Made in America

[Natural Citizen]

Please try to support American Workers by buying products from the directory below. Click on a letter below to go to that category (example to find American Made Jeans click C for Clothes or J for Jeans.) If you know of a good American Made Product not on the list use the Submit Product Form (http://americansworking.com/productsubmit.html)for consideration of listing here.

http://americansworking.com/

Additionally there is a good list of sources for many products at the following links.

American Made Building Products (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/10/how-to-build-a-made-in-america-home/) – 120+ products from over 33 states

If every builder bought just 5% more American materials it could create 220,000 jobs right now. Of course, historically, it only takes 2% to actually cause change across the board with any given endeavor.

[paulbot24]

Excellent find.

[CaptUSA]

If every builder bought just 5% more American materials it could create 220,000 jobs right now. Of course, historically, it only takes 2% to actually cause change across the board with any given endeavor.Do we really need to discuss the economics of this???

[tod evans]

My wholesaler knows I don't purchase imported goods from Taiwan or China, I do however use Baltic birch plywood from Russia..

Some hardware from Germany and Italy too..

I source quality and if I can obtain quality from an American manufacturer I'll use 'em...

[Natural Citizen]

8 Foods That Are Cheaper To Grow Than To Buy (http://www.businessinsider.com/plants-that-will-save-you-money-2013-6#leafy-greens-1)

[phill4paul]

Thanks OP!. Went to buy some new hikers this afternoon and walked out when I couldn't find any American made. To the Boot catagory I would add Frye boots. Western style and made in America.

[Natural Citizen]

Thanks OP!. Went to buy some new hikers this afternoon and walked out when I couldn't find any American made. To the Boot catagory I would add Frye boots. Western style and made in America.


Yep. Add links to this stuff if you can.

I'm back into my jeans and boots meme now too. Is more comfortable to me. I like me some boots, for sure.

[Reason]

Please try to support American Workers by buying products from the directory below. Click on a letter below to go to that category (example to find American Made Jeans click C for Clothes or J for Jeans.) If you know of a good American Made Product not on the list use the Submit Product Form (http://americansworking.com/productsubmit.html)for consideration of listing here.

http://americansworking.com/

Additionally there is a good list of sources for many products at the following links. American Made Gift Ideas (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/MadeInAmerica/made-america-gift-ideas/story?id=15041794)
American Made Building Products (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/10/how-to-build-a-made-in-america-home/)

American Made Building Products (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/10/how-to-build-a-made-in-america-home/) – 120+ products from over 33 states

If every builder bought just 5% more American materials it could create 220,000 jobs right now. Of course, historically, it only takes 2% to actually cause change across the board with any given endeavor.

http://www.learnliberty.org/content/free-trade-v-protectionism

[2young2vote]

I've used that website several times in the past. I like it. Try to buy American whenever I can, but i realized it is next to impossible to buy casual shoes made in America anymore. The only company that even does it at all is New Balance.

[heavenlyboy34]

I've used that website several times in the past. I like it. Try to buy American whenever I can, but i realized it is next to impossible to buy casual shoes made in America anymore. The only company that even does it at all is New Balance.
Many US-based manufacturers actually build the elements of the products in the US (this is the norm rather than the exception in my experience). The parts are then shipped to China or wherever so the most basic parts of the process can be done more cheaply. I have a fender guitar that was made in Mexico, for example. Of course, if manufacturing and assembly wasn't so regulated and taxed in the US, more products would be assembled here. /end rant

[Natural Citizen]

American Made Gift Ideas (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/MadeInAmerica/made-america-gift-ideas/story?id=15041794)


Sports and Games:
Stryker Golf (http://www.strykergolf.com/)
Eagle Claw (http://www.eagleclaw.com/site/)
Nokona Baseball Gloves (http://www.nokona.com/)
Riedell Skates (http://www.riedellskates.com/)
J. Pechauer Custom Cues (http://pechauer.com/)
Wilson Footballs (http://www.wilson.com/en-us/football/)
Louisville Slugger (http://www.slugger.com/)
Fantasy Sports Trophies (http://www.iwonmyleague.com/default.asp)
Bears Playgrounds (http://bearsplaygrounds.com/)
Woodplay Playsets (http://www.swingsets.com/)
The Original Tree Swing (http://theoriginaltreeswing.com/)
Sean Ryon Saddles (http://seanryonsaddles.com/shop/)
M.L.Leddy's boots and saddles (http://www.leddys.com/)
Seeker Fishing Rods (http://www.seekerrods.com/)
Solid Sit-up (http://www.solidsitup.com/)
Bag Toss (http://www.bagtoss.com/)
Wingstopper Duck Calls (http://www.wingstopper.com/)
Alchemy Bicycle (http://www.alchemybicycles.com/)
Locker Magnets (http://lockernoise.com/)
Cannon Sports (http://www.cannonsports.com/)
Under Armour Sportswear (http://www.underarmour.com/)
Voile Split Boards (http://www.voile-usa.com/)
Coleman (http://www.coleman.com/coleman/home.asp)
GNU Snowboards (http://www.gnu.com/)
Weber Surfboard Shop (http://www.deweyweber.com/)
Good Feet (http://www.goodfeet.com/)
Future Beach Kayaks, Canoes and Pedal Boats (http://www.futurebeach.com/)
Murbles Outdoor Sports Game (http://murblegame.com/)
DeMarini Sports (http://www.demarini.com/demarini/index.jsp)
Victory Tailgate Cornhole Boards (https://www.victorytailgate.com/)
Zipfy Freestyle Mini Luge
(http://zipfy.com/)
Toys:
Green Toys (http://www.greentoys.com/index.html)
North Star Toys (http://www.northstartoys.com/)
Lark Toys (http://www.larktoys.com/store/template/index.php?CNC=0)
American Plastic Toys (http://www.americanplastictoys.com/products.htm)
Green Town Toys (http://www.greentowntoys.com/)
Little Tikes (http://www.littletikes.com/)
Slinky (http://www.poof-slinky.com/)
K'NEX (http://www.knex.com/About_KNEX/)
Dano2 (http://www.dano2.com/)
Handcrafted Wooden Trains (http://www.woodentrain.com/)
Pajaggle (http://www.pajaggle.com/)
Hartland Locomotive Works (http://www.h-l-w.com/newProducts.html)
Hank the Cowdog (http://www.hankthecowdog.com/)
Fat Brain Toys (http://www.fatbraintoys.com/)
Step 2 Toys (http://www.step2.com/)
Springbok Jigsaw Puzzles (http://www.springbok-puzzles.com/)
Tedco Toys (http://www.tedcotoys.com/)
I See Me Personalized Children's Books (http://www.iseeme.com/)
Pure Play Kids (http://www.pureplaykids.com/originals-exclusives/)
Walking Stick Toys (http://www.walkingsticktoys.com/)
WormWatcher (http://www.wormwatcher.com/)
Chelsea Teddy Bears (http://www.chelseateddybear.com/)
Hand Trucks R Us (http://www.handtrucksrus.com/)
Clothing and Accessories:
The Cat's Pajamas (http://www.thecatspjs.com/)
Zentek Clothing (http://www.zentekclothing.com/)
Sabaku Artwear (http://www.sabakuart.com/)
Rock Me! Baby Clothing (http://www.rockmeusa.com/site/)
All American Clothing Co. (http://www.allamericanclothing.com/)
L.L.Bean (http://www.llbean.com/)
Bamboosa (https://www.bamboosa.com/)
The Beach Depot Swimwear (http://www.thebeachdepot.com/)
Bayside Apparel (http://www.baysideapparel.com/)
Three Dots (http://www.threedots.com/clothing/factory.asp)
Andrew Christian (http://andrewchristian.com/)
High Cotton Ties (http://highcottonties.com/index.php)
Honey Girl Water Wear (http://www.honeygirlwaterwear.com/)
Geier Glove Co. (http://www.geierglove.com/products.html)
Color My Soul (http://www.colormysoul.com/)
INKnBURN (http://www.inknburn.com/)
Gnome Domes Children's Hats (http://gnomedomes.com/)
Montauk Tackle Company (http://www.montauktackle.com/)
WSI Clothing (http://wsisports.com/home)
Cut Loose Creations (http://www.cutloosecreations.com/)
boy+girl clothing (http://www.shopboyandgirl.com/)
Hanky Panky (http://www.hankypanky.com/)
Deva Lifewear (http://www.devalifewear.com/mm5/merchant.mvc)
Elizabeth's Handwoven Artwear (http://hand-woven.net/)
East Valley Apparel (http://eastvalley.myshopify.com/)
Zkano (http://www.zkano.com/)
Schaefer Ranchwear (http://www.schaefer-ranchwear.com/)
Lucky Brand (http://www.luckybrand.com/)
Orthodox Wedding Crowns (http://www.orthodoxweddingcrowns.com/)
Royden Leather (http://www.roydenleather.com/shopping/)
Sundance Sheepskin & Leather (http://www.sundanceleather.com/)
Brixton (http://www.brixton.com/)
Odina Swimwear (http://odinasurf.com/)
Round House (http://www.round-house.com/index.html)
Royal Apparel (https://www.royalapparel.net/rbcroyal/hcatalog.aspx?,1,,HomePage,0,,/)
TeaNRose (http://www.teanrose.com/)
Aero Stich (http://www.aerostich.com/)
Pendleton (http://www.pendleton-usa.com/home.jsp)
Avani Activewear (http://www.avaniclothing.com/)
Creative Worldwide (http://creativeworldwide.biz/)
LNA Clothing (http://www.lnaclothing.com/)
Positively Detroit T-shirts and Hoodies (http://positively-detroit.com/)
Okabashi (http://www.okabashi.com/)
Elizabeth Laine (http://www.elizabethlaine.com/Elizabeth_Laine/Home.html)
Chloe and Reese (http://www.chloeandreese.com/main.asp?)
Just Kidding Clothing (http://justkiddingclothing.com/JustShop.cfm)
Nelseena Leather Company (http://www.nelseenaleather.com/)
Victoria Leather USA (http://www.victorialeathercompany.com/)
XGO (http://www.xgotech.com/performance.htm)
Polarmax (http://www.polarmax.com/)
The Official State Polo (http://stoloinc.com/en/)
Shore (Surf-style Apparel) (http://www.shopshore.com/)
Ibex Outdoor Clothing Company (http://shop.ibex.com/)
Renie & Rose Apparel and Handbags (http://rennieandrose.com/)
Jack Robie Menswear (http://www.jackrobie.com/)
Hickey Freeman Suits (http://www.hickeyfreeman.com/)
Kitanica Outdoor Gear (http://www.kitanica.net/)
Johnny Cupcakes Tshirts (http://shop.johnnycupcakes.com/shop/)
Alex Maine Clothing (http://www.alexmaine.us/)
Hats in the Belfry (http://www.hatsinthebelfry.com/)
Northern Sun T-Shirts (http://www.northernsun.com/)
All American Clothing (http://www.allamericanclothing.com/)
Golden Fleece Fashions (http://www.goldenfleecefashions.com/)
Harrisville Yarn & Fleece Designs (http://www.harrisville.com/)
Goodnighties Recovery Sleepwear (http://www.goodnighties.com/)
Stormy Kromer Hats (http://www.stormykromer.com/)
Sterlingwear Coats< /a>
(http://www.sterlingwear.com/cart/)Bee Wee Shop (http://shop.beweeshop.com/?reload)
Archival Clothing (http://www.archivalclothing.com/)
All American Clothing
(http://www.allamericanclothing.com/)
Jeans:
True Religion Brand Jeans (http://www.truereligionbrandjeans.com/)
NYDJ Jeans (http://www.nydj.com/)
Round House Jeans (http://www.round-house.com/index.html)
Diamond Gusset Jeans (http://www.gussetjeans.com/made_in_usa/)
Grand River Jeans (http://www.grandriverclothing.com/grc/)
Not Your Daughter's Jeans (http://www.nydj.com/)
Jeans Gone Green (http://jeansgonegreen.com/)
Texas Jeans
(http://www.texasjeansusa.com/usa.html)
Shoes:
Dehner Boot Company (http://www.dehner.com/)
HUGGRZ Boot Wraps (http://www.huggrz.com/)
Rochester Shoe Tree Company (http://www.onecedarlane.com/)
Chippewa Boot Co. (http://www.chippewaboots.com/)
The Piper Sandal Company (http://www.pipersandals.com/)
New Balance (http://www.newbalance.com/)
SAS Shoemakers (http://sasshoes.com/index.php)
Okabashi Shoes (http://www.okabashi.com/)
New Balance (http://www.shopnewbalance.com/information/madeinusa.asp&S1=NBAS)
Aurora Shoes (http://www.aurorashoeco.com/)
Thorogood Footwear (http://www.thorogoodfootwear.com/)
Soft Star Shoes (http://www.softstarshoes.com/)
Red Wing Shoes (http://www.redwingsafety.com/index)
Russell Moccasin Co.
(http://www.russellmoccasin.com/)
Socks:
Darn Tough Vermont Socks (http://darntough.com/)
SockGuy (http://www.sockguy.com/)
Thorlos (http://www.thorlo.com/)
Fits Socks (http://fitssock.com/)
Solmate Socks (http://www.socklady.com/wholesale_faq.php)
Skater Socks (http://www.skatersocks.com/)
Wigwam Socks (http://www.wigwam.com/)
Sierra Club Socks (http://www.parkerlegwear.com/)
FoxSox (http://www.foxsox.com/defaultEcomm.aspx)
Kentwool Socks (http://kentwool.com/)
Solmate Socks (http://www.socklady.com/index.php)

Christmas Decorations and Ornaments:
Racetrack Style (http://www.racetrackstyle.com/index.html)
Wendell August (http://www.wendellaugust.com/)
Annalee Dolls (http://www.annalee.com/)
SPIbelt (http://store.spibelt.com/default.asp)
Byers' Choice Ltd. (http://www.byerschoice.com/)
Bronner's Christmas Store (http://www.bronners.com/)
Sturbridge Yankee Workshop (http://www.sturbridgeyankee.com/)

[helmuth_hubener]

I would rather support the hard working people of China, who have so little and do so much. American workers have plenty of money already.

[helmuth_hubener]

Plus, the American workers are communists, and I don't want to support communism.

[tod evans]

I would rather support the hard working people of China, who have so little and do so much. American workers have plenty of money already.

I'll pick up your slack.

I'll routinely put stuff carrying a China label back on the shelf and have made a conscious effort to boycott both China and Japan since the '70's.

[helmuth_hubener]

I'll pick up your slack.

I'll routinely put stuff carrying a China label back on the shelf and have made a conscious effort to boycott both China and Japan since the '70's.

Why do you love communism?

[helmuth_hubener]

Or is it that you hate downtrodden poor people just trying to make an honest buck?

[tod evans]

Why do you love communism?

Why do you "love" the Chinese?


Or is it that you hate downtrodden poor people just trying to make an honest buck?

I "hate downtrodden poor people just trying to make an honest buck" right here at home so I'll spend my money locally first, regionally second, nationally third, with the EU forth...etc.

No helmuth, I could give a shit about the Chinese.

[Rudeman]

Plus, the American workers are communists, and I don't want to support communism.

Because Chinese workers aren't communists?

[Southron]

I buy American every chance I can get-especially with tools. I've witnessed too many of the wonders of globalism already.

[Acala]

I buy the product that fits the need. I usually buy the best quality. That is often made in the USA, but not always. In any event, it is production that drives economic growth, not spending.

[fr33]

I wanted to buy a toyota tundra because they are built in Texas by non-union workers but unfortunately they are only 1/2 tons.

[Anti Federalist]

I approve of this thread.

[helmuth_hubener]

I buy the product that fits the need. I usually buy the best quality. That is often made in the USA, but not always. In any event, it is production that drives economic growth, not spending.What? If we just buy enough stuff, we will all be rich! But only if we buy locally. No buying from that other village of BAD people!

[CaptUSA]

Do we really need another lesson in comparative advantage?!! Here?!

Buy American if that gives you some satisfaction, but don't fool yourself into thinking you are necessarily helping the economy by doing so.

I usually use the premise that if a product is relatively interchangeable, I'll go with the cheapest (thereby saving my wealth for something else). But if it's something I want to last, I buy the best quality so that I don't have to purchase it again later. The country of origin really doesn't come into play. If you really care about increasing the wealth of this country, you would make wise value judgments at every point in order to maximize your value gain. By doing so, you have increased your wealth.

Of course, if the feeling you get from buying American gives you some false sense of satisfaction, that may be rewarding in and of itself, thereby making it a wise value judgment for you - however, that does little to benefit the aggregate wealth of the country.

[heavenlyboy34]

Do we really need another lesson in comparative advantage?!! Here?!

Buy American if that gives you some satisfaction, but don't fool yourself into thinking you are necessarily helping the economy by doing so.

I usually use the premise that if a product is relatively interchangeable, I'll go with the cheapest (thereby saving my wealth for something else). But if it's something I want to last, I buy the best quality so that I don't have to purchase it again later. The country of origin really doesn't come into play. If you really care about increasing the wealth of this country, you would make wise value judgments at every point in order to maximize your value gain. By doing so, you have increased your wealth.

Of course, if the feeling you get from buying American gives you some false sense of satisfaction, that may be rewarding in and of itself, thereby making it a wise value judgment for you - however, that does little to benefit the aggregate wealth of the country.
+rep

[Natural Citizen]

Do we really need another lesson in comparative advantage?!! Here?!

Buy American if that gives you some satisfaction, but don't fool yourself into thinking you are necessarily helping the economy by doing so.



So you're saying that if more people bought American then it wouldn't (at the least) create more employment?

Smoke another one. :rolleyes:

[Natural Citizen]

+rep

I should neg rep you for + repping spin.

[heavenlyboy34]

I should neg rep you for + repping spin.
What "spin"? He's correct.

[CaptUSA]

So you're saying that if more people bought American then it wouldn't (at the least) create more employment?

Smoke another one. :rolleyes:Not necessarily. This is Econ 101. It's simple, really. If each person had to spend more money in order to buy American, they would have less money to buy other things. That means that the economy would move slower.

Again, this is about value - not where the items originate. Please review comparative advantage and understand how both countries benefit. Or read Bastiat. It may be simpler. This is not spin - it's real economics. "Buy American" is spin. I'm not suggesting that people should not buy American, I'm suggesting that they get the most value for their dollar. That's what spurs economic growth.

[heavenlyboy34]

I can't believe people here are still falling for the old, disproven "Buy American" campaign.
http://mises.org/preview/6148/Buy-Team-America
Samuel Johnson once wrote that "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel," criticizing adverse policies and proposals falsely claimed to be based in patriotism. This has been most recently illustrated by the political furor over "made-in-China" Team USA uniforms. Many politicians asserted that it was un-American, with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid saying those uniforms should be burned. Supposedly patriotic pressures to mandate "buying American" sprang up immediately, and Ralph Lauren quickly capitulated, promising to "go and sin no more."While some of the details of this flap are unusual, protectionism dressed up as patriotism follows a well-worn script.
Imports are found to cause some domestic harm. Given that those imports harm competing domestic producers, "Buy American" or some other version of protectionism is put forth as the patriotic response (with the producers seeking protection from superior competitors leading the patriotism bandwagon). The Team USA version simply exploits the Olympics' peak in pro-American sentiment and symbolism to make the same case (though it makes no more sense than requiring that we grow our own coffee and bananas for our athletes).
The problem is that imports always harm competing domestic producers, so that the patriotism argument can always be used as political cover whenever any domestic producers get the government's ear. And there are always politicians ready to listen.
One person who recognized the abuses and illogic of this approach was Leonard Read. In particular, his chapter "Buy American," in Having My Way (1974) (http://mises.org/document/4011/Having-My-Way), lays out a better way to approach the issue.

The admonition to "Buy American" has two diametrically opposed meanings. The first is its popular and mischievous meaning — shun goods produced in foreign countries. The second, and loftier meaning embodied in these words, is rarely mentioned or thought of — shun principles and practices alien to the American dream of limited government and personal freedom.
Producers who plead with consumers to "Buy American" are appealing to blind patriotism. Buy my product because it is made here; heed not its price or quality. This is sheer chauvinism. Suppose I were to urge your acceptance of my ideas, rather than those of Marx or Machiavelli, merely because of our differing nationalities. The absurdity of such an appeal is obvious: neither goods nor ideas are properly judged in this fashion; geographical origin has nothing to do with the matter.
Read points out that that the traditional use of "Buy American" is to justify some citizens beggaring their own neighbors, rather than something that advances any sensible interpretation of our general welfare. However, there is an interpretation that does advance our general welfare. Don't buy (i.e., accept and make use of) actions that violate the American principle of freedom to choose your own productive associations, as long as you don't violate the common, inalienable rights of others.
Read recognizes that whether a principle is true or not has nothing to do with where it comes from (i.e., ad hominem or "against-the-man" attacks do nothing to invalidate something that is true, although you wouldn't know it from political rhetoric). As a result, he offers an excellent way to test whether some supposed general principle is valid — change "Buy USA" to "Buy Chinese" or "Buy Mexican," and ask if Americans would accept the proposition as true based on their patriotism. If it is really a general principle, it is as valid for others in their dealings with us as their potential suppliers as it is for us in dealing with them as our potential suppliers, and the answer would not change. We would support others' protectionism just as much as our own. But if it is really special pleading, rather than a general principle, people's answers would change, as when people hypocritically attack other countries for their protectionism at the same time we defend ours as principled.
Read also recognized that the extent of protectionism is far vaster than most people recognize.

All obstacles to competition, be they foreign or domestic, are but variants of this theme.
The difference between a ban on buying a foreign country's products and imposing tariffs, quotas, or any of a host of nontariff barriers is only one of degree. Whether it benefits or harms Americans does not change; only the degree of such benefit or harm. Similarly, change "Buy American" to "Buy Local," as with locavore campaigns in agriculture, and the logic is equally invalid.
Such protectionism goes well beyond international trade, as well.
Change the wording to "Buy Union," as with project labor agreements and prevailing (higher-than-competitive) wage laws, and the logic is the same. Union members are protected from the competition of other workers who would work for less. But that protection not only harms nonunion workers; it also harms customers, whose costs are increased.
Price controls are also protectionism. For example, a minimum wage protects other workers from competing with those who would be willing to work for less, but it harms both those denied their most productive employment and consumers.
The vast majority of antitrust cases are also forms of protectionism. They are not brought by consumers, who generally gain from the practices involved, but by outcompeted rivals who want to take away others' advantages — advantages passed on to customers. Those outcompeted rivals don't want potential customers to go elsewhere — and use antitrust to restrict consumers' ability to access superior options.
A vast array of licensing schemes follows the same pattern. They hide behind masks of quality or safety but primarily keep new competitors out and keep those who would offer lower-quality–lower-price options some customers would prefer from doing so.
Leonard Read offers a powerful solution, powerfully illustrated by America's own past.

Enough of this mischievous notion. Let us try instead to appreciate and "buy" the American ideal of freedom.
Ralph Waldo Emerson had this to say: "America is another name for opportunity. Our whole history appears like a last effort of divine Providence in behalf of the human race."
As to the best in political economy, consider the Constitution of the United States. Regardless of its several flaws, no other nation's charter has equaled it in an economic sense.
In what respect is this distinctively American? Here is the answer: "No state shall without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts on imports and exports … "
In a nutshell, no tariffs, quotas, embargoes between the several states…the world has never known a free trade area as large as the U.S.A. when measured in value of goods and services produced and exchanged. Never perfectly free, but the nearest approximation to freedom!
In other words, the freedom to associate for productive purposes however and with whomever one chooses, because people were protected from many of the violations of that principle that governments have imposed throughout history, was the essence of the American miracle. And at its heart, as Thomas Jefferson wrote, was "the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."
Further, Read's focus on America's free internal trade offers a counterpoint to a frequent misinterpretation. Those who defend protectionism as a valid principle claim that it was the protectionism adopted by the United States in the form of tariffs that advanced our staggering early economic success. While it is true that import tariffs were imposed, and eventually dramatically raised (see the history of the "Tariff of Abominations" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff_of_1828) as an example), that was not the source of our success any more than hurdles — which slow running speeds — should be given credit for increasing running speeds because hurdlers are fast. The reality is that the positive impact of our massive internal free-trade zone and other constitutional restrictions on government interference far outweighed the negative impact of international-trade restrictions.
Read then addresses one particular common defense of protectionism: the "infant-industry" argument that free trade may be good in general, but that industries must be protected until they can grow to a scale where they can compete, which amounts to a claim that the benefits of freedom require restricting the freedom that generates them.

In reality, it is competition which protects "infant industries" — it protects them from stagnation and persuades them to grow.
In the absence of competition and freedom of transactions, producers stagnate. It is only when others are doing better that one attempts to overcome, to gain strength. Competition, combined with free exchange, makes strong giants out of weak infants — this is the password to economic opportunity and well-being — an American idea well worth buying.
Read recognized that from the perspective of consumers it is the competition that takes place without artificial assistance or restriction that expands their options the most. It does not matter whether competition leads to a foreign producer who offers better terms because of superior efficiencies or if that producer is American. So there is no reason to artificially nurture American infant industries (which often claim to be infants virtually forever), because it is the results of real superiority that benefit consumers, and artificially tilting the playing field only inhibits the process that best discovers and passes on the gains of such superiority.
Read next turns to another test that rejects the logic of protectionism. If we accepted protectionism in principle, we would be for it in all cases. But, as he notes, we are all free traders when it benefits us. In other words, we recognize that we gain from free trade, except when we are the one benefitted by special treatment — necessarily at others' even greater costs — by those restrictions. We abandon our own revealed preference for freedom only when bribed by receiving some of what is essentially stolen from others.

Regardless of all the noisy arguments to the contrary, everyone known to me favors both competition and free trade. Name one who does not favor competition among those from whom he buys. Logically, then, how can one favor competition among millions of others and be against it for himself! This is irrationality, not disagreement.
Precisely the same can be said for free trade — domestic or foreign. Name one who would not welcome an order for his products from another country or county. Everyone favors exports. Imports? Favoring exports and objecting to imports is the same as favoring selling and objecting to being paid. This is an absurdity, not disagreement.

Leonard Read realized that the logic of protectionism is riddled with errors and that the practice of protectionism, in its myriad forms, is theft that impoverishes everyone except those bribed by the gains of their protected status and those whose political clout greases those transactions. It is a far cry from either liberty or justice for all. Read's conclusion:
What then is meant by "Buy American" in its proper sense? Let willing exchange prevail among all people, locally and worldwide. Let each buyer or seller be guided by his own scale of values. Sell the American way and buy the American way — not as presently practiced, but as once prevailed and ought to be reinstituted. Keep ours the land of opportunity for everyone.

[opal]

8 Foods That Are Cheaper To Grow Than To Buy (http://www.businessinsider.com/plants-that-will-save-you-money-2013-6#leafy-greens-1)

if you can actually get the food list from that link..please paste it in
I click the *see the list* link and nothing happens

and another shoe brand made here is Monro American

[Natural Citizen]

if you can actually get the food list from that link..please paste it in
I click the *see the list* link and nothing happens

and another shoe brand made here is Monro American

Sure. Give me a second. I think you may already know though just based off reading some of your stuff in the past.

[Natural Citizen]

if you can actually get the food list from that link..please paste it in
I click the *see the list* link and nothing happens

and another shoe brand made here is Monro American

Leafy Greens

Sure, you can buy lettuce in any grocery store, but if you want something a little more exotic than iceberg lettuce -- aka "the astroturf of greens" -- you're likely to pay quite a bit more.

Not surprisingly, premium greens, like cilantro, chard and arugula (http://www.fleamarketgardening.org/2013/03/18/grow-the-7-most-profitable-vegetables-in-your-garden/), are among the most profitable things you can grow: according to some estimates, they can save you up to $20 per square foot!

Tomatoes

If you like tomatoes, you're in luck -- they're incredibly profitable. The small and medium-sized varieties, which mature quickly and grow in considerable profusion, can save an estimated $16.50 for every square foot (http://www.freeshipping.org/blog/the-10-cheapest-veggies-to-grow/) you plant. Best of all, their flavor will leave your grocery store's sickly offerings in the dust.

Herbs

When it comes to saving money and making a big impact on your cooking, it's hard to beat herbs. Depending on the plant, they can save you up to $18 per square foot -- while supercharging the flavor of your cooking.

As an added bonus, many popular herbs, including sage, rosemary, thyme, and mint, are perennials, which means that your initial planting cost will pay you back with a rich harvest every year.

Peas

Peas, particularly snow peas, are among the more profitable things that you can grow in your garden. The bigger payoff, however, comes in terms of flavor: it's hard to beat the wonderful, sweet taste of raw peas, picked and eaten fresh in your garden.

For that matter, string beans -- a close relative of peas -- taste great raw, boiled (what do you want? I'm from the South!), steamed, or even pickled and served in a Bloody Mary.

Squash and Zucchini

Among backyard farmers, the incredible growth rate of squash and zucchini is a running joke:
a couple of plants, properly watered and maintained, will leave you with more food than you can (or want to) eat. Luckily, there are hundreds of tasty dishes that you can make with them.

Brussels Sprouts

Grandma always made a big deal about eating vegetables -- a tough sell when it comes to Brussels sprouts. To begin with, these things are weird: on the stalk, they look like a cross between an octopus and a cabbage.

And in terms of flavor, they can easily turn the corner from yummy to revolting (big hint: boiling them is not a great idea). On the other hand, they are very profitable and, when properly prepared, they can be amazing. Personally, I love this recipe, which uses Sriracha hot sauce, honey and lime juice to temper the cabbagy flavor of the sprouts.

Green Onions

If you've ever fought with wild onions, you already know how hardy members of the allium, or onion family, can be.

When it comes to growing your own green onions or scallions, that can be a blessing. To begin with, scallion bulbs take about a month to mature, which means that you can continue to refresh your garden throughout the summer. They're easy to use -- you can eat the onions raw, or can snip the leaves into dozens of foods. And, as an added bonus, they can save you about $4 for every square foot that you plant.


Cucumbers

It's hard to beat the clean, cool scent of a freshly sliced cucumber; unfortunately, though, many store-bought cukes fall down when it comes to flavor. Luckily, cucumbers are easy to grow, can be incredibly prolific, and are quite delicious when grown in your garden.

But if you grow cukes, be sure to do two things: first, remember to wash off the spines, as many varieties have little thorns that aren't too hard on the hand, but can really irritate your mouth. Second, don't waste them on pickles or a salad -- garden fresh cucumbers deserve to be shown off to their best effect, as in Greek tzatziki dip.

[fr33]

Please try to support American Workers by buying products from the directory below. Click on a letter below to go to that category (example to find American Made Jeans click C for Clothes or J for Jeans.) If you know of a good American Made Product not on the list use the Submit Product Form (http://americansworking.com/productsubmit.html)for consideration of listing here.

http://americansworking.com/

Additionally there is a good list of sources for many products at the following links.

American Made Building Products (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/10/how-to-build-a-made-in-america-home/) – 120+ products from over 33 states

If every builder bought just 5% more American materials it could create 220,000 jobs right now. Of course, historically, it only takes 2% to actually cause change across the board with any given endeavor.

It would be nice if those sites excluded companies that employ union workers and companies that receive corporate welfare from the Federal Government. Those with Unions and/or receiving bailouts are a bigger threat to the American economy than those who's products are made in foreign companies.

[fr33]

I wanted to buy a toyota tundra because they are built in Texas by non-union workers but unfortunately they are only 1/2 tons.

I ended up buying a Dodge Ram. I didn't want to but they are just so much more affordable and easier to work on. Probably should have bought a Ford since they didn't get a bailout but many of the repairs on new Fords require you to pull the whole cab off.

[Natural Citizen]

It would be nice if those sites excluded companies that employ union workers and companies that receive corporate welfare from the Federal Government. Those with Unions and/or receiving bailouts are a bigger threat to the American economy than those who's products are made in foreign companies.

Yep. I did see some of those in there.

[Natural Citizen]

I can't believe people here are still falling for the old, disproven "Buy American" campaign.


Mises misses the big picture. As politically driven people often do. The see what they want to see according to the model thay choose to partake. Just because they choose to argue this model doesn't mean that it's actually the correct and relevant one.

I really don't feel like doing a bunch of typing tonight but I did do a quick search for something from a credible source that was remotely close to where I was headed with this discussion when I first shared these links some time ago. Too often we get apples from folks who can't understand that we're actually harvesting oranges. At least that's what the current generation is harvesting. What you posted in response was a clear example of this shortcoming. So, have a read here and maybe see where you/Mises misses the reality of the current generations hand me downs. The hand me downs that come from industrial age thinkers (like Mises and it's following) who foolishly believe they can continue to push their skullduggery off on a completely new generation in an entirely different and contradictory age.

There is a difference between growth and survival. A big one.

http://www.examiner.com/article/gerald-celente-trend-for-2013-is-an-expansion-of-local-community-economics

[heavenlyboy34]

Mises misses the big picture. As politically driven people often do. The see what they want to see according to the model thay choose to partake. Just because they choose to argue this model doesn't mean that it's actually the correct and relevant one.

I really don't feel like doing a bunch of typing tonight but I did do a quick search for something from a credible source that was remotely close to where I was headed with this discussion when I first shared these links some time ago. Too often we get apples from folks who can't understand that we're actually harvesting oranges. At least that's what the current generation is harvesting. What you posted in response was a clear example of this shortcoming. So, have a read here and maybe see where you/Mises misses the reality of the current generations hand me downs. The hand me downs that come from industrial age thinkers (like Mises and it's following) who foolishly believe they can continue to push their skullduggery off on a completely new generation in an entirely different and contradictory age.

There is a difference between growth and survival. A big one.

http://www.examiner.com/article/gerald-celente-trend-for-2013-is-an-expansion-of-local-community-economics
That article doesn't bolster your claim or refute the Mises article's claim. Your article is emotion-driven opinion, not verifiable fact. This is Celente's big weakness, btw. He gets things right on occasion, but his reasoning is rarely well done.

[muh_roads]

Most companies that brag about being "made in the USA" are companies that don't require human labor anyway. It's all built by assembly line machines. Whenever a lot of hands and fingers are needed to make things by hand, those get shipped to cheap wage countries.

[heavenlyboy34]

Most companies that brag about being "made in the USA" are companies that don't require human labor anyway. It's all built by assembly line machines. Whenever a lot of hands and fingers are needed to make things by hand, those get shipped to cheap wage countries.
Truth. Plus, a number of products not bearing the "made in America" label were actually built in America but assembled overseas. Conversely, companies like Toyota have plants in the US where local folks assemble the cars designed and often built overseas.

[Natural Citizen]

That article doesn't bolster your claim or refute the Mises article's claim. Your article is emotion-driven opinion, not verifiable fact. This is Celente's big weakness, btw. He gets things right on occasion, but his reasoning is rarely well done.

I don't really give a flying shit about Mises' claim. It's irrelevant. He's (meaning Celente) spot on here though. Maybe take time to see what the current generation of youth is doing to survive. Successfully, I might add. And without nonsensical screeds from people who who choose to make the issue something that it isn't. Something irrelevant.

Actually, Mises is correct in the argument they make when it's relevant to that issue/discussion so i shouldn't bash them for the placement of it here.

I think you just threw a link to it in a place where it didn't belong just because you don't see the point of discussing community based economy and relevant outliers that are in fact a reality today.

[heavenlyboy34]

I don't really give a flying shit about Mises' claim. It's irrelevant.
Actually, it's entirely relevant, as it deals specifically with the issue at hand. If you don't care about your opponents' counter-arguments, why are you on a discussion forum discussing it? Quite counter-productive, yes?

[kpitcher]

I've used that website several times in the past. I like it. Try to buy American whenever I can, but i realized it is next to impossible to buy casual shoes made in America anymore. The only company that even does it at all is New Balance.

SAS shoes are very nice shoes. Great support and comfort. They're the local shoe store's best seller. I know they'll last for years and my feet thank me everytime I wear them.

[muh_roads]

I get a kick out of the SC Johnson commercials when they say "a family company" at the end of each one. It just tugs at the heart strings...lol

No thanks, I'll go for the generic version.

[Natural Citizen]

Actually, it's entirely relevant, as it deals specifically with the issue at hand.

Yeah? Well what do you think the issue at hand is, HB?

We've gone from a buy American model to community based economy in the nation's current state. And not even done yet. What you're doing here is comparable to looking over a wrecked car and saying "Well...the tires are flat so that's why we can't drive it...according to this paper I have here, if I pump up the tires we might oughtta be able to drive out of here"...not even caring about the fact that the other half of the car is sitting on the other end of the junk yard yet.

[heavenlyboy34]

Yeah? Well what do you think the issue at hand is, HB?
Unless you were kidding in the OP (see below), it's about the supposed virtues of the "Buy American" campaign.


Please try to support American Workers by buying products from the directory below. Click on a letter below to go to that category (example to find American Made Jeans click C for Clothes or J for Jeans.) If you know of a good American Made Product not on the list use the Submit Product Form (http://americansworking.com/productsubmit.html)for consideration of listing here.

http://americansworking.com/

Additionally there is a good list of sources for many products at the following links.

American Made Building Products (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/10/how-to-build-a-made-in-america-home/) – 120+ products from over 33 states

If every builder bought just 5% more American materials it could create 220,000 jobs right now. Of course, historically, it only takes 2% to actually cause change across the board with any given endeavor.

[Natural Citizen]

Unless you were kidding in the OP (see below), it's about the supposed virtues of the "Buy American" campaign.

Uh-uh. I posted those links as an aside to the issue of unemployment with every intention of maybe soliciting discussion on the effects of unemployment and measures we see being taken by the current generation to survive from within infrastructure where the growth model is all that is debated. These people not only buy american but buy and create their own local economy. As did the boomers before they got greedy and screwed it all up. In fact, I wouldn't even have posted it that way had I not thought that some here who aren't affected by it couldn't use the information for whatever reason. You can't take a topic and then say that just what you read in the title is all there is to it. Shit, man. That's like saying "Well...I sat on the floor for 13 hours saying how much I didn't like drones so that was the key issue that a key demographic of people wanted to hear at that specific time and so that's all I had to think about....no need concerning myself with it any more or caring about it's continued progress and continued effect on people".

[tod evans]

American Made Building Products (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/10/how-to-build-a-made-in-america-home/) – 120+ products from over 33 states

If every builder bought just 5% more American materials it could create 220,000 jobs right now. Of course, historically, it only takes 2% to actually cause change across the board with any given endeavor.

China has been slapped with a huge tariff that's hit lots of cabinet shops hard.

Here's a thread about it... (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?428206-Chinese-sanctioned-for-dumping-plywood)

From what my wholesaler tells me there'll be more like a 50% increase in American sheetgoods now..

[Natural Citizen]

China has been slapped with a huge tariff that's hit lots of cabinet shops hard.

Here's a thread about it... (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?428206-Chinese-sanctioned-for-dumping-plywood)

From what my wholesaler tells me there'll be more like a 50% increase in American sheetgoods now..

This is actually a situation where HB's Mises paper is relevant, I think. Meaning "sound market principles".

I had heard this some time ago from people I know in the case goods business.

[heavenlyboy34]

Uh-uh. I posted those links as an aside to the issue of unemployment with every intention of maybe soliciting discussion on the effects of unemployment and measures we see being taken by the current generation to survive from within infrastructure where the growth model is all that is debated. These people not only buy american but buy and create their own local economy. As did the bommers before they got greedy and screwed it all up. In fact, I wouldn't even have posted it that way had I not thought that some here who aren't affected by it couldn't use the information for whatever reason. You can't take a topic and then say that just what you read in the title is all there is to it. Shit, man. That's like saying "Well...I sat on the floor for 13 hours saying how much I didn't like drones so that was the key issue that a key demographic of people wanted to hear at that specific time and so that's all I had to think about....no need concerning myself with it any more or caring about it's continued progress and continued effect on people".
Yes, but I didn't do that. Are there merits to a healthy microeconomy? Yes. But that is an incredibly myopic view-and as helmuth and I have pointed out, doesn't stand up to the test of logic.

[Natural Citizen]

But that is an incredibly myopic view-and as helmuth and I have pointed out, doesn't stand up to the test of logic.

Of course, it doesn't. Cripes, I've said about 50 times around here that industrial age logic doesn't stand up to the current age we live in. The reality is that once the boomers die off naturally then everything makes complete sense. Not a myopic view. It's nuts and bolts. Is real.

You can't logically argue the principles of a growth model built on an obsolete age and then place them into a perspective conforming to survival mode (and of a new generation) in a completely different (contradictory) infrastructural age.

I'm not trying to be an ass toward you, HB. I just think we're looking through different lenses. In fact, we are. Sometimes i come off the wrong way. Is not my intention.

[fr33]

There really are so many factors to consider when you are buying a product if you are considering where it was built or came from.

Just a few of them:

Was it just assembled here from parts made abroad?

Do the workers creating the product vote? Do they draw any type of welfare? Who do they vote for?

The answers to these questions can affect you more than the actual product you are buying.

[heavenlyboy34]

Of course, it doesn't. Cripes, I've said about 50 times around here that industrial age logic doesn't stand up to the current age we live in. The reality is that once the boomers die off naturally then everything makes complete sense. Not a myopic view. It's nuts and bolts. Is real.

You can't logically argue the principles of a growth model built on an obsolete age and then place them into a perspective conforming to survival mode (and of a new generation) in a completely different (contradictory) infrastructural age.

I'm not trying to be an ass toward you, HB. I just think we're looking through different lenses. In fact, we are. Sometimes i come off the wrong way. Is not my intention.
There is some truth to what you say, and I neglected to include them in my previous posts. Sorry. For example, we exist in a very statist world-economies more command/control than not. Central banks worldwide manipulating currency. And so on. But the principles underlying my previous posts/arguments remain true. I maintain that regular people (market actors of all sorts) can get around all that if they really want to. Hell, the FedGov can't even keep drugs out of "secure" rape cages.

[specsaregood]

Sometimes I get the feeling that some of our local anarchists objects to the idea of buying American less because of some economic theories and more because they bristle at the idea off being put into a collective based on a state and feel the need to rebel against the idea to show their independentness.

[heavenlyboy34]

Sometimes I get the feeling that some of our local anarchists objects to the idea of buying American less because of some economic theories and more because they bristle at the idea off being put into a collective based on a state and feel the need to rebel against the idea to show their independentness.
Economics is value-free. One need not even deal with "rebelliousness" and various other subjective traits. Even without dealing with the ridiculous appeals to nationalism, "Buy American" is full of fail.

[CaptUSA]

Sometimes I get the feeling that some of our local anarchists objects to the idea of buying American less because of some economic theories and more because they bristle at the idea off being put into a collective based on a state and feel the need to rebel against the idea to show their independentness.Well, I'm not an anarchist. I do understand wealth creation and destruction, though. It seems so simple to me. It's the seen vs. the unseen.

Sure I can spend more money buying American products that employ other Americans, but then I won't be able to afford the deck I was planning to buy which would have employed other Americans. The only difference is that with my economic model, I have my deck AND the other products. Bastiat really explains this more simply than I can.

And Natural Citizen, why should I deprive my local handyman employment because I spent my wealth on other Americans in other states instead?

[specsaregood]

./

[Uriah]

8 Foods That Are Cheaper To Grow Than To Buy (http://www.businessinsider.com/plants-that-will-save-you-money-2013-6#leafy-greens-1)

There are all kinds of wild edibles that one can grow as well depending on your climate. Wapato, jerusalem artichoke, many nuts & berries, etc Not to mention hemp! All grow fairly easily.

[oyarde]

My wholesaler knows I don't purchase imported goods from Taiwan or China, I do however use Baltic birch plywood from Russia..

Some hardware from Germany and Italy too..

I source quality and if I can obtain quality from an American manufacturer I'll use 'em...Is there a reason you like the birch ?

[tod evans]

Is there a reason you like the birch ?

It's a consistent quality product.

Remember the school desks with plywood tops?

http://www.woodpeck.com/media/main_birch-boards.jpg

[Acala]

When I buy the product that suits me best in terms of price, quality, etc. I benefit. I am an American. America benefits when I benefit. So buying the product that suits my needs benefits America no matter where it originated.

[FindLiberty]

... made in america maytag with the mechanical controls, lid that doesn't lock when you start it and double action agitator gets installed tomorrow. I'm still on that same path to eventually retro my complex "h.e." Maytag washer - it's weird but still working for several years now. While visiting Knox college this year, I discovered that Maytag had run away to Mexico years ago (I see another Detroit coming for Galesburg, IL):

Maytag scurried from multiple USA locations after getting caught in some sort of a Whirlpool:

Galesburg, IL http://inthesetimes.com/article/maytag_moves_to_mexico/maytag_moves_to_mexico

Newton? http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3445_162-3381945.html

No green shoots spotted in this country.
Fiat monetary collapse feared next.

(lol, Does Glyphosate kill the greenback too?)

[tod evans]

Americans have proven over the years that they'll purchase the lowest priced items that will fulfill their immediate needs.

This is where the pacific rim countries made their inroads into our economy.

Now India is the new China as we continue to purchase the lowest priced items in order to fulfill immediate needs we must find cheaper and cheaper labor.

Gone are the times when the purchase of goods was looked upon as an investment in the future.

Equipment,vehicles, furniture, even clothing were purchased for serviceability and longevity less than a century ago now these one time investments are sold as consumables and with that mindset comes the need for cheap labor and "efficient" engineering..

"Stuff" is the type of wealth we have chosen, and we've chosen the cheapest "stuff" that'll serve its purpose right now.

[Natural Citizen]

"Stuff" is the type of wealth we have chosen, and we've chosen the cheapest "stuff" that'll serve its purpose right now.

An inconvenient truth here. Reminds me of the old Carlin skit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac

[specsaregood]

..

[FindLiberty]

Thanks for the info! (THAT may be my next appliance purchase when this one fails)

Check out this Clyde Ohio Corporate Propaganda Reel w/some classic 16mm footage.
Some of the YouTube comments are a real hoot too... [cough, Whirlpool, cough]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRVRAbLambQ&amp;noredirect=1

Interesting "life after loss of the Maytag paycheck": http://www.udel.edu/anthro/ackerman/Maytag.pdf

This LG washer was "entertaining"...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z4fjiCz6tU

[willwash]

Not necessarily. This is Econ 101. It's simple, really. If each person had to spend more money in order to buy American, they would have less money to buy other things. That means that the economy would move slower.

Again, this is about value - not where the items originate. Please review comparative advantage and understand how both countries benefit. Or read Bastiat. It may be simpler. This is not spin - it's real economics. "Buy American" is spin. I'm not suggesting that people should not buy American, I'm suggesting that they get the most value for their dollar. That's what spurs economic growth.

Except that that dollar you just sent to china is now in china and not in the hands of an American who will keep the wealth it represents at home. Whatever mathematical disadvantage I incur by buying American vs Chinese is more than compensated for by the advantage incurred by the American seller...while i may pay 20% less buying chinese, 100% of what i spend is then lost permanently to the american economy, whereas when i buy american, that wealth stays in circulation here. to me, that fact adds value to the product i buy. The sense I get that my purchase of a us product is helping American workers and ultimately the us economy is not a "false" one. It just seems we assign different values to it, with me assigning it enough value to compensate for the slightly higher price, and you assigning it zero value. That makes buying American the rational choice for me, and buying Chinese the rational choice for you. I don't look down on you from my ivory tower of higher thinking; I hope you might similarly refrain.

It's like buying a lottery ticket. Everyone knows its a bad buy mathematically, but the enjoyment derived from the daydreaming and escapism it provides has value, which more than compensates for the house edge, making it a rational economic purchase.

[tod evans]

Something that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that those who choose to buy Chinese made goods are making the conscious decision to reward several government agencies and importers besides the Chinese people.

Personally I don't care for "importers" and I despise government employees.

Maybe AF can chime in on the folks involved in shipping these "goods" to the consumer...I'd think seafaring vessels would have intimate knowledge of both governments involved and "importers" too....

[specsaregood]

Except that that dollar you just sent to china is now in china and not in the hands of an American who will keep the wealth it represents at home. Whatever mathematical disadvantage I incur by buying American vs Chinese is more than compensated for by the advantage incurred by the American seller...while i may pay 20% less buying chinese, 100% of what i spend is then lost permanently to the american economy, whereas when i buy american, that wealth stays in circulation here. to me, that fact adds value to the product i buy.

Also, if you agree with Dr. Paul, that the value of the dollar is primarily driven and propped up by OPEC and the petro-dollar, and that the real demand for dollars is the insatiable need for oil; then the more dollars that stay "home" limits the supply overseas, driving the value of the dollar up and making imports of foreign products even less expensive.

[Acala]

Americans have proven over the years that they'll purchase the lowest priced items that will fulfill their immediate needs.

This is where the pacific rim countries made their inroads into our economy.

Now India is the new China as we continue to purchase the lowest priced items in order to fulfill immediate needs we must find cheaper and cheaper labor.

Gone are the times when the purchase of goods was looked upon as an investment in the future.

Equipment,vehicles, furniture, even clothing were purchased for serviceability and longevity less than a century ago now these one time investments are sold as consumables and with that mindset comes the need for cheap labor and "efficient" engineering..

"Stuff" is the type of wealth we have chosen, and we've chosen the cheapest "stuff" that'll serve its purpose right now.

This is true. Of course anyone who bought an American car in the 1970s and 1980s knows that making the cheapest stuff that will serve the purpose is not strictly an Asian specialty. Americans are quite capable of making shite. And the Japanese and Germans are quite capable of making items of the best quality.

[Acala]

Except that that dollar you just sent to china is now in china and not in the hands of an American who will keep the wealth it represents at home.

For every doomed paper dollar I send to China, I get in exchange some useful item that comes to live with me in America. Does that strike you as being good for China and bad for the USA?

[ghengis86]

For every doomed paper dollar I send to China, I get in exchange some useful item that comes to live with me in America. Does that strike you as being good for China and bad for the USA?

The Chinese aren't that stupid though. They recycle those doomed dollars by buying hard assets, and stakes/JV or outright purchasing resource rich industry and companies. One of the largest Chinese companies just bought the 60-story JP Morgan building at 1 Chase Manhattan Plaza in New York, which also contains the world largest bank vault anchored to the bedrock, and longer than a football field, six stories below ground.

So, if all they did was hold doomed dollars or buy US Treasury's, they'd be screwed. As it were though, they're playing chess while our 'leaders' are playing checkers.

[willwash]

For every doomed paper dollar I send to China, I get in exchange some useful item that comes to live with me in America. Does that strike you as being good for China and bad for the USA?

As long as the dollar holds value as an international currency, yes. I grant that the day is coming where that will no longer be the case but were not there yet.

[libertariantexas]

SAS shoes are very nice shoes. Great support and comfort. They're the local shoe store's best seller. I know they'll last for years and my feet thank me everytime I wear them.

I just took my wife to the factory store in San Antonio yesterday and bought her 2 pairs of SAS shoes.

They are the only shoes she wears for work.

We also got an "assembled in the USA" (whatever that means) refrigerator delivered yesterday.

If I find an American made product that fits my needs and it competitively priced, I'll buy it. But I'm not going to pay significantly more or buy a product that doesn't fit my needs just to "buy American."

[oyarde]

It's a consistent quality product.

Remember the school desks with plywood tops?

http://www.woodpeck.com/media/main_birch-boards.jpg

So that is what they were made of , nice .

[oyarde]

I had no idea that any plywood would be imported from outside the US or Canada , figured that would be too costly. Learn something every day .

[tod evans]

I had no idea that any plywood would be imported from outside the US or Canada , figured that would be too costly. Learn something every day .

"China ply" has been manufactured on boats just past the line of demarcation since the 70's that I'm aware of..Government subsidized, no EPA, fishhead labor...

Substandard product all the way around but cheap.

There's an American company that tries to compete with the Ruskies but their core material is inferior...It pays to have birch forests to harvest raw materials from.

GP and Weyerhaeuser run softwood ply and MDF/OSB in the US but those panels are for different uses.

Every production line kitchen cabinet including "name brands" are built out of "China-ply" so look for some fairly large price increases..

[helmuth_hubener]

So 3 years ago, our decade+ old american-made washing machine finally died. I was going to get it fixed; but the wifey wanted a new washer. I suggested we get another simple washer just like the last one; but she ended up going shopping with the MIL and ended up coming back with a fancy-ass chinese washing machine with digital everything, HE and no agitator. She was in love with it and it wasn't that expensive so there!.... It took abouta month,then I started hearing about how it "doesn't clean the clothes as well as the old one", "I can't add more water to it", "I have to use the heavy duty cycle for everthing" and so on. I just nodded and empathized. Come the other evening, it broke down, first it stopped spinning, then it just shorted out. Full of a load of dirty ass nurse clothes she needed for the next morning. As she was heading out the door to go wash them for the next day, I told her I'd see about getting a repair guy out here ASAP. She said, "screw that, you were right, I don't want another computerized HE POS, just go and get a new one like you suggested, one with an agitator." :)

The made in america maytag with the mechanical controls, lid that doesn't lock when you start it and double action agitator gets installed tomorrow.

Sounds like a story with a happy ending! The husband was right; that's always a cause to rejoice! ;) I, too, believe the older vertical-agitator design is a better design. I am a fan of older appliances in general. Old refrigerators, for instance, will last indefinitely, while new refrigerators will never, never (never) last more than 10 years.

Keep your receipt, though, Specs. Maytag went down-hill a while ago, and I don't know that they have climbed back up. My grandparents always bought Maytag, and they lasted forever, of course. About 10 years ago they replaced the old fridge (which was still working fine after 30 years or whatever, of course) with another Maytag. Which very quickly started having problems, problems, nothing but problems, problems that never end. Part of this is the fault of our barbaric monopoly state, which has forced bad design decisions on the entire fridge industry. But mostly it is the fault of Maytag, which decided to start producing trash. This was an interesting decision, and turned out to have some mixed consequences. My grandparents, for instance, will obviously never buy Maytag again, whereas before they absolutely wouldn't have bought anything else. This story was repeated a few million times. And then Maytag went bankrupt.


Take quality control. For decades, as alluded to in the lonely-repairman commercials, reliability set Maytag apart from its rivals and justified high prices. Yet well before Hake arrived, Maytag had begun to slip. The company's high-end Neptune washer, for instance, started off strong when it was introduced in 1997. But it quickly turned into a dud. The electronic control boards shorted out, and door leaks led to mold problems. Although Maytag made fixes in subsequent models, the company is still dogged by the experience. It's been forced to set aside $33.5 million for class-action lawsuits arising from the Neptune problems.

Hake and other Maytag officials declined to be interviewed for this story. But sources outside the company contend that Hake's cost slashing (including about 4,000 layoffs) effectively handcuffed quality-improvement efforts. One former Amana executive thinks Maytag overreached. Starting with the Neptune, he says, "they got into an area of design that they weren't expert in and it didn't work. And service department people now tell me that overall quality is worse than what most people know."

Consumers seem to agree. Since Hake took over, Maytag's ratings on the American Customer Satisfaction Index, the top industry performance scorecard, have fallen 7 percent. "Three constituencies are dropping Maytag," says Claes Fornell, creator of the ACSI and a business school professor at the University of Michigan, "consumers, retailers, and investors. But it started with consumers. Maytag used to be the leader in customer satisfaction. Now it's at all-time lows."

Too Late to Offshore

The great irony of Hake's fixation with the balance sheet is that he wasn't aggressive enough in the one area where it might have mattered the most: moving factories overseas. Even today, some 3,000 Maytag workers at four U.S. factories make 88 percent of the company's goods. To offshoring critics like Lou Dobbs, that's a red-white-and-blue mark of distinction. But in the appliance market, it's a death knell.

Top appliance maker Whirlpool, for example, began offshoring a decade ago. Today it runs factories in 13 countries. Sweden's Electrolux is spending $1.4 billion to build cheaper factories around the world, and its Frigidaire brand is the only one to gain market share in the past six months.

To be sure, Hake hasn't just been sitting around idly staring at spreadsheets. Last year, for instance, he opened a new refrigerator plant in Reynosa, Mexico, after closing Maytag's Galesburg, Ill., plant in the face of heavy union resistance--a move that has already saved the company $23 million. "We have sourced very little historically as a company, and we will continue to source more," Hake told investors at an analysts' conference in March. "The percentage will go up." But not fast enough, critics say, to make a difference.

-- http://money.cnn.com/magazines/business2/business2_archive/2005/05/01/8259675/

Anyway, it's too bad you are now stuck with a washer that was assembled in the USA, by a company with such horrible quality problems and massive failure rates they went bankrupt. Luckily, all its components were (of course) proudly Made in China, and so they will be of top quality. Hopefully the bumbling American union thugs could at least figure out how to read the assembly instructions (hopefully the translators did a good job!) and thus didn't bungle up the good quality Chinese parts into a typical American-quality (that is: horrible-quality) assembled product.

We'll keep our fingers crossed for you! But like I say: be wise and keep your receipt.

[mad cow]

So 3 years ago, our decade+ old american-made washing machine finally died. I was going to get it fixed; but the wifey wanted a new washer. I suggested we get another simple washer just like the last one; but she ended up going shopping with the MIL and ended up coming back with a fancy-ass chinese washing machine with digital everything, HE and no agitator. She was in love with it and it wasn't that expensive so there!.... It took abouta month,then I started hearing about how it "doesn't clean the clothes as well as the old one", "I can't add more water to it", "I have to use the heavy duty cycle for everthing" and so on. I just nodded and empathized. Come the other evening, it broke down, first it stopped spinning, then it just shorted out. Full of a load of dirty ass nurse clothes she needed for the next morning. As she was heading out the door to go wash them for the next day, I told her I'd see about getting a repair guy out here ASAP. She said, "screw that, you were right, I don't want another computerized HE POS, just go and get a new one like you suggested, one with an agitator." :)

The made in america maytag with the mechanical controls, lid that doesn't lock when you start it and double action agitator gets installed tomorrow.

You can lay a lot of that right at the feet of "Green" politicians mandating washers that use less energy and less water,hence colder wash temps,smaller motors and lighter parts.


In 1996, top-loaders were pretty much the only type of washer around, and they were uniformly high quality. When Consumer Reports tested 18 models, 13 were “excellent” and five were “very good.” By 2007, though, not one was excellent and seven out of 21 were “fair” or “poor.” This month came the death knell: Consumer Reports simply dismissed all conventional top-loaders as “often mediocre or worse.”

What happened to them? Federal energy efficiency mandates prevent them from working properly, by limiting water use and eliminating agitator function. Apparently bureauweenies think they should do all the agitating.

Efficiency standards for washing machines aren’t as well-known as those for light bulbs, which will effectively prohibit 100-watt incandescent bulbs next year. Nor are they the butt of jokes as low-flow toilets are. But in their quiet destruction of a highly affordable, perfectly satisfactory appliance, washer standards demonstrate the harmfulness of the ever-growing body of efficiency mandates.

Our rulers want us to use less effective front-loaders instead:
http://www.rightwingnews.com/uncategorized/big-government-mandates-defective-washing-machines/

My ~20 year old Kenmore washer and dryer gave up the ghost last spring and I replaced them with Ropers,mainly because they were the cheapest I could find but they also got surprisingly good reviews.

So far,so good.

[libertygold]

Thank you for the link. Will share it with friends.

[libertygold]

When I buy the product that suits me best in terms of price, quality, etc. I benefit. I am an American. America benefits when I benefit. So buying the product that suits my needs benefits America no matter where it originated.

But it benefits to buy American because of Obama's bad trade policies hurting American workers.

[specsaregood]

Please try to support American Workers by buying products from the directory below. Click on a letter below to go to that category (example to find American Made Jeans click C for Clothes or J for Jeans.) If you know of a good American Made Product not on the list use the Submit Product Form (http://americansworking.com/productsubmit.html) for consideration of listing here.

http://americansworking.com/


I ordered a bunch of tshirts from this site: http://www.redbubble.com/shop/t-shirts for Christmas presents.
They arrived yesterday, and they do an excellent job. Plus they use made in USA shirts by http://www.americanapparel.net/aboutus/verticalint/sweatshopfree/
I just got a chance to review the shirts and they are all really high quality and the printing on them is first class.

[specsaregood]

./

[erowe1]

If every builder bought just 5% more American materials it could create 220,000 jobs right now.

It doesn't work that way.

[Cutlerzzz]

Please try to support American Workers by buying products from the directory below. Click on a letter below to go to that category (example to find American Made Jeans click C for Clothes or J for Jeans.) If you know of a good American Made Product not on the list use the Submit Product Form (http://americansworking.com/productsubmit.html)for consideration of listing here.

http://americansworking.com/

Additionally there is a good list of sources for many products at the following links.

American Made Building Products (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/10/how-to-build-a-made-in-america-home/) – 120+ products from over 33 states

If every builder bought just 5% more American materials it could create 220,000 jobs right now. Of course, historically, it only takes 2% to actually cause change across the board with any given endeavor.

I'd prefer to support some impoverished Indian or Chinese people before helping some fat entitled American slob become fatter.

Of course, there is no such thing as Made in US or China anymore anyhow.

[angelatc]

http://michaelphelpsswimspa.com/_images/_models/hero-signature-2013.jpg

pulled the trigger today.... made in Indiana, US. kicked my ass during testing.

What is it?

[Natural Citizen]

It's a bathtub w/ jets.

[angelatc]

It's a bathtub w/ jets.

No, it looks too deep to be a tub. And it says "No Diving." I wonder if it is some sort of whirlpool spa thing?


ETA: Duh. I should have checked the picture URL : http://michael phelps swim spa.com (Spaces added so it won't truncate.)

[opal]

http://michaelphelpsswimspa.com/_images/_models/hero-signature-2013.jpg

pulled the trigger today.... made in Indiana, US. kicked my ass during testing.


what? no link?

[MichaelDavis]

Please try to support American Workers by buying products from the directory below. Click on a letter below to go to that category (example to find American Made Jeans click C for Clothes or J for Jeans.) If you know of a good American Made Product not on the list use the Submit Product Form (http://americansworking.com/productsubmit.html)for consideration of listing here.

http://americansworking.com/

Additionally there is a good list of sources for many products at the following links.

American Made Building Products (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/10/how-to-build-a-made-in-america-home/) – 120+ products from over 33 states

If every builder bought just 5% more American materials it could create 220,000 jobs right now. Of course, historically, it only takes 2% to actually cause change across the board with any given endeavor.

No. I am going to buy the best quality good for the lowest price. It may happen to be made in America, it will likely not. That's what's great about the free market. We need to lower corporate income taxes to stay competitive with the rest of the world. Greedy union thugs don't help either. Remember Hostess?

[tod evans]

"Good-fast or cheap...........pick two."

If you've never heard this it's true........

[specsaregood]

./

[angelatc]

Its a treadmill pool thing/spa. We got it instead of a downpayment on a bigger house. It's going to pretty much fill up our unused single car garage. Can't wait.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3O7ogePw6U

Yeah, I gotta tell you I pretty much drooled with envy when I figured out what it was. I am not normally a gadget person, but......do want. Looks like the RPF Midwest party needs to be at your house.

[specsaregood]

//

[Suzanimal]

Yay! Good for you! My sister-in-law has a new Forester and she loves it - it's a pretty sweet ride and that lap pool is the bomb!



Well, we aren't in the Midwest. :) Ya know I almost didn't post it because I know there are rpf'ers hurting out there economically and I didn't want to come off as a braggart; but it was just cool not to share.

As I mentioned in another thread; my wife really wanted to move to a bigger more expensive house. But after MUCH discussion, we determined that this swim device and a new car would improve our quality of life more than a bigger house and mortgage. So we are staying in our small, modest house which is probably the smallest house they ever delivered one of these beasts to.

As to the car: I really would have preferred to buy an American made vehicle; but we test drove and researched em all and nothing came close in the quality/performance/price range of the Subaru forester. So that's what the little woman has now to improve her commute to work. We had been a 1 car family for about 9 years...

[MelissaWV]

No. I am going to buy the best quality good for the lowest price. It may happen to be made in America, it will likely not. That's what's great about the free market. We need to lower corporate income taxes to stay competitive with the rest of the world. Greedy union thugs don't help either. Remember Hostess?

It will also likely have gone through an intermediary of some sort in America.

There are some awesome companies in the US who make quality products. There are also some who do so but happen to be based overseas. When you buy a Toyota instead of a Ford, your dollars are still employing Americans. This is why the rabid "overseas stuff is junk" people perplex me. Even those items exclusively made in the USA still depend greatly upon foreign-made machinery and computers to get the job done, which means that when your local widget plant expands, they are going to spend some of their money on foreign stuff.

That doesn't all fit neatly on a single label, though.

[Danke]

Yeah, I gotta tell you I pretty much drooled with envy when I figured out what it was. I am not normally a gadget person, but......do want. Looks like the RPF Midwest party needs to be at your house.

Could make it my place since he is not in the Midwest.

http://www.members.tripod.com/j.ronzio/3d8e7110.gif

I just fasten this to the tailgate when I want to practice my strokes:
http://www.oddjobmotors.com/images/johnsonj65.jpg

[helmuth_hubener]

It will also likely have gone through an intermediary of some sort in America.

There are some awesome companies in the US who make quality products. There are also some who do so but happen to be based overseas. When you buy a Toyota instead of a Ford, your dollars are still employing Americans. This is why the rabid "overseas stuff is junk" people perplex me. Even those items exclusively made in the USA still depend greatly upon foreign-made machinery and computers to get the job done, which means that when your local widget plant expands, they are going to spend some of their money on foreign stuff.

That doesn't all fit neatly on a single label, though. That's just how people are. Slap a Brazilian flag on the bottom of your product and everyone will love it and want to buy it. (That's in Brazil, of course.) Slap an Indian flag on the bottom of your product and everyone will love it and want to buy it. It's the same everywhere. People are hopelessly provincial.

[specsaregood]

Last fall I hired a lawn company to do my leaf cleanup. I found the company on craigslist and admired their ballsy pitch: American owned company, all employees are american, NO ILLEGALS on ground crew. They did a good job at competitive rates.

Its gonna a be a busy summer; so I searched on craigslist and found them using the same pitch. Hired em to do the lawn this summer; cheaper than the rates I've been quoted by the companies my neighbors use with a bunch of Guatemalans. Bonus is I have ground crew that I can talk to without making big hand motions, finger pointing and broken spanglish.

edit: saw 3 neighbors ask him for his business card/flyer while he was working. seeing a young white guy doing lawns is a rarity around here.

[specsaregood]

./

[helmuth_hubener]

Wow, specs, you are really committed to this whole "Made in America" thing, aren't you?

[specsaregood]

./

[Natural Citizen]

Bonus is I have ground crew that I can talk to without making big hand motions, finger pointing and broken spanglish.

edit: saw 3 neighbors ask him for his business card/flyer while he was working. seeing a young white guy doing lawns is a rarity around here.

Seems like a lot of the foreigners are starting to get comfortable with having a monopoly on this kind of work as well. Starting to get lazier and lazier. Am glad that you were able to bring some change to the neighborhood.

[helmuth_hubener]

Does that infringe on you in anyway? No, sir! I was just asking. That sounds like a yes.


I like quality products; I find American service and products of higher quality on average. I guess I could buy overseas products that are inexpensive partly due to cheap oil made so from the deaths and subjugation of millions; but that's not my style -- to each their own. Sounds like a load of hooey to me. But, we all have our narratives that we buy into. None completely align with reality, no doubt. We've just got to try to sort things out the best we can.

[specsaregood]

./

[specsaregood]

./

[specsaregood]

./

[MRK]

Isn't one supporting Americans when one buys a foreign-made product from an American retailer?

[oyarde]

Isn't one supporting Americans when one buys a foreign-made product from an American retailer?

I dunno , but I will not buy anything shitty , from anywhere .

[specsaregood]

./

[Natural Citizen]

I bought some American made baseball bats from the American Bat Company.

http://www.americanbatco.blogspot.com/p/our-bats.html

[oyarde]

I bought an 1852 gold pc. , made in america

[mad cow]

I bought two cases of Pabst Blue Ribbon,made in America.

[phill4paul]

Best leather conditioner...ever. I can't recommend enough...


Since 1968, master leather craftsmen and individuals alike have been relying on Leather Honey, the premium leather conditioner, to condition used leather and protect new leather. Uniquely formulated to penetrate deep into the pores of the leather, Leather Honey Leather Conditioner is designed to bring out the best in your favorite leather – from classic equestrian items to furniture, automobiles, shoes, apparel, wallets and more. And we do it without the use of any animal products, silicone, toxins, solvents, or other harmful chemicals.

Don’t just take our word for it — Leather Honey is the top-rated and best-selling leather conditioner on Amazon.com, with over 800 five-star reviews.

Sold by the same family that invented the product over 45 years ago, both Leather Honey Leather Conditioner and our NEW Leather Honey Leather Cleaner are proudly Made in the USA.


Why is it important to be chemical free?
Leather is always in contact with our skin – we wear it, sit on it, and even sleep on it. Adding toxins to your leather care products puts you at risk for developing irritations or sickness – and that’s something we’re just not willing to do.

Our leather conditioner is an original family recipe, developed in 1968. Over 45 years later, the same formula continues to be sold by our family today, and it features only the highest-quality, premium ingredients. Call us old-fashioned, but we think that’s the right way to do it…and we’re never changing our ways.


NON TOXIC • WATER REPELLENT • CONTROLS MILDEW • NO OILY RESIDUE

http://www.leatherhoney.com/

http://www.leatherhoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/leather-honey-conditioners.jpg

http://leatherhoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/couchwide_large.jpg

http://leatherhoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/boots2_large.jpg

http://leatherhoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/messengerbag_large.jpg

[helmuth_hubener]

The made in america maytag Someone would have to be totally unaware of the realities of manufacturing, or totally delusional, to believe that something like a washing machine like this was "Made in America".

It was made by the world.

[FloralScent]

Isn't one supporting Americans when one buys a foreign-made product from an American retailer?

You're supporting more Americans by buying domestically manufactured goods from an American retailer.

[helmuth_hubener]

You're supporting more Americans by buying domestically manufactured goods from an American retailer.

But if you get less satisfaction for more dollars, then you are failing to support the one American that it's very important that you support: yourself.

[Intoxiklown]

As I've said before, "Made in America" can be HIGHLY deceiving!

Only a small percentage of a product's assembly need be done in the US for such a label to be legally true. For example, you can import wheel chairs, and simply put handles and feet rests on it, and it is now "Made in America". I understand the passion, but don't let it blind you to international standards for manufacturing and sales.

[specsaregood]

./

[helmuth_hubener]

That machine is a year old now. Still going American strong with no problems whatsoever, its running right now as I type this in fact.
LOL! U-S-A! U-S-A!

Try opening up the cover, specs. Go ahead, I'll wait.

What is that you see? What does that label on that motor say? How about the pump?

Eek! Anathema! Quick, where's your garlic?

Now open the control panel and check out that printed circuit board.

Aack! Back, demon silicon!

Look up the model numbers of all the electronic components and learn about their genesis.

Good thing you're always wearing your anti-furrin silver cross.

Shoot, where do you think the rubber hose came from? The threaded adjustable feet? Even the enameled steel panels for that matter?

This machine was most certainly not "Made in America" in any way that I would call particularly meaningful. Your Delusions May Vary.

[RonPaulIsGreat]

I can't in good conscience go out of my way to support a country that would elect Obama twice, and push obamacare on everyone and bail out bankers. I hold no loyalty to the american worker. I am "stateless".

I would support businesses that were anti-socialism, anti-war, etc.... whether they were in the US, or somalia.

[Anti Federalist]

Helmuth...

Go rebuild a 3516 CAT engine with Chinese hand tools and chainfalls.

Then go and do it with US made tools.

Report your results.

I'll wait.

[Anti Federalist]

Helmuth...

Go rebuild a 3516 CAT engine with Chinese hand tools and chainfalls.

Then go and do it with US made tools.

Report your results.

I'll wait.

[specsaregood]

./

[Anti Federalist]

You took great offense at me mocking the "pro China" contingent here (the Chinese government seeming to do a pretty good job of stomping a mud hole in the ass of free trade Hong Kong), when I called them "communists" IIRC.

Why are you doing the same thing?


LOL! U-S-A! U-S-A!

Try opening up the cover, specs. Go ahead, I'll wait.

What is that you see? What does that label on that motor say? How about the pump?

Eek! Anathema! Quick, where's your garlic?

Now open the control panel and check out that printed circuit board.

Aack! Back, demon silicon!

Look up the model numbers of all the electronic components and learn about their genesis.

Good thing you're always wearing your anti-furrin silver cross.

Shoot, where do you think the rubber hose came from? The threaded adjustable feet? Even the enameled steel panels for that matter?

This machine was most certainly not "Made in America" in any way that I would call particularly meaningful. Your Delusions May Vary.

[specsaregood]

./

[Anti Federalist]

Yes, we all have our own definition in the term. The fact that it is designed, engineered and assembled in the U.S.A. puts it ahead of much/all of the competition. I'm not a proponent of letting perfect being the enemy of the good. It works for me; and yet for some reason you seem to have a problem with it. Last I checked, my consumer preferences aren't impinging any of your rights.

I guess, to the mind of a one world globalist, anybody who makes informed consumer choices that best serve both themselves and the people around them, you are nothing more than this:

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/b7/b757da6b8d12a2fa8d2ff2b1b4cff35be224686fc784397eda eb85d614822c6b.jpg

[helmuth_hubener]

and yet for some reason you seem to have a problem with it. Nope, I have no problem with it! I simply state truth, dropping nuggets where I feel moved upon to do so. My statement that only a delusional or ignorant person would believe that his modern washing machine was being made in quantity in the USA was a perfect model of accuracy. Reality is very, very, very far removed from that loony belief. Thus, only ignorance or delusion could cause one to hold such a preposterous belief.

I don't want you to be upset by the truth, though, specs. I just post it for enlightenment. Please feel free to plug your ears.

[specsaregood]

./

[helmuth_hubener]

You took great offense at me mocking the "pro China" contingent here.Oh no, I did not take any offense whatsoever, and what's more there was no mocking involved. Any mocking I probably would have found amusing and taken in whatever good spirit they were offered! You very somberly and fully seriously (and angrily) accused me of shouting hosannas to communism, celebrating communism, and in fact being a worshiper of communism. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?451255-Happy-%28Belated%29-%E6%96%B0%E5%B9%B4!-Buy-Something-Made-in-China!&p=5534848&viewfull=1#post5534848

You also refused to ever retract these claims about me:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?452245-A-neutral-look-at-police-brutality-What-the-police-have-to-say-Graph&p=5540152&viewfull=1#post5540152

So, we learned something new: you, AF, are none too scrupulous about the claims you make about other people. You will refuse to retract false statements and personal attacks, even when the attackee has brought it to your attention that they are false. In this case: I do not shout hosannas to communism, I do not celebrate communism, and I am not a worshiper of communism. That truth doesn't matter to you. You refuse to acknowledge it. You ignore it and let stand your false allegations. I do not take offense at this character failing. I simply make a note of it.


Why are you doing the same thing? Perhaps you do not understand what the words "same thing" mean. I am not the one to explain it to you. See a language therapist.

[helmuth_hubener]

Only an arrogant fool with a brainwashed ego would think you made available any information that was previously unknown to anybody in this thread.

Oh! The arrows!

It is so regretful that to see you reduced to lobbing empty insults. You're better than that.

[specsaregood]

./

[FloralScent]

Oh! The arrows!

It is so regretful that to see you reduced to lobbing empty insults. You're better than that.


Reality is very, very, very far removed from that loony belief. Thus, only ignorance or delusion could cause one to hold such a preposterous belief.

You started it.

[helmuth_hubener]

You started it.

Very smart people sometimes have loony beliefs. Sometimes those loony beliefs actually end up being part and parcel of their brilliance: the looniness ends up being right! I know nothing about specs. I just think that the belief in pure American-made washing machines is clearly wrong.

Specs has clarified that he does not hold any such loony belief. And that's bully! He has further speculated that he thinks I knew all along that he didn't, and once again, he is completely right, of course.

[Anti Federalist]

So, we learned something new: you, AF, are none too scrupulous about the claims you make about other people. You will refuse to retract false statements and personal attacks, even when the attackee has brought it to your attention that they are false. In this case: I do not shout hosannas to communism, I do not celebrate communism, and I am not a worshiper of communism. That truth doesn't matter to you. You refuse to acknowledge it. You ignore it and let stand your false allegations. I do not take offense at this character failing. I simply make a note of it.

You have, on numerous occasions, stated your praise and admiration and support for China.

China is now doing it's level best to squash perhaps the only true "free trade" zone on the face of the earth.

Why do you hate free trade?

Why do you mock and scorn people making free market decisions?

You hate freedom.

I stand by what I said.

[phill4paul]

As I've said before, "Made in America" can be HIGHLY deceiving!

Only a small percentage of a product's assembly need be done in the US for such a label to be legally true. For example, you can import wheel chairs, and simply put handles and feet rests on it, and it is now "Made in America". I understand the passion, but don't let it blind you to international standards for manufacturing and sales.

Truth....read the small print. Briggs and Stratton...

http://www.briggsandstratton.com/us/en/~/media/Images/BriggsandStratton/Why%20Briggs/MadeInUSA_FNL_4C.png

[tod evans]

Once again I cut some American grown and harvested hardwood on an Italian made saw using American made and brazed carbide on a Jewish made plate, Then I cut some Russian made plywood using the same tooling and fastened the pieces together using American made glue and clamped it together using American made clamps that were made out of American made steel last century..

The piece I'm working on is going to an American who earned his wealth selling American timber, he's married to a gal who made her money farming American dirt with American equipment.....

Yet here I am pissed that the foundries that built this country are gone, the really beautiful wood that's harvested today is shipped "overseas" to the nations that have picked up the global manufacturing slack..

But by God my countrymen can buy their cheap shit with funny money...

[Anti Federalist]

The arguments of the one world economy crowd sound an awful lot like those of the Westboro Baptist Church.

[helmuth_hubener]

You have, on numerous occasions, stated your praise and admiration and support for China. Why don't you find a single quote of me stating such things? I don't think you can. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else. It's OK. It happens. It's easy to get people mixed up on internet forums.


China is now doing it's level best to squash perhaps the only true "free trade" zone on the face of the earth. Hmm, perhaps. Of course, I wonder: do you know anything about it? Are you qualified to have an opinion? Have you ever lived in Hong Kong? Hmm, I'll keep my own counsel as to what I think is going on in Hong Kong, thank you very much. If I want to know about New Hampshire, I will value your opinion and consider it valid.


Why do you hate free trade? I do not. Why don't you find a single quote of me stating such a thing? I don't think you can. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else. It's OK. It happens. It's easy to get people mixed up on internet forums.


You hate freedom.

I stand by what I said. So, rather than admit you're wrong you are now doubling down on your assertions that I am a communist-loving communist worshiper and are now in fact adding more lies to them: stating that I personally hate free trade and that I hate freedom.

And that's OK, that's just the way you are! I'm just narrating the play-by-play so no onlookers get lost or confused. :)

[specsaregood]

./

[Inkblots]

http://www.learnliberty.org/content/free-trade-v-protectionism

It's not protectionism if they voluntarily choose to buy American-made products...

So long as no one is forcing me to "buy American" or trying to force up the price of foreign-made goods I want to purchase, I fail to see why anyone would be concerned about this.

[helmuth_hubener]

Helmuth...

Go rebuild a 3516 CAT engine with Chinese hand tools and chainfalls.
Oh yeah, I'll be really struggling using GearWrench, Craftsman, OTC, etc. They'll probably just fall apart in my hands.

Even Snap-On makes significant amount of stuff in China, and also Spain.

[Southron]

Bought a nice pair of Thorogood shoes recently that were made in the USA.

[tod evans]

Bought a nice pair of Thorogood shoes recently that were made in the USA.

Thanks for the reminder, I had to replace my 4 year old Redwings last month....

[edit]

While I'm at it there's USA beef thawing for supper..:D

[phill4paul]

Thanks for the reminder, I had to replace my 4 year old Redwings last month....

[edit]

While I'm at it there's USA beef thawing for supper..:D

Try the product I posted in post #114. Trust me on this. Great stuff!

[tod evans]

Try the product I posted in post #114. Trust me on this. Great stuff!

I'll try it on my "nice" leather, I'll never give up Huberds Boot Grease (http://www.huberds.com/) for boots/ riding leathers/ ass-gear/ ball gloves etc...

[phill4paul]

I'll try it on my "nice" leather, I'll never give up Huberds Boot Grease (http://www.huberds.com/) for boots/ riding leathers/ ass-gear/ ball gloves etc...

Well, Huberd's seems to be a water proofing formula. I'd probably do a run of Leather Honey to soften it up and then a run of Huberd's for work wear weatherproofing.

[helmuth_hubener]

You have, on numerous occasions, stated your praise and admiration and support for China. Once again, I call for you to provide support for this accusation. Find just one quote from me. Just one. Thanks.

No, you will not find any such quote. Unfortunately, I regret to predict that you will also not come back to this thread and admit that you can't find any such quote, manfully admitting you were wrong.

I will gladly and enthusiastically write and post positive things about the Chinese people. I will continue to do so. About the Chinese monopoly state? Again: find me a quote. Back up your accusation.


You hate freedom.

I stand by what I said. Do you really mean this seriously? Should I put this in my signature line?

[specsaregood]

./

[specsaregood]

./

[RJB]

I simply state truth, dropping nuggets where I feel moved upon to do so.

I'm curious about the material make-up of these nuggets that are being dropped.

[donnay]

Its been a tough summer for our old appliances. Our old Chinese made dishwasher died yesterday and I needed to replace it in a hurry. I was going to get another Made in USA maytag; but there weren't any the right color within 100 miles of us. So I did some searching, ended up with a Made in the USA GE dishwasher.

stumbled upon this site where GE is marketing to the made in America segment where they tell you the total content % that is US sourced.
http://www.geappliances.com/usa/

My sister's Magtag stove just kicked the bucket yesterday not even 8 years old. $1800.00

We definitely live in a time where Planned obsolescence is prevalent.

[helmuth_hubener]

Dear specsaregood and all the rest of you,

I'm sorry. I finally get it now.

Yes, reality is that there are certain things that today you can only -- realistically -- make in China. But the temptation is when you understand how things work to be arrogant and think that is how they should work, that is the best way for them to work, and that those who say "no, this is not so great" are just ignorant and backwards and standing impotently, stupidly, -- laughably -- against the inevitable.

That is actually wrong.

I was wrong.

There is a value to America. America is a good thing. Western Civilization is a good thing, and in many ways America is the crowning achievement of Western Civilization, the best and freest civilization mankind has yet built. And to try to support American prosperity is a good thing. To try to support American productivity and industry is a good thing. I get that. To vote with your dollars for the American worker is a noble thing. By doing that you try, even though it may be in just a small way, to do what you can to make it possible for the American way of life to continue. For your kids and grandkids to actually have a chance to find jobs and have families, instead of go on welfare and sleep around randomly and basically give up on any future, because that future has moved to China.

It's worth it to try to save America. It may not be possible, but it is a worthwhile goal. And I am sorry I made fun of you for trying to do so.

[helmuth_hubener]

And by the way:

https://screwsandfasteners.com.au/image/data/spax.jpg

http://www.ultimategarage.com/images/spax-homepic.jpg

Did some work on a deck today. Used these screws. They are the best. Box says Made in the USA or Germany... but hey, that's 50-50 odds at least! As specs says: don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. :)

[phill4paul]

Dear specsaregood and all the rest of you,

I'm sorry. I finally get it now.

Yes, reality is that there are certain things that today you can only -- realistically -- make in China. But the temptation is when you understand how things work to be arrogant and think that is how they should work, that is the best way for them to work, and that those who say "no, this is not so great" are just ignorant and backwards and standing impotently, stupidly, -- laughably -- against the inevitable.

That is actually wrong.

I was wrong.

There is a value to America. America is a good thing. Western Civilization is a good thing, and in many ways America is the crowning achievement of Western Civilization, the best and freest civilization mankind has yet built. And to try to support American prosperity is a good thing. To try to support American productivity and industry is a good thing. I get that. To vote with your dollars for the American worker is a noble thing. By doing that you try, even though it may be in just a small way, to do what you can to make it possible for the American way of life to continue. For your kids and grandkids to actually have a chance to find jobs and have families, instead of go on welfare and sleep around randomly and basically give up on any future, because that future has moved to China.

It's worth it to try to save America. It may not be possible, but it is a worthwhile goal. And I am sorry I made fun of you for trying to do so.

What did you buy that crapped out that made you change your mind?

[helmuth_hubener]

What did you buy that crapped out that made you change your mind?

:D

It wasn't that at all. It was realizing that while in theory there are an infinite number of jobs (because there's an infinite amount of human desires, an infinite amount of stuff to be done) in real life people cannot turn on a dime. 50 million people can't go from working in the manufacturing industry to writing computer code overnight.

In real life, there's something to be said for making things. And for America to be great, we should be making things.

[Anti Federalist]

Dear specsaregood and all the rest of you,

I'm sorry. I finally get it now.

Yes, reality is that there are certain things that today you can only -- realistically -- make in China. But the temptation is when you understand how things work to be arrogant and think that is how they should work, that is the best way for them to work, and that those who say "no, this is not so great" are just ignorant and backwards and standing impotently, stupidly, -- laughably -- against the inevitable.

That is actually wrong.

I was wrong.

There is a value to America. America is a good thing. Western Civilization is a good thing, and in many ways America is the crowning achievement of Western Civilization, the best and freest civilization mankind has yet built. And to try to support American prosperity is a good thing. To try to support American productivity and industry is a good thing. I get that. To vote with your dollars for the American worker is a noble thing. By doing that you try, even though it may be in just a small way, to do what you can to make it possible for the American way of life to continue. For your kids and grandkids to actually have a chance to find jobs and have families, instead of go on welfare and sleep around randomly and basically give up on any future, because that future has moved to China.

It's worth it to try to save America. It may not be possible, but it is a worthwhile goal. And I am sorry I made fun of you for trying to do so.

LOL - "Not sure if serious" was never said more...seriously.

[helmuth_hubener]

LOL - "Not sure if serious" was never said more...seriously.

Look out your window, AF. Does it look like April?!

I am totally serious and sincere.

[Anti Federalist]

Look out your window, AF. Does it look like April?!

I am totally serious and sincere.

Well, good, glad to see you "saw the light".

[helmuth_hubener]

I am always trying to learn new things, to challenge my beliefs, and to get closer to the truth. I hope I will never stop -- I certainly don't plan to.

Thanks for putting up with me (kind of! ;)) in the meantime. For the record, though, I never hated freedom. It still bugs me that you would say that. I am just a complex person with complex ideas in strange combinations that -- I know! -- can make me pretty incomprehensible to most everyone, on all sides of the aisle, and from all walks of life.

I hope to be able to work with you to save freedom; that I can contribute in my own small way to save America.

[erowe1]

America is the crowning achievement of Western Civilization, the best and freest civilization mankind has yet built.

Source?

[helmuth_hubener]

You see, erowe is an "r" strategist. He does not believe one society is -- or even possibly could be -- better than another. He does not believe any one culture is superior to any other. He does not believe any person is superior to any other person; we're all totally equal. (well, other than in a religious sense where some few elite are "elect" and others aren't, but that's a whole different story. He keeps that in a whole separate, condoned-off mental compartment.)

America is awesome. Literally, as in: awe-inspiring. I do not mean this in the blind, jingoistic sense that bxm constantly skewers so well. I mean that the virtues and values that Americans carved out and stood for are beautiful and very, very good. I am proud of America's history. I am proud of the heritage of the Declaration of Independence, Common Sense, the Bill of Rights, On Civil Disobedience, For a New Liberty, and so much more! We have contributed an unparalleled amount of literary and intellectual wealth to the cause of human liberty. I am proud of the incredible, almost super-human achievements of Thomas Edison, Cornelius Vanderbilt, Charles M. Schwab, Henry Ford, James J. Hill, Steve Jobs, and many others. I am proud of America's shining example of what a free market can do.

You don't like America and don't find it particularly valuable or worth preserving. Fine. Noted. But most of the rest of us do. It's not perfect and never has been. And -- shocker! -- chances are good that no human society ever will be perfect! The solution is not to denigrate and hate on America, but rather to exalt and celebrate the ideals and principles of America. If you must denigrate and hate, hate the betrayals and the corruption that has increasingly moved the reality of America away from its ideals. The solution is not the end and destruction of America -- for example through the third-world invasion you advocate -- it is to make America even more American! It is to get back to our roots, and in fact to improve on them, becoming ever better and ever freer.

And as for

Source?

Source? Same as our source for everything: my own senses. My body's ability to bring in sensory data and my mind's ability to interpret that data into information, that information into knowledge, and finally that knowledge into wisdom -- that is my source. Anyone with eyes can see that America is a comparatively good place to live and earn a living and raise a family. Do you have a family, erowe?

[erowe1]

You see, erowe is an "r" strategist. He does not believe one society is -- or even possibly could be -- better than another. He does not believe any one culture is superior to any other. He does not believe any person is superior to any other person; we're all totally equal.

None of this is true.



Source? Same as our source for everything: my own senses. My body's ability to bring in sensory data and my mind's ability to interpret that data into information, that information into knowledge, and finally that knowledge into wisdom -- that is my source. Anyone with eyes can see that America is a comparatively good place to live and earn a living and raise a family. Do you have a family, erowe?

That's not a very good source. How would you be in any position to know what is the best and freest civilization mankind has ever built?

"Comparatively good" is not the same as "best ever."

Yes, I have a family.

[helmuth_hubener]

None of this is true. Good. Then you're reachable. You will eventually come around, like me. Just wait for it. Keep thinking. Keep learning. :)




That's not a very good source. And yet, it's the only one any of us have!


Yes, I have a family. And you are raising your children in America, true? Wouldn't it be great to make America better, not worse? Isn't it important to you that America be as good and high-quality as possible?

[kpitcher]

I've used that website several times in the past. I like it. Try to buy American whenever I can, but i realized it is next to impossible to buy casual shoes made in America anymore. The only company that even does it at all is New Balance.

SAS makes nice comfy shoes, from Texas. My local shoestore carries them

http://www.sasshoes.com/

[helmuth_hubener]

I was surprised to find out that this new grill (also part of the deck project) was actually made in Texas (Arlington, to be specific)!

https://www.menards.com/main/store/20090519001/items/media/Hardware/GAEGL001_200/ProductLarge/Closedlid-leftview.jpg

I didn't know there were any American grill manufacturers left (that actually manufactured in America, I mean).

It's a nice-looking grill, very sleek.

http://www.savorpro.com/

[kpitcher]

Kalamazoo Grills are made in Kalamazoo, MI. They're a hybrid of gas and wood. High end luxury item.

https://kalamazoogourmet.com

https://kalamazoogourmet.com/images/uploads/inpage/kalamazoo-wood-fired-grilling.jpg

[specsaregood]

./

[Danke]

I bought a snow shovel yesterday. And i'll be darned if the thing has Made in USA proudly stamped on it.

Also, this article was interesting:
http://hackaday.com/2016/01/18/whats-in-a-tool-a-case-for-made-in-usa/


more at link above.

Harbor freight. Some stuff is good and cheap, but a lot of it is cheap in bad.

[oyarde]

[iQUOTE=specsaregood;6102709]I bought a snow shovel yesterday. And i'll be darned if the thing has Made in USA proudly stamped on it.

Also, this article was interesting:
http://hackaday.com/2016/01/18/whats-in-a-tool-a-case-for-made-in-usa/
This is true and most of it , you only need to hold it to tell .Some of it you have to use .

more at link above.

Harbor freight. Some stuff is good and cheap, but a lot of it is cheap and bad.[/QUOTE]

[Natural Citizen]

I just ordered a new leash for my 1 Year old Belgian Malinois. My other one which I've owned for 12 years is still good but it was my German Shepherd's leash who passed a couple of years back. I decided to get another one for the new boy. Only difference in them is that my old leash has a brass snap whereas the new ones use a high quality stainless steel. I could have got one with a brass snap in a 4' leash but I need a 6' leash with this dog. He has some learning to do yet.

It's top notch and the best leather leash money can buy. 35 bucks with free shipping from Leerburg which I'll link. Three links, I'll share. One for the leash and one for the manufacturing process, and, then, one for the Home Page. They're hand made in Wisconsin, America.


http://leerburg.com/6ft34inleatherleash.htm
http://leerburg.com/amish.htm

http://leerburg.com/index.htm

Check out the collars, too.:)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFe6Ca-rsMc

[helmuth_hubener]

I'm typing this on this:

http://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/UN40L5A%20600X600.png

Bought it brand new from Unicomp a few weeks ago. It's a great keyboard. Very nice -- much better than the "modern" rubber-dome keyboards. They manufacture them in Kentucky. Very fast shipping, great service. I highly recommend them.

[Anti Federalist]

You have, on numerous occasions, stated your praise and admiration and support for China.

China is now doing it's level best to squash perhaps the only true "free trade" zone on the face of the earth.

Why do you hate free trade?

Why do you mock and scorn people making free market decisions?

You hate freedom.

I stand by what I said.

Interesting, the 180 degree U turn HH made before jumping the shark and finding the banhammer.

I, however, have remained consistent.

[ciceroleather]

LUXURY WITHIN GRASP – HANDMADE LEATHER WALLETSCicero Leather (https://ciceroleather.com/) is a family of leathersmiths who love to create handmade leather products. The inspiration of our products comes from the values we stand for
As designers and manufacturers the best handmade men’s leather wallets, we believe that our values lie in our responsibility to offer customers the highest quality and luxurious designed products at the most affordable prices.
Our products set out to break the traditional luxury mark-ups while retaining its high quality. These are the values we will strive to pursue to create the best products.
All of our leather goods are made using premium smooth calf leather. Our designs include traditional handmade men’s leather wallets (https://ciceroleather.com/mens-leather-wallets/), handmade leather wallets (https://ciceroleather.com/), front pocket wallets and men’s bifold wallet (https://ciceroleather.com/).
Every item we make is a unique, one of a kind masterpiece. The number one difference that sets Cicero Leather (https://ciceroleather.com/mens-leather-wallets/) high above their competition, we make wallets because we love making people smile.
ENJOY COMPLIMENTARY STANDARD FREE SHIPPING IN THE UNITED STATE OF AMERICA
https://ciceroleather.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/C.png

[tod evans]

^^^^^^^^^^ Piss poor etiquette! ^^^^^^^^

[oyarde]

I was surprised to find out that this new grill (also part of the deck project) was actually made in Texas (Arlington, to be specific)!

https://www.menards.com/main/store/20090519001/items/media/Hardware/GAEGL001_200/ProductLarge/Closedlid-leftview.jpg

I didn't know there were any American grill manufacturers left (that actually manufactured in America, I mean).

It's a nice-looking grill, very sleek.

http://www.savorpro.com/

Thats what I have too .

[PAF]

Do we really need another lesson in comparative advantage?!! Here?!

Buy American if that gives you some satisfaction, but don't fool yourself into thinking you are necessarily helping the economy by doing so.

I usually use the premise that if a product is relatively interchangeable, I'll go with the cheapest (thereby saving my wealth for something else). But if it's something I want to last, I buy the best quality so that I don't have to purchase it again later. The country of origin really doesn't come into play. If you really care about increasing the wealth of this country, you would make wise value judgments at every point in order to maximize your value gain. By doing so, you have increased your wealth.

Of course, if the feeling you get from buying American gives you some false sense of satisfaction, that may be rewarding in and of itself, thereby making it a wise value judgment for you - however, that does little to benefit the aggregate wealth of the country.

+ REP

[specsaregood]

My American made swim in place pool is still going strong all these years later, still gets used every day. I had a couple minor issues due to aging seals but that's expected.
Same with all my other Made in America appliances, nothing but pleased with them.