canadian defence minister / ufo visit confirmed according to him for 1000s of years

[satchelmcqueen]

so seeing as we only know what we are allowed to know, im wondering what you guys think of this video. many in the past who have worked for the government have said the same things, but this was just a few months ago. he seems legit. based on many things ive researched for years now, i gotta say that i believe the guy. i dont think we can be the only living things in this universe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEQdvYFMBAU

[John F Kennedy III]

It is an absolute fact extraterrestrial aliens have been visiting Earth for thousands of years and still are. And they've had a massive influence on humans, including, IMO, creating us.

[PSYOP]

It is an absolute fact extraterrestrial aliens have been visiting Earth for thousands of years and still are. And they've had a massive influence on humans, including, IMO, creating us.

What facts?

[John F Kennedy III]

What facts?

What are you talking about?

[PSYOP]

What are you talking about?

No solid proof of extraterrestrials ever visiting this planet.

[TheTexan]

And they've had a massive influence on humans, including, IMO, creating us.

I bet they regret that decision

[kcchiefs6465]

No solid proof of extraterrestrials ever visiting this planet.
Yes there is.

Check out Rendlesham Forest incident or Travis Walton's abduction.

There is plenty of evidence.

[kcchiefs6465]

I bet they regret that decision
I suspect so sometimes. Depends on what our purpose was.

A common link to all of these incredible credible abductions is the taking of sperm or eggs. (apparently)

I question why they would be doing that.

I do theorize that the Great Flood was because of flaws in our creation. Perhaps "They" are planning for another species more superior than us or are tired with our wickedry? You really can't say for certain.

I have no doubts that we are routinely visited. (I can only speculate as to why) Whether it is to benevolent or malevolent we will find out someday. I don't get too worried about it. I find it interesting trying to come to a higher understanding of why we are here or how we got here.

[Working Poor]

I am somewhat interested in ufo stuff. I think it is possible we get visits. I know that a lot of people feel that they have been experimented on by aliens I don't know if they have or not.

People have vivid imaginations. But still, who am I to say what is real to someone else?
I do not think I have ever been contacted by aliens but,I am not absolutely sure of it.

[PaulConventionWV]

Oh, right, because the Canadian minister of defense said it, it must be true!

The Canadian defense minister says aliens have been visiting earth for thousands of years... seems legit. But oh, wait, that was already your response so my attempt at sarcasm is foiled. Blasted!

[PaulConventionWV]

It is an absolute fact extraterrestrial aliens have been visiting Earth for thousands of years and still are. And they've had a massive influence on humans, including, IMO, creating us.

LOL

[Brian4Liberty]

He believes in global warming too.

[oyarde]

He believes in global warming too.

There is a helluva lot to look at here . Why does Canada need a Defense Ministry ? What is he in charge of ? 30 broken helicopters or something ? Global warming,pffft. Then the other thing , is there life elsewhere ? The common sense approach would be there is a probability ?

[kcchiefs6465]

There is a helluva lot to look at here . Why does Canada need a Defense Ministry ? What is he in charge of ? 30 broken helicopters or something ? Global warming,pffft. Then the other thing , is there life elsewhere ? The common sense approach would be there is a probability ?
Over 200 billion stars in the Milky Way Galaxy. There being a probability of life elsewhere in the universe is probably an understatement.

What interest they would have with us I do not know.

There are hundreds of well documented cases. The Rendlesham incident is a very interesting case as well as Travis Walton's abduction.

There are also pilots with millions of miles logged who have reported to Air Traffic Control that they were being followed by UFOs. Japan Airlines Flight 1628 notably. Even after doing zig-zag evasive maneuvers the crafts were still following, often times accelerating to impossible speeds, going straight up, or circling the plane. The air traffic control recordings are pretty interesting.

Well known astronaut Gordon Cooper has some pretty interesting tales as well.

[idiom]

And we know for an absolute FACT that there are no secret government agencies putting out disinformation.

[PaulConventionWV]

There is a helluva lot to look at here . Why does Canada need a Defense Ministry ? What is he in charge of ? 30 broken helicopters or something ? Global warming,pffft. Then the other thing , is there life elsewhere ? The common sense approach would be there is a probability ?

Probability has nothing to do with it. Before we can determine probability, we have to determine whether it is actually possible for life to develop on its own at all. You can role one die an infinite number of times, but you will never get a 7.

[ronpaulfollower999]

How would aliens know how to communicate with us?

I find it hard to believe that aliens that traveled thousands of light years would remain in secret.

[wetroof]

its a fact they have been visiting us for thousands of years. the last stage of their interference almost complete - the hybrid breeding program. they want to transfer their souls into these hybrids and come down to earth and rule us here.

[tod evans]

I haven't seen any aliens.............Even back when I consumed large quantities of psychedelics...

[CPUd]

Here he is a few yrs ago selling books:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO0H90SprYk

[ClydeCoulter]

Isn't that Mike Gravel at 1:29?

[kcchiefs6465]

And we know for an absolute FACT that there are no secret government agencies putting out disinformation.
I am not basing any information off of this man's claims. There are credible claims and physical evidence that UFOs have visited us.

We're talking pilots with millions of miles. Or radioactive soil samples. Or unworldly (not of this planet) implantations that have been removed and analyzed with an electron microscope. I mean there's evidence. I'm not talking about crop circles and Area 51. I'm talking about truly unexplainable visitations.

[Occam's Banana]

I haven't seen any aliens.............Even back when I consumed large quantities of psychedelics...

Ah, yes - but that doesn't mean that they haven't seen you! :eek:

[ClydeCoulter]

Ah, yes - but that doesn't mean that they haven't seen you! :eek:

do, do^, do, do....do, do^, do, do :)

[kcchiefs6465]

How would aliens know how to communicate with us?

I find it hard to believe that aliens that traveled thousands of light years would remain in secret.
It is said to be a feeling of understanding or communication on another level. Talking through the mind. I have no clue how they'd communicate. People may just feel that sort of calm or tranquility from a number of things.

And as to the second point you made, they relatively aren't. They shut down a military base holding a good deal of our nuclear weapons with beams of 'light.' We are talking a monumental system failure. Not one or two going out as might be plausible, but all. The ground where it landed is still radioactive. Castings took from the landing probes. Over 60 witnesses, two different days. Audio recordings and sketches of 'hieroglyphs' that were reportedly on the craft. I mean, there's evidence.

Fair warning this is as far as I can remember. I'd bet my memory is correct but haven't looked into or read about it in a long time.

[CPUd]

UFOs are real; it is not hard to find official reports from pilots and other trained observers about encounters with UFOs. It is important to make the distinction that a UFO encounter does not necessarily imply an ET encounter.

[ghengis86]

If they've mastered interstellar travel, they're far superior to humans. So either way - malevolent or benevolent - there's not much we could do so no worries on my part. And besides, haven't y'all seen Independence Day? As long as we have Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith, I rest easy

[John F Kennedy III]

No solid proof of extraterrestrials ever visiting this planet.

Right...

[John F Kennedy III]

LOL

Care to elaborate?

[kcchiefs6465]

UFOs are real; it is not hard to find official reports from pilots and other trained observers about encounters with UFOs. It is important to make the distinction that a UFO encounter does not necessarily imply an ET encounter.
Very true. A lot of the UFOs have been seen to apparently operate with intelligent design. Coming to right angle turns, accelerating and decelerating to change course, interacting with people on the ground or our weapons systems, trailing planes.

Most are genuinely misidentified. There are a few that can't simply be explained away. When you look into the witnesses, the sitings on RADAR, physical evidence, etc. it really isn't a question of if they (or They) are coming here, but why?

[kcchiefs6465]

If they've mastered interstellar travel, they're far superior to humans. So either way - malevolent or benevolent - there's not much we could do so no worries on my part. And besides, haven't y'all seen Independence Day? As long as we have Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith, I rest easy
Pretty much my thoughts on it.

I want to see who was right though. (a general intrigue into why we were put here) It's the biggest question out there.

[John F Kennedy III]

UFOs are real; it is not hard to find official reports from pilots and other trained observers about encounters with UFOs. It is important to make the distinction that a UFO encounter does not necessarily imply an ET encounter.

That's true. The government has all kinds of crazy stuff we don't know about.

[PaulConventionWV]

its a fact they have been visiting us for thousands of years. the last stage of their interference almost complete - the hybrid breeding program. they want to transfer their souls into these hybrids and come down to earth and rule us here.

I hope you're trolling.

[PaulConventionWV]

Right...

Care to elaborate?

[kcchiefs6465]

...
What do you think about the Rendlesham Airforce base incident?

[oyarde]

I hope you're trolling.

Maybe he is not , because this may explain things I could never quite get to the bottom of, like , how did Joe Biden , Nancy Pelosi , etc get to be part of the human race....

[PaulConventionWV]

Care to elaborate?

It's just funny that you think we were created by likewise mortal beings working with the same periodic table as we do. Us humans can't even create any life, much less intelligent life.

Also, why is it that we always assume the aliens are more advanced than us? We can't prove that 1) travel of the sort that would allow any being to reach earth from that far away is even possible and 2) that life developing on its own is even possible. The type that believe in aliens are almost without exception the type that are also atheists who believe in the infallibility of the theory of evolution and believe that they are wise for taking this position when it's really all just speculation because there's no evidence of any of it, so they fall back on probability in order to explain their belief. And when they get called out for assuming possibility, they attack you for denying evolution because if evolution is true, then surely it has happened elsewhere. It's such circular logic because aliens help explain why abiogenesis supposedly occurred, and abiogenesis helps explain why aliens exist. We have no evidence of it here, so they say it must have happened elsewhere. God forbid someone reach a different, non-secular conclusion.

[Occam's Banana]

[...] how did Joe Biden , Nancy Pelosi , etc get to be part of the human race....

:eek: Whoa!! When the hell did THAT happen?!?! :eek:

[emazur]

Oh, right, because the Canadian minister of defense said it, it must be true!


A common tactic among conspiracy theorists - clinging to the words of anyone who goes against the establishment, regardless of whether or not the person making the claim is part of the establishment. Like when former undersecretary of state and CFR member Steve Pieczenik stated that Bin Laden died of Marfan Syndrome in 2001, it was as if the words came straight from god's mouth to their ears.

I'm not saying everyone should simply dismiss the these 2 particular guys and their claims, but think rationally about them and give them the appropriate amount of weight against known and plausible information

[oyarde]

What do you think about the Rendlesham Airforce base incident?

Well , I believe Lt Col Halt to be credible and see zero reason to doubt what he reported. That does not mean I know what the hell was in it .

[oyarde]

:eek: Whoa!! When the hell did THAT happen?!?! :eek:

You see my concern Banana?

[PaulConventionWV]

What do you think about the Rendlesham Airforce base incident?

From what I can find on Wikipedia, it's a few people who claim to have seen "strange lights" and then described impressions on the ground which were later verified. ZOMG how did they know? Hmm... it's a mystery... the mind stews. Oh, yeah, and there was a little radiation. So what? How does any of this even remotely suggest they were alien spacecraft?

If aliens are coming here, don't you think they would make their presence a little more obvious? What purpose could it possibly serve them to not be seen?

[muh_roads]

I am interested in alien technology more than aliens themselves for the unlimited energy possibilities and making space travel actually possible. Not fuckin' around with rocket fuel, nuclear, or even plasma.

http://www.disclosureproject.org/

Energy and transportation are the two largest lobby's that want to keep it suppressed.

[PaulConventionWV]

A common tactic among conspiracy theorists - clinging to the words of anyone who goes against the establishment, regardless of whether or not the person making the claim is part of the establishment. Like when former undersecretary of state and CFR member Steve Pieczenik stated that Bin Laden died of Marfan Syndrome in 2001, it was as if the words came straight from god's mouth to their ears.

I'm not saying everyone should simply dismiss the these 2 particular guys and their claims, but think rationally about them and give them the appropriate amount of weight against known and plausible information

Don't forget that this guy isn't necessarily "against the establishment". It could be a form of controlled opposition. Also, if aliens are visiting us, how did they find out who our leaders are in order to cooperate with them? What makes you think they would want to cooperate with them? If they weren't cooperating, then we would all know about them, right?

[kcchiefs6465]

Well , I believe Lt Col Halt to be credible and see zero reason to doubt what he reported. That doesnot mean I know what the hell was in it .
Thank you oyarde. I couldn't begin to explain it either. I do not think that even with all of the classified and black budget projects we've taken on that we would come anywhere close to that sophisticated. In 1980, that technology? By now we'd be seeing it manifest, or at least have had clues. (like the SR71 and the UFO sitings it caused)

If it wasn't the Russians what was it? Clearly operating through intelligent control but no technology of the sort has came out of Russia either.

Truly unexplained.

[PaulConventionWV]

The claim that the establishment/big business is trying to cover this up is preposterous. Aliens are almost all you see on the history channel anymore, along with other fairy tales we're supposed to believe, like the big bang, evolution, and alternative theories about the Bible. The theory that aliens initiated life on earth is actually quite a popular theory that is talked about on the mass media quite a bit and scientists who believe it are not scorned for their beliefs like creationist scientists are. UFOs can be found all over the mass media, so why do people think the establishment is trying to cover this up?

[kcchiefs6465]

From what I can find on Wikipedia, it's a few people who claim to have seen "strange lights" and then described impressions on the ground which were later verified. ZOMG how did they know? Hmm... it's a mystery... the mind stews. Oh, yeah, and there was a little radiation. So what? How does any of this even remotely suggest they were alien spacecraft?
The easy thing to do is to ridicule. It takes time and effort to research.

FWIW, 'few' denotes three. What is a few in your book? Or did you intentionally use that word to discredit or laugh off the report? Radiation much higher than the background of the surrounding area? Means nothing at all.

You get defensive because of your religion. It's rather amusing. Perhaps you'd find it to be pertinent that my theories (much as your theories) do not conflict. I find it hard to understand why Christians get so offended at the thought. (to be fair, many other religions probably would as well)



If aliens are coming here, don't you think they would make their presence a little more obvious? What purpose could it possibly serve them to not be seen?
Do you believe in miracles? If so, why hasn't God shown his Face?

[oyarde]

I am interested in alien technology more than aliens themselves for the unlimited energy possibilities and making space travel actually possible. Not fuckin' around with rocket fuel, nuclear, or even plasma.

http://www.disclosureproject.org/

Energy and transportation are the two largest lobby's that want to keep it suppressed. Yes , if these aliens are out there , I am pissed @ them , think about the thousands of taxed dollars I could have saved on taxed electricity , just in the past 50 yrs or so , fuckers .

[PaulConventionWV]

The easy thing to do is to ridicule. It takes time and effort to research.

FWIW, 'few' denotes three. What is a few in your book? Or did you intentionally use that word to discredit or laugh off the report?

I honestly don't see why it matters. Three, four, whatever.


Radiation much higher than the background of the surrounding area? Means nothing at all.

Means there is radiation higher than the background of the surrounding area. How does that get there? There are many explanations, and aliens isn't the first one I would think of.


You get defensive because of your religion. It's rather amusing. Perhaps you'd find it to be pertinent that my theories (much as your theories) do not conflict. I find it hard to understand why Christians get so offended at the thought. (to be fair, many other religions probably would as well)

I'm not getting defensive. I just think it's ridiculous that atheists go to such great lengths to avoid a certain possibility over all the other "secular" ones. It's laughable, really.


Do you believe in miracles? If so, why hasn't God shown his Face?

Now you're getting into theology. I honestly don't see what your point is. Does God have to show His face in order to be real?

[PaulConventionWV]

Yes , if these aliens are out there , I am pissed @ them , think about the thousands of taxed dollars I could have saved on taxed electricity , just in the past 50 yrs or so , fuckers .

And once again, we assume that aliens possess limitless technology, far beyond what we could ever imagine. Why do we assume this?

[bolil]

Call me crazy, but, not only do I hope these 'aliens' exist but that they have colonialist interests in earth. I will laugh as they land, and then find the nearest weapon to return fire.

People could use a good alien invasion, a little reality slap: "Just cause they have the technology does not give them the right."

[oyarde]

From what I can find on Wikipedia, it's a few people who claim to have seen "strange lights" and then described impressions on the ground which were later verified. ZOMG how did they know? Hmm... it's a mystery... the mind stews. Oh, yeah, and there was a little radiation. So what? How does any of this even remotely suggest they were alien spacecraft?

If aliens are coming here, don't you think they would make their presence a little more obvious? What purpose could it possibly serve them to not be seen?

I find unexplained radiation with unexplained impressions in a protected , seven square mile nature preserve to be suspicious, even without the eye witnesses .

[PaulConventionWV]

I find unexplained radiation with unexplained impressions in a protected , seven square mile nature preserve to be suspicious, even without the eye witnesses .

Right, but what are you suspicious of? There are myriad explanations that could be applied that particular scenario, not just aliens. It's unexplained, not unexplainedsothatmeansitsaliens.

[oyarde]

And once again, we assume that aliens possess limitless technology, far beyond what we could ever imagine. Why do we assume this?

I do assume that , only if they are able to get here , they have something better than I have . I have a bottle of wine and one lamp on in the house , presently , to seethe keyboard . My electric bill last month was $89 , that was using no heat , no air , and not traveling light yrs .

[oyarde]

Right, but what are you suspicious of? There are myriad explanations that could be applied that particular scenario, not just aliens. It's unexplained, not unexplainedsothatmeansitsaliens.

Well , with the eye winesses , I believe it was an aircraft of some kind .

[Occam's Banana]

Call me crazy, but, not only do I hope these 'aliens' exist but that they have colonialist interests in earth. I will laugh as they land, and then find the nearest weapon to return fire.

People could use a good alien invasion, a little reality slap: "Just cause they have the technology does not give them the right."

Paul Krugman PM'ed me. He asked me to +rep you for this.

[Natural Citizen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qGTjIcVDAU

[kcchiefs6465]

I honestly don't see why it matters. Three, four, whatever.

When talking the difference of three and sixty, it does.



Means there is radiation higher than the background of the surrounding area. How does that get there? There are many explanations, and aliens isn't the first one I would think of.
With the statement you said, it isn't the first explanation I'd think of either. Please do a little more research and you'll see the relevance. (especially when couple with the other physical evidence and witness testimony)



I'm not getting defensive. I just think it's ridiculous that atheists go to such great lengths to avoid a certain possibility over all the other "secular" ones. It's laughable, really.
I am not an atheist and really do not see where you are going. I suppose if I interpret it the way I think you mean me to, I could say the same about any religion. Evidence isn't a question for one who wants to believe. I don't want to believe anything. I am not looking for proof. Whether we evolved or were simply put here has no bearing on my life. I take what evidence is available and consider it with the rest of the evidence available. I form my theories and general beliefs based on this with accordance to my life experience. I very well may be wrong. (on the larger theories... [we are being visited]) I am not clinging to this as those who claim to be more religious than I cling to their beliefs. Not that you are one of the types but I've met quite a few.



Now you're getting into theology. I honestly don't see what your point is. Does God have to show His face in order to be real?
Do extraterrestrials have to show their face in order to be real?

Perhaps we are talking about one and the same?

[PaulConventionWV]

Think about this. People will deny that God exists, and in the same breath say that there exist civilizations we can't see beyond our reach, where aliens have technology far superior to ours, so far superior that they can inexplicably cover impossibly long distances, and they all evolved from nothing via abiogenesis just like we did. In fact, they help explain abiogenesis by providing the seeds for life here on earth so that we don't have to explain how they got it. What a perfectly obtuse and obscure theory. How convenient for the believer that they don't have to explain anything because it's all long-ago-and-far-away-and-it-happened-in-a-way-we-can't-possibly-understand. The amount of mental gymnastics it takes to believe in this and then criticize religion is astounding.

[bolil]

Paul Krugman PM'ed me. He asked me to +rep you for this.

If I met paul krugman in a private place, only one of us would leave walking. Funny tho, you would have been better off saving your rep, on some cunts account no less.

Furthermore, should they come, people like me will fight. Krugman and his ilk will... suck alien dick?

[emazur]

I can't believe I'm the first person to comment in this thread that this guy also discusses the new world order in this video and specifically mentions the CFR, Trilateral Commission, and Bilderberg.

[PaulConventionWV]

Well , with the eye winesses , I believe it was an aircraft of some kind .

Ok, so now you do need the eyewitness. Fine. The question now becomes what did they really see? Assuming they are being honest about the whole thing, a stretch in and of itself, they can't even fully explain what they saw. Even if it really was an aircraft, what kind of aircraft was it? I don't know how you do it, but aliens is about the last explanation I would use once all other possible explanations were eliminated. How many explanations have we eliminated so far?

[kcchiefs6465]

Ok, so now you do need the eyewitness. Fine. The question now becomes what did they really see? Assuming they are being honest about the whole thing, a stretch in and of itself, they can't even fully explain what they saw. Even if it really was an aircraft, what kind of aircraft was it? I don't know how you do it, but aliens is about the last explanation I would use once all other possible explanations were eliminated. How many explanations have we eliminated so far?
Everyone of them. How much research have you done?

[oyarde]

Ok, so now you do need the eyewitness. Fine. The question now becomes what did they really see? Assuming they are being honest about the whole thing, a stretch in and of itself, they can't even fully explain what they saw. Even if it really was an aircraft, what kind of aircraft was it? I don't know how you do it, but aliens is about the last explanation I would use once all other possible explanations were eliminated. How many explanations have we eliminated so far?

Nothing that I have ever seen would fit the descriptions given , I have been around about every typeof known aircraft at that time.

[PaulConventionWV]

When talking the difference of three and sixty, it does.

So what exactly did those people see? Strange lights? There are as many theories about what the lights are as there are people who saw them.


With the statement you said, it isn't the first explanation I'd think of either. Please do a little more research and you'll see the relevance. (especially when couple with the other physical evidence and witness testimony)

You asked me about this particular incident, of which I knew nothing beforehand. Why don't you present me with your theory instead of trying to make me explain it to you?


I am not an atheist and really do not see where you are going. I suppose if I interpret it the way I think you mean me to, I could say the same about any religion. Evidence isn't a question for one who wants to believe. I don't want to believe anything. I am not looking for proof. Whether we evolved or were simply put here has no bearing on my life.

Are you sure about that? I haven't met many people who would claim that the essential questions of existence (Who made me? Why am I here?) have "no bearing on my life".


I take what evidence is available and consider it with the rest of the evidence available. I form my theories and general beliefs based on this with accordance to my life experience. I very well may be wrong. (on the larger theories... [we are being visited]) I am not clinging to this as those who claim to be more religious than I cling to their beliefs. Not that you are one of the types but I've met quite a few.

Not quite sure what you're saying here, but forming theories and general beliefs "based on this with accordance to my life experience" to me, suggests that you would try to find worldly explanations for the lights and radiation before you claimed that it was evidence of an alien visitation. If you haven't eliminated the worldly explanations, then there is absolutely no reason to use it as evidence for aliens.


Do extraterrestrials have to show their face in order to be real?

Perhaps we are talking about one and the same?

When we talk about God, we are talking about a possible explanation for the existence of all life. In that sense, existence is evidence in and of itself that something happened to cause us to exist. Now, that doesn't mean it was necessarily God that did it, but there must be an explanation, and no explanation can rely solely on observed natural phenomena. If we are talking about mortal beings who come from another solar system far away, then yes, we do have to see that in order to believe it because it is supposedly part of the material world, and there is nothing in this world which would suggest that we should believe in that without seeing it. If the explanation for the existence of our universe necessarily involves explanations that rely on things we cannot observe in the natural world, then there is still a reason to believe it is possible without seeing it.

When I think of aliens, I am not thinking of omnipresent, omnipotent beings who do not rely on the laws of this universe in order to exist. Do you?

[PaulConventionWV]

Everyone of them. How much research have you done?

I am not the one who said this incident was evidence of anything, and yet I am being asked to explain it. Why can't people present their case without insisting I research something they know everything about just so I can question their conclusions?

[Philhelm]

If they've mastered interstellar travel, they're far superior to humans. So either way - malevolent or benevolent - there's not much we could do so no worries on my part. And besides, haven't y'all seen Independence Day? As long as we have Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith, I rest easy

The Tree of Liberty cares not whence the blood flows.

[John F Kennedy III]

It's just funny that you think we were created by likewise mortal beings working with the same periodic table as we do. Us humans can't even create any life, much less intelligent life.

Also, why is it that we always assume the aliens are more advanced than us? We can't prove that 1) travel of the sort that would allow any being to reach earth from that far away is even possible and 2) that life developing on its own is even possible. The type that believe in aliens are almost without exception the type that are also atheists who believe in the infallibility of the theory of evolution and believe that they are wise for taking this position when it's really all just speculation because there's no evidence of any of it, so they fall back on probability in order to explain their belief. And when they get called out for assuming possibility, they attack you for denying evolution because if evolution is true, then surely it has happened elsewhere. It's such circular logic because aliens help explain why abiogenesis supposedly occurred, and abiogenesis helps explain why aliens exist. We have no evidence of it here, so they say it must have happened elsewhere. God forbid someone reach a different, non-secular conclusion.


1. I believe in God

2. It's laughable a Christian would even bring up the word evidence in this type of debate

3. I do not believe in evolution

4. It's baseless assumption to assume aliens would be working with the exact same periodic table as us

5. If God created us, what stopped him from creating other beings on other planets?

[enoch150]

If aliens are coming here, don't you think they would make their presence a little more obvious? What purpose could it possibly serve them to not be seen?

Maybe they don't want to be pestered with 2,000,000,000 questions.


if aliens are visiting us, how did they find out who our leaders are in order to cooperate with them?

That really wouldn't be hard. We broadcast everything out into space. All they would have to do is listen and translate.


we assume that aliens possess limitless technology, far beyond what we could ever imagine. Why do we assume this?

It is only assumed that aliens which have the ability to travel to earth have technology beyond ours. Obviously, if they can travel to earth from somewhere else in the Milky Way, they have technology beyond ours. But that doesn't mean all aliens can travel to earth or are more advanced than we are.


...there exist civilizations we can't see beyond our reach... and they all evolved from nothing via abiogenesis just like we did. In fact, they help explain abiogenesis by providing the seeds for life here on earth so that we don't have to explain how they got it.

Only a subset of those who believe in the existence of aliens believe that aliens spread life to earth. The Drake Equation assumes life evolved independently, if it evolved at all on other worlds.


If we are talking about mortal beings who come from another solar system far away, then yes, we do have to see that in order to believe it because it is supposedly part of the material world, and there is nothing in this world which would suggest that we should believe in that without seeing it.

... But you don't believe people when they say they have seen a UFO. What you mean is that YOU have to see it. According to this survey, 10% of Americans think they have seen a UFO.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/ufos-exist-americans-national-geographic-survey/story?id=16661311


Us humans can't even create any life, much less intelligent life.

So? The fact that humans currently can't create something does not rule out its existence, or that we won't be able to do it in 50 or 500 years in the future.


The type that believe in aliens are almost without exception the type that are also atheists

According to that survey above, 36% of Americans believe in UFO's, while according to the survey below, only 5% of Americans are atheists.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-08-13/national/35491519_1_new-atheism-atheist-groups-new-atheists


there's no evidence of any of it, so they fall back on probability in order to explain their belief. And when they get called out for assuming possibility, they attack you for denying evolution because if evolution is true, then surely it has happened elsewhere.

No, the Drake Equation does not automatically assume that life is guaranteed to arise on other planets, and it also does not assume that intelligent life capable of communicating will evolve.

Since you are unfamiliar with it, you have to multiply the following:

*The number of stars in the Milky Way (estimated at 200-400 Billion)

*The fraction of stars with planets (estimated at 20% - 50%)

*Of the stars with planets, the number of planets per star capable of sustaining life (estimated at 1 -2)

*Of the planets capable of sustaining life, the percentage that actually will (either you believe that, where life can exist, it will (100%), or you believe that earth is special (0%), or maybe you believe that God created life on several planets (22.47%)

*Of the planets that have life, the percentage that develop intelligent life

*Of the planets with intelligent life, the percentage that have the ability and desire to communicate

*The fraction of the planet's lifespan in which intelligent life with the ability to communicate exists (for humans, if we blew ourselves up tomorrow, it would only be about 100 years out of an estimated total planetary lifespan of 10 Billion)

And you can plug those numbers in here: http://www.fennzart.com/planetarysystems/drake_equation.html

[satchelmcqueen]

very interesting you mention them creating us. ive saw much evidence saying the same things. like how did the summarians have our dna strand in a drawing that was found many years ago? and then according to their writings, we were created by the ones who visited this planet by means of dna manipulation. it just blows my mind that they had the dna drawing 10-20 thousand yrs ago.
It is an absolute fact extraterrestrial aliens have been visiting Earth for thousands of years and still are. And they've had a massive influence on humans, including, IMO, creating us.

[satchelmcqueen]

did you watch the video? im looking for others opinions so i can get a grip on this myself. im not saying its legit. im saying based on all the things ive studied for years, this seems like hes being real. it isnt out of the ordinary compared to other things ive studied. im still not sure myself.
Oh, right, because the Canadian minister of defense said it, it must be true!

The Canadian defense minister says aliens have been visiting earth for thousands of years... seems legit. But oh, wait, that was already your response so my attempt at sarcasm is foiled. Blasted!

[Warlord]

It's hard to imagine the span of 50,000 YEARS. I mean how can you rule out the possibility something happened then. They might not want to be known to us. Who the hell knows. The origin of life and how and why the f**k we exist is the hardest question to answer. I am not entirely convinced that evolution and its process got us here. Then again it's hard to imagine a billion years, or 5 billion years and what transpires over that period of time let alone 50,000

[satchelmcqueen]

for myself i used to say that we were the only ones because the bible didnt mention any others. but im not religious anymore due to many reasons so i have been able to look beyond the boundary of what the bible says. im mean, in the most simple terms, if jesus is real, isnt he an alien in definition? he came here transformed from a spirit into human form, then was killed, did other things spiritually while his body was dead, then came back into that body 3 days later, rose and floated up into the clouds and the last anyone saw of him was his feet disappearing into the heavens as he rose into the clouds.

why is this so easy to believe, but the mention of just simply a visit from others from another place in this universe laughed at?

its took many years for me to get to this point, but in the summarian writings, they mention that the first man was created by visitors to this planet by gene manipulation. this is why im amazed that they had drawings thats been found that had our dna strand in them. i dont understand how the dna drawing was possible unless they really did know about it and understand it. how did they even know what it looked like if unless they could view it? BUT the point its, also in their writings they mention of the first man and they call him "the atom" iirc, or "the adam".

just seems interesting to me. and then if you download "world wide telescope", which is free, then and only then can one really get a feel for how HUGE outerspace really is. its just insane how much distance is in some of those pics. one pic has around 100 galaxys in 1 shot because of the distance and angle of vision at that distance allows. its unreal how that just measuring from the left edge to the right edge of that one pic is so far it would take us billions of years to ever travel, yet we can see that space in one glance.

i just dont think we can be the only beings out here. and trust me, its took a lot to even get me to this point. i try not to fall for anything.
There is a helluva lot to look at here . Why does Canada need a Defense Ministry ? What is he in charge of ? 30 broken helicopters or something ? Global warming,pffft. Then the other thing , is there life elsewhere ? The common sense approach would be there is a probability ?

[satchelmcqueen]

yes the implants removed have never been totally explained as to where or how they were in the body.
I am not basing any information off of this man's claims. There are credible claims and physical evidence that UFOs have visited us.

We're talking pilots with millions of miles. Or radioactive soil samples. Or unworldly (not of this planet) implantations that have been removed and analyzed with an electron microscope. I mean there's evidence. I'm not talking about crop circles and Area 51. I'm talking about truly unexplainable visitations.

[satchelmcqueen]

yep ive read that to. some documentary i watched said that in another incident that our military fired 100s of missiles and bullets at a craft for 45 minutes iirc and none of our rounds ever even touched the craft. said it was hovering over a base or something to that effect. the guy telling the story was in the service at the time and witnessed all of it he claimed. said there was pictures as well as video of the entire thing, but its never seen the light of day.
It is said to be a feeling of understanding or communication on another level. Talking through the mind. I have no clue how they'd communicate. People may just feel that sort of calm or tranquility from a number of things.

And as to the second point you made, they relatively aren't. They shut down a military base holding a good deal of our nuclear weapons with beams of 'light.' We are talking a monumental system failure. Not one or two going out as might be plausible, but all. The ground where it landed is still radioactive. Castings took from the landing probes. Over 60 witnesses, two different days. Audio recordings and sketches of 'hieroglyphs' that were reportedly on the craft. I mean, there's evidence.

Fair warning this is as far as I can remember. I'd bet my memory is correct but haven't looked into or read about it in a long time.

[Constitutional Paulicy]

There are likely several people who have read this thread who fail to comment openly about what they have seen. No one wants to be ridiculed and criticized for what they know to be true. They've been down that road many times and chose not to go there again.

Seems there are a lot of people who insist on aggressively attempting to debunk any claims of this sort of phenomenon. Sometime they get down right malicious in their behavior.

I know this for a fact because I have without a doubt seen spacecraft that is far beyond the scope of what we have achieved. On both occasions, my brother was with me along with others. To this day my brother and myself hold true to what we saw. It's comforting to know we have each other to confide in.

[satchelmcqueen]

interesting you say this. see now im wondering, IF other beings exist....what and who is their god? earth has many differnet religions and beliefes, but for this thread ill go with christianity and what the bible claims. so with that, we have jesus and god. what do THEY have for the claims on their creation? who created them?

also just for anyone who is interested, i used to be one of the most devout christians you could ever meet. was raised in church from birth until i was about 33. so i fully understand how faith and the confines of the bible can limit any thought toward another possibility especially on the beginning of man. or at least it limited me. so i totally get both sides of the argument. i just know that i dont know everything and will not tell anyone that they are wrong on anything they believe. so open discussion is very welcomed here.
Think about this. People will deny that God exists, and in the same breath say that there exist civilizations we can't see beyond our reach, where aliens have technology far superior to ours, so far superior that they can inexplicably cover impossibly long distances, and they all evolved from nothing via abiogenesis just like we did. In fact, they help explain abiogenesis by providing the seeds for life here on earth so that we don't have to explain how they got it. What a perfectly obtuse and obscure theory. How convenient for the believer that they don't have to explain anything because it's all long-ago-and-far-away-and-it-happened-in-a-way-we-can't-possibly-understand. The amount of mental gymnastics it takes to believe in this and then criticize religion is astounding.

[satchelmcqueen]

yes, this also very much intrigued me. soooo, if this is legit then id have to assume they all know and participate in this. but at what level?
I can't believe I'm the first person to comment in this thread that this guy also discusses the new world order in this video and specifically mentions the CFR, Trilateral Commission, and Bilderberg.

[Danan]

Think about this. People will deny that God exists, and in the same breath say that there exist civilizations we can't see beyond our reach, where aliens have technology far superior to ours, so far superior that they can inexplicably cover impossibly long distances, and they all evolved from nothing via abiogenesis just like we did. In fact, they help explain abiogenesis by providing the seeds for life here on earth so that we don't have to explain how they got it. What a perfectly obtuse and obscure theory. How convenient for the believer that they don't have to explain anything because it's all long-ago-and-far-away-and-it-happened-in-a-way-we-can't-possibly-understand. The amount of mental gymnastics it takes to believe in this and then criticize religion is astounding.

The same goes for believing in the Bible. It takes some huge amount of mental gymnastics to criticize alien-believers while believing in the Bible.

That being said, I don't believe that intelligent aliens ever visited earth. Whether or not the first (proto-)lifeforms came to earth via some sort of meteor impact I don't know. Could be, doesn't have to be.

[John F Kennedy III]

It looks like Paul got lost and couldn't find his way back to this thread.

[shane77m]

Instead of coming all this way to perform anal probes on us they should just get peoples medical records. Seems like it would be a lot less messy.

[John F Kennedy III]

very interesting you mention them creating us. ive saw much evidence saying the same things. like how did the summarians have our dna strand in a drawing that was found many years ago? and then according to their writings, we were created by the ones who visited this planet by means of dna manipulation. it just blows my mind that they had the dna drawing 10-20 thousand yrs ago.

The only way to have the dna strand is by knowing what it looks like. Through research I've done it seems our creation was 200,000-300,000 years ago. Though it's possible that was an earlier version and the current version was created 75,000-80,000 years ago. Many, many ancient cultures told of beings descending from the sky and teaching them. At least a few have surviving stories that these sky beings created us.

[AFPVet]

1. I believe in God

2. It's laughable a Christian would even bring up the word evidence in this type of debate

3. I do not believe in evolution

4. It's baseless assumption to assume aliens would be working with the exact same periodic table as us

5. If God created us, what stopped him from creating other beings on other planets?

Darwinism is not true evolution lol. Everything evolves... that's not controversial; however, Darwinism is. There is a lot of speculation as to what this beings are. They may very well be an evolutionary humanoid. They may also actually be terrestrial rather than extraterrestrial.

[John F Kennedy III]

There are likely several people who have read this thread who fail to comment openly about what they have seen. No one wants to be ridiculed and criticized for what they know to be true. They've been down that road many times and chose not to go there again.

Seems there are a lot of people who insist on aggressively attempting to debunk any claims of this sort of phenomenon. Sometime they get down right malicious in their behavior.

I know this for a fact because I have without a doubt seen spacecraft that is far beyond the scope of what we have achieved. On both occasions, my brother was with me along with others. To this day my brother and myself hold true to what we saw. It's comforting to know we have each other to confide in.


I've definitely also seen some crazy ufo's. No up close personal contact. But ships moving at insane speeds with "impossible" maneuvering, a trail of like 30 ufos that looked like red glowing hour glass shaped lanterns bobbing up and down on waves, but they were in the air, etc.

[John F Kennedy III]

The same goes for believing in the Bible. It takes some huge amount of mental gymnastics to criticize alien-believers while believing in the Bible.

That being said, I don't believe that intelligent aliens ever visited earth. Whether or not the first (proto-)lifeforms came to earth via some sort of meteor impact I don't know. Could be, doesn't have to be.

Amen on your 1st paragraph. I respect your personal view in the 2nd. I'd like to suggest you research what ancient cultures have said about sky people and see what you think then. Of course even if those cultures told the truth, it could just be us from the future.

[John F Kennedy III]

Darwinism is not true evolution lol. Everything evolves... that's not controversial; however, Darwinism is. There is a lot of speculation as to what this beings are. They may very well be an evolutionary humanoid. They may also actually be terrestrial rather than extraterrestrial.

Yes I don't believe in Darwinism. Lol. As I just said in an above post, they may simply be us humans from the future.

[TruckinMike]

I can't believe I'm the first person to comment in this thread that this guy also discusses the new world order in this video and specifically mentions the CFR, Trilateral Commission, and Bilderberg.

Why would a person mention the CFR, Tri-lateral Commission, and the bilderburg group in the same breath ......as.... space Aliens living and working amongst us?

To discredit anyone who mentions the CFR, Tri-lats, or bilderburgers in a negative light.

[satchelmcqueen]

it kills me that we will probably never know the history of our world the way it really happened. all one can do is study and look at all that is presented. i really like reading about what the sumerians had to say and all the other cultures about things in the sky and being taught by other beings.

have you ever read about the anunnaki? its really interesting.
The only way to have the dna strand is by knowing what it looks like. Through research I've done it seems our creation was 200,000-300,000 years ago. Though it's possible that was an earlier version and the current version was created 75,000-80,000 years ago. Many, many ancient cultures told of beings descending from the sky and teaching them. At least a few have surviving stories that these sky beings created us.

[oyarde]

Instead of coming all this way to perform anal probes on us they should just get peoples medical records. Seems like it would be a lot less messy.

Coming soon they can just hack that from Health & Human services and the IRS....

[oyarde]

very interesting you mention them creating us. ive saw much evidence saying the same things. like how did the summarians have our dna strand in a drawing that was found many years ago? and then according to their writings, we were created by the ones who visited this planet by means of dna manipulation. it just blows my mind that they had the dna drawing 10-20 thousand yrs ago.

Sumarians also have the oldest known beer recipe.

[kcchiefs6465]

Amazing Gallery of Space (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/83352730/)

[Intoxiklown]

The claim that the establishment/big business is trying to cover this up is preposterous. Aliens are almost all you see on the history channel anymore, along with other fairy tales we're supposed to believe, like the big bang, evolution, and alternative theories about the Bible. The theory that aliens initiated life on earth is actually quite a popular theory that is talked about on the mass media quite a bit and scientists who believe it are not scorned for their beliefs like creationist scientists are. UFOs can be found all over the mass media, so why do people think the establishment is trying to cover this up?


The Big Bang is an observable scientific fact. Who in God's name told you it was a fairy tale?????

[John F Kennedy III]

it kills me that we will probably never know the history of our world the way it really happened. all one can do is study and look at all that is presented. i really like reading about what the sumerians had to say and all the other cultures about things in the sky and being taught by other beings.

have you ever read about the anunnaki? its really interesting.

It kills me too bro. I have read about the Anunnaki and i personally believe it. Don't ask me to explain Nibiru :p

[kcchiefs6465]

Amazing Gallery of Space (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/83352730/)

(how big the universe is.. mind blowing)

[John F Kennedy III]

(how big the universe is.. mind blowing)

It truly is.

Edit: How the hell could we be alone? The size of the Universe itself argues against it.

[John F Kennedy III]

I read this book by Sitchin just over a year ago. It's a very short book and worth the read right there on the site:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sitchin/sitchinbooks01.htm

[pcosmar]

The Big Bang is an observable scientific fact.

???
When did you "observe" it?

[kcchiefs6465]

It truly is.

Edit: How the hell could we be alone? The size of the Universe itself argues against it.
Over 200 billion stars in the Milky Way alone...

We are but a speck. Not even that. I do not know why they'd be interested in us, except that they put us here. And why they would put us here is an even greater mystery.

Pretty fascinating stuff.

[belian78]

It looks like Paul got lost and couldn't find his way back to this thread.

He 'lost interest'. :D

[CPUd]

I read this book by Sitchin just over a year ago. It's a very short book and worth the read right there on the site:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sitchin/sitchinbooks01.htm

You will probably want to double-check Sitchin's claims, because his material is used as a source for a lot of stuff out there, including Ancient Aliens TV series. He was never a real expert on the Sumerians.

Here is a place to start:
http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/

[John F Kennedy III]

You will probably want to double-check Sitchin's claims, because his material is used as a source for a lot of stuff out there, including Ancient Aliens TV series. He was never a real expert on the Sumerians.

Here is a place to start:
http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/

Thank you I'll look at that right now. I'd love to see any other recommendations you have.

Sort of a sidenote: I think it is particular hard trying to figure out what really happened pre Deluge circa 11,000BC. The flood at the end of the ice age was almost like a computer hard drive wipe.

[John F Kennedy III]

Over 200 billion stars in the Milky Way alone...

We are but a speck. Not even that. I do not know why they'd be interested in us, except that they put us here. And why they would put us here is an even greater mystery.

Pretty fascinating stuff.

Fascinating indeed. I believe they created us and we are pretty much their lab experiment. They pop in and check on us to make sure we haven't blown up the planet yet and at least in the past were HEAVILY involved in trying to guide us in the right direction.

[John F Kennedy III]

He 'lost interest'. :D

Lol :D He got spanked after throwing a hissy fit. Just like he will in the next similar thread when he starts spewing his BS.

[BlackTerrel]

Aliens have been visiting for thousands of years and somehow were able to land in a spot where only government would see them and were able to communicate with us here on earth wherein our leaders told them "hey don't land anywhere where you'll come into contact with citizens".

Seems incredibly complex, implausible, and bound to fail when the aliens who would have to be 10,000 more advanced than we are decide to not listen to our governments and do what they want.

[Zippyjuan]

Given all of the vastness and countless galaxies in the universe it would probably be arrogance to think that we are the only life forms in the universe (along with the other life forms we share the planet with). But it is also arrogant to think that if some life forms are out there that they have identified us as intersting and are visiting in secret. Radio and television signals would not have travelled very far to let them know we are here. Maybe we just don't want to be alone? It is cool to "what if" though.

[Occam's Banana]

Given all of the vastness and countless galaxies in the universe it would probably be arrogance to think that we are the only life forms in the universe (along with the other life forms we share the planet with).

It may indeed be arrogance when some to do so. But I myself do not find it inconceivable that we may be the only intelligent life forms in the universe (or even that the Earth may be the only planet in the universe that harbors any life at all, intelligent or not). And note that I said "inconceivable" - not "likely." Of course, such thoughts are sheer indulgent speculation on my part. But no more speculative or indulgent, I think, than claims that it "stands to reason" that there "must" be "someone" (or, at least, "something") "out there." When it comes to fundamentally and inescapably emprical questions such as this, it just isn't possible to "stand" on one single data point - which is all we've got, at the moment. So when I hear claims that things "just have to be" a certain way - for no other reason than that the speaker can't imagine things being otherwise - my "contrarian" button gets pushed pretty hard. :) (Also, I should mention that I am not a theist - so I am not motivated by any of what you might call the "mono-anthropocentric" concerns that sometimes accompany theism when it is applied to this question).


[...] It is cool to "what if" though.

Yes, it is! And fun.

[CPUd]

They might have just rode by Earth, took one look and said never mind:

http://i.imgur.com/tKo2YCa.jpg

[TaftFan]

Where is this? I saw Mike Gravel

[kcchiefs6465]

Given all of the vastness and countless galaxies in the universe it would probably be arrogance to think that we are the only life forms in the universe (along with the other life forms we share the planet with). But it is also arrogant to think that if some life forms are out there that they have identified us as intersting and are visiting in secret. Radio and television signals would not have travelled very far to let them know we are here. Maybe we just don't want to be alone? It is cool to "what if" though.
Perhaps.

There are extremely well documented cases by a variety of extremely credible witnesses. Physical evidence as well. Perhaps They are what put us here. Perhaps they received one of the radio waves that we've been blasting out into space.. I really couldn't say what their fascination with us would be.

If you look into the cases without bias, you will see that we are indeed being visited by some intelligent being. I could only speculate as to why.

[enoch150]

We can't prove that 1) travel of the sort that would allow any being to reach earth from that far away is even possible

There's a show on the science channel called Through the Wormhole. The new episode titled "Can We Survive the Death of the Sun?" discussed a theoretical way to move millions of people on a ship through space at speeds approaching the speed of light using an array of black holes 1/300th the size of a proton. It would still take several years to get to the nearest stars, but it's the first theory I've heard that would allow interstellar travel in a reasonable time frame.

It's on again on Sunday, 8:00 PM.