PDA

View Full Version : Michael Hastings Was Running From Feds.




whippoorwill
06-22-2013, 05:09 PM
Michael Hastings was the man who caused General Stanley McChrystal to lose his job.

"Michael Hastings Sent Email About FBI Probe Hours Before Death"..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/22/michael-hastings-email_n_3484118.html

"Michael Hastings' Takedown Of Stanley McChrystal Is Filled With Insights That Will Be Relevant For Years"
http://www.businessinsider.com/michael-hastings-on-stanley-mcchrystal-2013-6


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmVC3ywLODA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmVC3ywLODA

Working Poor
06-22-2013, 06:26 PM
I felt like something like this would come out regarding his death.

pacelli
06-22-2013, 09:13 PM
how much ya wanna bet that he was driving one of those fly-by-wire cars?

Anybody know the model number of the mercedes he was driving?

phill4paul
06-22-2013, 09:25 PM
how much ya wanna bet that he was driving one of those fly-by-wire cars?

Anybody know the model number of the mercedes he was driving?

My thought from the outset.

bolil
06-22-2013, 09:27 PM
Nope, safety feature.

angelatc
06-22-2013, 09:58 PM
If he were running from someone, you'd think that the drivers of the cars he blew past would have seen someone following him.

KEEF
06-22-2013, 10:05 PM
MercedesSLK crash at 135 mph... notice no flames.
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/articles/images/highslk_20051028_001.jpg
...and then there is Hastings' car, a fiery inferno.
http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/v2_article_large/public/2013/06/19/fireycrash.jpg

Hmmm?

Oh wait, the government says it was a high speed accident and nothing else... WHAT WAS I THINKING? ;)

angelatc
06-22-2013, 10:06 PM
In the original thread, ZippyJuan posted quite a few pictures and videos of flaming, wrecked Mercedes.

Brian4Liberty
06-22-2013, 10:14 PM
If he were running from someone, you'd think that the drivers of the cars he blew past would have seen someone following him.

Yeah, that would mean no one was in "hot pursuit". If the witnesses are real, of course.

pacelli
06-22-2013, 11:09 PM
If he were running from someone, you'd think that the drivers of the cars he blew past would have seen someone following him.

A drone without lights at 4:30am..... possible? FBI has already admitted they have been using them in the US. They also admitted there were no actual rules yet.


Still, Mueller said the drone program “is very narrowly focused on particularized cases and particularized leads.”

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/fbi-drones/

UWDude
06-23-2013, 02:35 AM
Hastings in Interview during Polk awards: "I don't drink."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QZ3aGCqo_w

Start at about 38:15, he says "I , I didn't drink with them. I don't drink, actually."

Just keep that in your pocket next time someone wants to insinuate he was a hard partier and heavy drinker. He used to be, in his youth.

It's so easy to assume he was just being drunks stupid and crashed his car, especially with that beer bottle in the shot....

devil21
06-23-2013, 03:46 PM
how much ya wanna bet that he was driving one of those fly-by-wire cars?

Anybody know the model number of the mercedes he was driving?

Based on pictures of various offerings I saw at mbusa.com, the car has wheels that appeared on S Class models. Early reports were a C Class but the wheels don't match any C Class photos that I saw but do match S Class photos.

whippoorwill
06-23-2013, 03:55 PM
Bump

devil21
06-23-2013, 04:08 PM
Doing a little deeper digging on the car model. The burnt out car is a Coupe, while S class (current model year at least) is a Sedan. I think it is a C Class after all. Probably this one:
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicles/build/class-C/model-C250C

angelatc
06-23-2013, 04:13 PM
MercedesSLK crash at 135 mph... notice no flames.
http://www.wreckedexotics.com/articles/images/highslk_20051028_001.jpg
...and then there is Hastings' car, a fiery inferno.


Hmmm?

Oh wait, the government says it was a high speed accident and nothing else... WHAT WAS I THINKING? ;)

That picture, which also has a fire truck in the background, doesn't do much to convince me that there wasn't a fire.

angelatc
06-23-2013, 04:16 PM
Hastings in Interview during Polk awards: "I don't drink."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QZ3aGCqo_w

Start at about 38:15, he says "I , I didn't drink with them. I don't drink, actually."

Just keep that in your pocket next time someone wants to insinuate he was a hard partier and heavy drinker. He used to be, in his youth.

It's so easy to assume he was just being drunks stupid and crashed his car, especially with that beer bottle in the shot....


There are also recent reports that he did indeed drink, one from as recently as January. My guess would be that he was struggling with sobriety, and fell off the wagon as people are prone to do.

UWDude
06-23-2013, 04:19 PM
There are also recent reports that he did indeed drink, one from as recently as January.


Where is this "recent report" you speak of?

Zippyjuan
06-23-2013, 04:20 PM
A drone without lights at 4:30am..... possible? FBI has already admitted they have been using them in the US. They also admitted there were no actual rules yet.



http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/fbi-drones/

If he was being chased by an "invisible" drone, how would he have seen it and thought to try to outrun it?

fearthereaperx
06-23-2013, 04:31 PM
It looks like he slammed into the fire hydrant first

Peace Piper
06-23-2013, 04:39 PM
It looks like he slammed into the fire hydrant first

what fire hydrant? There wasn't one when Google street mapped the area

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/4889/i16.png



*(I see my original thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?418686-Investigative-Journalist-Michael-Hastings-Dies-quot-It-sounded-like-a-bomb-went-off-quot) is still hidden in never never land even after a request to purge whatever offensive things it contained. Oh well. Why bother.)

UWDude
06-23-2013, 05:07 PM
Shit, the FBI is after me. I know what I'll do. I'll get really tanked, and then blast my new Mercedes all over downtown Los Angeles. That'll throw them off. Then I'll fire my gun at stop lights, while yelling, "where all da white womens at! Ma dick needs some rape action!"

Sounds like a man who is going to "lay low" to me.

fearthereaperx
06-23-2013, 05:52 PM
http://goo.gl/maps/UqeQf
http://goo.gl/maps/UqeQf

fearthereaperx
06-23-2013, 05:56 PM
what fire hydrant? There wasn't one when Google street mapped the area

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/4889/i16.png



*(I see my original thread (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?418686-Investigative-Journalist-Michael-Hastings-Dies-quot-It-sounded-like-a-bomb-went-off-quot) is still hidden in never never land even after a request to purge whatever offensive things it contained. Oh well. Why bother.)



http://goo.gl/maps/UqeQf

this is a block down the street, do you know what that is?

talkingpointes
06-23-2013, 05:58 PM
So does this confirm what everyone already knew. ROFL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

angelatc
06-23-2013, 06:00 PM
Where is this "recent report" you speak of?


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?418686-Investigative-Journalist-Michael-Hastings-Dies-quot-It-sounded-like-a-bomb-went-off-quot&p=5085229&viewfull=1#post5085229 - This post has a link to an interview where he describes himself as a recovering addict.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?418686-Investigative-Journalist-Michael-Hastings-Dies-quot-It-sounded-like-a-bomb-went-off-quot&p=5085242&viewfull=1#post5085242 - This post has a link to a story from another reporter about them drinking together in 2013.

So I have some legitimate reason to think he fell off the wagon. He wouldn't be the first person to crack under the stress of fame.

donnay
06-23-2013, 06:00 PM
There are also recent reports that he did indeed drink, one from as recently as January. My guess would be that he was struggling with sobriety, and fell off the wagon as people are prone to do.

You should cite your sources--so those of us who seek the truth can do so and debunk these typical diversions. Because that is the latest rumor, that he had a drug and alcohol problem. You must have missed the part where Hastings said he didn't drink and hasn't drank in 10 years.

UWDude
06-23-2013, 06:04 PM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?418686-Investigative-Journalist-Michael-Hastings-Dies-quot-It-sounded-like-a-bomb-went-off-quot&p=5085229&viewfull=1#post5085229 - This post has a link to an interview where he describes himself as a recovering addict.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?418686-Investigative-Journalist-Michael-Hastings-Dies-quot-It-sounded-like-a-bomb-went-off-quot&p=5085242&viewfull=1#post5085242 - This post has a link to a story from another reporter about them drinking together in 2013.


In that first post, he said he had not yet. Maybe you should read it. The first link was about how he shouldn't condemn someone else for relapsing just because Hastings himself had not had a drink since he was 19.

The second link was written after the accident, which is suspicious, and says "we got really drunk". Really? How drunk? was he drinking with this reporter? Because many people keep saying Hastings was drinking with people, when he wasn't. Hastings has time and time again claimed he has not touched alcohol since he was 19.


even so, why would Hastings tell wikileaks "I'm being followed by the FBI, I'm going to lay low" and then go out and drive at high speeds through downtown LA a couple hours later? Yeah, the best way to avoid the law is to speed notoriously through LA.

Is that how a rational person "lays low"? Is that how the paranoid "lay low"? Bullshit!


So I have some legitimate reason to think he fell off the wagon. He wouldn't be the first person to crack under the stress of fame.

He went through his girlfriend being killed in Bagdhad, and did not start drinking again. He followed tons of missions in Iraq and Afghanistan, and did not take up drinking again.

Why do you keep clinging to the notion he decided to get drunk and speed like crazy to lay low? Why do you believe that this is the more likely explanation than him being killed, considering the circumstances?

angelatc
06-23-2013, 06:26 PM
Why do you keep clinging to the notion he decided to get drunk and speed like crazy to lay low? Why do you believe that this is the more likely explanation than him being killed, considering the circumstances?

He wouldn't be the first person in the world to start drinking to try to cope with stress.

As to why I am making the case that perhaps the accident is just an accident? Occam's Razor - it's simply far more likely that he died in a drunken car accident than it is that he died by a missile fired from a drone unseen by anybody in one of the most populated cities in the nation.

UWDude
06-23-2013, 06:31 PM
Occam's Razor -

Occam's Razor does not apply to war or geopolitics, politics, office politics, or most human behavior.



it is that he died by a missile fired from a drone unseen by anybody in one of the most populated cities in the nation.

Another strawman from the queen of strawmen.


He wouldn't be the first person in the world to start drinking to try to cope with stress.


He went through his girlfriend being killed in Bagdhad, and did not start drinking again. He followed tons of missions in Iraq and Afghanistan, and did not take up drinking again.

angelatc
06-23-2013, 06:33 PM
Occam's Razor does not apply to war or geopolitics, politics, office politics, or most human behavior.



Another strawman from the queen of strawmen.

You just can't refrain from personal attacks, can you?

UWDude
06-23-2013, 06:36 PM
You just can't refrain from personal attacks, can you?

It's not personal if it is true. It was a strawman, and strawmen is what you are best at. You use strawmen all the time, more than anybody else on these boards. You are the queen of strawmen.

kathy88
06-23-2013, 06:40 PM
I haven't had a drink in ten years. It's very unusual for alcoholics to resume drinking with thatuch sobriety under their belts. Especially in light of his remaining sober through several awful tragedies.

angelatc
06-23-2013, 06:42 PM
It's not personal if it is true. It was a strawman, and strawmen is what you are best at. You use strawmen all the time, more than anybody else on these boards. You are the queen of strawmen.

Occam's Razor as it applies to probablity theory supports my contention that it is far more likely he was drinking and driving than he was killed by a missile.

Since you've decided to make yourself the king of logic, identify the logical fallacy in the following:

A.He went through his girlfriend being killed in Bagdhad, and did not start drinking again.
B, He followed tons of missions in Iraq and Afghanistan, and did not take up drinking again.
C. Therefore, he was absolutely not drinking the night he died.

Peace Piper
06-23-2013, 06:42 PM
In that first post, he said he had not yet. Maybe you should read it. The first link was about how he shouldn't condemn someone else for relapsing just because Hastings himself had not had a drink since he was 19.

The second link was written after the accident, which is suspicious, and says "we got really drunk". Really? How drunk? was he drinking with this reporter? Because many people keep saying Hastings was drinking with people, when he wasn't. Hastings has time and time again claimed he has not touched alcohol since he was 19.


Many skeptics won't be skeptical about that.



even so, why would Hastings tell wikileaks "I'm being followed by the FBI, I'm going to lay low" and then go out and drive at high speeds through downtown LA a couple hours later? Yeah, the best way to avoid the law is to speed notoriously through LA.

Is that how a rational person "lays low"? Is that how the paranoid "lay low"? Bullshit!

Bullshit is Right.



He went through his girlfriend being killed in Bagdhad, and did not start drinking again. He followed tons of missions in Iraq and Afghanistan, and did not take up drinking again.

Why do you keep clinging to the notion he decided to get drunk and speed like crazy to lay low? Why do you believe that this is the more likely explanation than him being killed, considering the circumstances?

Why does this all mighty skepticism only work one way? Funny, that.

Excellent post.

angelatc
06-23-2013, 06:42 PM
I haven't had a drink in ten years. It's very unusual for alcoholics to resume drinking with thatuch sobriety under their belts. Especially in light of his remaining sober through several awful tragedies.


Except that there is at least one documented case of him drinking in 2013, I would agree with you.

UWDude
06-23-2013, 06:43 PM
Occam's Razor as it applies to probablity theory supports my contention that it is far more likely he was drinking and driving than he was killed by a missile.

than he was killed by a missile.

than he was killed by a missile.

than he was killed by a missile.

than he was killed by a missile.


The queen of strawmen strikes again!


Except that there is at least one documented case of him drinking in 2013, I would agree with you.

"documented" By a guy, after Hastings died. And it would not be the first time people assumed Hastings was drinking when he wasn't.

Peace Piper
06-23-2013, 06:48 PM
Since you've decided to make yourself the king of logic, identify the logical fallacy in the following:


There you go again.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4y18pRMgb1qi8jcb.jpg

Love it when an order follows the straw man. whatever you did there. Nitpicker.(edit)

donnay
06-23-2013, 06:50 PM
He wouldn't be the first person in the world to start drinking to try to cope with stress.

As to why I am making the case that perhaps the accident is just an accident? Occam's Razor - it's simply far more likely that he died in a drunken car accident than it is that he died by a missile fired from a drone unseen by anybody in one of the most populated cities in the nation.


I don't think it was a drone attack, I think it was a bomb. Clearly the fact that his engine was found 50 to 60 years from the crash scene. A few witnesses said that the car exploded before making impact with the palm tree. One witnessed stated the car "jack-knifed," which sounds to me like an explosion to me.

The old Mafia were good about doing that to their enemies or anyone they wanted to silence.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k9bqqLUge0

@1:01 classic car bomb explosion

angelatc
06-23-2013, 06:57 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/michael-hastings-press-bubble-campaign-trail_n_3467257.html

Here's another: "We chatted over drinks."

A myriad of his colleagues have written lovely farewell pieces, and I don't remember seeing any of them mention that he was sober. (I saw them mention he was sober when he was embedded.)

Fame is a bitch, and humility is a part of staying sober. It isn't hard for me to imagine someone as young as he was getting full of himself when success hit him like a freight train.

And even if he wasn't drunk - even if his new high of choice was speed - driving that fast is hard. People die every day in accidents where alcohol isn't a factor.

angelatc
06-23-2013, 06:59 PM
than he was killed by a missile.

than he was killed by a missile.

than he was killed by a missile.

than he was killed by a missile.


The queen of strawmen strikes again!



"documented" By a guy, after Hastings died. And it would not be the first time people assumed Hastings was drinking when he wasn't.

Maybe you missed the other thread where someone claimed they thought he was killed by a missile?

angelatc
06-23-2013, 07:00 PM
I don't think it was a drone attack, I think it was a bomb. Clearly the fact that his engine was found 50 to 60 years from the crash scene. A few witnesses said that the car exploded before making impact with the palm tree. One witnessed stated the car "jack-knifed," which sounds to me like an explosion to me.

The old Mafia were good about doing that to their enemies or anyone they wanted to silence.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k9bqqLUge0

@1:01 classic car bomb explosion


If it was a bomb, I would expect the car to show some signs of exploding from the inside out.

fearthereaperx
06-23-2013, 07:00 PM
I don't think it was a drone attack, I think it was a bomb. Clearly the fact that his engine was found 50 to 60 years from the crash scene. A few witnesses said that the car exploded before making impact with the palm tree. One witnessed stated the car "jack-knifed," which sounds to me like an explosion to me.

The old Mafia were good about doing that to their enemies or anyone they wanted to silence.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k9bqqLUge0

@1:01 classic car bomb explosion

Video shows him speeding and running a red light. Witnesses saw him going very fast as well. It's more probable that his car got tampered with electronically, than using a bomb or a missile to take him out.

angelatc
06-23-2013, 07:02 PM
There you go again.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4y18pRMgb1qi8jcb.jpg

Love it when an order follows the straw man.

Do you need a hint?

UWDude
06-23-2013, 07:05 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/michael-hastings-press-bubble-campaign-trail_n_3467257.html

Here's another: "We chatted over drinks."



that was in 2008. Yet in another article Hastings wrote, (and you linked to) in 2009, Hastings said he had been clean since he was 19. So maybe, once again, one person was drinking, and the other was not. Just like Hastings had to explain, although McChrystal thought Hastings was drinking with them, he never was.


Maybe you missed the other thread where someone claimed they thought he was killed by a missile?

It doesn't matter. I'm not arguing that, and most of us here aren't arguing that. Furthermore, YOU aren't arguing that you believe it was a hit, but not a missile. You are arguing you think he was drunk and fucked up. That is what you are arguing. So trotting out the missile thing is a strawman. If you want to argue it wasn't a missile, argue it with people who claim it was, not with the majority of us who are saying this accident stinks.

Zippyjuan
06-23-2013, 07:10 PM
It is speculation as to why he was going fast but several witnesses verified he was going fast (and now a video seems to support that as well) and hit a tree and the car burst into flames. If it was a bomb, the bomb was maybe hidden in the tree?

One estimate based on how far the engine flew is that the car was going at least 60mph when it hit the tree.
http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2013/06/michael_hastings_crash_engine_flew_speeding_recove ry.php


LAPD traffic investigators found the motor of the late-model Mercedes-Benz C250 coupe involved in the accident about 100 feet away from the car, the Weekly has learned, a clue that would indicate the vehicle was traveling at more than 60 miles an hour when it apparently veered out of control and struck a palm tree:


That's according to the expert estimation of Harry B. Ryon, a former LAPD officer who now runs his own private accident-investigation firm in Scottsdale, Ariz.

The engine's location is evidence that the driver "was hauling Irish ass and lost control," Ryon told us:


With the engine torn off, the gas lines would rupture and it would start a fire.

UWDude
06-23-2013, 07:12 PM
It is speculation as to why he was going fast but several witnesses verified he was going fast (and now a video seems to support that as well) and hit a tree and the car burst into flames. If it was a bomb, the bomb was maybe hidden in the tree?

Stop being dumb.

angelatc
06-23-2013, 07:13 PM
that was in 2008. Yet in another article Hastings wrote, (and you linked to) in 2009, Hastings said he had been clean since he was 19. So maybe, once again, one person was drinking, and the other was not. Just like Hastings had to explain, although McChrystal thought Hastings was drinking with them, he never was.


See my point about logic above



It doesn't matter. I'm not arguing that, and most of us here aren't arguing that. Furthermore, YOU aren't arguing that you believe it was a hit, but not a missile. You are arguing you think he was drunk and fucked up. That is what you are arguing.

But that means it isn't a strawman. It's hyperbole.

Just to clarify, I'm not arguing that he was drunk and fucked up. I have no idea if he was drunk. I am arguing that it is far more likely that he died in a simple car accident than some government operatives took him out.

If the government wanted to kill him, all they would need to do would be to blacklist him. He wouldn't be able to get an interview or a job anywhere. That's happened before. I'm drawing a blank on the name of the guy....but they trashed him and ostracized him - he never landed a major interview again.

ETA: Gary Webb - busted the CIA for trafficking in cocaine. Eventually died from a suicide. Maybe they killed him, but it didn't matter because they had already killed his spirit.

UWDude
06-23-2013, 07:17 PM
Just to clarify, I'm not arguing that he was drunk and fucked up. I have no idea if he was drunk. I am arguing that it is far more likely that he died in a simple car accident than some government operatives took him out.

But you pathetically tried to make your argument seem far more logical by saying:

"I am arguing that it is far more likely that he died in a simple car accident than he was killed by a predator drone strike".

Which is a strawman. Because you are the queen of strawmen.


If the government wanted to kill him, all they would need to do would be to blacklist him. He wouldn't be able to get an interview or a job anywhere. That's happened before. I'm drawing a blank on the name of the guy....but they trashed him and ostracized him - he never landed a major interview again.

1) simply not true. character assassination does not always work.
2) if the government was killing him to silence him for what he already knew, blacklisting him would not be able to stop that.


See my point about logic above

No. your source said Hastings drank with him in 2008. (or "talked over drinks"). Hastings himself said he had been sober since age 19, and he said that in 2009, a year after your source claimed to have drank with him. Somebody is recalling wrong.

TheGrinch
06-23-2013, 07:24 PM
See my point about logic above

But that means it isn't a strawman. It's hyperbole.

Just to clarify, I'm not arguing that he was drunk and fucked up. I have no idea if he was drunk. I am arguing that it is far more likely that he died in a simple car accident than some government operatives took him out.

If the government wanted to kill him, all they would need to do would be to blacklist him. He wouldn't be able to get an interview or a job anywhere. That's happened before. I'm drawing a blank on the name of the guy....but they trashed him and ostracized him - he never landed a major interview again.

Yes, you're speculating that it was a simple car accident, just like some are speculating it might have been more than that, since afterall the guy knew he was being investigated by the FBI about knowledge he had, and this is far from the first person who claimed to have knowledge to suddenly have an "unfortunate accident" or "commit suicide" mysteriously (see the guy who they pinned the Anthrax attacks on for one, Breitbart for another, and it goes on and on and on).

The difference is, you're the one coming into these threads swinging your metaphorical dick and ruining threads because some disagree about what might have happened. I don't know how that makes you think you're somehow better. Quite the opposite.

Would you like me to poke holes in your logic too, because different circumstances call for different methods. What would blacklisting do to keep this guy from leaking info about a well-known scandal? Why would the FBI be investigating him, if they weren't concerned about what he knew? Your theories are no more founded than the ones you're opposing.

We don't know what happened, but you're really the only one who's so convinced that they're wrong that you're willing to put down other people for their speculation.

How about Ocham's razor, which suggests that if someone who has damning information about powerful people goes missing, it's often not a conicidence. There's a rich history of them being shut up by any means necessary (and there are plnety of them nowadays, while making it look like an accident).

I for one will always side with those with a healthy skepticism, over those who seem so sure that there's "nothing to see here" that they ostracize the skeptics for even doubting it.

angelatc
06-23-2013, 07:25 PM
No. your source said Hastings drank with him in 2008. (or "talked over drinks"). Hastings himself said he had been sober since age 19, and he said that in 2009, a year after your source claimed to have drank with him. Somebody is recalling wrong.

Or someone was lying.

angelatc
06-23-2013, 07:28 PM
Yes, you're speculating that it was a simple car accident, just like some are speculating it might have been more than that, since afterall the guy knew he was being investigated by the FBI about knowledge he had, and this is far from the first person who claimed to have knowledge to suddenly have an "unfortunate accident" or "commit suicide" mysteriously (see the guy who they pinned the Anthrax attacks on for one, Breitbart for another, and it goes on and on and on).

The difference is, you're the one coming into these threads swinging your metaphorical dick and ruining threads because some disagree about what might have happened.

I'm ruining threads by injecting reality into fiction?

(And forgive me, but Breitbart? We spent his entire career insisting he was one of "them!")

UWDude
06-23-2013, 07:29 PM
But that means it isn't a strawman. It's hyperbole.


It was not hyperbole, it was a strawman. Get your logical fallacies straight.

donnay
06-23-2013, 07:29 PM
If it was a bomb, I would expect the car to show some signs of exploding from the inside out.

What's your take on the motor being 50 to 60 yards from the crash scene? If he was going at such a high speed where are the skid marks in the road, and why wasn't the palm tree destroyed?

UWDude
06-23-2013, 07:30 PM
Or someone was lying.

Or "talking over drinks" doesn't mean both people were drinking.

angelatc
06-23-2013, 07:33 PM
But you pathetically tried to make your argument seem far more logical by saying:

"I am arguing that it is far more likely that he died in a simple car accident than he was killed by a predator drone strike".

Which is a strawman. Because you are the queen of strawmen.

A strawman is a misrepresentation of an opposing position. Are you saying that no missiles, drones, remote control or bombs have been presented as more likely than a simple auto accident?

Lumping a few of them together is hyperbole.

Zippyjuan
06-23-2013, 07:35 PM
What's your take on the motor being 50 to 60 yards from the crash scene? If he was going at such a high speed where are the skid marks in the road, and why wasn't the palm tree destroyed?

I haven't see if there were skid marks or not- if the car did not try to stop before hitting the palm, there might not have been any. One expert estimated that the distance of the engine from the car suggests it was travelling at least 60 miles an hour at impact.

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2013/06/michael_hastings_crash_engine_flew_speeding_recove ry.php


LAPD traffic investigators found the motor of the late-model Mercedes-Benz C250 coupe involved in the accident about 100 feet away from the car, the Weekly has learned, a clue that would indicate the vehicle was traveling at more than 60 miles an hour when it apparently veered out of control and struck a palm tree:

That's according to the expert estimation of Harry B. Ryon, a former LAPD officer who now runs his own private accident-investigation firm in Scottsdale, Ariz.

The engine's location is evidence that the driver "was hauling Irish ass and lost control," Ryon told us:


With the engine torn off, the gas lines would rupture and it would start a fire.

The vehicle was traveling south on Highland Avenue just past Melrose Avenue, where Hollywood turns into Hancock Park, when it crashed and burst into flames, according to LAPD traffic investigators.

TV news footage shows that the car hit a palm tree in the median, not far from Mario Batali's famed Mozza restaurants.

Ryon said it was possible to achieve freeway speeds on that stretch of Highland.

Chunk taken out of the palm tree by the car (can't tell how big it is in this picture:
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1376540.1371644390!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/usa-journalist-carcrash.jpg

UWDude
06-23-2013, 07:36 PM
A strawman is a misrepresentation of an opposing position.

yes


Are you saying that no missiles, drones, remote control or bombs have been presented as more likely than a simple auto accident?


no



Lumping a few of them together is hyperbole.

wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

bolil
06-23-2013, 07:40 PM
Projectile engines are about as safe as lead cups.

60 yards? Can you imagine what that would do to a crowd of pedestrians? I know, I've already said all this... but still. Hastings will be forgotten soon enough, rest in peace fellow human. I hope the mystery is amazing.

angelatc
06-23-2013, 07:40 PM
Or "talking over drinks" doesn't mean both people were drinking.

Sure, that occurred to me. But it also occurred to me that if I were writing that, it would have been the perfect segue to mention his sobriety. We won't know if he was drinking or not until the toxicology report comes back.

But rest assured if it comes back that he wasn't drinking, I won't be here insisting that the coroner is part of some conspiracy. I'll just assume he was driving too fast and lost control of his car.

(However, I also suspect that if the coroner's report shows that he was drinking, then obviously the coroner is in on it.)

angelatc
06-23-2013, 07:41 PM
wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

" is the use of exaggeration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaggeration) as a rhetorical device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_device)" - hyperbolic could be tattooed on my forehead.

donnay
06-23-2013, 07:44 PM
I haven't see if there were skid marks or not- if the car did not try to stop before hitting the palm, there might not have been any. One expert estimated that the distance of the engine from the car suggests it was travelling at least 60 miles an hour at impact.

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2013/06/michael_hastings_crash_engine_flew_speeding_recove ry.php


Yet the Palm Tree with shallow roots stood like a rock after that impact?

UWDude
06-23-2013, 07:45 PM
" is the use of exaggeration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaggeration) as a rhetorical device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_device)" - that could be tattooed on my forehead.

still different from a strawman, which is clearly what you were doing when trying to say "occams razor says it is more likely an accident than a drone strike in an urban area with tons of witnesses."

No shit. I wasn't even saying it was a drone strike. And you weren't arguing with those who claimed it was a drone strike, you were arguing with me.

What would Occam's Razor say was more likely when a woman, who was caught cheating on her husband two weeks earlier, was found in an alley with her throat slit and her money stolen.

Was it a random mugging, or a set-up by her husband?

That is why Occam's Razor does not apply to human behavior.

angelatc
06-23-2013, 07:46 PM
still different from a strawman, which is clearly what you were doing when trying to say "occams razor says it is more likely an accident than a drone strike in an urban area with tons of witnesses."

No shit. I wasn't even saying it was a drone strike.

What would Occam's Razor say was more likley when a woman, who was caught cheating on her husband two weeks earlier, was found in an alley with her throat slit and her money stolen.

Was it a random mugging, or a set-up by her husband?

That is why Occam's Razor does not apply to human behavior.


Do you have a source for that? I've never encountered that before.

Zippyjuan
06-23-2013, 07:59 PM
Yet the Palm Tree with shallow roots stood like a rock after that impact?

Palm trees are actually very tough. The impact was also at the base so the force was at its strongest point. If you hit it at the top of its height, it might have taken it over but that is due to leverage. They are not so easy to knock over as you might think (unless they are diseased). They are also flexible which lets them absorb forces and bend without breaking as easily.

In this accident, a woman hit several palm trees and a telephone pole. She took out the telephone pole and the trees are still standing.
http://www.ktsm.com/news/woman-crashes-palm-trees-knocks-out-power-pole


El Paso, TX (KTSM) — A woman is suspected of leaving the scene of an overnight crash in East El Paso Monday. According to a witness, the woman appeared to be intoxicated.

The crash happened about 2:15 a.m. Monday at the corner of Nolan Richardson and Willowmist, which is near Edgemere and Saul Kleinfeld.

The driver was traveling on Nolan Richardson when she somehow lost control and struck several palm trees and knocked over a power pole.

Cynthia Ortiz, a neighbor, went outside after hearing the crash.

angelatc
06-23-2013, 08:06 PM
Palm trees are actually very tough. The impact was also at the base so the force was at its strongest point. If you hit it at the top of its height, it might have taken it over but that is due to leverage. They are not so easy to knock over as you might think (unless they are diseased). They are also flexible which lets them absorb forces and bend without breaking as easily.

In this accident, a woman hit several palm trees and a telephone pole. She took out the telephone pole and the trees are still standing.
http://www.ktsm.com/news/woman-crashes-palm-trees-knocks-out-power-pole


DItto that. I lived in FLorida for 12 years, through 2 hurrricanes, and I don't remember ever seeing a palm tree that wasn't already sick come down .

dannno
06-23-2013, 08:10 PM
If he was being chased by an "invisible" drone, how would he have seen it and thought to try to outrun it?

Maybe they killed him and merely sent his car flying into a tree?

Zippyjuan
06-23-2013, 08:14 PM
Yet the Palm Tree with shallow roots stood like a rock after that impact?

Better comparison of the size of the palm to the size of his car- he wasn't going to knock that thing over:
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1376536.1371644383!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/hastings20-7-web.jpg

RDM
06-23-2013, 08:36 PM
Here's another take on the whole situation. http://jimstonefreelance.com/

angelatc
06-23-2013, 09:19 PM
Here's a link to the Twitter feed of someone who seems to be friends with Hastings. https://twitter.com/Rambobiggs

He went to the funeral, and also to Hastings' parents' house after. He is not convinced it was an accident. ETA: He's the guy who released the email.

angelatc
06-23-2013, 09:24 PM
Here's a guy who claims that Hastings was working on a story about Barret Brown. https://www.facebook.com/greenEnvSciThr/posts/935888866424793

donnay
06-23-2013, 09:29 PM
Here's another take on the whole situation. http://jimstonefreelance.com/


Definitely plausible that Loudlabs is a CIA front. I would put nothing past these criminals--nothing.

angelatc
06-23-2013, 09:29 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNY15SvCQAA0bNP.jpg:large

donnay
06-23-2013, 09:32 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNY15SvCQAA0bNP.jpg:large


http://jimstonefreelance.com/flaminwreck.jpg

Where's the street lamp?

bolil
06-23-2013, 09:34 PM
http://jimstonefreelance.com/flaminwreck.jpg

Where's the street lamp?

Given the time of day, I would say behind the cameras pov. This was certainly no accident.

bolil
06-23-2013, 09:37 PM
Fuck the palm tree. Engine flew 60 yards, lets say 60 feet. Not a strange thing? Just a safety feature? Nah, I'll not buy that brand of bull.

Zippyjuan
06-23-2013, 09:44 PM
http://jimstonefreelance.com/flaminwreck.jpg

Where's the street lamp?

There is a tree lined median down the street- the car ran into a palm in the middle of the median- the lamp post is on the side of the street- not the median island.

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/4889/i16.png

Zippyjuan
06-23-2013, 09:48 PM
Fuck the palm tree. Engine flew 60 yards, lets say 60 feet. Not a strange thing? Just a safety feature? Nah, I'll not buy that brand of bull.

It is caused by inertia. The car is forced to stop- the engine can't stop as quick and sometimes it flies out of the car.

Prefer video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMVDWs5tUY4

Amazing people survived this one.
http://www.telegram.com/article/20121113/NEWS/121119867/1246

WINCHENDON — Looking at the damage to Walter J. Moriarity’s 2012 Chrysler Touring, you’d say it was a miracle he wasn’t severely injured.

But Mr Moriarity, 29, of 217 School St., had only minor injuries this morning after his car crossed into the northbound lane on Route 140 near 156 Gardner Road and struck three other vehicles.


The engine was thrown from the car. Mr Moriarity’s two young children were in the back seat properly secured — one with a seat belt and the other in a car seat.

The car’s engine was later found in nearby woods.
http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=WT&Date=20121113&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=121119867&Ref=AR&Profile=1246&MaxW=740

donnay
06-23-2013, 10:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qQrHnP9lXIU