How the NRA took down a traitor in Tennessee

[Warlord]

A lesson we could all learn?


-
NRA tactics: Take no prisoners

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_404h/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2013/04/26/Investigative/Images/AP120712148952.jpg

As a lifetime member of the National Rifle Association with an “A+” rating for her voting record in the Tennessee House of Representatives, Debra Maggart never imagined that her political career would end this way.

Maggart, who chaired the Republican caucus, killed an NRA-backed bill that would have permitted Tennesseans to keep firearms in their parked vehicles wherever they went — work, school or the neighborhood bar.

Months later, Maggart was stunned to see NRA-sponsored ads on billboards in her district. Her face was next to a picture of President Obama. The ads proclaimed: “Sure, Rep. Debra Maggart Says She Supports Your Gun Rights. Of Course, He Says the Same Thing.”

The NRA threw its support behind a newcomer in the Republican primary. By summer’s end, the woman who had been one of Tennessee’s most powerful Republicans and ardent supporters of gun rights was done in by hardball tactics.

“As a pro-Second Amendment person and a life member of the NRA, I was just shocked they did this to me,” Maggart said in an interview. “They did this to send a message: ‘If you don’t do what we want, we will annihilate you.’ ”

The message has not been lost on lawmakers across the nation, including those in the U.S. Senate

Much More:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/nra-tactics-take-no-prisoners/2013/05/18/4e48aad8-ace6-11e2-a198-99893f10d6dd_story.html

[jmdrake]

The only thing that's amazing about this story is that she thought she was a gun advocate.

[Origanalist]

I guess she will have to find employment doing something besides deciding when and where people have the right to bear arms. (sniffle)

[erowe1]

Shame. Why is a bill like that so important to the NRA?

[Warlord]

Page 3 there's more whining from her:

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Debra Maggart has been around firearms all her life. Her family owned Carter Hardware in Nashville, which sold rifles, shotguns and handguns. She got her hunter’s license, joined a local gun club and went to the Tennessee House in 2004 as a pro-gun lawmaker.

“You can’t get more pro-Second Amendment than me,” she said.

Last year, Maggart said, the NRA drafted a bill to permit concealed weapons to be kept in locked vehicles no matter where they were parked. She said business and property owners objected, arguing that they could be liable for gunfire on their properties. Maggart tabled the bill in April 2012.

In early July, she started to receive frantic phone calls from her friends.

See How the National Rifle Association retaliated when a Tennessee Republican blocked a gun bill.

“Have you seen the billboards?” they asked.

“I went out and looked, and I couldn’t believe it,” she said. “The billboards said I was just like Obama, and where I’m from, that’s deadly.”

The billboard ads were followed by radio spots, newspaper ads and fliers mailed to homes in her district: “Maggart and Obama: We Can’t Trust Either With Our Rights.”

On YouTube, Chris Cox, chief of lobbying for the NRA, went after Maggart.

“We’ve put up ads and billboards comparing Debra Maggart to Barack Obama,” Cox said. “That’s because, while both say they support our Second Amendment rights, they both worked against our freedoms behind closed doors.”

Maggart estimated that the NRA and other gun groups spent $155,000 on the race. She said all she could do was watch her polling numbers fall. She ended up losing the Republican primary by 16 percentage points to a candidate handpicked by the NRA, Courtney Rogers, a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel who had no political experience.

“They will lie about you. They will use intimidation tactics. They will use bullying tactics, and because of that, people are afraid,” Maggart said.

[JK/SEA]

shall not be infringed.

[jmdrake]

Last year, Maggart said, the NRA drafted a bill to permit concealed weapons to be kept in locked vehicles no matter where they were parked. She said business and property owners objected, arguing that they could be liable for gunfire on their properties. Maggart tabled the bill in April 2012.


Anyone stupid enough to believe ^that deserves to be kicked out of office. Seriously, how is a gun locked i a vehicle going to hurt anyone? And how would a business owner be liable for what someone else has in his/her trunk that the business owner doesn't even know about? If anything, this would have reduced liability because the business owners could have honestly said that they had not even the [b]possibility[b] of keeping guns totally off their property. People bring guns on private property all the time.

[erowe1]

Look people, you do not have a right to tell me that I can't prohibit guns on my own property. My doing that doesn't infringe any of your rights, since being on my property in the first place is not your right.

[Origanalist]

shall not be infringed.

It seems simple enough, right?

[JK/SEA]

Look people, you do not have a right to tell me that I can't prohibit guns on my own property. My doing that doesn't infringe any of your rights, since being on my property in the first place is not your right.

so when friends come over do you search their cars?

get real.

[jmdrake]

Look people, you do not have a right to tell me that I can't prohibit guns on my own property. My doing that doesn't infringe any of your rights, since being on my property in the first place is not your right.

You don't understand the bill in question.

http://www.wbir.com/news/article/259858/2/TN-governor-signs-guns-in-trunks-bill
Tennessee's "guns-in-trunks" bill removes criminal penalties for carrying a firearm in a car onto private property without the owner's permission, but it left open the legal question of whether an employer could fire someone for bringing a gun to work. Business groups largely acquiesced to the measure, and the NRA endorsed it, though some gun rights advocates complained it did not go far enough.

Sure you have a right to keep me off your property for any reason. But you shouldn't be able to have me thrown in a rape cage just because I inadvertently left a gun in my trunk. Did you miss the story of the honor student/eagle scout that is (was?) facing felony chargers after he accidentally left his shotgun in his car after skeet shooting and school officials overheard him ask his mom permission to leave school to take it home? He was trying to do the right thing and ended up in trouble for no reason.

[erowe1]

You don't understand the bill in question.

http://www.wbir.com/news/article/259858/2/TN-governor-signs-guns-in-trunks-bill
Tennessee's "guns-in-trunks" bill removes criminal penalties for carrying a firearm in a car onto private property without the owner's permission, but it left open the legal question of whether an employer could fire someone for bringing a gun to work. Business groups largely acquiesced to the measure, and the NRA endorsed it, though some gun rights advocates complained it did not go far enough.

Sure you have a right to keep me off your property for any reason. But you shouldn't be able to have me thrown in a rape cage just because I inadvertently left a gun in my trunk. Did you miss the story of the honor student/eagle scout that is (was?) facing felony chargers after he accidentally left his shotgun in his car after skeet shooting and school officials overheard him ask his mom permission to leave school to take it home? He was trying to do the right thing and ended up in trouble for no reason.

Thanks. That makes a difference.

[angelatc]

I wish we had this kind of power.

[Keith and stuff]

On that issue, she is correct. The 2nd Amendment only applies on government property. It doesn't apply on private property. If a property owner doesn't want guns on property, thy cannot be there. His is another example of the usually pretty good NRA pushing a anti liberty, pro big government agenda designed to eliminate rights.

Last session, NH was going to pass Vermont Carry type bill but the NEA kept trying to make it into a big government, anti liberty bill. For example, the NRA wanted to limit open carry to only adults. We wouldn't stand for that and the NRA reused to back own. They only supported eliminating gun rights in NH. Of course children have a inalienable right to carry guns and I'm proud that NH still recognizes that on like pretty much every other state.

[erowe1]

On that issue, she is correct. The 2nd Amendment only applies on government property. It doesn't apply on private property. If a property owner doesn't want guns on property, thy cannot be there. His is another example of the usually pretty good NRA pushing a anti liberty, pro big government agenda designed to eliminate rights.

Last session, NH was going to pass Vermont Carry type bill but the NEA kept trying to make it into a big government, anti liberty bill. For example, the NRA wanted to limit open carry to only adults. We wouldn't stand for that and the NRA reused to back own. They only supported eliminating gun rights in NH. Of course children have a inalienable right to carry guns and I'm proud that NH still recognizes that on like pretty much every other state.

But see post 11.

If my employer tells me I can't have a gun in my car in their parking lot, then, if I decide to do it anyway, then the property owner can do whatever's in their own authority to stop me or kick me out. I assume they could even call the police to help them if I don't leave, at which point I would be trespassing. They just don't get extra state teeth merely because there's a gun involved.

[Warlord]

I wish we had this kind of power.

We just dont have the resources although I'd say if we can combine the efforts of CFL, FreedomWorks, Club4growth, DP, RPF, etc. that would be pretty strong muscle to produce grassroots activity and decent resources if they decided to concentrate them on one particular race.

[sluggo]

The only thing that's amazing about this story is that she thought she was a gun advocate.

Makes you wonder how she got an A+ in the first place.

They must've been grading on a curve.

[Athan]

Shame. Why is a bill like that so important to the NRA?

I suspect because it gives citizens more freedom.

[Athan]

double post

[Aratus]

if she was NRA when Charlton Heston ran things...
if she remembered his "bright eyes" scenes in the flic
PLANET OF THE APES, she'd have voted cautiously...

[Aratus]

I wish we had this kind of power.

we could, if we all became ideologues, if we got us some fat~cat money behind us
as we all demand that good folks like doctor rand paul, justin amash & thomas massie
do exactly as we want. instead we are not astroturf and some of us are 100% dedicated
libertarians but not libertines & others of us are sincere civil libertarians who toy with
the idea of joining the ACLU but hold back because they are often complete wusses!

[Aratus]

did the NRA "break" her into lil pieces
just to prove to the world they are a lobby
without equal? I kinda feel sorry for her.

[amy31416]

Page 3 there's more whining from her:

-
Debra Maggart has been around firearms all her life. Her family owned Carter Hardware in Nashville, which sold rifles, shotguns and handguns. She got her hunter’s license, joined a local gun club and went to the Tennessee House in 2004 as a pro-gun lawmaker.

“You can’t get more pro-Second Amendment than me,” she said.


I bet she'd claim to have lots of black friends if it was the NAACP who came after her.

[Christian Liberty]

Look people, you do not have a right to tell me that I can't prohibit guns on my own property. My doing that doesn't infringe any of your rights, since being on my property in the first place is not your right.


so when friends come over do you search their cars?

get real.

I seriously doubt he'd want to do that, but he should be allowed to.


You don't understand the bill in question.

http://www.wbir.com/news/article/259858/2/TN-governor-signs-guns-in-trunks-bill
Tennessee's "guns-in-trunks" bill removes criminal penalties for carrying a firearm in a car onto private property without the owner's permission, but it left open the legal question of whether an employer could fire someone for bringing a gun to work. Business groups largely acquiesced to the measure, and the NRA endorsed it, though some gun rights advocates complained it did not go far enough.

Sure you have a right to keep me off your property for any reason. But you shouldn't be able to have me thrown in a rape cage just because I inadvertently left a gun in my trunk. Did you miss the story of the honor student/eagle scout that is (was?) facing felony chargers after he accidentally left his shotgun in his car after skeet shooting and school officials overheard him ask his mom permission to leave school to take it home? He was trying to do the right thing and ended up in trouble for no reason.

Public property rights aren't legitimate, and government schools have no right to have a "Gun free zone." Even if it was a private school, the penalty was draconian, but if a private school wanted to have a gun free zone, they should be allowed to be stupid.


Makes you wonder how she got an A+ in the first place.

They must've been grading on a curve.

RON PAUL didn't even get an A. NRA are statists.

[Aratus]

FreedomFanatic is very correct about Representative Ron Paul's letter grade that the NRA recently handed out.
even if you agree with 'em about 80% or 95% of the time, please keep in mind they are one damn big huge lobby.
she just found out that dancin' to their tune and then ethically dithering over a vote got her ejected from office.

[Matt Collins]

when was that article published?

[Cowlesy]

when was that article published?

5/18/2013.

[RonPaulMall]

On this particular case, the NRA was right, since the law in question made it a special state crime, rather than simply a breach of respect towards your host, to bring a gun on to a property where they say guns are not welcome. But note that the NRA also supports the opposite of this idea and has promoted bills that make it illegal for you to tell a worker they can't bring a gun on to your property. In this particular case, the NRA was on the side of liberty rather than tyranny, but lets not pretend that factored in to their thinking. They've already demonstrated they either don't understand or don't care about the liberty implications regarding the "right" of bringing guns to work.

[Aratus]

I feel she was presumably a reluctant turncoat & traitor to the NRA's party line

and they have now proved that they CAN completely punish one of their own.

I live in a state where public officials have voting records that are not like hers!

[qh4dotcom]

On that issue, she is correct. The 2nd Amendment only applies on government property. It doesn't apply on private property. If a property owner doesn't want guns on property, thy cannot be there. His is another example of the usually pretty good NRA pushing a anti liberty, pro big government agenda designed to eliminate rights.

You forgot you can't bring a gun on govt property like a court, airport, many federal buildings, etc.

[Aratus]

the flap over the downloading of the digital specs for a plastic zip gun suggests that even a very real toy gun gets you arrested

[brushfire]

There... 1 down. Who's next?

[Warlord]

There... 1 down. Who's next?

This is a case study I think!

I'm surprised Matt Collins hasn't provided us with more information on how this transpired. Removing TN lawmakers might not be so impossible after all.

I mean a few billboards and direct mail comparing her to Obama seemed to do the trick.

Corker and Alexander regularly go on golf trips with Obama and are at the White House partying every few weeks.

I wonder if this was more widely known how it would play?

[erowe1]

This is a case study I think!

I'm surprised Matt Collins hasn't provided us with more information on how this transpired. Removing TN lawmakers might not be so impossible after all.

I mean a few billboards and direct mail comparing her to Obama seemed to do the trick.

Corker and Alexander regularly go on golf trips with Obama and are at the White House partying every few weeks.

I wonder if this was more widely known how it would play?

The audience you would need to reach for a US senator is maybe, what, 100 times as large as that for a state legislator.

[jmdrake]

Public property rights aren't legitimate, and government schools have no right to have a "Gun free zone." Even if it was a private school, the penalty was draconian, but if a private school wanted to have a gun free zone, they should be allowed to be stupid.


But of course. The issues are 1) What is the default position if nothing is explicitly said or posted and 2) what kind of sanctions should their be if someone brings a gun on property without permission.

[Root]

I'd love to see a similar billboard showing Chris Christie and Obama agreeing on 15 round magazine capacity limits here in New Jermany.

[Warlord]

I'd love to see a similar billboard showing Chris Christie and Obama agreeing on 15 round magazine capacity limits here in New Jermany.

That would probably help Christie. Seriously.

[Root]

That would probably help Christie. Seriously.
Sadly, I think you're correct.

[jj-]

so when friends come over do you search their cars?

He has a right to do it, it's his property.

[Warlord]

Sadly, I think you're correct.

If you're looking to annoy a NJ lawmaker give Menendez a call and ask him why he wants to fund and help Al Qeada in Syria :

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?414994-Sen-Bob-Corker-and-Bob-Menendez-to-arm-Osama-bin-Laden-Brigade

[SewrRatt]

No, people don't have a right to search their friends' cars if they come over. They have the right to require a search as a condition of the visit, and their friends have the right to tell them to fuck off and to find new friends.

[Christian Liberty]

No, people don't have a right to search their friends' cars if they come over. They have the right to require a search as a condition of the visit, and their friends have the right to tell them to fuck off and to find new friends.

Well yeah, the idiot friend would have to make the demand, and then the person could leave rather than consent to it.

But of course. The issues are 1) What is the default position if nothing is explicitly said or posted and 2) what kind of sanctions should their be if someone brings a gun on property without permission.

I think you'd have to actually communicate that you are restricting people's behavior on your property beyond the basics of the NAP which are applicable unless otherwise stated.

There are exceptions, though. If you're tresspassing with a gun, you can be assumed to be a threat in at least some situatuions.

As for the sanctions, prison time is clearly excessive. Some kind of fine paid to the property owner wouldn't be, if he did actually state "no guns" or had a sign or some such.

[Henry Rogue]

Well, at least she is a gracious loser. Making it clear that the people have spoken and all. I have no sympathy for career politicians. Maybe now she can try a real job and live among us.

[Origanalist]

I wish we had this kind of power.

Mitt Romney lost.

[cindy25]

A lesson we could all learn?


-
NRA tactics: Take no prisoners

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_404h/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2013/04/26/Investigative/Images/AP120712148952.jpg

As a lifetime member of the National Rifle Association with an “A+” rating for her voting record in the Tennessee House of Representatives, Debra Maggart never imagined that her political career would end this way.

Maggart, who chaired the Republican caucus, killed an NRA-backed bill that would have permitted Tennesseans to keep firearms in their parked vehicles wherever they went — work, school or the neighborhood bar.

Months later, Maggart was stunned to see NRA-sponsored ads on billboards in her district. Her face was next to a picture of President Obama. The ads proclaimed: “Sure, Rep. Debra Maggart Says She Supports Your Gun Rights. Of Course, He Says the Same Thing.”

The NRA threw its support behind a newcomer in the Republican primary. By summer’s end, the woman who had been one of Tennessee’s most powerful Republicans and ardent supporters of gun rights was done in by hardball tactics.

“As a pro-Second Amendment person and a life member of the NRA, I was just shocked they did this to me,” Maggart said in an interview. “They did this to send a message: ‘If you don’t do what we want, we will annihilate you.’ ”

The message has not been lost on lawmakers across the nation, including those in the U.S. Senate

Much More:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/nra-tactics-take-no-prisoners/2013/05/18/4e48aad8-ace6-11e2-a198-99893f10d6dd_story.html

a lesson for Grover Norquist. and all of us.

its time to use NRA tactics to take down supporters of the internet sales tax

[Origanalist]

a lesson for Grover Norquist. and all of us.

its time to use NRA tactics to take down supporters of the internet sales tax

Hear, hear! (or is that here, here?)