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Occam's Banana
06-28-2013, 08:14 AM
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2013/06/no-one-is-innocent.html


I broke the law yesterday and again today and I will probably break the law tomorrow. Don’t mistake me, I have done nothing wrong. I don’t even know what laws I have broken. Nevertheless, I am reasonably confident that I have broken some laws, rules, or regulations recently because its hard for anyone to live today without breaking the law. Doubt me? Have you ever thrown out some junk mail that came to your house but was addressed to someone else? That’s a violation of federal law punishable by up to 5 years in prison (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1702).

Harvey Silverglate argues that a typical American commits three felonies a day (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594035229/ref=s9_cskin_gw_p351_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1F74PGFSK6SHWEF8NMB8&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1389517282&pf_rd_i=507846/marginalrevol-20). I think that number is too high but it is easy to violate the law without intent or knowledge. Most crimes used to be based on the common law and ancient understandings of wrong (murder, assault, theft and so on) but today there are thousands of federal criminal laws that bear no relation to common law or common understanding. The WSJ illustrates (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703749504576172714184601654.html):


Last September (2011), retired race-car champion Bobby Unser told a congressional hearing about his 1996 misdemeanor conviction for accidentally driving a snowmobile onto protected federal land, violating the Wilderness Act, while lost in a snowstorm. Though the judge gave him only a $75 fine, the 77-year-old racing legend got a criminal record.

Mr. Unser says he was charged after he went to authorities for help finding his abandoned snowmobile. “The criminal doesn’t usually call the police for help,” he says.

Or how about this:

In 2009, Mr. Anderson loaned his son some tools to dig for arrowheads near a favorite campground of theirs. Unfortunately, they were on federal land….

There is no evidence the Andersons intended to break the law, or even knew the law existed, according to court records and interviews. But the law, the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979, doesn’t require criminal intent and makes it a felony punishable by up to two years in prison to attempt to take artifacts off federal land without a permit.


The Anderson’s didn’t even find any arrowheads but the attempt to find was punishable by imprisonment. Under statutes such as the Lacey Act one can even face criminal prosecution for violating the laws of another country (http://masglp.olemiss.edu/Water%20Log/WL23/23.1honduras.htm). Ignorance of another country’s laws is no excuse.

If someone tracked you for a year are you confident that they would find no evidence of a crime? Remember, under the common law, mens rea, criminal intent, was a standard requirement for criminal prosecution but today that is typically no longer the case especially under federal criminal law.

Faced with the evidence of an non-intentional crime, most prosecutors, of course, would use their discretion and not threaten imprisonment. Evidence and discretion, however, are precisely the point. Today, no one is innocent and thus our freedom is maintained only by the high cost of evidence and the prosecutor’s discretion.

One of the responses to the revelations about the mass spying on Americans by the NSA and other agencies is “I have nothing to hide. What me worry?” I tweeted in response “If you have nothing to hide, you live a boring life.” More fundamentally, the NSA spying machine has reduced the cost of evidence so that today our freedom–or our independence (http://www.interfluidity.com/v2/4435.html)–is to a large extent at the discretion of those in control of the panopticon.

aGameOfThrones
06-28-2013, 08:34 AM
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

http://media.tumblr.com/dfe7106f3855aff282b6f358b798426c/tumblr_inline_mlnzbiJWsO1qz4rgp.gif

Elias Graves
06-28-2013, 09:25 AM
The Colorado pot laws are a prime example. Just because its legal where you live, it's still against federal law. If you visit any of the numerous national parks in Colorado, federal law enforcement can still bust you.
Further, if you've ever bought a firearm and said "no" when they ask you if you're addicted to any controlled substances, you've lied on the form, which is a felony. Your firearms are now subject to confiscation.

tod evans
06-28-2013, 10:31 AM
The Colorado pot laws are a prime example. Just because its legal where you live, it's still against federal law. If you visit any of the numerous national parks in Colorado, federal law enforcement can still bust you.
Further, if you've ever bought a firearm and said "no" when they ask you if you're addicted to any controlled substances, you've lied on the form, which is a felony. Your firearms are now subject to confiscation.

Not just confiscation....Research the 924c statute..

Elias Graves
06-28-2013, 10:36 AM
Not just confiscation....Research the 924c statute..

You got it.
The Feds love the dichotomy. They can ignore the useful criminals but always have ammunition for when someone needs to be taken out. No need to get messy with political arrests when there's always a crime handy. It's for the kids' safety, after all. Who doesn't want safe kids?

pcosmar
06-28-2013, 12:48 PM
The Colorado pot laws are a prime example. Just because its legal where you live, it's still against federal law. If you visit any of the numerous national parks in Colorado, federal law enforcement can still bust you.
Further, if you've ever bought a firearm and said "no" when they ask you if you're addicted to any controlled substances, you've lied on the form, which is a felony. Your firearms are now subject to confiscation.

Using any substance does not equal addiction.

But I wouldn't doubt they would try that.