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View Full Version : This Daily Kos article Re: why liberals will lose youth to libertarian ideas is thoughtful




sailingaway
06-17-2013, 09:12 PM
but then it was written by someone who bills himself as an x libertarian. :p

Kidding, but it isn't snark central which is what usually seems to pass for ideas over there.

Take a look. In part:


As a young, liberal American, I am worried about the future of the Democratic Party and of liberalism in general in this country. I will be blunt: The presidency of Barack Obama has been a major setback to both. It has been a deep disappointment, and a betrayal of trust.
Most importantly, the Obama presidency -- and the current political agenda of mainstream Democratic Party politicians overall -- risks alienating an entire generation of once enthusiastic Democratic voters and giving new life to a Republican Party that is searching for a replacement for the dying social conservative message.

I see more and more young people giving up on the possibility of good government and turning to libertarianism. In many cases, they don't agree with libertarian economic policies, but after Obama, they simply no longer believe that it is even possible in America today for the federal government to do good, rather than all the bad things it's doing. Once people come to that belief, they naturally decide "screw government!" and they start voting for Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and other exponents of the philosophy that government doesn't work and therefore it should be cut to the bone.

I was a member of the Libertarian Party about 15 years ago, when I was in college. Bush turned me into a liberal, and I remain a liberal. But when I was a libertarian, it was mainly because I believed in the mantra of Harry Browne, the LP candidate at the time, who wrote a book called Government Doesn't Work. Browne's message was simple: The government never does what you want it to do; it always ends up doing the things you don't want it to do. Therefore, it is logical to support a smaller and less powerful government.

I'm sorry to say, but this cynical anti-government message is going to start resonating with more and more people, unless the Democratic Party boldly casts aside the center-right path of Barack Obama and embraces a new progressive revival. People want middle class jobs, not Big Brother listening to your phone calls and reading your emails. They want student loans, not bailouts for an obscenely wealthy investment banking industry. They want increased funding for health care and education, not cuts to Social Security and Medicare.

Too many Democrats have a smug assurance that the younger generations will automatically keep voting Democratic; that "demographic change" will condemn the GOP to permanent minority status in just a couple decades. But if the American people elect Democrats and then those Democrats keep cutting government services for the poor, elderly, and disadvantaged, while continuing to expand the military-industrial-security state and serving the Wall Street lobbyists that people were actually voting against, why are they going to bother to vote for Democrats again? "Because they have no other choice," right? I don't think that's going to work much longer.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/17/1216862/-Democrats-Risk-Losing-a-Generation-to-Cynical-Libertarianism#

the only problem is that progressivism doesn't give you any of the things he wants.

BAllen
06-17-2013, 09:36 PM
Maybe that's why they're pushing for this mass immigration. They need more suckers for the socialist game.

heavenlyboy34
06-17-2013, 09:44 PM
O NOEZ! TEH KIDZ DON'T LOVE BIG BROTHER!! :eek: ;) Murray must be smiling somewhere. :D :cool:

FrankRep
06-17-2013, 09:47 PM
The presidency of Barack Obama has been a major setback to both. It has been a deep disappointment, and a betrayal of trust.

What did you really expect? Obama supports Big Government, he was kinda open about that.

Austrian Econ Disciple
06-17-2013, 10:01 PM
What I am confused about is how Bush turned him into a liberal. I do hope to jeebus that he doesn't think Bush was anything in this universe or the multi-verse close to libertarianism.

Of course the Government never does what you want it to do. It is inhabited by human beings with their own interests and desires and they will follow those, not yours you damn fool. Let me tell you - rarely do those interests coalesce into something good for the common person.

FrankRep
06-17-2013, 10:05 PM
I'm sorry to say, but this cynical anti-government message is going to start resonating with more and more people, unless the Democratic Party boldly casts aside the center-right path of Barack Obama and embraces a new progressive revival.

"New Progressive Revival" means Bigger Government.



Progressivism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism) is a general political philosophy advocating or favoring gradual social, political, and economic reform through government action.

sailingaway
06-17-2013, 10:26 PM
"New Progressive Revival" means Bigger Government.



Progressivism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism) is a general political philosophy advocating or favoring gradual social, political, and economic reform through government action.

Hence my comment in the OP that he is looking the wrong direction.

Occam's Banana
06-17-2013, 10:35 PM
I was a member of the Libertarian Party about 15 years ago, when I was in college. Bush turned me into a liberal [...]

Libertarian? Bush? Liberal? Now there's one train-wreck of a non sequitur ...


I'm sorry to say, but this cynical anti-government message is going to start resonating with more and more people,

The truth often does that ...


unless the Democratic Party boldly casts aside the center-right path of Barack Obama [...] But if the American people elect Democrats and then those Democrats keep cutting government services [...]

WTF is this person smoking? And where can I get some? (I wanna visit other planets, too ...)

Feeding the Abscess
06-17-2013, 10:44 PM
"New Progressive Revival" means Bigger Government.



Progressivism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism) is a general political philosophy advocating or favoring gradual social, political, and economic reform through government action.

This short blurb literally says nothing. You could replace 'progressivism' with 'Rand Paul' and not change anything else, and it'd still make perfect sense.

Or, if you wanted a more cynical take, you'd realize the futility of Rand's approach after reading that definition of progressivism.

gwax23
06-17-2013, 10:52 PM
That guys an idiot. He reads one worthless book ive never heard about and thinks he understands libertarianism? He should educate himself and read people like Mises, Hazlitt, Rothbard, hayek etc. I hate these faux libertarians who dont really understand the core concepts regarding economics and philosophy. Theyre the idiots that say "Socially Liberal, Fiscally Conservative" They are the ones that usually become "ex-Libertarians" except they where never libertarians to begin with.

Handsome Mexican
06-17-2013, 10:56 PM
I see more and more young people giving up on the possibility of good government and turning to libertarianism.

This makes absolutely no sense.

Bastiat's The Law
06-17-2013, 11:53 PM
Daily Kos is hilariously deluded. I literally fall out of my chair laughing while reading their comments. Can you think of anything more entertaining than a possible meet & greet with that lot?

Bastiat's The Law
06-17-2013, 11:55 PM
From the comment section:


The libertarians really are an odd lot (1+ / 0-)

Like some sort of strange mating between Mikhail Bakunin and Alan Greenspan.

On civil liberties and security state issues, I've never had a gripe with them.

It's all that free-market every-man-for-himself crapola that loses me. Selfish greed simply is not a workable basis for a society, no matter how hard they try to dress it up.

You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone more universally despised within libertarian circles than Alan Greenspan.

Brian4Liberty
06-18-2013, 12:06 AM
Maybe that's why they're pushing for this mass immigration. They need more suckers for the socialist game.

Sounds like the author is afraid they will take that plan for granted:


Too many Democrats have a smug assurance that the younger generations will automatically keep voting Democratic; that "demographic change" will condemn the GOP to permanent minority status in just a couple decades.

Bastiat's The Law
06-18-2013, 12:09 AM
A lot of young libertarians do not understand that (12+ / 0-)

Eric Stetson is right when he talks about the young people who become disenchanted with government. I was shocked at how many Ron Paul supporters were very young. They tend to drift toward libertarianism because they see that as being anti-government. They are not as sophisticated as many people here at dkos. Libertarianism addresses their basic disaffection with govt. and they fail to see the downside.

This stuff has me in stitches over here!! :D

Natural Citizen
06-18-2013, 12:16 AM
This is a web site that I've maybe only once ever even looked at and it was from a link that I clicked on. I think I spent 3 minutes reading an article that people were flipping out about and it was silliness at best. The terms of controversy that was up for grabs was even laughable. Seems like a heck of a lot of opposition/over concern for a bunch of dolts sitting around fiddling with their keyboards. Why the problem with them? Do they actually organize or something? Is it a pro-Obama group? What is it?

Bman
06-18-2013, 12:28 AM
Ignore the progressive extremists. All their arguments stem from the "who will build the roads" argument. Take your case to people willing to listen. The extreme left will always be displeased with the idea of voluntary action to the problems that we face. I just think of them as intellectual lazy ass sloths at this point.

Being Libertarian isn't about a country, state, or government. It's about the individual. That's what idiots who ask to point out a Libertarian society refuse to understand. It's not about a collective it's about the individual and there are plenty of people living life as Libertarians and doing so quite successfully despite the current state of nonsense.

Bastiat's The Law
06-18-2013, 01:34 AM
This is a web site that I've maybe only once ever even looked at and it was from a link that I clicked on. I think I spent 3 minutes reading an article that people were flipping out about and it was silliness at best. The terms of controversy that was up for grabs was even laughable. Seems like a heck of a lot of opposition/over concern for a bunch of dolts sitting around fiddling with their keyboards. Why the problem with them? Do they actually organize or something? Is it a pro-Obama group? What is it?
Grab some popcorn and pull up the comments. Everyone deserves a good belly laugh now and then.

Natural Citizen
06-18-2013, 01:47 AM
Grab some popcorn and pull up the comments. Everyone deserves a good belly laugh now and then.

I went over there and took a look. Was thinking about joining some of the discussion over there. Of course, the only real public discussion I've found practical to participate in has been this one so I don't know. I'm not particularly a very political person and have very specific interests in that atmoshphere. Especially don't care for generic narrative and loaded discussion. Could be fruitful. Who knows. Don't know who the big boys are over there though. Should probably read around first. LE had mentioned the struggle in trying to place a square peg into a round hole the other day and it's a good point if the terms are premised upon solely conforming to political processes relative to generalized social perception but sometimes it's much easier and rewarding to just make your own hole and be done with it if altering the course itself is what one finds to be practical.