Yet another great rebuttal to the "I have nothing to hide" crowd

[economics102]

These people think it's OK for the government to spy on us. But if you ask them, "will you share all your personal data with me and everyone else who wants it?" they of course reply no.

The theory is that sharing information with the government is OK, but with others, not so much.

Implicit in that is the assumption the government is capable (or inclined) of keeping the data they warehouse safe.

And yet, here we are, discussing this very subject because a lowly contractor was able to steal top-secret data from the NSA. And then there's Bradley Manning, who downloaded huge caches of data just a few years earlier.

So, even if you're not worried about the government building a database of your every email/call/text/thought, maybe you should be worried that one day that database will be stolen and publicly released by a third party.

In fact, call me a cynic, but I wouldn't be surprised if that happens one day and is finally the thing that wakes people up.

[fisharmor]

In fact, call me a cynic, but I wouldn't be surprised if that happens one day and is finally the thing that wakes people up.

So disclaimer to the NSA agent reading this: I have no intention of being involved in this effort.... but... I would bet heavily that stealing that data would be the life's work of more than one person for more than one reason.

[TheTexan]

Yes, if all the data was released, that would be.. a very big event lol. I'd be fine if that happened, because I of course have nothing to hide.

[69360]

I'm not worried about the government spying on me personally, because I'm boring. But I oppose it on principle because the 4th amendment prohibits it. I suspect a lot feel the same way.

[economics102]

So disclaimer to the NSA agent reading this: I have no intention of being involved in this effort

I would like to add myself to that disclaimer too!

[economics102]

I'm not worried about the government spying on me personally, because I'm boring. But I oppose it on principle because the 4th amendment prohibits it. I suspect a lot feel the same way.

Right. The proper response to "I have nothing to hide" is "that's nice. But do you think you have the right to spy on other people? No? Well that how can you support your government doing this?"

[Occam's Banana]

I'm not worried about the government spying on me personally, because I'm boring. But I oppose it on principle because the 4th amendment prohibits it. I suspect a lot feel the same way.

What's more, I'll bet many - perhaps most - of the people who ended up in Gulag Archipelago had "nothing to hide" and were just as "boring" as you are and I am ...

[Elias Graves]

I laugh at those who claim they have nothing to hide.
What about their visits to all the playboy pic sites?
How about when the government makes something mainstream illegal? Your religion or political party get labeled a terrorist organization.
Maybe that anti-depressant prescription that'll keep you from getting a gun?

[69360]

I laugh at those who claim they have nothing to hide.
What about their visits to all the playboy pic sites?
How about when the government makes something mainstream illegal? Your religion or political party get labeled a terrorist organization.
Maybe that anti-depressant prescription that'll keep you from getting a gun?


You'll drive yourself nuts obsessing over what they know about you. Assume they know it all and enjoy your life. Sad but true in this world we live in. Hopefully we can change that eventually.

[KEEF]

You'll drive yourself nuts obsessing over what they know about you. Assume they know it all and enjoy your life. Sad but true in this world we live in. Hopefully we can change that eventually.


I understand what you are trying to say, but it sounds like a complacent way for the public to play like an ostrich and put your head in the sand.

[69360]

I understand what you are trying to say, but it sounds like a complacent way for the public to play like an ostrich and put your head in the sand.

I can't spend the rest of my life in fear that I might say something the NSA doesn't like and get droned. When I talk about it I say it's wrong, when I vote, I vote out those who approve of it. But scared of government is no way to live.

[Anti Federalist]

What's more, I'll bet many - perhaps most - of the people who ended up in Gulag Archipelago had "nothing to hide" and were just as "boring" as you are and I am ...

Oh, this...THIS!

You most certainly have something to hide.

[CaptUSA]

So disclaimer to the NSA agent reading this: I have no intention of being involved in this effort.... but... I would bet heavily that stealing that data would be the life's work of more than one person for more than one reason.Hmmm... interesting. You see, I'd be willing to bet just as heavily that the government is already giving this information out to people who grease their skids.

This detailed information on every American is just too valuable to allow someone to "steal" it. They will sell it to the highest bidder.

[kahless]

Another thing to tell people is that over time and through the Freedom of Information Act your data will likely end up in the public domain. That is if an NSA employee or hacker does not leak it long before then.

Do you really have nothing to hide in a life time of phone calls and emails? This means do you really want your kids, grand kids, family, friends to hear your personal phone calls and read emails from years ago whether you are still alive or after you die?

What sort of impact will it have on family and people you know when your private conversations and email end up in the public domain.

[Occam's Banana]

You most certainly have something to hide.

Indeed.

It also needs to be pointed out that the ridiculous "defense" of not having "something to hide" has got absolutely nothing to do with anything. In fact, it isn't really about us at all - let alone about us not having "something to hide." It's all about them - and their insatiable and overmastering desire for an indiscriminate, unlimited, all-encompassing purview. They're a sort of Fenris wolf that lusts to drink all the water in all the seas. The not-having-something-to-hide shtick is just a cheap and easy dodge. And most people (fools that they are) are happy to accept & recycle it.

FTA (emphasis mine): http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/12/snowden-surveillance-subverting-constitution

In the first week of October [2001], I had an extraordinary conversation with NSA's lead attorney. When I pressed hard about the unconstitutionality of Stellar Wind, he said: "The White House has approved the program; it's all legal. NSA is the executive agent." It was made clear to me that the original intent of government was to gain access to all the information it could without regard for constitutional safeguards. "You don't understand," I was told. "We just need the data."

[otherone]

The "government" is not faceless.
The government is your neighbors.
The government is that creepy guy who ogles you at Starbucks.
Yes, he is an agent of the NSA. he scans your hard drive everyday for photos of you and your kids.
He keeps tabs on who you are emailing, and reads the contents thereof.
Don't think it can't happen? It already does.
Why does he do it?
Because he can.
How does he get away with it?
You let him,
Because of terrorists.

[Pericles]

What's more, I'll bet many - perhaps most - of the people who ended up in Gulag Archipelago had "nothing to hide" and were just as "boring" as you are and I am ...

You asked for it -


And those who, like you and me, dear reader, go there to die, must get there solely and compulsorily via arrest.

Since you aren’t guilty, how can they arrest you? It’s a mistake! ...

Why, then should you run away? And how can you resist right then? After all, you’ll only make your situation worse; you’ll make it more difficult for them to sort out the mistake. ...

At what exact point, then, should one resist? When one’s belt is taken away? When one is ordered to face into a corner? When one crosses the threshold of one’s home? . . . An arrest consists of a series of incidental irrelevancies, of a multitude of things that do not matter, and there seems no point in arguing about one of them individually...and yet all these incidental irrelevancies taken together implacably constitute the arrest.

And you'll find nothing better to respond with than a lamblike bleat: "Me? What for?

“I dedicate this to all those who did not live to tell it. And may they please forgive me for not having seen it all nor remembered it all, for not having divined all of it - from The Gulag Archipelago”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/10420.Aleksandr_Solzhenitsyn)

[DamianTV]

I'll stick with my main argument for now: "Wrong" is a Subjective Term. To someone somewhere, anything you do is always doing Wrong.

[Anti Federalist]

The "government" is not faceless.
The government is your neighbors.
The government is that creepy guy who ogles you at Starbucks.
Yes, he is an agent of the NSA. he scans your hard drive everyday for photos of you and your kids.
He keeps tabs on who you are emailing, and reads the contents thereof.
Don't think it can't happen? It already does.
Why does he do it?
Because he can.
How does he get away with it?
You let him,
Because of terrorists.

One of the best posts I have read at RPFs:

1941 - Harper's Magazine: Who Goes Nazi?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?417749-1941-Harper-s-Magazine-Who-Goes-Nazi

Harper's Magazine
August 1941


It is an interesting and somewhat macabre parlor game to play at a large gathering of one’s acquaintances: to speculate who in a showdown would go Nazi. By now, I think I know. I have gone through the experience many times—in Germany, in Austria, and in France. I have come to know the types: the born Nazis, the Nazis whom democracy itself has created, the certain-to-be fellow-travelers. And I also know those who never, under any conceivable circumstances, would become Nazis...

Rest at link.

[jclay2]

I am also another one of those people who live by "assume they know everything". I still fight the system and try to educate others, however, it would be imprudent to assume anything but that. The one happy thought I do hold onto, though, is that no man, devil, or government can take away what is inside you. No matter how hard they try, your thoughts are your own (sorry google...singularity is not here yet..)

[otherone]

The one happy thought I do hold onto, though, is that no man, devil, or government can take away what is inside you. No matter how hard they try, your thoughts are your own (sorry google...singularity is not here yet..)

LOL.
Read 1984.
2+2=5, dear Winston.

[jclay2]

LOL.
Read 1984.
2+2=5, dear Winston.

I hope you are being sarcastic. The only way the government is "taking" my God given spirit and mind is by covering my true self in a 24-7 drugged out stupor. And even then they are only masking it.

[Carson]

Besides isn't all of that information owned and part of the public domain?

Ever wonder what they have to hide?



There's your argument for nothing to hide. IF they are going to insist on taking it all down...well lets just see what WE see.

We've got around 7,000,000,000 (http://www.census.gov/popclock/) actively watching them anyway. Perhaps WE are the eye in the sky.

The Alan Parsons Project- Eye in the Sky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_in_the_Sky_%28album%29)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNiie_zmSr8

Don't think sorry's easily said
Don't try. Turn the tables instead (Lyric correction)



Actually we don't need to see any more to know what is going on.

[otherone]

I hope you are being sarcastic. The only way the government is "taking" my God given spirit and mind is by covering my true self in a 24-7 drugged out stupor. And even then they are only masking it.

Seriously, read 1984 and you'll know what I'm referring to.

[jclay2]

Seriously, read 1984 and you'll know what I'm referring to.

Yes, I know the reference. I was just hoping you meant it out of sarcasm that is all.

[Anti Federalist]

Besides isn't all of that information owned and part of the public domain?

Ever wonder what they have to hide?



There's your argument for nothing to hide. IF they are going to insist on taking it all down...well lets just see what WE see.

We've got around 7,000,000,000 (http://www.census.gov/popclock/) actively watching them anyway. Perhaps WE are the eye in the sky.

The Alan Parsons Project- Eye in the Sky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_in_the_Sky_%28album%29)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNiie_zmSr8

Don't think sorry's easily said
Don't try. Turn the tables instead (Lyric correction)



Actually we don't need to see any more to know what is going on.

Don't think sorry's easily said
Don't try turning tables instead
You've taken lots of Chances before
But I ain't gonna give anymore
Don't ask me
That's how it goes
Cause part of me knows what you're thinkin'

Don't say words you're gonna regret
Don't let the fire rush to your head
I've heard the accusation before
And I ain't gonna take any more
Believe me
The sun in your Eyes
Made some of the lies worth believing

Chorus:
I am the eye in the sky
Looking at you
I can read your mind
I am the maker of rules
Dealing with fools
I can cheat you blind
And I don't need to see any more
To know that
I can read your mind, I can read your mind

Don't leave false illusions behind
Don't Cry cause I ain't changing my mind
So find another fool like before
Cause I ain't gonna live anymore believing
Some of the lies while all of the Signs are deceiving

[otherone]

...and now a less effeminate version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1B_pZC8aWU

ELECTRIC EYE

Up here in space
I'm looking down on you
My laser's trace
Everything you do
You think you've private lives
Think nothing of the kind
There is no true escape
I'm watching all the time
I'm made of metal
My circuits gleam
I am perpetual
I keep the country clean
I'm electric, electric spy
I'm protective electric eye
Always in focus
You can't feel my stare
I zoom into you
You don't know I'm there
I take a pride in probing
All your secret moves
My tearless retina
Takes pictures that can prove
I'm made of metal
My circuits gleam
I am perpetual
I keep the country clean
I'm electric, electric spy
I'm protective electric eye
Electric eye In the sky
They feel the stare
So always there
There's nothing you can do about it
Develop and expose
I feed upon your every thought
And so my power grows
I'm made of metal My circuits gleam
I am perpetual
I keep the country clean
I'm electric, electric spy
I'm protecting electric eye
I'm electric, electric spy
I'm protecting
Protective, detective
Electric eye

[Carson]

otherone,

Good song.