Snowden vs Manning, heroes or traitors?

[Neil Desmond]

When it comes to motive, intent, or agenda, what's the difference between what Bradley Manning did and what Edward Snowden did?

[kcchiefs6465]

They are both heroes in my eyes.

[pcosmar]

When it comes to motive, intent, or agenda, what's the difference between what Bradley Manning did and what Edward Snowden did?

Both Heroes.

Both will suffer for it it seems,, and Americans will yawn and change the channel. :(

[Anti Federalist]

They are both heroes in my eyes.

Same here.

[bolil]

One seems a hero, the other IS a martyr.

Well, my take on Snowden is this: The crackdown was not so well received as was imagined, so give the people an icon, give them a person that stood and won so they forget about that one guy that stood and was caged.

Admit to A B and C, and in doing so they will never doubt your innocence as regards D.

[phill4paul]

Neither has anything to gain and both have everything to lose. I don't see a reason to label.

[mport1]

Both are heroes. I just wished Snowden would have leaked everything he had in its entirety to completely dismantle the system. Hopefully we'll get some whistleblowers who will do just that at some point.

[bolil]

The thing that eludes me is how, here of all places, people are not more cynical. "Thar be an iceberg," it was said "It's entirety to be seen."

[pcosmar]

Both are heroes. I just wished Snowden would have leaked everything he had in its entirety to completely dismantle the system. Hopefully we'll get some whistleblowers who will do just that at some point.

Sadly, I don't expect it to be dismantled at all.

Except for a few that get pissed,, most will ignore it. Politicos will justify it, and only a few will rant against it.

It will continue.

[kcchiefs6465]

The thing that eludes me is how, here of all places, people are not more cynical. "Thar be an iceberg," it was said "It's entirety to be seen."
Because I'm always cynical. It is my nature. When someone commits a courageous act to inform the people who by and large give not one fuck that their rights are eroding if not already gone, it makes me proud.

I'll be back to my hopeless self when this man is renditioned, put through a secret trial, and ultimately thrown in a cellar in Leavenworth.

[bolil]

Because I'm always cynical. It is my nature. When someone commits a courageous act to inform the people who by and large give not one fuck that their rights are eroding if not already gone, it makes me proud.

I'll be back to my hopeless self when this man is renditioned, put through a secret trial, and ultimately thrown in a cellar in Leavenworth.

And if he is not treated the way a certain other person, whose identity should be clear, was treated... what then?

I can only go with my gut, and in this instance my gut tells me: "Bullshit"... of course, I am often wrong.

[brushfire]

Both heroes

[Neil Desmond]

Perhaps we can also add Daniel Ellsberg to the mix: http://iam.bradleymanning.org/post/5535584206


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zu-hfLo4ps8/UXwladfTQ8I/AAAAAAAAJBc/UMsHijSYq2A/s1600/ellsberg+is+bradley+manning.jpg

[bolil]

To blow trumpets esteeming the courage of this man is tragic, when his predecessor still rots away in a military prison.

Manning first, then we can talk Snowden.

[phill4paul]

Perhaps we can also add Daniel Ellsberg to the mix: http://iam.bradleymanning.org/post/5535584206


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zu-hfLo4ps8/UXwladfTQ8I/AAAAAAAAJBc/UMsHijSYq2A/s1600/ellsberg+is+bradley+manning.jpg

Ellsberg is a free man walking. Bradley..not so. Snowden..on the run.

[kcchiefs6465]

And if he is not treated the way a certain other person, whose identity should be clear, was treated... what then?
He will be treated similarly I have no doubts. I am not sure the exact confidentiality agreements or oaths sworn by the two (or rather the differences) but I am sure aiding the enemy will be the charge they aim for.

The MSM is treating him differently to try and portray an aura of legitimacy. If they came right out and read their prepared statements, they'd lose credibility. At least with the younger crowd as they have alternative sources for media and care about if nothing else, their smart phones and perceived privacy. I've seen quite a few people call for Snowden's disappearance, execution, and countless numbers of MSM talking head shills call for his imprisonment. Republicans agreeing with Obama and Democrats agreeing with Bush's policies.

Trust and believe, this man is being chased down wherever he may be. They will find him, or he will be holed up in an embassy closet for the foreseeable future. That is not to say if the Chinese haven't already captured him, interrogated him on the surveillance methods, to use him as a political bargaining chip.

Both Manning and Snowden deserve respect. They are very courageous men. One can only hope to do the things the did if they were put in the position to. Most, if they looked honestly at themselves, would not have the fortitude to commit to a life on the run or probable prison sentence. And to be a cynic, 99% of America won't give two shits about this once Game 3 comes on. Watch the media narrative and how it changes.

[kcchiefs6465]

To blow trumpets esteeming the courage of this man is tragic, when his predecessor still rots away in a military prison.

Manning first, then we can talk Snowden.
It is not either or.

I advocate the release of Manning just as I will advocate for the release of Snowden. Just as John Kirakou shouldn't be sitting a cell, or the countless other political prisoners and unjustly convicted. Manning's case is tragic. That is not to stop me from applauding a man who more or less followed the footsteps of, even with seeing how Manning is being treated and the seriousness of the charges he faces.

It's a goddamn shame.

[bolil]

It is not either or.

I advocate the release of Manning just as I will advocate for the release of Snowden. Just as John Kirakou shouldn't be sitting a cell, or the countless other political prisoners and unjustly convicted. Manning's case is tragic. That is not to stop me from applauding a man who more or less followed the footsteps of, even with seeing how Manning is being treated and the seriousness of the charges he faces.

It's a goddamn shame.

You are correct, I am wrong to assume that since he is not caged right now he is other than authentic/sincere. I am an arrogant person prone to follow the fucked up fancies of my own shallow mind.

Still, I've not the learning necessary to weigh things in any sophisticated fashion and my gut is telling me something is wrong here.

[kcchiefs6465]

I can only go with my gut, and in this instance my gut tells me: "Bullshit"... of course, I am often wrong.
You will never truly know. I am assuming the best.

Green posted a very interesting piece on a Polish (IIRC, might have been Hungary) officer executing a protester point blank. Decades later it was revealed that this man worked as a double agent. Everyone's views were turned on their head with the apparent case that they wanted the uprising. There is much more to the story and my mind is drawing a blank on the exact circumstances. It relates to this though and I do understand that there are things that seem to be but are not. I do not put it past them though in the case I want to believe.

Green, if you remember what I am referring to, could you please provide a link? Or maybe someone else knows?

[bolil]

Okay, I was unaware of the media campaign against this man. He has done more than I ever will, and for that he deserves my respect, consider my snowbashing over.

[phill4paul]

You are correct, I am wrong to assume that since he is not caged right now he is other than authentic/sincere. I am an arrogant person prone to follow the fucked up fancies of my own shallow mind.

Still, I've not the learning necessary to weigh things in any sophisticated fashion and my gut is telling me something is wrong here.

OK, I think I get your idea. Because he is not imprisoned he is COINTELPRO? Well, today I heard Rush, Hannity and Beck ALL back him. That tells me something is wrong indeed. I'm not sure that it is Snowden..something is hinky dink in the media regarding him though.

[bolil]

OK, I think I get your idea. Because he is not imprisoned he is COINTELPRO? Well, today I heard Rush, Hannity and Beck ALL back him. That tells me something is wrong indeed. I'm not sure that it is Snowden..something is hinky dink in the media regarding him though.
Yeah, that is where I was coming from before I smelled my own baseless opinion.

There is something different here, thought, that seems to be agreed upon.

Also, the surfeit of Snowden threads smells like a fucking mine. Another baseless, emotivist, observation.

[Anti Federalist]

It is not either or.

I advocate the release of Manning just as I will advocate for the release of Snowden. Just as John Kirakou shouldn't be sitting a cell, or the countless other political prisoners and unjustly convicted. Manning's case is tragic. That is not to stop me from applauding a man who more or less followed the footsteps of, even with seeing how Manning is being treated and the seriousness of the charges he faces.

It's a goddamn shame.

Ed and Elaine Brown, Irwin Schiff and Leonard Peltier come to mind right off the top of my head.

[randfan7]

When it comes to motive, intent, or agenda, what's the difference between what Bradley Manning did and what Edward Snowden did?

I don’t want to criticize either of these two whistleblowers but the way in which they both accessed and disclosed the information is important to compare and contrast. I think how they proceeded is critical in understanding why one would get more support than the other. I think Snowden took the better path.

1. Manning – soldier. Snowden – private contractor/citizen. I think the difference in status and how they accessed the information is important.

2. Manning tried to remain anonymous; but was caught because he took to the internet to brag about the leaks to a hacker? Did not give the impression of somebody that was willing to get caught.
Vs.
Snowden outed himself; there was no bragging in what I saw in his interview. He fully expected to get caught and accepted that from the onset.

3. Manning – document dumped to a foreign outlet simply known for leaking information. He didn’t filter the information or seem to care about making sure particularly sensitive information was not disclosed, correct me if I misunderstand this.
Vs.
Snowden – admittedly filtered the information, chose to make sure that particularly sensitive information was not disclosed and further asked the reporter he leaked the information to, to do the same. Snowden also leaked the information to a “credible” news outlet and a well-known ideologue of a reporter (and a liberal too). Not somebody just known for leaking information.

[donnay]

They are SUPER heroes to me!

[cajuncocoa]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1001786_565951336789839_1855803645_n.jpg

[Neil Desmond]

Another whistleblower:


http://www.palestineposterproject.org/sites/aod/files/imagecache/poster_images_full/posters/2932_PPPA.jpg

[DamianTV]

They are both heroes in my eyes.

I have to add to that.

What makes them Heroes over cops is they both knew damn well their Govt would come after them. They threw themselves on the grenade for our futures. Lets not waste what they've given us.