Constitutional Warning lands Batavia teacher in hot water

[sailingaway]

A Batavia High School teacher's fans are rallying to support him as he faces possible discipline for advising students of their Constitutional rights before taking a school survey on their behavior.

They've been collecting signatures on an online petition, passing the word on Facebook, sending letters to the school board, and planning to speak at Tuesday's school board meeting.

Students and parents have praised his ability to interest reluctant students in history and current affairs.

But John Dryden said he's not the point. He wants people to focus on the issue he raised: Whether school officials considered that students could incriminate themselves with their answers to the survey that included questions about drug and alcohol use.

Dryden, a social studies teacher, told some of his students April 18 that they had a 5th Amendment right to not incriminate themselves by answering questions on the survey, which had each student's name printed on it.

The survey is part of measuring how students meet the social-emotional learning standards set by the state. It is the first year Batavia has administered such a survey.

School district officials declined to provide a copy of the survey to the Daily Herald, saying the district bought the survey from a private company, Multi-Health Systems Inc., and the contents are proprietary business information.

They did provide the script teachers were to read to students before the test.

It does not tell students whether participation is mandatory or optional.

An April email communication to parents said their children could choose not to take the survey, but they had to notify the district by April 17.

The results were to be reviewed by school officials, including social workers, counselors and psychologists.

The survey was not a diagnostic tool, but a "screener" to figure out which students might need specific help, Newkirk said.

Superintendent Jack Barshinger said teacher support for doing a survey grew after several suicides by students in recent years. Students and staff typically said they had no idea those teens were in distress.

"We can't help them if we aren't aware of their needs," Barshinger said.

The results will also be compared from year to year, to see if interventions offered work, he said.

School officials have already reviewed the surveys and have talked to some students about their answers.

Day of the survey

Dryden said it was just "dumb luck" he learned about the contents. He picked up surveys from his mailbox about 10 minutes before his first class. Seeing students' names on them, unlike past surveys, he started reading the 34 questions.

"Oh. Well. Ummm, somebody needs to remind them they have the ability not to incriminate themselves," he recalled thinking. It was particularly on his mind because his classes had recently finished reviewing the Bill of Rights. And the school has a police officer stationed there as a liaison, he pointed out. Barshinger said the results weren't shared with police.

"I made a judgment call. There was no time to ask anyone," Dryden said. If the survey had been handed out a day or two before, he said, he would have talked to an administrator about his concern.

Instead, he gave the warning to his first-, second- and third-block classes. The test was given to all students during third block.

He suspects it was a teacher who told the administration about what Dryden had done, after the other teacher had trouble getting all the students to take the survey.

But he had also spoken afterward with administrators about the questions. "So I was already on the radar," he said.

Dryden faces having a "letter of remedy" placed in his employment file. He said this week he is negotiating the matter with district authorities.

Only a school board can issue a letter of remedy, whicThe survey asked about drug, alcohol and tobacco use, and emotions, according to Brad Newkirk, chief academic officer.



more: http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20130525/news/705259921/

[aGameOfThrones]

1, Do you dislike the current form of government?

2, Do you think the federal income tax is constitutional?

3, Do you think Congress needs to declare war before it invades another country?

4, Do you hate the department of education?

5, Do you use illegal drugs?

6, Do you keep your illegal drugs in your car?

7, Do you keep your illegal drugs in your house?

8, Do you hate the police?

9, Do you agree that many DAs are assholes?

10, Do you agree that many judges are assholes?

11, Do you agree that Abraham Lincoln was the greatest president until FDR?

etc...



etc...

If you don't answer these questions, "We can't help them if we aren't aware of their needs," Barshinger said.

[Ender]

Good for him! Nice to know there are a few worthy teachers in the system.

[Anti Federalist]

School district officials declined to provide a copy of the survey to the Daily Herald, saying the district bought the survey from a private company, Multi-Health Systems Inc., and the contents are proprietary business information.

Oh, well, that changes everything.

Private company doing it, the kids can go elsewhere, free market, blarg blarg blarg.

The "private" working hand in hand with the "government" to tyrannize you, is called fascism, boy and girls.

[Anti Federalist]

Wonder what part of the dang'an this information will go in?

"Yeah, well it says here, in third grade, you once pushed a dog around on his nose like a wheelbarrow..."

[James Madison]

Oh, well, that changes everything.

Private company doing it, the kids can go elsewhere, free market, blarg blarg blarg.

The "private" working hand in hand with the "government" to tyrannize you, is called fascism, boy and girls.

I wonder if I can claim 'proprietary business information' the next time a cop feels like harassing me.

Cop: Have you been drinking tonight? What have you got in that open bottle there?
JM: The contents of this bottle are proprietary business information of the manufacturer. Please direct any future questions or concerns to the provider of this particular beverage. Good day, officer.

[satchelmcqueen]

wtf?

[WhistlinDave]

I think that's awesome... And highly appropriate for a social studies teacher to use the opportunity as a real world example of how our Constitution is supposed to protect us, to teach the kids something useful they might actually need in life.

Funny how the government loves to punish people these days for nothing more than speaking the truth.

[GunnyFreedom]

Oh, well, that changes everything.

Private company doing it, the kids can go elsewhere, free market, blarg blarg blarg.

The "private" working hand in hand with the "government" to tyrannize you, is called fascism, boy and girls.


I thought opposing fascism was un-libertarian now? Or is that only certain kinds of fascism? Some kinds of fascism don't bother me personally, so anybody who opposes the kinds of fascism that do not bother me personally is clearly a statist lunatic who wants to point guns at innocent people.

Is this one of the designated types of fascism we are allowed to oppose without losing our libertarian credentials? Or is this one of the types of fascism that if we oppose it we become statist tyrants?

This movement is becoming so confusing lately... :(

[sailingaway]

I thought opposing fascism was un-libertarian now? Or is that only certain kinds of fascism? Some kinds of fascism don't bother me personally, so anybody who opposes the kinds of fascism that do not bother me personally is clearly a statist lunatic who wants to point guns at innocent people.

Is this one of the designated types of fascism we are allowed to oppose without losing our libertarian credentials? Or is this one of the types of fascism that if we oppose it we become statist tyrants?

This movement is becoming so confusing lately... :(

I don't think I want to know what part of fascism libertarians are supposed to like...

....good thing I've never been hung up on labels....

[libertyjam]

Oh, well, that changes everything.

Private company doing it, the kids can go elsewhere, free market, blarg blarg blarg.

The "private" working hand in hand with the "government" to tyrannize you, is called fascism, boy and girls.

Back In My Day (BIMD) about half the school would have written a great big Fuck You across the front of it and turned it back in then told any subsequent counselors and psychoshits where to shove it. Then most of their parents would have told them the same thing.

[Anti Federalist]

Meh, he's just one of those long haired hippiecommienazianarchists that make us all look bad.

http://cloudfront-media.reason.com/mc/jsullum/2013_05/John-Dryden.jpg?h=206&w=275

http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/27/high-school-teacher-faces-discipline-for

[torchbearer]

Wonder what part of the dang'an this information will go in?

"Yeah, well it says here, in third grade, you once pushed a dog around on his nose like a wheelbarrow..."


is dang'an pronounce dahn-gahn or dahng-ahn?

[torchbearer]

Meh, he's just one of those long haired hippiecommienazianarchists that make us all look bad.

http://cloudfront-media.reason.com/mc/jsullum/2013_05/John-Dryden.jpg?h=206&w=275

http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/27/high-school-teacher-faces-discipline-for

the dude abides.

[Anti Federalist]

is dang'an pronounce dahn-gahn or dahng-ahn?

Dang'an - simplified Chinese: 档案; traditional Chinese: 檔案; pinyin: dàng'àn

According to BBC journalist Rupert Wingfield-Hayes, "A black mark against you – a bad school report, a disagreement with your boss, a visit to a psychiatrist – all can travel with you for the rest of your life…" [10]

They are also used in investigations by the Ministry of State Security.[11]

[NIU Students for Liberty]

I applied to Batavia High School in March. In hindsight, good thing they didn't hire me :cool:

[DamianTV]

1, Do you dislike the current form of government?

2, Do you think the federal income tax is constitutional?

3, Do you think Congress needs to declare war before it invades another country?

4, Do you hate the department of education?

5, Do you use illegal drugs?

6, Do you keep your illegal drugs in your car?

7, Do you keep your illegal drugs in your house?

8, Do you hate the police?

9, Do you agree that many DAs are assholes?

10, Do you agree that many judges are assholes?

11, Do you agree that Abraham Lincoln was the greatest president until FDR?

etc...

Oooh, if it is a Govt Questionairre of ANY sort, I plead the fucking FIFTH.

[BAllen]

Dang'an - simplified Chinese: 档案; traditional Chinese: 檔案; pinyin: dàng'àn

According to BBC journalist Rupert Wingfield-Hayes, "A black mark against you – a bad school report, a disagreement with your boss, a visit to a psychiatrist – all can travel with you for the rest of your life…" [10]

They are also used in investigations by the Ministry of State Security.[11]

That's as bad as the dogmatic religionists who spout that you pay for every little mistake (sin) you ever make, so you better be perfect. This, of course, is an impossible ideal, and leads to more trouble.

[A Son of Liberty]

Oh, well, that changes everything.

Private company doing it, the kids can go elsewhere, free market, blarg blarg blarg.

The "private" working hand in hand with the "government" to tyrannize you, is called fascism, boy and girls.

Your snide comments in the second sentence are nonsense. Your last sentence is the one which makes sense, and is exactly what any free market anti-statist would agree with.

"Privatization" of state services that remain state services (e.g., prisons, police, and paramilitary which continue to do the states bidding) is no privatization at all.

[NIU Students for Liberty]

"Privatization" of state services that remain state services (e.g., prisons, police, and paramilitary which continue to do the states bidding) is no privatization at all.

This is another area where I departed from Gary Johnson (his advocacy for the "privatization" of prisons).

[Anti Federalist]

Your snide comments in the second sentence are nonsense. Your last sentence is the one which makes sense, and is exactly what any free market anti-statist would agree with.

"Privatization" of state services that remain state services (e.g., prisons, police, and paramilitary which continue to do the states bidding) is no privatization at all.

Snideness otherwise, there are plenty of people that agree with that, that as long as it has "private" written on it somewhere, everything is fine.

I do not.

The "private" can tyrannize you just as fast as the "public" can, and woe betide all of us when the two combine together against us.

[torchbearer]

Snideness otherwise, there are plenty of people that agree with that, that as long as it has "private" written on it somewhere, everything is fine.

I do not.

The "private" can tyrannize you just as fast as the "public" can, and woe betide all of us when the two combine together against us.

at&t, google, etc have already become agencies of the government. everytime they give them access to their databases.

[Lucille]

School Board Reprimands Teacher for Telling Students About Their Right to Remain Silent
http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/29/school-board-reprimands-teacher-for-tell


...Barshinger seems to think it is inconceivable that there could be anything wrong with the survey, since people with good intentions worked on it for "over a year." Yet the survey forms that Dryden picked up from his mailbox 10 minutes before his first class on April 18 not only asked about illegal behavior; they had students' names on them, thereby destroying any assurance of confidentiality. Even if the people who selected the survey were not trying to get students to incriminate themselves, that was the inevitable result if students who had broken the law by drinking or using illegal drugs answered the questions candidly. What guarantee did they have that their answers would not be used against them, if only to pressure them into accepting the "supportive intervention" deemed appropriate by the school? As Ronald Reagan was fond of saying, much damage can be caused by people from the government who are "here to help."

"These kids need to know that the U.S. Constitution is there for them," Batavia Alderman Alan Wolff told the school board yesterday, referring to the Fifth Amendment's ban on compelled self-incrimination, which Dryden mentioned as he distributed the survey forms. Another Batavia High School teacher, Scott Bayer, said Dryden was not alone in thinking it was important to let students know they were not obligated to answer the questions if doing so involved admitting crimes. "Every teacher I talked to addressed students in the same way," he said. Perhaps we can expect more written warnings of improper conduct.

Taking the Fifth, Because No One Can Pledge Confidentiality any More
http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2013/05/taking-the-fifth-because-no-one-can-pledge-confidentiality-any-more.html


Teacher John Dryden was absolutely correct in counseling his students to take the fifth rather than fill out a school drug use survey. Three cheers for him
[...]
Forget for a minute whether or not the public school employees were trustworthy (which is a heroic assumption in and of itself). But consider local law enforcement. They get a tip that kids have admitted drug use on these forms. What do they do? Well in many jurisdictions (imagine our own Joe Arpaio in action here) the police would immediately pull out every legal stop (and a few illegal ones likely) to seize these surveys.

Don't believe me? Back in 2003 Major League Baseball asked its players to take a super-confidential drug test whose results would never be released for the purpose of assessing the extent of steroid use in baseball (almost exactly the same purpose the school is claiming). Eventually, the FBI, Congress, and every other government agency tried, and were eventually mostly successful, in obtaining these supposedly secret confidential tests.

Several years later, Frank Mitchell was asked by MLB to investigate the steroid issue. He asked for players to speak to him "confidentially" about steroid use. The Players Association took better care of its members than this particular school does of its students, counseling players:


...while Senator Mitchell pledges in his memo that he will honor any player request for confidentiality in his report, he does not pledge, because he cannot pledge, that any information you provide will actually remain confidential and not be disclosed without your consent. For example, Senator Mitchell cannot promise that information you disclose will not be given to a federal or state prosecutor, a Congressional committee, or perhaps turned over in a private lawsuit in response to a request or a subpoena.

This is EXACTLY the statement that could and should have been made to students about this drug survey -- three cheers for one brave teacher willing to do so. Shame on the rest of the school for its naivete (at best) and callous disregard for the students (at worst).

[sailingaway]

what complete....

words fail, but this spot is reserved for when they occur to me >>>