Rent Seeking Koch Brothers

[pathtofreedom]

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/03/01/146847/charles-koch-welfare/?mobile=nc
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/09/10/819541/charles-koch-wsj/
http://observer.com/2010/09/7-ways-the-koch-bros-benefit-from-corporate-welfare/
http://exiledonline.com/a-people-history-of-koch-industries-part-ii-libertarian-billionaires-charles-and-david-koch-are-closetcase-subsidy-kings-who-milk-big-government-tyranny-but-want-to-slash-spending-on-anyone-else/
In my view certain things are unavoidable and everybody in one way or another has received a government subsidy but that doesn't mean you need to actively rent seek or make your livelihood from government while at the same time preaching a anti-government philosophy.

[angelatc]

Yes, you really do. Otherwise you can't compete with the people who don't hesitate to do it.

If the government is handing your competitors 5 billion a year, and you turn it down, who will have lower prices?

Bashing the Koch brothers is counter-productive, and does nothing to further our political cause. And this is just a symptom of the liberal bullshit. They didn't mind having pro-life and pro-gun Democrats in their ranks until they got the party strong enough to survive without them. Only then did they begin their purge of undesirables.

[FrankRep]

According to ThinkProgress, Ron Paul is racist.

Would you like to still use this news source?



Ron Paul: 95 percent of black men are ‘criminal.’ (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2007/12/26/18515/ron-paul-95-percent-of-black-men-are-criminal/)

ThinkProgress
Dec 26, 2007

[pathtofreedom]

Thomas Woods on it
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mer09FiICow
Koch Brothers are not allies. Rent Seeking is still rent seeking. Corrupt corporatists are not going to fix a corrupt system.

[FrankRep]

Thomas Woods on it
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mer09FiICow
Koch Brothers are not allies. Rent Seeking is still rent seeking. Corrupt corporatists are not going to fix a corrupt system.

Did you know the David Koch was the Libertarian candidate in 1980?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pBW47hlCSsI/ULzOZToGdkI/AAAAAAAA0n0/JqVBxNWtBDA/s1600/EdClarkDavidKoch.jpg



In Defense of the Kochtopus (http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2010/08/29/in-defense-of-the-kochtopus/)

Antiwar.com
August 30, 2010

[talkingpointes]

I love the the Koch brothers. If there is one name that can twist the panties of leftist. These two guys practically noone knows anything about - yet, with all the proof of how much welfare buffet get's - these are the evil guys!!!

Same as Rockefeller, even though we all now know he almost single handedly with his business ended whale, and walrus hunting for oil. Yet, he's a greedy douche.

[FrankRep]

Plus,

The Koch Brothers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_H._Koch) help fund Americans for Prosperity, FreedomWorks, and the Cato Institute.


Remember Julie Borowski (aka: Token Libertarian Girl)?


http://www.freedomworks.org/files/imagecache/full/Julie_Borowski.jpg



Julie Borowski (http://www.freedomworks.org/julie-borowski) is a Policy Analyst at FreedomWorks. She first joined FreedomWorks as an Economic Research and Policy Intern in Spring 2010. Upon graduating Magna Cum Laude from Frostburg State University, she returned to FreedomWorks.

Previously, she was selected to be a Charles G. Koch Summer Fellow with the Institute for Humane Studies where she interned at the Center for Competitive Politics. Most recently, she was a government affairs associate at Americans for Tax Reform.

Due to her college economics classes, she developed a passion for the Austrian School of Economics. She served as Vice President and Treasurer of her Maryland Student Legislation delegation and remains active in Students for Liberty and Young Americans for Liberty. She has volunteered for political candidates in Kentucky and in her home state of Maryland. Her writings on various topics have appeared in numerous blogs and newspapers.

[talkingpointes]

Plus,

The Koch Brothers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_H._Koch) help fund Americans for Prosperity, FreedomWorks, and the Cato Institute.


Remember Julie Borowski (aka: Token Libertarian Girl)?


http://www.freedomworks.org/files/imagecache/full/Julie_Borowski.jpg



Julie Borowski (http://www.freedomworks.org/julie-borowski) is a Policy Analyst at FreedomWorks. She first joined FreedomWorks as an Economic Research and Policy Intern in Spring 2010. Upon graduating Magna Cum Laude from Frostburg State University, she returned to FreedomWorks.

Previously, she was selected to be a Charles G. Koch Summer Fellow with the Institute for Humane Studies where she interned at the Center for Competitive Politics. Most recently, she was a government affairs associate at Americans for Tax Reform.

Due to her college economics classes, she developed a passion for the Austrian School of Economics. She served as Vice President and Treasurer of her Maryland Student Legislation delegation and remains active in Students for Liberty and Young Americans for Liberty. She has volunteered for political candidates in Kentucky and in her home state of Maryland. Her writings on various topics have appeared in numerous blogs and newspapers.

Great another stupid, bigoted, Koch-head. Dumb, dumb - these guys aren't business men, they're welfare queens, I swear I'm not lying. These people have like 50,000 employees that are really just slaves. GOsh guys I'm serial.

[compromise]

http://www.fsunews.com/article/20110530/FSVIEW/110529009/FSU-students-get-Koch-ed-out

"The so-called 'Students for Diversity in Education' have continuously censored any opinions differing from their groups' pro-Koch line," said Patrick Shepherd, an FSU alumus. "Understandably, many students involved with YAL and ideologically similar groups on campus support their 'strategic partners' [as Koch-funded groups are referred to on their website] in this scandal. It is disconcerting though, to see a group flagrantly deny open discourse on the issue."

Shepherd has not been the only student to criticize the fact that many of the students affiliated with the group are also connected to Young Americans for Liberty (YAL), a libertarian campus RSO. YAL, a national organization formed in 2008 as an offshoot of Students for Ron Paul, lists four Koch-funded organizations as strategic partners on their official website, including the Mercatus Center at George Mason University.

"YAL has nothing to do with this on any level--not local, state or national; in my capacity as an organizer for this group, I am not affiliated with YAL," said O'Sullivan, who was elected as president of FSU YAL in 2010. "I started a group separate from the YAL group with the goal of defending the economics department--of which I am a student. [Anything] that happens to the economics department affects me, so that is where my interest lies."

O'Sullivan said that changing the direction of the discussion is not done with the best intentions.

"Their obsession with my personal affiliation with YAL--and the subsequent, erroneous claim of some link between me, the YAL national organization and the Koch Foundation--underscores the deeply political nature of this attack," O'Sullivan said. "They've tried to change the conversation to something completely false, irrelevant, and solely political in nature."

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/koch-industries-denies-funding-freedomworks

Yes, FreedomWorks AND Americans for Prosperity gave their names and their money to events supporting the tea parties. Let's start with Ohio.

There was an event at Ohio State University earlier this year, featuring Ron Paul and Judge Andrew Napolitano, who was taping a segment of his Freedom Watch show for Fox News. The entire event is online on the Freedom Watch archive page.

The event was put on by the Young Americans for Liberty at Ohio State. Their March, 2010 quarterly report is online at the IRS website, and has the following organizational donor detail*:

Ohio Freedom Alliance: $1,000
WethePeopleUnderGod.com: $1000
Americans for Prosperity - Ohio: $1,000
Ohio Liberty Council: $3,000
University of Cincinnati: $1,000
Jacob Group,CPAs, LLC: $1,000
Out of $11,150 received, these six donors represent 72% of the total, and one of those donors is Americans for Prosperity. A visit to the Ron Paul Ohio website lists those donors as co-sponsors. A visit to the Liberty Alliance Ohio site confirms their role as a tea party organizer. (They're also publicizing the 2nd Amendment scary march on Washington, DC, but that's another story for another day).

Young Americans for Liberty is currently taking on "health care nullification", falling into lockstep with this month's tea party theme.

WethePeopleUnderGod.com is the requisite religious right representative. They organize prayer and bus trips. They describe themselves this way:

We are a concerned group of citizens who feel that we have lost sight of the true meaning of representative government (government by the people,of the people and for the people).

And on the side they list their contact info:

Freedom Institute

PO Box 386

Dayton,Ohio 45419

And when I tried to dig deeper, I was able to reverse-trace the listed number to Joyce Brownell, who is listed as one of the organizers for...yes, that's right, the Campaign for Liberty tea party protests in Washington DC.

Another cosponsor (though no contributions are listed on the report) is The Leadership Institute masquerading as CampusReform.org. The Leadership Institute is Morton Blackwell's project. On the front page, they advertise the DC Freedom 5K on April 17, 2010.

The DC Freedom 5K, an event hosted by Americans for Prosperity and the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation, is a 3.1 mile race for all ages to celebrate freedom in a fun, nontraditional environment.

I could have stopped at the point where Americans for Prosperity was a donor, but I want this to be clear: Whether it's Ron Paul or Sarah Palin or tea parties or gun protests or health care protests or fun races for the family, the backbone is crafted from the same DNA. That DNA includes funding -- direct or indirect -- from the Koch brothers. They birthed Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks. They didn't have to write the check to the Ohio State Young Americans for Liberty to be intimately involved in funding, sponsoring, indoctrinating and fomenting tea parties.

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cid=N00030836&cycle=2012&type=I&newMem=N&recs=100


Top 100 Contributors
Senator Rand Paul 2007 - 2012

Rank Contributor Total Indivs PACs
1 Club for Growth $106,515 $106,515 $0
2 Alliance Resource Partners $40,650 $40,650 $0
3 Senate Conservatives Fund $36,685 $31,685 $5,000
4 Corriente Advisors $24,200 $24,200 $0
5 Koch Industries $17,000 $12,000 $5,000

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cycle=2012&cid=N00031938&type=I


Top 20 Contributors
Representative Justin Amash 2011 - 2012

Rank Contributor Total Indivs PACs
1 Amway/Alticor Inc $31,000 $30,000 $1,000
2 Michigan Industrial Tools $30,000 $30,000 $0
3 S Abraham & Sons $21,250 $21,250 $0
4 Windquest Group $15,200 $15,200 $0
5 Davis-Lynch Inc $12,500 $12,500 $0
5 Wolverine Gas & Oil $12,500 $12,500 $0
7 Betz Industries $11,000 $11,000 $0
8 Fred L Hansen Corp $10,750 $10,750 $0
9 Adtegrity.Com $10,500 $10,500 $0
10 Wolverine World Wide $10,300 $10,300 $0
11 Bank of America $10,250 $10,250 $0
12 Anesthesia Medical $10,050 $10,050 $0
13 Autocam Corp $10,000 $10,000 $0
13 Chandler Management Corp$10,000 $10,000 $0
13 Flexfab Horizons $10,000 $10,000 $0
13 Huntington Bancshares $10,000 $0 $10,000
13 Koch Industries $10,000 $0 $10,000



Top 20 Contributors
Representative Thomas Massie 2011 - 2012

Rank Contributor Total Indivs PACs
1 Club for Growth $118,057 $118,057 $0
2 Young Americans for Liberty$15,100 $14,500 $600
3 Alliance Resource Partners $15,000 $0 $15,000
3 Masimo Corp $15,000 $5,000 $10,000
5 Bavarian Waste $14,500 $14,500 $0
6 Saminco Inc $12,500 $12,500 $0
7 Bluegrass Cmte $10,000 $0 $10,000
7 Credit Union National Assn $10,000 $0 $10,000
7 Every Republican is Crucial $10,000 $0 $10,000
7 Koch Industries $10,000 $0 $10,000

The Koch's didn't like Ron, but they like more moderate people like YAL, Amash and Rand.

[talkingpointes]

http://www.fsunews.com/article/20110530/FSVIEW/110529009/FSU-students-get-Koch-ed-out


http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/koch-industries-denies-funding-freedomworks

Yet the see no problem with soros, and buffet. Fuck these people. Just like their policy, it's ok when they do it. Personally I have no problems with corporations giving infinite support to candidates because then it WOULD REVEAL THEM INSTANTLY. Imagine if Obama didn't have all the individual support and 2-5% of his overall donations came directly from Goldman Sachs, then we wouldn't have to debate it. They use the current system because of the massive numbers of donors they have plausible deniability. And considering the other side is getting usually the same amount of money from the same people.

[talkingpointes]

Holy jesus christ Koch industries makes more then all the other American oil companies put together Exxon, Mobil, Chevron etc. 115 billion compared to exxons 6 billion.

[FrankRep]

Great another stupid, bigoted, Koch-head. Dumb, dumb - these guys aren't business men, they're welfare queens, I swear I'm not lying. These people have like 50,000 employees that are really just slaves. GOsh guys I'm serial.

Did you just call Julie Borowski (aka: Token Libertarian Girl) a stupid, bigoted, Koch-head?

Seriously?

[FrankRep]

The Koch's didn't like Ron, but they like more moderate people like YAL, Amash and Rand.

Excellent thing to point out.

The Koch brothers support people like Rand Paul.

[compromise]

Did you just call Julie Borowski (aka: Token Libertarian Girl) a stupid, bigoted, Koch-head?

Seriously?

I think it was sarcasm.

[FrankRep]

I think it was sarcasm.

With the Koch bashing on the forum, it's hard to tell who's joking or being sarcastic.

[talkingpointes]

Did you just call Julie Borowski (aka: Token Libertarian Girl) a stupid, bigoted, Koch-head?

Seriously?

Frank, I was being sarcastic. Didn't you read what I first wrote?

[FrankRep]

Frank, I was being sarcastic. Didn't you read what I first wrote?

My mistake. I overlooked your previous post.

[pathtofreedom]

Just because they provide funding for a cause that you like doesn't mean they are necessarily friends. They are still part of the ruling class and anything they do is only for their own benefit. Why are people who regularly violate their own philosophy and only exist because they do so some how an ally of freedom? Ron Paul didn't get a dime from them so why do other people need money from them? It would be wise distance one self from them because they make the movement look bad.

[Cowlesy]

Just because they provide funding for a cause that you like doesn't mean they are necessarily friends. They are still part of the ruling class and anything they do is only for their own benefit. Why are people who regularly violate their own philosophy and only exist because they do so some how an ally of freedom? Ron Paul didn't get a dime from them so why do other people need money from them? It would be wise distance one self from them because they make the movement look bad.

Because things are not always as straightforward as they seem.

So the Koch's didn't financially support Ron Paul's run for the presidency. So what? Ron is also great friends with Lew Rockwell, who I am pretty sure publicly hates the Koch's for the whole Rothbard matter in the 1980's/1990's and Cato.

But then, we have them supporting with max donations Rand Paul, Justin Amash and Thomas Massie. Frickin...high-fives to Charles and David!

I am sure they have lobbyists in DC just like every single other big company lobbying for rules/regs that are advantageous to their bottom line. But look at how they support our up-and-comers like a Julie Borowski. There's no big financial homerun for them for doing that, but it's the right thing to do.

One thing the left and their people are good at, is shaping a dialogue so that supporting the opposing point of view is practically inconceivable. Oooh the "evil Koch Brothers." Hey, they are supporting liberty candidates and liberty organizations.

Want to hate on rich companies that are anti-liberty? Why don't you go after Jeff Immelt and General Electric. Why don't you talk to the SEIU/AFT/UAW who spend more money on lobbying/elections than the Koch's could hope to spend?

The Koch Brothers as the 'Satan's Incarnate' of corporate greed and grift is ridiculous in comparison to what happens on the left.

[pathtofreedom]

Because things are not always as straightforward as they seem.

So the Koch's didn't financially support Ron Paul's run for the presidency. So what? Ron is also great friends with Lew Rockwell, who I am pretty sure publicly hates the Koch's for the whole Rothbard matter in the 1980's/1990's and Cato.

But then, we have them supporting with max donations Rand Paul, Justin Amash and Thomas Massie. Frickin...high-fives to Charles and David!


I am sure they have lobbyists in DC just like every single other big company lobbying for rules/regs that are advantageous to their bottom line. But look at how they support our up-and-comers like a Julie Borowski. There's no big financial homerun for them for doing that, but it's the right thing to do.

One thing the left and their people are good at, is shaping a dialogue so that supporting the opposing point of view is practically inconceivable. Oooh the "evil Koch Brothers." Hey, they are supporting liberty candidates and liberty organizations.

Want to hate on rich companies that are anti-liberty? Why don't you go after Jeff Immelt and General Electric. Why don't you talk to the SEIU/AFT/UAW who spend more money on lobbying/elections than the Koch's could hope to spend?

The Koch Brothers as the 'Satan's Incarnate' of corporate greed and grift is ridiculous in comparison to what happens on the left.
I never said the kochs were satan incarnate I simply said they are rent seekers and hypocrites. Which they are. Also I get tired of this knee jerk reaction to criticisms of Koch Brothers which is to say well the other guys are just as bad. Just because I dislike the Koch doesn't mean I like the other guys. In the case of leftists at least they are honest about it their philosophy would tell them that what they are doing is for the "common good" where are the philosopy of the kochs would say their actions are evil and big government. I don't like anyone in the ruling class. None of them are friends. Supporting things you like doesn't make them friends

[Cowlesy]

I never said the kochs were satan incarnate I simply said they are rent seekers and hypocrites. Which they are. Also I get tired of this knee jerk reaction to criticisms of Koch Brothers which is to say well the other guys are just as bad. Just because I dislike the Koch doesn't mean I like the other guys. In the case of leftists at least they are honest about it their philosophy would tell them that what they are doing is for the "common good" where are the philosopy of the kochs would say their actions are evil and big government. I don't like anyone in the ruling class. None of them are friends. Supporting things you like doesn't make them friends

The leftists are not honest about their philosophy telling them that what they're doing is for the "common good." They are not "for the people" with their Totalitarian Humanism. They're about as dishonest as you can get, *AND* what's worse as they hide behind doing it for "the 99%." Oh, the aggrieved victims that are "The Left."

Communism, Nazism and Maoism killed how many people in the last century? The answer is, a hell of a lot more than Koch Brothers' milquetoast libertarianism.

Horse-hockey, The Left is the worst of the worst when it comes to Statism and Authoritarianism.

[compromise]

The leftists are not honest about their philosophy telling them that what they're doing is for the "common good." They are not "for the people" with their Totalitarian Humanism. They're about as dishonest as you can get, *AND* what's worse as they hide behind doing it for "the 99%." Oh, the aggrieved victims that are "The Left."

Communism, Nazism and Maoism killed how many people in the last century? The answer is, a hell of a lot more than Koch Brothers' milquetoast libertarianism.

Horse-hockey, The Left is the worst of the worst when it comes to Statism and Authoritarianism.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cowlesy again.

Thanks for telling the truth about the left. The radical left are NOT part of the liberty movement.

[pathtofreedom]

The leftists are not honest about their philosophy telling them that what they're doing is for the "common good." They are not "for the people" with their Totalitarian Humanism. They're about as dishonest as you can get, *AND* what's worse as they hide behind doing it for "the 99%." Oh, the aggrieved victims that are "The Left."

Communism, Nazism and Maoism killed how many people in the last century? The answer is, a hell of a lot more than Koch Brothers' milquetoast libertarianism.

Horse-hockey, The Left is the worst of the worst when it comes to Statism and Authoritarianism.
That's just it they aren't hiding behind they honestly think that giving subsidies to corporations they like is good even if it really isn't. They certainly are control freaks but I would not compare them to nazis or communists.

[Cowlesy]

That's just it they aren't hiding behind they honestly think that giving subsidies to corporations they like is good even if it really isn't. They certainly are control freaks but I would not compare them to nazis or communists.

I think it's a great comparison. Few things are as dangerous as those who zealously believe in the equality of outcomes. It is fundamentally immoral.

[heavenlyboy34]

I think it's a great comparison. Few things are as dangerous as those who zealously believe in the equality of outcomes. It is fundamentally immoral.
What makes you think the Nazis believed in equality of outcomes? :eek:

[pathtofreedom]

I think it's a great comparison. Few things are as dangerous as those who zealously believe in the equality of outcomes. It is fundamentally immoral.
A more equal society wouldn't be so bad. A small percentage of the population owning the majority of resources and wealth is not a good thing. The great numbers of poverty, hungry, and unemployed is not a good thing. That being said the Rich are super rich thanks to government and forcibly redistributing wealth will not solve the problem. The problem is a result of the Command economy that the US has.

[FrankRep]

A more equal society wouldn't be so bad. A small percentage of the population owning the majority of resources and wealth is not a good thing. The great numbers of poverty, hungry, and unemployed is not a good thing. That being said the Rich are super rich thanks to government and forcibly redistributing wealth will not solve the problem. The problem is a result of the Command economy that the US has.

A "more equal" society requires bigger government for redistribution of wealth. You realize that, right?

[pathtofreedom]

A "more equal" society requires bigger government for redistribution of wealth. You realize that, right?
Not at all. The government steals vast amounts of wealth from people. All governments across the nation are running huge surpluses. That money in CAFRS should be given back to people to spend. Also government protects existing businesses through subsidies, bailouts, targeted tax breaks, and so on.

[One Last Battle!]

They basically chucked Murray Rothbard out the door and are responsible for the creation of those "beltway libertarians" that sell us out for every good thing they back. No thanks.

[FrankRep]

Not at all. The government steals vast amounts of wealth from people. All governments across the nation are running huge surpluses. That money in CAFRS should be given back to people to spend. Also government protects existing businesses through subsidies, bailouts, targeted tax breaks, and so on.

Equality doesn't exist in free, capitalist countries. You will have rich and poor people.

[pathtofreedom]

Equality doesn't exist in free, capitalist countries. You will have rich and poor people.
I meant more wealth in greater numbers of hands which is perfectly possible. The government stealing most wealth and handing out wealth to the rich

[Seraphim]

It's the opposite.

Free markets lead to the most equality. The (RELATIVE) equality is earned and peaceful.

Socialism stratifies society in such a complete way, it's astounding the voter socialist/commies/fascists don't see it.

It just so happens that 99.9% are left "equally poor/miserable" while the truly upper echelon live with golden toilet seats.

I'm sure you are aware of this already. Refinement is all; if we are to win debates witht he aforementioned socialist types, having clear cut explanations is superior to obfuscated terms such as "equality" and "socialism".

:)



A "more equal" society requires bigger government for redistribution of wealth. You realize that, right?