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View Full Version : Wayne Madsen Reveals: Secret European deals to hand over private data to America




Warlord
06-29-2013, 03:46 PM
EXTRA! EXTRA!

Hold the Front Page!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BN8_eomCEAAYvMk.jpg


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Observer/Pix/pictures/2013/6/29/1372529468188/Wayne-Madsen-010.jpg

Revealed: secret European deals to hand over private data to America

Germany 'among countries offering intelligence' according to new claims by former US defence analyst

At least six European Union countries in addition to Britain have been colluding with the US over the mass harvesting of personal communications data, according to a former contractor to America's National Security Agency, who said the public should not be "kept in the dark".

Wayne Madsen, a former US navy lieutenant who first worked for the NSA in 1985 and over the next 12 years held several sensitive positions within the agency, names Denmark, the Netherlands, France, Germany, Spain and Italy as having secret deals with the US.

Madsen said the countries had "formal second and third party status" under signal intelligence (sigint) agreements that compels them to hand over data, including mobile phone and internet information to the NSA if requested.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/29/european-private-data-america

Warlord
06-29-2013, 03:51 PM
** WORLD EXCLUSIVE ***

Madsen's disclosures have prompted calls for European governments to come clean on their arrangements with the NSA. "There needs to be transparency as to whether or not it is legal for the US or any other security service to interrogate private material," said John Cooper QC, a leading international human rights lawyer. "The problem here is that none of these arrangements has been debated in any democratic arena. I agree with William Hague that sometimes things have to be done in secret, but you don't break the law in secret."


Madsen said all seven European countries and the US have access to the Tat 14 fibre-optic cable network running between Denmark and Germany, the Netherlands, France, the UK and the US, allowing them to intercept vast amounts of data, including phone calls, emails and records of users' access to websites.

Warlord
06-29-2013, 04:03 PM
Pretty big scoop.

Warlord
06-29-2013, 05:23 PM
Madsen has really set a fire storm off. Wonder what the reaction will be like in Germany? Merkel is up for re-election this year.

Elias Graves
06-29-2013, 06:15 PM
Lets hope the Europeans aren't too far gone to stand up.

Warlord
06-29-2013, 06:18 PM
Lets hope the Europeans aren't too far gone to stand up.

I'm getting distracted by the tennis lady's legs.

better-dead-than-fed
06-29-2013, 06:20 PM
"This article has been taken down pending an investigation."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/info/2013/jun/30/taken-down

Elias Graves
06-29-2013, 06:20 PM
I'm getting distracted by the tennis lady's legs.

As well you should be. Go back to watching the television, ok? Nothing to see here, subject.

better-dead-than-fed
06-29-2013, 06:21 PM
I'd like to investigate those legs.

Elias Graves
06-29-2013, 06:21 PM
"This article has been taken down pending an investigation."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/info/2013/jun/30/taken-down


http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs50/i/2009/275/7/7/Fascinating_Mr_Spock_by_Werelover969.jpg

HOLLYWOOD
06-29-2013, 06:24 PM
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TeiQM6khM2M/0.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=zZ8kX-yiDMEIoM&tbnid=Vnp-WdZjv6RA5M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fshelf3d.com%2FSearch%2Fworld%2520 government&ei=S3jPUcPSAoHJiwKb1oH4Dw&bvm=bv.48572450,d.cGE&psig=AFQjCNGzdFR7bp3GZusbDADOGWN1Mzd1pA&ust=1372637525470429)

Warlord
06-29-2013, 06:31 PM
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs50/i/2009/275/7/7/Fascinating_Mr_Spock_by_Werelover969.jpg

Quinto is better SPOCK than Nimoy. I'm now convinced after seeing the 2nd film in Kabul's IMAX. he was superb.

Warlord
06-29-2013, 06:32 PM
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TeiQM6khM2M/0.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=zZ8kX-yiDMEIoM&tbnid=Vnp-WdZjv6RA5M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fshelf3d.com%2FSearch%2Fworld%2520 government&ei=S3jPUcPSAoHJiwKb1oH4Dw&bvm=bv.48572450,d.cGE&psig=AFQjCNGzdFR7bp3GZusbDADOGWN1Mzd1pA&ust=1372637525470429)

LOL what did Jack say? i thought this might be a little out there for him :) He certainly would suggest that now

Elias Graves
06-29-2013, 06:32 PM
Quinto is better SPOCK than Nimoy. I'm now convinced after seeing the 2nd film. he was superb.

Your inner nerd is now revealed!
But I agree. He's great.

Warlord
06-29-2013, 06:35 PM
Your inner nerd is now revealed!
But I agree. He's great.

I thought it was a shame they brought Nimoy back for the 2nd film. There's no need now. Quinto is the new Spock.

Elias Graves
06-29-2013, 06:38 PM
I thought it was a shame they brought Nimoy back for the 2nd film. There's no need now. Quinto is the new Spock.

They came dangerously close to overdosing on old references in the new one. You're right; it's time to let the old universe fade.

Warlord
06-29-2013, 06:41 PM
They came dangerously close to overdosing on old references in the new one. You're right; it's time to let the old universe fade.

I hope they make a new film every 3 years for the next 30 years and JJ Abrams lives forever. It'll be interesting to see what direction they go in now they have a winning formula and if they keep it on the big screen or do a tv series? lots of potential and a very young cast. They will surely want to milk it for all its worth knowing Paramount.

Elias Graves
06-29-2013, 06:46 PM
I've always thought trek did better on the small screen than the theater. The "big story" can only be trotted out so many times before fatigue sets in. I always liked the smaller stories on the series myself. You don't have to save the whole world every week.

Warlord
06-29-2013, 06:50 PM
I've always thought trek did better on the small screen than the theater. The "big story" can only be trotted out so many times before fatigue sets in. I always liked the smaller stories on the series myself.

I think what they've done with the 2 movies so far has worked very well. They've been huge box office successes which is more than you can say from the last attempt when Burman ran the show and had TV series going on at the same time. I think they were simply doing too much and lost control of direction and new ideas while they continuously churned out scripts. I wonder what they will do with trek and whether Paramount will want it on TV.. I think the $$$ calculation will be made. There's lots of money still being made from DVD and now BLURAY boxsets of the series from decades ago. The question is can they make money on the tv in the short term and will they need to make 24 episodes to satisfy the networks. I think that's too much. They should maybe try and do something with HBO who have a great reputation for high quality series. Would they be interested/

Warlord
06-29-2013, 06:57 PM
Why have the GUARDIAN pulled the Madsen story? This is extremely odd particularly as its gone to print. If they're pulling it from print they will have to do a late edition in the UK> That's not unheard of.

Elias Graves
06-29-2013, 06:57 PM
Hbo or the like might be a cool idea. Unfortunately I dropped my cable a couple months ago. :lol:

Warlord
06-29-2013, 06:58 PM
They might have been subjected to a D-Notice in the UK. This is a blanket censorship tool used by the Ministry of Defense and invoked on national security matters. Would not surprise me if they had to pull it because of that.

Elias Graves
06-29-2013, 06:58 PM
Why have the GUARDIAN pulled the Madsen story? This is extremely odd particularly as its gone to print. If they're pulling it from print they will have to do a late edition in the UK> That's not unheard of.

That's why I posted the "fascinating" pic. It is curious.

Warlord
06-29-2013, 07:00 PM
Save the front page and all the story if you can... archive it somewhere. I dont have a full copy sadly. damnit. someone must have.

This has been spiked because of a D-Notice from the FASCIST Cameron government . I know it.

Warlord
06-29-2013, 07:10 PM
Cameron/Hague and the fascist NEOCONS have spiked this story... pretty sure... there's no other reason. This was a well written piece wth quotes from various lawyers and organizations and its gone to print. Guess we'll find out soon if they have spiked the print edition which is due to be distributed in a few short hours.

Warlord
06-29-2013, 07:11 PM
Cameron is in Afghanistan trying to put a brave face on defeat and capitulation to the stated enemy (Taliban)

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/6/29/245408/default/v1/cegrab-20130629-113336-295-1-626x352.jpg

Warlord
06-29-2013, 07:46 PM
Full copy of the article they spiked:

-
Revealed: secret European deals to hand over private data to America Germany 'among countries offering intelligence' according to new claims by former US defence analyst



At least six European Union countries in addition to Britain have been colluding with the US over the mass harvesting of personal communications data, according to a former contractor to America's National Security Agency, who said the public should not be "kept in the dark".

Wayne Madsen, a former US navy lieutenant who first worked for the NSA in 1985 and over the next 12 years held several sensitive positions within the agency, names Denmark, the Netherlands, France, Germany, Spain and Italy as having secret deals with the US.

Madsen said the countries had "formal second and third party status" under signal intelligence (sigint) agreements that compels them to hand over data, including mobile phone and internet information to the NSA if requested.

Under international intelligence agreements, confirmed by declassified documents, nations are categorised by the US according to their trust level. The US is first party while the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand enjoy second party relationships. Germany and France have third party relationships.

In an interview published last night on the PrivacySurgeon.org blog, Madsen, who has been attacked for holding controversial views on espionage issues, said he had decided to speak out after becoming concerned about the "half story" told by EU politicians regarding the extent of the NSA's activities in Europe.

He said that under the agreements, which were drawn up after the second world war, the "NSA gets the lion's share" of the sigint "take". In return, the third parties to the NSA agreements received "highly sanitised intelligence".

Madsen said he was alarmed at the "sanctimonious outcry" of political leaders who were "feigning shock" about the spying operations while staying silent about their own arrangements with the US, and was particularly concerned that senior German politicians had accused the UK of spying when their country had a similar third-party deal with the NSA.

Although the level of co-operation provided by other European countries to the NSA is not on the same scale as that provided by the UK, the allegations are potentially embarrassing.

"I can't understand how Angela Merkel can keep a straight face, demanding assurances from [Barack] Obama and the UK while Germany has entered into those exact relationships," Madsen said.

The Liberal Democrat MEP Baroness Ludford, a senior member of the European parliament's civil liberties, justice and home affairs committee, said Madsen's allegations confirmed that the entire system for monitoring data interception was a mess, because the EU was unable to intervene in intelligence matters, which remained the exclusive concern of national governments.

"The intelligence agencies are exploiting these contradictions and no one is really holding them to account," Ludford said. "It's terribly undermining to liberal democracy."

Madsen's disclosures have prompted calls for European governments to come clean on their arrangements with the NSA. "There needs to be transparency as to whether or not it is legal for the US or any other security service to interrogate private material," said John Cooper QC, a leading international human rights lawyer. "The problem here is that none of these arrangements has been debated in any democratic arena. I agree with William Hague that sometimes things have to be done in secret, but you don't break the law in secret."

Madsen said all seven European countries and the US have access to the Tat 14 fibre-optic cable network running between Denmark and Germany, the Netherlands, France, the UK and the US, allowing them to intercept vast amounts of data, including phone calls, emails and records of users' access to websites.

He said the public needed to be made aware of the full scale of the communication-sharing arrangements between European countries and the US, which predate the internet and became of strategic importance during the cold war.

The covert relationship between the countries was first outlined in a 2001 report by the European parliament, but their explicit connection with the NSA was not publicised until Madsen decided to speak out.

The European parliament's report followed revelations that the NSA was conducting a global intelligence-gathering operation, known as Echelon, which appears to have established the framework for European member states to collaborate with the US.

"A lot of this information isn't secret, nor is it new," Madsen said. "It's just that governments have chosen to keep the public in the dark about it. The days when they could get away with a conspiracy of silence are over."

This month another former NSA contractor, Edward Snowden, revealed to the Guardian previously undisclosed US programmes to monitor telephone and internet traffic. The NSA is alleged to have shared some of its data, gathered using a specialist tool called Prism, with Britain's GCHQ.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=cache:http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/29/european-private-data-america&oq=cache:http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/29/european-private-data-america&gs_l=serp.3..0l4.38054.42932.0.43916.7.6.0.0.0.2.6 64.1333.0j1j1j1j0j1.4.0...0.2...1c.1j2.18.psy-ab.LFVExcqE95c&pbx=1

Warlord
06-29-2013, 07:54 PM
editors have taken it down while they look at it... they've had complaints about Madsen the source of the story due to him being an alleged "conspiracy" theorist i.e someone who tells the truth most of the time.

Warlord
06-30-2013, 02:38 AM
Disgraceful they took it down!

QuickZ06
06-30-2013, 02:44 AM
Quinto is better SPOCK than Nimoy. I'm now convinced after seeing the 2nd film in Kabul's IMAX. he was superb.

LMAO!

Warlord
06-30-2013, 05:07 AM
WIKILEAKS aren't happy with Wayne Madsen because he's accused them of being a front group LOL

Edited version of the story is now on Drudge. Guardian still has shamefully pulled it. Morning print edition has not changed.

Warlord
06-30-2013, 05:18 AM
Story becomes the story:

-
The Guardian Revealed An NSA 'Scoop' Then Deleted It From Their Website

...

He went on to say that seven European countries and the U.S. have access to a fiberoptic cable network, intercepting phone calls, emails, and user logs from websites. The article describes Madsen as having "been attacked for holding controversial views on espionage issues."

That's a light way of putting it.

Some of Madsen's controversial views include the belief that President Obama is secretly a homosexual and that the Boston bombing suspects were government agents. He's also reported on a "former CIA agent" alleging the 2000 USS Cole bombing was perpetrated not by al Qaeda terrorists, but by a missile fired from an Israeli submarine.

John Schindler, a professor at the Naval War College and intelligence expert, called Madsen "batsh-- crazy, to use the technical term."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-guardian-wayne-madsen-nsa-scoop-2013-6#ixzz2XhHlcAuX
-

Neocon "expert" from the War College doesn't like some of the sources reporting so they pulled the story?

Totally insane.

The Guardian should be ashamed of themselves for not standing by a truth telling source like Wayne Madsen.

Yeah ok so maybe Obama's not gay (not read the story) but Iraq didn't have any WMDs either and that lie appeared everywhere and was hugely damaging you pathetic, disgusting neocons.

Warlord
06-30-2013, 05:34 AM
Updated the original post with a better scan of this mornings front page of The Observer (circulation about 300,000 I think)

Nobexliberty
06-30-2013, 06:16 AM
See, now you all understand how much europe sucks too.

Warlord
06-30-2013, 06:21 AM
For anyone interested:

How to stop the NSA snooping on your emails (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?419826-How-to-stop-the-NSA-snooping-on-your-emails&p=5101739#post5101739)

green73
06-30-2013, 06:30 AM
Hasn't Madsen been saying this for years on the Alex Jones Show?

Warlord
06-30-2013, 06:31 AM
Hasn't Madsen been saying this for years on the Alex Jones Show?

I think this is specific info he hasn't spoken about before