School Vouchers Are a bad Idea

[pathtofreedom]

1. Vouchers are corporatism - Public money given to private institutions is no different than corporatism its just localized. But is corporatism no less. Public private partnerships are stupid and essentially privatizes gains and socialize losses and thus people will say see "privatization" failed.
2. The government still has control - Because schools would have to get money from the government they still have to do and teach what the government wants. The government still has precedence to teach fake history and indoctrinate people to its agenda.
3. Government drives up cost - Government for whatever reason drives up the cost of whatever it touches and this evidenced by government universities and student loans.
The solution is not vouchers but getting the government completely out of education. No more public schools, licenses, government money or anything. People in a free society could afford school or other forms of education such as online school, catholic schools, charitable schools or home school could offer people access to education.

[KrokHead]

You have good arguments. I support vouchers, but there is the chance that all private schools will get plagued by the same problems as public school. People should just vote down the budget, but even contingency budgets are outrageous.

[Melissa]

I am for vouchers...But I really really wish number 2 would not be the case..No strings at all..The good/news bad news for me is the private school that my daughter attends does not take the voucher for that very reason..So I must pay for her school and an empty seat...And if we could achieve the last part that government out of school..that would be blissful...but till then I am for vouchers..

[tttppp]

Make school private and online and almost everyone could afford good education.

[dannno]

Vouchers > What we have

Vouchers /= The best solution to the problem

[angelatc]

The vouchers as corporatism argument certainly has merit. If we could keep the feds out of it, I wouldn't worry so much about it though.

[Danan]

Corporatism is still a lot better than socialism, though.

[Keith and stuff]

Vouchers have a lot of problems. Tax credits for businesses are much better. That way, it isn't government money. It's especially good if 3rd party groups control the programs.

[HigherVision]

The solution is not vouchers but getting the government completely out of education. No more public schools, licenses, government money or anything.

Which will not happen, so vouchers is the way to go.

[talkingpointes]

Granted vouchers do exactly what you say... I watched first hand what happens when kids have choices. In Seattle,Wa they didn't do vouchers but they had a low student count for high schools in 08' (phoenix has 45 high schools seattle 7-10) so they allowed the students and parents pick the schools. ALL of the ghetto schools shuddered that summer and a war started in august over what people felt was racism. (the good schools happened to be in predominantly rich white nieghborhoods)

This I hope was a real wake up call to all the shitty teachers and school administrators. They are all still in public schools, but having a ultimatum is that much closer to having a choice.

From the socialist shitheads.
http://socialistworker.org/2006-1/591/591_11_Seattle.shtml

[pathtofreedom]

Which will not happen, so vouchers is the way to go.
Well vouchers haven't really been implemented widely so what is your point?

[XTreat]

Vouchers > What we have

Vouchers /= The best solution to the problem


I agree and I think vouchers are the best gateway to totally private education.

[Matt Collins]

Are Vouchers the Solution for Our Failing Public Schools? - by Rep. Ron Paul, MD
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul132.html
Do Vouchers and Tax Credits Increase Private School Regulation?
http://www.cato.org/publications/working-paper/do-vouchers-tax-credits-increase-private-school-regulation
Tax Credits Better for Schools Than Vouchers
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/tax-credits-better-schools-vouchers
School Vouchers vs. Tax Credits
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/school-vouchers-vs-tax-credits/
Tax Credits, Not Vouchers, Are Keeping School Choice a Viable Option
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/tax-credits-not-vouchers-are-keeping-school-choice-viable-option
Why Federal School Vouchers Are a Bad Idea
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/why-federal-school-vouchers-are-bad-idea
Vouchers ARE Government Money, and That’s the Problem
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/vouchers-are-government-money-and-that%E2%80%99s-the-problem/
Toward Market Education: Are Vouchers or Tax Credits the Better Path?
http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/toward-market-education-are-vouchers-or-tax-credits-better-path
Vouchers and Educational Freedom: A Debate
https://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-269es.html
Trouble with Vouchers
http://mises.org/daily/507/
Vouchers: Another Central Plan
http://mises.org/daily/1399
Vouchers: Another Income Redistribution Scheme
http://mises.org/daily/1726
Voucher Socialism
http://mises.org/daily/260
Vouchers: Enemy of Religion
http://mises.org/daily/106
Vouchers Are Not Libertarian
http://www.lewrockwell.com/huebert/huebert33.1.html
EDUCATION: RETHINKING "CHOICE"
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch10.html
Just Say No to School Vouchers . . . Again
http://lewrockwell.com/north/north999.html
The School Voucher Myth
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/huebert3.html
Vouchers: Another Name for Welfare
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/voucher2.html
Tax Credits, Not Vouchers
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dieteman/dieteman86.html
Vouchers and Government Control
http://www.lewrockwell.com/yates/yates58.html
The Great Voucher Fraud
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance38.html

[Keith and stuff]

I know this for certain, only statists support vouchers.

[XTreat]

Are Vouchers the Solution for Our Failing Public Schools? - by Rep. Ron Paul, MD
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul132.html
Do Vouchers and Tax Credits Increase Private School Regulation?
http://www.cato.org/publications/working-paper/do-vouchers-tax-credits-increase-private-school-regulation
Tax Credits Better for Schools Than Vouchers
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/tax-credits-better-schools-vouchers
School Vouchers vs. Tax Credits
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/school-vouchers-vs-tax-credits/
Tax Credits, Not Vouchers, Are Keeping School Choice a Viable Option
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/tax-credits-not-vouchers-are-keeping-school-choice-viable-option
Why Federal School Vouchers Are a Bad Idea
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/why-federal-school-vouchers-are-bad-idea
Vouchers ARE Government Money, and That’s the Problem
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/vouchers-are-government-money-and-that%E2%80%99s-the-problem/
Toward Market Education: Are Vouchers or Tax Credits the Better Path?
http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/toward-market-education-are-vouchers-or-tax-credits-better-path
Vouchers and Educational Freedom: A Debate
https://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-269es.html
Trouble with Vouchers
http://mises.org/daily/507/
Vouchers: Another Central Plan
http://mises.org/daily/1399
Vouchers: Another Income Redistribution Scheme
http://mises.org/daily/1726
Voucher Socialism
http://mises.org/daily/260
Vouchers: Enemy of Religion
http://mises.org/daily/106
Vouchers Are Not Libertarian
http://www.lewrockwell.com/huebert/huebert33.1.html
EDUCATION: RETHINKING "CHOICE"
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch10.html
Just Say No to School Vouchers . . . Again
http://lewrockwell.com/north/north999.html
The School Voucher Myth
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/huebert3.html
Vouchers: Another Name for Welfare
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/voucher2.html
Tax Credits, Not Vouchers
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dieteman/dieteman86.html
Vouchers and Government Control
http://www.lewrockwell.com/yates/yates58.html
The Great Voucher Fraud
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance38.html

Most of these articles are discussing federal vouchers. I don't think anyone here is advocating that.

I do think however a tax credit (at all levels) for not using public school would be more effective now that I have looked at it though. Thanks for putting this together.

[The Free Hornet]

Most of these articles are discussing federal vouchers. I don't think anyone here is advocating that.

I do think however a tax credit (at all levels) for not using public school would be more effective now that I have looked at it though. Thanks for putting this together.

I don't have kids and, thus, wouldn't be eligible for that tax credit (despite "not using public school"). If the total number of kids in the public system remains the same, I'll pay MORE in taxes to account for those getting a credit.

Why should I support it? (/devilsadvocate)

I do support it as home/private/charter schooling is likely to lower the net burden as well as threaten the public monopoly but that only assumes the credit alters behavior instead of just rewarding it.

[TonySutton]

I see vouchers as a gateway to competition. I look at them like a bridge. I don't want to stand on the bridge forever but it is a great help in getting me from a crappy place to a place I want to be.

[erowe1]

I don't have kids and, thus, wouldn't be eligible for that tax credit (despite "not using public school"). If the total number of kids in the public system remains the same, I'll pay MORE in taxes to account for those getting a credit.


I think ideally, the credit would be what you would have paid to educate those kids if they went to public school. So it should be a wash for you.

[erowe1]

I see vouchers as a gateway to competition. I look at them like a bridge. I don't want to stand on the bridge forever but it is a great help in getting me from a crappy place to a place I want to be.

I see them as a gateway to government takeover of private schools and the all out banning of home schooling.

[talkingpointes]

I see vouchers as a gateway to competition. I look at them like a bridge. I don't want to stand on the bridge forever but it is a great help in getting me from a crappy place to a place I want to be.

Exactly, the beginning of the end. Choice will make people think first before sending their kid to the shitties school in the state.

[Brian4Liberty]

1. Vouchers are corporatism - Public money given to private institutions is no different than corporatism its just localized. But is corporatism no less. Public private partnerships are stupid and essentially privatizes gains and socialize losses and thus people will say see "privatization" failed.
2. The government still has control - Because schools would have to get money from the government they still have to do and teach what the government wants. The government still has precedence to teach fake history and indoctrinate people to its agenda.
3. Government drives up cost - Government for whatever reason drives up the cost of whatever it touches and this evidenced by government universities and student loans.
The solution is not vouchers but getting the government completely out of education. No more public schools, licenses, government money or anything. People in a free society could afford school or other forms of education such as online school, catholic schools, charitable schools or home school could offer people access to education.

Fully agree. No vouchers. No tax credits. Purchase education, barter for education, teach yourself, or use the public schools. I would go even further and get the government out of the student loan business.

[pathtofreedom]

Fully agree. No vouchers. No tax credits. Purchase education, barter for education, teach yourself, or use the public schools. I would go even further and get the government out of the student loan business.
I don't even want public schools I want no government involvement there at all.

[pathtofreedom]

Most of these articles are discussing federal vouchers. I don't think anyone here is advocating that.
Big government corporatism is still big government corporatism doesn't change with a different level of government.

[HigherVision]

I don't even want public schools I want no government involvement there at all.

Let me know when you've achieved that. Until then I'll continue supporting less bad stuff like vouchers.

[Brian4Liberty]

I don't even want public schools I want no government involvement there at all.

What level of government? Definitely no Federal involvement. Better not to have the State involved either. Locally funded schools teaching the 3 Rs to poor kids is an acceptable compromise, IMHO.