How is The Us a Free Country At All?

[pathtofreedom]

Freedom and Liberty in this country are simply brand names. I don't see how the US at this point is any freer than the Soviet union or any other totalitarian regime save for the standard of living. Even the standard of living is declining and poverty is on the rise.
Economically - the government collectively makes up most economic activity. Government spending makes up huge amounts of GDP and the government controls virtually every industry through ownership or regulations. Government regulations are numerous and governments attend shareholder meetings. Government stock ownership makes up 70% of stock in publicly traded corporations. Government spending excluding stock makes up huge economic activity and government subsidies makes up large amounts of corporate profits. It is safe to say that the US is a command economy. There is no price system since it constantly fucked with. Property rights are non existent the government tells you what can be built upon your land, makes you get approval to build on your land, makes you pay rent on it, and the government can seize your house at will. You have to get a license to do virtually anything. Taxes are levied on virtually everything. Government owns most transportation so it tells you where you can go. Government dictates what cities should like or how they are laid out
Socially - The government controls the media both directly and indirectly and decides what you see and hear. Government education is nothing more than indoctrination. The government also decides what can go in your body and will arrest for having the wrong substance.
Legally - The government will often break its own laws. Courts treat you as a guilty till proven innocent. The government can break into your house without warrant. The constitution seems to have no coherent meaning at all. You can be sent to prison without trial. Wars are started for their own sake.
In this country you have the freedom to do what you are told. We are given moderately large and better cages so we think we are free. In response to the Statist argument "If you don't like it you can move" I think I will. There has to be something out there that is better.

[The Gold Standard]

I'm not going to read the wall of text, but to answer your question, it isn't.

[Michigan11]

You just have to believe strong enough and try not to think too much and then occupy your mind with other stuff and things and then sometimes it feels kind of free if your looking out for others that may be looking at what your doing

[Original_Intent]

The U.S. is the freest country in the world, you Commie! If you had even posted something like that in China or anywhere other than the U.S. you would be dragged out of your house and shot. Wow! The ingratitude for the wonderful freedoms that we are killing the rest of the world to protect for your ungrateful butt!

/sarc

[RickyJ]

I'm not going to read the wall of text, but to answer your question, it isn't.

You should read it, a very good post.

[TheTexan]

Indeed. This is a country of happy, fed slaves. And they wouldn't have it any other way.

[Matt Collins]

Reminds me of this song;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4smim2MNvF8

[DamianTV]

The Pundits will claim the Freedom you have is the Freedom to choose between Coke or Pepsi.

[APAT Warrior]

I too have spoken on this issue. Bottom line, the real liberty and freedom we used to have is getting further away from us and it's up to us to get it back. I'll leave it at that.

[fisharmor]

There is still technically freedom of religion. One may choose from a variety of religions, and not only is it tolerated, but those who actively speak out against rival religions are generally shunned.

But of course there IS an official religion in the US, and it's called statism. If you want to test the limits of religious freedom here, remain seated during the national anthem, or show open scorn for a state funeral. You'll probably stay out of jail (for now), but remember how close we have been in recent years to doing time for flag burning.....

[tod evans]

The "religion" of self-medication is both persecuted and prosecuted.

So much so that I'm pretty sure our country has surpassed the atrocities that precluded WW-2.

[otherone]

People don't want Freedom. They want Safety. We can't be Free AND Safe. The State is more than happy to promise us Safety. The State has convinced us that it's purpose is to Protect us. Protection is safety. We are not Free if we are Safe.

[Dr.3D]

The Pundits will claim the Freedom you have is the Freedom to choose between Coke or Pepsi.
Just don't expect to decide what size it will be.

[tod evans]

People don't want Freedom. They want Safety. We can't be Free AND Safe. The State is more than happy to promise us Safety. The State has convinced us that it's purpose is to Protect us. Protection is safety. We are not Free if we are Safe.

Isn't that the truth!

Here's (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?412011-What-was-the-alternative-to-what-the-police-did-in-Boston) a thread with some dude promoting exactly that viewpoint.

400+ posts in a day..:confused:

[Mani]

Isn't that the truth!

Here's (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?412011-What-was-the-alternative-to-what-the-police-did-in-Boston) a thread with some dude promoting exactly that viewpoint.

400+ posts in a day..:confused:


Don't be confused comrade...we will feed you, we will educate you, we will provide you shelter, and protect you. We can provide for you and as you get older we are here for you. You can have a much more peaceful life if you do things our way. All the rest of the people are so happy with this, it's only a few of you who are confused....let me take you somewhere where you can understand much better. Just step onto the train comrade...

[Aeroneous]

We aren't where we should be, but we are miles ahead of some other countries. The right to bear arms, for example, is not found everywhere. I've been in several countries around the world, and as much as I love experiencing other cultures I wouldn't want to live in any of them.

[BAllen]

Isn't that the truth!

Here's (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?412011-What-was-the-alternative-to-what-the-police-did-in-Boston) a thread with some dude promoting exactly that viewpoint.

400+ posts in a day..:confused:

Social policies, as usual. They provide the crises (911, Boston bombing), and the solution more government. And the media spin on it, as well. Con artists, they are. And the people are the marks.

[erowe1]

Government stock ownership makes up 70% of stock in publicly traded corporations.

Source?

[Keith and stuff]

The US isn't a free country the way most people might think of it. However the people of the states, via their state government, have a lot of freedom. This is especially true in select communities in AK and NH where they are absent personal income tax, general sales tax and property taxes on a state or local level. So while all of the US isn't free, it is very likely the the freest places in the 1st world are in the US.

[heavenlyboy34]

Freedom and Liberty in this country are simply brand names. I don't see how the US at this point is any freer than the Soviet union or any other totalitarian regime save for the standard of living. Even the standard of living is declining and poverty is on the rise.
Economically - the government collectively makes up most economic activity. Government spending makes up huge amounts of GDP and the government controls virtually every industry through ownership or regulations. Government regulations are numerous and governments attend shareholder meetings. Government stock ownership makes up 70% of stock in publicly traded corporations. Government spending excluding stock makes up huge economic activity and government subsidies makes up large amounts of corporate profits. It is safe to say that the US is a command economy. There is no price system since it constantly fucked with. Property rights are non existent the government tells you what can be built upon your land, makes you get approval to build on your land, makes you pay rent on it, and the government can seize your house at will. You have to get a license to do virtually anything. Taxes are levied on virtually everything. Government owns most transportation so it tells you where you can go. Government dictates what cities should like or how they are laid out
Socially - The government controls the media both directly and indirectly and decides what you see and hear. Government education is nothing more than indoctrination. The government also decides what can go in your body and will arrest for having the wrong substance.
Legally - The government will often break its own laws. Courts treat you as a guilty till proven innocent. The government can break into your house without warrant. The constitution seems to have no coherent meaning at all. You can be sent to prison without trial. Wars are started for their own sake.
In this country you have the freedom to do what you are told. We are given moderately large and better cages so we think we are free. In response to the Statist argument "If you don't like it you can move" I think I will. There has to be something out there that is better.
Yup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ

[Brian4Liberty]

If you had even posted something like that in China or anywhere other than the U.S. you would be dragged out of your house and shot.

/sarc

I know that was sarcasm, but most Chinese don't criticize their government or their leaders. They just don't do it.

[erowe1]

I know that was sarcasm, but most Chinese don't criticize their government or their leaders. They just don't do it.

It's not just China (although it's certainly worse in China). Even in a lot of European countries there are laws regulating what you can say in criticizing the government. I had a German teacher from Austria who talked about how surprising it was to her what kinds of things Americans could get away with saying.

[jclay2]

It's not just China (although it's certainly worse in China). Even in a lot of European countries there are laws regulating what you can say in criticizing the government. I had a German teacher from Austria who talked about how surprising it was to her what kinds of things Americans could get away with saying.

For now...

[erowe1]

For now...

True. And that was probably 7 years ago or so.

[thoughtomator]

There is still technically freedom of religion. One may choose from a variety of religions, and not only is it tolerated, but those who actively speak out against rival religions are generally shunned.

But of course there IS an official religion in the US, and it's called statism. If you want to test the limits of religious freedom here, remain seated during the national anthem, or show open scorn for a state funeral. You'll probably stay out of jail (for now), but remember how close we have been in recent years to doing time for flag burning.....

There are still "technically" more freedoms than that, but in reality "freedom of religion" was mortally wounded with the deal that made Utah a state, and the plug was pulled on it at Waco as we witnessed a peaceful-but-not-government-approved religious group mass murdered at the hands of the US Army.

[pathtofreedom]

Source?
Watch Corporation Nation or go to http://cafr1.com
Look up the topic of CAFR's. Government has huge amounts of wealth in "private corporations".

[erowe1]

Watch Corporation Nation or go to http://cafr1.com
Look up the topic of CAFR's. Government has huge amounts of wealth in "private corporations".

OK. Maybe I'll get around to that when I'm so inclined.

But do you actually have any evidence you could point to to support the specific claim I asked about? Or was that just a regurgitation of something you heard someone else say?

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

It's not just China (although it's certainly worse in China). Even in a lot of European countries there are laws regulating what you can say in criticizing the government. I had a German teacher from Austria who talked about how surprising it was to her what kinds of things Americans could get away with saying.

The freedom to complain is allowed because taking away the freedom to complain might wake people up to how few freedoms they really have. The freedom to complain leads to political activism where everyone goes out in the streets holding signs and chanting stupid slogans before they go home and watch the "news" to see if they are on it. The next morning they go on with their pathetic lives and are less likely to affect positive change because they think they are already doing something.

The freedom to complain is no freedom at all when nobody knows what real freedom is.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm not going to read the wall of text, but to answer your question, it isn't.

It's a good read:

Freedom and Liberty in this country are simply brand names. I don't see how the US at this point is any freer than the Soviet union or any other totalitarian regime save for the standard of living.

Even the standard of living is declining and poverty is on the rise.

Economically - the government collectively makes up most economic activity. Government spending makes up huge amounts of GDP and the government controls virtually every industry through ownership or regulations. Government regulations are numerous and governments attend shareholder meetings. Government stock ownership makes up 70% of stock in publicly traded corporations. Government spending excluding stock makes up huge economic activity and government subsidies makes up large amounts of corporate profits. It is safe to say that the US is a command economy. There is no price system since it constantly fucked with.

Property rights are non existent the government tells you what can be built upon your land, makes you get approval to build on your land, makes you pay rent on it, and the government can seize your house at will. You have to get a license to do virtually anything. Taxes are levied on virtually everything. Government owns most transportation so it tells you where you can go. Government dictates what cities should like or how they are laid out

Socially - The government controls the media both directly and indirectly and decides what you see and hear. Government education is nothing more than indoctrination. The government also decides what can go in your body and will arrest for having the wrong substance.

Legally - The government will often break its own laws. Courts treat you as a guilty till proven innocent. The government can break into your house without warrant. The constitution seems to have no coherent meaning at all. You can be sent to prison without trial. Wars are started for their own sake.

In this country you have the freedom to do what you are told. We are given moderately large and better cages so we think we are free. In response to the Statist argument "If you don't like it you can move" I think I will. There has to be something out there that is better

[Aratus]

AF has been in rarified form all week
and has even bumped two old threads
to make a point about curfews + people.
the events of the past week are unique
we all are gettin' back to normal here.

[Anti Federalist]

No, not a free country anymore.

[pathtofreedom]

So much for well fed slaves even that aspect is disappearing.