Rand is a masterful politician

[Warlord]

I really do think Rand is a masterful politician. It's quite rare you see someone this skilled in politics but he's been preparing for this all his life and is incredibly smart. He knows what he wants and is principled but will always frame it in a way that makes it seem he's being reasonable and the opposite side isn't.

Take immigration. Whatever Rand says publicly I dont believe he's that thrilled with the idea of amnesty or being "soft" on illegal immigrants. This is a guy who campaigned against birthright citizenship in Kentucky when he didn't really need to. Ending birthright citizenship is a pipe dream but that shows you he's really quite hard on illegal immigrants.

His big concession seems to be "we will find a place for you if you want to work" in other words he's endorsing them getting citizenship like anyone else after 15 years? Which is not unreasonable. If you've lived and worked in a country for 15 years should you get a chance to obtain citizenship? Rand keeps the cost down by also barring them from welfare so anyone who takes advantage of this has to be in almost continuous employment for 15 years. These immigrants will be higher quality than say barely literate ones, wouldn't they? So they wouldn't be lost to the GOP. They'd be cognizant of the taxes they pay, probably on a decent wage and making a decent lives for themselves and their family. They're not necessarily going to demand higher taxes and welfare. Maybe they'd attend a citizenship class and learn about the US constitution. Ron is flat out against giving any 'amnesty' and is happy to keep the status quo I think,

However during the recent debate Rand is careful to point out he's all for reform. He's all for doing something but it's just got to be on his terms. My way or the highway and he's prepared to vote against the pork laden, horrific bill and work behind the scenes to kill it in the House with a rare intensity. Huelskamp said he, Rand and Lee huddled with other House members to figure out a way to kill it in his NewsMax interview the other day.

So why is Rand so masterful? Because he's always careful to spell out the terms of what he wants before he allows anything to happen and he has a way of making it sounding reasonable. Candy was on to him (and opponents of amnesty) although she was being cynical when in the video below she quoted the WSJ editorial "some people think that opponents are against anything happening and will use border security as an excuse..." Rand shot back: "Uhh.. well that wouldn't be me because I'm all for reform..." in a kind of "huh? how could you accuse me of that?" tone. He seemed offended! How dare you Candy! That was feigned and from watching politicians I can tell you Rand was being a little defensive there and felt the need to plead innocence. Sure you're for reform Rand :D

Skip to 2:50:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qaf2wFfrMnQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qaf2wFfrMnQ


Alex Jones also picked up on this sort of public cat and mouse game Rand's been playing on immigration:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-YRgBPY52o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-YRgBPY52o

"He's for reform so he has credibility to kill it"

What makes Rand so good at this is he's principled and somewhat predictable. He'll stick to his guns and he'll only agree to reforms on his terms. In relation to immigration those reforms would likely lead to higher quality immigrants who if they became citizens wouldn't necessarily be locked into the Dem Party and be welfare recipients for life. That's his calculated concession. You either agree to it or he won't endorse the reform.

This is brilliant and we can only hope he sticks to his guns on other issues rather than compromises. Especially on things like defense spending which he said the other day in SC that he'd like to apply the sequester to the military budget but in his budget he bragged he spent more on the military no doubt to secure more votes. If he's president he will need to compromise more and not in a good way to get his budget passed depending on the make up of Congress who will fight like hell to protect defense and especially the $80 billion/year National Security state. The question is can Rand stand up to them?

[talkingpointes]

Warlord are you kidding. This is the writing of a shill -- this is EXACTLY what I would expect.

[FSP-Rebel]

That's the way I see it too for the most part.

[jtstellar]

Warlord are you kidding. This is the writing of a shill -- this is EXACTLY what I would expect.

shilling for rand isn't a compliment?

[spladle]

Warlord are you kidding. This is the writing of a shill -- this is EXACTLY what I would expect.

You say this as if it's a bad thing. What do you have against people shilling for RP?

[JCDenton0451]

When a conservative politician like Rand Paul comes out in favour of "immigration reform", it doesn't empower him, it empowers the proponents of "immigration reform". It empowers Chuck Schumer, Lindsey Graham, Bill Kristol etc. I mean Lindsey Graham supported "immigration reform" LONG before it was cool. Doesn't this make him some kind of a visionary?

[Warlord]

When a conservative politician like Rand Paul comes out in favour of "immigration reform", it doesn't empower him, it empowers the proponents of "immigration reform". It empowers Chuck Schumer, Lindsey Graham, Bill Kristol etc. I mean Lindsey Graham supported "immigration reform" LONG before it was cool. Doesn't this make him some kind of a visionary?

Graham would support immigration refom even if it meant mass funding for Gosnell like clinics all over the US> he has no principles and will accept anything. Rand is the opposite. Unless the reform meets certain conditions he does not support it. He has demonstrated he is willing to back it up with votes against it and moves behind the scenes to kill the bill

[spladle]

When a conservative politician like Rand Paul comes out in favour of "immigration reform", it doesn't empower him, it empowers the proponents of "immigration reform".

It does both. Immigration reform is popular with powerful and important people. Coming out in favor of it allows one to garner the support of those powerful and important people. This is important for politicians who hope to hold a more powerful and important position than they presently do.


It empowers Chuck Schumer, Lindsey Graham, Bill Kristol etc. I mean Lindsey Graham supported "immigration reform" LONG before it was cool. Doesn't this make him some kind of a visionary?

No, but it does make him the recipient of ad money from Mark Zuckerberg, which is way better than being a visionary. Ron Paul was a visionary, and look where that got him (in the realm of electoral politics).

[talkingpointes]

shilling for rand isn't a compliment?

No it isn't. Rand shouldn't have to pay people for their opinions. Sorry that is pathetic.

[Warlord]

No it isn't. Rand shouldn't have to pay people for their opinions. Sorry that is pathetic.

This is why im ignoring you: Rand does not pay the Warlord although he does have a declared interest insofar that he has 3 figure bets on him with European (and Pakistani) bookmakers to win mid 4 figures if he wins. He hopes to increase the size of these positions over the next 12 months and RAPE the bookmakers for as much as possible. I wish you'd leave me alone :rolleyes:

[talkingpointes]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shill?s=t

2.
a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.

[talkingpointes]

This is why im ignoring you: Rand does not pay the Warlord although he does have a declared interest insofar that he has 3 figure bets on him with European (and Pakistani) bookmakers to win mid 4 figures if he wins. He hopes to increase the size of these positions over the next 12 months and RAPE the bookmakers for as much as possible. I wish you'd leave me alone :rolleyes:

LOL Deflect, question, deflect, question -- we probably have the same manager and don't even realize it.

[Warlord]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shill?s=t

2.
a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.

I'm willing to also lose a significant amount on a bet so that doesn't mean anything. Also i'm not going to win him the nomination posting on RPF talking to a few hundred (at most) people who are already sympathetic apart from your good self am i? You overestimate the powers of the Warlord. My main interest is in mere analysis and spreading the message which is why I wrote a several hundred (?) word post to try and show people how Rand operates on a recent big issue which I find fascinating. I'm sure other posters do to. Maybe not you though.

[talkingpointes]

I'm willing to also lose a significant amount on a bet so that doesn't mean anything. Also i'm not going to win him the nominationg posting on RPF talking to a few hundred (at most) people who are already sympathetic apart from your good self am i? You overestimate the powers of the Warlord. My main interest is in mere analysis and spreading the message which is why I wrote a several hundred (?) word post to try and show people how Rand operates which I find fascinating. I'm sure other posters to do. Maybe not you though.

Please you're nothing but gum on my shoe. It's just a matter of time before I smear you on the sidewalk. Keep deflecting and trying to bury this conversation it isn't going to happen.

I don't doubt you wrote that. Hell -I would expect you too right that. You don't talk about principles or rights, you talk about: money, popularity, analytics, and power. Gee why is that ?

[T.hill]

Please you're nothing but gum on my shoe. It's just a matter of time before I smear you on the sidewalk. Keep deflecting and trying to bury this conversation it isn't going to happen.

I don't doubt you wrote that. Hell -I would expect you too right that. You don't talk about principles or rights, you talk about: money, popularity, analytics, and power. Gee why is that ?

Some also praise Rand simply because of philosophical agreement.

[Warlord]

Please you're nothing but gum on my shoe. It's just a matter of time before I smear you on the sidewalk. Keep deflecting and trying to bury this conversation it isn't going to happen.

I don't doubt you wrote that. Hell -I would expect you too right that. You don't talk about principles or rights, you talk about: money, popularity, analytics, and power. Gee why is that ?

I have thousands of posts with hundreds about rights, the constitution, whatever, go read my threads in GP. Go read the thread I posted last night about police drawing blood in Georgia in the individual rights forum. I hope the mods get round to dealing with you because i'm sick of it. Back to ignore.

[T.hill]

In fact many people do

[talkingpointes]

I have thousands of posts with hundreds about rights, the constitution, whatever, go read my threads in GP. Go read the thread I posted last night about police drawing blood in Georgia in the individual rights forum. I hope the mods get round to dealing with you because i'm sick of it. Back to ignore.

You poor thing. Am I pwaying too wuff ? You're a warlord and need other people to take care of me. Suprised.

Sick is watching my country get destroyed by people like you without a spine to actually stand up. You want someone else to fight for you because you don't even live in this country. Being from somewhere else makes it that much easier for you.

[spladle]

Rand shouldn't have to pay people for their opinions. Sorry that is pathetic.

Ron Paul should have been elected President in 2012. Why should anybody care about "should" and "shouldn't"?

Barack Obama paid people for their opinions. You may think that is pathetic, but you know his name. He doesn't know yours.

[JCDenton0451]

It does both. Immigration reform is popular with powerful and important people. Coming out in favor of it allows one to garner the support of those powerful and important people. This is important for politicians who hope to hold a more powerful and important position than they presently do.

What kind of 'important people' are you talking about exactly? Big money GOP donors would much prefer someone like Jeb Bush to be the Republican nominee. You know that.

Do you really think that a hardcore Ziocon like Sheldon Adelson is going to donate to Rand's campaign? Ha!

[talkingpointes]

Ron Paul should have been elected President in 2012. Why should anybody care about "should" and "shouldn't"?

Barack Obama paid people for their opinions. You may think that is pathetic, but you know his name. He doesn't know yours.

Yeah and why did he have to pay people for their opinions ? I'll tell you why - because if people knew his real intentions he would of never of been in office. That much is obvious.

Ron has entire communities that work for him for free. That is because his message is unifying. People are here now trying to break us up and divide us. The return of the left right dichotomy is proof positive of this.

[Warlord]

What kind of 'important people' are you talking about exactly? Big money GOP donors would much prefer someone like Jeb Bush to be the Republican nominee. You know that.

Do you really think that a hardcore Ziocon like Sheldon Adelson is going to donate to Rand's campaign? Ha!

No but Silicon Valley will like him because he does support STEM and more H1B visas' but not at the expense of an atrocious bill

[spladle]

Sick is watching my country get destroyed by people like you without a spine to actually stand up. You want someone else to fight for you

What, in your mind, does it mean to "stand up" and "fight"?

How many people have you killed?

[spladle]

What kind of 'important people' are you talking about exactly?

People with money. Silicon Valley.


Do you really think that a hardcore Ziocon like Sheldon Adelson is going to donate to Rand's campaign?

No, I don't think that.

[JCDenton0451]

Graham would support immigration refom even if it meant mass funding for Gosnell like clinics all over the US If inner city abortion clinics had more funding, they would hire better doctors. Gosnell's murders would have never happened. Just saying.

Anti-abortion activists like to feign concern over women's health, while they're desperately trying to de-fund Planned Parenhood and make it harder for law-abiding abortionists to run their business in general.

[spladle]

Yeah and why did he have to pay people for their opinions ? I'll tell you why - because if people knew his real intentions he would of never of been in office. That much is obvious.

Ron has entire communities that work for him for free. That is because his message is unifying. People are here now trying to break us up and divide us. The return of the left right dichotomy is proof positive of this.

I just realized that you are probably too angry and delusional to be worth treating like a human being. Think I'll stop now.

[talkingpointes]

I just realized that you are probably too angry and delusional to be worth treating like a human being. Think I'll stop now.

OK, then stop, and go home. Clock out and leave.

[spladle]

If inner city abortion clinics had more funding, they would hire better doctors. Gosnell's murders would have never happened. Just saying.

I doubt this claim. Show your work.


Anti-abortion activists like to feign concern over women's health, while they're desperately trying to de-fund Planned Parenhood and make it harder for law-abiding abortionists to run their business in general.

You show remarkably little empathy for people you disagree with. Can you think of some reason why a person might want to de-fund Planned Parenthood and make it harder for people to have abortions that does not involve hostility to women's health?

[spladle]

OK, then stop, and go home. Clock out and leave.

Angry, delusional, and paranoid. You are probably a dangerous person. The government really ought to arrest and detain you.

[JCDenton0451]

No but Silicon Valley will like him because he does support STEM and more H1B visas' but not at the expense of an atrocious bill

So for the sake of a small number of Asian STEM graduates, Rand is going to endorsed a "reform" that provides a path to citizenship to millions of Mexican farm workers. If this is what his calculation is, then it's lousy politics and pandering at its worst. And it's not going to work anyway. Mark Zuckenberg is never going to support Rand Paul. Never ever. He is a card-carrying Democrat.

[Warlord]

JCD is a leftist in disguise. Hides it well. We're against funding for PP because it's um.. lets see.. aah yes: unconstitutional.

[Warlord]

So for the sake of a small number of Asian STEM graduates, Rand is going to endorsed a "reform" that provides a path to citizenship to millions of Mexican farm workers. If this is what his calculation is, then it's lousy politics and pandering at its worst. And it's not going to work anyway. Mark Zuckenberg is never going to support Rand Paul. Never ever. He is a card-carrying Democrat.

He has not endorsed this bill and voted against it. Jeez. You're really upset about that aren't you? :)

He's endorsed a concept... might as well be a pipe dream as Schumer is not going to let him write the bill.

Also Zuck isn't the only player in the Valley. There are many more.. smaller and medium sized companies that might appreciate Rand. Apple might appreciate him after he defended them.

[T.hill]

Yeah and why did he have to pay people for their opinions ? I'll tell you why - because if people knew his real intentions he would of never of been in office. That much is obvious.

Ron has entire communities that work for him for free. That is because his message is unifying. People are here now trying to break us up and divide us. The return of the left right dichotomy is proof positive of this.

Rand has emphasized the divisive nature of the left right paradigm numerous times as the most independent Senator in the US Senate. Your argument is frivolous as Rand has many people who already would freely work for his presidential campaign at anytime and his strategical discrepencies with his father include broadening his appeal to undecided voters and the Republican base.

Strategical and stylistic differences do not effect philosophical consistency and putting emphasis on every minute difference is divisive in itself, especially superficial ones.

[JCDenton0451]

You show remarkably little empathy for people you disagree with. Can you think of some reason why a person might want to de-fund Planned Parenthood and make it harder for people to have abortions that does not involve hostility to women's health?

Of course, I can.

They think abortion is a sin in the eyes of God. And because it is such a terrible sin, nobody should be allowed to partake in it, personal freedom and the Constitution be damned. That's the way the fundies' brains operate.

[JCDenton0451]

Also Zuck isn't the only player in the Valley. There are many more.. smaller and medium sized companies that might appreciate Rand. Apple might appreciate him after he defended them.

I don't recall Apple inc lobbying for immigration reform. They prefer to outsource the low-level jobs, while their design and R&D staff is mostly homegrown.

If Rand really wants to make inroads in the Silicon Valley, he would do much better to endorse the theory of evolution. Those techie guys tend to have scientific view of the world.

[Warlord]

I don't recall Apple inc lobbying for immigration reform. They prefer to outsource the low-level jobs, while their design and R&D staff is mostly homegrown.

If Rand really wants to make inroads in the Silicon Valley, he would do much better to endorse the theory of evolution. Those techie guys tend to have scientific view of the world.

Hopefully he endorses this man and sends you round the bend:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms0PYAr2qFw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms0PYAr2qFw

[spladle]

So for the sake of a small number of Asian STEM graduates, Rand is going to endorsed a "reform" that provides a path to citizenship to millions of Mexican farm workers.

A path to citizenship already exists for those Mexican farm workers. If you think otherwise, then you're confused.


If this is what his calculation is, then it's lousy politics and pandering at its worst. And it's not going to work anyway. Mark Zuckenberg is never going to support Rand Paul. Never ever. He is a card-carrying Democrat.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/01/mark-zuckerberg-secret-republican/61375/

[talkingpointes]

JCD is a leftist in disguise. Hides it well. We're against funding for PP because it's um.. lets see.. aah yes: unconstitutional.

Leftist. Do you have any real arguments ever ? It's not **** it's called facts.

[spladle]

Of course, I can.

They think abortion is a sin in the eyes of God. And because it is such a terrible sin, nobody should be allowed to partake in it, personal freedom and the Constitution be damned. That's the way the fundies' brains operate.

You show remarkably little empathy for people you disagree with. Can you think of some reason why a person who didn't believe in God might want to make it harder for people to have abortions?

[carlton]

You show remarkably little empathy for people you disagree with. Can you think of some reason why a person who didn't believe in God might want to make it harder for people to have abortions?

Sure, unreligious poster here who is against abortion. Why? Because in this debate about a woman, her body and her rights to choose what she wants to do with it it, its lost on abortion supporters that the fetus growing in her stomach is a person too. Now some will mock and say that a human being isnt a human being until (insert arbitrary qualifier here) but lets be honest, if the fetus growing in her womb wasn't destined to become an actual person then there would be no abortion in the first place. In many cases, women are frightened of the prospect of this impending human life and how it will impact their own lives, so they abort thew fetus and justify it by saying its human life hasn't yet begun, on this I disagree too.

[spladle]

Sure, unreligious poster here who is against abortion. Why? Because in this debate about a woman, her body and her rights to choose what she wants to do with it it, its lost on abortion supporters that the fetus growing in her stomach is a person too. Now some will mock and say that a human being isnt a human being until (insert arbitrary qualifier here) but lets be honest, if the fetus growing in her womb wasn't destined to become an actual person then there would be no abortion in the first place. In many cases, women are frightened of the prospect of this impending human life and how it will impact their own lives, so they abort thew fetus and justify it by saying its human life hasn't yet begun, on this I disagree too.

Why do you hate women?

[carlton]

Why do you hate women?

If you're not joking, I'd like to ask how you came to that conclusion from what I wrote?

[spladle]

If you're not joking, I'd like to ask how you came to that conclusion from what I wrote?

http://memecrunch.com/meme/1Y6R/i-never-joke/image.png

[carlton]

Hahaha thats nice to know. I just wanted to make it clear that there is a lot of merit for being anti-abortion even if you are irreligious.

[Brett85]

Of course, I can.

They think abortion is a sin in the eyes of God. And because it is such a terrible sin, nobody should be allowed to partake in it, personal freedom and the Constitution be damned. That's the way the fundies' brains operate.

And according to you "personal freedom" includes stealing money from me and giving it to groups like Planned Parenthood that perform abortions. Lol. Like Warlord said, you're a leftist in disguise.

[spladle]

Hahaha thats nice to know. I just wanted to make it clear that there is a lot of merit for being anti-abortion even if you are irreligious.

Whatever, fundie. JCDenton0451 knows that you're just hostile to women's health.

[69360]

Warlord are you kidding. This is the writing of a shill -- this is EXACTLY what I would expect.

You're mad he's shilling for Rand on randpaulforums.com? :confused: You must be in the wrong place.


What kind of 'important people' are you talking about exactly? Big money GOP donors would much prefer someone like Jeb Bush to be the Republican nominee. You know that.

Do you really think that a hardcore Ziocon like Sheldon Adelson is going to donate to Rand's campaign? Ha!

Primary no, but won't actively oppose. General? Yes they he/they will.

Don't forget, Rand went and kissed the wall.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

No it isn't. Rand shouldn't have to pay people for their opinions. Sorry that is pathetic.

Where do I sign up?

[ZENemy]

Masterful Politician; to me, sounds like one who is "Really, really good at lying and deception"