SESSIONS: Immigration bill 'hammers' working Americans

[Warlord]

Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) said Friday that the Senate immigration reform bill would “hammer working Americans.”

Sessions, one of the immigration overhaul’s most strident critics, suggested the measure would prioritize foreign-born workers over people already in the U.S. struggling to find a job.

“This is far, far too many low-skilled workers that are going to take jobs and pull down wages of people unemployed and underemployed right now,” Sessions, a senior member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said on Fox Business. “It's really, really dangerous.”

The Senate Judiciary panel cleared the immigration bill crafted by the so-called “Gang of Eight” this week by a bipartisan 13-5 vote, and its supporters hope to rack up 70 votes in the chamber.

But Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), one of the Gang of Eight, said Friday that the vote doesn’t yet have 60 votes in the chamber.

Sen. Orrin Hatch (Utah), another senior Republican on the Judiciary panel, voted for the measure in committee, but has said he might not back it on the Senate floor.

In his Friday interview, Sessions stressed that the unions for the officers that guard the border opposed the immigration bill, and that the measure would be a huge burden on the American safety net.

“We believe in immigration,” Sessions said. “All of us do. And we all believe that we need to make this legal system of immigration better. This bill just does not do it, and it can't pass in this form.”


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/301979-sessions-immigration-bill-will-hammer-working-americans

[ObiRandKenobi]

Sessions has been great on this issue.

[Warlord]

KILL THE BILL

[Michelangelo]

Ooooooh. It's a job problem that worries everyone. If that is the case make it illegal to trade outside your neighborhood. No trading more than a mile from your home. That'll really increase the amount of work everyone gets!

[ObiRandKenobi]

Ooooooh. It's a job problem that worries everyone. If that is the case make it illegal to trade outside your neighborhood. No trading more than a mile from your home. That'll really increase the amount of work everyone gets!

Rubiocare's proponents have used accusations of racism, comparisons to slavery, and good ol' fashioned bribery to push the legislation.

If Rubiocare's opponents wants to use a little demagoguery here and there? All's fair...

[Warlord]

Obi, check out some of our old research threads on the puppet extraordinaire:

Rubio voted to DOUBLE Florida's school tax:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?400305-Rubio-voted-to-DOUBLE-Florida-schools-tax

And of course Conda is behind him who hates Rand Paul and was Deadly Dick Cheney's former chief of staff:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?411215-Rubio-s-Chief-of-Staff-has-ties-to-Bank-Bailout-lobbyist&p=4973248&viewfull=1#post4973248

Rubio supports Rove's fake 'Conservative' Victory Project that aims to pick and choose in Republican primaries:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?404479-Rubio-Backs-Rove-s-quot-Conservative-Victory-Project-quot

Rubio is a neocon who wants to intervene everywhere:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?404511-Come-2016-Rand-could-be-the-Anti-Rubio-Choice-for-the-Tea-Party&p=4874929&viewfull=1#post4874929

Team Rubio in 2010:

-
Recognizing the threat [of Rand Paul], a well-connected former aide to Vice President Dick Cheney convened a conference call last week between Grayson and a group of leading national security conservatives to sound the alarm about Paul.

“On foreign policy, [global war on terror], Gitmo, Afghanistan, Rand Paul is NOT one of us,” Cesar Conda wrote in an e-mail to figures such as Liz Cheney, William Kristol, Robert Kagan, Dan Senor and Marc Thiessen.
-


Deadly Dick Cheney's a "big fan" of Rubio

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?404454-Cheney-on-Rubio-quot-I-m-a-big-fan-quot

and on and on it goes...

[ObiRandKenobi]

Obi, check out some of our old research threads on the puppet extraordinaire:

Rubio voted to DOUBLE Florida's school tax:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?400305-Rubio-voted-to-DOUBLE-Florida-schools-tax

And of course Conda is behind him who hates Rand Paul and was Deadly Dick Cheney's former chief of staff:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?411215-Rubio-s-Chief-of-Staff-has-ties-to-Bank-Bailout-lobbyist&p=4973248&viewfull=1#post4973248

Rubio supports Rove's fake 'Conservative' Victory Project that aims to pick and choose in Republican primaries:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?404479-Rubio-Backs-Rove-s-quot-Conservative-Victory-Project-quot

Rubio is a neocon who wants to intervene everywhere:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?404511-Come-2016-Rand-could-be-the-Anti-Rubio-Choice-for-the-Tea-Party&p=4874929&viewfull=1#post4874929

Team Rubio in 2010:

-
Recognizing the threat [of Rand Paul], a well-connected former aide to Vice President Dick Cheney convened a conference call last week between Grayson and a group of leading national security conservatives to sound the alarm about Paul.

“On foreign policy, [global war on terror], Gitmo, Afghanistan, Rand Paul is NOT one of us,” Cesar Conda wrote in an e-mail to figures such as Liz Cheney, William Kristol, Robert Kagan, Dan Senor and Marc Thiessen.
-


Deadly Dick Cheney's a "big fan" of Rubio

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?404454-Cheney-on-Rubio-quot-I-m-a-big-fan-quot

and on and on it goes...

I will. Thanks.

[Brian4Liberty]

And higher unemployment (reality, not gov stats) leads to expansion of the welfare state.

[Michelangelo]

And higher unemployment (reality, not gov stats) leads to expansion of the welfare state.

Ionno man. You can have a welfare state and a low unemployment rate. I don't see the correlation.

[Carson]

"SESSIONS: Immigration bill 'hammers' working Americans"

And moves Americans looking for work to the end of the line.

[Michelangelo]

"SESSIONS: Immigration bill 'hammers' working Americans"

And moves those looking for work to the end of the line.

Except increasing the supply of labour increases the number of jobs available.. Bros, do you even econ?

[jtstellar]

it's the emergency room and public schools/other forms of welfare subsidies that need reform quite frankly that otherwise would be compounded by an expanding population. people taking jobs below minimum wage that otherwise won't be there in the first place isn't quite actually the problem.

[Philhelm]

While some may not believe in the concept of a nation, such a situation exists. If the nation-state must exist, it is foolish to import people and export jobs.

[Michelangelo]

While some may not believe in the concept of a nation, such a situation exists. If the nation-state must exist, it is foolish to import people and export jobs.

See the problem with this is the idea that the US is a nation-state. It isn't, has never been, and likely never will. The European states can at least pretend to be nation-states, but the US? It has never been homogeneous in any meaningful way.

Religiously it may have a Christian majority, but the differences between denominations are by no means small. The Pacific states have a significant irreligious community. Hawaii has never held a Christian majority unless I'm mistaken. There is a significant Christian community in the US, but they are not mutually inclusive.

Are we a nation by ethnicity? No. The largest ancestry group is German, but by no means are we a German nation. Blacks historically and presently outnumber whites in several regions of the nation. Even if you somehow reversed the trend of the southwest becoming dominated by Hispanics, you'd still have the issue of the blacks. Even if the blacks all vanished overnight it isn't as if the whites are as homogeneous as some treat them. Hell, you'd still have the Asian-Pacific populations of Hawaii and the Amerindians.

Are we a nation because of common history? Not really. The narrative of the 1776 revolution might make a nice story for the kiddies, but it extends no further than the eastern states. The Mexican War of Independence, the Liberal-Conservative Mexican Civil Wars, and the Texas Revolution are much more important for those of us in the western states. The Spanish-American War is more important for those in Puerto Rico. The overthrow of the Hawaiin monarchy matters much more for Hawaii. Etc. Etc.

The closest thing we have to unifying us all is the English language. That's hardly a good measure of a nation though. English has become the world's de facto language in the sciences and the internet. If knowledge of the English language is sufficient to make the US a nation, then the whole of the Anglophone world should join the US.

The US is not a nation-state. It is an empire. Want a nation-state? Split the US up. I'm sure you could form a progressive-irreligious nation out of New England or a Christian nation in the bible belt. Utah and its neighbors could probably make a decent Mormon nation-state.

[Brian4Liberty]

Ionno man. You can have a welfare state and a low unemployment rate. I don't see the correlation.

Supply and demand. More workers, fewer jobs mean higher unemployment. People without jobs sign up for unemployment insurance, food stamps and welfare.

[The Free Hornet]

Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) said Friday that the Senate immigration reform bill would “hammer working Americans.”

This isn't a liberty person, take your bullshit elsewhere.


Voted YES on increasing penalties for drug offenses. (Nov 1999)
Voted YES on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
Voted YES on regulating tobacco as a drug. (Jun 2009)
Voted YES on $40 billion per year for limited Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Jun 2003)
Voted YES on limiting self-employment health deduction. (Jul 1999)
Voted YES on extending the PATRIOT Act's roving wiretaps. (Feb 2011) (http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Jeff_Sessions.htm)

If he wanted people to work, he'd be against that war. He only wants connected people to work and dipshits get sucked into his zero sum thinking. Of course, when government defines the jobs we can do, zero sum becomes a closer approximation to reality.

[Warlord]

This isn't a liberty person, take your bullshit elsewhere.



If he wanted people to work, he'd be against that war. He only wants connected people to work and dipshits get sucked into his zero sum thinking. Of course, when government defines the jobs we can do, zero sum becomes a closer approximation to reality.

Warlord thinks you'll find like 80-90 of the senators have all voted like him.

Yes, it's that bad.

[Warhorse]

Ionno man. You can have a welfare state and a low unemployment rate. I don't see the correlation.

Here's a correlation: more tanks and half-tracks, less war horses.

I would know, I'm the last Warhorse.

More immigration, less jobs for the people already here, certainly in the short term.

[Warlord]

Warlord and his men once banded together and purchased a Warhorse but after extensively overworking him between battles we decided to cash in and sold it to some abattoir in Belgium.

[Warhorse]

Warlord and his men once banded together and purchased a Warhorse but after extensively overworking him between battles we decided to cash in and sold it to some abattoir in Belgium.

I thought in the movie, they were in France, but what does this Warhorse know?

[Warlord]

I thought in the movie, they were in France, but what does this Warhorse know?

An old trick: The Belgiums butcher it first and take the best cuts and the French get what's left over. One of Warlord's agents facilitates the deal with shockingly convincing forged invoices to satisfy dim witted EU bureaucrats.

[Warhorse]

An old trick: The Belgiums butcher it first and take the best cuts and the French get what's left over. One of Warlord's agents facilitates the deal with shockingly convincing forged invoices to satisfy dim witted EU bureaucrats.
Important info, I will note.

[CPUd]

http://i.imgur.com/PnfnZzj.jpg

[Danan]

http://www.thegreatbritishcommunity.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/they_took_our_jobs_tshirt-d23564803.jpg

[Michelangelo]

Supply and demand. More workers, fewer jobs mean higher unemployment. People without jobs sign up for unemployment insurance, food stamps and welfare.


Here's a correlation: more tanks and half-tracks, less war horses.

I would know, I'm the last Warhorse.

More immigration, less jobs for the people already here, certainly in the short term.

http://i.imgur.com/nkYNwKX.png

Ionno bros. I'm pretty sure an increased labour supply sees an increase in both jobs and in real wages.

Tell you what. If I'm wrong then we can start sterilizing all the women in the US. Migration isn't the only way the labour force increases after all. There is a far more sinister way for invaders to come into our great country and start suckling (literally!) on the government's tit - being born here. A restrictive migration policy isn't enough! We need to sterilize all the womens!

[Danan]

Exactly right, Michelangelo. For some reason many people believe that immigrants' only desire is to work for as little money as possible without consuming anything. The truth of the matter is, as labor supply increases, labor demand increases too. What we end up with is a greater workforce => more specialiazation => a greater comperative advantage => increasing output per capita.

[BAllen]

http://i.imgur.com/nkYNwKX.png

Ionno bros. I'm pretty sure an increased labour supply sees an increase in both jobs and in real wages.

Tell you what. If I'm wrong then we can start sterilizing all the women in the US. Migration isn't the only way the labour force increases after all. There is a far more sinister way for invaders to come into our great country and start suckling (literally!) on the government's tit - being born here. A restrictive migration policy isn't enough! We need to sterilize all the womens!

NOT true. More immigrants=more tax burden. More schools, roads, welfare, etc. Net loss. This results in higher taxes, which means less disposable income for people, which of course, results in less spending, fewer goods sold.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Spew all the theoretical formulas you wish, it is a know fact,corporations/HR departments are seeking to lower wages/costs. That has been covered numerous times. Bill Gates and the crowd of monopolies spend millions lobbying Washington DC and state capitals for more immigrant workers, VISAs, amnesty, etc. But these are the same Fascists that fired American workers routinely and replace with lower wage and/or foreign workers.

OKAY then, I say let's start by replacing all government workers at half wage/benefits, starting with all those on Capital Hill, White House, and the entire Washington DC .gov metro area.

'What's good for the goose is good for the gander'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik

[Michelangelo]

NOT true. More immigrants=more tax burden. More schools, roads, welfare, etc. Net loss. This results in higher taxes, which means less disposable income for people, which of course, results in less spending, fewer goods sold.

Illegals are paying taxes as well. By allowing them to freely work they will move up the economic ladder and pay even more taxes (and increase demand for labour).

[BAllen]

Illegals are paying taxes as well. By allowing them to freely work they will move up the economic ladder and pay even more taxes (and increase demand for labour).

Doesn't work that way, skippy. Only in your fantasy land. In reality, there aren't enough higher paying jobs to make up for the added tax burden.

[Warlord]

LOL Hollywood.

You need to empty your inbox of messages as its full bud.

[Michelangelo]

Spew all the theoretical formulas you wish, it is a know fact,corporations/HR departments are seeking to lower wages/costs. That has been covered numerous times. Bill Gates and the crowd of monopolies spend millions lobbying Washington DC and state capitals for more immigrant workers, VISAs, amnesty, etc. But these are the same Fascists that fired American workers routinely and replace with lower wage and/or foreign workers.


.... So, economics is not well liked here? Is this still the Ron Paul forums? Or do ya'll only like to use economics when it concerns the gold standard and throw it under the boat afterward?



OKAY then, I say let's start by replacing all government workers at half wage/benefits, starting with all those on Capital Hill, White House, and the entire Washington DC .gov metro area.


Half wages? You're being too generous. They shouldn't receive a cent from taxpayers.


Doesn't work that way, skippy. Only in your fantasy land. In reality, there aren't enough higher paying jobs to make up for the added tax burden.

Ahuh... except increased labour the market and creates more jobs. See the graph above.

[HOLLYWOOD]

.... So, economics is not well liked here? Is this still the Ron Paul forums? Or do ya'll only like to use economics when it concerns the gold standard and throw it under the boat afterward?



Half wages? You're being too generous. They shouldn't receive a cent from taxpayers.



Ahuh... except increased labour the market and creates more jobs. See the graph above.It's called Fascism and the 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto, there's little economics or free markets left in big government RICO America.

Americans are being taxed through numerous avenues/policies to payoff those racketeering/bribed entities the very officials, who steal from the taxpayers to reward. Neat little mafioso racket marriage of wealth power and political power.

[Michelangelo]

It's called Fascism and the 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto, there's little economics or free markets left in big government RICO America.

Americans are being taxed through numerous avenues/policies to payoff those racketeering/bribed entities the very officials, who steal from the taxpayers to reward. Neat little mafioso racket marriage of wealth power and political power.

It's fascism to get rid of government intervention in the labour market?

[Warlord]

Here's a general rule that has served this Warlord well:

Anything Schumer does is bad and must be voted against/stopped/filibustered/exposed/ridiculed/flooded with non-germane amendments/ruined/poisoned/bogged down in committee/destroyed.

[BAllen]

.... So, economics is not well liked here? Is this still the Ron Paul forums? Or do ya'll only like to use economics when it concerns the gold standard and throw it under the boat afterward?



Half wages? You're being too generous. They shouldn't receive a cent from taxpayers.



Ahuh... except increased labour the market and creates more jobs. See the graph above.

Pffft! More government jobs. Yeah, that works great, huh?

[JorgeStevenson]

Simply astonishing how backwards this website is on immigration.

If a man makes a contract with another man, whether it be for labor or housing, we on this site advocate that this contract is binding to both parties. That all goes flying out the window if one of the parties to the contract was born on one side of a river while the other was born on another. Suddenly the government must outright ban contracts entered into by free individuals in the interest of protecting a certain favored class. Sounds a hell of a lot like minimum wage laws, consumer protection laws, price floors/ceilings, legal tender laws, and any number of other things that we universally deride on this site.

If we are so concerned about costs for schools & police going up, why don't we get up in arms about inter or intra state immigration? After all, school and policing is generally paid for at the state or local level. If we are going to accept the idea that we can ban people from entering into contracts based on where they are from because of an undue burden on the welfare state, why can't we ban intra-state immigration?

[Warlord]

Simply astonishing how backwards this website is on immigration.

If a man makes a contract with another man, whether it be for labor or housing, we on this site advocate that this contract is binding to both parties. That all goes flying out the window if one of the parties to the contract was born on one side of a river while the other was born on another. Suddenly the government must outright ban contracts entered into by free individuals in the interest of protecting a certain favored class. Sounds a hell of a lot like minimum wage laws, consumer protection laws, price floors/ceilings, legal tender laws, and any number of other things that we universally deride on this site.

If we are so concerned about costs for schools & police going up, why don't we get up in arms about inter or intra state immigration? After all, school and policing is generally paid for at the state or local level. If we are going to accept the idea that we can ban people from entering into contracts based on where they are from because of an undue burden on the welfare state, why can't we ban intra-state immigration?

Anything Schumer does is bad and must be voted against/stopped/filibustered/exposed/ridiculed/flooded with non-germane amendments/ruined/poisoned/bogged down in committee/destroyed.

[JCDenton0451]

Sessions has been great on this issue.

I wish he had criticised the bill from a libertarian, rather than a socialist perspective, but at this point any kind of criticism is good. This 'immigration reform' needs to die.

[JCDenton0451]

If we are so concerned about costs for schools & police going up, why don't we get up in arms about inter or intra state immigration? After all, school and policing is generally paid for at the state or local level. If we are going to accept the idea that we can ban people from entering into contracts based on where they are from because of an undue burden on the welfare state, why can't we ban intra-state immigration?

If you really see no difference between US domestic migration, and third-world immigration, then you are the one who is backward here. No offence, but you sound like you could really use some education on the matters of migration/immigration.

[Michelangelo]

Pffft! More government jobs. Yeah, that works great, huh?


Who said government jobs?


Anything Schumer does is bad and must be voted against/stopped/filibustered/exposed/ridiculed/flooded with non-germane amendments/ruined/poisoned/bogged down in committee/destroyed.

Hitler fallacy. Just because x approves of something doesn't mean said something is awful. There is plenty awful in the new reform bill like e-verify or their plan to introduce drones in the border region. Letting foreigners stay isn't one of those awful things though.

[The Free Hornet]

Simply astonishing how backwards this website is on immigration.

I don't know if it is so much this website, or rather the type of person who - during election off-season - has time like "Warlord" to flood the site with fascist crap. I've blocked rpforums at work to focus on work and come here less often while leaving more disappointed.

Zero-sum thinkers have a lot in common with rent seekers. They view jobs as things to which they are entitled. They also misunderstand the tax burden which is whatever the government can take supplemented by how much they can devalue the currency. Who they give it to is of little consequence except to the extent it reinforces their power.

No note on thread about farm subsidies yet:


Voted NO on limiting farm subsidies to people earning under $750,000. (Dec 2007) (http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Jeff_Sessions.htm#Jobs)

Fear not, Foxworthies, he's thinking of you too:


Voted YES on increasing minimum wage to $7.25. (Feb 2007) (http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Jeff_Sessions.htm#Jobs)

Some people here aren't in on the joke that is taxes and the $.

[BAllen]

Who said government jobs?

I did. Can't you read?

[Michelangelo]

I did. Can't you read?

No senor. Yo fuey a una escuela publica. ;_;

[Carson]

Did you here the one about the guy’s wife that killed all of his children because she wanted to make more room for the home invaders?

Oh what.

It wasn't his wife. It was his country.

Back in the 60’s the Federal Government came into the public schools and brainwashed us as little children with the message that the children we were about to have were unwanted because the population was rising so fast. They launched a program called, “Zero Population Growth”. They pushed Family Planning and birth control pills. Now they call the same programs, "Safe Sex" but the results are the same. I think you and I both know that you only have to trick people for their few child bearing years and there is no going back.

Many of us never had a say in the future of our unborn.

I am the result of two living cells. One from each of my parents. They are the result of two living cells, one from each of their parents. I wasn't just born. I am a continuation of life. I am a living thing that reaches back into time perhaps 400 million years and the result of billions of joining of pairs of cells. It is possible that if you were to follow my cells back to my parent’s cells and beyond that my family tree touches every living thing here on earth. That is if we limit ourselves to believing life was created here on earth. If it rained down from the immensity of the universe it could reach back into that immensity of time and space, and who knows what relationships and who knows what species.

My family line succeeded, at least until I came up against the Federal Government.

I have seen the Federal Government do little else to control the population.

The open borders, United States laws only apply to some, is a serious slap in the face. No. Not a slap in the face. It reaches well beyond that. Maybe back to the beginning of time and stretch to the bounds of the universe.

[Carson]

I remember back in the olden days when if we truly needed people at work we brought them in legally. They worked with us side by side for the same wages and benefits.

Sometimes when their visa's ran out they decided not to renew and decided to move back home. I was living in a military town then and it was always a bummer when people were moving away. One thing with coworkers moving was with many of them I learned a lot. Some of that stayed with me. I hoped that some of our way of doing things went back home with them and would be shared around the world. I'm not so proud of what we share now.

Look how many of us are playing illegal aliens into the hands of the criminals in the government and business. They seem to think they are doing them a big favor. The way it looks to me is many are being taken. They made better wages and benefits when it was above board. Soon another amnesty will roll in and many of us may get replaced by the new illegals. The criminals in business seem to like the cheap labor. The criminals in the government seem to all be on the central banks payroll in some way. Think about how the central banks may profit from all of the loans to subsidize the social services for business illegal labor.

Seem to me they are in cahoots.

Seems to me to be a global problem. Did I ever tell you...


When I started looking into where the money was coming from to buy off the politicians and subvert the immigration laws of the world, I came across what may be the root of many of our problems. Fiat Money.

Maybe this will help make the danger of fiat money clear.

Imagine you and me are setting across from each other. We create enough money to represent all of the world's wealth. Each one of us has one SUPER Dollar in front of him.

You own half of everything and so do I.

I'm the government though. I get bribed into creating a Central Bank.
You're not doing what I want you to be doing so I print up myself eight more SUPER Dollars to manipulate you with.

All of a sudden your SUPER Dollar only represents one tenth of the wealth of the world!

That isn't the only thing though. You need to get busy and get to work because YOU'VE BEEN STIFFED with the bill for the money I PRINTED UP to get YOU TO DO what I WANTED.

That to me represents what has been happening to the economy, and us, and why so many of our occupations just can't keep up with the fake money presses.


Hey but what ever.

[JorgeStevenson]

Anti-immigration folks - this is the logical extension of your current stance on immigration:

(Ann Coulter on the Drug War) (http://reason.com/archives/2013/05/23/the-conservative-welfare-state)


A student raised Coulter’s ire by questioning her hawkish drug war stance: “How is it your business what I choose to put in my body?”

“It is my business when we are living in a welfare state,” Coulter responded. “Right now, I have to pay for…your health care. I have to pay your unemployment.…I have to pay for your food, for your housing.…Get rid of the welfare state, then we’ll talk about drug legalization.”


This is literally the exact argument that big-government border freak conservatives make about immigration. According to them, they would be all fine and dandy with immigration in a world where we did not have the welfare state. But according to them, the existence of the welfare state changes everything. Suddenly, it's okay to adopt big government control freak policies in order to supposedly lighten the load on the welfare state.

Are you prepared to support the drug war as well?

[Warlord]

Coulter is a moron... are you saying she speaks for Warlord or anyone else here?

[Brian4Liberty]

See the problem with this is the idea that the US is a nation-state. It isn't, has never been, and likely never will. The European states can at least pretend to be nation-states, but the US? It has never been homogeneous in any meaningful way.
...
Are we a nation by ethnicity? No. The largest ancestry group is German, but by no means are we a German nation. Blacks historically and presently outnumber whites in several regions of the nation. Even if you somehow reversed the trend of the southwest becoming dominated by Hispanics, you'd still have the issue of the blacks. Even if the blacks all vanished overnight it isn't as if the whites are as homogeneous as some treat them. Hell, you'd still have the Asian-Pacific populations of Hawaii and the Amerindians.

Are we a nation because of common history? Not really. The narrative of the 1776 revolution might make a nice story for the kiddies, but it extends no further than the eastern states. The Mexican War of Independence, the Liberal-Conservative Mexican Civil Wars, and the Texas Revolution are much more important for those of us in the western states. The Spanish-American War is more important for those in Puerto Rico. The overthrow of the Hawaiin monarchy matters much more for Hawaii. Etc. Etc.

The closest thing we have to unifying us all is the English language. That's hardly a good measure of a nation though. English has become the world's de facto language in the sciences and the internet. If knowledge of the English language is sufficient to make the US a nation, then the whole of the Anglophone world should join the US.

The US is not a nation-state. It is an empire. Want a nation-state? Split the US up. I'm sure you could form a progressive-irreligious nation out of New England or a Christian nation in the bible belt. Utah and its neighbors could probably make a decent Mormon nation-state.

What in the world are you talking about? Nations can only exist if they are racially or ethnically homogenous?

[DamianTV]

And higher unemployment (reality, not gov stats) leads to expansion of the welfare state.

... because a people dependant are much easier to control and less likely to say anything when obvious lines are crossed.

[DamianTV]

Ionno man. You can have a welfare state and a low unemployment rate. I don't see the correlation.

Yeah, people can feed themselves just fine when they have zero income. Hell, they can even afford to go buy brand new cars, wide screen tvs, and houses after they got laid off or fired from that part time minimum wage job they were struggling to hold on to.

Unemployment Benefits and Food Stamps count as Welfare in my book.

[BAllen]

... because a people dependant are much easier to control and less likely to say anything when obvious lines are crossed.

Right. It's a form of slavery. The 'benevolent' (should be malevolent) government imposes regulations and taxes that make it difficult to be independent. They also spread propaganda through schools and media outlets. Then they offer 'help' in the form of government benefits, which is nothing more than dependence.