Community will ticket parents of bullies

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

http://www.today.com/moms/community-will-ticket-parents-chronic-bullies-6C10172548


Tickets aren’t just for speeding anymore in one Wisconsin community -- cops there can also hand them out to families whose children torment other kids.

Monona, a suburb of Madison, Wis., recently adopted an ordinance that allows police to cite the parents of chronic bullies. If they’re notified in writing that their child is bullying, and the bad behavior happens again within 90 days, the parents can be fined $114 in municipal court.

Julie Hertzog, director of the National Bullying Prevention Center, said this is the first community she has seen pass such a rule. But police noted they don’t expect to use it very often.

“There’s a lot of discretion here. If we go to someone’s house and the parents are just at wit’s end, they don’t know what to do, they’ve tried everything, it’s just not working – we’re not going to write those people tickets. That’s not right, they’re actually trying to fix the problem,” Walter Ostrenga, the town’s chief of police, told TODAY Moms.

Nearly one-third of all school-aged children are bullied each year, according to the National Bullying Prevention Center.
“It’s the ones where you go knocking on the door and they say, ‘Hey, my kid’s perfect, you have no reason to come here,’ and slam the door in your face and they’re totally uncooperative. Those are the ones we’re trying to make an impact on.”

The ordinance covers cyberbullying, Ostrenga said, adding he’s heard nothing but positive comments about the new rule, which was adopted last month. No specific incident prompted the town to take action, he noted, calling bullying a “global issue.”

Hertzog said it’s too early to tell whether other communities might want to follow suit. She sees education as more of the trend in the battle against bullying, rather than financial penalties, and wondered whether a fine would have an effect.

“I think parents should be held accountable for their child’s actions, but I also think that in doing so, they need some education and resources about how they can help their child,” Hertzog told TODAY Moms.

“For so long, we were just looking at our schools as being responsible for this, but now we understand that it’s about community working together: it’s the schools, it’s the parents, it’s the law enforcement.”

One of the most frequently downloaded handouts on the website of the National Bullying Prevention Center is titled, “What if my child is the bully?” Hertzog said.

[kathy88]

FFS :rolleyes:

[Cleaner44]

Isn't bullying just another form of enhanced interrogation? Why stifle these future government workers when they are showing the initiative that will make them tomorrow's leaders? Bullies are doing their best to protect and serve the shit out of their classmates and now some busybody mom wants to jeopardise their future career's by outlawing them? If a bully really must be punished, it seems like sending them home for a week with straight As would be the more sensible idea.

[moostraks]

“For so long, we were just looking at our schools as being responsible for this, but now we understand that it’s about community working together: it’s the schools, it’s the parents, it’s the law enforcement.”

One of the most frequently downloaded handouts on the website of the National Bullying Prevention Center is titled, “What if my child is the bully?” Hertzog said.

More it takes a village crap espoused by those who seek to control everyone. Wonder how long before downloading that info becomes evidence of guilt? Does the state see any irony in how they are the biggest bullies with their constant threats of violence all while emasculating the general public under the guise of providing a public service?

[bunklocoempire]

(^^ love hearing all the other folks that "get it" ^^) :)

Sticks and stones may break my bones but if I feel offended or threatened I'll get a group to threaten or hurt you because I can't be encouraged to defend myself...

This "community help" to curb bullying will only drive the issue underground and make it worse. Bullying is the nature of man and our natural rights observed on paper 200 + years ago have already dealt with the issue.

Another 'reach around' "solution". :mad:

[asurfaholic]

I don't believe that 1/3 of all school aged children are bullied.

That's a pile of crap.

[ronpaulfollower999]

I don't believe that 1/3 of all school aged children are bullied.

That's a pile of crap.

The number is probably higher.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

I don't believe that 1/3 of all school aged children are bullied.

That's a pile of crap.

It helps when you have a very loose definition of bullying.

[Eagles' Wings]

Isn't bullying just another form of enhanced interrogation? Why stifle these future government workers when they are showing the initiative that will make them tomorrow's leaders? Bullies are doing their best to protect and serve the shit out of their classmates and now some busybody mom wants to jeopardise their future career's by outlawing them? If a bully really must be punished, it seems like sending them home for a week with straight As would be the more sensible idea.lol - love the wit

[ronpaulfollower999]

I've noticed most parents of bullies are crappy parents anyway.

Of course, I'm talking about real bullying, not self defense.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Seems like decent incentive for parents to get their little darlings to shape up.

[affa]

I don't believe that 1/3 of all school aged children are bullied.

That's a pile of crap.

based on my experience in school, i'd say it's more like 4/5 if you include everyone over the 12 years of public schooling. some of it brutal, some of it not -- everything from endless taunting to physical abuse.

it's great that you went to a school where stuff like this apparently wasn't prevalent... but I can tell you straight up bullying can be pretty rough. i wasn't bullied all that much, but some of my friends definitely were. my younger sister, who is quite a bit younger than me and grew up in the internet age (and a very different school district), was the subject of a fairly severe case of internet bullying for awhile.

So.... yea. Bullying is a problem. I am not saying this is the solution, however. But I don't think it's the time to ridicule the 'village' notion, because school bullying is very much a case where teacher/parental supervision should be keeping an eye out, because a lot of the kids simply aren't capable (physically/mentally) of defending themselves. if you look like you're two grades younger than you are, or if you stick out for some physical reason, or act too smart, or if you're the wrong color... it can be really rough going.

i'm not even claiming to be innocent of it. i remember one girl from my school named 'horse face'. i don't remember her real name. i don't know if i ever called her that myself, but... like i said, i went to school with her for 12 years and that's the only name i can remember people calling her. that's terrible. that's abusive. not to mention the ancillary issues, like people avoiding being friends w/ her because they don't want to get subjected to overflow abuse.

[Eagles' Wings]

Seems like decent incentive for parents to get their little darlings to shape up.It is a full-time job these days - and we have good kids. I tell them, one stupid word or jesture to someone could get you in big trouble so watch your mouth at all times. Never let your guard down, be alert to what is around you and make good decisions.

I tell you - the public schools feel like a war zone to us. Almost done.

[Eagles' Wings]

@affa - plus rep for a very thoughtful post, thank you

[bunklocoempire]

Seems like decent incentive for parents to get their little darlings to shape up.

Legislating morality no?

I'd much rather see the "victim" defend themselves rather than trying to change the morality of a group. (victim in quotes because bullying seems to be all over the map -I don't deny the worst of it)

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Legislating morality no?

We're at the point where stuff against unprovoked verbal and physical abuse is "legislating morality"? Do you simply parrot that line without thinking?

[kcchiefs6465]

We're at the point where stuff against unprovoked verbal and physical abuse is "legislating morality"? Do you simply parrot that line without thinking?
The parents were bullying the children?

I wonder if the state will also get involved if upon receiving one of these fines, a parent grabs a switch from a tree and whips the piss out of their child?

What an age we live in.

[moostraks]

The parents were bullying the children?

I wonder if the state will also get involved if upon receiving one of these fines, a parent grabs a switch from a tree and whips the piss out of their child?

What an age we live in.

Reminds me of when daughter's guardian ad litem told us she needed to be taken out behind the woodshed. We just rolled our eyes at him after all the hell social services was putting us through at his behest. No, they will not be pleased if the parent takes up paddling them. They, however, have no problem putting them in a cage and demanding they sleep with no mats or bedding. Yeah, try that one at home. :rolleyes:

[Dr.3D]

So what do they expect the parent to do about it? I suppose the parent is expected to give little "Johnnie bully" a time out? Doubt these people would want the parents to paddle the little brat.

[Anti Federalist]

“There’s a lot of discretion here. If we go to someone’s house and the parents are just at wit’s end, they don’t know what to do, they’ve tried everything, it’s just not working – we’re not going to write those people tickets. That’s not right, they’re actually trying to fix the problem,” Walter Ostrenga, the town’s chief of police, told TODAY Moms.

No, you'll send SWAT and CPS and take them.

[Anti Federalist]

Seems like decent incentive for parents to get their little darlings to shape up.

Damn right.

Zero Tolerance.

We need to have cops install cameras in bullies' homes to monitor for compliance as well.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

The parents were bullying the children?

No, but they're responsible for them. That's the price you pay for having children. If your 5-year-old son takes your gun to school and shoots and kills someone, who's getting hauled off to jail: you or him?


Damn right.

Zero Tolerance.

Adult punches adult = arrest for assault. No one has any problem with it.

Kid punches kid = "life lesson, gotta learn to defend themselves." What?

[kcchiefs6465]

No, but they're responsible for them. That's the price you pay for having children. If your 5-year-old son takes your gun to school and shoots and kills someone, who's getting hauled off to jail: you or him?
What?

Your question has absoulutely nothing to do with what we are talking about.

[Anti Federalist]

based on my experience in school, i'd say it's more like 4/5 if you include everyone over the 12 years of public schooling. some of it brutal, some of it not -- everything from endless taunting to physical abuse.

it's great that you went to a school where stuff like this apparently wasn't prevalent... but I can tell you straight up bullying can be pretty rough. i wasn't bullied all that much, but some of my friends definitely were. my younger sister, who is quite a bit younger than me and grew up in the internet age (and a very different school district), was the subject of a fairly severe case of internet bullying for awhile.

So.... yea. Bullying is a problem. I am not saying this is the solution, however. But I don't think it's the time to ridicule the 'village' notion, because school bullying is very much a case where teacher/parental supervision should be keeping an eye out, because a lot of the kids simply aren't capable (physically/mentally) of defending themselves. if you look like you're two grades younger than you are, or if you stick out for some physical reason, or act too smart, or if you're the wrong color... it can be really rough going.

i'm not even claiming to be innocent of it. i remember one girl from my school named 'horse face'. i don't remember her real name. i don't know if i ever called her that myself, but... like i said, i went to school with her for 12 years and that's the only name i can remember people calling her. that's terrible. that's abusive. not to mention the ancillary issues, like people avoiding being friends w/ her because they don't want to get subjected to overflow abuse.

You just described prison, with a little less violence.

You want to end "bullying"?

Abolish the public school/prison system.

[aGameOfThrones]

Community: your kid is a bully, stop him or we'll give you a ticket.

Parents: ok, I'll give him something to remember not to be a bully.

Next day at school...

Community: why are you walking like you're hurt, bully?

Bully: my parents gave me the belt so I'd remember not to be a bully.

Community: CPS, we got a case of child abuse, can you send the swat team?

[moostraks]

No, you'll send SWAT and CPS and take them.

And they learn all sorts of neat tricks in DFACS care. These folks don't have any solutions to the problem, much of the time it is their government environment that allowed them to behave so inappropriately...Raise them in herds and then act surprised when they behave like animals but don't allow anyone who cares about them to punish them as only the state can be entrusted with that.

[Anti Federalist]

Adult punches adult = arrest for assault. No one has any problem with it.

Kid punches kid = "life lesson, gotta learn to defend themselves." What?

I've got a big problem with the first as well.

I'm no big fan of locking people up for a fight or a punch in the nose.

I can not believe what I am reading in this thread...

Some of you folks are OK with even more fines, even more enforcement, even more cops prying around in people's business because of schoolyard bullying, pushing and fighting?

Am I reading that right?

Haven't seat belt laws and helmet laws and drunk driving laws and child services laws and all the rest taught anybody a lesson about where all this will end up???

SMFH...

[aGameOfThrones]

I've got a big problem with the first as well.

I'm no big fan of locking people up for a fight or a punch in the nose.

I can not believe what I am reading in this thread...

Some of you folks are OK with even more fines, even more enforcement, even more cops prying around in people's business because of schoolyard bullying, pushing and fighting?

Am I reading that right?

Haven't seat belt laws and helmet laws and drunk driving laws and child services laws and all the rest taught anybody a lesson about where all this will end up???

SMFH...


With a safer community, zing!

[James Madison]

So, let me get this straight. Government bullies parents, parents can't discipline bullies, government bullies parents, rinse & repeat.

[James Madison]

Compare this thread with this thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?416605-Student-Suspended-For-Saving-Fellow-Student’s-Life&p=5058799#post5058799

[asurfaholic]

It helps when you have a very loose definition of bullying.

I guess I spouted off my own opinion without real facts, but even still - I'd question if occasional picking on someone else has been labeled as bullying.

If i had to guess everyone who ever had their feelings hurt in school said they had been bullied. It's just a guess, but I am aware that we are living in a nation of wussies and pussies.

What do I know though. This is a problem that can be solved at home.

And USA should stop bullying the less fortunate nations around the world, Obama isn't exactly a role model for peace and compassion, that snake.

[erowe1]

If it really were "the community" maybe it would be a good idea. As it is, it's the government, not the community.

[bunklocoempire]

If it really were "the community" maybe it would be a good idea. As it is, it's the government, not the community.

You're an obvious bully lover. /s

+ rep

[affa]

You just described prison, with a little less violence.

You want to end "bullying"?

Abolish the public school/prison system.

Well, yea. No child of mine will go through the public school system. But that doesn't change that many kids are the subject of severe bullying at public schools.

[thoughtomator]

The only way to deal with a bully is to beat the living crap out of him until he understands that initiation of force is not in his interest.

[affa]

I guess I spouted off my own opinion without real facts, but even still - I'd question if occasional picking on someone else has been labeled as bullying.

If i had to guess everyone who ever had their feelings hurt in school said they had been bullied. It's just a guess, but I am aware that we are living in a nation of wussies and pussies.


Bullying often isn't a public affair. If you're not close to a victim, you might not even see it.

It also is important to take into account that actions are cumulative. Let's say you call someone a 'dork'. No big deal, right? It's just a name, get over it. But what if that kid goes through his entire day with everyone else calling him derogatory names (and/or avoiding him)... to the point it's almost like nobody knows his real name? No single individual really 'bullied' him, but the cumulative effect can be traumatic. This is true even if the kid acts like he is okay with the name (like a kid so beat down he accepts, say, 'Fatso' as a nickname) Add in all the normal wear and tear from public schools, and it can break someone. They go home feeling worthless, going to school becomes (even more of) a nightmare.

[bunklocoempire]

The only way to deal with a bully is to beat the living crap out of him until he understands that initiation of force is not in his interest.
I agree.

Or promise to beat the living crap out of him with the means to back it up. Sorta as this OP government "solution" suggests. More like a slap on the wrist or inconvenience handed down from a group.:rolleyes:

Now knowing how government "solutions" work and the moral hazard that comes along with letting a group supposedly take care of your own interests, which approach would promote individual liberty? THAT approach will work best.

I went to a small Christian high school and was bullied pretty badly the first year and 1/2 by a single individual who was a year ahead of me. The final action of that bully was to slowly drive a pencil into my arm about a 1/4 inch drawing my blood -it was a 'study hall' and I didn't have any real options other than to take it and show the bully that I didn't give a crap anymore. Going to a teacher was out of the question as a teacher can't escort you all the time not to mention the bully's typical response to 'tattling'.

Now if that bully's parents let him get to that point in the first place where he would drive a pencil into someone else's arm what was the guarantee that the family was going to have some sort of epiphany after a fine? More likely the parents would discipline their failed experiment just as they have been doing since their bundle of PITA showed up. Seriously, why the hell try to re-train a bully and their mom and or dad? Why not just concentrate on your own self and protect your person?

Again, which approach promotes individual liberty and responsibility?

After that pencil incident I challenged my bully to an afterschool fight, he backed down and ceased any other bullying towards me. He also deescalated his bullying towards the other kids dramatically. I had no idea how to actually fight someone and was pretty freaked about what might happen but ultimately just went with it as it seemed the only option. I DID know deep inside that I was right to stand up to that guy, and I knew that ultimately I would have at least my folks and school staff on my side of the issue. Right is right and my folks and teachers were on the same page with that as far as consequences for bad behavior.

As far as mental torment goes, a friend or a genuine kind word or action goes a long way. Empathy is not enforced but taught and reinforced by a parent or parents who care about other people's kids as well as their own. I practiced kindness to the odd smelling/looking/sounding kids in my high school -and it wasn't because my folks were forced to teach me empathy.

I have no idea how forced empathy is even supposed to work but I DO know what has worked when love for others and self respect is taught and demanded in the household to begin with.

Kindness to others. Self respect. Being able to defend oneself. > Force.

[kcchiefs6465]

Well, yea. No child of mine will go through the public school system. But that doesn't change that many kids are the subject of severe bullying at public schools.
Some kids are the subject of severe bullying. Far less of an epidemic than it is made out to be.

Most everyone is picked on at some point or another though.

I'd imagine times haven't changed that much.

[BAllen]

Oh, yeah. More laws. That always works..............;)

[catfeathers]

My biggest bullies were teachers, one in fifth grade and one in tenth. The fifth grade one was the worst, I had other kids asking me what I did to make that woman hate me so much. Other kids that tried to be bullies weren't much of a problem because I'd fight back.

It's no wonder I want to adopt some more kids to homeschool!

[DamianTV]

More and more ways for others to take money from those with the most problems and that can least afford the fines.

[Occam's Banana]

Seems like decent incentive for parents to get their little darlings to shape up.

Bullies know a lot about providing "decent incentives" to get people to do what they want, and frankly, I see little difference between a cop saying, "Get'cher little darlin' in shape or I'll write ya a ticket" and a schoolyard goon saying, "Gimme yer lunch money or I'll punch yer face in!" (*especially* if these "tickets" involve any revenue collection).

But if you really think it's a good idea to subject your parenting skills (or lack thereof) to the arbitrary scrutiny, "discretion," and approval of patrol cops (acting on behalf of the likes of public-school teachers, disgruntled neighbors, etc.), then by all means, be my guest. Sane people, however, will want no part of it.


“There’s a lot of discretion here. If we go to someone’s house and the parents are just at wit’s end, they don’t know what to do, they’ve tried everything, it’s just not working – we’re not going to write those people tickets. That’s not right, they’re actually trying to fix the problem,” Walter Ostrenga, the town’s chief of police, told TODAY Moms.

Oh, great! So now cops are gonna get to play at being family therapists & counselors who're gonna use their extensive traIning & expertise to suss out who's at "wit's end" and who isn't ... who has really "tried everything" and who hasn't ... who "deserves" a pass and who doesn't ...

Well, fuck that with a sharp stick.

[Occam's Banana]

Question: How long is it going to be before some child who makes a "pop-tart gun" is consequently determined to be a "bully" - and his/her parents ticketed? Discuss ...

[DamianTV]

Seems like decent incentive for parents to get their little darlings to shape up.

Seems to me to be financial incentive for parents to make their children obedient subservients of the State.

[J_White]

so when will they start shooting (suspected) bullies on site ?
they can always say sorry if they shoot the wrong person !

[BAllen]

Seems to me to be financial incentive for parents to make the state's children obedient and subservient.

Fixed it.

[bolil]

Well, they definitely don't want targets learning how to stand up for themselves so I guess this is the logical alternative. It needs be asked what precedent does this set? Should parents, or families, then be held accountable for the actions of a theif? A rapist? A murderer? Uh oh, a traffic offender? Three felonies a day.

One thing I've learned is that TPTB don't play the short game, theye think ahead.