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View Full Version : Kokesh's march vs. FreedomWorks' march




Lucille
05-09-2013, 08:12 AM
Oh FFS, FreedomWorks.

Again The So-Called Libertarians Get It Wrong
hxxp://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=220539


Will the man with a pair of balls please step forward?


In response to libertarian activist Adam Kokesh's planned July 4 march in which the participants will supposedly be carrying loaded rifles—in blatant violation of D.C.'s tough gun laws—another activist says he's putting together a better, and more acceptable, event for the day before.

Austin Petersen, a video producer for the libertarian organization FreedomWorks, says that Kokesh's designs of crossing the Arlington Memorial Bridge ahead of a pack of gun-toting Second Amendment believers is a provocative discredit to the cause.

Provocative? You bet. So was refusing to sit in the back of the bus. So was insisting on being seated and served in a diner. So was marching down a street with a few hundred -- or thousand -- black people after being told "you're not welcome here."

All of which, incidentally, were "unlawful" acts -- despite those laws being blatantly unconstitutional.
[...]

So, on July 3, Petersen wants to head up a parade of libertarians and maybe their families hosting toy guns, like water pistols and Nerf blasters. The "Armed Toy Gun March on D.C." will follow the same route around the monuments and National Mall as Kokesh lays out for his march the day later, but the only "weapons" will be tiny water jets and foam darts.

Uh huh. This sends a message of disagreement with the blatantly unconstitutional DC gun laws?

Exactly how? Water guns and nerf pistols are neither constitutionally protected or prohibited, nor do they have anything to do with firearms. They're both toys where firearms are tools.

But like so many so-called "libertarians" (of which I've written on many) Petersen's plans fail the first test of logic -- that is, consistency that can be traced to the first principles expressed in The Declaration of Independence.

You might fit water guns and nerf pistols into "pursuit of happiness" through some bit of mental masturbation but you sure can't find a connection to life or liberty in either.


"If we want less war, we need to be less warlike ourselves," Petersen says. "The idea of libertarianism is personal responsibility. If you can't act responsibly, then you can't own a gun. We can still have fun and not be negative and confrontational."

Um, me thinks you need to do a bit more reading before trying to tell people what libertarian and personal responsibility entails.

Specifically your personal responsibility to stop someone, should you so choose, who intends to initiate force against you for the purpose of depriving you of your life.

Exactly how do you intend to discharge that personal responsibility with a water pistol?

Then there's this piece of idiocy:


"Are you going to act like Martin Luther King or are you going to act like Malcolm X?" Petersen says, noting that Kokesh's website is filled with references to the former, along with other peace advocates like Mahatma Ghandi. "Who got more done? I'm challenging the libertarian movement. If you really believe in the principles of Dr. King, come to this event and live out his principles, because he was the one who advocated nonviolence just like libertarians do."

Ok, Peterson has just outed himself as historically ignorant along with not believing in personal responsibility.

Malcolm X advocated violence. Kokesh has not, to the best of my knowlege.

But more to the point Martin Luther King was arrested some 30-odd times for protests that had no official permission and in fact he led marches, expressing his First Amendment Rights, knowing full well that the government had banned his proposed activity in advance exactly as the DC Police have informed Kokesh!

More than once MLK was beaten and otherwise abused while in jail too.

There is nothing "warlike" about carrying a firearm. Your actions only become "warlike" when you unholster or shoulder said weapon for the purpose of initiating force.

Up until that point your keeping and bearing of arms are in fact the epitome of peace, in that the very fact that you are armed and everyone knows it serves as a strong deterrent against any criminal element who might otherwise choose to initiate force against you, whether said criminals are individuals or part of some organization.

The entire point of the Second Amendment is that so long as it remains as written the odds of it ever needing to be used for the purpose it was inserted into the Constitution remain vanishingly small.

The Second Amendment is, in fact, is the guarantee of civil peace.

Write off one jackass named "Petersen."

AuH20
05-09-2013, 08:16 AM
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
― Samuel Adams

NewRightLibertarian
05-09-2013, 08:53 AM
Petersen just doesn't want to hear any criticisms from his peers when he's at D.C. cocktail parties. He's probably the worst when it comes to being a beltway-approved libertarian.

compromise
05-09-2013, 08:53 AM
Water pistols and nerf guns...in public...in Washington DC? Looks like Petersen's gonna get arrested too.

kathy88
05-09-2013, 09:18 AM
Pussy.

ninepointfive
05-09-2013, 09:24 AM
Wheat, meet chaff.

http://www.colourbox.com/preview/3269089-487550-separating-the-wheat-from-the-chaff.jpg

tangent4ronpaul
05-09-2013, 09:25 AM
Water pistols and nerf guns...in public...in Washington DC? Looks like Petersen's gonna get arrested too.

Only if they have that thing that goes up...

-t

ClydeCoulter
05-09-2013, 09:36 AM
So, how will these people protect themselves should a provocateur cause problems and there is a shoot out? Pew-pew...

paulbot24
05-09-2013, 09:40 AM
So, how will these people protect themselves should a provocateur cause problems and there is a shoot out? Pew-pew...

The media would probably say they should have brought muskets.

bolil
05-09-2013, 09:43 AM
Wow, he would have a hard time on these forums yet he is a 'leading libertarian'?

strange days are here again.

ninepointfive
05-09-2013, 09:46 AM
Wow, he would have a hard time on these forums yet he is a 'leading libertarian'?

strange days are here again.

Adam Kokesh is a member of the forums, but posters here ran him out with too much disrespect - just like they have ran out Gary Franchi, Trevor Lyman... probably a few more.


I'd like to say there is a conspiracy - that there are people here on the forums to cause dissent and counter anything productive that may come about from it - but you never know.

July
05-09-2013, 10:04 AM
Water pistols and nerf guns...in public...in Washington DC? Looks like Petersen's gonna get arrested too.

Ha, that's exactly what I was thinking too... seems like everyday now I wake up to news articles about some kid getting suspended for pointing their fingers, or people being harassed for toy guns, etc. Actually, I kind of like the idea of a nerf/toy gun parade for that reason. Though I know that's not why he says they are doing it.

shane77m
05-09-2013, 10:17 AM
Adam Kokesh is a member of the forums, but posters here ran him out with too much disrespect - just like they have ran out Gary Franchi, Trevor Lyman... probably a few more.


I'd like to say there is a conspiracy - that there are people here on the forums to cause dissent and counter anything productive that may come about from it - but you never know.

Yes but AK is a plant, DHS, Code Pink commie, controlled opposition, provocateur, liberal, faschist, or whatever......./s

More power to him. I have been hearing people say for years that the same thing or something like it should be done but now that it is happening I hear stuff like now is not the time, he's crazy, they are going to take our guns (even though they are already trying to take them), it's against the law, and etc.

69360
05-09-2013, 10:25 AM
Guess Coulter was right for once. Libertarians are pussies. Water guns and nerf guns? :rolleyes:

Kokesh's idea was stupid, this idea is just lame.

Do we really want to be laughed at?

ninepointfive
05-09-2013, 10:26 AM
Yes but AK is a plant, DHS, Code Pink commie, controlled opposition, provocateur, liberal, faschist, or whatever......./s

More power to him. I have been hearing people say for years that the same thing or something like it should be done but now that it is happening I hear stuff like now is not the time, he's crazy, they are going to take our guns (even though they are already trying to take them), it's against the law, and etc.


the distrust among members is one of the greatest downfalls - of course we all know there really are spooks, but those spooks must know this is one of their best used "tools of the trade".

Some of the best activists get taken down by their own. Then again, as evidenced by Matt Collins, and Jack Hunter, Jesse Benton - those people have very publicly sought to destroy others as well, so maybe we really can blame this kindof thing on infighting.

ninepointfive
05-09-2013, 10:27 AM
Guess Coulter was right for once. Libertarians are pussies. Water guns and nerf guns? :rolleyes:

Kokesh's idea was stupid, this idea is just lame.

Do we really want to be laughed at?


live on your feet or die on your knees. I know what you'll be doing.

Anti Federalist
05-09-2013, 10:38 AM
With friends like these...

jbauer
05-09-2013, 10:38 AM
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
― Samuel Adams

Terrorist!!!

erowe1
05-09-2013, 10:41 AM
The way they describe the thing Petersen is planning, it doesn't seem like something anybody would want to participate in. Either it's not going to end up happening, or, if it does, it won't end up being anything like what they describe.

dannno
05-09-2013, 11:04 AM
Friends like these, huh Gary?

That's right, dude.

mczerone
05-09-2013, 11:15 AM
I think that comedy/satire/play has a very important place in securing liberty - but this is just childish. It's not mocking the govt, it's not standing up for rights, it's not controversial (and therefore worth media coverage), and it's blatantly submissive.

It directly mocks only Kokesh's event, and, through action, accepts that the govt should be obeyed, however tyrannical the law.

The only way this "toy gun" march would be meaningful would be as a future reenactment of the historic day that a group of free men walked into DC and showed America, indeed, the world, that they don't have to listen to unjust authorities anymore.

cajuncocoa
05-09-2013, 11:16 AM
Water guns and nerf guns? :rolleyes:

What? No bitten-into-gun-shaped pop tarts?

Where is the courage? Whatever happened to "home of the brave"?!?

ninepointfive
05-09-2013, 11:20 AM
I think that comedy/satire/play has a very important place in securing liberty - but this is just childish. It's not mocking the govt, it's not standing up for rights, it's not controversial (and therefore worth media coverage), and it's blatantly submissive.

It directly mocks only Kokesh's event, and, through action, accepts that the govt should be obeyed, however tyrannical the law.

The only way this "toy gun" march would be meaningful would be as a future reenactment of the historic day that a group of free men walked into DC and showed America, indeed, the world, that they don't have to listen to unjust authorities anymore.

definetely agree this is subversive to Adam - but nonetheless this July 3rd march will actually bring more off-hand exposure for the event on the 4th. could be win-win after all.

torchbearer
05-09-2013, 11:28 AM
Adam Kokesh is a member of the forums, but posters here ran him out with too much disrespect - just like they have ran out Gary Franchi, Trevor Lyman... probably a few more.


I'd like to say there is a conspiracy - that there are people here on the forums to cause dissent and counter anything productive that may come about from it - but you never know.

you see the phenomenon in society at large. people love bringing people down.
the more renown they have, the more people want to take them down.
it usually happens with celebrities. and to me, appears to be driven by envy.

Czolgosz
05-09-2013, 11:47 AM
I support the philosophers and the fighters. Both are necessary.

mczerone
05-09-2013, 11:59 AM
I support the philosophers and the fighters. Both are necessary.

What category is Peterson in?

I've liked many things from him, but there are a few key issues where he backs down from actually advocating the pure form of his philosophy for pragmatic reasons. Socrates was a philosopher who held his beliefs even though he knew those around him would kill him. Peterson backs down from his beliefs the instance anyone says "well, it might hurt our profits if..." or "public opinion polls show that people don't agree...".

The contemporary philosophers of this movement put their lives, liberty, and sacred honor on the line to live their values. Anyone who doesn't is just a sheltered academic who's more worried about impressing their peers. Even though their philosophy tells them that their peers should be rebuked.

Stick to producing videos about how the minimum wage is harming the poor, Mr. Peterson. Your objections to Kokesh's march have been noted, and:


"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
― Samuel Adams

Matt Collins
05-09-2013, 12:37 PM
Petersen...He's probably the worst when it comes to being a beltway-approved libertarian.Judge Napolitano would probably disagree with you on that.

Anti Federalist
05-09-2013, 12:49 PM
What? No bitten-into-gun-shaped pop tarts?

Where is the courage? Whatever happened to "home of the brave"?!?

No finger guns?

No paper guns?

Lucille
05-09-2013, 12:50 PM
Guess Coulter was right for once. Libertarians are pussies. Water guns and nerf guns? :rolleyes:

Kokesh's idea was stupid, this idea is just lame.

Do we really want to be laughed at?

It is embarrassing. I wouldn't be caught dead at a toy gun march.

Aratus
05-09-2013, 12:55 PM
I might if all the guns are understood to be toys...

picture a total bogart fan passing out bars of soap

that are in a certain "high sierra" shape and have

shoe polish on them. or march with shampoo bottles.

the containers are also banned when you fly today.

Lucille
05-09-2013, 12:57 PM
^ Great point. Guns are not toys!

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
05-09-2013, 01:03 PM
The way they describe the thing Petersen is planning, it doesn't seem like something anybody would want to participate in. Either it's not going to end up happening, or, if it does, it won't end up being anything like what they describe.


The 200 people who show up will be mocked by MSM, while they completely ignore a more substantial Kokesh protest.

This is by design, of course.

angelatc
05-09-2013, 01:31 PM
Water pistols and nerf guns...in public...in Washington DC? Looks like Petersen's gonna get arrested too.


Woudn't that be funny!!!

Brian4Liberty
05-09-2013, 01:40 PM
What is the point of this "toy gun" march? Is this supposed to be in support of the Second Amendment? It sounds like a mockery of the Second Amendment.

Brian4Liberty
05-09-2013, 01:41 PM
Is this a FreedomWorks march, or just something that this individual threw out there?

FrankRep
05-09-2013, 01:50 PM
Is this a FreedomWorks march, or just something that this individual threw out there?

I haven't heard FreedomWorks mention anything about a gun march. Just that one author in the OP.

Lucille
05-09-2013, 02:00 PM
Is this a FreedomWorks march, or just something that this individual threw out there?


I haven't heard FreedomWorks mention anything about a gun march. Just that one author in the OP.

http://dcist.com/2013/05/libertarians_plan_another_gun-totin.php


So, on July 3, Petersen wants to head up a parade of libertarians and maybe their families hosting toy guns, like water pistols and Nerf blasters. The "Armed Toy Gun March on D.C. (https://www.facebook.com/events/279763965493827/)" will follow the same route around the monuments and National Mall as Kokesh lays out for his march the day later, but the only "weapons" will be tiny water jets and foam darts.
[...]
UPDATE, 6:21 p.m.: Metropolitan Police Department Chief Cathy Lanier confirms that a bunch of Second Amendment fans parading throughout D.C. with toy guns don't need to worry about being repelled at the midpoint of the Arlington Memorial Bridge. "No problem," she writes in an email.

That's a relief. Considering Adam Kokesh is now upping his Independence Day plans from the loaded-rifle march to a call for citywide lawbreaking, July 3 should be delightful.

WhistlinDave
05-09-2013, 02:03 PM
Now... I don't know what this says about me that my mind works like this sometimes, but...

If DC Police were to be so paranoid as to believe some of these super soakers might contain flammable liquids, and the marchers could be carrying cigarette lighters... Maybe there will an epic (tragic) show of tyranny on the 3rd, before Kokesh even marches.

And no one will ever plan another stupid toy gun protest ever again.

Aratus
05-09-2013, 02:04 PM
gatorade bottles and shampoo bottles got banned on planes after small box cutters did

ninepointfive
05-09-2013, 02:13 PM
What is the point of this "toy gun" march? Is this supposed to be in support of the Second Amendment? It sounds like a mockery of the Second Amendment.

It's a mockery of kokesh

Lucille
05-09-2013, 02:13 PM
I'm pretty sure I saw this first on Adam's twitter feed:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/935405_10151384773036260_624177467_n.jpg

Aratus
05-09-2013, 02:15 PM
we know kokesh knows why he is doing what he is doing.

both marches have an equal chance of a Chicago cop riot

busting loose like the one I saw on my b+w tv set in 1968.

Barrex
05-09-2013, 03:08 PM
The media would probably say they should have brought muskets.

Now that is (my:D) brilliant idea. THEY SHOULD BE BEARING MUSKETS (ARMS)!!! not modern rifles. Still illegal and would point out that indeed it is tyrannical. 3000 people bearing arms marching. Exactly same arms that were meant by "bearing arms". Anyone knows someone who could get Adam 3000 muskets? This would calm some of criticism and skepticism and would make point more ____ whatever is made with point when points need to be more pointy (sharp?).


I want to see excitement, awe and people with open mouth staring. I want to see people screaming at their screens YES YEEES YEEEEEEESSSS. I( want to see masses rising and joining this muisket march... I want to see multitudes marching to the big kettle drum...I want to see Alan Ford movie.


Make it so!