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Origanalist
05-02-2013, 08:58 PM
Does this mean we who want to can leave now?

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Let’s face it—on nearly every important issue, from gun control to immigration to gay marriage, red states are holding America back. Lee Siegel on why the South should get the hell out of the union.

Let’s not be fooled by all the bipartisan rhetoric that has been streaming out of the GOP since Romney’s self-destruction. Hundreds of thousands of petitioners in a handful of red states still want to secede? Well, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2013/04/30/memo-to-the-south-go-ahead-secede-already/_jcr_content/body/inlineimage.img.503.jpg/1367295699007.cached.jpg


A solid block of Southern states continues to refuse to expand Medicaid, thus squashing one of the linchpins of the president’s health-care reform. The South will likely be the last and most stubborn battleground in the fight for gay marriage. Gun control? The more the two sides seem to get cozier with each other, the faster gun-control legislation gets watered down—and more and more red states are passing laws making it legal to carry a concealed weapon. As for immigration, the red states seem to be relaxing their anti-immigrant fervor, but nothing approaching new legislation is even on the horizon.


The sad truth is that “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” can only be achieved at this point if the nation is split in half. Far from being fanciful or fanatical, the proponents of secession have a stronger grasp of political reality than just about anyone else. In fact, there are serious reasons why the North itself should take the lead in a secessionist movement.


Just think what America would look like without its mostly Southern states. (We could retain “America”: they could call themselves “Smith & Wesson” or “Coca-Cola” or something like that.) Universal health care. No guns. Strong unions. A humane minimum wage. A humane immigration policy. High revenues from a fair tax structure. A massive public-works program. Legal gay marriage. A ban on carbon emissions. Electric cars. Stronger workplace protections. Extended family leave from work in case of pregnancy or illness. Longer unemployment benefits. In short, a society on a par with most of the rest of the industrialized world—a place whose politics have finally caught up with its social and economic realities.


But I don’t want to appear blindly partisan—a sundering of the union would make the other half of America equally fulfilled. The red-state republic could finally establish a theocracy in which the fundamentalist Christian church would legislate all the important aspects of civic life. It could either send its illegal and/or legal immigrants northward or reinstitute a reformed system of indenture whereby immigrants are purchased by bona fide citizens who have a fully modernized respect for private property. It could, taking the lead from the pioneering Kansas legislature, abolish the income tax, raising revenue from, for example, a “pay to work” program. It could ban abortion in all instances, including rape and incest, and use the growing population of orphans to establish an impressive standing army.


Fuck Kansas, and fuck the horse it rode (into the Union) on.


The red-state nation, giddy with new mobility, could make the 1958 Chevy its official car, and use the cutting-edge resources of cable television and the Internet to broadcast postwar situation comedies 24 hours a day. It could arm all of its citizens, and thus relieve itself of the financial burden of maintaining law-enforcement agencies. And without any type of regulation, it could finally compete with similarly unhampered societies all over the world. Without the FDA, a new red-state republic could use refined transfats to develop ever tastier delicacies, perhaps energizing its economy by instituting a toxic-food-for-toxic-toys program with China.


Bitter sarcasm aside, both regions of the country would, in a word, have conferred on them the fundamental freedoms they each believe the other side is denying them.


Instead, we are stuck living in an America whose politics hang suspended somewhere in the 1850s, when the almost symmetrical divide in the country kept one half of it mired in a barbaric system of slavery—itself rooted in ancient customs and conventions—and the other half moving quickly, along scientific and technological lines, into the modern era. Almost 150 years after the end of the Civil War, when it comes to basic issues and fundamental values, America is still split right down the middle.


***


Liberal pundits, especially, refuse to see this, perhaps because their livelihood depends on their ability to cheer readers and viewers through the deepening gloom with ever brighter optimistic prognostication. Nonetheless, the country is still as neatly divided as quinoa pilaf with mushrooms on one side and roasted pork belly on the other, and will continue to be. The presidency will swing one way and Congress—then, or two years later—will swing another. No matter the current state of the Republican Party, the iron law of “throw the bums out” will kick in, and the outsiders will once again have the White House. And still nothing will have changed.


It boggles the mind that, even as I write this, the so-called sequester, imposed by law in lieu of a balanced budget, has kicked in and is about to cause misery for millions of the most vulnerable Americans on both sides of the divide. Other countries suffer strife or war or anarchy or real economic terrors. We, on the other hand, the most prosperous and most powerful nation on the face of the earth, squabble like young newlyweds over how to pay the household bills.


The conventional, almost formulaic description of this political psychosis is that the Democrats and Republicans cannot “agree” on a solution, which they would be able to do if only the two sides would act rationally and “listen to” each other. The fact that they cannot “negotiate” results in a “stalemate,” which summons to mind the happy delusion of a demanding chess match at the end of which the two competing parties can at least take solace in a game beautifully and intelligently played. Or we hear on Fox that the Democrats are ideologically blind and fanatical in their pursuit of a totalitarian government. Or we hear on MSNBC that the Republicans are ideologically blind and fanatical in their pursuit of a Darwinian dystopia.




The. Country. Is. Split. Right. Down. The. Middle. May I, with the subtlety of cannonballs falling upon Fort Sumter, suggest that we stop using the anodyne categories of red and blue, and start calling the two sides “Confederate” and “Union,” which is what they really are?



The association of North with modernity and South with regression is so prominent, so visible, so all-encompassing that its familiarity has made it invisible. Here are the facts—with important exceptions in every category. The great research universities are in the blue states. So are the great medical schools, the great hospitals, and the great law schools. The great art and history museums are in the blue part of the country.


The most important popular and “high” art is produced by blue people, in blue places. Even the best comedians—with the exception of Stephen Colbert—are, you might say, from free as opposed to slave states.


By contrast, the South leads in all the negative trends. The South has the highest infant mortality rate. It has the most traffic deaths. It leads the country in gun deaths. It has the greatest number of obese people. It has the highest rate of diabetes. It has the largest number of people dying from stroke—a broad swath of the southeastern United States is known as the “stroke belt.” The South has the highest rates of cognitive decline.


Interestingly, though the South is home to the major tobacco companies and to carcinogenic Coca-Cola, the highest incidence of many types of cancer happens to be in the North. Which just proves that the stress of living alongside the Confederacy is now seriously affecting our health.


And the country’s great, recent Southern presidents? Jimmy Carter did more damage to the liberal agenda, which had been heroically advanced by that arch-fiend Richard Nixon, than any other modern president. In 1993, Arkansan Bill Clinton proposed a budget nearly devoid of social investment and almost identical to Reagan’s years earlier. Even when they find themselves in the vanguard of mainstream American politics, Southern politicians heed their atavistic instincts—and their gift for nimble expedience—and turn, like flowers straining toward the setting sun, back to the 19th century.


As for the great numbers of enlightened men and women in the South, let me cut through all the nuances of history and polemic and invite them all to flee northward. To paraphrase Swift, I am opposed to the Southern tribe as a voting, obstructing, retarding whole, but not to the countless individuals who make up the tribe, some of whom of course are exemplars of decency, humanity, wit, sophistication, and charm. Let them come north, and enrich us with their grace and charm. (And maybe if CNN moved their headquarters to New York or Philadelphia or Boston, the network could save its plummeting ratings simply by changing its employees’ diets.)


***


I used to take sharp issue with the argument, advanced by Tom Frank, that red-state citizens are rubes deceived into voting against their own material interests by wily Republican elites. My feeling was that people who lead a hardscrabble existence, like so many in the South, don’t define their lives in economic terms since the economy has failed them, and always will. Instead, they set the spiritual wealth of their cultural values—God and country—against the liberal domination of national culture; against liberal elites who are every bit as rich as their Republican counterparts but who seem to have no sympathy for the ordinary lives of the hard-pressed who abide by a different system of values.


By this point, I could care less about such people. All I know is that they stand opposed to every social and economic arrangement that would make an increasingly harsh and exponentially more complicated America more bearable for those with little or no material resources. I don’t really care what the matter is with the so-called average American. My attitude now is somewhat less cerebral. Fuck Kansas, and fuck the horse it rode (into the Union) on.


Perhaps my newfound sense of explicit disgust with America’s backside is why I cannot join in the ongoing celebration of Abraham Lincoln that seems to have seized the country since Obama’s first election. Never mind the perhaps 1 million lives that Lincoln destroyed for the sake of preserving the Union—not for the sake of abolishing slavery, which was Lincoln’s sacred pretext. Slavery was an abomination and it had to be wiped out. But how many slaves would have been destroyed, spiritually or physically, by the time the South fell if it had been allowed to secede? Would it have been 1 million? Who has the audacity to compare agonies?


These days I sometimes fall into a counter-historical revelry in which Lincoln allowed the South to remove itself from the Union. Within months, hundreds of Underground Railroads would have sprung up, slowly draining the South of its shackled manpower. The thriving Northern economy, galvanized by technological advances, would have made it possible to boycott Southern goods that could then have been bought from other countries. Northern economic and political might would have purchased important foreign alliances, which could have been used to isolate the South. In maybe 10 years, with the help of Northern and foreign arms, Southern blacks would have overthrown a feeble, decaying government run mostly by alcoholics lost in a haze of deluded grandeur.




Who knows? By the 1870s, we might have had a black republic; by the 1880s, the first free and equal pair of interracial countries; by 1890, cool jazz. On the eve of the Second World War, the pact between the North American nation and the Southern American nation might have established such a powerful and enlightened pair of biracial republics that Nazi and Japanese theories of racial superiority would never have gotten off the ground.



Or not.


But it hardly matters what might have been. What exists now is unworkable, untenable, and damn near unendurable. We are living in a permanently forked land. If you’re reading this website, you’re most likely one of “us.” And what “we” often write about, with scathing exasperation, is the retrograde stubbornness of “them.” Just as the German playwright Gustav Freitag famously reduced all drama to a single five-act structure, all of “our” political writing can be reduced to a few themes or tropes. We are for high taxes. They are for no taxes. We are for prohibiting, in various degrees, the private ownership of guns. They are for the universal ownership of guns. We are for choice on abortion. They are against it. We are for stem-cell research. They are against it. We are for universal health care paid for by taxes. They are for excluding government from health care (except when it comes to Medicare). We are for legal immigration in generous numbers. They are for a small trickle of legal immigration. We are for a multi-racial, multi-ethnic, materialist, rationalist, secular society in which gay people marry and raise adopted children, and women more often than not rule a roost that has two electric cars in every garage and a small bottle of morning-after pills in every purse. How about them?


Let us, along with the secessionists, get real. Maybe, by turning our unacknowledged, absolute division into a recognized aggression—by liberating the two irreconcilable halves of the country into two frankly contending rivals—just maybe, we can, at last, play ball.


Little Czechoslovakia split itself in two; why can’t we?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/30/memo-to-the-south-go-ahead-secede-already.html

TheTexan
05-02-2013, 09:07 PM
Sounds good to me

Anti Federalist
05-02-2013, 09:09 PM
For Fuck's Sake, YES!

supermario21
05-02-2013, 09:12 PM
Funny the article took a dig at car manufacturers, using the example of an 1858 Chevy. Last time I checked, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota/Lexus, and Volkswagen ALL have their plants in the south!!

Anti Federalist
05-02-2013, 09:16 PM
Funny the article took a dig at car manufacturers, using the example of an 1858 Chevy. Last time I checked, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota/Lexus, and Volkswagen ALL have their plants in the south!!

Quiet, you, don't tip them off...they are almost ready to leave.

Origanalist
05-02-2013, 09:19 PM
Funny the article took a dig at car manufacturers, using the example of an 1858 Chevy. Last time I checked, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota/Lexus, and Volkswagen ALL have their plants in the south!!

Yes, they do. Apparently foreign manufacturers just want to make money. Shocking.

Anti Federalist
05-02-2013, 09:21 PM
Just one stipulation...when the wheels fall off your collectivist, progressive experiment, NO COMING BACK!

Fuck you, no Masshole migration, no Californication, you understand?

Go someplace else and fuck it up for everybody, you are not welcome back.

Professor8000
05-02-2013, 09:24 PM
I still believe that Texas would do better on its own. I could see myself settling for a confederation of sorts.

Origanalist
05-02-2013, 09:26 PM
Just one stipulation...when the wheels fall off your collectivist, progressive experiment, NO COMING BACK!

Fuck you, no Masshole migration, no Californication, you understand?

Go someplace else and fuck it up for everybody, you are not welcome back.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Anti Federalist
05-02-2013, 09:38 PM
Yes! Yes! Yes!

Oh, I forgot, no New Jersey "Half - Backs" either.

That's the big problem with the author's premise.

Everybody that can, are leaving the places he thinks are the best thing since sliced bread, and moving where?

Red State USA...mostly, with side trips to Northern New England to fuck us up, in NH, ME and VT as well.

Origanalist
05-02-2013, 09:40 PM
Oh, I forgot, no New Jersey "Half - Backs" either.

Lol, forgot about them.....

shane77m
05-02-2013, 09:44 PM
We got some nice beaches down here. Some good hunting and some good fishing.

We also have the Free State of Winston.
http://www.freestateofwinston.org/

Origanalist
05-02-2013, 09:45 PM
We got some nice beaches down here. Some good hunting and some good fishing.

Y'all have some weird bugs too.

aGameOfThrones
05-02-2013, 09:46 PM
Just one stipulation...when the wheels fall off your collectivist, progressive experiment, NO COMING BACK!

Fuck you, no Masshole migration, no Californication, you understand?

Go someplace else and fuck it up for everybody, you are not welcome back.


They'll come back *cough cough* war of northern aggression 2.0

shane77m
05-02-2013, 09:48 PM
We also have this:
http://www.jackdaniels.com/verify-age

supermario21
05-02-2013, 09:50 PM
In the spirit of the thread...

http://lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo243.html



"Secession is a deeply American principle. This country was born through secession."

~ Ron Paul

Leftists and neocons in the media who tend to agree on the propriety and desirability of an ever-growing welfare/warfare/police state were predictably apoplectic when Ron Paul recently stated on his House Web site that secession is "a deeply American principle." Congressman Paul was alluding to the fact that all fifty states have sent secession petitions to the White House.


Typical of the media response was a snotty remark by one Robert Schlesinger, the son of Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., who is the "managing editor of opinion" of the soon-to-go-out-of-business U.S. News. Ron Paul is "deeply wrong," he moaned, calling the congressman a "crank" and predicting that he "will soon be forgotten." Robert Schlesinger’s bad manners are matched by his utter ignorance of American history.

Ron Paul was most certainly correct when he said that America "was born through secession." The Revolutionary War was a war of secession from the British empire. As Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence, our Declaration of Secession from the British Empire, governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, and whenever that consent is withdrawn, it is the right and duty of the people to "alter or abolish" that government and "to institute a new government."


How else could one possibly interpret the following passage from the Declaration but a declaration of secession or separation from Great Britain?: "That these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, FREE and INDEPENDENT STATES; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British crown and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved . . ." (emphasis in original).

In his first inaugural address Jefferson advocated attempts at persuasion, as opposed to a Lincolnian waging of total war of terrorism on American citizens who sought disunion: "If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this Union . . . let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left to combat it." In a January 29, 1804 letter to a Dr. Joseph Priestly, who had inquired about the prospect of the New England Federalists seceding from the union, as they were plotting to do at the time, Jefferson said: "Whether we remain in one confederacy, or form into Atlantic and Mississippi confederacies, I believe not very important to the happiness of either part. Those of the western confederacy will be as much our children and descendants as those of the eastern . . . " If there was a separation in the future, Jefferson continued, "I should feel the duty & the desire to promote the western interests as zealously as the eastern,, doing all the good for both portions of our future family which should fall within my power."


In an August 12, 1803 letter to John C. Breckenridge Jefferson addressed the issue of New England secession by saying that if they seceded, "God bless them both, & keep them in the union if it be for their good, but separate them, if it be better." On June 20, 1816, Jefferson wrote to a Mr. W. Crawford that "If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation . . . to a continuance in the union," then "I have no hesitation in saying, ‘let us separate’" (The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, vol. 15, p. 27). Jefferson believed that the right of secession was absolutely necessary if America was to avoid tyrannical government. (And Robert Schlesinger hasn’t the foggiest idea of what he is talking about).


John Quincy Adams believed that if a state or states wanted to secede, then "a more perfect Union" could be formed "by dissolving that which could no longer bind . . ." (John Quincy Adams, The Jubilee of the Constitution, p. 66). In Democracy in America (p. 381) Alexis de Tocqueville observed that "The Union was formed by the voluntary agreement of the States; and in uniting together they have not forfeited their nationality . . . . If one of he states chooses to withdraw from the compact, it would be difficult to disprove its right of doing so, and the Federal Government would have no means of maintaining its claims directly either by force or right."

Jefferson’s great nemesis, Alexander Hamilton, defended the right of secession by saying that "To coerce the States [to remain in the Union] is one of the maddest projects that was ever devised" and thought of "a government that can only exist by the sword," with "Congress marching the troops of one State into the bosom of another" a moral abomination (Jonathan Elliot’s Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution, p. 232).


America’s second generation of secessionists were not the Southern Confederates but the New England Federalists who so loathed the idea of a Jefferson presidency that they plotted to secede for the next fourteen years. Their efforts culminated in the Hartford Secession Convention of 1814 (See James Banner, To the Hartford Convention: The Federalists and the Origins of Party Politics in Massachusetts). Much of the discussion of the New England secessionists is contained in Henry Adams, editor, Documents Relating to New-England Federalism. In it one learns that the leader of the New Enland Yankee secessionists was United States Senator Timothy Pickering, who had previously served as George Washington’s adjutant general and quartermaster during the Revolution, and later as secretary of state and secretary or war in the Washington administration.


In 1803 Pickering announced that with New England seceding from the union "I will rather anticipate a new confederacy, exempt from the corrupt and corrupting influence of the aristocratic Democrats of the South." United States Senator James Hillhouse agreed that "The Eastern States must and will dissolve the union and form a separate government." George Cabot, Elbridge Gerry, John Quincy Adams, Fisher Ames, Josiah Quincy, and Joseph Story, among others, voiced similar opinions in the first years of the nineteenth century.

Governor Roger Griswold of Connecticut proclaimed that because of the political clout of the Southern states, "there can be no safety [from political plunder] to the Northern States without a separation from the confederacy [a.k.a. the union]." Senator Pickering explained that secession was THE principle of the American Revolution when he said that "the principles of our Revolution point to the remedy – a separation. That this can be accomplished, and without spilling one drop of blood, I have little doubt." And he was right: President Jefferson considered New Englanders to be an integral part of the American family, and the last thing in the world he would have done was to launch an invasion of New England, bombing Boston, Providence, and Hartford and turning them into a smoldering ruin to "save the union."


The New England Federalists eventually decided in 1814 at the Hartford Secession Convention to remain in the union and work within the system. All during this fourteen year ordeal the predominant view of the New England Federalists as well as the Jeffersonian Democrats was that of course the American union was voluntary, and of course the states therefore have a right to secede without asking for or being given permission by anyone or by any other government.


The third significant American secession movement occurred in what in the nineteenth century were called "the middle states" – New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Maryland. In The Secession Movement in the Middle Atlantic States historian William C. Wright described how in the 1850s these states, which accounted for some 40 percent of the U.S. economy, had put together a powerful political movement in favor of forming a Central Confederacy as a separate country. On the eve of the War to Prevent Southern Independence leading opinion makers in these states advocated either allowing the Southern states to secede in peace; seceding and joining the Southern Confederacy; or seceding to form a separate nation comprised of the Middle Atlantic states.

Belief that the American union was voluntary and that it would be a war crime and a moral abomination for the federal government to force any state to remain in the union was strong throughout America on the eve of the war. Northern Editorials on Secession, edited by Howard C. Perkins, describes how the majority of Northern newspapers advocated peaceful secession of the Southern states in 1860-61. For example, the Bangor Daily Union editorialized on November 13, 1860 that "The Union depends for its continuance on the free consent and will of the sovereign people of each state, and when that consent and will is withdrawn on either part, their Union is gone." The New York Journal of Commerce condemned "the meddlesome spirit" of Northern "Yankees" who "seek to regulate and control people in other communities." The New York Tribune wrote on December 17, 1860 that "If tyranny and despotism justified the Revolution of 1776, then we do not see why it would not justify the secession of Five Millions of Southrons from the Federal Union in 1861." The Kenosha, Wisconsin Democrat editorialized on January 11, 1861 that "Secession is the very germ of liberty . . . the right of secession inheres to the people of every sovereign state."

Ron Paul could not have said it better.

Origanalist
05-02-2013, 09:50 PM
We also have this:
http://www.jackdaniels.com/verify-age

I prefer Jim Beam.

Origanalist
05-02-2013, 09:52 PM
In the spirit of the thread...

http://lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo243.html

+ rep

that never get's old.

shane77m
05-02-2013, 09:55 PM
A peaceful secession would be the way to go but I don't see it happening. Even if secession did happen there would still be bunches of statists to deal with in each new country along with the commies.

Anti Federalist
05-02-2013, 09:55 PM
Keep in mind, for me, it's not about North or South...once the cat is out of the bag, once the Berlin Wall falls, once the first state finds the gumption to do this, the whole shitting mess will fly apart in six months, maybe less.

The collapse of the USSR, on steroids.

Please, God, make it so...

Anti Federalist
05-02-2013, 09:57 PM
Governor Roger Griswold of Connecticut proclaimed that because of the political clout of the Southern states, "there can be no safety [from political plunder] to the Northern States without a separation from the confederacy [a.k.a. the union]." Senator Pickering explained that secession was THE principle of the American Revolution when he said that "the principles of our Revolution point to the remedy – a separation. That this can be accomplished, and without spilling one drop of blood, I have little doubt." And he was right: President Jefferson considered New Englanders to be an integral part of the American family, and the last thing in the world he would have done was to launch an invasion of New England, bombing Boston, Providence, and Hartford and turning them into a smoldering ruin to "save the union."

BuddyRey
05-02-2013, 09:58 PM
It would make my Carolina heart swell with joy and pride to see the south make another gambit toward independence.

And my sincere hope is that all the good, freedom-minded northerners (of whom I know there are many) will join us this time.

shane77m
05-02-2013, 10:03 PM
Y'all have some weird bugs too.

Got a bunch of chiggers on my junk one time. Was most unpleasant.

RonPaulMall
05-02-2013, 10:17 PM
A peaceful secession would be the way to go but I don't see it happening. Even if secession did happen there would still be bunches of statists to deal with in each new country along with the commies.

It would never happen because unlike the author of this article, the majority of liberals understand that for socialism to work, it needs to be instituted uniformly. If the Southern states left and the North were free to pursue the socialist paradise the author describes, there wouldn't be any businesses left in the North.

But if it were to happen, I wouldn't want a Central Government in the South. Let each of the states form their own country and allow cities within those countries to form Free Cities if they so desire. Essentially, what we need is a modern day Holy Roman Empire. And when this break up occurs, New Hampshire should be invited to join.

Anti Federalist
05-02-2013, 10:23 PM
And when this break up occurs, New Hampshire should be invited to join.

My secret dream:

Breakaway Quebec forms a natural "land barrier" between the Ottawa government and the Maritimes.

NH, VT and ME secede and form an "Atlantic Alliance" or what have you, with the Canadian Maritimes.

Joy.

Origanalist
05-02-2013, 10:26 PM
My secret dream:

Breakaway Quebec forms a natural "land barrier" between the Ottawa government and the Maritimes.

NH, VT and ME secede and form an "Atlantic Alliance" or what have you, with the Canadian Maritimes.

Joy.

Outta rep.

The Gold Standard
05-02-2013, 10:26 PM
As bad as it is now, flocking to the South while they elect President Santorum into office doesn't seem any better.

Origanalist
05-02-2013, 10:28 PM
As bad as it is now, flocking to the South while they elect President Santorum into office doesn't seem any better.

I think that's a little far fetched.

The Gold Standard
05-02-2013, 10:32 PM
I think that's a little far fetched.

Who do you think they are going to vote for? They love their war down there, and won't settle for anyone who isn't just as bloodthirsty.

fr33
05-02-2013, 10:41 PM
Man I love that article. It starts a very productive conversation.

My comment:

I'd ask that you please let it happen but I know that the politicians you hired are no different than Al Capone and would have me gunned down in a New York minute if I give them a chance.


So don't act like it's so simple. I can choose to secede or not comply or not pay my taxes but your hired thugs will either kill me or cage me.

Rudeman
05-02-2013, 10:43 PM
Why don't the liberals just move to Europe? Everything they want is already in place.

supermario21
05-02-2013, 10:45 PM
Rand and Ron convince us that fighting another war isn't in our national interest. After all, most of the big wig neocons are Northerners. We'd see Kristol et. all go back to their liberal roots.

ClydeCoulter
05-02-2013, 10:54 PM
What a strange set of countries it could be: Presidential Elections by County 2008
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Gastner_map_purple_byarea_bycounty.png

osan
05-02-2013, 10:55 PM
What a hopelessly stupid article, written by an apparently hopelessly stupid man, if "man" can be said to apply.

Or am I missing something?

Origanalist
05-02-2013, 10:56 PM
Who do you think they are going to vote for? They love their war down there, and won't settle for anyone who isn't just as bloodthirsty.

I suggest you look a little deeper.

http://lsrebellion.blogspot.com/
http://thebonnieblueblog.blogspot.com/
http://conservativetimes.org/

http://www.confederategray.blogspot.com/What We Are and Are Not

If you are looking for race hate, look elsewhere. This blog is about the Confederate States of America, Confederate descendants, American history and American politics. Everyone who cares about these subjects is welcome here.

We love the Southern Confederacy because it was the nation of our ancestors and is our nation by inheritance. We love the South and the Confederacy for reasons of patriotism, self-identity, reverence for ancestors, and family ties. Likewise, we love the Confederate flag and the song "Dixie" and other icons of Southern heritage for the valor, bravery and family ties that they represent. We do not cherish these icons for any but honorable reasons. We will vigorously defend Southern heritage and history from those who denigrate it.




However, our goal extends beyond defense of past history -- we will also work hard for a new birth of American liberty and prosperity, even if that can only be achieved by a new secession of the states
----------------

If you think these folks would vote for Santorum, you need to think again.

supermario21
05-02-2013, 11:01 PM
Let's face it, secession would be a deceptive term. The left would essentially be reduced to a few city states and indian reservations.

fr33
05-02-2013, 11:03 PM
Let's face it, secession would be a deceptive term. The left would essentially be reduced to a few city states and indian reservations.

I wouldn't mind watching the thieves get their just results. They'd starve to death.

speciallyblend
05-02-2013, 11:44 PM
add the west to this list.

Intoxiklown
05-03-2013, 12:48 AM
Who do you think they are going to vote for? They love their war down there, and won't settle for anyone who isn't just as bloodthirsty.

We love our war down here?

You are sorely mistaken. You cure the media propoganda, and allow the true state of things to be reported, and you'd see people like Santorum shot on sight for trying to instigate war based on his lies. Many people in the south like Ron Paul. They just thought he was pushing a fool's dream, as they have a misconception as to the state of the world thanks to MSM, and the politicans who use that false perception to their advantage.

leverguy
05-03-2013, 05:03 AM
Just one stipulation...when the wheels fall off your collectivist, progressive experiment, NO COMING BACK!

Fuck you, no Masshole migration, no Californication, you understand?

Go someplace else and fuck it up for everybody, you are not welcome back.

Of course, when the wheels fly off it will still somehow be our fault.

(In a whiny, petulant, childlike voice) ...but they took most of the available arable land! Its not fair... They got all the manufacturing that we ran out of our states over the course of the last century! Its not fair... They won't share with us anymore. ITS NOT FAAAAAAIIIIIIIRRRRRR!!!!111!!!!1!eleventy!!111 And they're all raaaaacistsssssss!

alucard13mmfmj
05-03-2013, 05:10 AM
When their experiment fails it will be our fault :P

They might blame us for having most of the usable land or manufacturing base that they ran away :P

Demigod
05-03-2013, 05:46 AM
Why don't the liberals just move to Europe? Everything they want is already in place.

Yes because Americans who think they know it all are so popular in Europe.I can't think of a single country that would accept them.

alucard13mmfmj
05-03-2013, 05:49 AM
know it all Americans thnk they are popular in europe :P

osan
05-03-2013, 06:08 AM
My secret dream:

Breakaway Quebec forms a natural "land barrier" between the Ottawa government and the Maritimes.

NH, VT and ME secede and form an "Atlantic Alliance" or what have you, with the Canadian Maritimes.

Joy.

U.N. invades, razes the place, murders 2/3 of the population, posts "mission accomplished", repatriates the territories, pats self on back and goes home to masturbate with single-minded fury.

No soup for breakaway terrorists who believe in liberty.

osan
05-03-2013, 06:10 AM
Yes because Americans who think they know it all are so popular in Europe.I can't think of a single country that would accept them.

England's accepting every other cockroach on the planet. They are dumber than even American progressives. if such a thing can be believed.

gwax23
05-03-2013, 06:15 AM
The funny thing is if the South did leave and become as economically free as say Singapore or Hong Kong and then the economy takes off while the North falters they will start to blame the south.

If it happened it would be a great case study on the virtues of capitalism. We could see a prospering south while a collapsing North with refugees piling to get into Texas for example.

I would love to see this happen. Secession is the way to go.

Only problem is demographics are changin and things wouldnt be so clear cut with state lines.

What states go what states stay? Some of the Norther-southern states are turning into swing states or have gone completely blue already (Virginia, Missouri, North Carolina etc etc. You can also forget Maryland and Delaware) and then what about Florida? Only the Northern half? Whole Peninsula? Even in places like Texas the statist plague has taken hold in major cities and this is true in many areas of the south.

They are destroying the possibility of a clean peaceful succession with a demographic war.

tod evans
05-03-2013, 06:27 AM
Flood all the major cities first...;)



[edit]

Or just sit back and wait for 'em to burn...

Working Poor
05-03-2013, 06:34 AM
Quiet, you, don't tip them off...they are almost ready to leave.
lol...lol I hope so.

Demigod
05-03-2013, 06:35 AM
U.N. invades, razes the place, murders 2/3 of the population, posts "mission accomplished", repatriates the territories, pats self on back and goes home to masturbate with single-minded fury.

No soup for breakaway terrorists who believe in liberty.

I think you mean US invading because there is no such thing as a UN invading force.All the UN is used for is for blaming things on it when some government wants to do something that they know is highly unpopular so they can blame it on the UN for making them do it.

Not to mention that currently not a single nation except the USA could scramble a navy large enough to invade a country except the USA.

Anti Federalist
05-03-2013, 11:09 AM
U.N. invades, razes the place, murders 2/3 of the population, posts "mission accomplished", repatriates the territories, pats self on back and goes home to masturbate with single-minded fury.

No soup for breakaway terrorists who believe in liberty.

Killjoy....

jllundqu
05-03-2013, 11:22 AM
The funny thing is if the South did leave and become as economically free as say Singapore or Hong Kong and then the economy takes off while the North falters they will start to blame the south.

If it happened it would be a great case study on the virtues of capitalism. We could see a prospering south while a collapsing North with refugees piling to get into Texas for example.


When Texas turns blue, which it will within a few years, the jig is up. Game over. Pack up your tents. Good game. We tried.

Only problem is demographics are changin and things wouldnt be so clear cut with state lines.

What states go what states stay? Some of the Norther-southern states are turning into swing states or have gone completely blue already (Virginia, Missouri, North Carolina etc etc. You can also forget Maryland and Delaware) and then what about Florida? Only the Northern half? Whole Peninsula? Even in places like Texas the statist plague has taken hold in major cities and this is true in many areas of the south.

They are destroying the possibility of a clean peaceful succession with a demographic war.


If a place like freakin texas can turn blue. Our nation is truly fucked... like raw-dog-federal-prison-fucked.
I would love to see this happen. Secession is the way to go.

69360
05-03-2013, 11:31 AM
Oh, I forgot, no New Jersey "Half - Backs" either.

That's the big problem with the author's premise.

Everybody that can, are leaving the places he thinks are the best thing since sliced bread, and moving where?

Red State USA...mostly, with side trips to Northern New England to fuck us up, in NH, ME and VT as well.

Hmm I moved to ME. But I fit in fine and don't bother anyone.

If the south or TX really did secede I'd probably go there.

gwax23
05-03-2013, 12:59 PM
If a place like freakin texas can turn blue. Our nation is truly fucked... like raw-dog-federal-prison-fucked.
I would love to see this happen. Secession is the way to go.

Give it 2 more election cycles. Itll be blue. We are heading for a one party state the way things are going.

Anti Federalist
05-03-2013, 01:02 PM
Give it 2 more election cycles. Itll be blue. We are heading for a one party state the way things are going.

Used to be a solid blue state.

gwax23
05-03-2013, 01:39 PM
Used to be a solid blue state.

Different party then. There was just a switch. North Went Blue and south went Red. This time though another state wont go red to replace Texas going blue.

supermario21
05-03-2013, 01:47 PM
Missouri is solid red now, at least on a federal level. Also keep in mind if something as awesome as secession were to happen you'd probably see tons of liberals leave.

Christian Liberty
05-03-2013, 02:06 PM
It would make my Carolina heart swell with joy and pride to see the south make another gambit toward independence.

And my sincere hope is that all the good, freedom-minded northerners (of whom I know there are many) will join us this time.

I'll join you

Let's trade, New York can take Graham (They are, of course, free to indefinitely detain him without trial if they have the mind), the new libertarian republic gets me.


As bad as it is now, flocking to the South while they elect President Santorum into office doesn't seem any better.

Yeah, that's true...


Give it 2 more election cycles. Itll be blue. We are heading for a one party state the way things are going.

We're already a one party state. It just has two names.


Missouri is solid red now, at least on a federal level. Also keep in mind if something as awesome as secession were to happen you'd probably see tons of liberals leave.

True, but we'd still be stuck with the neo-progressives.

WM_in_MO
05-03-2013, 02:08 PM
Missouri is solid red now, at least on a federal level. Also keep in mind if something as awesome as secession were to happen you'd probably see tons of liberals leave.
We have plenty of neo-cons to throw out still.

Philhelm
05-03-2013, 02:10 PM
By this point, I could care less about such people.

In other words, he will turn a blind eye when the government of his choosing begins literally killing his political rivals.

Athan
05-03-2013, 02:17 PM
We shall call it 'Merica.
Fuck yeah!

(P.s.We will re-establish the Rio Grande Republic, a southern state under Texas' flag. Awww yisss.)

Cutlerzzz
05-03-2013, 02:45 PM
Does the South also get the Great Plains and Rocky Mountain states that overwhelmingly vote Republican?

jbauer
05-03-2013, 03:06 PM
Just one stipulation...when the wheels fall off your collectivist, progressive experiment, NO COMING BACK!

Fuck you, no Masshole migration, no Californication, you understand?

Go someplace else and fuck it up for everybody, you are not welcome back.

I grew up in the North and moved South. We continue to convince people to move to the South. Where do I sign on the dotted line. At first I thought this guy was just joking but he's dead serious....and so am I. We're (short of the Nat Gas) place gaining businesses. We're the only place keeping the constitution. We're the only place standing up to the socialists. The Northern states should thank us.

jbauer
05-03-2013, 04:02 PM
Oh, I forgot, no New Jersey "Half - Backs" either.

That's the big problem with the author's premise.

Everybody that can, are leaving the places he thinks are the best thing since sliced bread, and moving where?

Red State USA...mostly, with side trips to Northern New England to fuck us up, in NH, ME and VT as well.

All day every day. TN is inundated with Northern's

Brian Coulter
05-03-2013, 04:27 PM
All day every day. TN is inundated with Northern's

My father-n-law and I went to Tennessee several years ago touring the battlefields. The proprietor at a motel near Nashville asked us what was the difference between a Yankee and a Damn Yankee....the Yankees go home.

paulbot24
05-03-2013, 04:46 PM
When you think about the liberal statist strongholds, you almost wish that global warming was not just a crony lie. Almost. Texas's coastal areas would be fine since the water would fear them. New Yorkers get bailout money and endless sympathy when tropical storms strike them, the Texans don't bother to ask and just keep working on a gigantic freeze gun so they can eventually climb the frozen tidal waves and plant the Lone Star flag on top.

Southron
05-03-2013, 04:52 PM
Oh, I forgot, no New Jersey "Half - Backs" either.

That's the big problem with the author's premise.

Everybody that can, are leaving the places he thinks are the best thing since sliced bread, and moving where?

Red State USA...mostly, with side trips to Northern New England to fuck us up, in NH, ME and VT as well.

This is the problem. How can you maintain your new confederacies without keeping them away at the point of a gun? They would just invade "Free England" peaceably and reinstate Ameritopia.

In fact, I think the absolute worst migrants are those chasing prosperity but bring tyranny with them like a disease. They suck the host dry of any prosperity, and strangle what is left with big government. Then they escape to the next state, or county, or city looking for more ways to make wealth...

BamaAla
05-03-2013, 04:52 PM
Got a bunch of chiggers on my junk one time. Was most unpleasant.


Gotta be careful picking blackberries!

supermario21
05-03-2013, 04:53 PM
The Bonnie Blue flag would be a good one, as well.

WM_in_MO
05-03-2013, 05:26 PM
I'd like to bring all of Missouri and the southern part of Illinois with us

The Gold Standard
05-03-2013, 06:20 PM
Just let us have Wyoming or something. Then the Republican fascists can have the south and the Democrat communists can have the north. They will be at war with each other anyway, so we might as well get out of their way.

tod evans
05-03-2013, 07:15 PM
Gotta be careful picking blackberries!

They're in bloom in the Ozarks...:D