John Stossel - Pipe down, NSA is stopping terrorists from hurting us.

[Anti Federalist]

Boy it really is on issues like this where the wheat is separated from the chaff.

Is he even aware that NSA is part of that trillion dollar plus spending that he is worked up about?




Why Libertarians Have Better Things to Worry About Than the NSA

Neither terrorism nor the NSA are the greatest threats to American liberty.

John Stossel | June 12, 2013

http://reason.com/archives/2013/06/12/why-libertarians-have-better-things-to-w

This week, Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., said the National Security Agency's data mining violates our Fourth Amendment right to be "secure in their persons, houses, papers" and is "tyranny that our founders rebelled against." Good for him.

In an op-ed, he adds, "We fought a revolution over issues like generalized warrants, where soldiers would go from house to house, searching anything they liked," and wonders "which parts of the Constitution this government will next consider negotiable." Good for him. I'm glad at least one senator reminds Big Government that our Constitution limits federal power.

And many libertarians are furious at this latest intrusion of "Big Brother."

So what's wrong with me? I just can't get that worked up about it.

I know Big Data now in NSA computers probably includes my phone calls. (I hope it's just time, duration, location and recipients, not my words, too, but I'm not sure.)

I know the snooping may be unnecessary. Government's claim that it prevents terror is weak: Officials say a terrorist was caught, but New York City police say he was caught via other methods. I'm skeptical about the very claim that any terribly important "secrets" are held by unhappy 29-year-olds and 4.8 million other people (that's how many Americans hold security clearance for classified material).

So it's invasive, probably illegal and maybe useless. I ought to be very angry. But I'm not. Why?

I need to keep thinking about this issue, but for now, two reasons:

1. Terrorists do want to murder us. If the NSA is halfway competent, Big Data should help detect plots.

2. My electronic privacy has already been utterly shredded by Google, Amazon, YouTube and so on.

They know with whom I talk, what interests me and how much time I spend doing this or that. They creep me out with targeted ads. How did they know I want that?! Oh, right ... I spent an hour searching ...

Then I go outside in New York City, where 16 cameras record me on my way to work.

Greedy lawyers can subpoena my private records. My employer has a right to read my emails.

My privacy is already blown.

I'm angrier about other things Big Government does in the name of keeping me safe: forcing me to wear safety gear, limiting where I may go, stripping me at airports, forcing me to pay $2,300 for more military than we need.

Actually, $2,300 is the average Americans pay for our military. I pay more. The total for all of us is more than $700 billon a year, which is, as Chris Preble of the Cato Institute pointed out on my TV show, "more than we spent at the peak of the Cold War ... fighting the Soviet Union."

The danger was greater then, when we had a nuclear Soviet Union threatening to "bury us."

Much of America's defense spending goes to defend our allies in Europe and Asia. They spend less because we spend more.

"We are suckers," said Preble. "I don't blame them. If I were in their situation, if someone else was offering to pay for my security, I'd let them do it."

And it's not clear that we do what we do efficiently. The U.S. Department of Defense is prone to the same sorts of inefficiency that plagues other parts of government. The department's brownie recipe is 26 pages long.

Military officials say al-Qaida has been weakened. Iran (someday) may build a nuclear bomb, but we managed to deter China and Russia when they had thousands.

Some people want the U.S. military to police the world: Contain China, transform failed states, chase terrorists, train foreign militaries, protect sea lanes, protect oil supplies, stop genocide, protect refugees, maintain bases in allied countries, police our southern border, stop drug trafficking and spread good through humanitarian missions. The list is endless, which is the problem.

The U.S. military can't be everywhere. And we can't hand the government unlimited power and unlimited money every time a potential crisis looms.

We must remain on guard against threats. But bankruptcy may be the greatest threat.

[Anti Federalist]

John Stossel: Advertisers Already Collect our Data, so the NSA is Our Friend

Posted by Ryan W. McMaken on June 12, 2013 01:13 PM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/139450.html

Over at Reason, John Stossel is telling libertarians to quit being all worked up about the NSA and quit worrying about privacy.

This is the same guy, of course, who has specifically said that the US Military is a force for wondrous good in the world, and that various invasions such as Bosnia and Vietnam have all been, on the whole, good things.

In other words, his position now is the same as his position then: Hey libertarians, stop criticizing the government so much.

Stossel is one of the those libertarians for whom it is fine to criticize welfare for poor people (which costs next to nothing compared to the military apparatus in this country), while the police state is always above reproach. Why, only cranks would ever think the US Government and its spies and uranium bombs are anything other than super duper!

Stossel is one of the species of libertarians who, like Charles Murray, are supposed to be these great radical libertarians, but who in reality never actually criticize the core of the state. For such people, the essence of libertarianism is to point out some waste or abuse here and there, but to never actually attack the heart of the state, which is its military-prison-taxation system. That latter stuff, they tell us, is always pretty much okay, and the best that it could possibly be at the given time, and we shouldn't waste our time criticizing it, except to maybe call for a radically huge 1% cut in spending on it. The Fourth Amendment is a dead letter? Drones incinerating American citizens without trial? Who cares? There are poor people buying lobster with food stamps! That's the real threat.

UPDATE
Writes a friend: Stossel is an "efficiency expert for the Leviathan State."

[Sola_Fide]

Total failure.

[IDefendThePlatform]

I think the best reply to that came from Snowden (who I'm sure wasn't the first to use the phrase), when he talked about how all the data collection, surveillance, etc.. just setup the government with the potential for "turn-key tyranny."

[ctiger2]

OMG Stossel. I knew it.. A complete phoney... HAHAHAHA!

[Feeding the Abscess]

I think the best reply to that came from Snowden (who I'm sure wasn't the first to use the phrase), when he talked about how all the data collection, surveillance, etc.. just setup the government with the potential for "turn-key tyranny."

Yep. Architecture of oppression. Sounds like an excellent death metal album title, but instead it's fucking reality.

[TaftFan]

He isn't right but I understand where he is coming from. We always knew we were being watched. It came with the technology. And now it is no surprise.

Still a big fan of his though.

[kcchiefs6465]

Maybe next he can groupie for Bruce Springsteen.

What was that story Green posted about normalization? Perhaps people ought to take heed to the liberties already lost, the power from the people already usurped, instead of blindly saying, "Meh, I post shit I shouldn't to fedbook so what's the difference?" The American spirit is gone, too gone. As a man half of most your ages what the fuck happened?

[Anti Federalist]

Total failure.

http://gifs.gifbin.com/112010/1290166265_jet-ski-faceplant.gif

http://gifs.gifbin.com/022010/1266414680_bike_faceplant.gif

[enhanced_deficit]

oh yea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whwc6lVZzl4

[Anti Federalist]

Maybe next he can groupie for Bruce Springsteen.

What was that story Green posted about normalization? Perhaps people ought to take heed to the liberties already lost, the power from the people already usurped, instead of blindly saying, "Meh, I post shit I shouldn't to fedbook so what's the difference?" The American spirit is gone, too gone. As a man half of most your ages what the fuck happened?

Truth...and I am one of those old men, and I look at the young ones and say the same thing.

It's pandemic.

[kahless]

I did not expect this from Stossel. Really disappointing.

[Anti Federalist]

He isn't right but I understand where he is coming from. We always knew we were being watched. It came with the technology. And now it is no surprise.

Still a big fan of his though.

What would be a surprise?

What would be enough to blast the people out of their stupor?

I frankly think nothing.

I think your average Americunt would let a cop rape his wife, in front of him and the kids, and hand him a warm towel to wipe up the spunk with a smile and a "thank you for your service" on his lips.

He'd then post it to youtube and FarceBook for his buddies to fap to in between football games.

[kcchiefs6465]

Truth...and I am one of those old men, and I look at the young ones and say the same thing.

It's pandemic.
Trust me brother, I am not trying to demonize any group and say they are the cause. This has been a constant downhill for decades upon decades. (and my generation isn't in any shape to change course.. I'm personally sad to say) A simple, "Where did we go wrong?" isn't even an answerable question anymore. You could write books on it. I get pessimistic and I'll tell you, most isn't without reason. The kind of ignorant half sentenced garbage-worth explanations, the American people snorting up the excuses quicker than Bill Clinton. It's a damn shame.

I hardly even watched Stossel, either. Except for the occasional Ron Paul interview. This country is broken fundamentally, philosophically, ethically.. I don't even know where to start.

[Anti Federalist]

This country is broken fundamentally, philosophically, ethically.. I don't even know where to start.

I agree, and I think it is unfixable.

Secession please.

[oyarde]

Fuck the NSA , no, things cannot be fixed that has been clear for sometime.Past that point.

[Mani]

Terribly disappointed in Stossel, I thought he was on the correct side. I couldn't even read the whole damn thing, too annoyed.


One thing this whole Snowden experience has made me realize, is....The Land of the FREE, is the biggest oxymoron on the planet.


Not only is this NOT the Land of the FREE, but if you TRY to LEAVE or ESCAPE the land of the FREE, and this land WANTS YOU BACK, The WORLD becomes really really fucking tiny on the places you can go and be safe.

If the LAND OF THE FREE wants you....Holy fuck, they can pretty much have you. Out of all the countries to flee, it seems like the Land of the FREE is the most difficult of them all. How fucking free is that?

They have treaties with all these countries, they have their own people in many countries around the world. You try to open up a bank account in another country being a US citizen...Oh man, they don't want you.

The LAND OF THE FREE keeps it's eyes on you GLOBALLY. From a tax perspective they are watching what you do and earn anywhere in the planet, unlike ANY other country. What you type, email, post online we now know is captured.

And if you try to hide, they have global outreach, manpower, laws, bullying tactics, and other agreements to find you and turn you over.


This realization is truly frightening. As long as you obey their commands you're ok, but slightly waiver, and this is the least free country in the world. They have the resources to find you, anywhere.....

[John F Kennedy III]

I just lost all respect for Stossel.

[Sola_Fide]

AF is right...this is where the wheat is separated from the chaff.

[sailingaway]

Wow.

Unsurprisingly, I prefer Ron's take. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/350696/ron-paul-reacts-nsa-andrew-stiles

[Warlord]

That's an impressive response from McMaken. Thank F(ck for LRC huh ? dont forget to donate.

[Cap]

The correct response to Stossel.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IWB6hGIA9sw

[jkr]

DIDNT

STOP


BOSTON

[cajuncocoa]

Maybe next he can groupie for Bruce Springsteen.

What was that story Green posted about normalization? Perhaps people ought to take heed to the liberties already lost, the power from the people already usurped, instead of blindly saying, "Meh, I post shit I shouldn't to fedbook so what's the difference?" The American spirit is gone, too gone. As a man half of most your ages what the fuck happened?People just don't give a shit. As long as they're well fed and entertained, you can tap their phones (hey, if you don't have anything to hide....am I right?) and line their streets with tanks and jackbooted thugs (see: Boston lockdown)...they just don't care.

edited to add: 9-11-01 changed everything. It wasn't wonderful before, but after that day, any expectation of having privacy or civil liberties fell off the table....as I knew it would. And it ain't coming back anytime soon.

[JCDenton0451]

Boy it really is on issues like this where the wheat is separated from the chaff.

Is he even aware that NSA is part of that trillion dollar plus spending that he is worked up about?


But he supports gay marriage and is welcoming of immigrants! Isn't this what libertarianism is all about?

/sarcasm


I just lost all respect for Stossel.

The dude is employed by Fox News. It really shouldn't come as a surprise that he's just a "libertarian" neocon.

[PSYOP]

What a shame. I'll be thrifting his books tonight.

[fisharmor]

They know with whom I talk, what interests me and how much time I spend doing this or that. They creep me out with targeted ads. How did they know I want that?! Oh, right ... I spent an hour searching ...

Wow, Stossel....
Personally I don't see why people get so worked up over targeted ads.
Google figured out that you spent an hour looking for something and decided to try to help you out with finding it?
Cry me a fucking river!!!!

Forgive me if I see a distinct difference between targeted ads and targeted killing of your pets, targeted black-bagging, targeted waterboarding, targeted gunning you down in the street, or targeted burning you alive on national TV.

[JCDenton0451]

The reason why private companies collect data is to make their services better. Simple as that. If you're uncomfortable with Google's privacy policies, just use a different search. But there is no way you can opt out of NSA surveilance program.

[EBounding]

Oh wow, I thought he was being sarcastic.......

[Neil Desmond]

Maybe Big Brother got him to say "Do it to Julia!"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFYQq3Xi5uw

[TonySutton]

There is a big difference between Google targeting ads at me and a government who has the power to whisk me away to Guantanamo without a trial.

[compromise]

I'd much rather be watched by a private business than the government.

[kcchiefs6465]

I'd much rather be watched by a private business than the government.
This is the problem with republicans.

There is government collusion between the two.

FFS. I'D RATHER NOT BE WATCHED BY ANYONE.

What happened to this country?

[krugminator]

I know it's unpopular but I kind of feel the same way as Stossel. He isn't saying that people shouldn't be worked up about this. He is just saying that he isn't that excited. He isn't criticizing people for making a huge issue out of this.

In terms of things that excite me, this ranks no where near the the budget deficit. I might be wrong to feel that way but it is my honest take.

[cajuncocoa]

I'd much rather be watched by a private business than the government.
*smh*

[IBleedNavyAndOrange]

My whole life I thought he was one of the good guys. It changed for me on Friday. It was a completely different issue. I knew he had a teevee show but I never watched it. It was right before I was going to sleep and they previewed the next segment before going to commerial.
It was about GMO foods, but I won't derail this thread with the details.

STOSSEL IS A CON MAN.

He had me duped.

Thanks, AF for posting confirmation!

[Anti Federalist]

I'd much rather be watched by a private business than the government.

How about neither?

While I have always held that the private can tyrannize you just as fast as the government can, this is a perfect example of when that maxim does not play out.

I still have a chance to smash that Xbox Kinect and tell Screwgle to cram it with walnuts, and they can't send an armed goon squad to force compliance.

Yet...

[JCDenton0451]

There is a big difference between Google targeting ads at me and a government who has the power to whisk me away to Guantanamo without a trial.

At least Google can't wiretap your phone. They are subject to the same laws as the rest of us.

[Anti Federalist]

I know it's unpopular but I kind of feel the same way as Stossel. He isn't saying that people shouldn't be worked up about this. He is just saying that he isn't that excited. He isn't criticizing people for making a huge issue out of this.

In terms of things that excite me, this ranks no where near the the budget deficit. I might be wrong to feel that way but it is my honest take.

He's not just saying "meh".

He is defending the system:


If the NSA is halfway competent, Big Data should help detect plots.

That ain't freedom.

And if there is one thing that this evil empire does NOT need to do, is work efficiently and within budget.

Christ help us all, that is the only thing keeping us out of the gulag as it is, the gross inefficiency and sloth of The System and its minions.


Stossel is an "efficiency expert for the Leviathan State."

[donnay]

Anybody who is in the 'main stream media' have sold their soul for fifty pieces of silver. Actually I am not surprise at Stossel's remarks. I just surprised at the people who know the agenda being surprised.

We have to remember the MSM are losing watchers and readers daily--I like to called them "the dinosaurs." That always gives me hope. The globalists want to isolate the people and make them 'think' they are all alone in the fight--the truth is we are not, that is why they a ramping-up the propaganda--they're scared.

[KEEF]

What would be a surprise?

What would be enough to blast the people out of their stupor?

I frankly think nothing.

I think your average Americunt would let a cop rape his wife, in front of him and the kids, and hand him a warm towel to wipe up the spunk with a smile and a "thank you for your service" on his lips.

He'd then post it to youtube and FarceBook for his buddies to fap to in between football games.

Well wouldn't you in the name of national security? ;)

[kcchiefs6465]

At least Google can't wiretap your phone. They are subject to the same laws as the rest of us.
What's the difference if google intercepts your email compared to them giving the NSA direct access to their servers?

[JCDenton0451]

What's the difference if google intercepts your email compared to them giving the NSA direct access to their servers? Are you reffering to gmail accounts? Don't use gmail accounts.

[donnay]

I just want to pass along this info:

Giant US government Internet spying scandal revealed


The Washington Post and The Guardian have revealed a US government mass Internet surveillance program code-named "PRISM". They report that the NSA and the FBI have been tapping directly into the servers of nine US service providers, including Facebook, Microsoft, Google, Apple, Yahoo, YouTube, AOL and Skype, and began this surveillance program at least seven years ago. (clarifying slides)

These revelations are shaking up an international debate.

StartPage has always been very outspoken when it comes to protecting people's privacy and civil liberties. So it won't surprise you that we are a strong opponent of overreaching, unaccountable spy programs like PRISM. In the past, even government surveillance programs that were begun with good intentions have become tools for abuse, for example tracking civil rights and anti-war protesters.

Programs like PRISM undermine our Privacy, disrupt faith in governments, and are a danger to the free Internet.

StartPage and its sister search engine Ixquick have in their 14-year history never provided a single byte of user data to the US government, or any other government or agency. Not under PRISM, nor under any other program in the US, nor under any program anywhere in the world. We are not like Yahoo, Facebook, Google, Apple, Skype, or the other US companies who got caught up in the web of PRISM surveillance.

Here's how we are different:
•StartPage does not store any user data. We make this perfectly clear to everyone, including any governmental agencies. We do not record the IP addresses of our users and we don't use tracking cookies, so there is literally no data about you on our servers to access. Since we don't even know who our customers are, we can't share anything with Big Brother. In fact, we've never gotten even a single request from a governmental authority to supply user data in the fourteen years we've been in business.
•StartPage uses encryption (HTTPS) by default. Encryption prevents snooping. Your searches are encrypted, so others can't "tap" the Internet connection to snoop what you're searching for. This combination of not storing data together with using strong encryption for the connections is key in protecting your Privacy.
•Our company is based in The Netherlands, Europe. US jurisdiction does not apply to us, at least not directly. Any request or demand from ANY government (including the US) to deliver user data, will be thoroughly checked by our lawyers, and we will not comply unless the law which actually applies to us would undeniably require it from us. And even in that hypothetical situation, we refer to our first point; we don't even have any user data to give. We will never cooperate with voluntary spying programs like PRISM.
•StartPage cannot be forced to start spying. Given the strong protection of the Right to Privacy in Europe , European governments cannot just start forcing service providers like us to implement a blanket spying program on their users. And if that ever changed, we would fight this to the end.

Privacy.

It's not just our policy - it's our business.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We are working hard to offer you an encrypted email service later this year called StartMail. We have to stand up and protect our freedoms from increasing overreach from data gatherers. You've made the right choice by using StartPage.com. Now is the time to tell others!

Sincerely,

Robert E.G. Beens
CEO StartPage.com and Ixquick.com

Source:
https://www.startpage.com/eng/prism-program-exposed.html


They release their new private email system at the end of June.
BETA TESTER
Sign up to become a Startpage Email Beta Tester.
https://startmail.com/

[Brett85]

How about neither?

While I have always held that the private can tyrannize you just as fast as the government can, this is a perfect example of when that maxim does not play out.

I still have a chance to smash that Xbox Kinect and tell Screwgle to cram it with walnuts, and they can't send an armed goon squad to force compliance.

Yet...

If you think that a certain company is spying on you and invading your privacy, then don't do business with them. It's that simple. A private company can't force you to do business with them. If you don't like a company like Google then use a different search engine.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Stossel, for all his good qualities, still gets schooled by Bill O'Reilly on foreign policy every time they debate so what do you expect? Not the sharpest libertarian knife in the drawer.

[Anti Federalist]

If you think that a certain company is spying on you and invading your privacy, then don't do business with them. It's that simple. A private company can't force you to do business with them. If you don't like a company like Google then use a different search engine.

And when all of them are in collusion with government to spy on me?

But honestly, isn't that what I just said?

[Antischism]

Came in expecting a sarcastic article, left disappointed.

[compromise]

How about neither?

While I have always held that the private can tyrannize you just as fast as the government can, this is a perfect example of when that maxim does not play out.

I still have a chance to smash that Xbox Kinect and tell Screwgle to cram it with walnuts, and they can't send an armed goon squad to force compliance.

Yet...

A private business cannot use force so doesn't really have that much use for spying, other than advertising. The government does. Private/government collusion isn't so much a problem either, as some businesses do not support the government surveillance as it deters customers - it's more a one-sided approach. The problem still fundamentally remains the government. I don't believe socialism is the lesser of two evils when the alternative is corporatism, although I know many on here do.

As for the Kinect, nobody is even forcing you to buy a Kinect. And we are nowhere near the point at which the government is going to start forcing people to buy Kinects.

Some people on here (including many of those who claim to be hardcore libertarians) are of the progressive mentality that we can have our cake and eat it, i.e. both use these products and still have full "privacy rights" from the company. Same thing with GMO labeling, there was a guy in the other thread that supported GMO labeling because he didn't want to switch from Hellmann's mayo to a verified GMO-free brand.

[Brett85]

And when all of them are in collusion with government to spy on me?

But honestly, isn't that what I just said?

Well then we should advocate ending the government collusion. I'm just not in favor of actually having the government prevent companies from spying on its customers. I'm not saying you support that either; I'm just making clear what my position is.

[Anti Federalist]

Well then we should advocate ending the government collusion. I'm just not in favor of actually having the government prevent companies from spying on its customers. I'm not saying you support that either; I'm just making clear what my position is.

Yeah, well I'm not.

[JCDenton0451]

And when all of them are in collusion with government to spy on me?

But honestly, isn't that what I just said?

They're not 'in collusion' with the government. The government simply has them by the balls. Don't you understand? The government really is the problem.

[Anti Federalist]

A private business cannot use force so doesn't really have that much use for spying, other than advertising.

Hmmm?

Mine companies, car companies, steel companies, oil companies just to name a few, have used "private" security firms to bust heads and enforce compliance in "company towns".

Shit, the only reason we have "police" in the modern sense of the word, is because of a private company that started the idea.

Go read up on the history of Pinkerton's "private" cops and detectives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_Government_Services

[VBRonPaulFan]

What a disappointing article. His basic argument is that he gives tons of information to companies like Google, Microsoft, Facebook, etc already - so the NSA getting it is no big deal.

Hey dipshit, a lot of us don't willing give out any personal information to those companies, so the NSA mining is definitely a serious breach of our privacy! Not to mention that my calls, emails, etc are none of their fucking business.

Unless Stossel has no problem with me personally going through all of his call logs, medical records, bank statements, emails, and anything else i want - he's a goddamn hypocrite.

[VBRonPaulFan]

If you think that a certain company is spying on you and invading your privacy, then don't do business with them. It's that simple. A private company can't force you to do business with them. If you don't like a company like Google then use a different search engine.

Except when companies are able to do it essentially secretly without you realizing it. Most people have absolutely NO idea the amount of data that companies can scrape from you by just hitting their page once (if you allow it). This has been a long time argument for many on the web. It can be hard to strike a balance between usability, functionality, and privacy.

http://lifehacker.com/5887140/everyones-trying-to-track-what-you-do-on-the-web-heres-how-to-stop-them

[ItsTime]

Um the NSA already failed to stop terrorism (Boston Bombers) while they were collecting data on your grandmother....

[mad cow]

I don't understand why Stossel can't multi-task and object to the Government violating his rights in many different ways at the same time.Am I supposed to stop objecting to second amendment violations to concentrate my limited brain power on fourth or fifth or tenth amendment violations?

I have no problem with private companies using info I provide them to provide me with services,as long as it is a voluntary transaction and I can turn it on or off and the Government can't get any of it without a signed and sworn warrant.In fact,I think they're wonderful.

Take location(GPS)based services,for instance.I can be in a city I have never been to in my life and get turn by turn directions to any sort of place or business I might want or need to find and all in a female Irish or Australian accent,if that is my pleasure.Or check what amenities are available at an offramp 100 miles up the road and what the traffic is like between here and there.And on and on and on.

[Anti Federalist]

Take location(GPS)based services,for instance.

Owned by government.

Thus government can dictate how it's system, and the data it produces, is used.

[mad cow]

Owned by government.

Thus government can dictate how it's system, and the data it produces, is used.

As are roads and highways and interstates.
May the government dictate that the fourth amendment doesn't apply there?Or the second?

[Anti Federalist]

As are roads and highways and interstates.
May the government dictate that the fourth amendment doesn't apply there?Or the second?

They'll sure try.

Which is why I'm opposed to private roads.

See, once the GPS data passes through "private" hands, then they claim there are no more Fourth Amendment protections.

Which, in the case of both GPS and roads, you have no other alternative but to use the one source that is there.

(I think only one source...Russian GLONASS went tits up, didn't it?)

[Christian Liberty]

What would be a surprise?

What would be enough to blast the people out of their stupor?

I frankly think nothing.

I think your average Americunt would let a cop rape his wife, in front of him and the kids, and hand him a warm towel to wipe up the spunk with a smile and a "thank you for your service" on his lips.

He'd then post it to youtube and FarceBook for his buddies to fap to in between football games.
Well, I don't know about that, but I do know that one pastor told pastor Chuck Baldwin that Romans 13 meant that if a cop tries to rape your wife you can't morally protect her. Which is ridiculous.

Stossel, for all his good qualities, still gets schooled by Bill O'Reilly on foreign policy every time they debate so what do you expect? Not the sharpest libertarian knife in the drawer.
How do you lose to Bill O'Reilly on foreign policy?

Well then we should advocate ending the government collusion. I'm just not in favor of actually having the government prevent companies from spying on its customers. I'm not saying you support that either; I'm just making clear what my position is.
I don't think it should be illegal for them to spy on you, but I think it should be illegal for them to spy on you without you consenting to it.

They'll sure try.

Which is why I'm opposed to private roads.

See, once the GPS data passes through "private" hands, then they claim there are no more Fourth Amendment protections.

Which, in the case of both GPS and roads, you have no other alternative but to use the one source that is there.

(I think only one source...Russian GLONASS went tits up, didn't it?)You oppose private roads AND the existance of government. Do you therefore oppose roads period?

[mad cow]

I had never heard of GLONASS,had to look it up.According to Wiki,they have full global service since 2011.Interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS

[Anti Federalist]

I don't think it should be illegal for them to spy on you, but I think it should be illegal for them to spy on you without you consenting to it.
You oppose private roads AND the existance of government. Do you therefore oppose roads period?

Phrase it this way:

What am I in favor of?

I am in favor of maximizing individual liberty to the utmost extreme.

Therefore I will support or oppose ideas, concepts and institutions from that perspective.

In some cases, a government or co-op arrangement is the best possible choice, faced with bunch of worse alternatives.

Like private roads that could throw anybody off whenever they felt like, and would end up using some form of force to seize property from people who refused to sell.

[Anti Federalist]

I had never heard of GLONASS,had to look it up.According to Wiki,they have full global service since 2011.Interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS

I'll be damned, I thought they had scrapped that.

[Anti Federalist]

Well, I don't know about that, but I do know that one pastor told pastor Chuck Baldwin that Romans 13 meant that if a cop tries to rape your wife you can't morally protect her. Which is ridiculous.

So, if to devout Christian, that cop is doing the Lord's work, why is my scenario so far fetched then?

And don't get me wrong, I wrote it to be far fetched and over the top, but now you are bringing me information that suggests to me that it wasn't that far off the mark.

[Feeding the Abscess]

Phrase it this way:

What am I in favor of?

I am in favor of maximizing individual liberty to the utmost extreme.

Therefore I will support or oppose ideas, concepts and institutions from that perspective.

In some cases, a government or co-op arrangement is the best possible choice, faced with bunch of worse alternatives.

Like private roads that could throw anybody off whenever they felt like, and would end up using some form of force to seize property from people who refused to sell.

You keep saying this, but that's how it works with government roads, not private roads. How would someone who wanted to build a road remove someone from their property with no government around? The phrase "you and what army?" has never been more applicable than in this situation.

[moostraks]

So, if to devout Christian, that cop is doing the Lord's work, why is my scenario so far fetched then?

And don't get me wrong, I wrote it to be far fetched and over the top, but now you are bringing me information that suggests to me that it wasn't that far off the mark.

The officer wouldn't be doing the Lord's work in that scenario, but if one was to inflict violence to stop violence then they would be culpable for their own actions against the officer. It doesn't necessarily mean that one cannot protect themselves or their loved ones from violence but that how one chooses to do so is important. I was able to get out of a violent conflict years ago that would have been made much more difficult if I would have responded in kind.

[Anti Federalist]

You keep saying this, but that's how it works with government roads, not private roads. How would someone who wanted to build a road remove someone from their property with no government around? The phrase "you and what army?" has never been more applicable than in this situation.

Brother, read your history.

The railroads had, and still have, their own "army".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_police

These guys, that essentially invented the modern concept of cops:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_Government_Services

[Danan]

Stupid article. Some people are already giving their data to companies (voluntarily, in return for goods and services), so it's not a big deal if the government spies on them?

But then somehow it's a big deal if the government takes a huge chunk of our paychecks, even though we already give another huge chunk of it to companies (voluntarily, in return for goods and services)? That makes no sense whatsoever.

The issue is not even so much what they are going to do with the data (even though that is possibly problematic). It's really about them having no right to do what they're doing.

[dillo]

I think Stossel is saying you havn't had privacy in a long time, so why would he get all worked up about about this 1 instance.

[Feeding the Abscess]

Brother, read your history.

The railroads had, and still have, their own "army".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_police

These guys, that essentially invented the modern concept of cops:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_Government_Services

Railroad industries were heavily subsidized by... Lincoln. Not exactly a free market situation there.

In any event, in a free society, you'd have recourse against any such Pinkerton agency, should one arise and attempt to forcefully remove you from your property. With a monopolistic entity like the State, you have no such recourse. It's give up the land, or go to jail. Or resist enough, and get shot.

[Feeding the Abscess]

I think Stossel is saying you havn't had privacy in a long time, so why would he get all worked up about about this 1 instance.

Google or whoever else can't and/or won't throw you in prison or drone strike you for what you do. The government can, and does.

[kcchiefs6465]

As are roads and highways and interstates.
May the government dictate that the fourth amendment doesn't apply there?Or the second?
Considering the DUI checkpoints and seatbelt checkpoints stopping all motorists with no basis for probable cause, I'd say they already have.

Considering that you can't drive with a loaded gun in your car, that is, you must keep the magazine seperate from the gun, I'd say they already have.

May they? They do.

[Anti Federalist]

In any event, in a free society, you'd have recourse against any such Pinkerton agency, should one arise and attempt to forcefully remove you from your property. With a monopolistic entity like the State, you have no such recourse. It's give up the land, or go to jail. Or resist enough, and get shot.

What recourse?

Seriously, I'm not snarking, what would your recourse be against a modern day army of hired goons throwing you off your land so that GlobalHyperMegaHighway Corp. could complete their road?

And then, once having built that road, what is to prevent GlobalHyperMegaHighway Corp. from demanding that only GlobalHyperMegaAutomobiles Corp. vehicles be driven on their road?

And all GlobalHyperMegaAutomobiles have fully integrated tracking and in cabin video and audio surveillance to monitor for compliance with all GlobalHyperMegaHighway Corp's policies...

[kcchiefs6465]

Well then we should advocate ending the government collusion. I'm just not in favor of actually having the government prevent companies from spying on its customers. I'm not saying you support that either; I'm just making clear what my position is.


CIA FRONT COMPANIES

This list has been analyzed thoroughly with no credible explanations ascertaining any falseness. Many of the companies no longer exist but it may give you an inkling as to how diversified the “Company” is. Good reading.

JARII

A.P.I. Distributors, Inc. (A Houston firm involving famous spooks Richard Secord, Thomas Clines, Ted Shackley): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

Actus Technology: Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Aero Associates (suspected, involved in illegal CIA foreign weapon sales): : Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

AID (Agency for International Development - shared facilities with NIA): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Air America: Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Air Asia: Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

American Committee for Liberation (of Cuba): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

American Committee on a United Europe: Jim Hougan, Spooks

American Council of Churches (established by Howard Hunt): Torbitt document, Internet

Anderson Security Associates (Virginia): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Armairco (Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

Arnim Proprietary, Ltd.: Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots Arthur D. Little (hires retired spooks in quantity): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Asia Foundation: Jonathan Kwitney, The Crimes of Patriots

Association of Former Intelligence Officers (AFIO - as the name implies): Mark Lane, Plausible Denial, Jim Hougan, Spooks

Audio Intelligence Devices, Inc. (Ft. Lauderdale -- associated with NIA): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Australian Association for Cultural Freedom: Jonathan Kwitney, The Crimes of Patriots

Australian Association for Cultural Freedom: Jonathan Kwitney, The Crimes of Patriots

B.R. Fox Laboratories (B.R. Fox Company):, Jim Hougan, Spooks

Bahamas Commonwealth Bank (Vesco/IOS company): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Ball, Janik, and Novack (apparant owners of BRS Holding Company, lawyers and key officers for Granville Road Company, both concealed names of EC Distributing): This author№s belief based onexperience and research

Battelle Memorial Institute and other Battelle operations (hires retired spooks in quantity): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Bill (Slick Willy) Clinton (President, and CIA operative): The Spotlight.

Bird Air (the famous William (Wally) Bird): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

Bishop, Baldwin, Rewald, Dillingham and Wong (Hawaii local family names of good reput usurped for financial swindles and other CIA benefit): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

BRS Holding Company (name on property ownership records for, and presumed covert ownership concealment tool of local construction company) This author№s research

Bruce Campbell and Company: Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots CAN (Cult Awareness Network -- an evolution of CIA mind control MK Ultra project which, among onther things,works with and infiltrates legitimate church groups. Was involved in shaping early religious paths of Reverend Tim Jones of Jonestown Massacre and

Caramar (Caribbean Marine Aero Corp.): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Castle Bank and Trust (ties to both Robert Vesco and his junior in CIA financial swindles, Nugan Hand): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

CBS (collusion with CIA to destroy Jim Garrison, access to CIA vote fixing information, pattern of CIA friendly newscasting and coverups): ??? Votescam; Interview with Jim Garrison, Playboy, others

Central Investigative Agency, Jim Hougan, Spooks

Century Special (controled by ICC): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Chalk№s International Airlines (Vesco/IOS company): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Church League of America (shares intelligence dossiers on Americans with CIA proprietaries): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Civil Air Transport: Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Civilian Irregular Defense Group(s): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

Civilian Military Assistance (Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

CMI Investments (evolved into Bishop, Baldwin, Rewald, Dillingham and Wong): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

Coastal Products (subsidiary on trucks of local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research

Cocke and Phillips International (Nugan Hand's direct link to Intel in Washington D.C.): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

Committee for the Defense of National Interests: John Prados, President's Secret Wars

Committee of One Million Against the Admission of Communist China to the United Nations: John Prados, President's Secret Wars Comptrol International (Vesco/CIA/arms smuggler partners): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Computerized Thermal Imaging, Inc. (COII - New local company headed by non other than Richard Secord of Secret Team fame): Local discovery, Oregonian

Corporate Air Services (Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

COSECOIN (Corporate Security Consultants International): Jim Houghan, Spooks

Council on Foreign Relations (CIA bedfellow or, as this work suggests, CIA controller): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Crest Detective Agency (Santa Monica): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Cryogenics, Inc. (controled by Robert Vesco): Jim Hougan, Spooks

DEA (Drug Enforcement Administration -- listed here because its leadership originally included Lou Conein, the CIA man responsible for the massive assassination program, Operation Pheonix, which allowed CIA takeover of the SE Aisian drug supply. Also inv

Defense Services, Inc.: Jim Hougan, Spooks

Defense Systems, International (related to Defense Systems, Inc, found locally?): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Dektor Counterinteligence (Virginia): Jim Hougan, Spooks Directorate of Science and Technology (conduit for CIA work with professors, university departments, and research organizations): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence Double Day and Company (Publisher -- knoeinhly published fraudulent CIA books): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Double-Check Corporation: Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Drew Pearson (reporter, regularly debriefed by CIA): Victor Marchetti, John D. Marks, The CIA And The Cult Of Intelligence

Eagle Aviation Technology and Services (Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

EATSCO (the Egyptian American Transport and Service Company): Daniel Sheenan, on the Secret Team

EC (see also endless EC varients, PGES, Granville Road Company, Idaho Power Systems, Coastal Products, Fouch Electric, Linnco Electric, and law firm of Ball, Janik, and Novak for complete picture)

EC Company (name on file with Corporation Commissioner for local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research

EC Constuction (name on trucks of local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research

EC Distributing (name on building of local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research

EC Distributing (name on corporate office of local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research

EC Engineering (name on secondary buildings of local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research

EC Pulp and Paper (name on secondary building of local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research

EC Technical Services (name on select trucks of local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research

EC Voice and Data (name on select trucks of local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research Edward Bennett Williams, lawyer (believed 3 & 5 "I"s founder): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Electrical Construction (alternating name in Yellow Pages for local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research

Electrical Contractors (alternating name in Yellow Pages for local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research

Electrical Contractors of Oregon (name on tax records of local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research

Encounter (Magazine editor was CIA operative): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Energy Resources (Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

ESI (Electronic Specialties, Inc. -- a Portland area firm controled by ICC): Jim Hougan, Spooks; local TV reporter doing background research on CIA proprietaries involved in PAMCO scandal

Evergreen International Air (deleted from Victor Marchetti№s book by Government censors): Oregonian; John Prados, President's Secret Wars

Export Control Systems: Jim Hougan, Spooks

Fairfield Aviation (controled byICC): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Fidelity Reporting Service (covert background checks on Americans): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Fiduciary Trust Company (Stepchild of IOS): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Foreign Broadcast Informatin Service (monitors radio broadcasts, even of U.S. commercial stations): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Fouch Electric (claimed parent firm of, does business with, conceals property for, and lied to protect local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research

Fredrick A. Praeger (Publisher -- published CIA favorable books at agency request): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Functional Devices, Inc. (Russiaville, In.): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Fund For Peace (headed by spooks): Jim Hougan, Spooks

GEICO (Government Employees Insurance Company - provided NIA with contributions), Jim Hougan, Spooks

Geneva's Exchange and Investment Bank (Vesco controlled): Jim Hougan, Spooks

George Herbert Walker Bush (President, CIA Director, and CIA suspected head of Operation Zapata Bay of Pigs and Kennedy Assassination team and South American Assassinations operating out of Houston in 1963, recieved reports from FBI regarding JFK assassin

George L. Barnes & Associates (Los Angeles): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Gibralter Steamship Corp.: Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Global Financial (Vesco operation): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Golden West Airlines (controled by ICC): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Grace Capital (related to COII): Oregonian Grand Bahama Development Company (Vesco operation): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Grandville Road Company (presumed covert operation and its evolution into unnamed Electrical Construction company): This author№s research Granville Road Company (original front name of local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research

Gray and Company (Public Relations firm working with CIA against American Citizens -- Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

Great American Banks (drug money laundering): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

Gulf Stream, Ltd. (Vesco operation): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Harper and Row, Inc. (publishers, submitted books critical of CIA to CIA for review and censorship prior to publishing): Victor Marchetti, John D. Marks, The CIA And The Cult Of Intelligence Harpoon Harry's (CIA spying on US military on R&R): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

Harrison Salisbury (reporter, regularly debriefed by CIA): Victor Marchetti, John D. Marks, The CIA And The Cult Of Intelligence Harvard University№s Center for International Affairs (files contained minutes of Council on Foreign Relations meetings involving CIA operatives about CIA operations and other national security matters): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cul

Hercules Research Corporation (METC Unit bomb development): Michael Reconoscuito, Ted L. Gunderson, others

Hilary Rodham Clinton (CIA operative): The Spotlight

Hill & Knowlton (Public Relations firm used for CIA disinformation campaigns against American citizens): Johan Carlisle, Public Relationships: Hill & Knowlton, Robert Gray, and the CIA, Spring 1993 issue of CAQ

Hogan & Hartson, legal firm (Edward Bennett Williams firm): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Howard Hughes Medical Institute (involved CIA operated hospital for plastic surgury, recouperations, concealments, and other covert operations, literal and figurative, where CIA's Evergreen flew both Shaw of Iran and Howard Hughes in their last days): Jim Hughes Corporation, Glomar Explorer (CIA project to retrieve sunken Soviet nuclear missiles): Jim Hougan, Spooks

IBM (International Business Machines -- IBM executives have stated they consider themselves an extension of the federal government, all IBM mainframes have back-door accesses available to government snooping, IBM hires large quantities of CIA and other in

ICC (International Controls Corp -- controled by Robert Vesco): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Idaho Power Systems (subsidiary of local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research Idea, Incorporated (Oliver North№s Contra assistance cover): Daniel Sheenan, on the Secret Team

Impossible Electronic Techniques (Russiaville, In.): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Inter-American Capital (Vesco operation): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Inter-Probe, Inc. (METC Unit bomb development): Michael Reconoscuito, Ted L. Gunderson, others

Interarmco (International Armament Corp.): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Intercontinental Industries (controled by ICC): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Intermountain Aviation: Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

International Bancorp, Ltd (Vesco/IOS company): Jim Hougan, Spooks

International Business Communications (Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

International Credit Bank of Switzerland (headed by WWII inteligence operative with more ties to Mossad and Bilderbergers than CIA, but worked closely with Vesco and IOS): Jim Hougan, Spooks

International Investigators, Inc. (started by Robert Peloquin, presumed architect of the Three I№s and Five I№s project portrayed in this book): Jim Hougan, Spooks

International Police Services (INPOLSE -- an NIA equivalent dealing more with forgeign law enforcement agencies): Jim Hougan, Spooks International Research and Trade Corporation (later became EATSCO): Daniel Sheenan, on the Secret Team

Intertel (International Intelligence Incorporated started by Robert Peloquin, presumed architect of the Three I№s and Five I№s project portrayed in this book), Jim Hougan, Spooks Investair Leasing (Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

IOS (Investor№s Overseas Services -- prone to investing client monies into nefarious CIA projects -- later іlootedІ by Robert Vesco): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

ITT (International Telephone and Telegraph -- collusion with CIA to destoy South American governments and take over telecommunications systems): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Jack Anderson (history of publishing sensitive information helpful to CIA projects, close ties to Intel community): Watergate Plumbers got their start thanks to him, for instance.

John P. Muldoon Detective Agency (Katharine Graham№s prefered agency): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Joseph Alsop (reporter, regularly debriefed by CIA): Victor Marchetti, John D. Marks, The CIA And The Cult Of Intelligence

Joseph Z. Taylor & Associates (Drug smuggling -- documents CIA agents being busted with 50 lbs of drugs but released with drugs at CIA request): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Kenyon Electronics (controled by ICC): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Kilmory Investments, Ltd (Vesco/IOS bedfellow): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Lake Resources (Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

Law Enforcement Assistance Administration (Federal agency so infiltrated with retired CIA that it must truly be said that CIA has strong influance on policy and field-level law enforcement personnel): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Law Enforcement Intelligence Unit (fraternaty of cops who have attended NIA): Daniel Sheenan, on the Secret Team

Linking Progressive Corp., S.A. (Vesco operation): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Linnco Electric (subsidiary of local construction company front): This author№s belief based onexperience and research

Look Magazine (made changes in articles from republished works critical of CIA at CIA direction): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Management Safeguards, Inc. (New York): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Center for International Studies (funded by CIA and prepared CIA backed think-tank reports): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence McCord Associates (of Watergate fame, with offices in Mayland and Houston -- George Bush№s stomping grounds): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Mercantile Bank and Trust Company: Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

Meridian Arms (METC Unit bomb development): Michael Reconoscuito, Ted L. Gunderson, others

Miami Daily News (employed Nobel Prize winner and known friend of CIA, Hal Hendrix, who wrote articles using CIA supplied information): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Michigan State University (used to operate a clandestine police training facility in South Vietnam): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Military Armaments Corp. (Ingram machine gun іMAC-10І mfg): Jim Hougan, Spooks

MITRE Corporation (hires retired spooks in quantity): Jim Hougan, Spooks

National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse (operation of hit-squads to assassinate competing drug lords): Jim Hougan, Spooks National Committee for a Free Europe: Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

National Endowment for the Preservation of Liberty (Oliver North Iran-Contra -- not truly a front, but operated for CIA benefit): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

National Intelligence Academy, (NIA, now the Liddy Institute), Jim Hougan, Spooks

National Railways Security Bureau, Inc.: Jim Hougan, Spooks

National Student Association (funded by CIA): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

New York Times (collusion with CIA to cover up CIA crimes, CIA freindly reporting, knowingly publishing CIA supplied articles containing slander without confirming facts): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence; others

Newsweek (willingly published CIA promotional and dissinformation articles): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Norman Jaspan Associates (New York - 500 employees): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Norman Jaspen & Associates: Jim Hougan, Spooks

Nugan Fruit Group (Drug operations): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

Nugan Hand Bank (Principle arm of CIA's Michael Hand swindles and drug operations): Jonathan Kwitney, The Crimes of Patriots

Omni Spectra, Inc. (Tempe, Az.): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Orange Spot (Soft drink company used for money laundering): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

Overseas Southeast Asia Supply Company (Sea Supply): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

Pacific Corporation: Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence; John Prados, President's Secret Wars

PAMCO (Pacific Aircraft Maintenance Company -- a swindel of $60M in state employee retirement funds through Pacific Corp. and involving Evergreen Aviation. Site now operating as іAMCІ with considerable secrecy. A similar company has been established in Paradise Island Casino (at one time, a Vesco operation with exotic partners in organized crime, religious leaders, and presidential bedfellows -- an a casino where this author played a single $5 roulette bet and, upon wining, let it ride to win again -- a PGES (presumed covert operations as Portland General Energy Systems -- claimed to be division of Portland General Electric, denied by PGE. Vanished after discovery): This author№s belief based on experience and research

Phoenix Financial (Vesco operation): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Price Waterhouse (not a true front, but certified obviously fraudulent books for CIA fronts): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

Project Democracy (Oliver North Iran-Contra): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Project Democracy (Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

Property Resources, Ltd. (Vesco operation): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Quantum Corp (not the hard drive maker): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Radio Americas: Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Radio Free Europe: Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Radio Liberty: Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Radio Swan: Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Rapid-American Corp. (Vesco-IOS related): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Red Pearl Bay, S.A. (Vesco operation): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Resorts International (Parent of Intertel): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Robert A. Maheu Associates (of Howard Hughes fame): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Robert R. Mullen Company (Howard Hughes funded, CIA operated with Larry O№Brien of DNC/Watergate fame involvements -- significant since the Mullen Company helped the Watergate burglers bug O№Brien№s DNC office, leading one to ask if we should believe the Santa Elena (Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

SECOIN (Security Consultants International): Jim Hougan, Spooks Service Observance Bureau of The Bell System (conducts unregulated wiretaps of clients - 175,000 in Manhattan alone in one year -- shared freely with inteligence community): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Sheffield Edwards & Associates (Virginia): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Shenandoah Airleasing (Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

SIONICS (Ingram machine gun developer): Jim Hougan, Spooks Soldier of Fortune (started by intel types and heavy employer of former intel types - walks the fine line of exposing and protecting intel criminal activities): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Southern Air Transport: Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Spectre Security Products (Orange, Ca.): Jim Hougan, Spooks

St. Lucia Airways (Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

Standard Commerz Bank of Switzerland (Vesco controlled): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Stanford Technology Trading Group International (STTGI -- Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

Streamlight, Inc. (King of Prussia, Pa.): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Sullivan & Cromwell (legal firm repeatedly involved in CIA interests): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

Summit Aviation (Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

The Aquatic Club: Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

The Bourbon and Beefsteak Bar and Restaurant (CIA spying on US military on R&R): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

The Broyhill Building (Arlington -- houses CIA training facility): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

The Law Association for Asia and the Western Pacific: Jonathan Kwitney, The Crimes of Patriots

The Second National Bank of Homstead (Florida -- drug money laundering): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

The Texas Tavern (CIA spying on US military on R&R): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

The Washington Monthly (ex-intel agent and columnist Chritopher Pyle writes article exposing military intelligence blunders in an area CIA wishes to have more control): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

The World Finance Corporation (the largest narcotics investigation of the decade (70's) against this firm was dropped at CIA request): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

Time Magazine (knowingly hired CIA operatives as reporters, edited/killed stories at CIA direction, obtained intelligence information for stories from CIA after White House had denied access): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intell

Tom Braden, syndicated columnist and anti-JFK conspiracy author: Jim Hougan, Spooks

Tractron (Vienna, Va.): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Trade Winds Motel (part of NIA, and sharing the same name as Operation

Trade Winds, a project involving Robert Peloquin an Robert Vesco interests), Jim Hougan, Spooks

Trident Bank (Vesco operation): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Udall Corp. (Oliver North Iran-Contra): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

United Fruit Company (the whole reason for the war in Guatemala, and steeped in CIA activities, including leadership by John Foster Dulles, former OSS): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

Unnamed Exxon subsidary (CIA merged with Venezuela company to the advantage of both): Jim Hougan, Spooks

USAID (Agency for International Development - shared facilities with NIA): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence



USIA (United States Information Agency): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

USIA Weapon Sales (a former local Portland area gun store), Author, personal investigation

Vanguard Service Corporation: Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Vector, Ltd. (Vesco operation): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Venture Fund (Vesco operation): Jim Hougan, Spooks

Wackenhut: Jim Hougan: Jim Hougan, Spooks; Michael Riconosciuto, Wackenhut/CIA operative

Washington Post (intel veteran and columnist Stewart Alsop and other writers profer CIA profitable articles): Victor Marchetti/John D. Marks, The CIA and The Cult of Intelligence

Western International Ground Maintenance Organization (WIGMO): John Prados, President's Secret Wars

William F. Buckley (former CIA agent, now media giant): Mark Lane, Plausible Denial

World Marine, Inc. (Douglas Schlachter and Opal document related): Johathan Kwitny, The Crimes Of Patriots

Zapato Off-Shore Oil Company (George Bush front, Houston, 1963): Mark Lane, Plausible Denial

Zapato Petroleum Corp. (George Bush front, Houston,1963): Mark Lane, Plausible Denial

Zenith Technical Enterprizes (Bay of Pigs command central operating on the University of Miami campus): John Prados, President's Secret Wars


And probably Facebook and/or Google.

Don't be naive.

[Feeding the Abscess]

What recourse?

Seriously, I'm not snarking, what would your recourse be against a modern day army of hired goons throwing you off your land so that GlobalHyperMegaHighway Corp. could complete their road?

And then, once having built that road, what is to prevent GlobalHyperMegaHighway Corp. from demanding that only GlobalHyperMegaAutomobiles Corp. vehicles be driven on their road?

And all GlobalHyperMegaAutomobiles have fully integrated tracking and in cabin video and audio surveillance to monitor for compliance with all GlobalHyperMegaHighway Corp's policies...

It's not cost effective to have a private army. Armies are expensive. Pinkerton agents existed because railroad businesses were extremely subsidized by the government, so the resources that otherwise would have been used on operating costs instead were funneled elsewhere. Additionally, if a Pinkerton group were to come into existence, a market need for an agency or multiple agencies that offer protection against said "army" would be filled. If it would be financially viable for a group to act like thugs, it'd be profitable for a group to offer protection against said thugs.

Also, limiting use of roads to only GlobalHyperMega vehicles would leave them with zero revenue. They'd pay their workers to drive on their roads, with the money going back to the business, and that money will have to be used to repair the roads. In other words, if the army didn't bankrupt them, this surely would.

The surveillance is also extremely expensive.

Government can only do this sort of stuff because it expropriates everybody at the barrel of a gun. What you're describing as a nightmare scenario in a private property society is the reality of government today. So, even in your nightmare, the worst we'll end up with is what we have now. Taken with my previous arguments in this post, what is there to lose?

[Anti Federalist]

And probably Facebook and/or Google.

Don't be naive.

Wow, even I didn't think the list was that long...and that is just one of the spook agencies that is public.

For years the very existence of NSA was denied.

No Such Agency it was called.

[mad cow]

Considering the DUI checkpoints and seatbelt checkpoints stopping all motorists with no basis for probable cause, I'd say they already have.

Considering that you can't drive with a loaded gun in your car, that is, you must keep the magazine seperate from the gun, I'd say they already have.

May they? They do.

Yep.And these battles must be fought,relentlessly,on all fronts,and won by all who love Liberty.

[mad cow]

I think Stossel is saying you havn't had privacy in a long time, so why would he get all worked up about about this 1 instance.

We haven't had meat in our gruel at this FEMA camp for ages.Quit yer bellyachin'.

[TruckinMike]

What does the NSA have on John Stossel that we don't know about?

[kcchiefs6465]

Yep.And these battles must be fought,relentlessly,on all fronts,and won by all who love Liberty.
I'm sure everyone here knows this but I'll say it anyways... The Supreme Court doesn't love liberty.

What's the recourse?

And for people who are saying well I don't mind if it is a private company doing it that is a defeatist attitude. They will set up a private company just for you. And the Supreme Court will mutter something about public safety. Then, it 20 something years it will be normalized and people will become complacent. How it was would be considered 'outdated' in the new age of threats or 'radical.' Think of the musket argument with regards to the Second Amendment.

More and more Liberty erodes daily. The republican mindset is that it is fine if a corporation does it. Fuck that. I have a privacy right simply by being. No corporations or government ought be able to encroach on that.

[kcchiefs6465]

Wow, even I didn't think the list was that long...and that is just one of the spook agencies that is public.

For years the very existence of NSA was denied.

No Such Agency it was called.
Trust and believe it is a lot longer than that.

LLCs set up for specific missions then closed down. Proxies around the world.

It's incredible how much money they can waste to rape third world nations and overthrow governments.

[anaconda]

Boy it really is on issues like this where the wheat is separated from the chaff.


Catherine Austin Fitts specifically pointed out Stossel as controlled opposition in an interview a couple of years ago. She gives a very good example of this at 38:30 in the following video. I suggest watching at least 37:20 to 39:16 for context, although this entire video is one of my all time favorites. She mentions Stossel again between 41:10 - 41:33 in conjunction with the disinfo strategy "modified hang out."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oUlQ7vElqqo

[Anti Federalist]

More and more Liberty erodes daily. The republican mindset is that it is fine if a corporation does it. Fuck that. I have a privacy right simply by being. No corporations or government ought be able to encroach on that.

Huzzah!

Have some more rep.

[Anti Federalist]

///

[cajuncocoa]

I'd much rather be watched by a private business than the government.

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE IN 21st CENTURY AMUR'CA? (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-14/u-s-agencies-said-to-swap-data-with-thousands-of-firms.html)

[green73]

Maybe next he can groupie for Bruce Springsteen.

What was that story Green posted about normalization? Perhaps people ought to take heed to the liberties already lost, the power from the people already usurped, instead of blindly saying, "Meh, I post shit I shouldn't to fedbook so what's the difference?" The American spirit is gone, too gone. As a man half of most your ages what the fuck happened?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?417685-James-Corbett-nails-it-The-Transformation-of-Society

[helmuth_hubener]

Stossel, Stossel, Stossel. What are you doing? I thought you were a good guy.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

If I read his article correctly Stossel never said the NSA is 'our friend' or for other libertarians to 'pipe down', he is just saying that the NSA issue did not upset him as much as it did other libertarians.

[Occam's Banana]

At least Google can't wiretap your phone. They are subject to the same laws as the rest of us.

Bullshit. Tell it to AT&T and Verizon, who were granted retroactive immunity for violating the law when they illegally "assisted" the NSA with electronic surveillance. "Subject to the same laws as the rest of us" my ass ...

[donnay]

Stossel, Stossel, Stossel. What are you doing? I thought you were a good guy.



http://vimeo.com/67889828

John Stossel didn't really do much investigative reporting--he was a REAL disappointment to me as well with regards to exposing GMO's.

Monsanto Whistleblower Says Genetically Engineered Crops May Cause Disease
http://www.responsibletechnology.org/fraud/silencing-critics/Monsanto-Whistleblower-Says-Genetically-Engineered-Crops-May-Cause-Disease-August-2006

Anniversary of a Whistleblowing Hero
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-smith/anniversary-of-a-whistleb_b_675817.html

Registered Dietitian Dismissed from Panel Researching GMO Nutrition for Pointing out Other Members Ties to Monsanto
http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/registered-dietitian-dismissed-from-panel-researching-gmo-nutrition-for-pointing-out-other-members-ties-to-monsanto/

BioTech Lies Exposed: Genetically Modified Corn is Loaded with Chemical Poisons
http://www.globalresearch.ca/biotech-lies-exposed-genetically-modified-corn-kills-its-loaded-with-chemical-poisons/5330747

BioTech Lies Exposed: GMO Corn Contains Practically No Nutrients, Loaded with Chemical Poisons
https://leaksource.wordpress.com/2013/04/11/biotech-lies-exposed-gmo-corn-contains-practically-no-nutrients-loaded-with-chemical-poisons/

[Madison320]

If I read his article correctly Stossel never said the NSA is 'our friend' or for other libertarians to 'pipe down', he is just saying that the NSA issue did not upset him as much as it did other libertarians.

I agree. He's wrong to compare Google to the NSA but my guess is if you confronted him he would agree he was wrong.

My feeling is while this NSA stuff is totally wrong, it's way down on the list of likely ways the government is really going to screw you. As Stossel said by far the number one is the debt. My wealth is being confiscated RIGHT NOW and it's going to get much, much worse. I'd say next on the list would be victimless crime laws against drugs, prostitution and gambling. There's a very real danger of having your life torn apart by these laws. Compare that to the chances of the NSA messing with you because of your phone records. Again I'm not saying it's ok, just that we're already being screwed much worse.

[moostraks]

I agree. He's wrong to compare Google to the NSA but my guess is if you confronted him he would agree he was wrong.

My feeling is while this NSA stuff is totally wrong, it's way down on the list of likely ways the government is really going to screw you. As Stossel said by far the number one is the debt. My wealth is being confiscated RIGHT NOW and it's going to get much, much worse. I'd say next on the list would be victimless crime laws against drugs, prostitution and gambling. There's a very real danger of having your life torn apart by these laws. Compare that to the chances of the NSA messing with you because of your phone records. Again I'm not saying it's ok, just that we're already being screwed much worse.


In light of the fact that you see the debt as being the biggest issue. Do you think there is any possibility there will be an economic collapse? In the event of an economic collapse how beneficial would it be to have a list of political dissidents formulated through this spying upon which one could create a target list to silence opposition of any new policies esp. if one could use said list to find the bright dissidents who could prevent them from ushering in even worse economic policies then we have now. This is a problem NOW not after it has been used to silence opposition and proven itself to be as dangerous as it proposes to be.

[Anti Federalist]

If I read his article correctly Stossel never said the NSA is 'our friend' or for other libertarians to 'pipe down', he is just saying that the NSA issue did not upset him as much as it did other libertarians.

....


1. Terrorists do want to murder us. If the NSA is halfway competent, Big Data should help detect plots.

He ceded the main point: that government can spy on, well, everything, as long as it is to keep you safe.

In Stossel's case, he argues for cost effective, budget conscious, lean spending tyranny.

Which, to my way of thinking, is even worse than the slothful, wasteful and inefficient tyranny we have now.

Regardless, it is a major failure on Stossel's part.

[Anti Federalist]

I'd say next on the list would be victimless crime laws against drugs, prostitution and gambling. There's a very real danger of having your life torn apart by these laws. Compare that to the chances of the NSA messing with you because of your phone records. Again I'm not saying it's ok, just that we're already being screwed much worse.

Sweet weeping Jesus on The Cross...what do you think they are building this Matrix grid FOR????!!!

You don't honestly think it is for capturing ululating Jihadists do you?

This. System. Is. For. Us.

This system will be used to punish, harshly, incidents of non-compliance with the laws you just mentioned, and millions more that no normal person can comprehend, let alone comply with.

Millions of lives, (millions more than have already been ruined by the prison/industrial complex) will be torn apart.

Everybody else will live in constant fear of the hammer falling at any moment, and tip toeing, shut mouth, compliance.

You. Have. Something. To. Hide.

Trust me...we all do, myself included.

When the velvet glove comes off this iron fist, God help us all.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/fighting/bash-head.gif

[Madison320]

In light of the fact that you see the debt as being the biggest issue. Do you think there is any possibility there will be an economic collapse? In the event of an economic collapse how beneficial would it be to have a list of political dissidents formulated through this spying upon which one could create a target list to silence opposition of any new policies esp. if one could use said list to find the bright dissidents who could prevent them from ushering in even worse economic policies then we have now. This is a problem NOW not after it has been used to silence opposition and proven itself to be as dangerous as it proposes to be.

I agree with everything you say, and I think there's going to be an economic collapse, but it's all relative. I'm not ready to throw Stossel under the bus for it. I still think he's an ally when it comes to freedom. If you get too nit picky you'll end up hating everybody.

Here's a question for you. Suppose you could choose between only one of two options. Either that the federal government would never spend more than it takes in and limit taxes to a flat tax of 1% or that the federal government would never keep track of phone conversations. Which would you choose?

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

I'm late to the party, but that was one ugly stossel fail.

[juleswin]

Oh yea, this is the same Stossel that said it was just find and dandy to drop 2 Atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The man is completely totalitarian on some key issues.

[jclay2]

Uneffing believable. I thought he was on our side. Looks like his liberal totalitarian tendencies never truly left him.

[moostraks]

I agree with everything you say, and I think there's going to be an economic collapse, but it's all relative. I'm not ready to throw Stossel under the bus for it. I still think he's an ally when it comes to freedom. If you get too nit picky you'll end up hating everybody.

Here's a question for you. Suppose you could choose between only one of two options. Either that the federal government would never spend more than it takes in and limit taxes to a flat tax of 1% or that the federal government would never keep track of phone conversations. Which would you choose?

It is not just tracking phone numbers. It is a complete surveillance grid. I want my privacy because with the grid they can track your every move and it will be used to demand compliance to all the asinine laws we are drowning under. Come in the crosshairs with the surveillance grid and you will be punished. No one is able to be completely within the law on all grounds nowadays. You will lose your family and everything you own. My family is worth more than the tax burden and to a certain extent without the constant surveillance one has some ability to thwart them.

[kcchiefs6465]

I agree with everything you say, and I think there's going to be an economic collapse, but it's all relative. I'm not ready to throw Stossel under the bus for it. I still think he's an ally when it comes to freedom. If you get too nit picky you'll end up hating everybody.

Here's a question for you. Suppose you could choose between only one of two options. Either that the federal government would never spend more than it takes in and limit taxes to a flat tax of 1% or that the federal government would never keep track of phone conversations. Which would you choose?
My mind does not work on those terms. It isn't either or. I want personal freedom, economic freedom, etc. We have a fundamentally flawed government if we have to choose between which way we like to get fucked.

In your scenario though I would choose the 1% flat tax. I would then work to get a program to encrypt every aspect of my life. Though perhaps I was naive as a child, but I thought this was America. You know, we were exceptional. It is more apparent day by day that I was mislead if not flat out lied to. Especially when I am proposed hypotheticals of which way I like to be fucked. (not yours.. but the MSM narrative)

[jclay2]

Sweet weeping Jesus on The Cross...what do you think they are building this Matrix grid FOR????!!!

You don't honestly think it is for capturing ululating Jihadists do you?

This. System. Is. For. Us.

This system will be used to punish, harshly, incidents of non-compliance with the laws you just mentioned, and millions more that no normal person can comprehend, let alone comply with.

Exactly This. Connect the dots people. Look at the technology they are developing and see the true monster for what it is:

1. Facial recognition algorithms. Check
2. 24 Hour a day drones That can survey a whole city. Check.
3. Databases that merge all communications/financial transactions in your life. Check.

Can't you people see. They are getting to the point where they will know everything about each and every one of us with a 99.99999% accuracy as well as 1 million hours of actual video footage documenting your entire life from 0 to 80 years old. And if you drop out of the system, a flag goes up to take you out. Wake the hell up! 1984 is here and now.

[matt0611]

Stossel usually comes from a utilitarian and efficiency type of libertarianism and not the moral / natural rights type of position. So I'm not entirely surprised by this.

Oh well, Stossel is usually pretty good, but he's way off here for sure.

I still respect him for how he has treated Ron Paul, even having him on to mock debate an Obama impersonator.

[Anti Federalist]

Here's a question for you. Suppose you could choose between only one of two options. Either that the federal government would never spend more than it takes in and limit taxes to a flat tax of 1% or that the federal government would never keep track of phone conversations. Which would you choose?

No surveillance, without question.

Yeah, sure, my taxes would go down, so I would have more money in my pocket to gild my cage with.

You are not any kind of free person, living in any kind of free society, if your every move is under surveillance.

[A Son of Liberty]

No surveillance, without question.

Yeah, sure, my taxes would go down, so I would have more money in my pocket to gild my cage with.

You are not any kind of free person, living in any kind of free society, if your every move is under surveillance.

Correct; although it's a false proposition. There's no way the state wouldn't make use of the money it pilfers from you in spying on you. You've already told them you have no self-respect by submitting to their theft. At this point, there's no moral objection to them zooming in on you during your most intimate, personal moments.

You've already submitted to be their bitch. So lie there and take it, you worthless little slut.

[Anti Federalist]

Correct; although it's a false proposition. There's no way the state wouldn't make use of the money it pilfers from you in spying on you. You've already told them you have no self-respect by submitting to their theft. At this point, there's no moral objection to them zooming in on you during your most intimate, personal moments.

You've already submitted to be their bitch. So lie there and take it, you worthless little slut.

Quite right.

Yes sir.

[dannno]

Boy it really is on issues like this where the wheat is separated from the chaff.


Isn't Hannity on our side on this one?

Actually, I happened to watch Fox News the other day and I'll tell you: Hannity is at least acting like he is on our side on this one.

I disagree with John, I think he's downplaying it. But he does seem to generally be on our side, he said Rand was correct for fighting this battle he just seems to be making the point that it isn't on his top 5 things that he is worried about. I agree it should be on his list of top 5 things to be worried about.

[Occam's Banana]

Can it really be that Stossel and, apparently, even some of us here at RPFs (of all places!) have so quickly forgotten the once-so-hot-now-so-not IRS scandal? You know. The one where a government agency deliberately singled out politically dissident individuals & groups for "investigation" and differential treatment. That one. Ring any bells? Anybody?

Are Stossel & friends so desperately in need of a good hard thrashing with the cluestick that they are unable to grasp the implications & ramifications of the IRS scandal with respect to the the potential for the same kind of abuses by some other government agency - like, oh, say ... the NSA ?!?! (just to pick one agency completely at random)

Say ... speaking of the NSA: hasn't there been something going on in the news about them, lately? What was it, now? Ah, hell, I can't remember! Oh, well. Whatever it was, it was probably nothing important. I'm sure it's nothing we need to worry about at all ...

SMMFH.

Hello, McFly! Hello!!!


Sweet weeping Jesus on The Cross...what do you think they are building this Matrix grid FOR????!!!

You don't honestly think it is for capturing ululating Jihadists do you?

This. System. Is. For. Us.

This system will be used to punish, harshly, incidents of non-compliance with the laws you just mentioned, and millions more that no normal person can comprehend, let alone comply with.

Millions of lives, (million more than have already been ruined by the prison/industrial complex) will be torn apart.

Everybody else will live in constant fear of the hammer falling at any moment, and tip toeing, shut mouth, compliance.

You. Have. Something. To. Hide.

Trust me...we all do, myself included.

When the velvet glove comes off this iron fist, God help us all.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/fighting/bash-head.gif

[heavenlyboy34]

/facepalm @ Stossel
I am disappoint in your fail, sir.
http://www.vozlatino.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/FAIL.jpg

[emazur]

Very disappointing and unexpected. Contrary to the statement in the LRC article, I've always found Stossel to be very much against the police state - watch any clip when he has Radley Balko on and you'll see. This is a definite knock against him and I'll be watching for other statist opinions from him now

[Anti Federalist]

Isn't Hannity on our side on this one?

Actually, I happened to watch Fox News the other day and I'll tell you: Hannity is at least acting like he is on our side on this one.

I disagree with John, I think he's downplaying it. But he does seem to generally be on our side, he said Rand was correct for fighting this battle he just seems to be making the point that it isn't on his top 5 things that he is worried about. I agree it should be on his list of top 5 things to be worried about.

Yup.

He'll be back onboard once Team Red is in the lead.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?418020-Hannity-Then-and-now-on-NSA-surveillance&p=5076125#post5076125

[Anti Federalist]

I disagree with John, I think he's downplaying it. But he does seem to generally be on our side, he said Rand was correct for fighting this battle he just seems to be making the point that it isn't on his top 5 things that he is worried about. I agree it should be on his list of top 5 things to be worried about.

Again, let me post this:


1. Terrorists do want to murder us. If the NSA is halfway competent, Big Data should help detect plots.

That indicates to me a glaring, fundamental failure of understanding of what this is all about.

This is not about building a more lean and cost efficient surveillance state.

It is about not having a surveillance state.

[cajuncocoa]

Isn't Hannity on our side on this one?


I wouldn't put it that way. As AF said, he'll be back on Team Red if/when the GOP reclaim the White House.

Hannity's not so much on our side as he is against Obama. Before 2009, he never said one word about all the abuses Dubya was doing.

[helmuth_hubener]

http://vimeo.com/67889828

John Stossel didn't really do much investigative reporting--he was a REAL disappointment to me as well with regards to exposing GMO's.

Monsanto Whistleblower Says Genetically Engineered Crops May Cause Disease
http://www.responsibletechnology.org/fraud/silencing-critics/Monsanto-Whistleblower-Says-Genetically-Engineered-Crops-May-Cause-Disease-August-2006

Anniversary of a Whistleblowing Hero
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-smith/anniversary-of-a-whistleb_b_675817.html

Registered Dietitian Dismissed from Panel Researching GMO Nutrition for Pointing out Other Members Ties to Monsanto
http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/registered-dietitian-dismissed-from-panel-researching-gmo-nutrition-for-pointing-out-other-members-ties-to-monsanto/

BioTech Lies Exposed: Genetically Modified Corn is Loaded with Chemical Poisons
http://www.globalresearch.ca/biotech-lies-exposed-genetically-modified-corn-kills-its-loaded-with-chemical-poisons/5330747

BioTech Lies Exposed: GMO Corn Contains Practically No Nutrients, Loaded with Chemical Poisons
https://leaksource.wordpress.com/2013/04/11/biotech-lies-exposed-gmo-corn-contains-practically-no-nutrients-loaded-with-chemical-poisons/

None of these have anything to do with John Stossel, nor the NSA, nor anything else being discussed in this thread. I even skimmed through one of them to make sure. Not a word about Stossel. Thank you so much for going to the effort of doing whatever it is you think you're doing, though. Cheers!

[helmuth_hubener]

It's just a strange article to write. If you're just not worked up about it, why go to the effort to write an article about how you're not worked up? I'm not writing Stossel off entirely -- at least he does have the right view on this, technically, that is that it's bad. But boy, why write "yeah, it's bad, and good for those fighting it, but I just don't care." Why not pretend to care and join them in fighting it, if only for the ratings?

I will say that I kind of understand Stossel, the way he is and thinks, and doing stuff like this is just one of those things that's what he does. He is very honest and open in his stands and he likes to take unexpected or eclectic stands based on reason and research. This is one of those surprising stands. But Stossel is still one of the good guys.

The worst thing was definitely the point about Big Data maybe could stop a terrorist. Lame. But I'll bet he'd backtrack on that if someone called him on it. I don't think he really believes that, with all its implications.

[bunklocoempire]

:(

[satchelmcqueen]

wow im disappointing.

[newbitech]

So basically the attitude goes something like this.

The **** is already in my *** so they may as well keep ****ing me, besides if I wasn't tied down here with my face in the floor and my hands behind my back I probably wouldn't have seen the dust bunnies collecting in the corner. Man, I hate dust bunnies!

[Anti Federalist]

So basically the attitude goes something like this.

The **** is already in my *** so they may as well keep ****ing me, besides if I wasn't tied down here with my face in the floor and my hands behind my back I probably wouldn't have seen the dust bunnies collecting in the corner. Man, I hate dust bunnies!

Perfect analogy.

[Carson]

I wonder if people would take this differently if they lived somewhere else where they didn't have any representation in this matter.

Imagine coming home finding someone from another country sfnifnig through your wife's urnwdeaer darewr in the name of their national security.

[Anti Federalist]

The Machinery of Oppression

Posted by Michael S. Rozeff on June 14, 2013 06:08 PM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/139635.html

Whether it's the Gallup or Pew poll of Americans on surveillance, there is not a rock hard super-majority that is against the surveillance state.

Americans haven't experienced the possible downsides of a state that can go back years to hear and read their most private communications.

They are blissfully unaware of the workings of police states and the role played by the state's possession of files on everyone. They do not understand that when the blackness of the human heart is combined with the control of such vast information sources, the most horrible oppression results.

They cannot imagine the horrible workings of suspicion, greed, envy, snitches, and hatred, or the workings of the reformers, the religious, the utopians, the social planners, the intellectuals, the power-hungry and the idealists when they gain such power.

They do not understand that when the machinery of oppression and dominance is rolled into place, and this includes access to private information on anyone and everyone, that all it takes is a pull of the switch -- a crisis, real or manufactured -- for Congress to pass a law that turns on the police state.

They do not understand that once it is turned on, the nation must go through the wringer to get it turned off, and that could take generations.

Dismantle the machinery of oppression now! It is much easier to do it now, than later, and it is already very hard to do this even now.

[The Free Hornet]

Simple as that. If you're uncomfortable with Google's privacy policies, just use a different search. But there is no way you can opt out of NSA surveilance program.

Ironically, John Stossel told you exactly how to "opt out":


2. My electronic privacy has already been utterly shredded by Google, Amazon, YouTube and so on.

He could add AT&T, Comcast/XFinity, Yahoo, Verizon, Sprint, and all the others. Any data you give to them or have them transmit unencrypted can and will be given to the NSA and others.

Cease your business with these entities, and the NSA's job becomes a LOT harder.


The reason why private companies collect data is to make their services better.

This is where it is good to be a classically trained Objectivist. The motivation for corporate action is profit. This doesn't make the action good or bad, I'm just throwing some fucking reality in your face. They'd make the service worse if they see more profit in it (by some metric, short or long term).

I may disagree with Stossel but he ought to be commended for having the balls to stand against group think. Some people here care more about civil liberties/war on drugs and other more about the Federal Reserve/foreign wars.

Stossel has a point largely missed by pro-corporate types. You will not improve the situation by trusting Google/Facebook/et cetera. I'm not suggesting you regulate them, but that you cease your business with them as they will shred your privacy. Now we know a little more about the extent to which they will shred it (or, rather, have confirmation of what has been suspected for years). BFD. If his panties aren't twisted in a knot, maybe he saw this coming.

[helmuth_hubener]

In all honesty, for years now we have all assumed they're recording/monitoring all phone calls and e-mails. Haven't we? I have. This isn't really a new revelation for us libertarian types. It's just great to have proof that's getting all this mainstream attention. That exposure is what's wonderful about what Mr. Snowden did.

[DamianTV]

NSA is stopping terrorists? Theyre probably the very same ones that piss off the terrorists to begin with! The NSA would most likely be the group responsible for fixing foreign elections which ends up putting people the NSA chooses in power that pisses off the terrorists to begin with.

PROBLEM

REACTION

SOLUTION

---

The Better Mousetrap Fallacy

Too many people think that INVENTIONS require someone to come up with a SOLUTION first. Better mouse trap. The Better Mouse Trap fallacy supposes that the problems are natural and have always existed. Terrorism is the exact opposite of what we would call a Naturally Existing Problem. Terrorism is Artificial. Im not saying it is Fake; just saying that it is a choice by people to commit such atrocities. The way the NSA thinks is to not invent SOLUTIONS first, but to invent PROBLEMS to which only they will have the SOLUTION. If the NSA wanted to say for example, start a war with Canada, their SOLUTION would be war with Canada. Thats their "Invention". Then, they'd do everything in their power to provoke Canadians as much as possible so that Canada would attack us first. The Americans would follow the Problem of having been attacked by Canadian Terrorists, which would be our Reaction to the Problem, and the solution, of course, war on Canada. Actually, that is probably a poor example because there would be two sets of Problems Reactions and Solutions. Pissing off Canada would be the Problem for them. They would have a Reaction to our actions, and conclude Terrorism on the US is the Solution. This creates the chain. We would be attacked. Problem. We'd React and conclude attack Canada as the Solution. Same thing with Banks. Same thing with Gun Control. Destablize a person to shoot someone else, then try to make Guns illegal. Same thing with Drugs and Alcohol. Paint them as the Problem to which their solution (that benefits them) is to imprison drug and alcohol users. Same thing with "dumb people". Solution: Govt Education. Same thing pretty much everywhere. Invent a better mouse (more invasive, breeds quicker, aggressive, and easily recognized as a problem), then people will go for what ever mouse traps are available, regardless of how shitty of a mousetrap it is or who buying the solution benefits.

Summary: NSA doesnt invent Solutions. It invents Problems that only it can provide Solutions.

[Anti Federalist]

////

[Anti Federalist]

///

[DamianTV]

Hey Stossel, define Terrorist

Do you mean Lone Wolf, or do you mean Goldman Sachs Market Manipulators and Economy Crashers?

[Root]

John Stossel went full retard. You never go full retard.




John Stossel
about an hour ago
People now call me a “traitor to Libertarian ideals” and “disgusting” because I’m “not that worked up” (http://www.creators.com/opinion/john-stossel/terror-and-safety.html) about NSA spying.


Maybe I’m naive, but I don’t totally dismiss the government’s claim that data-mining is constitutional and may stop terrorism. This debate has two sides. There are at least 100 things government does that do make me furious:


https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1004580_10151425079126621_2095569789_n.png

[kahless]

How I felt when I first saw this thread.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-MfVBPcT3M

[EBounding]

My respect for Stossel has vanished.

[trey4sports]

Not a "total phony," just wrong on this issue.

[anaconda]

My respect for Stossel has vanished.

Seriously, check this out:

Catherine Austin Fitts specifically pointed out Stossel as controlled opposition in an interview. She gives a very good example of this at 38:30 in the following video. I suggest watching at least 37:20 to 39:16 for context, although this entire video is one of my all time favorites. She mentions Stossel again between 41:10 - 41:33 in conjunction with the disinfo strategy "modified hang out."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUlQ7vElqqo

[Occam's Banana]

John "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Trust Big Brother" Stossel: "I just absolutely HATE things like the 'PROMOTING MORAL HAZARD' & 'EPA STEPPING ON PEOPLE' & 'DRUG WAR' & 'ARROGANT PROSECUTORIAL ABUSE' & 'IRS FEEDING INFO TO LIBERAL GROUPS' & 'SPYING ON JAMES ROSEN AND HIS PARENTS'. But a super-secret, all-encompassing, warrantless-surveillance, government-database program? One which could very easily be used to just as secretly & warrantlessly "enhance," extend and exacerbate many of those other things I hate so much? NO PROBLEM!!!"

Mr. Stossel, meet the forest. The forest, this is Mr. Stossel. Perhaps, forest, you could explain to Mr. Stossel the meaning and nature of the concept of "MORAL HAZARD." (Poor fellow! Mr. Stossel has been staring at individual trees for so long, he appears to have gone somewhat cross-eyed. He can't seem to see you at all, forest ...)




Maybe I’m naive, but I don’t totally dismiss the government’s claim that data-mining is constitutional and may stop terrorism. This debate has two sides. There are at least 100 things government does that do make me furious:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1004580_10151425079126621_2095569789_n.png

[kahless]

Seriously, check this out:

Catherine Austin Fitts specifically pointed out Stossel as controlled opposition in an interview. She gives a very good example of this at 38:30 in the following video. I suggest watching at least 37:20 to 39:16 for context, although this entire video is one of my all time favorites. She mentions Stossel again between 41:10 - 41:33 in conjunction with the disinfo strategy "modified hang out."

I would not be surprised. Come to think of if it when his show first came out I was skeptical of him and really had a tough time believing his new found beliefs were real.

Over time you forget these things but I suppose if you are controlled opposition that is part of the plan.

[anaconda]

I would not be surprised.

The example she gives in the video (post #132 just above) is superb (and it's less than two minutes of viewing time).

[kahless]

The example she gives in the video (post #132 just above) is superb (and it's less than two minutes of viewing time).

I did watch those 2 minutes when you posted it were she uses him as an example of that. I would like to have heard her back it up a bit more but then again have not listened to the entire 56 minutes.

[HigherVision]

That sucks that Stossel's a sellout. But it's better that we know so we can not have anything to do with him any more.

[jtstellar]

luckily most readers at reason magazine site seem to disagree last time i checked there for responses to this article

[Rothbardian Girl]

This really comes as no surprise to me, as I have always thought Stossel is somewhat milquetoast. He does a terrible job of defending the libertarian foreign policy position in his interviews with O'Reilly, as someone else in this topic has mentioned, and even his own show doesn't really offer any compelling arguments in support of libertarian positions. His presentations usually just come off as wishy-washy to me. I suppose that may be part of the reason why Stossel gets to keep his show on FOX, while the judge is now relegated to supporting appearances. I don't know Stossel's exact viewership stats, but I really can't imagine many people watch his show. I don't even know if it's still on the air, to be honest. Maybe on FBN?

[jllundqu]

The next time Stossel carries on about some libertarian bruhaha... someone please repost this thread. He's another Beck ferchrissake

[qh4dotcom]

The next time Stossel carries on about some libertarian bruhaha... someone please repost this thread. He's another Beck ferchrissake

Come on....Stossel is much better than Beck.

He's human and entitled to one libertarian mistake.

[KEEF]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1004580_10151425079126621_2095569789_n.png




Just briefly looking at this, doesn't he just contradict his own argument by then saying he is against teaching the public dependency... doesn't the government do just that with the NSA? Give up a little liberty, don't worry, we will keep you safe. Second contradiction I see, spying on James Rosen and his parents... HELLO JOHN, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE NSA IS DOING TO ALL OF US?

[Bastiat's The Law]

So has he faced a backlash? I haven't read the entire thread.

[kahless]

This really comes as no surprise to me, as I have always thought Stossel is somewhat milquetoast. He does a terrible job of defending the libertarian foreign policy position in his interviews with O'Reilly, as someone else in this topic has mentioned, and even his own show doesn't really offer any compelling arguments in support of libertarian positions. His presentations usually just come off as wishy-washy to me. I suppose that may be part of the reason why Stossel gets to keep his show on FOX, while the judge is now relegated to supporting appearances. I don't know Stossel's exact viewership stats, but I really can't imagine many people watch his show. I don't even know if it's still on the air, to be honest. Maybe on FBN?

Exactly. As you describe his presentations are wishy-washy. I could not put a finger on it but that was the perfect description I was looking for.

I suppose if you are controlled opposition it would make allot of sense to present Libertarianism in this manner.

[kahless]

Come on....Stossel is much better than Beck.

He's human and entitled to one libertarian mistake.

Beck calls Snowden a hero and is in all out assault against the NSA policies. Stossel came out in favor of the NSA. This is not just a simple mistake for Stossel to make. This is huge.

[Root]

Come on....Stossel is much better than Beck.

He's human and entitled to one libertarian mistake.
Sure, we all make mistakes. The key is to learn from your mistakes and not double down on them.

[EBounding]

This really comes as no surprise to me, as I have always thought Stossel is somewhat milquetoast. He does a terrible job of defending the libertarian foreign policy position in his interviews with O'Reilly, as someone else in this topic has mentioned, and even his own show doesn't really offer any compelling arguments in support of libertarian positions. His presentations usually just come off as wishy-washy to me.

I think it was really evident when him and his "liberty audience" had that debate with Ann Coulter.

[Anti Federalist]

Beck calls Snowden a hero and is in all out assault against the NSA policies. Stossel came out in favor of the NSA. This is not just a simple mistake for Stossel to make. This is huge.

Exactly.

This is a deal breaker:


"Efficiency Libertarian" sez:


1. Terrorists do want to murder us. If the NSA is halfway competent, Big Data should help detect plots.

...

Hero sez:


"Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it."

Black and white.
Wheat from chaff.
Men from boys.

[krugminator]

The next time Stossel carries on about some libertarian bruhaha... someone please repost this thread. He's another Beck ferchrissake

Just because he says he isn't excited about this issue??? John Stossel is more of a pure libertarian than Ron or Rand Paul.

[krugminator]

This really comes as no surprise to me, as I have always thought Stossel is somewhat milquetoast. He does a terrible job of defending the libertarian foreign policy position in his interviews with O'Reilly, as someone else in this topic has mentioned, and even his own show doesn't really offer any compelling arguments in support of libertarian positions. His presentations usually just come off as wishy-washy to me. I suppose that may be part of the reason why Stossel gets to keep his show on FOX, while the judge is now relegated to supporting appearances. I don't know Stossel's exact viewership stats, but I really can't imagine many people watch his show. I don't even know if it's still on the air, to be honest. Maybe on FBN?

He hosted the highest rated news show on TV when he was ABC. His specials that he does for FOX get solid ratings now.

As far as people able to articulate libertarian ideals to wide audiences only Rand Paul is better than Stossel. I think Tom Woods , Schiff, and the Judge are also good but they are ways behind Stossel and miles behind Rand.

[anaconda]

My respect for Stossel has vanished.


Catherine Austin Fitts specifically pointed out Stossel as controlled opposition in an interview. She gives a very good example of this at 38:30 in the following video. I suggest watching at least 37:20 to 39:16 for context, although this entire video is one of my all time favorites. She mentions Stossel again between 41:10 - 41:33 in conjunction with the disinfo strategy "modified hang out."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUlQ7vElqqo

[NERVE]

OMG Stossel. I knew it.. A complete phoney... HAHAHAHA!

you took the words out of my mouth. someone post the vid of him getting slapped by that wrestler.

[HigherVision]

n/m

[Anti Federalist]

Bump for another thread.

[UWDude]

Catherine Austin Fitts specifically pointed out Stossel as controlled opposition in an interview. She gives a very good example of this at 38:30 in the following video. I suggest watching at least 37:20 to 39:16 for context, although this entire video is one of my all time favorites. She mentions Stossel again between 41:10 - 41:33 in conjunction with the disinfo strategy "modified hang out."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUlQ7vElqqo

Ahh yes. This is just like in London with the corruption scandals with the BBC going in and offering money to get the MP's to raise an issue on the floor of the commons, which was like $15,000, when these guys are taking in millions, if not billions in bribes and campaign funds.

[AmericasLastHope]

I honestly skipped this thread because I thought the title was Stossel just being sarcastic. I'm shocked to see that he was actually serious. I can't believe he's defending the NSA and the CIA.

[helmuth_hubener]

Sure, we all make mistakes. The key is to learn from your mistakes and not double down on them.
Yes, he has doubled down. I will now admit I was wrong.


The worst thing was definitely the point about Big Data maybe could stop a terrorist. Lame. But I'll bet he'd backtrack on that if someone called him on it. I don't think he really believes that, with all its implications.

He did not backtrack. He doubled down. Stossel: seriously? Are you that gullible, naive, and idiotic? Are you really that wrapped up in the Religious Worship of the State (minarchist sect)? National defense is an illusion. You are a rube if you believe that baloney. Sorry, but you are. I've loved many of your specials, going back to the 1990s (Greed is Good, Is America #1?, etc.). But get a clue. The government is not here to help you. There are not two sides to this issue. There is only one side. The surveillance State is evil. That's it. That's the side.

You have lost a lot of respect from me because of this.

[Anti Federalist]

Bump for being outraged at "censoring" video games but "meh" if those games monitor your entire home and send it straight to government.

[DamianTV]

So by Stossels logic: If you have nothing to hide, then you need no rights at all! (paraphrasing Ben Swann on that)

Someone PLEASE tear that statement apart!

(Hint: Right and Wrong are SUBJECTIVE TERMS)

[HOLLYWOOD]

https://twitter.com/FBNStossel Latest 12 tweets




https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1017262176/jstoss_normal.jpg John Stossel ‏@FBNStossel (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel) 10h (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/348139795198914560)
"Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others." - William Allen White
Expand (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/348139795198914560)
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1017262176/jstoss_normal.jpg John Stossel ‏@FBNStossel (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel) 20 Jun (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347925038760079360)
What a great game. #Game7 (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Game7&src=hash)
Expand (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347925038760079360)
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1017262176/jstoss_normal.jpg John Stossel ‏@FBNStossel (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel) 20 Jun (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347881992349696000)
America is supposed to be a "free" country. But, just how free are we really? STOSSEL #PuritanicalGovt (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23PuritanicalGovt&src=hash) starts NOW on @FoxBusiness (https://twitter.com/FoxBusiness)...
Expand (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347881992349696000)
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1017262176/jstoss_normal.jpg John Stossel ‏@FBNStossel (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel) 20 Jun (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347845255816683520)
Isn’t the Department of Homeland Security supposed to protect us from terrorists? Not poker? http://ow.ly/i/2ppyP (http://t.co/ZeNOBX6RDV)
View photo (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347845255816683520)
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1017262176/jstoss_normal.jpg John Stossel ‏@FBNStossel (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel) 20 Jun (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347818917491785729)
I like to gamble, but in the name of "protecting" me, big gov't bans gambling. #GiveMeABreak (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23GiveMeABreak&src=hash) #PuritanicalGovt (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23PuritanicalGovt&src=hash)
Expand (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347818917491785729)
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1017262176/jstoss_normal.jpg John Stossel ‏@FBNStossel (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel) 20 Jun (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347794930581766144)
Tonight @kennedynation (https://twitter.com/KennedyNation) gets drunk… & drives. How is gov’t supposed to determine the “legal” limit?
Expand (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347794930581766144)
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1017262176/jstoss_normal.jpg John Stossel ‏@FBNStossel (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel) 20 Jun (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347772304291405825)
Legal sex work is better/safer... @DennisHof (https://twitter.com/DennisHof) is back w/ the girls of the @BunnyRanch (https://twitter.com/bunnyranch) on #STOSSEL (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23STOSSEL&src=hash) http://ow.ly/me9dd (http://t.co/A5SF3UGyeB)
Expand (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347772304291405825)
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1017262176/jstoss_normal.jpg John Stossel ‏@FBNStossel (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel) 20 Jun (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347752340134166529)
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools." - Herbert Spencer.
Expand (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347752340134166529)
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1017262176/jstoss_normal.jpg John Stossel ‏@FBNStossel (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel) 19 Jun (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347402557188091904)
"More laws, less justice." - Marcus Tullius Cicero (42 BC)
Expand (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347402557188091904)
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1017262176/jstoss_normal.jpg John Stossel ‏@FBNStossel (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel) 18 Jun (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347147158862041088)
Sorry I am not yet furious about NSA surveillance. I AM furious about much of what gov't does: pic.twitter.com/Gfdt8WVKw6 (http://t.co/Gfdt8WVKw6)
View photo (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347147158862041088)

John Stossel ‏@FBNStossel (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel) 18 Jun (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347029178908020737)
"Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you." - Pericles (430 BC)
Expand (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/347029178908020737)

John Stossel ‏@FBNStossel (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel) 17 Jun (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/346696560412880896)
"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled & those who have no such desire." - Robert A. Heinlein
Expand (https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/346696560412880896)

[DamianTV]

https://twitter.com/FBNStossel Latest 12 tweets

I usually like Stossel, but this particular statement I did not agree with. Thus I think it needs to be understood that I am not trying to fully discredit him as a journalist or libertarian, but merely point out that this particular statement is not indicative of his self association with libertarianism.

[Anti Federalist]

/////

[Root]

Catherine Austin Fitts specifically pointed out Stossel as controlled opposition in an interview. She gives a very good example of this at 38:30 in the following video. I suggest watching at least 37:20 to 39:16 for context, although this entire video is one of my all time favorites. She mentions Stossel again between 41:10 - 41:33 in conjunction with the disinfo strategy "modified hang out."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUlQ7vElqqo

I watched it. Yeah, there's no doubt in my mind that he's now controlled opposition.


John Stossel (https://www.facebook.com/JohnStossel?ref=stream&hc_location=stream)
One week before Supreme Court’s ruling in favor of gay marriage, the largest “gay cure” group gave up (http://www.ecumenicalnews.com/article/pray-the-gay-away-ministry-closes-leader-apologizes-to-lgbt-community-22299), and its leader apologized to gays:

"You have never been my enemy. I am very sorry that I have been yours."

I confronted leaders of the Exodus group years ago, saying to one who claimed he’d “cured” a man: "He's still gay...no one has been ‘cured’!"

Exodus Counselor: "Of course. But look at the bind. You have a man who says 'I am cured, I no longer have homosexual feelings. I'm married, I love my wife, I love my kids, I'm doing fine.' Five years later he has a fall; a homosexual contact. So what? It's a trade-off, and these men are willing to pay that price."

It’s great that today fewer men feel any need to pretend, or “pay a price.”

[Root]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5w2ieGbqmO8

*yawn*

[Noob]

How about when the Obama Administration is Warrantless Collecting your Personal Financial Data

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/jw-obtains-records-detailing-obama-administrations-warrantless-collection-of-citizens-personal-financial-data/

[helmuth_hubener]

Just watched that last Big Brother and Privacy segment. Was that the Judge at the beginning who told John "I don't think this is John Stossel -- I think it's an imposter"?

Over and over it came up that "well, they're not listening to the actual conversations. Does anyone actually believe that? Anyone? Obviously the actual phone conversations are being recorded as well. And surely listened to too, but much more usefully, probably run through voice recognition too so that there's transcripts and massive word searches and stuff like that can be easily done. Then no one has to actually listen at all. I can't imagine anyone being so credulous and naive as to think they have this whole huge secret surveillance program, but are sticking strictly, oh-so-strictly, to only collecting metadata. Oh, nothing else. That would be wrong!

And: really? Why would it be wrong? Wouldn't every lame excuse they're making about universal call logging apply equally or more to universal call recording and storage?

[Anti Federalist]

Bump because he keeps trying to backpedal out of this.

[Anti Federalist]

Bump for another thread

[Anti Federalist]

Once more because I feel like it.

[dannno]

Once more because I feel like it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL0PTcuktuQ

[Dianne]

I'm under a terrorist attack as we speak. Feds extorting $200. from me for not buying an insurance policy I do not qualify for .. aka Obamacare. I see debtor's prisons within five years for those who can't afford to pay Obamacare premiums, yet don't qualify for subsidies either. The terrorists are in Washington, D.C.

[Ronin Truth]

C'mon John, you know better than that. So NOW we're supposed to start believing the government?

How many terrorists has the NSA stopped for us? Or is that a TOP SECRET too?

VOTE -- early and often! :p :rolleyes:

[Anti Federalist]

C'mon John, you know better than that. So NOW we're supposed to start believing the government?

How many terrorists has the NSA stopped for us? Or is that a TOP SECRET too?

VOTE -- early and often! :p :rolleyes:

And vote harder!

[phill4paul]

And vote harder!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=69&stc=1&d=1275425672

[DFF]

2. My electronic privacy has already been utterly shredded by Google, Amazon, YouTube and so on.

LOL!!! (what else can you say?)

[Danke]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=69&stc=1&d=1275425672

Lol, memories. Didn't Kludge write that in a warehouse with his excrements?

[Anti Federalist]

LOL +rep

Love how Kludge put his "K" in the Yin-Yang.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=69&stc=1&d=1275425672

[Anti Federalist]

Lol, memories. Didn't Kludge write that in a warehouse with his excrements?

Warehouse?

http://i2.wp.com/apocalypticthoughts.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/free-hugs.jpg

[heavenlyboy34]

And vote harder!


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.
:( Enough for RT but not for thee, sorry.

[Anti Federalist]

///

[Anti Federalist]

Lol, memories. Didn't Kludge write that in a warehouse with his excrements?

On second thought...if that is true, he might want to see a doctor.