Transgender 6-year-old wins civil rights case to use girls bathroom

[QuickZ06]

DENVER — A Colorado school district discriminated against a transgender first grader when it refused to let her use the girl’s bathroom, the state’s civil rights division has determined, a decision gay and transgender advocates say will have an indelible impact on how such cases are handled in the future.

In a sharply worded ruling, the division concluded that the Fountain-Fort Carson School District needlessly created a situation in which the student, Coy Mathis, would be subject to harassment when it barred her from the girls’ bathroom even though she clearly identified as female.

Telling Coy “that she must disregard her identity while performing one of the most essential human functions constitutes severe and pervasive treatment, and creates an environment that is objectively and subjectively hostile, intimidating or offensive,” Steven Chavez, the division director, wrote in the decision.

The dispute over whether Coy, 6, should be allowed to use the girls’ bathroom was seen by some as a critical test of how state antidiscrimination laws were applied to transgender students.

Born biologically a boy, Coy began identifying as a girl after just a few years, growing her wispy blond hair long, wearing dresses, and telling family and friends they should refer to her as female.

During kindergarten, Coy’s parents informed her school that their child identified as a girl and should be treated as one. Initially, the school, just south of Colorado Springs, agreed.

But a few months into first grade, the district barred Coy from using the girls’ bathroom, telling her parents that as she grew older and developed, some students and parents would likely become uncomfortable. It was best that Coy use staff bathrooms or a gender-neutral one in the school’s health office, the district officials decided.

Furious, the Mathises pulled Coy from school and lodged a complaint with the state’s civil rights division in February, claiming the district had violated Colorado’s 2008 antidiscrimination statute, which expanded provisions for transgender people.

After an investigation, the division, which enforces Colorado’s antidiscrimination laws, agreed. It noted that while Coy’s birth certificate stated she was male — an argument made by the school district — more recent medical and legal documents identified her as female.

It was clear, the state said, that Coy had completely integrated into society as a girl — wearing girls’ clothing, standing in the girls’ line at school and choosing to play with girls.

But the state’s ruling went even further, saying that evolving research on transgender development showed that “compartmentalizing a child as a boy or a girl solely based on their visible anatomy, is a simplistic approach to a difficult and complex issue.”

Depriving Coy of the acceptance that students need to succeed in school, Mr. Chavez wrote, “creates a barrier where none should exist, and entirely disregards the charging party’s gender identity.”

Michael D. Silverman, the executive director of the Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund, which filed the complaint on the Mathises’ behalf, hailed the decision as a momentous victory and hoped it would sway how other school districts treated transgender students.

According to the group, 17 states and the District of Columbia offer some form of legal protections for transgender people. And the issue of how schools treat transgender students has grown especially prominent in recent years.

“This is the first ruling in the nation that holds that transgender students be allowed to use bathrooms that match who they are,” he said. “There are thousands of families like the Mathises who are feeling relieved and vindicated that the commission ruled that Coy is a girl just like any other girl.”

A lawyer for the school district did not respond to requests for comment. The school district had argued it acted reasonably in the dispute, saying Coy was permitted to wear girls’ clothing to school and was referred to as female.

The Mathises have since moved to Aurora, Colo., and plan to enroll Coy in school there.

“We knew that this was discrimination. So it was validating to get the state to say ‘Yes, it is very clearly harassment,’ and they were doing something they shouldn’t have been doing,” said Kathryn Mathis, Coy’s mother.

“When I told Coy we won, she got this giant smile and her eyes bugged out. She said, ‘So I can go to school and make friends?’ ”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/us/agency-says-district-discriminated-against-transgender-student.html?_r=0

[Nobexliberty]

I want to be a bird.

[Petar]

I want to be a bird.

What a coincidence, I want to be a 6 year old transexual.

[kathy88]

I want to choke that kids' parents.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

i want to be a man and a woman at the same time


But the state’s ruling went even further, saying that evolving research on transgender development showed that “compartmentalizing a child as a boy or a girl solely based on their visible anatomy, is a simplistic approach to a difficult and complex issue.”

Guess we need P.C. bathrooms now
Boys = Dick Sign
Girls = Vagina Sign

[tod evans]

"Just-Us" at it's finest.........

Is it okay to string up the lawyers yet?

[Nobexliberty]

I also want to be a wolf and prey on sheep.

[tod evans]

I also want to be a wolf and prey on sheep.

So you're aspiring to become a government employee if/when you move to the US? ;)

[matt0611]

How can you be transgender at 6?

I don't care how "feminine" you are at age 6, what is problem with you using the boys bathroom?

This world is spiraling out of control.

[Nobexliberty]

So you're aspiring to become a government employee if/when you move to the US? ;) I meant eating real sheep as a wolf in the woods and norweigan fjords, but its alot like being a goverment employee.

[jkr]

a little young for gender rolls ...

[aGameOfThrones]

i want to be a man and a woman at the same time



Guess we need P.C. bathrooms now
Boys = Born with Dick Sign
Girls = Born with Vagina Sign

..

[69360]

My kid was born a bear so I am suing the school for their right to shit in the front lawn of the school.

[TonySutton]

I find it sad and ironic that some of the people in this forum who believe a parent has full control and custody over their child when it comes to forcing their sexually curious child into a heterosexual box, even to the point of sending them to reparative therapy will turn around in this thread and disparage these parents for actively exercising full control and custody over their child.

If the goal is to just fit in and be like everyone else, shouldn't you quit fighting for liberty and just be a statist? Since statists seem to be the norm.

[kathy88]

I find it sad and ironic that some of the people in this forum who believe a parent has full control and custody over their child when it comes to forcing their sexually curious child into a heterosexual box, even to the point of sending them to reparative therapy will turn around in this thread and disparage these parents for actively exercising full control and custody over their child.

If the goal is to just fit in and be like everyone else, shouldn't you quit fighting for liberty and just be a statist? Since statists seem to be the norm.

Who said anything about reparative therapy? And at 6, yes, there are certain examples you should set for your children. I want my children to be individuals, but not at the expense of others' liberties. Trying to force others to let your child use a girls' bathroom when he has a dick is violence. I don't want my 8 year old daughter coming home from school asking me why Max is in the girls' bathroom. Gender issues do not need to be discussed with an 8 year old child. I want her to remain as innocent as possible for as long as possible. She's going to have a tough enough time of it as it is growing up in this shit hole.

And I'm sick of these MSM television shows on "ABC FAMILY" shoving the GLTB agenda down everyone's throat. I don't let my kids watch, but many of their friends do, because, well... it's ABC FAMILY.

[TonySutton]

Who said anything about reparative therapy? And at 6, yes, there are certain examples you should set for your children. I want my children to be individuals, but not at the expense of others' liberties. Trying to force others to let your child use a girls' bathroom when he has a dick is violence. I don't want my 8 year old daughter coming home from school asking me why Max is in the girls' bathroom. Gender issues do not need to be discussed with an 8 year old child. I want her to remain as innocent as possible for as long as possible. She's going to have a tough enough time of it as it is growing up in this shit hole.

And I'm sick of these MSM television shows on "ABC FAMILY" shoving the GLTB agenda down everyone's throat. I don't let my kids watch, but many of their friends do, because, well... it's ABC FAMILY.

My reply would not apply to you unless you argued for parental control in the other thread. My point was to shed light on the inconsistencies in some people's comments.

[Occam's Banana]

Is it okay to string up the lawyers yet?

HOLD! ... HOOLD! ... HOOOLD! ...

[cajuncocoa]

That kid is going to need a lot of therapy one day; there is no way he has come to this "transgender" conclusion on his own.

[Nobexliberty]

My reply would not apply to you unless you argued for parental control in the other thread. My point was to shed light on the inconsistencies in some people's comments.
Believing people should have right to parental rights does NOT mean believing society should accept every form of parenting, that is alot worse.

[Origanalist]

The Mathises have since moved to Aurora, Colo., and plan to enroll Coy in school there.

It's a big enough city, I'm sure the pc crowd will love it.

I'll say it again, I doubt if this kid lives to see 21.

[Dr.3D]

My kid was born a bear so I am suing the school for their right to shit in the front lawn of the school.

Well, even if you kid thinks he is a bear they should let him take a dump on the lawn.

[VIDEODROME]

http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF037-Bear_Boy.gif

[Qdog]

Most hilarious comment:
"my 5 year old son has been crawling around on all fours and meowing like a cat all afternoon..... I'm going to respect his decisions and get him a fur coat... Then I'm going to sue the school to put a litter box in the restroom for him to use..."
LOL!

[69360]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0BHktyIyQ8

[aGameOfThrones]

Most hilarious comment:
"my 5 year old son has been crawling around on all fours and meowing like a cat all afternoon..... I'm going to respect his decisions and get him a fur coat... Then I'm going to sue the school to put a litter box in the restroom for him to use..."
LOL!


DaveRochester, NY
I suppose now when babies are born, instead of checking "male" or "female" on the birth certificate, the doctor will just have to say, "wait and see."

[jmdrake]

I find it sad and ironic that some of the people in this forum who believe a parent has full control and custody over their child when it comes to forcing their sexually curious child into a heterosexual box, even to the point of sending them to reparative therapy will turn around in this thread and disparage these parents for actively exercising full control and custody over their child.

If the goal is to just fit in and be like everyone else, shouldn't you quit fighting for liberty and just be a statist? Since statists seem to be the norm.

:rolleyes: Gender identity /= sexuality. There are men who want to be women who still want to sleep with women. And there are gays who are perfectly fine using the bathroom for the gender they were born with.

Edit: Imagine the outrage if a school system told kids who identified as gay that they had to use the bathroom of the other gender? Imagine if the Pentagon's answer to gays in the military was that gay men had to serve in female units and gay women had to serve in male units? All of the gay rights advocates would be saying "That's discrimination! Just because a man wants to sleep with a man doesn't mean he's not a man." And as for these parents exercising control, what about all of the other parents? What about the six year old little girls that don't feel comfortable going to the bathroom with a boy even if he thinks he's a girl? Why does the comfort of the "transgendered 6 year old" (I don't even really believe that's possible) the only thing that matters?

[jmdrake]

Most hilarious comment:
"my 5 year old son has been crawling around on all fours and meowing like a cat all afternoon..... I'm going to respect his decisions and get him a fur coat... Then I'm going to sue the school to put a litter box in the restroom for him to use..."
LOL!

LOL

[jllundqu]

I want to be in an online forum where people arent judged and individuals are left to make their own choices, right or wrong.

[jmdrake]

I want to be in an online forum where people arent judged and individuals are left to make their own choices, right or wrong.

Do the little girls have a right to go to the bathroom only with girls? And can someone believe that boys, straight or gay, should use the boys bathroom without being judged?

[Danan]

Do the little girls have a right to go to the bathroom only with girls? And can someone believe that boys, straight or gay, should use the boys bathroom without being judged?

I believe the property owner should decide who uses what bathroom and the government should immediately auction off all its "property". Nobody has a "right to go to the bathroom", not with girls, boys, or unicorns.

[VIDEODROME]

heh.

Makes me think of a time I went into a gas station and the bathroom had a sign saying a purchase was required before the door would be unlocked lol. I told the guy I had really had to go can I please have the key and buy a soda or something when I'm done.

That was not very convenient, but Bathroom Priviledges are up to the property owner.

(Also, it's worth considering that this virtually Pay-to-Go bathroom was cleaner than the typical free gas station bathrooms I've seen.)

[Antischism]

People here should really watch this for better understanding of transgender people. [Link] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LOY3QH_jOtE#t=5038s)

As for this 6-year-old, I remember having seen a video somewhere...
Ah! They were on Katie Couric.

http://www.katiecouric.com/on-the-show/2013/02/26/trapped-in-the-wrong-body-growing-up-transgender-2/

[jmdrake]

People here should really watch this for better understanding of transgender people. [Link] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LOY3QH_jOtE#t=5038s)

As for this 6-year-old, I remember having seen a video somewhere...
Ah! They were on Katie Couric.

http://www.katiecouric.com/on-the-show/2013/02/26/trapped-in-the-wrong-body-growing-up-transgender-2/

Right. Put some propaganda on YouTube or Katie Couric and it must be true.

[Antischism]

Right. Put some propaganda on YouTube or Katie Couric and it must be true.

What makes you believe the YouTube video is propaganda? Because you don't agree with it, or do you have specific sources that refute it?

People can draw their own conclusions on this specific case, which is why I posted the Katie Couric video so everyone can see the full story.

[economics102]

DaveRochester, NY
I suppose now when babies are born, instead of checking "male" or "female" on the birth certificate, the doctor will just have to say, "wait and see."

Yup. So much for the ultrasound...

[Origanalist]

Right. Put some propaganda on YouTube or Katie Couric and it must be true.

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4598253195953771&pid=15.1

[V3n]

What makes you believe the YouTube video is propaganda? Because you don't agree with it, or do you have specific sources that refute it?

People can draw their own conclusions on this specific case, which is why I posted the Katie Couric video so everyone can see the full story.


It was an hour & 40 minutes, hasn't been enough time to watch the whole video yet. Maybe he's seen it before?

Don't try to derail this thread with facts! :rolleyes:

[bunklocoempire]

Following my willy has lead me to great personal growth and unimaginable gain for all I hold dear. I imagine it would be the same thing if I followed my imaginary vajayjay.

I still remember what my parents told me growing up in my prepubescent years: "Forget discipline and embrace your nature, follow your willy bunk, follow your willy."

Who HASN'T experienced great things following the whims of their naughty bits? Imagine starting at age 6? You'd be a god by now. Oh ya are already? lol

:toady:

None of my business. But reeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllll llllllyyyyyyyyyyy now. :rolleyes:

Love the bear and cat riffs! LOL!

[Nobexliberty]

People here should really watch this for better understanding of transgender people. [Link] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LOY3QH_jOtE#t=5038s)

As for this 6-year-old, I remember having seen a video somewhere...
Ah! They were on Katie Couric.

http://www.katiecouric.com/on-the-show/2013/02/26/trapped-in-the-wrong-body-growing-up-transgender-2/ Feeling like something does not make you it, physics I learned at kindergarten proves it.

[heavenlyboy34]

I want to be in an online forum where people arent judged and individuals are left to make their own choices, right or wrong.
It is man's nature to judge. I suspect you'll never find a forum like that. :toady:

[Dr.3D]

Feeling like something does not make you it, physics I learned at kindergarten proves it.

So true. I remember the kid who felt like he was a bird. He jumped off of the garage roof and broke his arm. Errr or would that be wing?

[Nobexliberty]

So true. I remember the kid who felt like he was a bird. He jumped off of the garage roof and broke his arm. Errr or would that be wing? I am a ghost so now i am going to run around naked!

[jmdrake]

It was an hour & 40 minutes, hasn't been enough time to watch the whole video yet. Maybe he's seen it before?

Don't try to derail this thread with facts! :rolleyes:

Well you're just showing your ignorance. The link was 1:20 minutes into the 1:40 minute video.

[jmdrake]

What makes you believe the YouTube video is propaganda? Because you don't agree with it, or do you have specific sources that refute it?

People can draw their own conclusions on this specific case, which is why I posted the Katie Couric video so everyone can see the full story.

1) The professor mentioned a "handful of studies" talking about brain size difference without mentioning the fact that regions of the brain can grow or shrink in size based on usage.

2) The Katie link said nothing about whether tests were done on this 6 y/o to confirm if the structure of his brain.

3) When the professor talked about homosexuality being de-listed as a "sexual disorder" he failed to mention that when that happened there was no proof that it was a physical characteristic rather than a mental and that there is still no such proof.

4) People can have a particular mental state that is not part of the norm that is still not a "mental disorder."

Edit: But hey, I can post some videos of "climate" professors pushing man made global warming or "economics" professors pushing Keynesianism as the only way to go and that must make it right.

[Danan]

I am a ghost so now i am going to run around naked!

That would make you a libertarian, not a ghost. Well, at least if you also smoke pot at the same time.

[heavenlyboy34]

That would make you a libertarian, not a ghost. Well, at least if you also smoke pot at the same time.
Stereotype much? :p

[BuddyRey]

When I was six years old, I sincerely believed myself to be Superman. But when the school bell rang, I had to stop playing make-believe, or face a severe tongue-lashing by my teachers. If I had demanded that they put a telephone booth somewhere in the hallway so I could don the costume of the Man of Steel while protecting my secret identity, and then threatened to bring LAWYERS into the fray if they didn't, I would have been laughed out of class.

I'm as socially liberal as the next guy, but let's call this what it is; a little boy and his family trying to force those around him to participate in his make-believe.

[heavenlyboy34]

When I was six years old, I sincerely believed myself to be Superman. But when the school bell rang, I had to stop playing make-believe, or face a severe tongue-lashing by my teachers. If I had demanded that they put a telephone booth somewhere in the hallway so I could don the costume of the Man of Steel while protecting my secret identity, and then threatened to bring LAWYERS into the fray if they didn't, I would have been laughed out of class.

I'm as socially liberal as the next guy, but let's call this what it is; a little boy and his family trying to force those around him to participate in his make-believe.
LMAO!! :D You must've been popular on teh playgroundz! ;) :) :cool:

[VanBummel]

“This is the first ruling in the nation that holds that transgender students be allowed to use bathrooms that match who they are,” he said. “There are thousands of families like the Mathises who are feeling relieved and vindicated that the commission ruled that Coy is a girl just like any other girl.”

The same penis, testicles, testosterone, and Y chromosome as any girl.

That's another thing, even if a man dresses as a woman, has his genitals removed, gets breast implants, and pumps himself full of female hormones, he's still an XY male at the genetic level, and there's no changing that (although I'm sure someone's already working on it).

[MelissaWV]

When I was six years old, I sincerely believed myself to be Superman. But when the school bell rang, I had to stop playing make-believe, or face a severe tongue-lashing by my teachers. If I had demanded that they put a telephone booth somewhere in the hallway so I could don the costume of the Man of Steel while protecting my secret identity, and then threatened to bring LAWYERS into the fray if they didn't, I would have been laughed out of class.

I'm as socially liberal as the next guy, but let's call this what it is; a little boy and his family trying to force those around him to participate in his make-believe.

The biggest proof of this, to me, is that they had this child using the faculty bathrooms and such to avoid the conflict. Are you kidding?!? The faculty bathrooms at my schools were always the best and were largely off-limits unless you were a teacher's helper or really, really well-liked. They were like normal bathrooms at home, with the sink and the toilet and actual towels and a nice mirror over the sink and softer toilet paper. If someone told me I "had to" use that bathroom instead of the pigsty that was the public girls' room, I would jump for joy.

[bolil]

If the man wc is occupied, I use the womans... all the time, but I am careful not to splash... that would be rude.

[Origanalist]

If the man wc is occupied, I use the womans... all the time, but I am careful not to splash... that would be rude.

Loads over two pounds must be lowered by hand.

[QueenB4Liberty]

I don't see the problem with letting her use the girls bathroom. There are stalls in girls restrooms. They aren't supposed to be looking at other people's private parts, that's when the parent needs to step and say "this is a vagina, you have one. Boys have a penis. Don't look at other people's parts and don't touch." Or maybe that's just too much to ask.

[Origanalist]

I don't see the problem with letting her use the girls bathroom. There are stalls in girls restrooms. They aren't supposed to be looking at other people's private parts, that's when the parent needs to step and say "this is a vagina, you have one. Boys have a penis. Don't look at other people's parts and don't touch." Or maybe that's just too much to ask.

Actually, it's not a "her". :rolleyes:

[MelissaWV]

I don't see the problem with letting her use the girls bathroom. There are stalls in girls restrooms. They aren't supposed to be looking at other people's private parts, that's when the parent needs to step and say "this is a vagina, you have one. Boys have a penis. Don't look at other people's parts and don't touch." Or maybe that's just too much to ask.

And when the child gets a little older and it's "I want to use the girls' locker room" or the kids are wandering the halls going to the bathroom on their own... what's the worst that could happen there? There ARE stalls. I guess this little boy will sit down and pretend his penis doesn't exist, pee in the stall, and go about his business. If "there are stalls" solves it, though, then why aren't all ladies' rooms co-ed for all ages?

[Bman]

I don't have a son, but if I ever do and he decides he wants to wear dresses he'll have to wait until he no longer lives under my roof. On the other hand this is a genius idea for any teen age boy looking for access to the women's locker room.

[QueenB4Liberty]

And when the child gets a little older and it's "I want to use the girls' locker room" or the kids are wandering the halls going to the bathroom on their own... what's the worst that could happen there? There ARE stalls. I guess this little boy will sit down and pretend his penis doesn't exist, pee in the stall, and go about his business. If "there are stalls" solves it, though, then why aren't all ladies' rooms co-ed for all ages?

Maybe by the time she's old enough to hit puberty she can get sexual reassignment surgery. Or she won't take PE, I hear that isn't a requirement in schools anymore. Or people could just mind their own business? Maybe this country will be more tolerant in a few years.

[jclay2]

What the hell was this kid exposed to? And what gives with the story reference to him as a "her"?

[Origanalist]

What the hell was this kid exposed to? And what gives with the story reference to him as a "her"?

Lunacy, on both counts.

[aGameOfThrones]

Maybe by the time she's old enough to hit puberty she can get sexual reassignment surgery. Or she won't take PE, I hear that isn't a requirement in schools anymore. Or people could just mind their own business? Maybe this country will be more tolerant in a few years.


..

[nobody's_hero]

What the hell was this kid exposed to? And what gives with the story reference to him as a "her"?

Yeah that made me a bit nauseous. There are certain things that are universal truths and it's long been held that having a penis makes you a male and having a vagina makes you a female.

I wonder if the family will sue to have urinals installed in the girl's bathrooms just in case he/she/it doesn't want to sit down to piss. I for one think women have it hard. If I go to a convenience store it doesn't matter how bad I have to shit you'll never see me sitting down on a toilet that I don't own.

[rev1689]

What the hell was this kid exposed to? And what gives with the story reference to him as a "her"?

The story is actually typical of a growing trend in journalism; when discussing gender identity, it has become common for many reporters to use pronouns that address individuals from their own preferred point of view, even if it isn't anatomically correct. :rolleyes:

[Dr.3D]

Yeah that made me a bit nauseous. There are certain things that are universal truths and it's long been held that having a penis makes you a male and having a vagina makes you a female.

I wonder if the family will sue to have urinals installed in the girl's bathrooms just in case he/she/it doesn't want to sit down to piss. I for one think women have it hard. If I go to a convenience store it doesn't matter how bad I have to shit you'll never see me sitting down on a toilet that I don't own.
Even if you are suffering from a case of the dreaded mud butt?

[heavenlyboy34]

This thread reminds me more and more of this scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c

[BamaAla]

Maybe by the time she's old enough to hit puberty she can get sexual reassignment surgery. Or she won't take PE, I hear that isn't a requirement in schools anymore. Or people could just mind their own business? Maybe this country will be more tolerant in a few years.

So those who disagree with you are intolerant? Might as well play the race card too.

[QuickZ06]

If I go to a convenience store it doesn't matter how bad I have to shit you'll never see me sitting down on a toilet that I don't own.

You gotta hover bro!

[nobody's_hero]

Even if you are suffering from a case of the dreaded mud butt?

I'd have to flip a coin. Risk soiling my britches or sitting on someone else's dried piss, lol.

[MelissaWV]

Maybe by the time she's old enough to hit puberty she can get sexual reassignment surgery. Or she won't take PE, I hear that isn't a requirement in schools anymore. Or people could just mind their own business? Maybe this country will be more tolerant in a few years.

Yes, we can only pray this child will have the opportunity to have their penis turned inside-out by the time they hit puberty.

I have friends of all sorts, seriously, but this is about 1000 steps too far in the wrong direction.

[QueenB4Liberty]

Yes, we can only pray this child will have the opportunity to have their penis turned inside-out by the time they hit puberty.

I have friends of all sorts, seriously, but this is about 1000 steps too far in the wrong direction.

It's their choice. It isn't yours. Whatever happened to "letting people be as long as they aren't harming anyone?"

[MelissaWV]

It's their choice. It isn't yours. Whatever happened to "letting people be as long as they aren't harming anyone?"

It isn't the child's choice to alter themselves physically in middle school.

Anyhow, that is just something you were adding to it. My question went unanswered. If stalls provide sufficient privacy, why are there separate restrooms for adults?

[QueenB4Liberty]

It isn't the child's choice to alter themselves physically in middle school.

Anyhow, that is just something you were adding to it. My question went unanswered. If stalls provide sufficient privacy, why are there separate restrooms for adults?

If they go through enough psychological evaluations to make sure it's what they really want to do, they should be able to make the choice when they go through puberty.

Why are there separate restrooms for anyone? That's a silly question.

[MelissaWV]

If they go through enough psychological evaluations to make sure it's what they really want to do, they should be able to make the choice when they go through puberty.

Why are there separate restrooms for anyone? That's a silly question.

It apparently isn't, as per your earlier post, people should be mature enough not to look and not to touch. If you trust children to do that, why not adults? For some reason I don't see a movement to make all bathrooms unisex in public places gaining much traction.

[bolil]

It apparently isn't, as per your earlier post, people should be mature enough not to look and not to touch. If you trust children to do that, why not adults? For some reason I don't see a movement to make all bathrooms unisex in public places gaining much traction.

Well, because they already are. I use women's bathrooms when there is no waiting for the mens. Of course, when I do so, I pay particular care to my aim and cleanup.

[tod evans]

If they go through enough psychological evaluations to make sure it's what they really want to do, they should be able to make the choice when they go through puberty.


WTF are you blathering about?

Children electing to have psychological evaluations for gender reassignment surgery at puberty..

I'll never advocate for more laws and won't here either but just the fact that you'd suggest, let alone entertain such an idea repulses me.

[Origanalist]

WTF are you blathering about?

Children electing to have psychological evaluations for gender reassignment surgery at puberty..

I'll never advocate for more laws and won't here either but just the fact that you'd suggest, let alone entertain such an idea repulses me.

My turn to be out of rep. Crazy person is crazy.

[KingRobbStark]

Everything is relative, except for dicks and vaginas. Those are in way related, but they do complement each other.

[QueenB4Liberty]

WTF are you blathering about?

Children electing to have psychological evaluations for gender reassignment surgery at puberty..

I'll never advocate for more laws and won't here either but just the fact that you'd suggest, let alone entertain such an idea repulses me.

If they know they are that unhappy with their body, why not let them make the change before their body becomes physically and emotionally with the hormonal changes more for them to bear? Rather them just kill themselves because they are so depressed? If you think first graders are cruel you should look at high schoolers. If the person makes the change before they have to deal with the added pressure of high school, who are you to stop them? I forget not everyone here is a libertarian. I'm not talking about 6 year olds having sexual reassignment surgery. This is a huge deal, and everyone that under goes it has to go through extensive psychological therapy so they make sure they understand every consequence.

[bolil]

no six year old I've ever met is developed enough to consent to a thing like gender modification surgery. Sorry. Their parents granting their consent is also insufficient... that being said, what ever, you want to cut off one boys penis and sew it on to a girl go for it... just don't expect me to treat you with respect should I find out and identify you in my restaurant. Expect to be shown to door, it closes fast so don't let it hit you on the ass.

Six years old? Just old enough to be in the claws of state schools, I wonder if that has anything to do with it. As soon as a person shows the necessary understanding for consent I don't care if they cut off their arms for another pair of legs and 'woof'.

No six year old in the history of man, past or future, has this capability. I know, I know, symphonies at seven... A symphony isn't a irreversible procedure that involves irreversible, and I would bet physically toxic, hormone therapy.

[QueenB4Liberty]

It apparently isn't, as per your earlier post, people should be mature enough not to look and not to touch. If you trust children to do that, why not adults? For some reason I don't see a movement to make all bathrooms unisex in public places gaining much traction.

Ok yeah people of all ages should look and not touch. That's quite obvious. I never said we should have unisex bathrooms in public places. But at the same time, I'm not going in and looking at people doing their business either. It's a private matter. If someone who looks like a girl is in the restroom with me, I don't get upset over it.

[tod evans]

No I'm not a libertarian, or republican or democrat, what I am is a parent.

There's no way in hell my kid is getting any type of gender changing surgery while under my roof.

Something else I don't subscribe to is the NAP that many here do, which leave me free and clear to vent my frustrations on anyone in proximity to my child that advocates such behavior.

Every teenager is unhappy with something at some point and there's no amount of counseling or psychotherapy that's going to take the place of growing up.

Leave the kids alone, and yes, teenagers are kids..........Let them grow up and then they can make up their own minds.

Parents who permit or advocate such nonsense are doing their kids a disservice but it's none of my business unless my kid is exposed to it. If that happens I'll stop it, no laws, no cops.




If they know they are that unhappy with their body, why not let them make the change before their body becomes physically and emotionally with the hormonal changes more for them to bear? Rather them just kill themselves because they are so depressed? If you think first graders are cruel you should look at high schoolers. If the person makes the change before they have to deal with the added pressure of high school, who are you to stop them? I forget not everyone here is a libertarian. I'm not talking about 6 year olds having sexual reassignment surgery. This is a huge deal, and everyone that under goes it has to go through extensive psychological therapy so they make sure they understand every consequence.

[bolil]

If that happens I'll stop it, no laws, no cops.

Fucking A, then I am not a parent.
Edit to remedy irrelevance.

[QueenB4Liberty]

no six year old I've ever met is developed enough to consent to a thing like gender modification surgery. Sorry. Their parents granting their consent is also insufficient... that being said, what ever, you want to cut off one boys penis and sew it on to a girl go for it... just don't expect me to treat you with respect should I find out and identify you in my restaurant. Expect to be shown to door, it closes fast so don't let it hit you on the ass.

Six years old? Just old enough to be in the claws of state schools, I wonder if that has anything to do with it. As soon as a person shows the necessary understanding for consent I don't care if they cut off their arms for another pair of legs and 'woof'.

No six year old in the history of man, past or future, has this capability. I know, I know, symphonies at seven... A symphony isn't a irreversible procedure that involves irreversible, and I would bet physically toxic, hormone therapy.

If you had bothered to read what I wrote, I said a 6 year old shouldn't have sexual reassignment surgery.

[QueenB4Liberty]

No I'm not a libertarian, or republican or democrat, what I am is a parent.

There's no way in hell my kid is getting any type of gender changing surgery while under my roof.

Something else I don't subscribe to is the NAP that many here do, which leave me free and clear to vent my frustrations on anyone in proximity to my child that advocates such behavior.

Every teenager is unhappy with something at some point and there's no amount of counseling or psychotherapy that's going to take the place of growing up.

Leave the kids alone, and yes, teenagers are kids..........Let them grow up and then they can make up their own minds.

Parents who permit or advocate such nonsense are doing their kids a disservice but it's none of my business unless my kid is exposed to it. If that happens I'll stop it, no laws, no cops.

So you would kill your kid if they were that unhappy with their body? Guess what? Bullying isn't something kids are born with. They are taught to hate.

[QueenB4Liberty]

No I'm not a libertarian, or republican or democrat, what I am is a parent.

There's no way in hell my kid is getting any type of gender changing surgery while under my roof.

Something else I don't subscribe to is the NAP that many here do, which leave me free and clear to vent my frustrations on anyone in proximity to my child that advocates such behavior.

Every teenager is unhappy with something at some point and there's no amount of counseling or psychotherapy that's going to take the place of growing up.

Leave the kids alone, and yes, teenagers are kids..........Let them grow up and then they can make up their own minds.

Parents who permit or advocate such nonsense are doing their kids a disservice but it's none of my business unless my kid is exposed to it. If that happens I'll stop it, no laws, no cops.


If you don't believe in the NAP, why are you here? Ron Paul is a true libertarian. He is the reason these forums exist. And to further the cause of liberty.

[tod evans]

So you would kill your kid if they were that unhappy with their body? Guess what? Bullying isn't something kids are born with. They are taught to hate.

You have a unique way of twisting words, grow up fruitcake.

[tod evans]

If you don't believe in the NAP, why are you here? Ron Paul is a true libertarian. He is the reason these forums exist. And to further the cause of liberty.

Oh the NAP is a good and noble idea, I just don't have that much self control.

Get half a century under your belt and if at that point you still have the patience to suffer fools you'll be a better person than I am.

[Krzysztof Lesiak]

Jeez. 6-year old transgender? What is wrong with this world? What kind of parents does this child have that would allow something like this?

[Occam's Banana]

Oh the NAP is a good and noble idea, I just don't have that much self control.

ROTFLMGDAO.

Tod has won today's internets.

And my "quote file" has a new entry.

And I must spread some rep ...

[bolil]

If you had bothered to read what I wrote, I said a 6 year old shouldn't have sexual reassignment surgery.

And if you had even done a cursory browsing of what I said you would notice you are not quoted. But, it must be about you, right? MERICA!

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.

[Ranger29860]

Lots of ill informed people on these forums who seem to want to sit up on there throne and judge those around them like they know what the hell they are talking about. There is no reason for the nasty comments in here but that is what I have come to expect from these forums of late. Thank god this is not the type of people I have been at protest or campaign events with.

[Nobexliberty]

Lots of ill informed people on these forums who seem to want to sit up on there throne and judge those around them like they know what the hell they are talking about. There is no reason for the nasty comments in here but that is what I have come to expect from these forums of late. Thank god this is not the type of people I have been at protest or campaign events with. What kind of people do you mean are judging everyone?

[Occam's Banana]

What kind of people do you mean are judging everyone?

Possibly "anyone who disagrees" with him. I just got called a Nazi in another thread - by someone who supports government-sanctioned gay marriage - for expressing the basis of my belief that government shouldn't sanction marriages of any kind.

[Nobexliberty]

Possibly "anyone who disagrees" with him. I just got called a Nazi in another thread - by someone who supports government-sanctioned gay marriage - for expressing the basis of my belief that government shouldn't sanction marriages of any kind. Modern politics 101: If you don't agree with the other guy, HITLER!!! Political debates should about the issue and not personal attacks. Shame on personal attacks! Anyway we should get back to the topic.

[Petar]

http://ewgreenlee.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/ken-doll.jpg

[MelissaWV]

If you had bothered to read what I wrote, I said a 6 year old shouldn't have sexual reassignment surgery.

No, you said they could wait until puberty which is, for some folks, just a scant few years after age six.


Lots of ill informed people on these forums who seem to want to sit up on there throne and judge those around them like they know what the hell they are talking about. There is no reason for the nasty comments in here but that is what I have come to expect from these forums of late. Thank god this is not the type of people I have been at protest or campaign events with.

Without examples, your post is pretty pointless. I don't have a problem with stating that a child that's just hit puberty is not up to consenting to a very complicated series of medical procedures mentally, not to mention physically (as the hormonal roller coaster atop their normal puberty-driven changes is just going to make things that much worse).


Converting male to female anatomy requires removal of the penis, reshaping genital tissue to appear more female, and constructing a vagina. A vagina can be successfully formed from a skin graft or an isolated loop of intestine. ... Preparation for gender reassignment surgery includes a period of several years of hormonal treatment to change the body contours, vocal pitch, patterns of facial and body hair, etc. to those of the other sex. As the patient's body and voice begin to change, he or she is also asked to practice dressing and acting as a member of that sex.

There is some controversy as of the early 2000s regarding the appropriateness of performing gender reassignment surgery on adolescents, as opposed to either infants or older adults, on the grounds that teenagers are often uncertain about many aspects of their sexuality. The recent case of a thirteen-year-old girl who requested gender reassignment surgery in Australia reflects the intensity of this controversy among surgeons as well as members of the general public. ... "[These patients] had much the same problems with relationships, work, and emotions as before. The hope that they would emerge now from their emotional difficulties to flourish psychologically had not been fulfilled."

In spite of all of that, no, I'm not lobbying for some kind of law to stop it. I just think the whole thing is dumb.

[VanBummel]

This is the world we live in.

http://i.imgur.com/Bv7LLnb.png

[tod evans]

This is the world we live in.


Not my world!

[QueenB4Liberty]

And if you had even done a cursory browsing of what I said you would notice you are not quoted. But, it must be about you, right? MERICA!

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.


You didn't directly, no. But I was the only one who was talking about that in prior posts. Maybe responding would've been a better word.

[QueenB4Liberty]

No, you said they could wait until puberty which is, for some folks, just a scant few years after age six.



Without examples, your post is pretty pointless. I don't have a problem with stating that a child that's just hit puberty is not up to consenting to a very complicated series of medical procedures mentally, not to mention physically (as the hormonal roller coaster atop their normal puberty-driven changes is just going to make things that much worse).



In spite of all of that, no, I'm not lobbying for some kind of law to stop it. I just think the whole thing is dumb.

The whole point of the extensive psychological therapy is to ensure the child is able to fully understand all of the ramifications of the surgery. I'm saying when they hit puberty, their body is only beginning to change. Would you rather they wait until they are an adult and then have to go through more hormonal changes even though they were sure they wanted the change years ago? That's fine, it just seems unnecessary.