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View Full Version : How about a Ron Paul kiosk in the malls




IHaveaDream
11-25-2007, 09:50 AM
How expensive is it to set up a kiosk in the aisle of a large mall? Just think of all the opportunities to promote Ron Paul to thousands of shoppers all day long, seven days a week, from now until Christmas. Is this a doable idea?

Ron LOL
11-25-2007, 09:51 AM
Wow. In a big mall, this could be tens of thousands of impressions per day. I like this idea.

constituent
11-25-2007, 09:51 AM
you're looking at at least 800 bucks or more a month (depending on the mall and size of the kiosk)...

also, it's probably a little too late for this x-mas.

if you b.s. w/ the security guards for awhile and get on the friendlies, they'll probably let you congregate
in, on or around the information or security kiosks.

might be just my experience, but i've found security guards at simon malls to be more apathetic than others,
i'm not sure what the deal w/ that is.

Dustancostine
11-25-2007, 10:16 AM
No you are looking at a lot more than that. For an average month in a mid sized mall you are looking at $1,500/month. For the holiday season it is going to be around $3,500. In larger malls it is going to be much more.

For instance Const., we have a cart in the Corpus Christi Padre Staples Mall. In the non holiday months it is $2,500/month, for Nov/Dec it is $5,000/month.

--Dustan

born2drv
11-25-2007, 10:17 AM
How expensive is it to set up a kiosk in the aisle of a large mall? Just think of all the opportunities to promote Ron Paul to thousands of shoppers all day long, seven days a week, from now until Christmas. Is this a doable idea?

I'd donate to this, it's a great idea.....

especially if you set up 2 or 3 flat panel TVs playing Ron Paul Videos over and over.

spivey378
11-25-2007, 10:19 AM
just hand out slim jims outside the mall and use that 1500 for materials etc

born2drv
11-25-2007, 10:21 AM
just hand out slim jims outside the mall and use that 1500 for materials etc

well a kiosk would add a lot of legitimacy.. plus it's not a huge expense in the grand scheme of things, even to get a kiosk for a month for $2,000 and to spend another $2000 in making the booth and getting materials would be well worth it. and TV's playing RP's message woudl be much more effective...

constituent
11-25-2007, 10:36 AM
No you are looking at a lot more than that. For an average month in a mid sized mall you are looking at $1,500/month. For the holiday season it is going to be around $3,500. In larger malls it is going to be much more.

For instance Const., we have a cart in the Corpus Christi Padre Staples Mall. In the non holiday months it is $2,500/month, for Nov/Dec it is $5,000/month.

--Dustan

silly me, just another proletariat (hey, would you like to help me plaster 77 from vic to corpus?).

that seems expensive for padre staples, the last several times i was there it looked like a ghost town,
what w/ the construction and everything.

if you ever need help, i've worked kiosks several christmas seasons (am awesome w/ pitch products in particular).

Visual
11-25-2007, 10:43 AM
I think it's probably more effective than a billboard. I know I read and then ignore/forget billboards. I know of every kiosk in our mall. Not to mention more information could be gathered at the kiosk.

Eric21ND
11-25-2007, 10:43 AM
Awesome idea!

definitely worty of a chip in

IHaveaDream
11-25-2007, 10:48 AM
Maybe even sell RP merchandise to help defray the cost (if that doesn't violate campaign laws).

Corydoras
11-25-2007, 10:56 AM
You have to find people to man it.

constituent
11-25-2007, 10:57 AM
You have to find people to man it.

i imagine that'd be the easy part. if i were still a young man,
the chance to stand there in a RP revolution shirt talking to all
the ladies is not something i would pass up.

Matt Collins
11-25-2007, 11:05 AM
You could better spend this money on TARGETED advertising like talk radio or advertising on TV during the nightly news, or setting up a call bank for super voters, or mailing packets to the super voters.

hillertexas
11-25-2007, 11:07 AM
I really like this idea

born2drv
11-25-2007, 11:07 AM
You could better spend this money on TARGETED advertising like talk radio or advertising on TV during the nightly news, or setting up a call bank for super voters, or mailing packets to the super voters.

If you set it up in NH, IA, NV or SC that's targeted enough, sport ;)

constituent
11-25-2007, 11:10 AM
the mall is all about saturation...

television is sublime...

radio is sublime...

...ubiquity

...

"shopping is a feeling" (http://youtube.com/watch?v=cAJ7kppuY7U)

Jordan
11-25-2007, 11:11 AM
In a town of 150,000 people, the mall charges $5,000 PER MONTH, more now that its holidays for a small kiosk. They are a terrible way to advertise.

Cindy
11-25-2007, 11:15 AM
It's a great idea if it's not to late to get one. Also a great idea to sell RP campaign gear to offset the cost. Great idea to have a flat screen running loops of RP videos as well.

Men who were dragged along with their wives to go x-mas shopping will hang out there.

billjarrett
11-25-2007, 11:18 AM
Do we qualify as nonprofit? It looks like some malls have have special things for that:

http://westfield.com/franklinpark/news/NonProfitCharityEvents.html

Mithridates
11-25-2007, 11:26 AM
It wouldn't be useful just as an advertising locale though. It could be used as a local supply area where people could keep track of which items are in large quantities and which ones need to be ordered soon. Depending on the size of the kiosk it could also be a more comfortable place for people curious about RP's stance on the issues to come in and sit down to ask questions, as opposed to on the street. Interviews with local media could also be done there.

And it would also of course get the point across that the campaign is pulling in some real money.

IHaveaDream
11-25-2007, 11:26 AM
I understand the need for targeted advertising, but advertising still leaves a lot of people wondering if it isn't just sponsored by a small organized group of kooks. Kiosks manned by average people in average environments would help to legitimize our effort and hopefully get a lot of our fellow citizens off the fence and on our team.

constituent
11-25-2007, 12:46 PM
It wouldn't be useful just as an advertising locale though. It could be used as a local supply area where people could keep track of which items are in large quantities and which ones need to be ordered soon. Depending on the size of the kiosk it could also be a more comfortable place for people curious about RP's stance on the issues to come in and sit down to ask questions, as opposed to on the street. Interviews with local media could also be done there.

And it would also of course get the point across that the campaign is pulling in some real money.

bump for a very good idea.... as seen in quotes above.

mport1
11-25-2007, 12:53 PM
I like this idea a lot.

Ron LOL
11-25-2007, 12:55 PM
bump for a very good idea.... as seen in quotes above.

I agree. Instead of having "regional offices," I think we should use mall kiosks. It's the perfect location for people who have "kinda sorta" heard about RP in the news to get more information...and of course, for people who haven't heard of him to find out what he's all about.

Very high visibility. Great idea if we can still get them for the holiday season.

IHaveaDream
11-25-2007, 12:58 PM
Would everyone agree that the malls in the early primary states would be a great place to test this proposal?

Jaykzo
11-25-2007, 12:59 PM
Excellent idea!

llamabread
11-25-2007, 01:05 PM
Would everyone agree that the malls in the early primary states would be a great place to test this proposal?

If we can get some people in the larger cities in New Hampshire, Iowa, S. Carolina, etc. to jump on board, then I think we should do it.

Mckarnin
11-25-2007, 01:10 PM
If we can get some people in the larger cities in New Hampshire, Iowa, S. Carolina, etc. to jump on board, then I think we should do it.


I used to go to college in NH. Pheasant Lane Mall in Nashua, NH would be a great location it is IN an early primary state and since it is right by the MA border people from Mass come there all the time to shop "tax free" since there is no sales tax in NH.

Eric21ND
11-25-2007, 02:20 PM
Someone get some price quotes from the best malls in your area and let's do this! This would be a great way to spread the message to people.

I especially like the idea of having a couple flat panels playing Ron Paul interviews.

micahnelson
11-25-2007, 02:25 PM
We looked into this once when we were planning the Black Friday stuff. It was about 2 grand. We considered offering free gift wrapping, playing videos, etc

walt
11-25-2007, 02:26 PM
I'd donate to this, it's a great idea.....

especially if you set up 2 or 3 flat panel TVs playing Ron Paul Videos over and over.


I think this is good idea - if highly targeted - IA, NH, SC, FL, NV ONLY

walt
11-25-2007, 02:27 PM
We looked into this once when we were planning the Black Friday stuff. It was about 2 grand. We considered offering free gift wrapping, playing videos, etc

I just envisioned everyone's holiday gifts in Ron Paul Revolution wrapping paper! :D Is someone making that btw?

Mark Rushmore
11-25-2007, 02:31 PM
I just envisioned everyone's holiday gifts in Ron Paul Revolution wrapping paper! :D Is someone making that btw?

Perhaps something with a chain pattern repeated down the length, and in between the chain design something like "Tear the ties that bind you, vote Liberty in 2008, vote Ron Paul". Somewhere in our more primitive brains, the act of tearing off the wrap would probably resonate.

Welcoming suggestions for better wording for the middle part.

foofighter20x
11-25-2007, 02:32 PM
I proposed this idea this summer. No one listened. :(

constituent
11-25-2007, 02:50 PM
whomp whomp whomp....


poor foo :(

richk
11-25-2007, 03:03 PM
I proposed this idea this summer. No one listened. :(

Don't worry, Matt is here to shoot this idea down (just like the blimp). Right, Matt?? :rolleyes:

Birdlady
11-25-2007, 03:10 PM
Another thing to consider is who will "work" it? Most malls around where I live require you (it's in the lease terms) to have someone at your kiosk at all times. You cannot close before official closing time or you are fined a few hundred dollars. This might not seem so bad at first, but think about how many "employees" you would need to run a kiosk? Remember that malls will also be open until midnight very soon because of the holiday season. That could be a full 12 hours a day and most of us are already working another job.

constituent
11-25-2007, 03:11 PM
opening too. seems like at rolling oaks in san antonio it was like five hundred bucks or something insane.

Dustancostine
11-25-2007, 03:13 PM
silly me, just another proletariat (hey, would you like to help me plaster 77 from vic to corpus?).

that seems expensive for padre staples, the last several times i was there it looked like a ghost town,
what w/ the construction and everything.

if you ever need help, i've worked kiosks several christmas seasons (am awesome w/ pitch products in particular).

Who did you work for? We have had our cart there since 2002. Its called Cell Fashions.

Exarel
11-25-2007, 03:21 PM
Awesome idea. I'd donate money and time towards this.

Dustancostine
11-25-2007, 03:23 PM
opening too. seems like at rolling oaks in san antonio it was like five hundred bucks or something insane.

Rolling Oaks is a little cheaper as there is not that much traffic there now that La Cantera opened. We had to close our location there because of lack of traffic. It will still cost around $2,000 for the holidays though.


If you talk with the leasing manager at the mall if they still have C levell locations left for December you might be able to get a weekend only deal. That way you wouldn't have to have someone there all the time. Also you could negotiate just to have the tvs playing as advertisement without people there all the time since you are not selling anything. You would just have to have someone open and close. Under such a deal I am sure you would be able to have someone there passing out slimjims whenever you want.

DJ RP
11-25-2007, 03:24 PM
Just to say I love this idea. I'm telling everybody, the absolute BEST WAY there is to get people to support ron paul is to HEAR THE MAN SPEAK. Widescreen TV's in a mall would be THE GREATEST WAY. Imagine it, just a big screen people can stand and watch, with a table beside with materials to take away once you're intrigued. It would be amazing! Think of all the great youtube videos we have that could be used. This idea would CONVERT TONS of people!!!

DealzOnWheelz
11-25-2007, 03:30 PM
You could also do voter registrations at the kiosk. If that is allowed. Or at least put people on a mailing list.

And you can have a computer there setup so people can donate to the campaign right there in the mall

"Buy Freedom for Christmas Donate to Ron Paul"

By the way I live near King of Prusia mall in PA it's only the 2nd or 3rd largest mall in the country behind Mall of America

Dustancostine
11-25-2007, 03:33 PM
Also if we need cheap T.V's the hotel that I am staying at is selling 25 in TV's for $25. If someone wants to do this I will ship them a couple.

Also I am talking to a leasing manager tomorrow about opening some new locations. She is also in charge of the mall in Ames, IA. I probably could get a deal on it.

Zarxrax
11-25-2007, 03:36 PM
This is a GREAT idea. You can help recoup costs by selling Ron Paul merchandise. This is a great way to create EXPONENTIAL growth. You sell people t-shirts and yard signs and bumper stickers and stuff, and that helps to convert even MORE people who see those things!

Many casual supporters of Ron Paul might not want to go to a meetup group or order merchandise online. Something like this can get it out there!

Corydoras
11-25-2007, 03:46 PM
This idea really is going to fall down on the staffing thing. Money is not going to be the problem.

At my local mall, nobody stops at the kiosks that show anything that requires time to understand or try out, like electric candles that change color, or super-duper little stereos from an obscure brand. They only stop at the kiosks that sell items that are easy to understand, grab and go.

But staffing is going to be the issue.

micahnelson
11-25-2007, 03:49 PM
They only stop at the kiosks that sell items that are easy to understand, grab and go.


Which is why we could offer free gift wrapping. They have to stand at the booths for a few minutes and they would certainly watch a video that was playing if they were waiting.

born2drv
11-25-2007, 05:09 PM
Which is why we could offer free gift wrapping. They have to stand at the booths for a few minutes and they would certainly watch a video that was playing if they were waiting.

Or we could pass out short quizes that if they watch the movie clip (like 5 mins) and answer the questions correctly they get a free gift.... like maybe a small box of chocolates for a stocking stuffer.

IHaveaDream
11-25-2007, 05:38 PM
Just imagine if we had at least one military veteran working each location. That might even draw a local reporter or two.

Dustancostine
11-25-2007, 11:48 PM
Bump.

doronster195
11-26-2007, 12:10 AM
bump

coboman
11-26-2007, 12:30 AM
A mall kiosk is one of the best ways to promote an unknown product (another one is the infomercial).
I have had mall kiosks and is a great opportunity to convince people one on one. Also very effective to hand out fliers.

I don't think that having people in the kiosk would be that difficult, watching the passion of the Ron Paul supporters, you could ask for volunteers on the spot.

This is a great idea, and it should be implemented as soon as possible in the primary states.

Santana28
11-26-2007, 12:31 AM
you're looking at at least 800 bucks or more a month (depending on the mall and size of the kiosk)...

also, it's probably a little too late for this x-mas.

if you b.s. w/ the security guards for awhile and get on the friendlies, they'll probably let you congregate
in, on or around the information or security kiosks.

might be just my experience, but i've found security guards at simon malls to be more apathetic than others,
i'm not sure what the deal w/ that is.

LOL... as a Simon mall security guard, i find that statement humorous :) Actually, Simon contracts out - I work for IPC International currently. Before that, i worked with Valor Security.

I would have to agree that right now the cost would far outweigh the benefits. I know our mall jacks up the prices of kiosks in the thousands during the holiday season... you would probably do much more by contacting mall management, and asking permission to hand out political materials and talk to people. We just recieved a memo recently, which i believe went out to all Simon malls, that stressed how labor demonstrations (picketing) and "political speech" are protected and to be allowed. How that will be interpreted at each individual mall is unknown - but it can't hurt to go in and talk to someone about it. As long as you stress that you won't harrass, disrupt, or leaflet the entire area you might possibly get permission.

Now as far as security goes... our mall jumps all over anyone caught passing out literature to people or flyering cars immediately. If you don't stop and leave, you get arrested for trespassing. Including political literature. But standing in areas with literature that has been pre-approved by mall management wouldn't be an issue.

Also, you might want to talk to individual kiosk owners and stores and ask them if they would be willing to put a stack of slimjims or whatnot on their kiosks. Most of them at my mall at least are arab/pakistani immigrants and very sympathetic towards Ron Paul as it is.

Santana28
11-26-2007, 12:33 AM
You could also do voter registrations at the kiosk. If that is allowed. Or at least put people on a mailing list.

And you can have a computer there setup so people can donate to the campaign right there in the mall

"Buy Freedom for Christmas Donate to Ron Paul"

By the way I live near King of Prusia mall in PA it's only the 2nd or 3rd largest mall in the country behind Mall of America

perhaps you could contact the local GOP and see if they would be interested in funding a voter registration booth that you would volunteer to man. They might make you keep stacks of info on all of the other Republican candidates, but i'm sure they would pale in comparison with your massive Ron Paul display ;)

But that might be a way to get funding or easier approval from the mall with possibly discounted rates.

Eric21ND
11-26-2007, 12:35 AM
I think it would be worth it simply because you could have two different flat panel tv's set up to play on opposite sides of the display. Have two different DVDs going 24/7. Hearing Ron Paul speak is what gets people to notice him. They can tell he is genuine and honest.

I'd definitely pitch in for this!

What are the most popular malls in Iowa/NH/South Carolina??

coboman
11-26-2007, 03:18 AM
Go. You can still try to get kiosks for the holyday season.

If not, January is a great month to rent kiosks, because they are much cheaper.

Eric21ND
11-26-2007, 03:56 AM
Both December and January would be ideal to do this.

Birdlady
11-26-2007, 04:08 AM
No one seemed to be addressing who would work the kiosk, so here is another post about it.

Let's be very honest. Working in retail during the holidays is HELL. Pure HELL. It doesn't matter if you are trying to sell Ron Paul, diamond earrings, or women's clothes. It will be the same atmosphere and annoying "customers".

This all sounds wonderful and great, but do you want to man this on Christmas Eve or the day after Christmas? Or insert another day that is important to other religions.

To those that say it would be easy to find RP supporters to man it, then that is great ONLY when I see it. Everyone is getting ready for the holiday season and I predict a lot of the support wouldn't work when it got close to Christmas. Most people I know work more during this season to make more money for Christmas, so that means less free time.

Malls are open from at least 8am-midnight towards Christmas. You would need at least 2 people a day for a 17 hour span. That would still be a long 8.5 hours on top of whatever job this Ron Paul supporter is working for money.

The mall nearby that has requirements when you open and close is a Simon's Mall. Unless you follow their rules you get fined big time for each day you don't show up or close early! They are very strict on this too from what I have heard especially on the kiosks.

If we want to promote this idea and spread it further, let's figure out how someone could get this kiosk manned through out the entire Christmas/Holiday season.

Mithridates
11-26-2007, 06:15 AM
No one seemed to be addressing who would work the kiosk, so here is another post about it.

Let's be very honest. Working in retail during the holidays is HELL. Pure HELL. It doesn't matter if you are trying to sell Ron Paul, diamond earrings, or women's clothes. It will be the same atmosphere and annoying "customers".

This all sounds wonderful and great, but do you want to man this on Christmas Eve or the day after Christmas? Or insert another day that is important to other religions.

To those that say it would be easy to find RP supporters to man it, then that is great ONLY when I see it. Everyone is getting ready for the holiday season and I predict a lot of the support wouldn't work when it got close to Christmas. Most people I know work more during this season to make more money for Christmas, so that means less free time.

Malls are open from at least 8am-midnight towards Christmas. You would need at least 2 people a day for a 17 hour span. That would still be a long 8.5 hours on top of whatever job this Ron Paul supporter is working for money.

The mall nearby that has requirements when you open and close is a Simon's Mall. Unless you follow their rules you get fined big time for each day you don't show up or close early! They are very strict on this too from what I have heard especially on the kiosks.

If we want to promote this idea and spread it further, let's figure out how someone could get this kiosk manned through out the entire Christmas/Holiday season.

From what I can tell there would be no need to be worried about that. I've never been to the US but what with the stories of getting up at 5 to make hot chocolate and tell people about RP I doubt there would be a problem with manning a warm mall kiosk.

tfelice
11-26-2007, 06:40 AM
72% of the population that is eligible to vote is registered. With the exception of NH (which has an unusally large turnout for the primaries) on average only 6% of registered voters will show up on primary day. On average, half of those will vote in the GOP primary. If my math is correct, out of every 10,000 people that pass by the kiosk, only 216 of them are potential "customers".

This seems like an idea that would have been much better off doing many months ago, rather than now when the early primaries are right around the corner, and Paul's poll numbers are nowhere near a level where the supporters can start feeling comfortable.

IMO, targeted advertising to potential GOP primary voters is the most effective way to go.

Birdlady
11-26-2007, 06:45 AM
From what I can tell there would be no need to be worried about that. I've never been to the US but what with the stories of getting up at 5 to make hot chocolate and tell people about RP I doubt there would be a problem with manning a warm mall kiosk.

I see this happening for a week and then once these people are working 8 hours at their other job and then 8 hours at the RP booth, it will start to dwindle.

I think this is a decent idea. We just need to think this out before getting ahead of ourselves.

Libertarian
11-26-2007, 06:54 AM
No you are looking at a lot more than that. For an average month in a mid sized mall you are looking at $1,500/month. For the holiday season it is going to be around $3,500. In larger malls it is going to be much more.

For instance Const., we have a cart in the Corpus Christi Padre Staples Mall. In the non holiday months it is $2,500/month, for Nov/Dec it is $5,000/month.

--Dustan

I am by no means rich, but I think that amount is very doable. Hundreds of people going by the Kiosk every hour, 7 days a week during Christmas shopping season. It would MORE than pay for itself in both votes and donations to RP.

constituent
11-26-2007, 07:38 AM
i'm centrally located in texas, so pretty much if one gets opened up in houston, austin, san antonio or corpus i can be there once a week atleast, consistently.

IHaveaDream
11-26-2007, 07:59 AM
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
--Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

tfelice
11-26-2007, 09:32 AM
"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.” - William Arthur Ward

Birdlady
11-26-2007, 09:54 AM
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
--Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Wow. I didn't realize that a legitimate question suddenly becomes a bad thing.

Are you able to man a kiosk on top of your other job and family responsibilities? Some of us aren't!

I see the opportunity in this. I think it could be a decent idea, but we need to be REALISTIC. Kiosks can be $5,000-$10,000 in December. In addition we need 20-30 people to basically give up their other job and life responsibilities to man it. If there are people out there able and willing to do it then that's great!

It's not as simple as just having 10 people say they will do it. You will literally need to have a work schedule and people must come in when they are scheduled and have back up people who can come in when someone gets sick or has an emergency.

I would prefer we just ask permission to hand stuff out at the mall rather than get a kiosk. There are lots of rules in lease terms you have to follow. It's easier to get a group of 20 people to roam the mall handing stuff out to people rather than coordinating individuals to man a kiosk every day until after New Years.

This is my last post about this.

tfelice
11-26-2007, 10:06 AM
Wow. I didn't realize that a legitimate question suddenly becomes a bad thing.

Are you able to man a kiosk on top of your other job and family responsibilities? Some of us aren't!

I see the opportunity in this. I think it could be a decent idea, but we need to be REALISTIC. Kiosks can be $5,000-$10,000 in December. In addition we need 20-30 people to basically give up their other job and life responsibilities to man it. If there are people out there able and willing to do it then that's great!

It's not as simple as just having 10 people say they will do it. You will literally need to have a work schedule and people must come in when they are scheduled and have back up people who can come in when someone gets sick or has an emergency.

I would prefer we just ask permission to hand stuff out at the mall rather than get a kiosk. There are lots of rules in lease terms you have to follow. It's easier to get a group of 20 people to roam the mall handing stuff out to people rather than coordinating individuals to man a kiosk every day until after New Years.

This is my last post about this.


I would imagine that you would also need to carry a liability policy as well. One of our local malls is open between 12-15 hours per day during the month of December. That's 90+ hours per week that the kiosk would need to be manned. All this for a target audience of roughly 3% of adult shoppers. Also, the fact that most people are busy shopping for the holidays and will likely pass the kiosk by. This time of year malls are packed with shoppers and filled with long lines. People aren't strolling casually as they are during the rest of the year. Primarily they are there to make their purchases and get out as quickly as possible.

This is Marketing 101 stuff here - high cost in dollars and manpower for very little results. I wouldn't waste my time or money on it, when there are so many more practical and targeted promotional options available.

Santana28
11-26-2007, 12:10 PM
This is Marketing 101 stuff here - high cost in dollars and manpower for very little results. I wouldn't waste my time or money on it, when there are so many more practical and targeted promotional options available.

Exactly. That $5000 a month could be spent on campaign materials, and you could find someplace free in the area (or even get mall approval) to stand and hand them out on your own. Malls DO fine kiosks for people being late, closing early, being unmanned, eating at the kiosks, not being in proper uniform, a whole variety of little things that add up. The rent during the holidays is RIDICULOUS.

Think of a better way to use those funds at the mall - where there's a will, there's a way (up to, and including, bribing all of the security guards to let you flyer all the cars...j/k :)

tfelice
11-26-2007, 12:23 PM
Agreed Santana

Between this, the blimp, and some of the other ideas I have seen talked about I believe people are operating as though this was late summer instead of late fall.

IA is in 38 days. NH is in 43 days. SC is in 54 days. The campaign & the grassroots needs to be focusing on precisely targeted promotion reaching GOP primary voters, Independent primary voters (in open states), and the college campuses for new voter registrations.

Spending thousands per month on a kiosk that at best reaches 3% of the people, or 300K on a blimp to fly around in the middle of winter is foolish. The time for blanket name recognition was 3 months ago, not today. A very small percentage of registered voters are going to show up at the polls. Everything possible to reach out to those people is what is needed in order to win. Otherwise, Paul will wind up with single digits in the early primaries and allow the media to confirm their assertation that the Paul campaign is on the fringe of society. At that point it's time to peel the bumper stickers off of the truck.

Santana28
11-26-2007, 12:46 PM
the blimp is the worst ideal i have ever heard of... i ignored it at first because i couldn't believe it was serious.

we are never going to get 100% name recognition - i'm sure there are still many places where people have never even heard the name Guiliani enough to know who he is. thats just the way it is. we need to target people who can maximize our valuable time and effort - and multiply the effect.

JMHO

tfelice
11-26-2007, 03:03 PM
Truth is, we don't need 100% name recognition with the general public to win the primaries. We need 100% name recognition with that very small percentage of the general public who actually votes in the GOP primaries. I haven't bothered to break out the costs of some of these follies, but I imagine they are in the hundreds of dollars per potential voter (if not more). Essentially, the same effect can be achieved with a 41 cent stamp, or a phone call, or a knock on the door.

IHaveaDream
11-26-2007, 05:41 PM
I respect everyone's feedback on this idea. The cost/benefit rebuttals are fair charges and deserve to be heard. However, I do not think a political campaign can be approached exactly like a business investment. I also don't think that this campaign can be compared to any traditional campaign of the past.

Our job is to enhance Ron Paul's visibility and advance his message. Normally, that would be done by the party, but there is nothing "normal" about this candidate or this campaign. Ron Paul's party does not want his visibility enhanced. Ron Paul's party does not want his message advanced. Ron Paul's party is trying to censor one of thier own presidential candidates because Ron Paul is daring to speak the truth. He is defying convention. He is daring to be different. He is using the "foolish things" to "confound the wise."

Presidential candidates typically do not have a kiosk in the mall. They typically do not have a blimp flying over the countryside. They typically do not have a full page ad in the USA Today. They typically do not receive 4.3 million dollars from 30,000citizens in a 24 hour period. There is nothing conventional about this grassroots effort and that is exactly what is propelling Dr. Paul from obscurity to celebrity status.

We are also using "the foolish things" to "confound the wise." We have effectively created a third party medium by using internet blogs to circumvent the MSM and talk radio. We've beat the campaign finance restrictions with kooky theme-based "money bombs". And our candidate is getting millions of dollars worth of advertisement through some of the most creative and unorthodox measures imaginable.

The most memorable achievements in marketing probably had a lot more to do with rolling the dice than hedging bets.

Keep up the good work!

DrNoZone
11-26-2007, 05:52 PM
I think this is actually a REALLY good idea.

madcat033
11-26-2007, 07:40 PM
So, if these kiosks cost $5,000 a month, and the blimp costs $350,000 a month, you're telling me we can get kiosks in SEVENTY different malls for the price of the blimp?

Why the hell wouldn't we do that instead? Not only would 70 mall kiosks probably get more impressions than the blimp, but it's down on the ground and they can actually look into Ron Paul further and learn more about him on the spot.

This sounds like a WAY better use of money.

Ron LOL
11-26-2007, 07:59 PM
As long as we're railing on the blimp, let me add: the blimp is a stupid idea.

Especially as compared to these kiosks.

weatherbill
11-26-2007, 08:30 PM
going mail box to mail box with flyers would be more effective, but it's all good

tfelice
11-27-2007, 06:38 AM
Not only would 70 mall kiosks probably get more impressions than the blimp, but it's down on the ground and they can actually look into Ron Paul further and learn more about him on the spot.

You are forgetting the fact that on average 98% of the people over the age of 18 that pass by the kiosk will not vote in the GOP primaries.

Eric21ND
11-27-2007, 07:19 AM
You are forgetting the fact that on average 98% of the people over the age of 18 that pass by the kiosk will not vote in the GOP primaries.

As do 98% of people that see a blimp. The mall idea is on the ground and you do two important things. 1. enhance name recognition and visibility. 2. disseminate information about Ron Paul

In a busy mall all through the holidays I bet a couple kiosks in a few malls would get more impressions than a blimp for a fraction of the cost. Of course for a truly fair comparison you would have to get 80+ kiosks because thats what could be bought for the price of a 1 month blimp.

tfelice
11-27-2007, 04:35 PM
As do 98% of people that see a blimp. The mall idea is on the ground and you do two important things. 1. enhance name recognition and visibility. 2. disseminate information about Ron Paul

In a busy mall all through the holidays I bet a couple kiosks in a few malls would get more impressions than a blimp for a fraction of the cost. Of course for a truly fair comparison you would have to get 80+ kiosks because thats what could be bought for the price of a 1 month blimp.


Believe me I am not defending the blimp idea. I think that is one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard. A complete and utter waste of time and money.

What I am saying is that regardless of what type of marketing is done now, it needs to be precisely targeted. Name recognition and information means nothing if it's going to people that are not going to vote in the primaries. Remember, on average, less than 2% of the voting age population will vote in the GOP primaries.

If grassroots is going to spend money on promotion they need to be doing it by mailers to GOP voting lists, ads on talk radio & christian radio & tv. Those channels will reach a higher percentage of GOP primary voters by far. I saw a stat that says 80+% of conservative talk radio listeners vote. So do you spend money & time trying to find a needle in a haystack at the mall or do you advertise in a medium that will have an 80% reach?

coboman
11-28-2007, 02:31 AM
The difference between this idea and the blimp, is the commitment of the supporters.
The blimp, even if it is silly, is happening.

This kiosk idea is SUPERB, but if nobody makes it its own, places a nice site with pledges, and makes it happen, then it won't work.

thehittgirl
11-28-2007, 03:43 AM
I like the Kiosk idea. If I had the money, I would definitely go for it!

Many still don't know the name around here, so it would be great. The malls around here are always busy.

tfelice
11-28-2007, 08:02 AM
I like the Kiosk idea. If I had the money, I would definitely go for it!

Many still don't know the name around here, so it would be great. The malls around here are always busy.

thehittgirl,

I have seen a lot of your posts, so I know you are an intelligent person.

Tell me then why you would invest time & money on a kiosk when such a miniscule percentage of people over the age of 18 that pass by it are actually going to vote in the GOP primaries?

Wouldn't it be far more prudent to use the time & money to send mailers out to voter lists? Or spend the money advertising on a Christian radio station, or on conservative talk radio. In any of those cases you are going to have a far greater reach.

brumans
11-28-2007, 08:05 AM
Ron Paul's main support is from 18-29 year olds.
They are the ones that are going to be make or break for the campaign. If they come out and vote, he could definitely win.

tfelice
11-28-2007, 08:11 AM
Ron Paul's main support is from 18-29 year olds.
They are the ones that are going to be make or break for the campaign. If they come out and vote, he could definitely win.

That's a huge "if". We would essentially have to be hoping for something that has rarely, if ever, occured before. Turnout amongst 18-24 year olds is usually 25% lower than all eligible voters. The "get out the vote" campaign amongst that age group would need to be massive in order to make up the gap.

brumans
11-28-2007, 08:15 AM
That's a huge "if". We would essentially have to be hoping for something that has rarely, if ever, occured before. Turnout amongst 18-24 year olds is usually 25% lower than all eligible voters. The "get out the vote" campaign amongst that age group would need to be massive in order to make up the gap.

Just tell them that he will legalize marijuana and they will come :D

camnc79
11-28-2007, 09:11 AM
Just want to address a few points.

I work in the second busiest mall in New Hampshire (Manchester). Salem's Rockingham Mall has higher volume, followed by Pheasant Lane.

I am not even sure that there is still time to get a kiosk for December. I have not seen any open space in the Mall of New Hampshire.

However, if there is time, it's not a bad idea. I am dumbfounded on the assertion that "98% of people over 18 are not going to be voting in the Republican primaries." I never knew there was such a demographic mismatch in malls versus other shopping venues during the holidays or for that matter during any time of the year. Especially now I see a more diverse client base in the mall than ever before.

An additional question may be to ask if the mall restricts political kiosks? In 2004 when I was managing a congressional campaign, the local mall would not allow political organizations to rent kiosk space. Something to consider...

Beyond that, I am supportive of the idea. The malls do have extended hours, but from what I can ascertain there are no draconian rules other than open on time, stay at your kiosk, and close when the mall closes.

The beauty of the grassroots is that if I disagree with this project, I will find another to support. I am highly encouraging of targeting voters at this point. As such, I'll donate to a cause that does just that. But I'm also inclined to support a mall kiosk project - because it thinks outside the box of conventional politics. We will reach people we would have perhaps not previously reached...and given Election day voter registration in New Hampshire, maybe we CAN use these resources and reach out to voters who were disenfranchised with the process.

On an aside, people in the mall often have one thing in common. They complain about the economy, spending, and so on....particularly after a big purchase...(illogical as it may sound to some)..what better group to reach? Want more holiday spending cash? Ron Paul wants to phase out the IRS....and so on.

Keep up the great ideas, everyone. Support what you support, but never dismiss something that could in fact be an idea that has met its time.

Cameron
Bedford, NH

Santana28
11-28-2007, 01:46 PM
the MAIN thing you have to think about when asking if this is a good idea is "Can i accomplish the same goals in the same place for less money" - The answer is YES. Odds are you'll be able to make your mark on the mall in a way that doesn't cost you THOUSANDS of dollars a month not to mention manpower, time lost, fines, insurance, etc. You just need to start thinking creatively. There ARE ways.

tfelice
11-28-2007, 02:12 PM
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