Two 7-Year-Olds Suspended For Pretending Pencils Were Guns

[green73]

SUFFOLK, Va. — Two Suffolk second graders have been suspended for making shooting noises while pointing pencils at each other.

Media outlets report the 7-year-old boys were suspended for two days for a violation of the Suffolk school system’s zero-tolerance policy on weapons. They were playing with one another in class Friday at Driver Elementary.

“When I asked him about it, he said, ‘Well I was being a Marine and the other guy was being a bad guy,’” said Paul Marshall, one of the boys’ fathers. “It’s as simple as that.”

Marshall, a former Marine, said he believes school officials overreacted.

But Suffolk Public Schools spokeswoman Bethanne Bradshaw said a pencil is considered a weapon when it’s pointed at someone in a threatening way and gun noises are made.

“Some children would consider it threatening, who are scared about shootings in schools or shootings in the community,” Bradshaw said. “Kids don’t think about ‘Cowboys and Indians’ anymore, they think about drive-by shootings and murders and everything they see on television news every day.”

Bradshaw said the policy has been in place for at least two decades. It also bans drawing a picture of a gun and pointing a finger in a threatening manner.

Marshall said his son has good grades and no history of being disruptive in class. On the suspension note, the teacher noted that the boy stopped when she told him to do so.

He said school administrators failed to use common sense.

“Enough is enough,” said Paul Marshall. “I see it as the tail is now wagging the dog.”

Bradshaw said the suspensions were effective Monday and Tuesday.

“It’s an effort to try to get kids not to bring any form of violence, even if it’s violent play, into the classroom,” Bradshaw said. “There has to be a consequence because it’s a rule. And it’s a rule that the principals go over.”

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/05/07/2-va-boys-suspended-for-using-pencils-as-guns/

[Anti Federalist]

Yah, look at all the socialization that those kooky homeschooled kids are missing out on.

[georgiaboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNuRKE-3Yw

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

“When I asked him about it, he said, ‘Well I was being a Marine and the other guy was being a bad guy,’” said Paul Marshall, one of the boys’ fathers. “It’s as simple as that.”

Marshall, a former Marine, said he believes school officials overreacted.


Ok, well, I bet the marine wannabe should be pardoned, and the other kid should be suspended.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

I'm so sick of these zero tolerance policies. I wrote an article on this recently. :mad:

[WM_in_MO]

When i swept floors at a high school me and a buddy would always have shootouts in the hallways (cause sweeping floors was so dull)

If I did it during school hours I'd bet they'd Dorner me.

[Christian Liberty]

Ok, well, I bet the marine wannabe should be pardoned, and the other kid should be suspended.

The marines are the bad guys, but I don't expect a seven year old to know that. I do expect the school system to know guns are not evil.

[cjm]

In Virginia? :(

[Philhelm]

The boys would have been in the clear if they had pretended that the pencils were penises.

[Aeroneous]

The marines are the bad guys

Poor generalization. Not all Marines are bad guys... in fact the majority are not.

[Christian Liberty]

Poor generalization. Not all Marines are bad guys... in fact the majority are not.

Maybe that came off as rude. I don't judge individual soldiers. After all, Ron Paul and Adam Kokesh both "served" in the military, and now they are actually serving the world in advocating liberty. If I met a Marine, I wouldn't be a jerk to him (Admittedly, if he said something about "Defending our freedoms" I'd probably have something to say about it, but if I got rude at that point... I'd blame myself for that.)

But "The US Marines" as an INSTITUTION are evil. Even if almost every marine is a good person who wants to defend his country, the bottom line is that "The Marines" as a group are not actually doing so. And in any wars the US has been involved in since World War II, our army has, institutionally, been the "Bad guys". (I do get that Afghanistan is somewhat up for debate, but I don't agree with that one either. I also get that World War II itself is somewhat up for debate as well. My position on WWII is complicated and I don't really feel like hashing it at out right here.) Even if almost every soldier had noble intentions (I have no doubt a lot of them did, I think "Almost all" is presumptuous, but even assuming its true) "The Army" as an institution is still around the world fighting against our freedom (And yes, I said "Against" deliberately.")

[jmdrake]

A pen is mightier than the sword? Seriously, this is beyond ridiculous. Boys acting like boys get suspended. Boys acting like girls get special bathroom privileges.

[ninepointfive]

A pen is mightier than the sword? Seriously, this is beyond ridiculous. Boys acting like boys get suspended. Boys acting like girls get special bathroom privileges.

sounds like a good motto for a t-shirt

[Aeroneous]

Maybe that came off as rude. I don't judge individual soldiers. After all, Ron Paul and Adam Kokesh both "served" in the military, and now they are actually serving the world in advocating liberty. If I met a Marine, I wouldn't be a jerk to him (Admittedly, if he said something about "Defending our freedoms" I'd probably have something to say about it, but if I got rude at that point... I'd blame myself for that.)

But "The US Marines" as an INSTITUTION are evil. Even if almost every marine is a good person who wants to defend his country, the bottom line is that "The Marines" as a group are not actually doing so. And in any wars the US has been involved in since World War II, our army has, institutionally, been the "Bad guys". (I do get that Afghanistan is somewhat up for debate, but I don't agree with that one either. I also get that World War II itself is somewhat up for debate as well. My position on WWII is complicated and I don't really feel like hashing it at out right here.) Even if almost every soldier had noble intentions (I have no doubt a lot of them did, I think "Almost all" is presumptuous, but even assuming its true) "The Army" as an institution is still around the world fighting against our freedom (And yes, I said "Against" deliberately.")

Well explained. I'm on board with this explanation, I just read "Marines" in your first comment as a reference to the actual Marines as opposed to the Marine Corps.

[libertygrl]

I'm so sick of these zero tolerance policies. I wrote an article on this recently. :mad:

I swear, the people in this country have completely lost their minds. It's all a collective now. No one can think for themselves anymore. Welcome to the hive.

http://fandomania.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/borg2.jpg

[Root]

I can't believe I'm the first one to suggest that we should ban pencils in public schools.;)

[Christian Liberty]

Well explained. I'm on board with this explanation, I just read "Marines" in your first comment as a reference to the actual Marines as opposed to the Marine Corps.

Yeah, I didn't mean to say every single soldier was bad. I seriously doubt every orc was evil in LOTR either, but as a group they were still "The bad guys";)


I swear, the people in this country have completely lost their minds. It's all a collective now. No one can think for themselves anymore. Welcome to the hive.

http://fandomania.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/borg2.jpg

That's how I feel sometimes. Then again, my 14 year old brother recently commented about public schools "I think they just want everyone to think the same." Granted, he's not a libertarian, or even a perfect constitutionist, but he at least knows how to think. Not EVERYONE is part of the collective...

[Expatriate]

I can't believe I'm the first one to suggest that we should ban pencils in public schools.;)

Too late I beat you to it - last week :p

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?413249-Chicago-Teacher-Suspended-for-Bringing-Tools-to-School

[Expatriate]

“Some children would consider it threatening, who are scared about shootings in schools or shootings in the community,” Bradshaw said. “Kids don’t think about ‘Cowboys and Indians’ anymore, they think about drive-by shootings and murders and everything they see on television news every day.”

So the media fear-mongering has become so effective that children now need to be protected from their own thoughts?

[moostraks]

Too late I beat you to it - last week :p

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?413249-Chicago-Teacher-Suspended-for-Bringing-Tools-to-School

Was thinking of your post when I read this...:p Our resident psychic!

[moostraks]

So the media fear-mongering has become so effective that children now need to be protected from their own thoughts?

And as I read that I wondered how on earth they are going to tackle all the phobias that children have equally. You know since it is all about being fair ya know.

[Athan]

Yah, look at all the socialization that those kooky homeschooled kids are missing out on.

MY SIDES ARE IN ORBIT! ROTFLMAO!

[ds21089]

Have they banned water guns yet?

[SkepticalMetal]

Those kids should be thankful they were suspended. Any prisoner would love to be sent away from prison.

[qh4dotcom]

I'm so sick of these zero tolerance policies. I wrote an article on this recently. :mad:

I wish folks would have zero tolerance at the ballot box for corrupt politicians

[VoluntaryAmerican]

My 2cents:

h ttp://www.nj.com/south-jersey-voices/index.ssf/2013/03/op-ed_schools_miss_mark_with_c.html

[jmdrake]

I can't believe I'm the first one to suggest that we should ban pencils in public schools.;)

Well they'll eventually be going to iPads. ;)

[The Free Hornet]

At what point ought students be taught not to answer questions of the teachers/administrators?

Oh well, at least prosecutions of pretend shootings are relatively rare.


But Suffolk Public Schools spokeswoman Bethanne Bradshaw said a pencil is considered a weapon when it’s pointed at someone in a threatening way and gun noises are made.

...

“It’s an effort to try to get kids not to bring any form of violence, even if it’s violent play, into the classroom,” Bradshaw said. “There has to be a consequence because it’s a rule. And it’s a rule that the principals go over.”

Regardless, one teaching pointing her finger - at a child, like a weapon! - and making high-pitched banshee noises ought to destroy Bradshaw's legal theories regarding the rules.

[Root]

Well they'll eventually be going to iPads. ;)
i agree. I use my iPad for night classes and using a downloaded textbook on here is just as good as using paper.

[RockEnds]

If only the administrators in that school were able to distinguish their own *** from a hole in the ground, they might have an easier time recognizing the difference between a threat and child's play.

[TheTexan]

Fear & Control

[Anti Federalist]

At what point ought students be taught not to answer questions of the teachers/administrators?

Oh well, at least prosecutions of pretend shootings are relatively rare.

At ALL points.

You should exercise your right to remain silent when confronted by ANY government functionary.

They ALL have the power to ruin your life.

[Anti Federalist]

If only the administrators in that school were able to distinguish their own *** from a hole in the ground, they might have an easier time recognizing the difference between a threat and child's play.

They know.

It's not a question of being an idiot.

It's about following the rules, about being in compliance, at all times, without question.

[Anti Federalist]

Bradshaw said the policy has been in place for at least two decades. It also bans drawing a picture of a gun and pointing a finger in a threatening manner.

Policy was followed.

The school "officers" were in compliance.

End of story, as far as they are concerned.

[Anti Federalist]

And that, posted above, is the nightmare.

[KrokHead]

Reminds me of the South Park Episode "Little Crime Stoppers" when they 'finger guns' to stop crimes.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s07e06-lil-crime-stoppers

[RockEnds]

They know.

It's not a question of being an idiot.

It's about following the rules, about being in compliance, at all times, without question.

I'm not sure they do. I used to give them credit for not being stupid, but I've backpeddaled on that a bit. I agree that their agenda is compliance, and that they are informed and willing participants in that agenda. But I also think some of them have had the common sense schooled right out of them just as they're trying to school the common sense out of the kids. If the order came down from the higher ups that 2 + 2 = 5, some of them would not only enforce it, they would actually believe it.

[DamianTV]

Is anyone dumb enough to honestly believe that what they teach in Math Class is fucking MATH?

The 7-Lesson Schoolteacher
http://www.worldtrans.org/whole/schoolteacher.txt

...

"What big ideas are important to little kids? Well, the biggest
idea I think they need is that what they are learning isn't
idiosyncratic -- that this is some system to it all and it's not just
raining down on them as they helplessly absorb. That's the task, to
understand, to make coherent."

Kathy has it wrong. The first lesson I teach is confusion.
Everything I teach is out of context... I teach the unrelating of
everything. I teach disconnections. I teach too much: the orbiting of
planets, the law of large numbers, slavery, adjectives, architectural
drawing, dance, gymnasium, choral singing, assemblies, surprise guests,
fire drills, computer languages, parent's nights, staff-development
days, pull-out programs, guidance with strangers you may never see
again, standardized tests, age-segregation unlike anything seen in the
outside world... what do any of these things have to do with each
other?

...

[Anti Federalist]

If the order came down from the higher ups that 2 + 2 = 5, some of them would not only enforce it, they would actually believe it.

That is a large part of being "in compliance".

It is not enough to enforce the policy, you must believe the policy.

Whatever mental gymnastics need to be engaged in to make that so....

[I<3Liberty]

...and I got yelled at for building a teepee out of sticks during recess. :rolleyes: My best friend got time out for pretending she was Harry Potter while doing a "magic spell" with a stick. (This was like 10 years ago when I was in elementary school.) I'm honestly never shocked when I read these articles. Kids got yelled at and punished for the dumbest things. According to this article, it hasn't changed. o_O

[paulbot24]

My State education was typical, and I turned out okay. I learned 2 + 2 = 5 and got by. I don't see what the problem is. We're still at war with Eastasia right?:D

[DamianTV]

...and I got yelled at for building a teepee out of sticks during recess. :rolleyes: My best friend got time out for pretending she was Harry Potter while doing a "magic spell" with a stick. (This was like 10 years ago when I was in elementary school.) I'm honestly never shocked when I read these articles. Kids got yelled at and punished for the dumbest things. According to this article, it hasn't changed. o_O

Witchcraft I take it?

[fr33]

Is there any hope for this generation? It seems to me that they are being fully conquered. The things we did as kids are all illegal now.

[bolil]

My State education was typical, and I turned out okay. I learned 2 + 2 = 5 and got by. I don't see what the problem is. We're still at war with Eastasia right?:D

No, we've always been at peace with eastasia. It is Eurasia we've always been at war with...

[bolil]

My State education was typical, and I turned out okay. I learned 2 + 2 = 5 and got by. I don't see what the problem is. We're still at war with Eastasia right?:D

No, we've always been at peace with eastasia. It is Eurasia we've always been at war with...