
Supposedly it is to assure that the ID/License is valid. (not expired or fake) They probably sell the information. (much like information such as only your ZIP code is marketable) I'd like to see some investigative journalism done on this. Is our data being stored and what is the purpose for scanning when one can simply look at the age and expiration date? The stores here always scan. They'll hold the line and ask that I remove my ID from my wallet. If I refuse to scan they refuse to sell. And when it randomly beeps I am refused service. All in all goddamn annoying. I'll be even more annoyed when I find out there is "anonymous" information stored of my comings and goings linked to my ID.

[jmdrake]

You won't be able to sell your labor (get a job) or buy labor (hire someone) without a federally approved ID card that gets scanned with each such transaction. What does that sound like?

Revelation 13:16-17

King James Version (KJV)

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

[ZENemy]

"Before we sell you this 12 pack, we scanned your ID and noticed yesterday that you said "power to the people" on your facebook account....we cannot sell you alcohol at this time, please report to Saturday morning anger for government management and try again next week"

[Zippyjuan]

I thought we needed some system to identify illegal aliens so we can get rid of them? Wait- that imposes on liberty? Which is the more important issue to you- aliens or freedom? (the number of illegal aliens in the country is down and last year there was zero net immigration from Mexico to the US).

[Carlybee]

Going Gattican

[jllundqu]

We get the government we deserve... people in this country suck

[heavenlyboy34]

We get the government the elites want... statists in this country suck
FIFY. :)

[heavenlyboy34]

I ran into my first Drivers License Scanner for Alcohol yesterday. Rest assured, I wont be shopping there ever again.
da fuq? :eek: Is it just for young looking people who might be using fake IDs? If it's for everyone, I too would never go back to such a place. :P

[Zippyjuan]

I checked the ID for a girl once. She turned to her friend, "Man, I have been 21 for a YEAR now and they STILL want my ID!"

[cjm]

I checked the ID for a girl once. She turned to her friend, "Man, I have been 21 for a YEAR now and they STILL want my ID!"

Give her five years and she'll be flattered that she's carded.

[Anti Federalist]

I had that happen for the first time when entering a bar recently. I normally would just turn around and leave but was with friends. The staff and patrons acted shocked that I asked questions about it when I got inside (like why would anyone care). I was told they were using to keep track of capacity which is bs.

I am assuming they have my address and expect to be spammed.

Your bill will be checked against your Obamacare records in The Matrix.

If it is found you have been treated for any disease related to consumption of alcohol, you will be assessed the proper fines.

Do it again and you will have felony charges drawn up against you, for violation of the Affordable Care Act.

[Anti Federalist]

I thought we needed some system to identify illegal aliens so we can get rid of them? Wait- that imposes on liberty? Which is the more important issue to you- aliens or freedom? (the number of illegal aliens in the country is down and last year there was zero net immigration from Mexico to the US).

Zip's usually contrary, but I agree with him.

Drones, DMZs, and E-Verify...the "solution" is worse than the problem.

[kahless]

My concern is next time I will get some typical dopey Human Resources bitch that once it fails she will not bother to run it again without asking allot of personal questions that I do not want to answer or whatever the ordeal will be to get it fixed within 8 days.

Of course I expect the HR person to provide the typical fellow American response that will be a grin with some snarky comment about why it is such a big deal giving me the personal details e-verify is asking for. I will have to hold my tongue. Either way I will probably be perceived as a problem starting a new job.

[Anti Federalist]

My concern is next time I will get some typical dopey Human Resources bitch that once it fails she will not bother to run it again without asking allot of personal questions that I do not want to answer or whatever the ordeal will be to get it fixed within 8 days.

Of course I expect the HR person to provide the typical fellow American response that will be a grin with some snarky comment about why it is such a big deal giving me the personal details e-verify is asking for. I will have to hold my tongue. Either way I will probably be perceived as a problem starting a new job.

You are the problem, Mundane.

Comply or else.

[amy31416]

da fuq? :eek: Is it just for young looking people who might be using fake IDs? If it's for everyone, I too would never go back to such a place. :P

Some people/stores card across the board, regardless of how old/young a person looks--it's generally older cashiers who seem to look down on alcohol consumption so far as I can tell. I wouldn't be surprised if some stores have a policy to scan everyone's license, but I haven't run into that yet.

[tod evans]

I haven't been carded in well over 20 years...

Damn it!

[amy31416]

Your bill will be checked against your Obamacare records in The Matrix.

If it is found you have been treated for any disease related to consumption of alcohol, you will be assessed the proper fines.

Do it again and you will have felony charges drawn up against you, for violation of the Affordable Care Act.

Seems to me that they're going to track your every purchase, whether that be by impoverishing you to the point you have to use food "stamps," requiring ID or even shopper's cards. This database they're building will not leave out any detail they can possibly get.

[pcosmar]

Some people/stores card across the board, regardless of how old/young a person looks--it's generally older cashiers who seem to look down on alcohol consumption so far as I can tell. I wouldn't be surprised if some stores have a policy to scan everyone's license, but I haven't run into that yet.
Was,,
http://danmurphys.com.au/media/DM/Media/static/ID25Small.jpg
Now is,,
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_j0qeBAJCW9U/S0TnqvXncnI/AAAAAAAABNs/yaHji2oiUT8/s320/40.jpg

[tod evans]

Thanks Pete......I feel worse now.:o

[amy31416]

Thanks Pete......I feel worse now.:o

Don't worry tod, in many places it's if you look 30 or under. Does that help?

[Anti Federalist]

Seems to me that they're going to track your every purchase, whether that be by impoverishing you to the point you have to use food "stamps," requiring ID or even shopper's cards. This database they're building will not leave out any detail they can possibly get.

Yes, this is what is coming.

Every purchase, regardless of method of payment, will be databased.

That database will cross reference to you, personally, and your purchases will be denied or approved based on need and suitability.

Attempts by prohibited persons to purchase prohibited items will result in arrest.

Sounds like freedom to me.

ETA - Forgot to mention, "sin taxes" will be applied at point of sale as well, once your electronic dangan is accessed.

These will be based on a sliding scale of semi approved and discouraged items.

[heavenlyboy34]

Seems to me that they're going to track your every purchase, whether that be by impoverishing you to the point you have to use food "stamps," requiring ID or even shopper's cards. This database they're building will not leave out any detail they can possibly get.

Yes, this is what is coming.

Every purchase, regardless of method of payment, will be databased.

That database will cross reference to you, personally, and your purchases will be denied or approved based on need and suitability.

Attempts by prohibited persons to purchase prohibited items will result in arrest.

Sounds like freedom to me.
Hey, citizens, it's a free country. :rolleyes: Love it or leave it. ;)

[tod evans]

Don't worry tod, in many places it's if you look 30 or under. Does that help?

Not a bit, I was whining about the under "40" sign...:o

[Anti Federalist]

Hey, citizens, it's a free country. :rolleyes: Love it or leave it. ;)

Ameriʞa.

Love it, or else...

[heavenlyboy34]

Ameriʞa.

Love it, or else...
Not loving Big Brother and Big Sister is a type of Thoughtcrime, I'm told. To Room 101 with you, Citizen.

[pcosmar]

Not a bit, I was whining about the under "40" sign...:o

Oh,, it will be everyone.. That was just the change in a few years.


Yes, this is what is coming.

Every purchase, regardless of method of payment, will be databased.

That database will cross reference to you, personally, and your purchases will be denied or approved based on need and suitability.

Attempts by prohibited persons to purchase prohibited items will result in arrest.

Sounds like freedom to me.

ETA - Forgot to mention, "sin taxes" will be applied at point of sale as well, once your electronic dangan is accessed.

These will be based on a sliding scale of semi approved and discouraged items.

that no man be able to buy, nor sell without the mark,,, :(

[amy31416]

Yes, this is what is coming.

Every purchase, regardless of method of payment, will be databased.

That database will cross reference to you, personally, and your purchases will be denied or approved based on need and suitability.

Attempts by prohibited persons to purchase prohibited items will result in arrest.

Sounds like freedom to me.

ETA - Forgot to mention, "sin taxes" will be applied at point of sale as well, once your electronic dangan is accessed.

These will be based on a sliding scale of semi approved and discouraged items.

I'm sure that some here wouldn't approve, but we do most of our shopping at Aldi--no coupons, no shopper's card, no food stamps. I admittedly miss my former favorite market back in PA, which was local, crazy, very ethnic and remarkably priced--no coupons or shopper's cards there either. Go late on a Saturday (they were closed Sundays), and get everything majorly marked-down. The cashiers memorized the prices of everything and rattled off the prices as they were rung up.

The woman who owns that place is a total bitch, but runs the place like the tightest ship you can imagine.

[amy31416]

Yes, this is what is coming.

Every purchase, regardless of method of payment, will be databased.

That database will cross reference to you, personally, and your purchases will be denied or approved based on need and suitability.

Attempts by prohibited persons to purchase prohibited items will result in arrest.

Sounds like freedom to me.

ETA - Forgot to mention, "sin taxes" will be applied at point of sale as well, once your electronic dangan is accessed.

These will be based on a sliding scale of semi approved and discouraged items.

I'm sure that some here wouldn't approve, but we do most of our shopping at Aldi--no coupons, no shopper's card, no food stamps. I admittedly miss my former favorite market back in PA, which was local, crazy, very ethnic and remarkably priced--no coupons or shopper's cards there either. Go late on a Saturday (they were closed Sundays), and get everything majorly marked-down. The cashiers memorized the prices of everything and rattled off the prices as they were rung up.

The woman who owns that place is a total bitch, but runs the place like the tightest ship you can imagine.

[kcchiefs6465]

My thing is not with being carded, though the legal age probably should be at when you can take a bullet for "freedom", and they only card me to piss me off, but that they are required to scan your ID. Simply looking at it will not do.

I wonder if there is a database of "anonymous" transactions linked to my ID and I wonder where and how long that data is stored. I wonder if some people are prohibited. If they are on probation or parole and not allowed to consume alcohol, if there is an alert system.

I have a lot of questions I'd like to know the answer to. The first probably being why does my ID sometimes scan fine and other times beep and I'm refused sale. It's annoying.

[kahless]

...
I have a lot of questions I'd like to know the answer to. The first probably being why does my ID sometimes scan fine and other times beep and I'm refused sale. It's annoying.

You consumed over the government allowed amount of alcohol for the week. The restriction helps drive down alcohol related medical costs in the US and is in your best medical interest. I should not have to pay higher insurance rates and medical treatment for people that go above the consumption restriction.

So this is not something you should be upset about unless you are one of those loser Tea Party people.

[MelissaWV]

I assure you, not a fuck will be given by Boobus. He's been clamoring for e-verify laws since being agitated and propagandized WRT illegal aliens the past decade or so.

Why imply that this place is any better? e-verify has been defended by several forum members, along with laws where a cop has the right to arrest you and detain you for failure to convince them that you're not an illegal, on the spot, leaving you under suspicion of committing a crime (and being here illegally is a crime, so there you go... chase your tail).

[jmdrake]

I thought we needed some system to identify illegal aliens so we can get rid of them? Wait- that imposes on liberty? Which is the more important issue to you- aliens or freedom? (the number of illegal aliens in the country is down and last year there was zero net immigration from Mexico to the US).

I'll take freedom for $1,000 please. I've been on the fence (no pun intended) on immigration for years. On the one hand, the fact that the border is not secure is proof positive that the government has never been serious about the so called "war on terror." (All these precautions so that Al Queada can't board a plane, but nothing to stop them from sneaking themselves and/or WMDs across the border?) On the other hand, expending the power of the federal government to fight the "problem" is asinine.

[heavenlyboy34]

Why imply that this place is any better? e-verify has been defended by several forum members, along with laws where a cop has the right to arrest you and detain you for failure to convince them that you're not an illegal, on the spot, leaving you under suspicion of committing a crime (and being here illegally is a crime, so there you go... chase your tail).
RPFers said that? :eek: I am disappoint. :(

[Zippyjuan]

I'll take freedom for $1,000 please. I've been on the fence (no pun intended) on immigration for years. On the one hand, the fact that the border is not secure is proof positive that the government has never been serious about the so called "war on terror." (All these precautions so that Al Queada can't board a plane, but nothing to stop them from sneaking themselves and/or WMDs across the border?) On the other hand, expending the power of the federal government to fight the "problem" is asinine.

We spend twice now on border security than we did when Obama took office and now they want to double it again in the immgration bill. Even if you have a 100% secure border (impossible), 45% of those in the country illegally entered it legally but stayed longer than they were allowed to. Tighter border security actually tends to INCREASE those who stay in the country- before, people would come to the US, work for a couple years to get some money again and go home to their families a while. Now since it is harder to go back and forth when they do come, the tend to stay.

If you build a higher or longer fence, it just encourages finding new ways around it. They dig tunnels under it. They have built ramps big enough to drive a semi over the top. They have chopped holes in it. They have used launchers to toss contraband over it. They use or even steal boats to sail around it. Then there is the practically vacant Canadian border- with the focus on the Mexican one. We end up spending more tax dollars and don't really get much improvement for them.

[pcosmar]

We spend twice now on border security than we did when Obama

Spending more money is irrelevant. Wasting more money is more accurate.

more gizmos,, more cops,, more propaganda,, all cost money..
And none of it addresses the problem.

This really has nothing to do with immigration,,or amnesty,, or security. Those are smoke. (Obfuscation)

This is all about building a Police State,, and total control of the population.

[donnay]

We spend twice now on border security than we did when Obama took office and now they want to double it again in the immgration bill. Even if you have a 100% secure border (impossible), 45% of those in the country illegally entered it legally but stayed longer than they were allowed to. Tighter border security actually tends to INCREASE those who stay in the country- before, people would come to the US, work for a couple years to get some money again and go home to their families a while. Now since it is harder to go back and forth when they do come, the tend to stay.

If you build a higher or longer fence, it just encourages finding new ways around it. They dig tunnels under it. They have built ramps big enough to drive a semi over the top. They have chopped holes in it. They have used launchers to toss contraband over it. They use or even steal boats to sail around it. Then there is the practically vacant Canadian border- with the focus on the Mexican one. We end up spending more tax dollars and don't really get much improvement for them.


WE spent FAR more on unconstitutional wars! Bring our troops home and let the patrol the borders. This hijacked government doesn't want to stop this, because they want to blow out the US economy. They can't do it without foreigners being able to come in and get everything for free off the backs of all of us.

[heavenlyboy34]

WE spent FAR more on unconstitutional wars! Bring our troops home and let the patrol the borders. This hijacked government doesn't want to stop this, because they want to blow out the US economy. They can't do it without foreigners being able to come in and get everything for free off the backs of all of us.
Militarized borders doesn't sound so good to me. Unless you mean the Guardsmen-less bad but not ideal.

[Philhelm]

Even if you have a 100% secure border (impossible), 45% of those in the country illegally entered it legally but stayed longer than they were allowed to.

I don't know about the figure of 45%, but it's certainly true that a large portion of illegal immigrants within the U.S. have unlawful presence due to visa overstay, and aren't just border-hoppers.

[jmdrake]

Like I said. The main real justification for securing the border (if there is one) is if you believe we really face an international terror threat with no significant ties to any elements within our own government. In other words, I'd rather Al Qaeda be stuck on one side or the other rather than being able to go back and forth. (The oldest Boston bomber shouldn't have been allowed to go back and forth to Chechnya for example).

As for getting contraband in, thanks to NAFTA all you have to do is own a Mexican trucking company. Some are allowed to do their own inspections and they are allowed to cross the border without being checked at all. The GWOT and GWOD (global war on drugs) are both total jokes.


We spend twice now on border security than we did when Obama took office and now they want to double it again in the immgration bill. Even if you have a 100% secure border (impossible), 45% of those in the country illegally entered it legally but stayed longer than they were allowed to. Tighter border security actually tends to INCREASE those who stay in the country- before, people would come to the US, work for a couple years to get some money again and go home to their families a while. Now since it is harder to go back and forth when they do come, the tend to stay.

If you build a higher or longer fence, it just encourages finding new ways around it. They dig tunnels under it. They have built ramps big enough to drive a semi over the top. They have chopped holes in it. They have used launchers to toss contraband over it. They use or even steal boats to sail around it. Then there is the practically vacant Canadian border- with the focus on the Mexican one. We end up spending more tax dollars and don't really get much improvement for them.

[phill4paul]

You won't be able to sell your labor (get a job) or buy labor (hire someone) without a federally approved ID card that gets scanned with each such transaction.

I do it all the time. Call it "cash is king." Call it "free market." It ends when everyone else besides myself says...... I. Will. Not. Comply.

[Zippyjuan]

WE spent FAR more on unconstitutional wars! Bring our troops home and let the patrol the borders. This hijacked government doesn't want to stop this, because they want to blow out the US economy. They can't do it without foreigners being able to come in and get everything for free off the backs of all of us.

Most come for jobs- not freebies. Consider that somebody is too lazy to want to do anything and wants to live off somebody else. Why would they be ambitious enough to travel hundreds or even thousands of miles on a risky journey. If you are not abitious enough to work, you won't be ambitious enough to take that trek.

As for the freebies- they are not elgible for Federal programs like Social Security or Medicare/ Medicaid. Things like welfare, drivers licenses and school are state programs.

[Zippyjuan]

Like I said. The main real justification for securing the border (if there is one) is if you believe we really face an international terror threat with no significant ties to any elements within our own government. In other words, I'd rather Al Qaeda be stuck on one side or the other rather than being able to go back and forth. (The oldest Boston bomber shouldn't have been allowed to go back and forth to Chechnya for example).

As for getting contraband in, thanks to NAFTA all you have to do is own a Mexican trucking company. Some are allowed to do their own inspections and they are allowed to cross the border without being checked at all. The GWOT and GWOD (global war on drugs) are both total jokes.

They are subject to the same border crossing inspections that all trucks entering the US are subject to.