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View Full Version : Immigration bill includes $5,000 penalty on American workers




Warlord
06-26-2013, 07:16 AM
Too bad the moron senators voted to cut off debate... their bill includes a $5,000 penalty on American workers which means firms have an incentive to fire Americans and hire immigrants who have been granted Registered Provisional status under the bill:

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Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) argued Tuesday that because the comprehensive immigration reform bill prohibits immigrant workers from getting ObamaCare benefits, employers will fire U.S. workers and replace them with immigrants.

Cruz said he wanted to offer an amendment to address the “most egregious aspect” of the immigration bill. He said that because employers with more than 50 full-time employees will face a $5,000 penalty for not providing health insurance benefits, those employers would instead hire immigrants with resident provisional immigration (RPI) status instead of U.S. workers.

“Anyone granted RPI status is exempted from ObamaCare, which means that the employers that would be hiring them do not face the tax of $5,000 per employee,” Cruz said. “This bill creates an enormous incentive to hire those here illegally and it does so by creating a statutory penalty for hiring U.S. citizens.”

The immigration bill — which is expected to pass by the end of the week — would grant nearly 11 million illegal immigrants provisional legal status for 10 years before they could then apply for a green card.

At the insistence of Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), immigrants would not be eligible for ObamaCare benefits in addition to other mean-tested welfare until after they've gained citizenship.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/307761-cruz-immigration-bill-obamacare-create-enormous-incentive-to-hire-immigrants#ixzz2XKNxbnf8

Warlord
06-26-2013, 07:24 AM
Here's another stiffing Democrats have given Americans:

More unemployment, lower wages according to the CBO. They killed a "fix" to the H1-B visa program and replaced it with a youth job stimulus program.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/in-immigration-bill-the-job-protection-that-never-happened/article/2532403?custom_click=rss

kathy88
06-26-2013, 08:10 AM
This bill is absolutely horrific.

shane77m
06-26-2013, 08:14 AM
It's all Bush's fault.

HOLLYWOOD
06-26-2013, 08:15 AM
Anyone who votes for this is the House are bought or bribed.

I can't even imagine US minorities already struggling from Washington DC oppression supporting this 25lb bill.


We knew about the lifer scum in the US Senate like McCain, etc... but Marco Rubio has proven, he is the Manchurian Candidate

AWFUL BILL for taxpayers, Americans, the poor

Warlord
06-26-2013, 09:48 AM
Anyone who votes for this is the House are bought or bribed.

I can't even imagine US minorities already struggling from Washington DC oppression supporting this 25lb bill.


We knew about the lifer scum in the US Senate like McCain, etc... but Marco Rubio has proven, he is the Manchurian Candidate

AWFUL BILL for taxpayers, Americans, the poor

The Democrats and Schumer love giving the working poor a stiffing... if you owned a fast food restaurant or hotel the first thing you'd do is fire everyone and hire illegals. Makes perfect sense. I can't think of anything more stupid than this... and to think every Democrat will be supporting it because all that matters to them is millions of new (and semi-literate) voters so they can stay in power forever.

asurfaholic
06-26-2013, 10:13 AM
$5000 isn't really alot of money for a company that is 50 employees strong or more. I don't think that people will be as quick to fire the Americans as the article suggests. There is a certain incentive that some companies value to keep US Americans.

oyarde
06-26-2013, 11:10 AM
Well , they will also not have to pay the 3 k per employee health care fine on immigrants for 13 years( Senate bill).If they are not providing a "Federally approved" health plan.

Carlybee
06-26-2013, 11:15 AM
More and more companies here in Texas are requiring job applicants be bi-lingual.

Warlord
06-26-2013, 11:20 AM
$5000 isn't really alot of money for a company that is 50 employees strong or more. I don't think that people will be as quick to fire the Americans as the article suggests. There is a certain incentive that some companies value to keep US Americans.

You have to be joking.. it's a no brainer for many service companies. They will absolutely fire everyone and hire from the new pool of registered immigrant workers

Philhelm
06-26-2013, 12:56 PM
This bill is absolutely horrific.

And by horrific, you mean terrific! I will enjoy seeing the seeds of hate and rage flourish.

asurfaholic
06-26-2013, 01:12 PM
You have to be joking.. it's a no brainer for many service companies. They will absolutely fire everyone and hire from the new pool of registered immigrant workers

I work for an electrical service company... We do not hire minorities or foreigners.


I think the bill is horrific, but I think the article and what Ted Cruz is saying is a bit overblown. That doesn't mean i support the bill.

asurfaholic
06-26-2013, 01:16 PM
You have to be joking.. it's a no brainer for many service companies. They will absolutely fire everyone and hire from the new pool of registered immigrant workers

And this whole fire everyone and start over with Mexicans /immigrants would destroy most service companies. Established work patterns and habits, important business relationships, leadership- all thrown away to save 5000$? You have to be the joker if you think that. I know things might be different over there in your paki cave, but here in the real world.......

Alot of the labor intensive jobs already use Mexican workers for their laborors, but they still have US American bosses, crew leaders..

Warlord
06-26-2013, 01:18 PM
And this whole fire everyone and start over with Mexicans immigrants *would destroy most service companies. Established work patterns and habits, important business relationships, leadership- all thrown away to save 5000$? You have to be the joker if you think that. I know things might be different over there in your paki cave, but here in the real world.......

Um.. $5k * 10 or 20 soon adds up for your fast food restaurant, hotel, service company, etc. If I ran a business like that i'd fire everyone and hire from the pool of immigrants. Absolute no brainer.

dannno
06-26-2013, 01:23 PM
Oh, I have a solution, let's just ban businesses from hiring immigrants!! Horray for government solutions!

asurfaholic
06-26-2013, 01:25 PM
Um.. $5k * 10 or 20 soon adds up for your fast food restaurant, hotel, service company, etc. If I ran a business like that i'd fire everyone and hire from the pool of immigrants. Absolute no brainer.

At my company, the jobs i run I typically make my company at least $5-6k a week, just me and the crew under me. Sometimes more. And we have several crews of similar nature.

I can see your point about fast food establishments, but I have already seen in 2 occasions local business splitting into 2 separate companies, doing the same thing, thus avoiding the penalty. But funny thing is, both of those companies already use a heavy immigrant workforce...

dannno
06-26-2013, 01:38 PM
Wait, is it $5,000 fine PER employee or $5,000 fine for having a million employees without health insurance?

$5,000 per employee is a lot. $5,000 total is not much.

Warlord
06-26-2013, 01:45 PM
At my company, the jobs i run I typically make my company at least $5-6k a week, just me and the crew under me. Sometimes more. And we have several crews of similar nature.

I can see your point about fast food establishments, but I have already seen in 2 occasions local business splitting into 2 separate companies, doing the same thing, thus avoiding the penalty. But funny thing is, both of those companies already use a heavy immigrant workforce...

I dont give a crap about your company or your anecdotes dude. I'm telling you how this will work in the fast food restaurants, hotels, bars, whatever. They employ millions o Americans and under this bill they have a huge incentive to just fire everyone and hire from the pool of 12-15million "registered" provisional immigrants or however many sign up. Each one saves them 5k for at least 10 years in Obamacare . No brainer

Warlord
06-26-2013, 01:46 PM
Wait, is it $5,000 fine PER employee or $5,000 fine for having a million employees without health insurance?

$5,000 per employee is a lot. $5,000 total is not much.

$5k per employee I believe is the fine that you get if you don't provide health coverage to the employee. These registered immigrants aren't eligable for it so makes sense to hire them and fire their American cousin

Warlord
06-26-2013, 01:50 PM
Here's some more details:

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For each worker who accesses ObamaCare subsidies, an employer who offers insurance that is either too pricey or too skimpy would owe a nondeductible yearly fine of $3,000. For profit-making firms paying a 40% federal and state tax rate, that equates to $5,000 in wages.

CBO expects employers to pay fines for 1 million workers who are offered coverage that isn't up to snuff.

The penalty would apply for U.S. citizens who clock 30 or more hours a week — but not for legalized immigrants who will be ineligible for ObamaCare subsidies for a decade or more. Thus, employers deciding whether to cut a citizen or immigrant to part-time would have a big incentive to tilt against the citizen.

More:
http://news.investors.com/blogs-capital-hill/061913-660589-immigration-deficit-score-enable-employer-mandate-fix.htm

dannno
06-26-2013, 01:51 PM
$5k per employee I believe is the fine that you get if you don't provide health coverage to the employee. These registered immigrants aren't eligable for it so makes sense to hire them and fire their American cousin

I think asurfaholic may be thinking it is $5,000 total, because a $5,000 additional cost for each employee is pretty big.

Obviously they won't fire everybody and hire immigrants because there aren't enough immigrants with enough skills, but the incentive will be there and it will happen.

Warlord
06-26-2013, 01:55 PM
I think asurfaholic may be thinking it is $5,000 total, because a $5,000 additional cost for each employee is pretty big.

Obviously they won't fire everybody and hire immigrants because there aren't enough immigrants with enough skills, but the incentive will be there and it will happen.

The fine is $3k but $5k in reality for a profit making business

There's enough immigrants who can flip burgers or serve drinks, etc. devestating for Americans in those industries. CBO says they expect 1 million people to have insufficient coverage so business has to pay a 3k fine LOL you dont think they're just going to fire all those Americans and hire immigrants if this thing becomes law? Or at least reduce them to all under 30 hours so the immigrant gets to work full time but the citizen doesn't?

dannno
06-26-2013, 01:55 PM
I work for an electrical service company... We do not hire minorities or foreigners.


I think the bill is horrific, but I think the article and what Ted Cruz is saying is a bit overblown. That doesn't mean i support the bill.

I work for a private company that is pretty big, a few hundred employees, but if the President sees a $5,000 expense he sees that as coming out of his and the owner's pocket. We have a lot of warehouse workers here who are legal, but mostly latino, and I could see how many would likely be let go in favor of these new statused immigrants.

Warlord
06-26-2013, 02:00 PM
Whatever way you look at it Chuck Schumer and the Gang of 8 are really screwing low wage American workers here.

I wonder if they're going to try and fix it or if they're actually going to ram this through and defend what is pretty indefensible.

None of them have read the god damn bill.

asurfaholic
06-26-2013, 02:08 PM
Yea I didn't realize it was per person. Is it a annual penalty?

Warlord
06-26-2013, 02:17 PM
Yea I didn't realize it was per person. Is it a annual penalty?

I am not sure, looks like a one time thing per worker.

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The problem arises when this rule interacts with another provision of Obamacare – the employer mandate. Starting in January, businesses with 50 or more employees who don’t offer workers health insurance that the federal government deems acceptable must pay a penalty if at least one of their workers obtains insurance on a new government-run exchange. The penalty (http://www.irs.gov/uac/Newsroom/Questions-and-Answers-on-Employer-Shared-Responsibility-Provisions-Under-the-Affordable-Care-Act) is up to $3,000 per worker.

This means if the immigration bill becomes law, some employers could effectively face incentives of hundreds of thousands of dollars to hire newly legalized immigrants over American citizens, because the immigrant workers would not qualify for Obamacare benefits.

As the implementation of Obamacare approaches, there have been many news reports about companies considering cutting back full-time workers to part-time, or taking other actions to get around the mandate penalties. The immigration bill would offer employers another way out –hiring fewer American citizens and more immigrants with provisional legal status.

It’s not surprising that this unintended consequence hasn’t yet been resolved, because there’s no easy fix. One way of eliminating the problem would be to get rid of the employer mandate in Obamacare altogether – which would be a non-starter for Democrats. The other way would be to give noncitizen immigrants with provisional status access to Obamacare’s benefits – which would destroy any hopes of garnering Republican votes.

Jed Graham of Investor’s Business Daily first reported (http://news.investors.com/041713-652257-immigration-reform-meets-obamacare-employer-mandate.htm) this complication in April. When I followed up (http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2527978) back then, Sen. Marco Rubio’s spokesman Alex Conant told me it was exactly the type of issue that could be addressed during the legislative process. “[T]he scenario you raise illustrates both the absurdity of Obamacare, and why we have insisted on a lengthy process to review this legislation before any votes are taken,” Conant emailed at the time. “We always expected there might be a need for amendments to fix technical problems, and we’ll be interested in seeing what sort of amendments might be offered to improve this part of the legislation without giving Obamacare to illegals – something Sen. Rubio has always said he will not support.”

However, the issue was never addressed in any of the more than 200 amendments proposed when the immigration legislation made its way through the Senate Judiciary Committee. Another flood of amendments are expected to be filed later Tuesday afternoon, assuming the immigration bill clears the necessary procedural vote thresholds. My contact with multiple Senate offices offered no indication that this specific issue would be addressed. Conant did not respond to requests for comment on this story.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/obamacares-tariff-on-hiring-american-workers-still-plagues-immigration-bill/article/2532013?utm_source=Washington%20Examiner:%20Opinio n%20Digest%20-%2006/18/2013&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Washington%20Examiner:%20Opinion%20Di gest

shane77m
06-26-2013, 02:20 PM
And I always thought the Democrat party was supposed to be for the "working man."

Warlord
06-26-2013, 02:24 PM
And I always thought the Democrat party was supposed to be for the "working man."

A semi-literate immigrant is worth a lot more to Chuck Schumer and the Democrats. They believe everything they're told, hate capitalism etc. This is why they're ramming this through and dont care about low wage or unskilled Americans.

asurfaholic
06-26-2013, 02:55 PM
If it is a $3,000 per worker tax, I am sure any sensible business could work that into the equation. Unfortunately that would lead to a drastic rise in prices, as everyone will be either doing it, or dying off...

But still, the private market can still win on this, there will be openings. Things will be rough, no doubt/// I hate Obamacare with a passion and I hate it...

Warlord, I guess you should know Im not really saying you are wrong so much, I agree with you for the most part.

Warlord
06-26-2013, 04:32 PM
More people need to know about this horrific provision.

oyarde
06-27-2013, 12:52 AM
And I always thought the Democrat party was supposed to be for the "working man."

That there was funny , been fucking those the most for 100 years ,they hate the shit out of them , only want taxes and votes from those dumbasses. Insert Forrest Gump here , lol

devil21
06-27-2013, 02:26 AM
Any bill that weighs 25 pounds should be voted down on general principle.