Telegraph: Shortage of pizzamakers as Italians are "too proud" (Italy)

[Cowlesy]

Further evidence as to why I think it'll be difficult to ever get large swaths of the unemployed back to work rather than scrappy immigrants who will gladly take the jobs.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/10023741/Shortage-of-pizza-makers-as-Italians-are-too-proud.html


Despite a long recession and high unemployment, Italians are shunning the job because of the long hours and modest pay.

But with a slice of pizza an increasingly popular lunch time option in times of economic hardship, the pizza sector is booming - and an estimated 6,000 new "pizzaioili" are needed, according to FIPE, an Italian business federation.

"Notwithstanding the economic crisis and unemployment, it is proving difficult to find them," the association said in a report released this week.

Italians may be reluctant to get their hands dirty by stoking ovens and kneading dough, but foreign immigrants have no such qualms and are now filling the gap, producing an increasing share of the three billion pizzas that Italians eat each year.

Egyptians have shown themselves to be particularly adept at mastering the art of the perfect pizza and now run many of the pizza restaurants and hole-in-the-wall takeaways in big cities like Rome, Milan and Turin.

Jesus. Now even making PIZZA is below some people???

Nothing will be fixed before there is a major crisis and these people experience real discomfort as opposed to the moving sideways that is the gov't dole.

[phill4paul]

Further evidence as to why I think it'll be difficult to ever get large swaths of the unemployed back to work rather than scrappy immigrants who will gladly take the jobs.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/10023741/Shortage-of-pizza-makers-as-Italians-are-too-proud.html



Jesus. Now even making PIZZA is below some people???

Nothing will be fixed before there is a major crisis and these people experience real discomfort as opposed to the moving sideways that is the gov't dole.

And here I am trying to put together a mobile wood-fired oven because all I really want to do in life is attempt the perfect pie and the enjoyment I would get for the reputation and business gain of such an attempt.

[Brian4Liberty]

I don't buy it. Sounds like a pro-cheap-labor-immigration argument. And as usual, are Italians being paid more to not work by the government?

[jclay2]

Further evidence as to why I think it'll be difficult to ever get large swaths of the unemployed back to work rather than scrappy immigrants who will gladly take the jobs.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/10023741/Shortage-of-pizza-makers-as-Italians-are-too-proud.html



Jesus. Now even making PIZZA is below some people???

Nothing will be fixed before there is a major crisis and these people experience real discomfort as opposed to the moving sideways that is the gov't dole.

The only explanation is that they are all on the handout. Why work when you can collect? This really doesn't bode well for the future. There will be a time when all the benefits are called in and all of a sudden that starbucks/pizza/mcdonalds job won't be looking so bad. The issue will be at that point, there will be too much competition and people who actually continued working, despite their emotions, will have the experience to land them the position ahead of the welfare class.

[Brian4Liberty]

I don't buy it. Sounds like a pro-cheap-labor-immigration argument. And as usual, are Italians being paid more to not work by the government?

Let me modify that. If people are paid to not work, they will settle for much less than what they would make working.

[FrankRep]

Jesus. Now even making PIZZA is below some people???

Supply and demand. If people want pizza, pizza will be made.

[squarepusher]

Same thing in America with farm labor, we rely on immigrants to do those jobs.

[tod evans]

There is no better impetus to learn a trade than menial labor.

The idea of being paid to breed is abhorrent!

[Lucille]

Let me modify that. If people are paid to not work, they will settle for much less than what they would make working.

Pathetic how they're not too proud to go on the dole!

[Brian4Liberty]

Egyptians have shown themselves to be particularly adept at mastering the art of the perfect pizza and now run many of the pizza restaurants and hole-in-the-wall takeaways in big cities like Rome, Milan and Turin.

And as was mentioned in the food stamp thread, small food vendors will sign up for government food aid (EBT, food stamps), and then resell that food to customers. Not a bad idea, but it distorts markets. In essence, they are government subsidized businesses, competing with non-subsidized. Apparently this is wide-spread in the US.

[Carson]

The central banks must love this.

The government must be borrowing money from them to help the people that can't afford to work at a loss.

The illegal aliens can afford to work for less because many of their cost like medical and social services are covered by shady business practices and shadier government policies. Those are also subsidized by the central banks.

Isn't it a wonder some of the people that got into office got there and is it getting clearer and clearer who is making out?

[AGRP]

Egyptian pizza...mmmmmm

http://www.indiantravels.com/admin/uploads/Restaurants/634942264133989388_Food_Pizza_Italian_pizza_012868 _.jpg

[paulbot24]

The telegraph might also be gearing up to paint the Italians in an ugly, lazy (think Greece) light before they request massive bailouts and threaten that great European disaster again. While Great Britain may still be using their own currency, they are part of the Eurozone and their economy rises and falls with the Euro, as Nigel Farage so lovingly points out to all who are willing to listen.

[bolil]

http://trialx.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/recipes/Deep-Dish_Pizza-3.jpg

Chicago Pizza. My personal favorite:

http://media1.rblandmark.com/Images/2/2/2348/2/1/2_2_2348_2_1_595x450.jpg

Yeah, we live in Tyranny but our pizza is the shit.

[oyarde]

So you go to Milan , get a slice of pizza made by an Egyptian. Something about that is amusing to me .

[jclay2]

The telegraph might also be gearing up to paint the Italians in an ugly, lazy (think Greece) light before they request massive bailouts and threaten that great European disaster again. While Great Britain may still be using their own currency, they are part of the Eurozone and their economy rises and falls with the Euro, as Nigel Farage so lovingly points out to all who are willing to listen.

Good point. + rep.

[oyarde]

My how times have changed since I was a young man , I remember being in Turin and the only foreigner I saw was me. Now 13 percent of the population , or more is from China , Peru , Romania, etc .It is the industrial center though and companies like that will attract people for work from all over.

[oyarde]

There is an Egyptian museum in Turin :).

[Nirvikalpa]

http://trialx.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/recipes/Deep-Dish_Pizza-3.jpg

Chicago Pizza. My personal favorite:

http://media1.rblandmark.com/Images/2/2/2348/2/1/2_2_2348_2_1_595x450.jpg

Yeah, we live in Tyranny but our pizza is the shit.

Nope.

NYC style pizza is where it's at.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/New_York_Pizza_Slices.png

We may live in tyranny, but our pizza is the shit. And we have Italians that make them! :D

[oyarde]

Reminds me once I was in a place in Broad Ripple, Chinese, it was a sunny Fri afternoon, nobody in the place but myself & my Honey.Food was great , I stopped by the kitchen on the way out to let them know how good I thought it was. Only two guys back there, they were engaged in some argument, one was hispanic , the other dark, lol , not a Chinaman in site.

[heavenlyboy34]

Pathetic how they're not too proud to go on the dole!
Maybe they use something like EBT cards. It doesn't bother the hipsters when they use cards for some reason. /shrugs

[bolil]

Nope.

NYC style pizza is where it's at.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/New_York_Pizza_Slices.png

We may live in tyranny, but our pizza is the shit. And we have Italians that make them! :D


I would put a deep dish slice against whatever NewYork produces ANY DAY. Yeah, Julian calendar and all :). I mean, look at that. A new york slice is like 1/10th of Chicago slice. A new york slice is like an appetizer a Chi town slice is the main course.

[heavenlyboy34]

I would put a deep dish slice against whatever NewYork produces ANY DAY. Yeah, Julian calendar and all :). I mean, look at that. A new york slice is like 1/10th of Chicago slice. A new york slice is like an appetizer a Chi town slice is the main course.
LOL@ big city rivalries. :D

[bolil]

LOL@ big city rivalries. :D

Yeah, the impulse was and will forever be, irresistible.

[amy31416]

I would put a deep dish slice against whatever NewYork produces ANY DAY. Yeah, Julian calendar and all :). I mean, look at that. A new york slice is like 1/10th of Chicago slice. A new york slice is like an appetizer a Chi town slice is the main course.

I've had both. East coast pizza will always win. Chi town deep dish is for fatties sitting around watching da Bears. There is serious science and art going on with East coast pizza--all the way down to the humble yeast, the flour grades, the tomatoes for the sauce, the ovens, the water and even what the cows/buffalo eat who produce the milk that makes the mozz. And working the dough like they do? Absolutely masterful.

If you can reproduce a hardcore NYC slice, you've worked for YEARS perfecting that skill. Chicago? Not so much. Put as much as you can in a big pan and bake it.

Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffft.

[bolil]

I've had both. East coast pizza will always win. Chi town deep dish is for fatties sitting around watching da Bears. There is serious science and art going on with East coast pizza--all the way down to the humble yeast, the flour grades, the tomatoes for the sauce, the ovens, the water and even what the cows/buffalo eat who produce the milk that makes the mozz. And working the dough like they do? Absolutely masterful.

If you can reproduce a hardcore NYC slice, you've worked for YEARS perfecting that skill. Chicago? Not so much. Put as much as you can in a big pan and bake it.

Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffft.


Meh, yeah but I only consider the opinions of people with taste. Hail, Krugman de la Pizza. I will put my cities best slice against the world, and I will win. A good east coast pizza is like a good super model: Thin, attractive, and altogether unsubstantial.

Comparing East Coast 'pizza' with the Chicago Deepdish is like comparing film photography with digital. Digital might look good, but it lacks authenticity. It can be manipulated by any joe with photoshop, or to keep the cheesy metaphor rolling, a rolling pin. A big ass, heavy, flavor slaying, rolling pin.

[amy31416]

Meh, yeah but I only consider the opinions of people with taste. Hail, Krugman de la Pizza. I will put my cities best slice against the world, and I will win. A good east coast pizza is like a good super model: Thin, attractive, and altogether unsubstantial.

Comparing East Coast 'pizza' with the Chicago Deepdish is like comparing film photography with digital. Digital might look good, but it lacks authenticity. It can be manipulated by any joe with photoshop, or to keep the cheesy metaphor rolling, a rolling pin. A big ass, heavy, flavor slaying, rolling pin.

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT! YOU KNOW NAUGHT OF WHICH YOU SPEAK AS EVIDENCED BY MY AUTHORITATIVE CAPS LOCK POST! CHICAGO "PIZZA" IS FOR WEENIES!

[amy31416]

Meh, yeah but I only consider the opinions of people with taste. Hail, Krugman de la Pizza. I will put my cities best slice against the world, and I will win. A good east coast pizza is like a good super model: Thin, attractive, and altogether unsubstantial.

Comparing East Coast 'pizza' with the Chicago Deepdish is like comparing film photography with digital. Digital might look good, but it lacks authenticity. It can be manipulated by any joe with photoshop, or to keep the cheesy metaphor rolling, a rolling pin. A big ass, heavy, flavor slaying, rolling pin.

AND THEY DON'T USE ROLLING PINS, FOR THE LOVE OF MARY!!!!!

[bolil]

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT! YOU KNOW NAUGHT OF WHICH YOU SPEAK AS EVIDENCED BY MY AUTHORITATIVE CAPS LOCK POST! CHICAGO "PIZZA" IS FOR WEENIES!

I surrender, your use of teh caps lock has shown me the error of my ways. Long live flavorless thin ass pizza!

;)

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I cook my own pizza, it's cheaper. Do you really need someone to throw sauce and cheese on top of dough? It's like going to a diner for a grilled cheese.

[squarepusher]

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT! YOU KNOW NAUGHT OF WHICH YOU SPEAK AS EVIDENCED BY MY AUTHORITATIVE CAPS LOCK POST! CHICAGO "PIZZA" IS FOR WEENIES!

argument won /thread lock please

[tod evans]

I've eaten NY and Chicago pizza's in both cities at "real"(read non-commercialized) pizza joints owned and operated by 2nd maybe 3rd generation Italians..

I enjoy both styles!

But I've gotta say thin crust/homemade sauce-n-mozz gets the prize in my book..

[thoughtomator]

"Chicago pizza" is really more like "pizza pastry" than actual pizza.

If your pizza doesn't talk with a Brooklyn accent, it's not really pizza.

[Demigod]

I think that this is just a populist headline which just goes into the whole headset that Southern Europeans are lazy and that Eastern Europeans are Orks .Never mind that Southern Europe is being sucked dry so that French,German,UK banks won't fail and with them tank their entire economies.The Greeks have been put on the wall of shame for years now for their fiscal situation ( which is totally their fault ) while at the time they are forced to buy weapons from Germany and France whose price is in the billions so they can get loans to pay back the old loans.And the new loans have higher interests than the old ones.

[phill4paul]

http://www.epicportions.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/frankenweber4.jpg

http://www.epicportions.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/frankenweber5.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RLC-SIGpZkE

http://www.epicportions.com/2010/03/25/the-frankenweber/

[HOLLYWOOD]

American Migrant workers in Forced Labor Italian Pizzerias

http://www.splashnewsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/spl279277_003-wm900.jpg (http://www.splashnewsonline.com/2011-05-19/the-ten-best-photos-youll-see-all-day-8/spl279277_003-wm900-jpg/)
http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/bg/Ronnie+Ortiz+Magro+Jersey+Shore+Pizza+Challange+2k r7HZHjBIel.jpg (http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/Tmq0yxrWUbW/Jersey+Shore+Pizza+Challange/2kr7HZHjBIe/Ronnie+Ortiz-Magro)http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l84padVfNN1qcpk98o1_500.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=Ue0UXNkD_s5jfM&tbnid=ek3y1s8TPc17RM:&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgunsgermsandsmoke.tumblr.com%2Fpo st%2F1053935495%2Fyay-pizza&ei=5H1-UZ2YHozQigLSkYGwCw&bvm=bv.45645796,d.cGE&psig=AFQjCNEC_A6W4ncxFJwUf-YkJngH0vkEhA&ust=1367330660883780)

[BAllen]

I don't buy it. Sounds like a pro-cheap-labor-immigration argument. And as usual, are Italians being paid more to not work by the government?

I don't, either.

[Athan]

Wow. 4 pages and no one has said "Cowabunga, dude!" on a dedicated pizza post.
80's crew you have failed me.

[fisharmor]

We may live in tyranny, but our pizza is the shit.

So the thing I've learned from this thread....
All the messing around I do with my dough and cheeses and stuff is irrelevant. What I really need to make a great pizza is some tyranny.

(And by the way, there's better pizza getting served in Penn Station than there is in Chicago.)

[angelatc]

Further evidence as to why I think it'll be difficult to ever get large swaths of the unemployed back to work rather than scrappy immigrants who will gladly take the jobs.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/10023741/Shortage-of-pizza-makers-as-Italians-are-too-proud.html



Jesus. Now even making PIZZA is below some people???

Nothing will be fixed before there is a major crisis and these people experience real discomfort as opposed to the moving sideways that is the gov't dole.

I play an online game occasionally, and one of my cyber-friends works at a gas station. She has been there for years - trained managers who went on to become vice presidents. Been robbed at gun point, tackled shoplifters, and is just generally what I would think most people would value in an employee. She's dependable, responsible, friendly, and cheerful - loves her regular customers to death.

She always sounds apologetic when she tells people what she does for a living. It drives me nuts. Apparently, while I was working, society has decided there's no shame on living on the dole, but there are plenty of jobs that are beneath people. "I ain't flippin' no burgers!"

As an aside, the owner of the McDonalds in my small town offers tuition reimbursement to his employees. He rarely has to post a "help wanted" sign.

[angelatc]

I would put a deep dish slice against whatever NewYork produces ANY DAY. Yeah, Julian calendar and all :). I mean, look at that. A new york slice is like 1/10th of Chicago slice. A new york slice is like an appetizer a Chi town slice is the main course.


You should consider yourself lucky that I do not give negative rep. :D

[tod evans]

You should consider yourself lucky that I do not give negative rep. :D

Aw now...........

Some folks like such things as pineapple or bacon on their pie...........Blech!

[HOLLYWOOD]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj71p9fco81qiopj9o1_500.gif (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=bvbnCZDeWk9CbM&tbnid=Ox8fI5DA8ipH1M:&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tumblr.com%2Ftagged%2Fbacktot hejerseyshore&ei=5H1-UZ2YHozQigLSkYGwCw&bvm=bv.45645796,d.cGE&psig=AFQjCNEC_A6W4ncxFJwUf-YkJngH0vkEhA&ust=1367330660883780)

[amy31416]

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