Show TMOT a Little Love!

[ZakCarter]

Our own TMOT (aka Derrick Grayson) is running for the U.S. Senate!

Please take a minute and vote for him in these polls -

http://polldaddy.com/poll/7134489/

http://floydgop.org/

And if you can, please donate to his campaign and help him spread his message!

http://www.grayson2014.com/

GO TMOT!

http://www.youtube.com/user/tmotofga

[juleswin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXp96Um-TAs

[Warlord]

No. HE HAS NO CHANCE in this race.

Ron Paul endorsed Paul Broun >

[GunnyFreedom]

Love TMOT, but he picked the wrong race. TMOT needs to be in public office, but he really should have 1) picked a race smaller than US Senate, and 2) challenged someone worse than Broun. Now, I'm no Broun fan, but going after a 65%er when he is surrounded by 10%ers was not the best strategic move. He should have started in US House, or even better GA Assembly. He is going to get destroyed in this race for no good reason other than biting off a race too big for him to chew right now, despite being someone we need in office, and that will haunt his future runs.

[cajuncocoa]

Our own TMOT (aka Derrick Grayson) is running for the U.S. Senate!

Please take a minute and vote for him in these polls -

http://polldaddy.com/poll/7134489/

http://floydgop.org/

And if you can, please donate to his campaign and help him spread his message!

http://www.grayson2014.com/

GO TMOT!

http://www.youtube.com/user/tmotofga

Done.

[FSP-Rebel]

lol

[Bastiat's The Law]

Love TMOT, but he picked the wrong race. TMOT needs to be in public office, but he really should have 1) picked a race smaller than US Senate, and 2) challenged someone worse than Broun. Now, I'm no Broun fan, but going after a 65%er when he is surrounded by 10%ers was not the best strategic move. He should have started in US House, or even better GA Assembly. He is going to get destroyed in this race for no good reason other than biting off a race too big for him to chew right now, despite being someone we need in office, and that will haunt his future runs.
Once again Gunny speaks wisdom. TMOT needs an ego check. I should think getting crushed and sulking away in the shadows will suffice when all is said and done.

[PatriotOne]

Among what should be a dozen different concerns, TMOT is a convicted felon. Pretty sure that's a non-starter.

[kathy88]

Among what should be a dozen different concerns, TMOT is a convicted felon. Pretty sure that's a non-starter.

Half this board is probably convicted felons. Don't htink anyone really gives a shit.

[PatriotOne]

Half this board is probably convicted felons. Don't htink anyone really gives a shit.

Most non-felons care whether they vote a convicted felon into office. I assume most of the people in GA who vote aren't convicted felons.

[LibertyEagle]

Half this board is probably convicted felons. Don't htink anyone really gives a shit.

I seriously doubt it.

[compromise]

Why is Broun last in this poll?

[TaftFan]

Why is Broun last in this poll?

It really depends on whose supporters find out about it. It is unscientific.

[cajuncocoa]

Among what should be a dozen different concerns, TMOT is a convicted felon. Pretty sure that's a non-starter.
If you make an accusation like that, you ought to back it up with proof. Not saying you're wrong about this, but you WERE making up shit about Kokesh over the weekend.

[amy31416]

Half this board is probably convicted felons. Don't htink anyone really gives a shit.

No, no. Never convicted. :p

[juleswin]

Half this board is probably convicted felons. Don't htink anyone really gives a shit.


Stands to reason why we cannot win any ballot elections. Damn you felons :)

[PatriotOne]

If you make an accusation like that, you ought to back it up with proof. Not saying you're wrong about this, but you WERE making up shit about Kokesh over the weekend.

http://www.myspace.com/degrayson

Minister Derrick E. Grayson, born March 29 of 1960 to Mr. and Mrs. Lee E. and Geneva G. Grayson, was raised in Atlanta, Georgia. Espoused to Mrs. Phyllis M. Grayson, he is the father of all Girls. During, and after honorably serving in the United States Navy, he became a graduate of Florida Jr. College, Beulah Heights Bible College and Devry University. He plans to complete his Masters in Biblical Education and Leadership at Luther Rice Seminary early 2009.

His ministry has been a long struggle of resistance that began when he was convicted and sentenced to prison in 1990. Since that time, the struggles that he has had to overcome have been deafening to his spirit. But by ultimately yielding to the will and might of the Lord, Minister Grayson is here to not only Teach the Word of God, but share his Powerful Testimony of “Choice and Consequence “, “The Struggle of Man against Self” and “Man’s Will against The Word of God”.

Minister Grayson has been called by God to be more than a conqueror in his own life, marriage and family; rather to be messenger of proof that if God can alter the path of a Felon, Adultery, and Thief, how much more so can He [God] change the lives of those who have not been where Minister Grayson has (or have)?

[amy31416]

http://www.myspace.com/degrayson

Minister Derrick E. Grayson, born March 29 of 1960 to Mr. and Mrs. Lee E. and Geneva G. Grayson, was raised in Atlanta, Georgia. Espoused to Mrs. Phyllis M. Grayson, he is the father of all Girls. During, and after honorably serving in the United States Navy, he became a graduate of Florida Jr. College, Beulah Heights Bible College and Devry University. He plans to complete his Masters in Biblical Education and Leadership at Luther Rice Seminary early 2009.

His ministry has been a long struggle of resistance that began when he was convicted and sentenced to prison in 1990. Since that time, the struggles that he has had to overcome have been deafening to his spirit. But by ultimately yielding to the will and might of the Lord, Minister Grayson is here to not only Teach the Word of God, but share his Powerful Testimony of “Choice and Consequence “, “The Struggle of Man against Self” and “Man’s Will against The Word of God”.

Minister Grayson has been called by God to be more than a conqueror in his own life, marriage and family; rather to be messenger of proof that if God can alter the path of a Felon, Adultery, and Thief, how much more so can He [God] change the lives of those who have not been where Minister Grayson has (or have)?

Someone needs to first help him with his grammar. I like the guy and all, but him as a politician? I just can't see it.

[cajuncocoa]

Thanks for the clarification, PatriotNone. I would still take TMOT (bad grammar and all) over 95% of all current House members and Senators.

[PatriotOne]

Thanks for the clarification, PatriotNone. .

Your welcome cajun-cuckoo.


I would still take TMOT (bad grammar and all) over 95% of all current House members and Senators.

Go for it. Max out! I'm sure he'd be grateful for all the help he could get from you.

[TaftFan]

Thanks for the clarification, PatriotNone. I would still take TMOT (bad grammar and all) over 95% of all current House members and Senators.
As would I. But I want to make sure Paul Broun actually wins.

He would be the first person in the Senate who publicly supports ending the Fed. That's critical.

[kathy88]

Thanks for the clarification, PatriotNone. I would still take TMOT (bad grammar and all) over 95% of all current House members and Senators.

What clarification. Convicted and sentenced to prison. Did I miss the felony part?

[cajuncocoa]

What clarification. Convicted and sentenced to prison. Did I miss the felony part?
It was implied in the last paragraph of his MySpace profile.

[ghengis86]

Stands to reason why we cannot win any ballot elections. Damn you felons :)

3 a day in Amerika.

[green73]

Your welcome cajun-cuckoo.



Go for it. Max out! I'm sure he'd be grateful for all the help he could get from you.

You're such a dick.

[PatriotOne]

You're such a dick.

For pointing out that TMOT is a felon and went to prison and not likely to get elected because of it? You'd think people would like to know these things before deciding whether to send him money or not. Only here on this board would a person bringing such critical info be reviled for it...lol.

[talkingpointes]

For pointing out that TMOT is a felon and went to prison and not likely to get elected because of it? You'd think people would like to know these things before deciding whether to send him money or not. Only here on this board would a person bringing such critical info be reviled for it...lol.

Should I spend time to find out who you are and then I can go through the reasons we shouldn't like you. You're rude constantly and not even funny about it. Given the rep, and your amount of posts I would say I'm not the only one that sees it.

[talkingpointes]

It was implied in the last paragraph of his MySpace profile.

To be honest I think he did pick the wrong race, but Broun is 65% liberty. Last week we moved the bar down again. We now allow abortions, lies, but-- you have to say you'll end the FED. Or at least until you're in office.

65%, Ted Cruz votes with Rand 87% and I wouldn't vote for him in a 1000 years.

[green73]

For pointing out that TMOT is a felon and went to prison and not likely to get elected because of it?

No.

[TaftFan]

To be honest I think he did pick the wrong race, but Broun is 65% liberty. Last week we moved the bar down again. We know allow abortions, lies, but-- you have to say you'll end the FED. Or at least until you're in office.

65%, Ted Cruz votes with Rand 87% and I wouldn't vote for him in a 1000 years.

Who came up with 65%?

Broun is probably ahead of Cruz.

[talkingpointes]

Who came up with 65%?

Broun is probably ahead of Cruz.

Read the thread and come back. Or you can match votes with a liberty person.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/paul_broun/412252

He also has a serious attendence problem. Not that that is a big deal, but he is getting paid to work for us.

http://www.ontheissues.org/GA/Paul_Broun.htm

Funny qoute from him: Evolution is "lies straight from the pit of hell" - Paul Broun ROFL

[TaftFan]

Read the thread and come back. Or you can match votes with a liberty person.

So Gunny said 65%. I highly respect him, but I think that is lowballing it.

JBS-wise, he is a 90% liberty person. I give a few extra points for wanting to End the Fed. Because only he and Massie have indicated they would do so. (Amash and Rand haven't)

[PatriotOne]

Should I spend time to find out who you are and then I can go through the reasons we shouldn't like you. You're rude constantly and not even funny about it. Given the rep, and your amount of posts I would say I'm not the only one that sees it.

If I was asking for donations to run for a political party, then yes, you SHOULD spend the time to find out who I am and see if there are reasons not to support me. That is the prudent thing to do.

[talkingpointes]

If I was asking for donations to run for a political party, then yes, you SHOULD spend the time to find out who I am and see if there are reasons not to support me. That is the prudent thing to do.

I agree some what. But you're judging someone that did something almost 30 years ago. He admits it and owns it. If I were to guess I would guess that isn't the problem. I would guess you want professional politicians. That's fine. But don't pretend like that is going to help us - ever.

[talkingpointes]

So Gunny said 65%. I highly respect him, but I think that is lowballing it.

JBS-wise, he is a 90% liberty person. I give a few extra points for wanting to End the Fed. Because only he and Massie have indicated they would do so. (Amash and Rand haven't)

JBS-wise, what does that even mean? Tell me what do YOU think about his votes. This site isn't a democracy, it's a debate.

[talkingpointes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpnB93pynlUThis guy doesn't even believe in evolution and his is on the House Science Committee. "all that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and the big-bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell." At the same event, he also said he believed Earth was less than 9,000 years old and was created in six days.

He is also a dr.

[TaftFan]

JBS-wise, what does that even mean? Tell me what do YOU think about his votes. This site isn't a democracy, it's a debate.

I think his votes are largely where they should be. Often, he is one of three to vote know no on bills.

JBS, or the John Birch Society, does scorecards and include the things we believe in. Broun does very well on them, in the 90+ range. Only a few do that well: Paul, Amash, Jones, Duncan, and McClintock.

[PatriotOne]

I agree some what. But you're judging someone that did something almost 30 years ago. He admits it and owns it. If I were to guess I would guess that isn't the problem. I would guess you want professional politicians. That's fine. But don't pretend like that is going to help us - ever.

It was 23 yrs ago and I wasn't judging him. I don't even know the details of his felony. I was saying he is non-electable because of it. It would be used against him to knock him out of contention by his opponents if he made any headway in the race.

[TaftFan]

With Paul Broun, you get somebody who is not only an A+ on fiscal issues and the Constitution, but is also strong on civil liberties (against indefinite detention, drone strikes, wiretaps, and TSA) and extremely strong on monetary policy (has bills to audit the Fed, end the Fed, and allow competing currencies). His only weakness is foreign policy, though he has opposed Obama's interventions and opposes international organizations like the UN.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/p480x480/391072_10151417382683876_1921785024_n.jpg

[talkingpointes]

It was 23 yrs ago and I wasn't judging him. I don't even know the details of his felony. I was saying he is non-electable because of it. It would be used against him to knock him out of contention by his opponents if he made any headway in the race.

That is opinion, this guy doesn't believe the earth is ever 10 thousand years old. That is a major problem. If you don't think people are going to call him a retard over and over you have another thing coming.

[talkingpointes]

With Paul Broun, you get somebody who is not only an A+ on fiscal issues and states rights, but is also strong on civil liberties (against indefinite detention, drone strikes, wiretaps, and TSA) and extremely strong on monetary policy (has bills to audit the Fed, end the Fed, and allow competing currencies). His only weakness is foreign policy, though he has opposed Obama's interventions and opposes international organizations like the UN.

Foreign policy is everything. Most of problems now days are not from the social welfare. It's from the warfare. How could he be good on finances or civil liberties and be pro-war, that is highly contradicting. I'm guessing if republicans were the ones conducting the war he wouldn't be saying anything at all.

[TaftFan]

That is opinion, this guy doesn't believe the earth is ever 10 thousand years old. That is a major problem. If you don't think people are going to call him a retard over and over you have another thing coming.

No candidate will go after him for it because they don't want to offend the Christian vote.

[TaftFan]

Foreign policy is everything. Most of problems now days are not from the social welfare. It's from the warfare. How could he be good on finances or civil liberties and be pro-war, that is highly contradicting. I'm guessing if republicans were the ones conducting the war he wouldn't be saying anything at all.

My issue rankings are like this:
1-Constitution
2-Monetary policy
3-Foreign policy
4-Civil liberties
5-Fiscal issues

Since Broun fully meets 4 of those qualifications and 1/2 of another, I am more than happy to support him. He isn't a standard Republican by any means.

[talkingpointes]

No candidate will go after him for it because they don't want to offend the Christian vote.

You don't think it's offensive committing a group of people to one mans idea of it?

[talkingpointes]

My issue rankings are like this:
1-Constitution
2-Monetary policy
3-Foreign policy
4-Civil liberties
5-Fiscal issues

Since Broun fully meets 4 of those qualifications and 1/2 of another, I am more than happy to support him. He isn't a standard Republican by any means.

What's not standard, the Ron Paul endorsement? Looks pretty standard to me. War is his real deal and elections are the worry now. How many people are we going to vote in that are just using us.

Also your criteria is pretty shallow, and I could reasonably argue that you would with that criteria vote for 1/3 of republicans and maybe 1/10 of democrats.

[TaftFan]

You don't think it's offensive committing a group of people to one mans idea of it?

Not unless you are thin skinned. But I should probably specify evangelical, which is still huge in GA politics.

Personally I will consider you a Christian brother or sister as long as you believe God created the earth. Time stamps don't matter much to me.

[talkingpointes]

Not unless you are thin skinned. But I should probably specify evangelical, which is still huge in GA politics.

Personally I will consider you a Christian brother or sister as long as you believe God created the earth. Time stamps don't matter much to me.

I'm an atheist and still have questions about life as a whole. But this guy comes from a science background, Derrick does also - he has a masters in computer science. I just think that sure this guy MIGHT benefit us. But I know TMOT will I have no doubt.

Broun like TMOT has a past, but Brouns started about 5 years ago.

[TaftFan]

What's not standard, the Ron Paul endorsement? Looks pretty standard to me. War is his real deal and elections are the worry now. How many people are we going to vote in that are just using us.

Also your criteria is pretty shallow, and I could reasonably argue that you would with that criteria vote for 1/3 of republicans and maybe 1/10 of democrats.

Generally, and Amash/Massie seem to agree, there are just a handful of Republicans that take Constitutional voting seriously. The JBS scorecard backs that up. Broun is probably the best right behind Amash and Massie. He votes alone with them often, and before them with Ron Paul.

Broun is the best person on monetary policy in either house, 'nuff said.

Broun is a firm Jacksonian on foreign policy, as opposed to most Republicans who are Wilsonian. I prefer a mixture of Jacksonian and Jeffersonian, leaning towards that latter. I would say he is one of the least bad on foreign policy.

He's great on civil liberties. Opposes the TSA. Opposes indefinite detention. Opposes extra-judicial killing. Opposes the Patriot Act. And he recently testified on some of these issues. Only a handful of Republicans are strong on civil liberties.

More Republicans are good on fiscal issues, but Broun is always at the top of the FreedomWorks and Club rankings. And no member introduced more bills to cut spending than Broun last session.

[TaftFan]

I'm an atheist and still have questions about life as a whole. But this guy comes from a science background, Derrick does also - he has a masters in computer science. I just think that sure this guy MIGHT benefit us. But I know TMOT will I have no doubt.

Broun like TMOT has a past, but Brouns started about 5 years ago.

I have been following this race closely on the media, and also on Facebook. TMOT has been posting in tons of places, which is expected of a candidate trying to get recognition.

What I have noticed is that he has almost exclusively been attacking Paul Broun. Not the establishment candidates: Kingston, Gingrey, and Handel. My gut tells me he wants to play spoiler. Why I don't know.

And his first blog post? A shadow shot at Paul Broun: http://www.grayson2014.com/evolution_but_i_m_a_christian

[nobody's_hero]

The GOP here in Georgia doesn't even like Broun, so as much as I would like to support TMOT, he has no chance.

[talkingpointes]

I have been following this race closely on the media, and also on Facebook. TMOT has been posting in tons of places, which is expected of a candidate trying to get recognition.

What I have noticed is that he has almost exclusively been attacking Paul Broun. Not the establishment candidates: Kingston, Gingrey, and Handel. My gut tells me he wants to play spoiler. Why I don't know

And his first blog post? A shadow shot at Paul Broun: http://www.grayson2014.com/evolution_but_i_m_a_christian

The guy has a Masters in Computer Science, he is doing analytics. It's pretty simple. Name recognition from Broun is enough.

This is if I was to guess. If he ties he name to Broun people will only see them.(when gooogling) Also I know no one wants to admit it, but do you know the black population of Georgia ? Do you know what that would mean if he can get good name recognition ?

[evilfunnystuff]

I think TMOT could become a successful politician regardless of his history, but he is biting off more than he can chew here.

An unknown candidate, that can't self-fund, in a state wide race, with baggage, it's not gonna happen, and would be especially wasteful if there is already someone running who is significantly above par in the race.

He should really consider a lesser office to start off with. A house seat might be big, but in the right district he could do well with his positive and boisterous personality coupled with his small govt positions.

If he found a more realistic race, I'd be inclined to support him.

[TaftFan]

I think TMOT could become a successful politician regardless of his history, but he is biting off more than he can chew here.

An unknown candidate, that can't self-fund, in a state wide race, with baggage, it's not gonna happen, and would be especially wasteful if there is already someone running who is significantly above par in the race.

He should really consider a lesser office to start off with. A house seat might be big, but in the right district he could do well with his positive and boisterous personality coupled with his small govt positions.

If he found a more realistic race, I'd be inclined to support him.

I advised him on Facebook about this when he was in the exploratory stage. I told him that he would have a better chance going for Broun's and Kingston's open seats. (Gingrey's is too crowded). He essentially said he would only make a difference in the Senate where he could be heard better. I told him look what Ron Paul did in the House and you can't always jump from A-Z. I then brought up the fact that Broun was running, to which he responded with some oddball strawman attack against Broun which he declined to substantiate. (Something about a fee on used cars, he would not explain further).




The guy has a Masters in Computer Science, he is doing analytics. It's pretty simple. Name recognition from Broun is enough.

This is if I was to guess. If he ties he name to Broun people will only see them.(when gooogling) Also I know no one wants to admit it, but do you know the black population of Georgia ? Do you know what that would mean if he can get good name recognition ?

The black population is all in for Obama. Herman Cain was practically shunned by his church.

[TaftFan]

We have been having debates in this Facebook group and TMOT actually posts in it if anybody wants to join so they can see: https://www.facebook.com/groups/newgagopleaders/

[XTreat]

His conviction was drug related, if I remember correctly is was distributing crack cocaine. He talks about it in one of his YouTube vids. No I am not gonna look it up for you.

[PatriotOne]

That is opinion, this guy doesn't believe the earth is ever 10 thousand years old. That is a major problem. If you don't think people are going to call him a retard over and over you have another thing coming.

I couldn't think of a better way to galvanize the Christian vote in favor of Broun. I'm not a Christian but recognize there is a good reason you don't see political ads from ANYONE attacking a candidate for their Christianity in America. It would probably be the most counter-productive ad in the history of political ads ever. Same effect if it was just a bunch of people attacking Broun over the internet.

Besides...you do know TMOT has a Christian Ministry and posts his sermons on Youtube right? It's possible he believes the same thing.

All In or All Out - Half A$$ Christians


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J9wbpJONpg

[PatriotOne]

His conviction was drug related, if I remember correctly is was distributing crack cocaine. He talks about it in one of his YouTube vids. No I am not gonna look it up for you.

Yikes.

[jtstellar]

i like tmot, but if it's true that paul broun is close to ron paul, as some mentioned, to the extent that he even supports abolishing the fed, then all i can say is i wish tmot lived in another state..

can't he run against the other senator from his state? why this year? i'm pretty sure he saw first hand how fruitless it was to run two good candidates at once during the 2012 gary johnson saga.

[FSP-Rebel]

Ted Cruz votes with Rand 87% and I wouldn't vote for him in a 1000 years.
:eek: You'd really be welcomed with open arms in Keene, NH. That said, I'd max out and campaign my ass off for either one of them assuming Cruz stays legit.

[FSP-Rebel]

My whole issue here is that it appears that TMOT is trying to snipe and take support away from the real libertarian republican that has a chance here. As stated previously, he isn't taking shots at the RINOs but is taking potshots at the Ron Paul endorsed candidate. Ron could've easily stayed out of this race but he wanted to use his leverage to help Broun, a proven ally. Now, some here including TMOT are willing to shit on that because Broun apparently isn't a doctrinaire libertarian on every foreign policy issue. Well, to all the high and mighty round these parts, Bossman Ron who preaches this non-interventionist FP HAS endorse him and he wants his supporters to back Broun. I, as a true Ron Paul supporter, ALWAYS backs Ron-endorsed candidates and I'm not talking about meaningless political-related ones from years ago. WTF is any alleged Paul backer doing a) not supporting the Paul approved choice financially and otherwise and b) supporting to any degree anyone running against a Paul approved candidate? >sabotage

[SilenceDewgooder]

It was 23 yrs ago and I wasn't judging him. I don't even know the details of his felony. I was saying he is non-electable because of it. It would be used against him to knock him out of contention by his opponents if he made any headway in the race.

I know this is an old thread and I'm not trying to bump it, but it has reminded me why I so seldom come here anymore. When did this become the "Highlander" - "There can only be one" candidate for liberty and let's completely dismiss anyone that Dr. Paul did not endorse? Dr. Paul may have not endorsed TMOT, but TMOT has been very outspoken in his support for Dr. Paul.

Would you rather no liberty candidates or too many?

As far as the felony "knocking him out of contention" - the last two POTUS both admitted to using coke (and not the kind that fizzes) and how can anyone forget the re-election of Mayor Marion Barry?

[GunnyFreedom]

I know this is an old thread and I'm not trying to bump it, but it has reminded me why I so seldom come here anymore. When did this become the "Highlander" - "There can only be one" candidate for liberty and let's completely dismiss anyone that Dr. Paul did not endorse? Dr. Paul may have not endorsed TMOT, but TMOT has been very outspoken in his support for Dr. Paul.

It's called working smarter not harder. One liberty elected person is better than none. We are going to end up with liberty money working against liberty money here, and that's tragic. I love TMOT, I really do; but I wish to heck he had run for the US House instead of the US Senate here.


Would you rather no liberty candidates or too many?

One liberty Senator from Georgia is better than no liberty Senators from Georgia. Split the fundraising and split the votes. Part of winning is being smart.


As far as the felony "knocking him out of contention" - the last two POTUS both admitted to using coke (and not the kind that fizzes) and how can anyone forget the re-election of Mayor Marion Barry?

[SilenceDewgooder]

It's called working smarter not harder. One liberty elected person is better than none. We are going to end up with liberty money working against liberty money here, and that's tragic. I love TMOT, I really do; but I wish to heck he had run for the US House instead of the US Senate here.

One liberty Senator from Georgia is better than no liberty Senators from Georgia. Split the fundraising and split the votes. Part of winning is being smart.

You don't have give money or vote for someone to support them. The majority of these post seem to be targeting him to promote Broun. This is status quo tactics. There is no need for this. If you love TMOT then let him know and you can tell him that you intend on voting for Broun but he would be your 2nd choice.. and then encourage him to run for the House. That's how you support someone.

"If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand" - Mark 3:25 (but I'm not religious)