Cruz: Let's not rush to judgement on NSA spying

[Warlord]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md64_tw0Zuo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=md64_tw0Zuo

I notice the fraud didn't raise any Fourth Amendment objections. His constitutional conservatism only stretches so far.

[FrankRep]

Then he goes on to slam the NSA, however.

He wants to hear the facts before jumping to conclusions.

[Warlord]

Then he goes on to slam the NSA, however.

He wants to hear the facts before jumping to conclusions.

There's enough facts to condemn it and raise Fourth Amendment objections but the scholar and constitutional expert doesn't think much of the fourth like his Harvard bretheren in the White House. Total phony.

[Origanalist]

Ugh. A lot of fail there, links it to Obama's abuses instead of saying the whole thing is a abuse of power.

[FrankRep]

There's enough facts to condemn it and raise Fourth Amendment objections but the scholar and constitutional expert doesn't think much of the fourth like his Harvard bretheren in the White House. Total phony.

Wanting to review the facts first doesn't make you a phony. I mentioned before he did attack the NSA in the same interview.

[Warlord]

Wanting to review the facts first doesn't make you a phony. I mentioned before he did attack the NSA in the same interview.

He's a phony, you'll see it in due course. He is just speaking conservative to get ahead and mimic Rand. On the big issues we - and you - care about he'll defend Obama and his donor base. His wife is part of the Fed and Cruz himself is worth 5 million+

[FrankRep]

Ugh. A lot of fail there, links it to Obama's abuses instead of saying the whole thing is a abuse of power.

Welcome to the game of politics. Right now the GOP establishment is unsure how to view the NSA leaker. You win them over by exposing how Obama is abusing the system.

[Warlord]

Welcome to the game of politics. Right now the GOP establishment is unsure how to view the NSA leaker. You win them over by exposing how Obama is abusing the system.

The way to view it is as a gross violation of the Fourth but constitutonal/Harvard lawyer doesn't see it that way (surprise) just like the guy in the WH

[FrankRep]

He's a phony, you'll see it in due course. He is just speaking conservative to get ahead and mimic Rand. On the big issues we - and you - care about he'll defend Obama and his donor base. His wife is part of the Fed and Cruz himself is worth 5 million+

That's your opinion.

[puppetmaster]

Hey speaking of him I just heard a radio commercial to abolish the IRS and it was sponsored by Cruz.....it was on fox news on Sirius

[FrankRep]

The way to view it is as a gross violation of the Fourth but constitutonal/Harvard lawyer doesn't see it that way (surprise) just like the guy in the WH

He's just playing politics. Not a big deal.

[Warlord]

He's just playing politics. Not a big deal.

Yes, he's playing to his donor base. Betcha if you look them up he's got NSA contractors or other state-connected entities in there. Dont make me do it.

[FrankRep]

Yes, he's playing to his donor base. Betcha if you look them up he's got NSA contractors or other state-connected entities in there. Dont make me do it.

Please do. Find the dirt on him. Don't throw out speculation without facts.

[NIU Students for Liberty]

Welcome to the game of politics. Right now the GOP establishment is unsure how to view the NSA leaker. You win them over by exposing how Obama is abusing the system.

Right, so they can go back to championing spying when Team Red is in the White House.

Welcome to the game of politics.

[kcchiefs6465]

Right, so they can go back to championing spying when Team Red is in the White House.

Welcome to the game of politics.
Poli-ticks*

[Carlybee]

I don't know how anyone can not condemn the NSA's traitorous act against the citizens of this country. BS they ALL know what's going on but they are all afraid of the warmongering kingmakers who decide the pecking order within the party.

[Warlord]

I don't know how anyone can not condemn the NSA's traitorous act against the citizens of this country. BS they ALL know what's going on but they are all afraid of the warmongering kingmakers who decide the pecking order within the party.

Except Rand and Mike Lee. The rest are all bought and paid for.

[FrankRep]

I don't know how anyone can not condemn the NSA's traitorous act against the citizens of this country. BS they ALL know what's going on but they are all afraid of the warmongering kingmakers who decide the pecking order within the party.
Ted Cruz did condemn the NSA.

[FrankRep]

Except Rand and Mike Lee. The rest are all bought and paid for.

I'm surprised you don't throw Mike Lee in the same boat as Ted Cruz.

[Valli6]

He should've been willing to criticize the TSA without turning the focus to Obama. I suspect he'd be fine with spying on citizens if some "trustworthy" :rolleyes: republican were president.

[kcchiefs6465]

Except Rand and Mike Lee. The rest are all bought and paid for.
What was it Mike Lee was referring to with regards to Snowden? I forget his exact phrase but remember people were upset up it.

Something along the lines of Snowden being a traitor? It might have been milder than that, I really don't remember.

[trey4sports]

I've been disappointed that NO ONE is hailing Snowden as a hero. Where is massie, stockman, bentivolio, and the others? Are you REALLY going to refuse to side with a modern day American hero? While it may not be popular at the moment I assure you that history will absolve you.

[Warlord]

edit nevermind,, doesn't tell us much; employees

[Carlybee]

I've been disappointed that NO ONE is hailing Snowden as a hero. Where is massie, stockman, bentivolio, and the others? Are you REALLY going to refuse to side with a modern day American hero? While it may not be popular at the moment I assure you that history will absolve you.

Yep..Snowden may turn out to be our modern day Paul Revere.

[Warlord]

What was it Mike Lee was referring to with regards to Snowden? I forget his exact phrase but remember people were upset up it.

Something along the lines of Snowden being a traitor? It might have been milder than that, I really don't remember.

He's also raised questions about the 4th though I think. Mixed bag.

[Carlybee]

You cannot be selective about the Bill of Rights. Just saying and looking at what the general consensus is in Congress.

[Warlord]

The Senate is worthless. (with 1 or 2 exceptions) Get ready to be disappointed if you think Cruz is the real deal. He is so obviously not. His persecution of Hagel should have raised enough red flags. Not because I think Hagel is a good guy - he's not - but the way he did it and implied if your not a fan of the military or the Iraq war that isn't patriotic or whatever. He could easily apply that to Rand and smear him. He probably will in due course. He's the kind who will stab you in the back while smiling gracefully.

[compromise]

"If it is the case that the federal government is seizing millions of personal records about law-abiding citizens, and if it is the case that there are minimal restrictions on accessing or reviewing those records, then I think Mr. Snowden has done a considerable public service by bringing it to light.”
- Ted Cruz

[Warlord]

You cannot be selective about the Bill of Rights. Just saying and looking at what the general consensus is in Congress.

Tell that to Mark Levin and Ted Cruz... and also the liberals via-a-vis the 2nd or 10th. They're all guilty of being selective about it. There's literally a handful in CONgress who aren't.

[Warlord]

"If it is the case that the federal government is seizing millions of personal records about law-abiding citizens, and if it is the case that there are minimal restrictions on accessing or reviewing those records, then I think Mr. Snowden has done a considerable public service by bringing it to light.”
- Ted Cruz

He aint got the balls to say it on Faux though. He says lets not rush to judgement. Doesn't even mention the Fourth.

[FrankRep]

He should've been willing to criticize the TSA without turning the focus to Obama. I suspect he'd be fine with spying on citizens if some "trustworthy" :rolleyes: republican were president.

He was having a discussion with some hardcore neocons. He needed to speak their language.

[FrankRep]

He aint got the balls to say it on Faux though. He says lets not rush to judgement. Doesn't even mention the Fourth.

He chose his words wisely.

[Natural Citizen]

Ugh. A lot of fail there, links it to Obama's abuses instead of saying the whole thing is a abuse of power.

Standard left/Right paradigm. This is why I maintain so much respect for the statesmanship of Ron Paul. The man made it abundantly clear that he wasn't just trying to get elected. The man said he wanted to change the course of history. He did a great job at waking people up and soliciting action from them. To let these political paradigms resteer the course that Ron worked so hard to direct toward the interests of the people is a complete letdown in my opinion.

[Natural Citizen]

He chose his words wisely.

Seems like he's acting just like any other politician in the wonderful world of we ask/you decide.

[Natural Citizen]

He was having a discussion with some hardcore neocons. He needed to speak their language.

Why?

[Warlord]

Standard left/Right paradigm. This is why I maintain so much respect for the statesmanship of Ron Paul. The man made it bundently clear tyhat he wasn't just trying to get elected. The man said he wanted to change the course of history. He did a great job at waking people up and soliciting action from them. To let these political paradigms resteer the course that Ron worked so hard to direct toward the interests of the people is a complete letdown in my opinion.

I love Ron's "The Fourth Amendment is clear..."

Yes it is. Pity they dont take notice.

[Carlybee]

Tell that to Mark Levin and Ted Cruz... and also the liberals via-a-vis the 2nd or 10th. They're all guilty of being selective about it. There's literally a handful in CONgress who aren't.

That's why trying to exist within a party that is always going to stop short of protecting the Constitution is a no win situation when liberty leaders have to suck up and lie what is the gain?

[Warlord]

That's why trying to exist within a party that is always going to stop short of protecting the Constitution is a no win situation when liberty leaders have to suck up and lie what is the gain?

No you can exist.. see the handful who made it. Rand is so obviously the highest profile and probably will be in our life time. He must annoy them no end. But to get to congress and climb the ladder you have to sell out or be relegated to backbench status for decades as Ron Paul was. But even though Ron got relegated he was still on House Financial Services and Foreign relations committee. They're not letting Amash/Massie and the few others on to such committee's now. Taking no chances. Rand got there thanks only to McConnell. He's got no pull with the even more worthless Boehner.

[Carlybee]

No you can exist.. see the handful who made it. Rand is so obviously the highest profile and probably will be in our life time. He must annoy them no end. But to get to congress and climb the ladder you have to sell out or be relegated to backbench status for decades as Ron Paul was. But even though Ron got relegated he was still on House Financial Services and Foreign relations committee. They're not letting Amash/Massie and the few others on to such committee's now. Taking no chances. Rand got there thanks only to McConnell. He's got no pull with the even more worthless Boehner.

And that's my point. We are running out of time before our rights are completely down the toilet.

[FrankRep]

Seems like he's acting just like any other politician in the wonderful world of we ask/you decide.

Ted Cruz' voting record speaks for itself.

[LibertyEagle]

Standard left/Right paradigm. This is why I maintain so much respect for the statesmanship of Ron Paul. The man made it abundantly clear that he wasn't just trying to get elected. The man said he wanted to change the course of history. He did a great job at waking people up and soliciting action from them. To let these political paradigms resteer the course that Ron worked so hard to direct toward the interests of the people is a complete letdown in my opinion.

That worked with YOU and the rest of us. It did NOT WORK for the vast majority of the voting public. Do remember that we are somewhat odd birds. If you were around when we did all those personality tests, most of us are INTJ, which is like 2-5% of everyone out there. We think differently than most people.

Most people had no idea what Ron was even talking about. On top of that, he used lingo that made it appear that he was different than what he was, and on and on. Believing that we can just keep trying to pound a square nail into a round hole, isn't going to get us anywhere.

That is why we need other people who can speak in terms that different audiences in America, understand. That is what Rand is trying so hard to do. Ron is continuing with his approach, but on the outside. Two different wrecking balls going after different audiences. We need all that we can get.

[Natural Citizen]

And that's my point. We are running out of time before our rights are completely down the toilet.

What is becoming more and more transparent is that it's just a big old contest among those at the "leadership" level to see who gets to hold the gavel or crack the whip once they're actually all down that toilet. Power is the prize should mainstream narrate the terms of controversy in the presence of our representatives. The people will continue to concede their power of representation should this phenomenon strengthen and the correct terms of controversy are thrown out the window.

Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never has and it never will. That said, who speaks for the people? The media? Many would remain content for this to be the case but demand must come from the people. The people ask. The people decide. Too often our prospective representatives forget that when hyptnotized by the sparkle of power.

Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground.

Can't have thunder without lightening, Mr. Cruz. Not in the real world, skippy.

[kcchiefs6465]

"If it is the case that the federal government is seizing millions of personal records about law-abiding citizens, and if it is the case that there are minimal restrictions on accessing or reviewing those records, then I think Mr. Snowden has done a considerable public service by bringing it to light.”
- Ted Cruz
Do you not see any problems with this statement?

[Carlybee]

What the NSA is doing...at the behest of government and via the Patriot Act and other unconstitutional actions is out and out tyranny. Our "representatives" and I use that term loosely, need to stop being mealy mouth and take action on behalf of their consituents. If they are not willing to do that because they are afraid to rock the boat, then they are not upholding their oaths of office. Exposing tyranny is not treason and those who think it is are at the worst part of the machine and at best cowards.


*excuse the typos...on a phone.

[FrankRep]

Do you not see any problems with this statement?

His "if" statements are true so I say well played, Ted Cruz.

[Natural Citizen]

Ted Cruz' voting record speaks for itself.


Yes, I know what his voting record is. Am still peeved a little that he was willing to sell out the people and vote in favor of Monsanto when he voted against the amendment to allow states to set GMO labeling laws most recently.

My comment was more toward the paradigm shift in the presence of the we ask you decide crowd and have bitten my tongue regarding some of the voting records for the most part.

[Warlord]

Ted Cruz' voting record speaks for itself.

All 4 months of it. Completely useless. Of course Rubio's is pretty good as well. They're careful to vote the right way for the scorecards. You obviously dont pay attention. He'll let you down soon enough and you'll be apologizing to the wise old Warlord.

[FrankRep]

Yes, I know what his voting record is. Am still peeved a little that he was willing to sell out the people and vote in favor of Monsanto when he voted against the amendment to allow states to set GMO labeling laws most recently.

My comment was more toward the paradigm shift in the presence of the we ask you decide crowd and have bitten my tongue regarding some of the voting records for the most part.

Ted Cruz and Rand Paul voted correctly on that issue. States need to create those laws on a state level.

Maine and Connecticut did it right.

[FrankRep]

All 4 months of it. Completely useless. Of course Rubio's is pretty good as well. They're careful to vote the right way for the scorecards. You obviously dont pay attention. He'll let you down soon enough and you'll be apologizing to the wise old Warlord.
You still haven't supplied any dirt on Ted Cruz.

All you can admit is that he has a good voting record.

[Carlybee]

This wait and see attitude is BS. We know what is happening...do they stand on the side of tyranny or not? Pretty simple question.

[Warlord]

You still haven't supplied any dirt on Ted Cruz.

All you can admit is that he has a good voting record.

The fact that he doesn't even mention the FOURTH F**king amendment is enough dirt to a seasoned watcher of liberty politics

[FrankRep]

This wait and see attitude is BS. We know what is happening...do they stand on the side of tyranny or not? Pretty simple question.

You can't attack Ted Cruz for something he hasn't done. He has a good voting record and he works well with Rand Paul.

[Warlord]

You can't attack Ted Cruz for something he hasn't done. He has a good voting record and he works well with Rand Paul.

He'll stab Rand right in the back. Just look at how he went after Hagel when he's got his sights set on someone. He is a vicious, smearing hatchet man and he'll think nothing of using the goodwill he think he's building up to plunge the dagger into the back of anyone who gets in his and his backers way.

[FrankRep]

The fact that he doesn't even mention the FOURTH F**king amendment is enough dirt to a seasoned watcher of liberty politics

He was talking with Neocons and made them understand that the NSA spying was a bad thing.

[Warlord]

He was talking with Neocons and made them understand that the NSA spying was a bad thing.

Rand talks to neocons every other day and mentions the Fourth. That's no excuse.

[FrankRep]

He'll stab Rand right in the back. Just look at how he went after Hagel when he's got his sights set on someone. He is a vicious, smearing hatchet man and he'll think nothing of using the goodwill he think he's building up to plunge the dagger into the back of anyone who gets in his and his backers way.

I also opposed Chuck Hagel and I still do. Ted Cruz has not stabbed Rand Paul in the back.

[Warlord]

I also opposed Chuck Hagel and I still do. Ted Cruz has not stabbed Rand Paul in the back.

It's nnot about CHUCK Hagel the individual it's about the way he went after someone. Smearing them. It could have been whoever you want and it was still deplorable. He'll train those smears on Rand soon enough. Just stop being so naive.

[FrankRep]

Rand talks to neocons every other day and mentions the Fourth. That's no excuse.

The Neocons probably don't take Rand Paul all that seriously anyway.

[Warlord]

The Neocons probably don't take Rand Paul all that seriously anyway.

You bet they do. They're trying to smear him. That's usually a good indication. Even Kristol fears him ,

[FrankRep]

It's nnot about CHUCK Hagel the individual it's about the way he went after someone. Smearing them. It could have been whoever you want and it was still deplorable. He'll train those smears on Rand soon enough. Just stop being so naive.
Stop being the department of Pre-Crime.

[compromise]

It's nnot about CHUCK Hagel the individual it's about the way he went after someone. Smearing them. It could have been whoever you want and it was still deplorable. He'll train those smears on Rand soon enough. Just stop being so naive.

Cruz looks up to Rand. Rand is one of his closest allies in the Senate.

Saying Ted Cruz will be smearing Rand Paul soon enough, is like saying Lindsey Graham will be smearing John McCain soon enough.

[FrankRep]

You bet they do. They're trying to smear him. That's usually a good indication. Even Kristol fears him ,
Well, you just admitted that Rand Paul's words fell on Neocon deaf ears. Ted Cruz is deploying a more effective strategy.

[Warlord]

Stop being the department of Pre-Crime.

If you can't see what Rafael is up to then God help you. He is no friend of liberty. He is not even mentioning the Fourth with regards to NSA> This is a clear sign that he's not really a consitutional conservative and is just trying to co-opt and cherry pick certain things. Just like his smearing of Hagel for opposition to iraq war in Cruz's eyes this makes him "less of a fan of the military". That's another huge red flag of where he is. Just because he's not voting that way (yet) doesn't mean anything. Can't wait for his distorted views on foreign policy and what being a fan of the military means to finally get you to wake up

[FrankRep]

If you can't see what Rafael is up to then God help you. He is no friend of liberty. He is not even mentioning the Fourth with regards to NSA> This is a clear sign that he's not really a consitutional conservative and is just trying to co-opt and cherry pick certain things. Just like his smearing of Hagel for opposition to iraq war in Cruz's eyes this makes him "less of a fan of the military". That's another huge red flag of where he is.
Ted Cruz has done nothing wrong and he got the Neocons to agree that the NSA spying is bad.

[Warlord]

Cruz looks up to Rand. Rand is one of his closest allies in the Senate.

Saying Ted Cruz will be smearing Rand Paul soon enough, is like saying Lindsey Graham will be smearing John McCain soon enough.

LOL... Cruz the famous Harvard lawyer looks up to the doctor from BOWLING GREEN... only for long enough to kick him off the throne... or so he hopes.

[Carlybee]

You can't attack Ted Cruz for something he hasn't done. He has a good voting record and he works well with Rand Paul.

I'm not attacking him...I'm questioning this reserving opinion about the obvious tyranny against the American people. They can verbally condemn all they want...we need actionable engagement. The NSA and its string pullers need to be brought up on charges.

[Warlord]

Ted Cruz has done nothing wrong and he got the Neocons to agree that the NSA spying is bad.

Oh come on now. He's done plenty wrong. The NSA spying is a contravention of the FOURTH... for a lawyer he should be immediately on to that. But no, he's fine with it as long as certain rules and laws (which he writes) are adhered to. Great.

The NSA of course will claim they have broken no laws. And they're probably right. The laws suck and need to be thrown out and the NSA shut down.

[compromise]

Whenever Ted Cruz is mentioned, Warlord goes nuts.

Saying something vague isn't "doing wrong".

[FrankRep]

LOL... Cruz the famous Harvard lawyer looks up to the doctor from BOWLING GREEN... only for long enough to kick him off the throne... or so he hopes.

Your statement makes absolutely no sense. You're playing this "divide and conquer" technique to break up the Rand/Cruz/Lee power alliance.

[kcchiefs6465]

"If it is the case that the federal government is seizing millions of personal records about law-abiding citizens, and if it is the case that there are minimal restrictions on accessing or reviewing those records, then I think Mr. Snowden has done a considerable public service by bringing it to light.”
- Ted Cruz


His "if" statements are true so I say well played, Ted Cruz.
How about not having a federal government that seizes millions of personal records on its citizens to begin with? His statement is apparently of the opinion that seizing the records of millions of people is fine, so long as there are restrictions on when you can access the records. You can't broadly collect everyone's information and then go show probable cause of why you want so and so's telephone communications. The millions of other people whose records were engulfed by the massive program's rights were already violated not to mention there was no probable cause to begin with. The Fourth Amendment was violated simply by their communications being gathered and stored. Whether the people know their information is on a server somewhere or not, or whether Ted Cruz understands this or not.

The statement compromise posted is troublesome still. With Ted Cruz's background it should be obvious to him that you cannot collect all communications and store them so that in the future if you so happen to find probable cause you can go back and look at the records. Where was the probable cause to begin with?

[Warlord]

Your statement makes absolutely no sense. You're playing this "divide and conquer" technique to break up the Rand/Cruz/Lee power alliance.

There's nothing to divide. Cruz has never - and never will be - been a friend of liberty. Only when it's convenient for Rafael Cruz and his pathetic, nauseating career and MaverickPAC neocon agenda.

[Anti Federalist]

Ugh. A lot of fail there, links it to Obama's abuses instead of saying the whole thing is a abuse of power.

Yeah, what I was afraid of...not gonna watch.

Into the Stossel/Pilon heap.

[TruckinMike]

What the NSA is doing...at the behest of government and via the Patriot Act and other unconstitutional actions is out and out tyranny. Our "representatives" and I use that term loosely, need to stop being mealy mouth and take action on behalf of their consituents. If they are not willing to do that because they are afraid to rock the boat, then they are not upholding their oaths of office. Exposing tyranny is not treason and those who think it is are at the worst part of the machine and at best cowards.



yea really --- Saying that wasn't so difficult. Was it? Its not like it was some 80 word tongue twisting impossible phrase. Heck, that was even easier than saying rubber bumper baby buggys ...by the sea shore. ...LoL:)

Cruz is a boot licking coward. Its going to take folks like Rand Paul, Mike Lee, and Cruz saying REAL facts and not beating around the bush, placating, or schmoozing for political doggie snacks. Screw the perks, parties, and committee assignments---> LET FREEDOM RING!!!

[Anti Federalist]

Oh come on now. He's done plenty wrong. The NSA spying is a contravention of the FOURTH... for a lawyer he should be immediately on to that. But no, he's fine with it as long as certain rules and laws (which he writes) are adhered to. Great.

The NSA of course will claim they have broken no laws. And they're probably right.

The laws suck and need to be thrown out and the NSA shut down.

Warlord is more correct than I think even Warlord knows, right here.

[Warlord]

>Cruz is a boot licking coward.

A Frank assessment only Frank doesn't quite see it yet. He will the longer he keeps opening his mouth though.

[compromise]

Can you provide proof that MaverickPAC is ideologically neoconservative?

I'm pretty sure if I ran for Congress, MaverickPAC would back my candidacy. They back virtually all ethnic minority Republican nominees in electable states/districts.

[Natural Citizen]

His "if" statements are true so I say well played, Ted Cruz.

"If" a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his rear end on the rocks. But a frog doesn't have wings. And so he's got a bruised ass all of the time.

Repatriation of representation is not a game to be played for one's political amusement.

[Warlord]

Can you provide proof that MaverickPAC is ideologically neoconservative?

I'm pretty sure if I ran for Congress, MaverickPAC would back my candidacy. They back virtually all ethnic minority Republican nominees in electable states/districts.

Holding a forum and fundraising for that idiot Cotton is enough of an indication

[green73]

Sounds like he's reserving judgement. Smart move, Cruzy, smart move!

[Warlord]

Sounds like he's reserving judgement. Smart move, Cruzy, smart move!

Yeah right... the difference being Rand is raising the Fourth, suing them, condemning the program and doing everything he can to stop it. Politically siding with Snowden is risky but not outright condemning what's happening. Cruz is a wimp.

[FrankRep]

Your statement makes absolutely no sense. You're playing this "divide and conquer" technique to break up the Rand/Cruz/Lee power alliance.


There's nothing to divide. Cruz has never - and never will be - been a friend of liberty. Only when it's convenient for Rafael Cruz and his pathetic, nauseating career and MaverickPAC neocon agenda.

You are still trying to divide and conquer by trying to drive a wedge between Rand supporters and Ted Cruz.

Ted Cruz has no dirt on him. Your biggest "got-ya" is a $5000 donation from Maverick PAC.

[FrankRep]

Yeah right... the difference being Rand is raising the Fourth, suing them, condemning the program and doing everything he can to stop it. Politically siding with Snowden is risky but not outright condemning what's happening. Cruz is a wimp.

Name calling doesn't prove your case. Ted Cruz knows that the Neocons could careless about the Fourth Amendment.

[Warlord]

You are still trying to divide and conquer by trying to drive a wedge between Rand supporters and Ted Cruz.

Ted Cruz has no dirt on him. Your biggest "got-ya" is a $5000 donation from Maverick PAC.

He FOUNDED MavPAC and will no doubt be doing all sorts of events and endorsements for them. And they'll all be neocons/establishment types as he talks out the other side of his mouth.

Cruz reminds me of the talk radio hosts now who all sound excellent. If Bush was in office he'd be kissing his butt. He's aligned with Rand cuz it's good for Rafael, that's all.

[green73]

Yeah right... the difference being Rand is raising the Fourth, suing them, condemning the program and doing everything he can to stop it. Politically siding with Snowden is risky but not outright condemning what's happening. Cruz is a wimp.

Hey, man, have you seen the polls? Politics is a nasty business. You have to put your finger to the wind sometimes.

[Warlord]

Name calling doesn't prove your case. Ted Cruz knows that the Neocons could careless about the Fourth Amendment.

Ugh, no he doesn't. He is a neocon. He backs most of them via MavPac including the idiot Cotton. Rand raises the fourth constantly and tries to drum that into them. Cruz doesn't care about the 4th. Just the ones he likes (like the 2nd). Typical stuff really. You;ll see for yourself in due course.

[Warlord]

Hey, man, have you seen the polls? Politics is a nasty business. You have to put your finger to the wind sometimes.

Except condemning the program rather than defending it is politically good. As Rand says he doesn' know why his GOP colleagues are backing it when it's a huge political win. The reason is easy: campaign $$$ from the connected entities.

[FrankRep]

Ugh, no he doesn't. He is a neocon. He backs most of them via MavPac including the idiot Cotton. Rand raises the fourth constantly and tries to drum that into them. Cruz doesn't care about the 4th. Just the ones he likes (like the 2nd). Typical stuff really. You;ll see for yourself in due course.

Wow. You just have no dirt on Ted Cruz. You better try harder if you want to break up the Rand/Cruz/Lee power alliance.

So far I'm happy with Ted Cruz' work in the Senate.

[FrankRep]

Except condemning the program rather than defending it is politically good. As Rand says he doesn' know why his GOP colleagues are backing it when it's a huge political win. The reason is easy: campaign $$$ from the connected entities.

Lying doesn't prove your case either. Ted Cruz didn't defend the NSA.

[Warlord]

Wow. You just have no dirt on Ted Cruz. You better try harder if you want to break up the Rand/Cruz/Lee power alliance.

So far I'm happy with Ted Cruz' work in the Senate.

There's no alliance there. Only on certain issues and when it's good for Rafael. Only Rand and Mike Lee are in the Tea Party caucus as far as I know. As far as the Warlord is concerned there is only one senator worthy of the name anyway and possibly 2 with Lee.

[green73]

Except condemning the program rather than defending it is politically good. As Rand says he doesn' know why his GOP colleagues are backing it when it's a huge political win. The reason is easy: campaign $$$ from the connected entities.


Sounds like he's doing what's needed to be president. Can't fault him there.

[Warlord]

Sounds like he's doing what's needed to be president. Can't fault him there.

Jeez, of course you can fault his complete refusal to raise the Fourth. If Rand wasn't raising the Fourth i'd be just as upset. He's a snake and it's going to be more obvious as he opens his oily trap as times go by. I look forward to his foreign policy "vison". lulz if it's like Rubio's maybe Frank and the rest will wake up.

[green73]

Jeez, of course you can fault his complete refusal to raise the Fourth. If Rand wasn't raising the Fourth i'd be just as upset. He's a snake and it's going to be more obvious as he opens his oily trap as times go by. I look forward to his foreign policy "vison". lulz if it's like Rubio's maybe Frank and the rest will wake up.

It's a smart political move no? Don't hate the player, hate the game.

[FrankRep]

There's no alliance there. Only on certain issues and when it's good for Rafael. Only Rand and Mike Lee are in the Tea Party caucus as far as I know. As far as the Warlord is concerned there is only one senator worthy of the name anyway and possibly 2 with Lee.

Yes there is an alliance there. They vote alike and they tag-team on issues. It's pretty amazing to see.

[Warlord]

It's a smart political move no? Don't hate the player, hate the game.

WTF are you babbling on about? The smart move politically is to CONDEMN the program and raise constitutional objections - as Rand Paul is - the move to defend it and "not rush to judgement" on the NSA is to protect the $80bn/year spygrid and campaign donors no doubt.

[Warlord]

Yes there is an alliance there. They vote alike and they tag-team on issues. It's pretty amazing to see.

There are many senators who vote with Rand... including Rubio and McConnell. He's the most powerful Senator that's why and they dont want to be on the wrong side of him. Cruz is no different.

[compromise]

Holding a forum and fundraising for that idiot Cotton is enough of an indication

FreedomWorks also did a lot for Cotton. Do you hold them in the same regard?

[compromise]

There's no alliance there. Only on certain issues and when it's good for Rafael. Only Rand and Mike Lee are in the Tea Party caucus as far as I know. As far as the Warlord is concerned there is only one senator worthy of the name anyway and possibly 2 with Lee.

Actually, Jerry Moran is also a member of the Senate Tea Party caucus.

[FrankRep]

Jeez, of course you can fault his complete refusal to raise the Fourth. If Rand wasn't raising the Fourth i'd be just as upset. He's a snake and it's going to be more obvious as he opens his oily trap as times go by. I look forward to his foreign policy "vison". lulz if it's like Rubio's maybe Frank and the rest will wake up.

This is a pretty weak argument to make. I said earlier that Ted Cruz knows that Neocons don't care about the Fourth Amendment. Ted Cruz is forced to frame the argument in another way to explain to the Neocons why NSA spying is bad.

[green73]

WTF are you babbling on about? The smart move politically is to CONDEMN the program and raise constitutional objections - as Rand Paul is - the move to defend it and "not rush to judgement" on the NSA is to protect the $80bn/year spygrid and campaign donors no doubt.


I dunno. if you look at the polls...

[Warlord]

This is a pretty weak argument to make. I said earlier that Ted Cruz knows that Neocons don't care about the Fourth Amendment. Ted Cruz is forced to frame the argument in another way to explain to the Neocons why NSA spying is bad.

That doesn't explain his refusal to raise the Fourth. You can raise the Fourth to neocons. Rand does it every chance he gets. The lawyer who should know better doesn't. Red flag.

[compromise]

Jeez, of course you can fault his complete refusal to raise the Fourth. If Rand wasn't raising the Fourth i'd be just as upset. He's a snake and it's going to be more obvious as he opens his oily trap as times go by. I look forward to his foreign policy "vison". lulz if it's like Rubio's maybe Frank and the rest will wake up.

Ted Cruz has already sufficiently differentiated himself from Rubio on foreign policy by condemning humanitarian military intervention as recently as 2 weeks ago.

http://www.cruz.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=343988

She's an aggressive interventionist, supporting sending our men and women into harm's way for "humanitarian" causes.

[Warlord]

I dunno. if you look at the polls...

The polls i've seen show 60% against the whole thng. GALLUP.COM including 65% of Republicans.

[FrankRep]

WTF are you babbling on about? The smart move politically is to CONDEMN the program and raise constitutional objections - as Rand Paul is - the move to defend it and "not rush to judgement" on the NSA is to protect the $80bn/year spygrid and campaign donors no doubt.

That's a poor strategy with the Neocons.

[Warlord]

Ted Cruz has already sufficiently differentiated himself from Rubio on foreign policy by condemning humanitarian military intervention as recently as 2 weeks ago.

http://www.cruz.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=343988

That doesn't mean anything. He might support her if she wanted intervention for the reasons he thinks are desirable. We'll see in due course

[Warlord]

That's a poor strategy with the Neocons.

No it's not... 65% of the FOX Republican are against the NSA spying. OBJECT TO IT outrght is the smart and right thing to do. Like Rand is doing. Jeez.. im done with this. You'll wake up eventually.

[FrankRep]

That doesn't explain his refusal to raise the Fourth. You can raise the Fourth to neocons. Rand does it every chance he gets. The lawyer who should know better doesn't. Red flag.

I mentioned before that the Neocons aren't influenced by Rand Paul. Another strategy must be used.

[Warlord]

I mentioned before that the Neocons aren't influenced by Rand Paul. Another strategy must be used.

The audience and viewer is though. That's why he keeps raising it to put his objection in a constitutional context. The context Rafael uses is Obamascandals. Silly.

I'm done with you.

[FrankRep]

No it's not... 65% of the FOX Republican are against the NSA spying. OBJECT TO IT outrght is the smart and right thing to do. Like Rand is doing. Jeez.. im done with this. You'll wake up eventually.

The Neocon establishment supports NSA spying. Your strategy will fail with the Neocons.

[FrankRep]

The audience and viewer is though. That's why he keeps raising it to put his objection in a constitutional context. The context Rafael uses is Obamascandals. Silly.

I'm done with you.

Ted Cruz played the Obama card brilliantly. That's an excellent strategy.

[green73]

The polls i've seen show 60% against the whole thng. GALLUP.COM including 65% of Republicans.


They've been going both ways. The heart of the GOP establishment is in full support of it. Cruz is playing this like a pro.

[compromise]

That doesn't mean anything. He might support her if she wanted intervention for the reasons he thinks are desirable. We'll see in due course

What it does mean is that he differs from Rubio on foreign policy, who vocally supports humanitarian intervention. Rubio said the following at a speech to the liberal Brookings Institution, where he appeared to indirectly describe Rand as a Republican so far-right he's aligned with left wingers:


I am always cautious about generalizations but until very recently, the general perception was that American Conservatism believed in robust and muscular foreign policy. That was certainly the hallmark of the foreign policies both President Bush's. But when I arrived in the Senate last year I found that some of the traditional sides in the foreign policy debate had shifted. On the one hand, I found liberal Democrats and conservative Republicans working together to advocate our withdrawal from Afghanistan, or our staying out of Libya. On the other hand I found myself partnering with Democrats like Bob Menendez or Senator Casey on a more forceful foreign policy. In fact, the resolutions that I co-authored with Senator Casey on Syria and with Senator Menendez condemning fraudulent elections in Nicaragua were held up by Republicans. I recently joked that today, in the U.S. Senate, on foreign policy, if you go far enough to the right, you wind up on the left. And I found this sentiment not just in the Senate, but back home as well. For example, many of my loyal supporters were highly critical of my decision to call for a more active U.S. role in Libya.

[Carlybee]

Its really sad that there is no agressive action being taken on an act of tyranny by our own govt against its citizens due to political wrangling. There is much irony in the phrase don't rush to judgment...apparently we are judged to be so guilty of anything that they can spy on us daily...yet we must give THEM the benefit of the doubt.

[jtstellar]

.. wtf do people miss the moment where he explicitly says 'not just the obama administration, we don't trust any administration, and it shouldn't be trust that safeguard our liberties, it should be the constitution' what can be more of a constitutionalist talking point than that?

and it's not just the moment you missed that's the problem, quite frankly it's the problem of you naysayers' mindset and the whole framework of your mentality that allows you to be totally oblivious to a forming/reforming constitutionalist right in front of your eyes like many we are seeing now because the message is spreading via all the scandals/our work/rand's work. your obliviousness is the only problem to take away from this

and -please- that was an f perfect presentation of the correct perspective to take on this whole thing and the inference to liberties

[green73]

Its really sad that there is no agressive action being taken on an act of tyranny by our own govt against its citizens due to political wrangling. There is much irony in the phrase don't rush to judgment...apparently we are judged to be so guilty of anything that they can spy on us daily...yet we must give THEM the benefit of the doubt.

I miss Ron Paul. Well not really, he is still putting out his ideas. I just wish a lot of people here still gave a shit and help spread those ideas, but nooo, it's all about winning the presidency, watering down the message to appease the establishment etc.

Obviously, I've been trolling Warlord a bit on this thread. But it's fun to be in the role of the apologist once in a while.

[FrankRep]

I miss Ron Paul. Well not really, he is still putting out his ideas. I just wish a lot of people here still gave a shit and help spread those ideas, but nooo, it's all about winning the presidency, watering down the message to appease the establishment etc.

Obviously, I've been trolling Warlord a bit on this thread. But it's fun to be in the role of the apologist once in a while.

We need philosophers and we need politicians. We all serve our function.

It is absolutely critical that we **WIN*** seats in the House, Senate, and one day the White House. Otherwise, nothing will change.

[DamianTV]

IN a way, he is right. We should be rushing to a judgement on Cruz however.

[FrankRep]

IN a way, he is right. We should be rushing to a judgement on Cruz however.

Based on what evidence? You can't punish him for a good voting record.

[CPUd]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lakoslPNdD1qzmowao1_500.jpg

[Carlybee]

We need philosophers and we need politicians. We all serve our function.

It is absolutely critical that we **WIN*** seats in the House, Senate, and one day the White House. Otherwise, nothing will change.

Nothing will have a chance to change or to win anything once we lose every single right we have. Letting them get away with this without calling it out as a tyrannical crime against citizens is a bit more critical, IMO.




We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness

[jtstellar]

"we shouldn't rush to judgment" as opener

a few minutes later after hosts began nodding heads he said 'big government is scary and any administration shouldn't have this power not just obama'.

the 'we shouldn't rush to judgment' is to audiences who have made up their mind always to trust the government.. cruz obviously has made up his to distrust the government, he says that to soften his opposition, then after he walks them through a few points he basically leads them to this conclusion possibly offensive to some if said on the outset in a dogmatic fashion. the 'don't rush' is literally good for 3 minutes 'before i make my point'.. this is a common tactic rand uses. cruz has picked up a few things from that