Plans would put women in most combat jobs including SEALS, Army Rangers

[Origanalist]

Military plans would put women in most combat jobs including SEALS, Army Rangers

WASHINGTON – Military leaders are ready to begin tearing down the remaining walls that have prevented women from holding thousands of combat and special operations jobs near the front lines.

Under details of the plans obtained by The Associated Press, women could start training as Army Rangers by mid-2015 and as Navy SEALs a year later.

The military services have mapped out a schedule that also will include reviewing and possibly changing the physical and mental standards that men and women will have to meet in order to quality for certain infantry, armor, commando and other front-line positions across the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines. Under the plans to be introduced Tuesday, there would be one common standard for men and women for each job.

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel reviewed the plans and has ordered the services to move ahead.

The move follows revelations of a startling number of sexual assaults in the armed forces. Earlier this year, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey said the sexual assaults might be linked to the longstanding ban on women serving in combat because the disparity between the roles of men and women creates separate classes of personnel -- male "warriors" versus the rest of the force.

While the sexual assault problem is more complicated than that, he said, the disparity has created a psychology that lends itself to disrespect for women.

Under the schedules military leaders delivered to Hagel, the Army will develop standards by July 2015 to allow women to train and potentially serve as Rangers, and qualified women could begin training as Navy SEALs by March 2016 if senior leaders agree. Military leaders have suggested bringing senior women from the officer and enlisted ranks into special forces units first to ensure that younger, lower-ranking women have a support system to help them get through the transition.

The Navy intends to open up its Riverine force and begin training women next month, with the goal of assigning women to the units by October. While not part of the special operations forces, the coastal Riverine squadrons do close combat and security operations in small boats. The Navy plans to have studies finished by July 2014 on allowing women to serve as SEALs, and has set October 2015 as the date when women could begin Navy boot camp with the expressed intention of becoming SEALs eventually.

U.S. Special Operations Command is coordinating the matter of what commando jobs could be opened to women, what exceptions might be requested and when the transition would take place.

The proposals leave the door open for continued exclusion of women from some jobs if research and testing find that women could not be successful in sufficient numbers. But the services would have to defend such decisions to top Pentagon leaders.

Army officials plan to complete gender-neutral standards for the Ranger course by July 2015. Army Rangers are one of the service's special operations units, but many soldiers who go through Ranger training and wear the coveted tab on their shoulders never actually serve in the 75th Ranger Regiment. To be considered a true Ranger, soldiers must serve in the regiment.

In January, then-Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and Dempsey signed an order that wiped away generations of limits on where and how women could fight for their country. At the time, they asked the services to develop plans to set the change in motion.

The decision reflects a reality driven home by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, where battle lines were blurred and women were propelled into jobs as medics, military police and intelligence officers who were sometimes attached, but not formally assigned, to battalions. So even though a woman could not serve officially as a battalion infantryman going out on patrol, she could fly a helicopter supporting the unit or be part of a team supplying medical aid if troops were injured.

Of the more than 6,700 U.S. service members who have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, about 150 have been women.

The order Panetta and Dempsey signed prohibits physical standards from being lowered simply to allow women to qualify for jobs closer to the battlefront. But the services are methodically reviewing and revising the standards for many jobs, including strength and stamina, in order to set minimum requirements for troops to meet regardless of their sex.

The military services are also working to determine the cost of opening certain jobs to women, particularly aboard a variety of Navy ships, including certain submarines, frigates, mine warfare and other smaller warships. Dozens of ships do not have adequate berthing or facilities for women to meet privacy needs, and would require design and construction changes.

Under a 1994 Pentagon policy, women were prohibited from being assigned to ground combat units below the brigade level. A brigade is roughly 3,500 troops split into several battalions of about 800 soldiers each. Historically, brigades were based farther from the front lines, and they often included top command and support staff.

Last year the military opened up about 14,500 combat positions to women, most of them in the Army, by allowing them to serve in many jobs at the battalion level. The January order lifted the last barrier to women serving in combat, but allows the services to argue to keep some jobs closed.

The bulk of the nearly 240,000 jobs currently closed to women are in the Army, including those in infantry, armor, combat engineer and artillery units that are often close to the battlefront. Similar jobs in the Marine Corps are also closed.

Army officials have laid out a rolling schedule of dates in 2015 to develop gender-neutral standards for specific jobs, beginning with July for engineers, followed by field artillery in March and the infantry and armor jobs no later than September.

Women make up about 14 percent of the 1.4 million active U.S. military personnel. More than 280,000 women have been sent to Iraq, Afghanistan or neighboring nations in support of the wars.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/18/military-plans-would-put-women-in-most-combat-jobs-including-seals-army-rangers/#ixzz2Wbhl1gOz

[QuickZ06]

Hey I was just watching GI Jane the other day. Too bad I am not for sending any woman or men into combat overseas.

[TheTexan]

Theres kitchens on the front lines?

[Carlybee]

Let the sexist comments begin....fyi I'm not for any overseas deployment but if a woman is qualified to serve so be it. Now if the men could just stop raping them. Of course they should just shoot them if they try but that's neither here nor there.

[TheTexan]

Let the sexist comments begin....fyi I'm not for any overseas deployment but if a woman is qualified to serve so be it. Now if the men could just stop raping them. Of course they should just shoot them if they try but that's neither here nor there.

Unless the woman is super burly shes not gonna be qualified. Whats gonna end up happening is that SF will lax their phys reqs so women can be "qualified"

[MelissaWV]

Unless the woman is super burly shes not gonna be qualified. Whats gonna end up happening is that SF will lax their phys reqs so women can be "qualified"

Most of the qualifications these days aren't what they used to be already. Still, I'd definitely be in full support of a system where it's about qualifications and raw data, not two or three or four standards so that they can "diversify." Few people SHOULD qualify for SF. We shouldn't even NEED it 99.99999999% of the time.

[heavenlyboy34]

Theres kitchens on the front lines?
LMAO!! :D I wonder if there are also floors in need of sweeping out there... ;)

[tod evans]

Let the sexist comments begin....fyi I'm not for any overseas deployment but if a woman is qualified to serve so be it. Now if the men could just stop raping them. Of course they should just shoot them if they try but that's neither here nor there.

Any broad that make the cut into special forces isn't likely to be raped...

[LibForestPaul]

women do not belong on the front lines, they bear children

[LibForestPaul]

violence is for males, that is why our sex is stronger, faster, and more massive.

[sluggo]

Will they all be allowed to shower together, like in Starship Troopers?

[MelissaWV]

violence is for males, that is why our sex is stronger, faster, and more massive.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AlShIpBLpHM/ScKBDSh0p9I/AAAAAAAABbM/P9IaUnBCuRE/s200/MattCollinsDCRP.jpg

[Lafayette]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_AlShIpBLpHM/ScKBDSh0p9I/AAAAAAAABbM/P9IaUnBCuRE/s200/MattCollinsDCRP.jpg

:D HAHAHA!

Thats at least a months worth of rep.

[Carlybee]

http://www.starcentralmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/sigourney-weaver-as-ripley-in-aliens-alien-aliens-8255352-800-1213.jpg

[Uriel999]

The Collins! Lmao!

But seriously his is retarded. I weigh almost 200 lbs. Now throw 80 lbs of gear on me. A lot of men would struggle to firemans carry me off the x or an distance.

Also, war is horrible enough to send our boys. Now we want to send our girls?

[BamaAla]

Better "women" than BamaAla!

[MelissaWV]

The Collins! Lmao!

But seriously his is retarded. I weigh almost 200 lbs. Now throw 80 lbs of gear on me. A lot of men would struggle to firemans carry me off the x or an distance.

Also, war is horrible enough to send our boys. Now we want to send our girls?

If people qualify, they should be up for the job. Will lots of women qualify? Hell no. Do lots of men qualify? Not really.

If you pare back the military and think about the original intentions, you get a largely defensive force. If we were actually under attack, you can bet your butt women would have to "serve."

The fact that the military gets deployed every-friggin-where at the expense of lives, money, and global good will, is another thing altogether. I wince to hear "they're coming home from Afghanistan!" because I know "they're going over to Syria!" is only a short bit away.

[TruckinMike]

The Collins! Lmao!

But seriously his is retarded. I weigh almost 200 lbs. Now throw 80 lbs of gear on me. A lot of men would struggle to firemans carry me off the x or an distance.

Also, war is horrible enough to send our boys. Now we want to send our girls?

The social homogenization of the sexes weakens cultures--->thus weakens the enemies of the global elite. Its alll apart of the Plan. Muaha ha ha

[kcchiefs6465]

Shows how morally sick as a country we have become.

[jclay2]

Have a ball GI Jane. I can't imagine how good it feels to reach "equality" and finally have the ability to die for some globalist nwo banker. Really congratulations.

[Carlybee]

The Collins! Lmao!

But seriously his is retarded. I weigh almost 200 lbs. Now throw 80 lbs of gear on me. A lot of men would struggle to firemans carry me off the x or an distance.

Also, war is horrible enough to send our boys. Now we want to send our girls?

Um we are already sending our "girls". As for some of those positions though, I don't know too many who would want to sweat it out in 120 degrees packing all that gear...bad enough the men have to do it.

[ZENemy]

Instead of coming together as a society and figuring out a way to end wars....instead we decide to send women there, wow.

[QuickZ06]

Maybe my GI Jane comment came off as sexists, I was really watching that movie and do quite enjoy it. But women have been in combat for quite some time. Read up on the women snipers out there throughout history. This is the land of equal opportunity, well unless you are sleeping with a politician. Thing is, maybe this will open up a lot of doors as far as foreign policy goes. If enough women start popping up on the tubes for KIA, maybe it will really start to hit home and people will realize what a fucking sham all these wars are. I will fight with a platoon of women who are 100% qualified, over a group of unqualified men. But the testing should be equal across the board, even for the non combat stuff as well, because everyone of them is a trigger puller first when it all comes down to it.

[QuickZ06]

Just wondering when women are going to have to sign up for the draft, that will defiantly be an interesting day.

[Carlybee]

Maybe my GI Jane comment came off as sexists, I was really watching that movie and do quite enjoy it. But women have been in combat for quite some time. Read up on the women snipers out there throughout history. This is the land of equal opportunity, well unless you are sleeping with a politician. Thing is, maybe this will open up a lot of doors as far as foreign policy goes. If enough women start popping up on the tubes for KIA, maybe it will really start to hit home and people will realize what a fucking sham all these wars are. I will fight with a platoon of women who are 100% qualified, over a group of unqualified men. But the testing should be equal across the board, even for the non combat stuff as well, because everyone of them is a trigger puller first when it all comes down to it.

Well women are already coming back missing limbs so I'm not sure what else it takes. What I do know is that most of them wanted to be there.

http://i.usatoday.net/_common/_notches/-2012%20WOMEN%20COMBAT.jpg

[QuickZ06]

Well women are already coming back missing limbs so I'm not sure what else it takes. What I do know is that most of them wanted to be there.

http://i.usatoday.net/_common/_notches/-2012%20WOMEN%20COMBAT.jpg

Thing is, we never hear about it on the media. Doing some research I found this.


More than 800 female service members have been wounded in either Afghanistan or Iraq, and at least 139 have died from combat- and non-combat-related incidents. Of these, 110 died as a result of serving in Iraq, however the last thirteen have all died in Afghanistan. As of April 2012.

http://www.allgov.com/news/us-and-the-world/139-female-soldiers-have-died-in-iraq-and-afghanistan?news=844316

[heavenlyboy34]

Maybe my GI Jane comment came off as sexists, I was really watching that movie and do quite enjoy it. But women have been in combat for quite some time. Read up on the women snipers out there throughout history. This is the land of equal opportunity, well unless you are sleeping with a politician. Thing is, maybe this will open up a lot of doors as far as foreign policy goes. If enough women start popping up on the tubes for KIA, maybe it will really start to hit home and people will realize what a fucking sham all these wars are. I will fight with a platoon of women who are 100% qualified, over a group of unqualified men. But the testing should be equal across the board, even for the non combat stuff as well, because everyone of them is a trigger puller first when it all comes down to it.

It would be wiser to find ways to shrink the military than to expand it, generally.

[QuickZ06]

Seems this is really a moot thread. Like I said women have been in combat quite some time (even here). But I agree with ZENemy people should be wanting out of the wars not wanting to go to them.

[QuickZ06]

It would be wiser to find ways to shrink the military than to expand it, generally.

Yes true but its already said and done and like me and Carlybee have stated they are already in combat and have been for quite some time, so why the uproar now? Many have done medical and police work that puts them with battalions on the front lines (kinda the way to get around women not being allowed in combat positions, and some join these jobs and know it). At least now they hopefully will start testing them the same as the males which is for there benefit and ours. But now the same effort needs to be put into getting all of them back here.

[Origanalist]

Yes true but its already said and done and like me and Carlybee have stated they are already in combat and have been for quite some time, so why the uproar now? Many have done medical and police work that puts them with battalions on the front lines (kinda the way to get around women not being allowed in combat positions, and some join these jobs and know it). At least now they hopefully will start testing them the same as the males.

No uproar, just posting on their expanding role. As people get more sick and tired of this never ending bullshit, the military is going to have to do whatever it can to fill the ranks.

[QuickZ06]

No uproar, just posting on their expanding role. As people get more sick and tired of this never ending bullshit, the military is going to have to do whatever it can to fill the ranks.

Haha it all good. I actually retort my last comment about it being a moot thread, as some of us have our difference on this topic. Seems we do need threads like this as you have stated. Maybe if indeed more and more pop up the masses will see whats been right in front of them the whole time.

[Occam's Banana]

Thing is, maybe this will open up a lot of doors as far as foreign policy goes. If enough women start popping up on the tubes for KIA, maybe it will really start to hit home and people will realize what a fucking sham all these wars are.

Unfortunately, I suspect it would probably induce a lot of people to wave their little U.S. flags even more vigorously, enthusiastically and mindlessly than they already do. Vietnam was the first "televised" war - and the things people saw were enough to contribute significantly to ending that fiasco. But it was also the first step in inuring people to such things. And with traditional media far more in thrall to the establishment today than they were then, I can easily see KIA'd women becoming nothing more than bulleted talking points in the warmongers' propaganda. "You don't want these mothers and daughters and sisters to have died in vain, do you?" "Are you so wretched and cowardly that you can't appreciate the patriotic sacrifice made by these fine women who gave up everything - including their lives? What an ingrate!" ... and so forth.

[Southron]

Equal Opportunity Empire?

[jkr]

sounds like a great way to STERILIZE a country...

moar wOr on women...(actual war this time ladies, not childish talking points about whoring yourself out then killing the product of said whoring)

[kcchiefs6465]

The time a woman should be fighting any enemy is when they are rolling up on our shores.

It's bad enough what is done to the young men of our country, to hell with 'equal opportunity.'

Why they'd want to go anyways is baffling. Some sort of feminist rite of passage? "We can get our legs blown off for narrow political reasons too! Take that chauvinists!" Honestly, what is wrong with this country?

[QuickZ06]

The time a woman should be fighting any enemy is when they are rolling up on our shores.

It's bad enough what is done to the young men of our country, to hell with 'equal opportunity.'

Why they'd want to go anyways is baffling. Some sort of feminist rite of passage? "We can get our legs blown off for narrow political reasons too! Take that chauvinists!" Honestly, what is wrong with this country?

Yep sames goes for our men.

[James Madison]

If the media can use the deaths of young men to its advantage, just wait until it gets the chance at using those of mothers and daughters for their own gain. Men have natural insticts to protect women in distress, and the system -- knowing this -- will happily plaster pictures of dead female soldiers so as to provide enough troops for larger-scale conflicts in the future.

[PSYOP]

This country is going to turn women into men and men into women. That's why I'm starting to see and I'm scared to death of it happening.

[I<3Liberty]

I have no problem with this as long as they can fulfill the SAME REQUIREMENTS expected of the men.

I always stress the fact that sex differences are based off hormone levels and sensitivity to these hormones. Take women with CAH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_adrenal_hyperplasia) for example -- While they have XX chromosomes, some develop more masculine features than feminine. Even the features of people without any sort of genetic defect or hermaphroditic characteristics vary. Not all men are fit to be a SEAL or army ranger, and while they may be a very small minority, some women could meet the requirements. The requirements need not focus on gender. What's important is whether or not the candidate can fulfill the requirements expected of him/her/ze.

[kcchiefs6465]

The time a woman should be fighting any enemy is when they are rolling up on our shores.

It's bad enough what is done to the young men of our country, to hell with 'equal opportunity.'

Why they'd want to go anyways is baffling. Some sort of feminist rite of passage? "We can get our legs blown off for narrow political reasons too! Take that chauvinists!" Honestly, what is wrong with this country?


Yep sames goes for our men.

This doesn't deserve anything else. God have mercy on us.

[oyarde]

The social homogenization of the sexes weakens cultures--->thus weakens the enemies of the global elite. Its alll apart of the Plan. Muaha ha ha

Actually , yes , that is correct and has been planned for sometime. In 2010 , if I recall , the Ranger Indoct. Prog. was replaced.I have no idea what that may be like now , but I can guarantee you no female collegiate athlete I have ever known could have made it through that , mid 1980's.As an example , I can also say that if US Army Special Forces Teams still perform tasks that I was familiar with decades ago , any female of any type would be a liability. I participated in all of that, and I doubt I could have ever qualified as a SEAL , ( I do not love the water that much, I have no gills ). Like Obummer care , with all its bullshit this has been in the works for sometime....

[oyarde]

Unfortunately, I suspect it would probably induce a lot of people to wave their little U.S. flags even more vigorously, enthusiastically and mindlessly than they already do. Vietnam was the first "televised" war - and the things people saw were enough to contribute significantly to ending that fiasco. But it was also the first step in inuring people to such things. And with traditional media far more in thrall to the establishment today than they were then, I can easily see KIA'd women becoming nothing more than bulleted talking points in the warmongers' propaganda. "You don't want these mothers and daughters and sisters to have died in vain, do you?" "Are you so wretched and cowardly that you can't appreciate the patriotic sacrifice made by these fine women who gave up everything - including their lives? What an ingrate!" ... and so forth. Sounds about right to me from the brain dead public.Make no mistake , none of my Grand Daughters will ever serve in defense of jack shit other than my dirt .I care not who I must kill when that time comes
Any Jack wagon who wants to draft one of my Girls
to do what I have done, my Father before me , my Grandfathers, Uncles , Great Uncles etc , all they will get is my wrath.

[cindy25]

this will be the excuse for National service slavery, not under Obama, (he wants it but it wouldn't pass) but I could see Rubio or Jeb supporting it

[kcchiefs6465]

this will be the excuse for National service slavery, not under Obama, (he wants it but it wouldn't pass) but I could see Rubio or Jeb supporting it
Basically is there.

I'd much prefer the men and women of our country fighting when there is an actual threat.

We will see what other country we are in for not narrow 'gains', but by and large losses.

We all need to be conscientious objectors. I have little faith in that.

[Pericles]

Actually , yes , that is correct and has been planned for sometime. In 2010 , if I recall , the Ranger Indoct. Prog. was replaced.I have no idea what that may be like now , but I can guarantee you no female collegiate athlete I have ever known could have made it through that , mid 1980's.As an example , I can also say that if US Army Special Forces Teams still perform tasks that I was familiar with decades ago , any female of any type would be a liability. I participated in all of that, and I doubt I could have ever qualified as a SEAL , ( I do not love the water that much, I have no gills ). Like Obummer care , with all its bullshit this has been in the works for sometime....

That ^ The only people who think that this is a good idea, are not in the business of winning wars - which it would appear is no longer the business of the US Army.

[Origanalist]

That ^ The only people who think that this is a good idea, are not in the business of winning wars - which it would appear is no longer the business of the US Army.

It's not important to win them, only to ensure they never end.

[Pericles]

It's not important to win them, only to ensure they never end.

What was I thinking?

[Origanalist]

What was I thinking?

Like a normal person? I know that you know better, but we both know most people are going to have a hard time believing what's right in front of their faces. It took me into the second GWB term to figure it out. (slow learner, short bus)

[heavenlyboy34]

Like a normal person? I know that you know better, but we both know most people are going to have a hard time believing what's right in front of their faces. It took me into the second GWB term to figure it out. (slow learner, short bus)
Is it easier to make friends on teh short bus?

[Origanalist]

Is it easier to make friends on teh short bus?

No, but they mean so much more.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IqTf-psO7eA